S02.E01: The Man Who Would Be Vogue

[TheGourmez]

Watching after reading so many reactions and reviews actually made the show more subtle than I expected! On dovegate, I'd have been satisfied with one pan to it in the morgue; two was overkill.

I haven't watched Season 1 - haven't decided to cough up money for it yet, hoping it comes to Hulu - so I can't compare S2 to that. I think the aspects of gaudiness in score and portrayals are purposeful as a reflection of the Versace aesthetic, and I dig it.

I'm not amazed with Darren's performance yet, though it's good. I'm a fangirl of 8 years at this point, but I think I'm still capable of rationality. ;) Ricky Martin has been pretty good thus far, and as a lifelong General Hospital viewer, "pretty good" is way better than I expected. Ricky got so much crap for his acting as Miguel on GH - he was pretty entertaining on it, regardless of the acting competency. Nice to see him onscreen again for me. I thought Penelope was great, and I look forward to seeing more of Edgar's portrayal.

I am drawn into serial killer cases; something in me yearns to understand how anyone can give in to such depravity. So I'm all in for sure. I'm hoping to be awed with future eps.

[Miles]

Did they really let the boyfriend sit in Versace's blood for hours and even questioned him that way? Wow that's some psychological torture and gross incompetence right there.

Donatella doesn't seem to be the nicest person either. How she treated her brothers boyfriend was just cruel. It's not like he is some flusy who knew him for a few days. They were together for 15 years.

 

On 18.1.2018 at 5:37 AM, Blakeston said:

My feeling about the depiction of Cunanan is, aren't sociopaths supposed to be good at hiding that they're sociopaths? Anyone who didn't just fall off the turnip truck should have been able to tell in less than 5 minutes that he was completely full of it.

No, not really. Some are really bad at it. It's just that nobody ever thinks that the person they are talking to could be a sociopath. You think "lying, phony poser", but not "he probably kills people".

 

On 18.1.2018 at 6:49 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

MAN, that decor and the overuse of GOLD was alot on my eyes.  

I thought it wasn't thaaaaat bad. But I've seen how Trump lives and that might have scewed my scale for tacky overuse of gold.

[Nordly Beaumont]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:28 PM, mojoween said:

I do not ever want to speak ill of the departed, but if that was a good representation of Versace’s mansion, hoo boy was it tacky.  Even for 1997.

Too much walking for me! By the time I went down the hall for a robe, down a million stairs, through the courtyard and finally get to breakfast, I'd be too exhausted to eat!

That last bit with the newspapers - laying them down one by one, asking "All of them?" so cheesy! "All of them?" "No, I just put five down for dramatic effect. I only want the top one."

One of Cunanan's murders was here in Minneapolis, the first one I think. I remember every newscaster had a different way of pronouncing Cunanan. CU-naa-nin, cuNAHnin, Cu-ninin etc. I was kind of annoyed, but kind also kind of pleased that they couldn't be bothered to get it right. A nobody indeed.

[Bruinsfan]

15 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I think Donatella is "cold" in real life so I'm not surprised at her portrayal.  However, I do think Penelope was too pretty to play Donatella.

I've long thought that Donatella looks like a better-dressed female version of Riff Raff, so if they'd cast an actress who actually looks like her (assuming they could find one), people would have been flinching back from their wide-screen TVs in shock and horror.

[Blakeston]

8 hours ago, Quiet1ne said:

One of the reoccurring sentiments from his friends in the book is they picked up that he was full of it most of the time however he was funny, generous, and entertaining so they did not care.   The ones who saw his stalkerish side and tried to pull away were his first two kills.

I think that's my issue - in his interactions with people thus far, he doesn't seem at all funny or generous, even on the surface. He's just being obnoxious.

It feels like they're trying so hard to convey that he's phony and conniving that they're not bothering to show us his charm.

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

That last bit with the newspapers - laying them down one by one, asking "All of them?" so cheesy! "All of them?" "No, I just put five down for dramatic effect. I only want the top one."

I know, but they had to do it to bookend the 'all of them' the newspaper guy says to AC when he's buying the newpapers.

[MaggieG]

10 hours ago, willco said:

I'm glad that the magazine-in-blood story is apparently just to jazz up the story, but if it wasn't it wouldn't really surprise me. People have been doing crap like that forever. I just watched a biography of Bonnie and Clyde, and after they were shot up all to hell, a crowd gathered while the cops took inventory of the things in their car ( and the 2 were just laying in the car, dead) and people were taking pieces of clothes, pieces of the car, dipping hankerchiefs in their blood, and the show said one guy was trying to cut off Clyde's trigger finger with his pocket knife. At this point, the cops finally started moving people away. And this happened in the 30's ! People are people, no matter when. On a side note, it's kind of amazing how fast word got out, all they had then was telephone and word of mouth. And it happened out in the country. Guess it just shows how famous they were.

I'm also wondering if the model who walked behind the reporter and did a pose was real?

So far, I liked this. Edgar Ramirez looks a lot like Versace. Was the guy with Donatella their other brother? I don't think they said who he was. 

So did the one FBI agent have all those wanted posters of AC in his trunk and they weren't distributed until after Versace was shot? But they were already searching for him? That was a bit confusing

[DXD526]

That mansion sure is gaudy. I'll take my humble abode over that tacky palace any day!

Watching this episode brought back some unpleasant memories of how the media covered this story. It was very much gawking at the gay zoo. It was considered homocide, not homicide, and the facts were reported with an air of detached condescension. The implication was, this was a gay crime and if you weren't one of 'them', then this story didn't really concern you. Of course, Cunanan was a sociopathic killer who was a danger to everyone, regardless of sexuality, but the gay thing was all the media could see. I had forgotten about that aspect of the case and it wasn't pleasant to be reminded.

[Hoi Polloi]

Quote

Also Penelope’s Donatella voice is hard to understand sometimes.

Close captioning helps. I watched it with my elderly parents who use close captioning on everything because they are hard of hearing. I thought it would be annoying but it was surprisingly helpful.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's Epic Old-School Recap of the episode!

 

The Assassination Of Gianni Versace Begins At The End

American Crime Story returns with a portrait of the assassin as a self-loathing grifter.

[truthaboutluv]

On 1/18/2018 at 0:37 AM, Blakeston said:

My feeling about the depiction of Cunanan is, aren't sociopaths supposed to be good at hiding that they're sociopaths? Anyone who didn't just fall off the turnip truck should have been able to tell in less than 5 minutes that he was completely full of it.

I don't think people didn't realize Andrew was a liar. I think they just didn't realize how truly batshit crazy and dangerous he was. I think at best they figured he was a bit delusional but that was it. Based on what we saw in the first episode, I didn't get the sense that his friend (or whoever she was) and her husband believed half the crap he was saying. At one point the wife even mouths to her husband to stop because his expressions made it clear that he thought Andrew was completely full of shit. The guy who liked Andrew basically confronted him about his constant lying and changing facts about himself to suit whoever he was talking to. As for the conversation with Gianni, whether or not those two ever met in passing, I don't doubt for one second that the whole sequence was one of Andrew's many delusions and it never happened. 

 

On 1/18/2018 at 0:45 AM, mojoween said:

Also Penelope’s Donatella voice is hard to understand sometimes.

Which is perfect because Donatella is hard to understand. Seriously, search for any Donatella interview and you'll be lucky to understand every five words or so she says.

 

On 1/18/2018 at 0:20 PM, numbnut said:

Either I forgot or had know idea that Cunanan was a serial killer. I'd like to see some of the investigations of the other murders but I doubt the show will go that deep.

According to reviews by critics who've already seen the season, that is exactly what's going to happen and why the series started with Gianni's murder, essentially telling the story in reverse and try to explain how Andrew and Gianni's paths ended up crossing on that day. It is my understanding that we see all of Andrew's murders prior to his murder of Gianni. 

 

On 1/18/2018 at 1:23 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I agree. Why did they end up casting her instead of Lady Gaga?

Because Penelope can actually act? 

 

22 hours ago, planet17 said:

"The People Vs OJ Simpson" was fantastic, sure. But I think it's too soon to compare both season. This was only the first episode, now we need to see how things unfold. And every season should have its own tone and style. I just hope "The Assassination Of Gianni Versace" can bring an interesting social commentary to LGBT issues, the same way "The People Vs OJ Simpson" brought to sexism and racism.

As noted above, based on reviews of the season, that is exactly what the season is going to attempt to do and we already saw the foundation and seeds of this in the first episode. That detective interviewing Gianni's partner was completely out of line. He couldn't let his obvious disgust towards the gay lifestyle and his judgments any more obvious. He seemed more interested in sneering and judging their lifestyle than conducting an actual investigation.

There was also how long it took for the ambulance to get there and how the detectives were all standing back, like they were afraid to get close to gay man who was bleeding, likely because of AIDS panic still, even in 1997. And I'm sure they will look at the fact that Andrew was on the FBI's Most Wanted List, had killed like four people and yet the local FBI agents saw no reason to put the flyers of his face up. The belief is that it was likely due to most of Andrew's victims being gay, so they really didn't care as much until someone as high profile as Gianni was killed. 

As for the comparisons to the O.J. series, not only am I already over it, considering these are two vastly different stories but two, I have the unpopular opinion that while the O.J. series was good, it was by no means perfect and in fact I found the finale episode incredibly disappointing and lackluster.

Without question Sarah Paulson, Sterling K. Brown and Courtney B. Vance were all standouts on the series but as others mentioned, the fact is the O.J. Simpson trial was such  a moment in American history that the writers and creators of the show would have had to epicly screw up for the series to have not been good. Not to mention that the source material it was based on was one of the more compelling and successful ones about the whole incident. 

I just think the dismissal of this season based on one episode in comparison to The People vs. O.J. Simpson is a bit much. I think the season deserves to be judged on its own merit. Don't care for the acting, writing, etc. - fine. But to judge its social relevance in comparison to O.J. after one episode is a little much. YMMV. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[FormerMod-a1]

From the recap

Quote

... and broods at what looks like a healing burn mark on his left thigh before wandering into the water and screaming at it…...

I was wondering what was with the injury on the thigh, and why it was focused on, even briefly.  Burns are as good a guess of anything.  I wondered if we were supposed to know something about that, if it referenced anything we'd know about.  I guess not.  Maybe we'll find out.  I have no idea why this stuck out to me, but it idid.

[txhorns79]

Quote

That detective interviewing Gianni's lover was completely out of line. He couldn't let his obvious disgust towards the gay lifestyle and his judgments any more obvious. He seemed more interested in sneering and judging their lifestyle than conducting an actual investigation.

I didn't think he was showing disgust so much as he was showing ignorance.  He really didn't understand how the relationship worked.  Now you can question if a detective in South Beach would really be so ignorant that he wouldn't have a general understanding of the relationship, but that's a different issue. 

Quote

I wondered if we were supposed to know something about that, if it referenced anything we'd know about.  I guess not.  Maybe we'll find out.  I have no idea why this stuck out to me, but it idid.

Interesting, I thought we were seeing some kind of infected wound, and Andrew was throwing up because he was ill. 

[Miles]

9 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I've long thought that Donatella looks like a better-dressed female version of Riff Raff, so if they'd cast an actress who actually looks like her (assuming they could find one), people would have been flinching back from their wide-screen TVs in shock and horror.

She clearly looks like Janice: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Janice

Edited January 19, 2018 by Miles

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 1/18/2018 at 10:05 AM, mojoween said:

Ok so that Vulture article linked above does indicate the magazine placed in blood was unlikely in real life. That is good to know.

Also I’m irritated on the pawn shop owner’s behalf that the real lady is Cuban but was cast as a white woman.

So....I'm going to be that person....

Cuban is not a race. I know white Cubans, black Cubans, and mixed-race/biracial Cubans. I think the real Vivian Oliva likely identifies as a white Cuban/white Hispanic (Hispanic isn't a race, either.)  https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/vivian-oliva-56-is-the-pawn-shop-employee-who-gave-andrew-news-photo/112922046#vivian-oliva-56-is-the-pawn-shop-employee-who-gave-andrew-cunanan-picture-id112922046

Do you mean you're irritated a non-Hispanic/non-Cuban white woman was playing a white Cuban woman?  I do think that's fair. However, in this story we do have two Hispanic actors playing non-Hispanic white characters (characters that are more central to the story than Vivian Oliva's character). Edgar Ramirez is Hispanic (Venezuelan) and plays Gianni Versace, an Italian. Ricky Martin is Puerto Rican. While Ricky is Hispanic (Puerto Rican), the character he portrays, Antonio D'Amico, was also Italian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_D'Amico  So we have two Hispanic actors playing non-Hispanic lead(ish) roles. 

(And technically "Hispanic" includes people from Spain by many definitions - as it has to do with Spanish heritage - and Penelope Cruz is a Spaniard playing an Italian.)

So while it's a valid argument that Hollywood generally doesn't cast Hispanic actors for Hispanic roles (or perhaps in general) as it should, it's kind of ironic to point that out on this series where Hispanics are playing non-Hispanics (and in higher-profile roles than the role of Vivian). 

Edited January 19, 2018 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I mostly found it striking that I'd seen Moriarty twice in a week.

 

@sinkwriter thanks!

 

re: comments that Criss isn't playing Cunanan's charm/it "should be less obvious" that he's lying, I think you have a few things at work here. In serial-killer narratives there's always this central question, namely why did this happen/how could this have been stopped from happening/WHY wasn't it stopped from etc. The answer really is that there is no answer -- killers kill; it's not, unfortunately, something we can control per se, although extensive reading on the topic may make us feel like we can, but that's another monologue :) -- but in the case of a high-functioning sociopath like Cunanan, it's basically that he was harmless, until he wasn't. The lies were obvious, but they didn't seem significant, just sad. And often getting caught lying precipitates far more serious actual transgressions.

 

So there's that. In THIS narrative there's also the meta idea of perspective, so creating confusion about what happened versus what Cunanan merely said/wanted to have happened is part of a larger comment on both the nature of truth and the stories some LGBTQ people may have had to create around themselves in order to exist in the world 20 years ago.

 

 

Finally, when you're portraying a serial killer, a person who took and destroyed lives, even if he was a charming and generous delight to many many people and not a danger to the vast majority, it's very hard not to feel obliged to tip it a little away from that out of respect for the carnage he left in his wake. I'd say you see this somewhat in Mark Harmon's portrayal of Bundy, which is excellent, but renders Bundy as "off" in a way that I suspect was not quite the actual presentation. Not that he wasn't off; I just think it was less...performative. Which, duh, but it's TV. 

 

These theories brought to you by evening overcaffeination! 

[mojoween]

3 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

So....I'm going to be that person....

Cuban is not a race. I know white Cubans, black Cubans, and mixed-race/biracial Cubans. I think the real Vivian Oliva likely identifies as a white Cuban/white Hispanic (Hispanic isn't a race, either.)  https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/vivian-oliva-56-is-the-pawn-shop-employee-who-gave-andrew-news-photo/112922046#vivian-oliva-56-is-the-pawn-shop-employee-who-gave-andrew-cunanan-picture-id112922046

Do you mean you're irritated a non-Hispanic/non-Cuban white woman was playing a white Cuban woman?  I do think that's fair. However, in this story we do have two Hispanic actors playing non-Hispanic white characters (characters that are more central to the story than Vivian Oliva's character). Edgar Ramirez is Hispanic (Venezuelan) and plays Gianni Versace, an Italian. Ricky Martin is Puerto Rican. While Ricky is Hispanic (Puerto Rican), the character he portrays, Antonio D'Amico, was also Italian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_D'Amico  So we have two Hispanic actors playing non-Hispanic lead(ish) roles. 

(And technically "Hispanic" includes people from Spain by many definitions - as it has to do with Spanish heritage - and Penelope Cruz is a Spaniard playing an Italian.)

So while it's a valid argument that Hollywood generally doesn't cast Hispanic actors for Hispanic roles (or perhaps in general) as it should, it's kind of ironic to point that out on this series where Hispanics are playing non-Hispanics (and in higher-profile roles than the role of Vivian). 

Thank you.  I honestly meant no offense.  I should have said she was played by a woman who is not-Cuban.  

It is ironic that I didn’t think through the implications of the other actors playing nationalities not their own.  

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Which is perfect because Donatella is hard to understand. Seriously, search for any Donatella interview and you'll be lucky to understand every five words or so she says.

Truth!

 

9 hours ago, DXD526 said:

That mansion sure is gaudy. I'll take my humble abode over that tacky palace any day!

True story. A friend lived down the street from the mansion. When the family emptied it either before or after sale, he ended up selling a bunch of stuff they put out on the curb as trash on eBay for $10,000, including a set of silver Christmas trees.

9 hours ago, DXD526 said:

Watching this episode brought back some unpleasant memories of how the media covered this story. It was very much gawking at the gay zoo. It was considered homocide, not homicide, and the facts were reported with an air of detached condescension. The implication was, this was a gay crime and if you weren't one of 'them', then this story didn't really concern you. Of course, Cunanan was a sociopathic killer who was a danger to everyone, regardless of sexuality, but the gay thing was all the media could see. I had forgotten about that aspect of the case and it wasn't pleasant to be reminded.

I'm actually glad that this is the second season because it's high profile, but able to touch on themes that are very different from OJ.

[JakeyJokes]

My birthday is July 15th, so the Versace murder was kind of a big childhood memory for me (Morbid, I know).

The dove may have seemed like overkill, but they really did do an autopsy on it! Had they not known it was Cunanan right away, the dove would have thrown them off. In Mafia murders, it is common to leave a dead dove at the crime scene as a symbol.

Cruz was more understated than I expected, but that's a good thing. For a few moments I couldn't help thinking of Maya Rudolph on SNL shilling Versace Pockets.

[Aethera]

A reminder: just like with OJ, not everyone reading here knows the full story of the case. Do not post about events that happe outside the episode in the episode threads. Use the full case discussion thread for that.

[Enero]

I tried watching this but couldn’t even make it to the end. It just wasn’t good. As already been stated, the score was annoyingly distracting. The acting was okay.  Ricky Martin was the exception. He was awful.

I think the only scene that was actually decent was the one when Andrew’s friend (hello DL from Damnation ?) was confronting him about his lies. Also, I thought it was bizarre that his friend woke up to catch him about to masturbate over her husband/boyfriend but didn’t blink and eye. Strange.

I do give them props for the casting. Everyone looks like the people they’re  playing with the exception of Penelope Cruz. She’s way too pretty to play Dontella. I think Lady Gaga embodies the look more but might not have the acting capabilities to pull off even a mediocre portrayal  of the woman. 

Unless I hear there’s an improvement with future episodes I won’t be continuing with this installment of ACS. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Enero

[Florinaldo]

21 hours ago, ArmoPrincess said:

I had imagined that Andrew’s burn mark shown in the ocean was from kaposi sarcoma.

I do not think these look like Kaposi lesions. Perhaps it's a result of AC's "adventurous" lifestyle: a BDSM session gone wrong or some drug-related activity for example (AC's roommate awakened by the cops at the end of the episode was made up to look like the stereotypical addict). Since they made such a  point of showing it in close-up, I suppose we'll get the answer in another episode.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Florinaldo

[ooh.boo]

On 1/19/2018 at 0:51 AM, TheGourmez said:

 

I haven't watched Season 1 - haven't decided to cough up money for it yet, hoping it comes to Hulu - so I can't compare S2 to that. 

Season 1 is on Netflix streaming if you have that. 

[dubbel zout]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:23 PM, AgentRXS said:

I could see how an old-timer detective would be uneducated about the gay life-style back then.

Will Chase doesn't seem old enough to be an old-timer detective, but I suppose it took a while for the police to adapt.

On 1/19/2018 at 8:00 AM, Blakeston said:

It feels like they're trying so hard to convey that he's phony and conniving that they're not bothering to show us his charm.

I wonder if this is a first-episode issue—the show wants to establish who's who and what's what, so some of the points are hit a little harder than necessary. 

On 1/19/2018 at 10:47 AM, MaggieG said:

Was the guy with Donatella their other brother? I don't think they said who he was. 

Yes, that's supposed to be Santo. He and Gianni closely resembled each other IRL, so that casting is a bit of a fail for me.

I don't think this season can possibly touch the OJ one, mainly because the impact simply wasn't as widespread. That's no dig; they are two completely different crimes with completely different pathologies. (Sad to say, we'll never get anything approaching  Connie Britton as the morally corrupt Faye Resnick.) What is the same is the production values and very good casting (save for the odd clunker here and there; see above). 

[JakeyJokes]

37 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Will Chase doesn't seem old enough to be an old-timer detective, but I suppose it took a while for the police to adapt.

I wonder if this is a first-episode issue—the show wants to establish who's who and what's what, so some of the points are hit a little harder than necessary. 

Yes, that's supposed to be Santo. He and Gianni closely resembled each other IRL, so that casting is a bit of a fail for me.

I don't think this season can possibly touch the OJ one, mainly because the impact simply wasn't as widespread. That's no dig; they are two completely different crimes with completely different pathologies. (Sad to say, we'll never get anything approaching  Connie Britton as the morally corrupt Faye Resnick.) What is the same is the production values and very good casting (save for the odd clunker here and there; see above). 

It wasn't a stretch for me to believe that a heterosexual cop in 1995 would fail to wrap his head around the idea of a gay couple indulging in 3-ways with randoms. Even NOW, people flinch when presented with a representation that isn't traditional monogamy. 

Five points for using "the morally corrupt Faye Resnick". Would it have been overkill if someone would have said that on S1? They could have sent Camille Grammer residuals.

I also love most of the casting choices. It's nice to see Dascha Polenko (sp?) as the female detective who seems to be the only one who knows what she's doing. Her character on Orange is the New Black is usually defeated and sullen, so it's fun to see her playing someone who takes charge.

[Cara]

24 minutes ago, JakeyJokes said:

It wasn't a stretch for me to believe that a heterosexual cop in 1995 would fail to wrap his head around the idea of a gay couple indulging in 3-ways with randoms. Even NOW, people flinch when presented with a representation that isn't traditional monogamy. 

 

Exactly, I think they went a little overboard with having him not get the meaning of the word partner. But not quite understanding about them bringing in outside sex partners made sense. I think a lot people then and now would find that bizarre.

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I wonder if this is a first-episode issue—the show wants to establish who's who and what's what, so some of the points are hit a little harder than necessary. 

I think you are right. This episode showed AC at the end of his destructive trajectory, although they showed one or two instances of him turning on the charm to trick people, for example when his face immediately lit up when he came out of creeper mode before jumping on the bed with his hosts, and in his (probably largely imaginary) encounters with Versace. As the story goes backwards in time, we should see more of the charming scammer, coupled and contrasted with his violent outbursts.

32 minutes ago, Cara said:

Exactly, I think they went a little overboard with having him not get the meaning of the word partner. But not quite understanding about them bringing in outside sex partners made sense. I think a lot people then and now would find that bizarre.

As recently as the 70s, even the cops in San Francisco were not exactly empathetic to gay relationships or cognizant of their inner workings. So I am not surprised that a Miami cop would not fully understand the details of the reality he was investigating, but his complete ignorance may have been played up for dramatic purposes and to drive the socio-political message home.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Florinaldo

[meep.meep]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:13 PM, ghertigirl said:

Can someone please ID the song playing over the opening credits? Pretty sure it’s from another movie and it’s driving me crazy that I can’t ID it!

Eta: Adagio

from the original Roller Ball

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:42 AM, kicotan said:

Maybe it's just me but Penelope's Penelope voice is hard to understand sometimes...?

Penelope's Donatella ?   Donatella's Donatella voice is really hard to understand.  I thought Cruz is doing a good job playing her.  

[J-Man]

Can someone please educate the voiceover announcer on how to pronounce "Gianni?" You never pronounce the "i" after a "g" or a "c" in Italian -- they're only there to change the sound of the preceding consonant. So it's not gee-AH-nee, it's JAH-nee. Two syllables, not three. Most of the characters in the actual program got it right.

So Gregg Henry was listed in the credits as "Old Man," and Max Greenfield as "Ronnie." I didn't see either of them -- can someone with better (i.e., younger) eyes clue me in to where they appeared in the episode?

[Florinaldo]

58 minutes ago, J-Man said:

So Gregg Henry was listed in the credits as "Old Man," and Max Greenfield as "Ronnie." I didn't see either of them -- can someone with better (i.e., younger) eyes clue me in to where they appeared in the episode?

MG was AC's roommate who is sleeping in the apartment when the cops break in at the conclusion; he is barely recognizable as his character has obviously fallen on hard times (more in the next episodes I gather).

As for GH, I thought he might have been the old guy standing in a red Speedo looking at the police raid, but I think that guy is much older. Pehaps he was a character who was only peripheral for now and who will get more to do in future episodes.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Florinaldo

[marymon]

From recap "When a woman in front of him covers her mouth in horror, he studies her response with that Starman curious head-cock again, then imitates it, but under his hand, he's smiling. This really is a fantastic, simultaneously chilling and slappable performance by Darren Criss." I can't be the only one who laughed at this it was so bad.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, J-Man said:

Can someone please educate the voiceover announcer on how to pronounce "Gianni?" You never pronounce the "i" after a "g" or a "c" in Italian -- they're only there to change the sound of the preceding consonant. So it's not gee-AH-nee, it's JAH-nee. Two syllables, not three.

Ugh, I KNOW. It drives me absolutely batty that the forking FX announcer gets it wrong. How did no one correct that?

[starri]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:22 AM, Miles said:

Donatella doesn't seem to be the nicest person either. How she treated her brothers boyfriend was just cruel.

It went way beyond that, but I think that should be addressed in the general case thread.

[ratgirlagogo]

I enjoyed this so far.  I am seemingly the one person in the USA who was never that interested in the OJ case to begin with, and what little interest I had evaporated quickly as the trial dragged on for what seemed like a decade.  If there was a trial of the 20th century the OJ case was not  it anyway - it's a minor blip compared to the Nuremberg Trials, which would be my pick.     I'm MUCH more interested in the Versace case and it hasn't been done to death - I've only read the Maureen Orth  and  Gary Indiana books myself.   I'm liking the performances and as expected in a Ryan Murphy production the art direction is spectacular.   

Edited January 21, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[wanderingstar]

So, season 2 is finally here!

I liked this episode a lot. I only vaguely remember the story of Gianni Versace's death, but I thought this episode did a great job of world building and establishing the characters. Really enjoyed all the performances, but Ricky Martin and Penelope Cruz really stood out for me.

I'm in for the whole season.

[starri]

4 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I liked this episode a lot. I only vaguely remember the story of Gianni Versace's death, but I thought this episode did a great job of world building and establishing the characters.

The Versace story really got eclipsed when Princess Di died six weeks later.

I do think they did a great job of establishing "the 90s."  The use of "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" had me playing a bunch of 90s club music 

[ratgirlagogo]

2 minutes ago, starri said:

he Versace story really got eclipsed when Princess Di died six weeks later.

Yes, very true.

[Florinaldo]

15 hours ago, marymon said:

From recap "When a woman in front of him covers her mouth in horror, he studies her response with that Starman curious head-cock again, then imitates it, but under his hand, he's smiling. This really is a fantastic, simultaneously chilling and slappable performance by Darren Criss." I can't be the only one who laughed at this it was so bad.

I would agree with the recap. It is a good choice to portray AC as the chameleon he was, ready to mimic how people expected him to act or to say what they needed to hear to paraphrase a line in the episode. It may not have been totally original as others have pointed out, but it worked, whether it came from the script or was a contribution from the director or the cast. I think that the real kicker is when although he covers his mouth in a seemingly normal reaction of shock, you can see that he is smiling and looks very pleased with the media attention.

[smiley13]

I don't know a lot about this case, so for me it is interesting.  With OJ, I was much more invested and had followed it closely.  

I did not watch Glee, so I am not familiar with Darren Criss.  But I found his performance compelling.   I am looking forward to the rest of the episodes.

[Gobi]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:06 PM, Cara said:

Exactly, I think they went a little overboard with having him not get the meaning of the word partner. But not quite understanding about them bringing in outside sex partners made sense. I think a lot people then and now would find that bizarre.

I got the vibe of a cop deliberately provoking a possible suspect. At that point, while they may have known Cunanan's name, the police wouldn't have known much else. Was this an inside job? Did the partner work with the shooter? Would the partner benefit from Versace's death? When the cop asked if the killer could have been one of the outsiders that was brought there, the partner didn't answer, which would raise some suspicions. Just saying, I think there's more than one way to read that scene.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, starri said:

The Versace story really got eclipsed when Princess Di died six weeks later.

It got brought up again because his funeral was where Diana and Elton John reconciled. Man, the summer of 1989 was strange.

[Roccos Brother]

Casting Penelope Cruz was a huge compliment to Donatella. I know this sounds terrible, but I remember seeing a picture of Donatella in my early teens, and thinking she had one of the most physically unattractive faces I had ever seen. 

[Robert Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Roccos Brother said:

Casting Penelope Cruz was a huge compliment to Donatella. I know this sounds terrible, but I remember seeing a picture of Donatella in my early teens, and thinking she had one of the most physically unattractive faces I had ever seen. 

And the plastic surgery did her no favors. Now, she looks like Janice from The Muppets.

[truthaboutluv]

10 hours ago, Gobi said:

I got the vibe of a cop deliberately provoking a possible suspect. At that point, while they may have known Cunanan's name, the police wouldn't have known much else. Was this an inside job? Did the partner work with the shooter? Would the partner benefit from Versace's death? When the cop asked if the killer could have been one of the outsiders that was brought there, the partner didn't answer, which would raise some suspicions. Just saying, I think there's more than one way to read that scene.

Gianni's partner did answer about the possibility of the shooter being one of the guys they'd brought to the house and immediately told the detective he'd give him all the names he knew. The detective asking about their engaging with other men wasn't what was out of bounds. Because yes, in a murder investigation, one of the best places to start is by looking at the victim's life and the people that were in it. It's the way he asked the questions and how long he kept harping on their having sex with other guys and asking what then made Gianni's partner his partner and not these other men, etc. A judgement free detective would have heard about the sex with other men and put out the possibility of it being one of those and asked for their names and be done. The detective did more than that. YMMV. 

[Clanstarling]

On 1/17/2018 at 8:12 PM, SimoneS said:

I thought that this was disappointing. The casting, writing, and musical score are pedestrian, especially when I compare it to the genius that was The People v.s. OJ Simpson. And I am a huge Penelope Cruz fan. The story is also pure tabloid so far, it lacks the social and political significance of The People v.s. OJ Simpson. I will give it another episode to see if they can step up their game. 

I didn't care for the first episode of the OJ season. At the start I didn't like most of the main character actors (and Travolta was particularly egregious). Partly because I was very familiar with almost all of the people depicted. I gave it another try after it was on Netflix, and changed my mind completely. Loved the season, and the actors I'd previously dismissed. So I'm more than willing to give this a chance, especially since I actually liked this episode better.

[JakeyJokes]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It got brought up again because his funeral was where Diana and Elton John reconciled. Man, the summer of 1989 was strange.

1997 ?

I remember my dad was gonna let us stay up to watch the SNL rerun because The Spice Girls were the musical guest and my brother and I stayed up all night watching coverage of Princess Diana's death instead.

[Bama]

Yeah, the summer of 1997 is indelibly burned on my psyche due to a weird coincidental series of personal episodes that are linked with some of these historical events.

I found out I was pregnant with my first child on the day Versace was murdered.

I miscarried 3 days before Diana's death so I spent my recuperation wrapped up in the coverage of her death.

Diana's funeral was my 25th birthday.

Needless to say, I have some very weird emotions wrapped up in the events of that summer, particularly Versace's murder and Diana's death.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

1997 ?

D'oh! I don't know how that typo happened. LOL.

[Nessie]

On 1/20/2018 at 9:06 PM, J-Man said:

Can someone please educate the voiceover announcer on how to pronounce "Gianni?" You never pronounce the "i" after a "g" or a "c" in Italian -- they're only there to change the sound of the preceding consonant. So it's not gee-AH-nee, it's JAH-nee. Two syllables, not three. Most of the characters in the actual program got it right.

This was driving me CRAZY!  Every time I would talk back to the TV JAH-NEE!  Then my son would say "mom, you know they can't hear you, right?" and I'd say "obviously, or they'd be getting it right by now..."  I mean, it's not that hard...

On 1/21/2018 at 10:30 AM, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, I KNOW. It drives me absolutely batty that the forking FX announcer gets it wrong. How did no one correct that?

For some reason, a lot of American's don't seem to notice the difference (well...American's and my Scottish mother).  They have the same problem with Giada De Laurentiis's name.

Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it because I have a French name that was often mispronounced when I was growing up (although it's more common now).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Versace was murdered, I was living in San Diego which has a pretty sizable Filipino community. One person said that her cousin's family got a visit from the police because the cousin was named Andrew Cunanan. The family brought out little one year old Andrew and assured the police that this baby couldn't even walk yet, let alone travel to Florida to kill someone.

Okay, I'm willing to go along with the interpretation that Andrew Cunanan's date with Gianni Versace was all a fantasy in his head. That would help explain why the San Francisco War Memorial Opera House shown here looked nothing like the real one. If you've ever seen Pretty Woman, you know what the real one looks like. The box seats are not red and tiered down like that. The ceiling in the lobby is also different from what they showed. As for that scene which allegedly took place at the UC Berkeley campus, nope.

While I'm nitpicking, none of the Italian accents sounded very Italian to me.

In her younger days aka before all the plastic surgery/botox/fillers, Donatella had a pretty standard Italian accent when speaking English (with a slight sibilance with her S sounds), which was not difficult to understand (at least not to my ears). You can hear her speaking briefly at the 3:20 mark in this video:

 

She is MUCH harder to understand now, which I assume is due in no small part to how huge her lips are these days.

On 1/20/2018 at 6:06 PM, J-Man said:

Can someone please educate the voiceover announcer on how to pronounce "Gianni?" You never pronounce the "i" after a "g" or a "c" in Italian -- they're only there to change the sound of the preceding consonant. So it's not gee-AH-nee, it's JAH-nee. Two syllables, not three. Most of the characters in the actual program got it right.

 

On 1/22/2018 at 8:17 PM, Nessie said:

This was driving me CRAZY!  Every time I would talk back to the TV JAH-NEE!  Then my son would say "mom, you know they can't hear you, right?" and I'd say "obviously, or they'd be getting it right by now..."  I mean, it's not that hard...

For some reason, a lot of American's don't seem to notice the difference (well...American's and my Scottish mother).  They have the same problem with Giada De Laurentiis's name.

Maybe I'm just more sensitive to it because I have a French name that was often mispronounced when I was growing up (although it's more common now).

YEEEEEEEESSSSS! This drives me crazy! I always felt bad for Giada because several times when I saw her do holiday programs with other Food Network people, many of them kept saying "gee-ah-da." If I were her, I would have said, "CUT!!! Everyone needs to learn how to pronounce my name correctly before we film this for real!"

I'm still undecided on Darren Criss, but I do find it creepy that I watched this episode the same night that I watched last week's Grey's Anatomy where Mr. Schue also played a charming but crazy abusive guy. I'm all for actors finding roles that are very different from what they're known for, but I felt like tonight was Glee character assassination night.

Edited January 24, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo
Noticed a typo