S02.E15: The Car

[Mrs. DuRona]

32 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

But no, he was so perfect he could predict every twist.

To be fair, my husband does the same thing, and it is SUUUUPER annoying, haha.  

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I thought Rebecca's pledge to spend the rest of her days making sure Kate didn't feel as though Jack's death was her fault was interesting. Clearly that didn't work out so well. 

It's hard for me to relate teen Kate to adult Kate, any physical resemblance notwithstanding. She seems pretty strong as a teen, and incredibly weak as an adult. And her speech about Toby "saving" her still bugs.  I would have preferred to see her on a journey to save herself.

I think teen Kate was a strong girl, and on a path to being a strong woman - but Jack's death knocked the wind out of her and she never (yet) recovered. I think, often times, when there's something so traumatic in life, we can go one way or the other. Kate went the other.

[kilda]

54 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

I hope he met up with Clooney somewhere, and we get an episode through their eyes.

I can't wait for the heartwarming flashbacks of Louie's puppyhood.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When my dad died, my sister asked my mom if she could wear his watch. The next day, my mom mentioned it to me and asked if it was okay with me to let my sister keep it. I was totally fine with it but I can understand why Kevin just saw that Randall had their dad’s watch and reacted.  When there is more than one kid in the family, it seems inevitable that there may be treasured items that more than one person will want. My sister also wanted my dad’s wedding ring. I was like well, hold on there, because our other sister didn’t put up a fight about the watch and so I thought she should get dibs on the ring - but only if my mom didn’t want to keep it. I know it’s a little different because my sisters and I were older than the Big Three when our dad died, but there is always the potential for sibling rivalry to rear its head when it comes to dividing up a parent’s stuff. 

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I am certainly not familiar with funeral customs nationwide, but it was odd to me that there was a service at the cemetery when Jack's ashes were not being interred there. 

I also found this odd. I guess it's because you can shoot prettier pictures in sunny cemeteries than in funeral home chapels.

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

So, you only have to go to school during finals week?  Is that what you're saying?  No.  I don't think that's how it works.  You can't cut school any day you want just because you don't happen to have any tests in your classes that day. If it were finals week and she didn't have any tests, then she simply would have asked permission to go to the record store and her parents would have said she could.  She was skipping.

We did not have to be on campus during finals week if we did not have an exam scheduled.  We only had to be on campus for the exam and then we could go home.  So, for example, if a student had a 1:30 PM exam on, say, Monday, but no morning exam, then that kid did not have to be on campus in the morning.  If the student did not have any exams the next day, then on Tuesday, the student could stay home. That's how it worked at my school.  

 

ETA:  High school for me was in the 90s.  I graduated in '98.

Edited February 7, 2018 by PRgal

[LADreamr]

23 minutes ago, Katy M said:

59 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

I hope he met up with Clooney somewhere, and we get an episode through their eyes.

No matter what happened to Louie, I can guarantee he's dead by now

Let me dream! :)

[shoovenbooty]

I actually relate to Kevin's feelings about Randall taking the watch. When my dad died, my mom offered everyone a chance to have something of his as a memento. If we wanted more than one thing, or if more than one person wanted the same thing, it was discussed and worked out at that time. Months later I went to my sister's house and saw several of my dad's things that I would have liked to have, but no one ever asked me. I found out that after everyone had left to go home after the funeral, my sister helped herself to more of my dad's things. Sure, she asked my mom if she could have them, but it made me  angry that my sister would have taken things of my dad's just because she felt she deserved them more than me or our other siblings, and did it behind our backs. Some of the items were things that I had given my dad, or one-of-a-kind photographs.

 Anyway, those are the feelings that I got as I watched the show and saw Kevin get angry about the watch. Randall could have asked Kevin and Kate how they felt about him keeping the watch, instead of just helping himself to it (with Rebecca's permission).  I thought Kevin probably felt, "Why does Randall think he deserves the watch more than we do? And why did he take it behind our backs?"

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When my dad died, my sister asked my mom if she could wear his watch. The next day, my mom mentioned it to me and asked if it was okay with me to let my sister keep it. I was totally fine with it but I can understand why Kevin just saw that Randall had their dad’s watch and reacted.  When there is more than one kid in the family, it seems inevitable that there may be treasured items that more than one person will want. My sister also wanted my dad’s wedding ring. I was like well, hold on there, because our other sister didn’t put up a fight about the watch and so I thought she should get dibs on the ring - but only if my mom didn’t want to keep it. I know it’s a little different because my sisters and I were older than the Big Three when our dad died, but there is always the potential for sibling rivalry to rear its head when it comes to dividing up a parent’s stuff. 

 I must have been writing my post the same time as you! The similarities are uncanny!

[Bean421]

Kevin already had the necklace though. Is Randall allowed to have nothing unless Kevin approves? 

If Kevin didn't have a memento already it would be a different story but he has something too. 

[screenaddict]

I've watched 50-year-old get ugly over whether Grandma should be cremated with her watch or whether it should be removed at the last minute and kept as a memento. These are 17-year-old kids who are reeling over their dad's death. I don't blame Randall for asking for his dad's watch. I don't blame Kevin for wondering why Randall gets to wear the watch. I don't blame them for getting into an argument, because they're hurting and lashing out at the ones closest to them.

Watching Rebecca drive was difficult. Yes, women drive, and Rebecca drove herself around just fine.  But for family outings, Jack was always the driver. Rebecca had to move into the driver's seat figuratively and literally on one of the most difficult days of her life. I'm surprised that the three didn't just go into the back seat, in hopes of maintaining some sort of normalcy.

[PRgal]

38 minutes ago, kilda said:

I can't wait for the heartwarming flashbacks of Louie's puppyhood.

Is the dog's name a shout-out to the Babysitters' Club?  Louie was one of Kristy's dogs if I recall.  Kate would have read those books.  

[TV Diva Queen]

5 minutes ago, screenaddict said:

I've watched 50-year-old get ugly over whether Grandma should be cremated with her watch or whether it should be removed at the last minute and kept as a memento. These are 17-year-old kids who are reeling over their dad's death. I don't blame Randall for asking for his dad's watch. I don't blame Kevin for wondering why Randall gets to wear the watch. I don't blame them for getting into an argument, because they're hurting and lashing out at the ones closest to them.

Watching Rebecca drive was difficult. Yes, women drive, and Rebecca drove herself around just fine.  But for family outings, Jack was always the driver. Rebecca had to move into the driver's seat figuratively and literally on one of the most difficult days of her life. I'm surprised that the three didn't just go into the back seat, in hopes of maintaining some sort of normalcy.

Funny - I saw it the exact opposite way...its the new normal and they have to adjust (figuratively and literally) and it brought it home for me when she crossed the bridge, eyes side open (ok, semi-wide).  :)

[ShadowFacts]

Kevin and the watch - he was reacting at the wrong person, at the wrong place, and wrong time.  He could have vented about it not in public, and not while supposedly honoring his dad.  It's him letting loose at Randall like he often does. 

It looks like Rebecca's mother is dead by the time of the funeral, or there is a permanent estrangement.  Or dire illness.  She needed to be there otherwise. 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Kevin and the watch - he was reacting at the wrong person, at the wrong place, and wrong time.  He could have vented about it not in public, and not while supposedly honoring his dad.  It's him letting loose at Randall like he often does. 

It looks like Rebecca's mother is dead by the time of the funeral, or there is a permanent estrangement.  Or dire illness.  She needed to be there otherwise. 

I thought I saw her in the backround with Rebecca.  She didn't have any speaking part, but the actress was there.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It looks like Rebecca's mother is dead by the time of the funeral, or there is a permanent estrangement.  Or dire illness.  She needed to be there otherwise. 

Now, according to IMDB, Elizabeth Perkins is credited for being in this episode. I think she might have been there, but there wasn't much focus on any characters other than the Pearsons. I know Sophie was for sure at the funeral and reception, but we barely got a glimpse of her for both. 

[LeisureTime]

51 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I agree with all of this, even the 'skipping school' part, despite my previous posts, because technically, yes she was skipping school, but not skipping classes, and yeah if she's a good student and this was not a regular 'thing' for her, then I have no problem with her dad going along with it. My dad would've, too.

You can't skip school without skipping classes. I mean, I agree that it probably wasn't a regular thing for her and she could make up the lessons that she missed so it's not going to destroy her education or be the first stop on a path to delinquency but this idea that she wasn't really missing anything baffles me. But yeah, I don't disagree with what Jack did. In  a way it was its own lesson on following passions (one that Kate ultimately failed but maybe she's getting a do-over now). I just wish it also coyld hav been a teachable moment about being open and honest rather than sneaking around.

[ShortyMac]

Okay, I did not pay attention to the date on this post. I did not think there would be an episode last night and didn't think to check. Guess I'm behind now...

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I thought I saw her in the backround with Rebecca.  She didn't have any speaking part, but the actress was there.

Good catch, I didn't see her and I was expecting to.  I don't think she was seated with the family at the cemetery, and not with Rebecca on the sofa at the reception.  Maybe she had a speaking part that was cut. 

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, LeisureTime said:

You can't skip school without skipping classes. I mean, I agree that it probably wasn't a regular thing for her and she could make up the lessons that she missed so it's not going to destroy her education or be the first stop on a path to delinquency but this idea that she wasn't really missing anything baffles me. But yeah, I don't disagree with what Jack did. In  a way it was its own lesson on following passions (one that Kate ultimately failed but maybe she's getting a do-over now). I just wish it also coyld hav been a teachable moment about being open and honest rather than sneaking around.

One last kick at the dead horse, lol. Kate said "I had no exams today". Unless it's just a Canadian thing, there are no classes when exams are on, so if she had no exams, there were no classes for her to be skipping. She does make it seem like she could/should have been in the building, but she wouldn't be missing any class work by not being there.

[chocolatine]

19 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It looks like Rebecca's mother is dead by the time of the funeral, or there is a permanent estrangement.  Or dire illness.  She needed to be there otherwise. 

 

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I thought I saw her in the backround with Rebecca.  She didn't have any speaking part, but the actress was there.

Yes, she was there. She gave Rebecca a stiff hug. It was part of a montage with music, so we didn't hear her say anything.

[PRgal]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

One last kick at the dead horse, lol. Kate said "I had no exams today". Unless it's just a Canadian thing, there are no classes when exams are on, so if she had no exams, there were no classes for her to be skipping. She does make it seem like she could/should have been in the building, but she wouldn't be missing any class work by not being there.

I'm from Canada (Toronto) and I did not have to be on campus during finals week if I did not have an exam.  Not in the 90s, anyway.   

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, PRgal said:

I'm from Canada (Toronto) and I did not have to be on campus during finals week if I did not have an exam.  Not in the 90s, anyway.   

Not in the 80's either (Sutton). :)

[memememe76]

Great episode. The teens were sensational. I was impressed how Teen Kevin tried to hold it in, while the others wept openly. 

Those 19-20 years between Jack's death and when we first see the family in the Pilot is a long time. 

Randall meets and marries Beth. Kevin is an integral part of that meetup. Randall goes to college, we don't yet know the name, but it's "close" to Rebecca. He gets a fancy job. He and Beth buy a big house. He has a nervous breakdown. He has two kids. There is a lot of "stuff" that he experiences in that time period.

Kevin goes to school far away (to study acting?), marries Sophie, becomes a struggling actor, starts exploring improv and comedy, hires Kate as his assistant, gets his big break with The Manny. 

Kate is such a blank, relatively speaking. Does she go to school? She waitresses. She sits in a car in front of her old house and binge eats. She did have a job, where she may have been in love with her boss. For me, Kate is best when she is chatty and really engaged with other people, like she was with Jami Getz. 

Rebecca--we have no idea what happens to her until ten years later, when she reacquaints herself with Miguel. 

That Kevin/Randall relationship is really so interesting. The development is fascinating. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by memememe76

[shoovenbooty]

46 minutes ago, Bean421 said:

Kevin already had the necklace though. Is Randall allowed to have nothing unless Kevin approves? 

If Kevin didn't have a memento already it would be a different story but he has something too. 

Randall is  definitely entitled to something of Jack's. I kind of look at it as, Kevin was given the necklace while Jack was alive. The watch and anything else of Jack's after he died, should have been decided together as a family. I'm sure Kevin wouldn't have had a problem with Randall having the watch if it had been discussed before he saw it on his wrist. Emotions were high, and to Kevin it looked as though Randall was taking his dad's watch and trying to step into his dad's role, as irrational as that is. I'm sure Kevin wasn't thinking about the necklace at that point. The whole situation could have been handled better, on both sides.

I forget, did the watch have some kind of significance? Everything else on this show has a significance, and it's hard to keep track. The car, the tree, the necklace, the other necklace...

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

One last kick at the dead horse, lol. Kate said "I had no exams today". Unless it's just a Canadian thing, there are no classes when exams are on, so if she had no exams, there were no classes for her to be skipping. She does make it seem like she could/should have been in the building, but she wouldn't be missing any class work by not being there.

Also, Kate is a senior.  It is possible that she does not have to attend for the whole day even without exams.  Jack being the clueless dad probably just assumed that all the kids go to school for the whole day everyday just like he did.  For all we know, Kate has been leaving school early all year.

[memememe76]

I don't think the watch has shown to have any significance on the show. But I could easily have forgotten. I totally forgot the tie moment that Jack and Kid Randall had back in season one until that tiny shot. 

[Crs97]

I agree with the poster who said if she were allowed to be out of school she would have told her parents her plans.  She didn’t.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Crs97

[Katekate]

I know this has been discussed a lot already....but I have to vent. Kate loved the dog. Jack loved Kate so much he risked his life to go back for the dog. Jack dies. No one will ever know the exact cause. Kate resents and gives away the dog ( we think ). Jack was the one who wanted to get a family dog. Good grief , Kate . You could choose to see the dog as a family member and a beautiful reminder of how much your dad loved you. Why not throw away the photo albums and Rebecca’s necklace as well? I’ve tried so hard to like Kate for 2 seasons now. But now I’m beginning to think she’s just an asshole who only thinks about herself. ( and...did her brilliant plan of giving the dog away work? She wallows in her dads death everyday for the next 20 years anyway ).

 

iP.S. If Kate comes to her senses and keeps and cherishes the dog, I’m the asshole. I am aware of that ?.

[gonzosgirrl]

Maybe I missed it - but no talk about Kevin blaming Randall for not stopping Jack? I know they seemed okay(ish) by the end of the episode, but I can't imagine an accusation like that would be so easily forgotten (by either of them).

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Also, Kate is a senior.  It is possible that she does not have to attend for the whole day even without exams.  Jack being the clueless dad probably just assumed that all the kids go to school for the whole day everyday just like he did.  For all we know, Kate has been leaving school early all year.

Then, she wouldn't have acted guilty when he saw her.  She would have said, "I'm done for the day", or "I don't have to be in until noon".  Not, "I don't have any tests today so it's totally OK that I skip."  And, I can't believe you're calling Jack a clueless dad.  He is superinvolved in his kids' lives. 

[Trillium]

28 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I don't think the watch has shown to have any significance on the show. But I could easily have forgotten. 

Oh lord, don’t give the writers any ideas that we need a watch origination story! LOL. 

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe I missed it - but no talk about Kevin blaming Randall for not stopping Jack? I know they seemed okay(ish) by the end of the episode, but I can't imagine an accusation like that would be so easily forgotten (by either of them).

Well, I thought Randall effectively countered that by saying he wasn't there, sort of taking the wind out of Kevin's sails a bit.  It's all part of his generalized bile that he has for Randall;  I note that he didn't say that to his mother or sister.  In the last few episodes, Kevin's bitterness comes out to play against Randall easily.

[CourtneyCourt]

16 hours ago, J0nas3 said:

Did anybody catch where the Bruce concert was? I heard Rebecca say /something/ Center, and I was wondering where that was because the Igloo was Civic Arena.

The tickets said the Benedum Center. He came to Nick Fat’s City in March 1998 actually. 

[mcjen]

4 hours ago, Shermie said:

Hollywood funerals are always outside on perfect sunny days because they're filmed in California. They don't give a crap where the shows are actually set. I've never been to an outdoor funeral, even if the weather is nice. Funerals are in churches or halls, and the family goes to the cemetery for a private interment service. (Note it's not "internment", unless the deceased got an entry level job in heaven. ?)

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I am certainly not familiar with funeral customs nationwide, but it was odd to me that there was a service at the cemetery when Jack's ashes were not being interred there. 

I also found this odd. I guess it's because you can shoot prettier pictures in sunny cemeteries than in funeral home chapels.

I'm not one to ordinarily defend "Hollywood" aesthetics, but, as a person who worked on television shows in the 80's and 90's, I feel a duty to point out that the industry gravitated to southern California in the early 20th century precisely because of the dependability of the weather.  Throughout most of the year, you can schedule exterior scenes with a very reasonable certainty that you will actually be able to shoot on the day (as opposed to the radical variability of the Midwest where I live now.)  

Yes, there are a few months in the winter that get rain, but it's hard to count on, and, frankly, it's always miserable to be shooting in those conditions.  (To this day, I still get mildly annoyed when I hear actors/actresses on late night television complaining about how horrible conditions were on this or that shoot, knowing that odds are good they had a Plush Mobile Home to retire to between set-ups, and that some poor soaked-to-the-skin schmo was likely holding an umbrella over the actor's head up until the moment the cameras rolled!)  Again, there is often cloud cover for a few hours in the morning which might enable them to catch an overcast look, but those clouds could easily burn off before those outdoor funeral scenes were complete, giving you a distinct mismatch from one shot to the next.

As a one-hour weekly drama, This Is Us probably shoots on an incredibly tight schedule.  (What we used to call "episodics" back then were notoriously tighter than half-hour sit-coms, 2 hr. tv-movies or pilots of any length. )  Because they utilize minor children in the regular cast (two sets of three each), they have also to contend with the limited hours minors can have on set, along with the requirement to get so-many-hours of school time logged.  So, I expect scheduling this show is quite a logistical headache; being able to eliminate intemperate weather from the variables is a plus.  Given a decision has been made to shoot the series in the Los Angeles area, I doubt that no one gives a crap where the show is set, but  I do accept as inevitable that backgrounds and/or weather will sometimes reveal where they really are. But heck...I watched Little House on the Prairie for years when I was young without it ever dawning on me those golden hills looked less like any part of Minnesota I'd ever seen and more like Simi Valley!

I'm not excusing the failure to costume accordingly for Pennsylvania weather at the time of a Super Bowl, nor can I explain why a family would hold a funeral service outdoors without an interment.  Certainly the show Six Feet Under was able to shoot services in funeral homes and chapels successfully.  Perhaps Rebecca was carrying to extremes Jack's wish to be "outside"?

Lastly, another poster (whom I can't locate now) mentioned hearing Mandy Moore say somewhere that they were freezing while shooting the scenes on the street when the house was burning.  That was certainly shot at night and, being a desert region, L.A. can get quite chilly at night, especially if they filmed that in December or early January.  I didn't happen to notice the street behind them but, on most street scenes I worked on, the director of photography usually called for a water truck to wet the street down.  If they did that for this, it would have put some mist in the air, which would have made it even chillier.  (Personally, I've never understood the cinematographers' preference for wet streets.  "Why?" I asked several of them.  "Because it looks better," was the only answer I ever got.  "No, it looks like it just rained.  Is it supposed to have just rained?")

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, screenaddict said:

Watching Rebecca drive was difficult. Yes, women drive, and Rebecca drove herself around just fine.  But for family outings, Jack was always the driver. Rebecca had to move into the driver's seat figuratively and literally on one of the most difficult days of her life. I'm surprised that the three didn't just go into the back seat, in hopes of maintaining some sort of normalcy.

What struck me was Randall getting into the front passenger seat, without remark, discussion, or awkwardness. 

As for the school thing, none of the American schools I went to had different schedules for exams, that is you attended classes every day, even if the duration of the classes were different, and the same was true for my children, who graduated in the 2000's. That being said, my main take was that Kate acted guilty, and we know she expected Jack to drive her back to school. So, for me, all signs point to skipping.

[ChicksDigScars]

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

I didn't cry last night - I thought it was a little lame.  However, I'm LOL-ing at the "Atlantis Morissette" comment.  My dad would have said the same thing.  

I don't think Jack was old enough to be playing the "I'm too old and unhip to know who Alanis Morrisette is" card. I think he was probably kidding around, right? 

 

Reminds me of when I was a teenager and my friend and I went to Summerfest in Milwaukee to see Hall and Oates (the 80's, when they were in their MTV phase and were HUGE).  My grandmother asked how we liked the "Hauling Oates" concert.   

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I don't think Jack was old enough to be playing the "I'm too old and unhip to know who Alanis Morrisette is" card. I think he was probably kidding around, right? 

 

Reminds me of when I was a teenager and my friend and I went to Summerfest in Milwaukee to see Hall and Oates (the 80's, when they were in their MTV phase and were HUGE).  My grandmother asked how we liked the "Hauling Oates" concert.   

Maybe - but he has to be the type who watches Entertainment Tonight or at least glances at magazine covers at the supermarket check-out to really know of Alanis.  

[mcjen]

10 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Reminds me of when I was a teenager and my friend and I went to Summerfest in Milwaukee to see Hall and Oates (the 80's, when they were in their MTV phase and were HUGE).  My grandmother asked how we liked the "Hauling Oates" concert.   

I had an English teacher who tried to be very cool in the 70's, presenting a unit that employed pop lyrics.  He translated "Jesus Christ Superstar" as "Pizza pie, pizza pie, who are you what have you sacrificed."  ;-)

Edited February 7, 2018 by mcjen

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I thought I saw her in the backround with Rebecca.  She didn't have any speaking part, but the actress was there.

Yes, and Elizabeth Perkins' name was in the guest star credits.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

es she was skipping school, but not skipping classes,

How do you know she wasn't skipping classes?  She said she didn't have any tests, not that she didn't have any classes.  No big deal, I'm just wondering why so many people think that a typical day for Kate at school is just sitting around in study halls and watching TV.

19 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I don't think Jack was old enough to be playing the "I'm too old and unhip to know who Alanis Morrisette is" card. I think he was probably kidding around, right?

How old do you have to be for that?  He was at least 50.  Which I'm creeping up on, so I'm not saying you're dead at 50. But, if he mostly listens to music for "his day," it doesn't seem odd that he wouldn't know who Alannis Morrisette was.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

How do you know she wasn't skipping classes?  She said she didn't have any tests, not that she didn't have any classes.  No big deal, I'm just wondering why so many people think that a typical day for Kate at school is just sitting around in study halls and watching TV.

I think the crux of this is the difference between 'tests' and 'exams'. In my mind, tests are what you have as a matter of course, throughout the semesters (or terms in some schools). You could have a test in any given class on any given day, and not in others (still attending a full schedule of classes during the day). Exams, to me, are end of semester/term things, held during one week, when no other classes are ongoing, only exams. If you had none scheduled, or were exempt, you didn't have to attend. There was no home-room or attendance taken, except in the exam.

Granted, Kate acted like she should be at school, but stated clearly she had no exams, which to me, implied she wasn't missing anything.

And now I declare my horse in this race officially dead. *g*

Edited February 7, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't think it's inevitable.  I don't think Louie or Kate in any way whatsoever caused Jack's death, so for Kate to view it that way is an odd choice.  Where does it end?   Why not blame Crockpot and the NFL and Rebecca for not cleaning up?  Why not go through life avoiding electrical appliances and open flames and dietary cholesterol?  Well, that latter might at least have had an actual hand in his death.  But it seems to be what she goes to for comfort, not shuns like she does dogs.  

If she doesn't blame herself or the dog she has to, logically, blame Jack for going back into the house.  That's not going to happen.  Not immediately after his death.

[-pj-]

3 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I thought Rebecca's pledge to spend the rest of her days making sure Kate didn't feel as though Jack's death was her fault was interesting. Clearly that didn't work out so well. 

It's hard for me to relate teen Kate to adult Kate, any physical resemblance notwithstanding. She seems pretty strong as a teen, and incredibly weak as an adult. And her speech about Toby "saving" her still bugs.  I would have preferred to see her on a journey to save herself.

That was the part that really got to me. First when they started the conversation in the kitchen when Rebecca didn’t shut down Kate’s doubt because of her own grief and her ability not to comprehend what is happening. She wasn’t in the right head space to explain to her child it wasn’t her fault which in no way was it as it could have happened regardless if he hadn’t gone back in.  Yet the scene by the tree where she categorically shut it down, I was like yes Rebecca but we know that Kate never fully accepted that fact. Jack was a grown man who decided to go back into the house. No one forced him back in he choose to.    

[chocolatine]

38 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I don't think Jack was old enough to be playing the "I'm too old and unhip to know who Alanis Morrisette is" card. I think he was probably kidding around, right? 

My dad is younger than both Jack and Rebecca, and he didn't know who Alanis or any of the artists were that I listened to in the 90s. He would come into my room as I was listening to music, try to listen with me for a bit, then give up and say he didn't get it. When we're in the car together he only lets me play 70s and 80s music, like Fleetwood Mac, Tom Petty, Queen, and - inexplicably - Billy Idol.

I'm 37 now and watched the Grammys last week for the first time in many years, and I didn't know who half of the nominees were. And I own very few albums that were released in this century. I think most people establish their music preferences in their teens and don't change much after that.

Edited February 7, 2018 by chocolatine

[txhorns79]

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As for the school thing, none of the American schools I went to had different schedules for exams, that is you attended classes every day, even if the duration of the classes were different, and the same was true for my children, who graduated in the 2000's. That being said, my main take was that Kate acted guilty, and we know she expected Jack to drive her back to school. So, for me, all signs point to skipping.

Eh, when my high school went into exam week, you would only have one or two exams a day, and no other classes would be scheduled.  If you didn't have any exams scheduled for  day, you stayed home. 

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It's hard for me to relate teen Kate to adult Kate, any physical resemblance notwithstanding. She seems pretty strong as a teen, and incredibly weak as an adult. And her speech about Toby "saving" her still bugs.  I would have preferred to see her on a journey to save herself.

Teen Kate has yet to spend 20 years wallowing in her father's death like adult Kate has.

[3 is enough]

My dad had 4 watches, 4 rings, and 4 sons.  He left instructions as to which son got which ring and watch, but he knew he was dying and had time to get his affairs in order.  It did not bother me that my brothers got those things.  He did leave me his grandmother's wedding ring.

I can see how Kevin was upset about the watch though.  There was no discussion about how he got the necklace so Randall got the watch.  And Kate?  Well, I guess she got the ashes... 

Although thinking about it, Rebecca could have given Kate her moon necklace when she married Miguel.

[ChicksDigScars]

22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

How old do you have to be for that?  He was at least 50.  Which I'm creeping up on, so I'm not saying you're dead at 50. But, if he mostly listens to music for "his day," it doesn't seem odd that he wouldn't know who Alannis Morrisette was.

My parents were the same age group as Jack supposedly is in (Dad born in 1944 and Mom in 1946). They had a cooler album collection than I did. They were the Vietnam and Woodstock generation. I had the only parents in my high school with ALL the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, and the Who albums, plus Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.  My mother loved Eric Clapton and cried like a baby when John Lennon was murdered. Their generation was very in tune with music, as it was a huge part of the narrative of their lives.  So, I do think that Jack would have known who Alanis was, especially after she swept the Grammy's that year.  Also especially if he hears her music being played in his daughter's bedroom regularly. Yeah, I had headphones as a teen, but I also played music without them.  My parents knew what I listened to, and regularly told me that my taste in music sucked (they had no clue that I snuck their albums and played with their forbidden stereo when they weren't around).  So, I totally think that Jack was pulling Kate's leg.  

 

As for my parents, I agree. I grew up in the 70's and 80's.  In comparison to their generation, my taste in music as a kid, indeed, sucked. :)

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think the crux of this is the difference between 'tests' and 'exams'. In my mind, tests are what you have as a matter of course, throughout the semesters (or terms in some schools). You could have a test in any given class on any given day, and not in others (still attending a full schedule of classes during the day). Exams, to me, are end of semester/term things, held during one week, when no other classes are ongoing, only exams. If you had none scheduled, or were exempt, you didn't have to attend. There was no home-room or attendance taken, except in the exam.

Granted, Kate acted like she should be at school, but stated clearly she had no exams, which to me, implied she wasn't missing anything.

And now I declare my horse in this race officially dead. *g*

Exactly. And that's what is confusing about that scene in general. Jack was acting like she was skipping school, like she was missing actual classes. Kate told him that she didn't have any exams that day, and for high school, exams are different than tests. So, what is it? Was Kate legitimately skipping school, or was it exam week where she wasn't missing anything? It wasn't a well written scene because I still don't know what the answer is. 

I guess all the writers had to do was just switched the word exams to tests, and there'd be no confusion as to Kate skipping school.

[NutMeg]

18 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I also thought the scene where Jack was working on the car & the boys walk up and he matter of factly tells them about his brother.  He wants Randall & Kevin to have a real brotherly relationship.  I realize as I get older how important my sisters & our shared(and yet different) memories are.

off topic, slightly, but when my brother died it helped to be able to share fun parts of him with people who had experienced them too; when my father died, there was only my mother left, and she didn't want to hear of any fun memories I had of my dad, because they had been apart for a while and (as it took me a while  to understand, she still mourned the end of their relationship more than his death). This show has made me realized that when I or my ex die, my son won't have anyone (other than maybe the other parent left, but that would be awkward in any case) with whom to reminisce the fun stuff. And it's a weird feeling, having lost a sibling I thought him being an only child, at least he wouldn't have to suffer that. I also never though my marriage would end (yes, I'm very naive), and therefore never considered how tough the future losses could be for him. 

[PRgal]

Something I was wondering:  Where was Kate during the driving lesson?  They're all the same age, so they all should be learning how to drive at the same time.  Unless Kate decided to get her licence at a later time?