S35.E10: Two for the Price of One

[cooksdelight]

50 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't think Mike is actually a doctor; I think he's an escaped bubble boy.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Funniest thing I’ve read in days!!

[ProfCrash]

For all the rewards, Joe lost 15 pounds and JP lost 22 pounds. Just saying. Most of that food goes in one end and out the other.

[piequinn35]

3 hours ago, valandsend said:

What happened to J.P.'s hair? On the island, it was thick and wavy. Looks like he got it cut after getting voted off, but did he have it straightened as well?

So, we didn't get a final confessional from J.P., but we also didn't get to see who voted for whom. Anybody know?

Skinhead, my husband is like him curly hair gets thicker as time goes by and when he decides to have a skinhead, it will change his look, funny.

fake alliance of 5-JP,  JP,Ryan,Ben secret agent-Mike,  Chrissy-Joe

He hope they stay further in the game than he will, lol JP JP JP it's impossible for them not to, you're already out.

JP's final words:

Edited November 30, 2017 by piequinn35

[amazingracefan]

I would have loved Ben going the second vote, though it did seem too good to be true. Him playing it like he was in trouble only to find out he was actually in trouble would have been funny.

Finally switching up the immunity challenge with something different, they should do that more often.

One thing I didn't like, allowing people to look at what others were doing in the puzzle. It looked like they were told they had to put them all on the pole and then adjust so no chance to hide anything.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Oh, man...I loved watcing Chrissy take a comfortable, relaxed seat next to Lauren, all prepared to have a nice, friendly strategy discussion, while Lauren looked at her like, "I'm sorry, and you are....?"  And kudos to Mike as well for coming right out and telling Ryan "thanks, but no thanks."  Loved it.

The Lauren scenario makes sense, because Lauren is on the top and controlling things and Chrissy is on the bottom and admitted straight up that she's desperate.

The Mike scenario though?  As other people like I believe @KimberStormer pointed out, in the game of Survivor this makes no sense and is quite dumb.  Mike should throw stubbornness out the window.  This is a game for 1 million dollars.  Of course he should team up with Ryan.  Why shouldn't he?  It's beneficial to him, and it's beneficial to Ryan.  It's a win-win compromise.  He shuns Ryan because he thinks he's on top?  He's absolutely not and not even close.  It was really sad.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[amazingracefan]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

He's been talking like that for a few years, but not consistently. "Let's get it AWWWN." "I hear ya', brotha," "burgers with cheeeeese." It's irritating but I've gotten used to it. I was terrified, however, by that weird commercial where his face popped up all Blair Witch Style, and he screamed that he was watching Survivor with me.

He really has been doing it for a few years (surprised someone here hasn't noticed that), the let's get it awwwn is like he's putting on some heavy southern accent.  Maybe a season recently he didn't do it (from what I remember), but that was the exception he normally does these days. 

 

One thing I notice with speech is with Lauren, she seems to flatten out her southern speech on some words, which makes it sound funny like she's trying to sound more 'posh' in her pronunciation.  It's probably just a certain self-consciousness about her accent, but to me it seems very noticeable.

Edited November 30, 2017 by amazingracefan

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think Jeff feels goofy because now with Twitter and stuff, everyone on there, (like me) loves to make fun of him and how he says the same things every episode.  Wanna know what you're playing for?  And Come on in Guys!  Now that I've noticed it I can't stop noticing it and everyone must mock him online.  So he feels silly.  This is my guess.

My brother pointed out these catchphrases to me.  I swear for 20 seasons I didn't notice "Come on in Guys!"  Now it's like the glass has shattered.  It's all I can focus on.  Why does he always say that and why always with the same inflection?

Edited November 30, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Sentient Meat]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

and this bothers me so much.  I know we always get into the debate in suffer vs. not suffer, who had what when, but i think for a good chunk of the series, from say Seasons 4 to basically 19-22?  - it's been pretty much fend for yourself, and we'll toss you a couple of bones, but it really seems that the "surviving" aspect is gone. and it might be because people don't want to suffer.  but i am not enjoying the big brother-ness. 

Yeah, I don't want people to be in danger of starvation... in some of the earliest seasons it seemed like they actually were... but all the drama such as players sabotaging the rice is mostly gone, because you can just win a reward challenge in a couple days.  This season seems especially generous... I remember when they were glad to have an eating challenge just to get protein.  And the food auction was a big deal!

[KimberStormer]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

And what is with Probst's weird manner of talking this season?  "Let's get it AWWWN.  Key laaaaam and pecan piaaaaah."  He's been doing it all season.  It's weird and I need him to stop.

 

1 hour ago, survivinmt said:

Why does Jeff have to say the same catch-phrases EVERY episode. Is CBS or Burnett worried that some poor one-time watcher is going to tune in for one Challenge and NOT hear "Wanna know whatcher playin for?" and indignantly change the channel? Its pretty ridiculous. It makes him seem stupid and now he seems to be making fun of himself. Haha what a great performing monkey I am!

Even in the first episode I was saying:

 

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:56 PM, KimberStormer said:

Jeff seemed like he could barely remember his lines to me.  "Shit I forgot to show you the idols, here, they're what you...covet, right, this is what you covet."  "Oh yeah, uh, fire represents your time or something, can we get on with this."  Of all the times I've complained about Probst, he's never seemed to me like he was in it for the paycheck before (he may or may not actually understand the show he's on, but he certainly loves it), but there was definitely something off about him this time.  I wonder if he was not feeling the cast, or if he was sick, or something.

My guess is @survivinmt has it and he's just really sick of saying this stuff and is showing his displeasure through self-parody?  He does do the "get it AWWNNN" thing sometimes but before it was like, "I'm having fun pretending to be a bad sportscaster" and now it's like "FML I don't want to say this anymore."  I wonder what was going on in Jeff Probst's life during this season.  Like Winona said in Heathers, "If you were happy every day of your life you wouldn't be a human, you'd be a game show host."  But even game show hosts are human, I guess.  Maybe Jeff is feeling down for some un-Survivor-related reason, and it's making his role on the show feel empty and meaningless?  Is that why he's been pushing the "WE'RE GROWING AS PEOPLE THANKS TO THIS TRIBAL COUNCIL" thing so hard this season?

[ProfCrash]

7 minutes ago, Sentient Meat said:

Yeah, I don't want people to be in danger of starvation... in some of the earliest seasons it seemed like they actually were... but all the drama such as players sabotaging the rice is mostly gone, because you can just win a reward challenge in a couple days.  This season seems especially generous... I remember when they were glad to have an eating challenge just to get protein.  And the food auction was a big deal!

I suspect the food auction would still be a big deal. They all get jazzed about winning the food awards and do their best to stuff themselves when they are on them because they are hungry. In one of his exit interviews, Cole said that it had been two days since they had eaten. The food at the rewards is needed and rarely remains in them long enough to really help them out. JP lost 22 pounds and Joe lost a good amount, I can't remember the exact amount. They are losing weight out there. Cole passed out because of the food deprivation.

The options that TPTB have is return to the days of people having such little food that they are losing hair and are totally listless, making for awful TV, or provide enough food in rewards that the contestants have some energy and don't look like they are going to die on day 39.

[amazingracefan]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Likewise, Joe and Mike were getting a bit too cocky about this new "alliance", so it was kind of fun to see Joe booted. I don't know if it was the right move, but they were dumb for thinking this was some tight bond and that they weren't just being used for their votes. But yea, I might have kept them around for one more vote - gotten out Chrissy or Ryan. 

Even though I like Ben, I respected Ashley and Lauren for realizing they might need to cut him loose to even the playing field. But I do think it was probably too soon. That would leave it 3-2-2 in reality. Too much chance of the coconuts swinging back over to Ryan and Chrissy. Too much chance. Better keep 4 strong for another vote. But still......I think a different vote would have been smarter.

Well the look on Joe's face after Chrissy won the immunity suggested he very much knew he was in danger, so to say that him and Mike were cocky I think is overthinking it, or maybe some want to think that.  I think it was understood that Mike was in a better position than Joe, by everyone including Mike.  But for the game there is an argument that Ben is a much bigger threat to win than Joe.  Ben hated Joe so he wanted him gone, I think he even punched the air after the vote, but I doubt Joe could win.  The likelihood of Joe teaming up with Chrissy (or vice-versa) was always minimal. 

[Wandering Snark]

20 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

But even game show hosts are human, I guess.  Maybe Jeff is feeling down for some un-Survivor-related reason, and it's making his role on the show feel empty and meaningless?  Is that why he's been pushing the "WE'RE GROWING AS PEOPLE THANKS TO THIS TRIBAL COUNCIL" thing so hard this season?

I chalk it up to his missing/pining for the days he had a talk show and felt people actually listened/cared about what he was saying. It peaks out occasionally during tribal especially with his wide-eyed revelation that tribal council is "deep".

Non-related note, I always say that alliances breaking up is like people cheating in relationships. If they've cheated once they are bound to do it again, so don't believe they won't do it again just because YOU are the one they cheated with! People are always surprised when an alliance turns on them after they've turned on a previous alliance.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I tend to think that Lauren, Ben, Ashley and Devon moved too soon. They had the numbers in the alliance of 7 and left in two players that are playing hard. The four could have easily voted out Mike and Joe, giving the appearance of the 7 strong alliance, and then taken out Chrissy, Ryan and JP.

That said, Why the hell did they vote out JP? I mean, seriously? He has not won individual immunity. He is not a challenge beast. He is not a strategic beast. So why JP? That was a crappy decision. They should have voted out Chrissy, she is a stronger competitor then Ryan physically and in terms of smarts. She is the bigger threat.

I tend to agree they moved too soon. I mean, blindsides always make good TV, but I don't really see the logic behind it, other than trying to make a big move, and ultimately, showing your hand. The reasoning seemed to be "we have to put these three (Ryan, Chrissy and JP) in their place and show them who's boss!" Well, it's nice that you took control, but it seems like their egos were dictating this move more than anything else, because they didn't like Ryan and Chrissy thinking they were in charge.

I can, however, see the reasoning behind choosing JP over Chrissy or Ryan. He's ultimately the greatest challenge threat based on physical strength, and they knew it would prompt Ryan to play his idol the next time, once he realized he was on the outs.

The mistake Ryan and Chrissy (and JP, I suppose) made was not beating Lauren to the punch. Once they saw who she picked for her reward, the three of them should have realized they were the bottom three, and immediately moved to team up with Mike and Joe. I'm fairly certain Joe would have jumped at the chance to vote out Ben and Mike would have gone along with them. Lauren approaching them afterwards probably wouldn't have worked. So, in the end, I guess Ryan and Chrissy got what was coming to them for not seeing the writing on the wall, and being too comfortable/arrogant. 

[Daisy]

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Jeff feels goofy because now with Twitter and stuff, everyone on there, (like me) loves to make fun of him and how he says the same things every episode.  Wanna know what you're playing for?  And Come on in Guys!  Now that I've noticed it I can't stop noticing it and everyone must mock him online.  So he feels silly.  This is my guess.

My brother pointed out these catchphrases to me.  I swear for 20 seasons I didn't notice "Come on in Guys!"  Now it's like the glass has shattered.  It's all I can focus on.  Why does he always say that and why always with the same inflection?

I always figured Come on In guys was just to indicate that the crew had finished setting things up. now it's just a staple. lol
I still wait for the day when he goes "do you wanna know what you're playing for" and someone goes, no not really Jeff. 

[meep.meep]

13 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Ben, Ashley, Devon aka BAD ?

 

yabbut   Ben, Ashley, Lauren, Devon = BALD

Did Lauren play her second vote?  How long can she hold onto it?

Chrissy is one of the most entitled smug players in years.  Loved Lauren shutting her down.

[piequinn35]

Just now, meep.meep said:

yabbut   Ben, Ashley, Lauren, Devon = BALD

Did Lauren play her second vote?  How long can she hold onto it?

Chrissy is one of the most entitled smug players in years.  Loved Lauren shutting her down.

lol, Lauren didn't, she can use it til final 6.

[kimbrchick]

The way I see it is that Devon, Ashley, and Ben got lucky that Lauren picked them. I see them in a good position now but it's really not a product of something they did and they shouldn't get too cocky. I'm really rooting for Lauren. She's doing great in challenges and is making power plays so I hope she isn't blindsided. I'd love to see her win the whole thing. I'm so ready for Crissy to be gone. She just annoys me and it bugs me that she was on the heroes tribe.

I forgot to add that the funniest line was from Ryan when he said he's doing so bad he can't even win a veggie wrap.

Also, that peanut butter and chocolate basket looked like heaven.

Edited November 30, 2017 by kimbrchick

[ljenkins782]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I tend to agree they moved too soon. I mean, blindsides always make good TV, but I don't really see the logic behind it, other than trying to make a big move, and ultimately, showing your hand. The reasoning seemed to be "we have to put these three (Ryan, Chrissy and JP) in their place and show them who's boss!" Well, it's nice that you took control, but it seems like their egos were dictating this move more than anything else, because they didn't like Ryan and Chrissy thinking they were in charge.

I can, however, see the reasoning behind choosing JP over Chrissy or Ryan. He's ultimately the greatest challenge threat based on physical strength, and they knew it would prompt Ryan to play his idol the next time, once he realized he was on the outs.

The mistake Ryan and Chrissy (and JP, I suppose) made was not beating Lauren to the punch. Once they saw who she picked for her reward, the three of them should have realized they were the bottom three, and immediately moved to team up with Mike and Joe. I'm fairly certain Joe would have jumped at the chance to vote out Ben and Mike would have gone along with them. Lauren approaching them afterwards probably wouldn't have worked. So, in the end, I guess Ryan and Chrissy got what was coming to them for not seeing the writing on the wall, and being too comfortable/arrogant. 

I don't think Lauren's reward companion choices would have tipped Chrissy and Ryan off to that degree, it's not like she was a close alliance mate or friend with either of them. She's been on the fringes for awhile, so she had more freedom to pick whoever she wanted and the fact that she left the known pariahs behind could have indicated to Ryan/Chrissy/JP that she wasn't trying to pull the bottom-dwellers over to her side. 

But they probably should have been more curious about how the reward went, particularly since Ryan still thought Devon was a close ally of his. There was nothing stopping him from trying to get him aside for a chat about whether or not any strategy was discussed. Not that Devon would have told him anything useful, but it was worth the effort (and perhaps he did, but it wasn't shown). 

Chrissy also should have been able to shelve her personal feelings toward Joe (and now Mike) in order to consider possibilities of how they could be used as swing votes, but it seems like she shut the door on them as soon as they pissed her off.

On a general note, does anyone know why the Healers became the Pagong du Jour as soon as the tribes were shuffled? Were there more of them left? It seemed like even after the numbers had evened, the Healers had this permanent target on their backs, but I can't remember what started it all. 

[watch2much]

14 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

The first hour was a really good episode. I loved seeing Lauren picking the people for her reward as strategy to break up the alliance of 7. Seeing JP get voted off was good, but I would have rather seen Ryan or Chrissy go.

As for the second hour, it was still excellent seeing Lauren making all of these moves and is basically running things as Devon and Ashley think they are. Joe getting voted off was just meh to me. Joe became a favorite of mine, so I didn't like to see him go.

 

agree totally.  Ryan and Chrissy are far more dangerous.

Lauren will be well served by Devon and Ashley's egos.  Maybe it will keep the heat off her.  She was really smart to lay back until she got further in the game to start strategizing with people.  She observed for a long time before making a move.  

[NeverLate]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

For all the rewards, Joe lost 15 pounds and JP lost 22 pounds. Just saying. Most of that food goes in one end and out the other.

JP lost that much! Yikes...

[watch2much]

I'm always amazed at how much hubris plays a part in this game.  It appears Ryan and Chrissy (at least in what we saw) were so sure of their power they didn't even feel it necessary to engage other players when approached.  There are ways of saying no without totally alienating the person. Their smugness leaped from the screen. I don't remember them saying anything nice about any of the players, even the ones in their alliance.  They were just numbers. They totally forgot about the social aspect of the game. They were always so smug.  In contrast, Lauren proposed a plan explaining they'd have to put aside their personal feelings about Joe in the short term for her plan to work.   and she managed to eventually vote Joe out, without apparently hard feelings from him.

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Jeff feels goofy because now with Twitter and stuff, everyone on there, (like me) loves to make fun of him and how he says the same things every episode.  Wanna know what you're playing for?  And Come on in Guys!  Now that I've noticed it I can't stop noticing it and everyone must mock him online.  So he feels silly.  This is my guess.

My brother pointed out these catchphrases to me.  I swear for 20 seasons I didn't notice "Come on in Guys!"  Now it's like the glass has shattered.  It's all I can focus on.  Why does he always say that and why always with the same inflection?

I love Jeff, to me what he says, how he says it, it's all part of the show. It's worked for over 30 seasons, they won't change it now, at least I hope they never do. He knows the cast, he sees and hears much more than the viewer. I've had a crush on him since season one, now it's just a healthy respect. I don't like Chrissy that much, but kudos to her for saying this game kicks you in the butt! It does, and that gal waited 16 years to have her dream come true! Amazing..

[Apocalypso]

Was that the first Survivor swing?  Watch out for those nails!

I thought it was noticeable that 3 out of the 4 that went on Lauren's Reward also felt comfortable sitting out the IC.  I would have expected that to put somebody on alert.  (Perhaps it did, but no one mentioned it.)

I found Joe insufferable when he thought he was on top, but he handled adversity much better, went out like a good sport, and to my surprise I wish it had been Mike this time.

[NeverLate]

4 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I'm always amazed at how much hubris plays a part in this game.  It appears Ryan and Chrissy (at least in what we saw) were so sure of their power they didn't even feel it necessary to engage other players when approached.  There are ways of saying no without totally alienating the person. Their smugness leaped from the screen. I don't remember them saying anything nice about any of the players, even the ones in their alliance.  They were just numbers. They totally forgot about the social aspect of the game. They were always so smug.  In contrast, Lauren proposed a plan explaining they'd have to put aside their personal feelings about Joe in the short term for her plan to work.   and she managed to eventually vote Joe out, without apparently hard feelings from him.

Which is why she would get his vote, over say , Ben. 

[survivinmt]

I don't DISlike Jeff Probst. I just think he and we would be happier if he got some freedom to change it up a little. I am not saying he should never say those things again - just could sprinkle the game with some fresh patter.

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Which is exactly how you have to be to win this game. So far, she’s the smartest player out there.

I agree. For instance, she's close with Ben and I imagine she really likes him. But she knows she may have to cut him loose to improve her standing. It's not personal, it's a game. 

The problem is when OTHER players don't feel the same way. 

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I didn't post that, I'm not sure why it's showing up as my quote, but to answer your question, she did say she was going to use the 2nd vote, but I think it was in the context of convincing Joe and Mike to vote with them. I don't think she was truly promising to use it (in the sense that her alliance expected her to use it), I think that was just the story they were feeding Joe and Mike to keep them calm about plans going their way as long as those guys voted along with them. 

Yea, they were just using her extra vote as leverage with the Coconuts. No one else was under the impression that she was going to use it last night. She didn't need to. And now that Joe is gone, it doesn't really matter if Mike knew he was being played or not. 

[green]

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

...

Ben dropped his act? I didn't see that. He celebrated Joe leaving, which made perfect sense for someone who is still (supposedly) in the Chrissy/Ryan alliance, plus he and Joe hated each other, so it was probably genuine happiness to see the back of Joe. 

Ben didn't vote for Ashley like Chrissy and Ryan did.  The jig is totally up on his spy game at this point.

3 hours ago, Sentient Meat said:

This season has had so many reward challenges, they might as well start calling the game Outdoor Big Brother.  All of the old school Survivor aspect seems to have gone... maybe they needed to do this because it was getting harder for them to cast who they wanted... but the danger of any real hardship seems to be gone this year.

 

Could not agree more.

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

For all the rewards, Joe lost 15 pounds and JP lost 22 pounds. Just saying. Most of that food goes in one end and out the other.

... and ...

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

The options that TPTB have is return to the days of people having such little food that they are losing hair and are totally listless, making for awful TV, or provide enough food in rewards that the contestants have some energy and don't look like they are going to die on day 39.

I'll take the former option.  The people that lost some hair survived in the end and it did make for good TV in that Survivor did seem about actual surviving.  And they could have tweaked it so it didn't get to hair falling out levels but no they had to ruin it instead. 

Who cares if these guys lose weight after they chow down.  Better to lose weight the old fashioned way instead of showing them stuffing their face each and every episode.  It is about perception.  Show the weight lose due to hardship and not bowels being cleaned out by rich foods.

In other words allow the audience the voluntary suspension of belief enough to imagine shipwrecked survivors on a tropical isle.  You know, the romantic storytelling kind.  Survivor is an escapist show along with a hard fought game of intrigue and backstabbing.   We need the island to be one where you scale trees to get coconuts and fish and scavenge and ration your one bag of rice you saved from your ship before it went down on the hidden reef.  Not the kind that comes equipped with Outback Steakhouses, fancy yachts and massage parlors.

33 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

...

On a general note, does anyone know why the Healers became the Pagong du Jour as soon as the tribes were shuffled? Were there more of them left? It seemed like even after the numbers had evened, the Healers had this permanent target on their backs, but I can't remember what started it all. 

Yes not one single Healer had gone as yet at the merge and seemed totally in control of the game because they thought Lauren and Ben had been recruited to their side as well.  The only way to stop it was to have Ben and Lauren join their fellow Heroes and Hustlers and take out the Healers.  Which was what the alliance of seven was all about.  Thus The Seven decided to band together to Pagong the would be pagongers.  Until, you know, cracks happened.

I'm fine with Lauren winning and agree with a poster on the first page that mentioned that if this was a fictional show a writer would never write Lauren like that.  Smart people have to be sophisticated, upscale thin people who are younger and, with women, usually blonde.  Not hard working, normal sized people.  It's a relief not to have to put up with those stereotypes.

I still like Ryan and Chrissy and will miss Joe but I like Lauren too. I just don't like Ben and he seems to be getting the winning edit with Lauren the runner-up.  Damn.  (Devon and Ashley got the "too confident and full of themselves" edit tonight so don't see them winning).

Edited November 30, 2017 by green

[azshadowwalker]

Great week. Didn't care about JP, but his ouster kicked Chrissy and Ryan in the pants enough to get them moving. Joe is gone. Chrissy survived. I felt like my team won on a last-second TD when Chrissy took immunity, literally jumping up and saying, "Yes!" Great episode! 

Edited November 30, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The Mike scenario though?  As other people like I believe @KimberStormer pointed out, in the game of Survivor this makes no sense and is quite dumb.  Mike should throw stubbornness out the window.  This is a game for 1 million dollars.  Of course he should team up with Ryan.  Why shouldn't he?  It's beneficial to him, and it's beneficial to Ryan.  It's a win-win compromise.  He shuns Ryan because he thinks he's on top?  He's absolutely not and not even close.  It was really sad

I gotta agree with this. On a petty level, it was fun to watch Mike tell Ryan "too fucking late, bro". But.....thinking strategically, it was pretty dumb. Mike's main problem this entire game has been hubris, though. I don't know why he thought he was suddenly in an elevated position when there's only 2 of them to 3 (that they know of) of the other guys they're voting with. 

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I tend to agree they moved too soon. I mean, blindsides always make good TV, but I don't really see the logic behind it, other than trying to make a big move, and ultimately, showing your hand. The reasoning seemed to be "we have to put these three (Ryan, Chrissy and JP) in their place and show them who's boss!" Well, it's nice that you took control, but it seems like their egos were dictating this move more than anything else, because they didn't like Ryan and Chrissy thinking they were in charge.

I can, however, see the reasoning behind choosing JP over Chrissy or Ryan. He's ultimately the greatest challenge threat based on physical strength, and they knew it would prompt Ryan to play his idol the next time, once he realized he was on the outs.

JP may be a challenge threat (but, has he won II?), but is he a likely win at the end? He's basically been a stone cold statue, hasn't really strategized from what we've seen. I guess it depends on the jury. Are they going to vote likeable or earned it. But I might feel more comfortable sitting next to JP vs. Ryan and Chrissy who have called shots and found Idols, etc. Plus, of the three, Ryan and Chrissy are SUPER tight. I'd rather have Ryan and JP or JP and Chrissy left in the game than Ryan/Chrissy. 

[Sentient Meat]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I suspect the food auction would still be a big deal. They all get jazzed about winning the food awards and do their best to stuff themselves when they are on them because they are hungry. In one of his exit interviews, Cole said that it had been two days since they had eaten. The food at the rewards is needed and rarely remains in them long enough to really help them out. JP lost 22 pounds and Joe lost a good amount, I can't remember the exact amount. They are losing weight out there. Cole passed out because of the food deprivation.

The options that TPTB have is return to the days of people having such little food that they are losing hair and are totally listless, making for awful TV, or provide enough food in rewards that the contestants have some energy and don't look like they are going to die on day 39.

I'd say the best way would be for them always to have a native form of nutrition, such as the coconuts or mussels... or fish nearby.  That way it still keeps within the spirit of the show without putting them in danger.

But having this parade of product placement feasts... Outback was one if I remember... makes it feel more like Big Brother in Paradise.  Which is fine with me... I'm a fan of big brother... but they shouldn't call it Survivor anymore.

[amazingracefan]

The funny thing with the slogans is some other versions take all that on as well, with the different hosts mimicking Probst with slogans and gestures.  The Australian presenter at least tried to say idol 'in play' rather than up for grabs the first season, but the second year he reverted to the standard 'up for grabs'.

[MissEwa]

3 hours ago, Sentient Meat said:

This season has had so many reward challenges, they might as well start calling the game Outdoor Big Brother. 

There's one per episode, which has pretty much been the standard since the beginning, aside from sometimes early on in a season when it feels like they're cut for time and when they're wasting time on much more terrible things like redemption island duels. Maybe the rewards are bigger now but there was a RC every episode (merge and F4/3 aside) in Borneo, and I feel like the seasons where they have cut back on them there has been a lot of complaining. I guess they'll never please everyone.

This episode...

FINALLY something happened that was worth watching. Although I'm a little annoyed they didn't vote out Ryan, I do sort of get why they went the safe option. Lauren is great, and I know he's getting a little full of himself but for some reason I find Devon kind of endearing. He's got a lot of bonehead goofball about him but he is pretty clued in, I think. And I feel like the double-agent strategy is a new thing so good on him for coming up with that. 

Ashley is growing on me too. Yeah, I don't think she's as in control as she thinks she is but she's come into her own a little since the merge. Although I found the angle they chose to shoot her from for most of that immunity challenge kind of wrong. I'm not a prude but nobody's crotch needs that much screen time. 

I'm wondering if they were told they had to put the letters up on the ladder thing in the second IC and THEN start solving the puzzle - it seemed like a waste of time and made it harder to manipulate them and then once they figured it out it was a lot of double and triple handling. I'd have put them all on the ground and worked it out there, then put them up in order, which also makes it harder for anyone to see what you're doing until you've mostly done it.  

Ryan and Chrissy remain terrible, in my books. They were terrible when they thought they were in control but their attitude playing from the bottom is worse, if anything. Like they just assumed they were owed a free ride to F3 and now they have to work for it they're bitter. 

[tvfanatic13]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm still curious about what the one under the bandage is, on his right shoulder.  What are they hiding?

I am curious as well, but why couldn't they have put a big-ass bandage over the ugly tattoo on Joe's arm.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Jeff feels goofy because now with Twitter and stuff, everyone on there, (like me) loves to make fun of him and how he says the same things every episode.  Wanna know what you're playing for?  And Come on in Guys!  Now that I've noticed it I can't stop noticing it and everyone must mock him online.  So he feels silly.  This is my guess.

My brother pointed out these catchphrases to me.  I swear for 20 seasons I didn't notice "Come on in Guys!"  Now it's like the glass has shattered.  It's all I can focus on.  Why does he always say that and why always with the same inflection?

And always looking down into the sand...

[piequinn35]

JP's exit interviews:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivor-jp-hilsabeck-exit-interview-1063113

http://xfn-blogs.xfinity.com/tv/2017/11/30/survivor-castaway-jp-id-probably-shake-things-little-bit/

Joe's RHAP interview:

http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2017-exit-interview-joe-mena-voted-out-2017/

https://parade.com/625060/mikebloom/survivor-heroes-v-healers-v-hustlers-joe-mena-on-bogo-coco-and-braggadocio/

[jaync]

Three consecutive ICs won by three different women - is that a first?

Was Ben still on the reward when he found the II? It seemed a little odd that he just happened to be in that area (taking a dump, maybe?), and the clue just happened to be there.

[Special K]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

I always figured Come on In guys was just to indicate that the crew had finished setting things up. now it's just a staple. lol
I still wait for the day when he goes "do you wanna know what you're playing for" and someone goes, no not really Jeff. 

This kind of thing is a Mark Burnett special -- the rituals, procedures, mantras, terminology, etc., are what make the show what it is, they're the mythology, part of the show's "universe" if you will.  That's why every other reality show has copied it ("Please pack your knives and go" being perhaps the most cumbersome example).

Being a non-religious person who nevertheless appreciates rituals, I like all that stuff.

[Sentient Meat]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm still curious about what the one under the bandage is, on his right shoulder.  What are they hiding?

In big brother, they would cover tattoos if it had someone's likeness or some sort of copyright violation like a band's logo or lyrics

[HurricaneVal]

I'm amused by how they always tried to film Joe from his right side, so you could see the pretty flower tattoo, and not from the left side where you can see his creepy ass baby face tattoo.    Seriously, that thing is cree. pee.

I don't like obnoxious manufactured character Mike who is trying way too hard and is not as strategic as he likes to think.  But regular Mike?  I kind of like him, and I can see where he truly is a healer.  That Mike works hard to share even his pathetic catch with his fellow tribemates.   That Mike busts into immediate doctor action when one of his tribemates passes out.  That Mike recognizes that Chrissy is acting oddly and goes to check on her and offers his compassion and moral support, even though he doesn't really like her.  I like that Mike.

Lauren is really coming on, and I am happy about that.  I had her pegged as an early boot for this season because of her gender, age, and seemingly "clashy" personality.  I'm glad I was wrong and that she's navigated the shoals of Survivor play very, very well.   If she gets to the end, she'll be able to argue that she did indeed Outwit, Outlast, and Outplay everyone.  Speaking of Outplay, she pretty much singlehandedly pulled her team through that one reward challenge with her boatmanship, sheer strength, and determination.  If she's out solo on her fishing boat (which is the impression I've gotten) then she's had to figure out how to do this stuff on her own and it really showed in that competition.  I also had not caught that she was a single mother until she read her letter.  I wonder how old her daughter is?  I've always liked Lauren, and now she's coming on strong.  I don't think she made her move too early, I think she took proper advantage of winning that reward challenge and selecting just the right companions to scheme with while eating burgers, and she selected them in just the right order so as to allay suspicions.  Devin first, because she could say it was because he's fading away and original tribal loyalty, then Ben (who is her strongest alliance) because he's not been on a reward, thus obscuring their strong personal alliance, then Ashley who she hoped to bring in to make this new alliance because she hadn't yet been on a reward either.  She skillfully cut the three most vulnerable out of the Ryan/Chrissy alliance of 7 and made a new strong four.  I just hope it stays strong!

Devin, Devin, Devin...with all your arrogant proclamations, I thought you were getting a loser edit this week.  I'm glad it didn't happen, but you're getting a little high on your horse there, babe.  Slow your roll.

And secret mole Ben?  Dude, you had me half convinced you were playing a sooper sekrit double/triple agent game there.  I actually expected you to side with Chrissy and Ryan at Tribal and blow off Lauren.  I'm glad you didn't, but I gotta tell you, the game Devin set you up to play is not very good jury management for your end game.  Just sayin'...

[NeverLate]

22 minutes ago, jaync said:

Three consecutive ICs won by three different women - is that a first?

Was Ben still on the reward when he found the II? It seemed a little odd that he just happened to be in that area (taking a dump, maybe?), and the clue just happened to be there.

He was reading the letter from his wife...

[HurricaneVal]

But the area where they filmed him reading the letter, and then later his talking head interview isn't one we've seen them use before, right?  I know I would recognize that skinny T-Rex piece of driftwood if I'd seen it before.  So that area seemed new for production.  Perhaps that was designed so that it would be more convenient for someone to find the clue.  Maybe everybody was taken there for their post-letter talking heads, but only Ben found the clue, so only Ben's footage of that new area was used.

[Nashville]

17 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Another cautionary tale here is Ben is being a little too good in his new 'role'. It almost bit him tonight and it may actually happen next up.

Given the current numbers arrangement, popping Ben right now would be unwise.  Better to wait until reaching F6 or F5 to show Ben the door.

 

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh, one thing I was confused and surprised by.  When Devon decided to tell the 'underlings' Joe and Mike about Lauren's second vote, and she just rolled with it. I thought that would come back to bite everyone.  But I guess Devon orchestrated his plan perfectly and I guess no harm no foul because Mike is so stupid.

Given the result of the TC vote, it would be simple to tell Mike “we were lying about the extra vote to blindside Joe” - and given Mike’s readiness to assume everybody is lying to him all the time, it wouldn’t be a hard sell.  

Which would make for an entertaining double whammy when Lauren did use it....  :>

 

17 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Continuation of Ben's Emmy-award winning performance of the duped castaway.

One of those sentences you never expect to find yourself saying in real life: “Damn, that Marine is a good subtle actor.”  :j

 

17 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I was confused why Devon was so upset about other people knowing about Ryan's idol. Like, so?

When Ryan told Devon about the idol, Ryan also said Devon was the only person Ryan trusted enough to tell.  

That was incredibly significant to Devon, as evidenced by the significant backlash when Devon found out Ryan had told Ben as well; the equivalent of a fiancée finding out her 2-carat diamond engagement ring is actually cubic zirconia.

 

16 hours ago, green said:

After the vote at the second tribal both Ryan and Chrissy know the score about Ben.  Ashley only got two votes after all.  The other alliance wants to make the big move on Ben next I am sure Ryan and Chrissy would be down for it not only for their own survival but also a little revenge.

 

Excellent that Chrissy won the second immunity thus forcing Ben to reveal himself as a spy earlier than the other side wanted.

Not sure that Ben did reveal himself.  I could easily see Ben making the “From how Joe was talking I was certain I was getting 5 votes to go home, so I figured what the hell and fuck you Joe” pitch to Ryan and Chrissy, and them buying it - if for no other reason than a lack of viable alternatives.

 

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Even though I like Ben, I respected Ashley and Lauren for realizing they might need to cut him loose to even the playing field. But I do think it was probably too soon. That would leave it 3-2-2 in reality. Too much chance of the coconuts swinging back over to Ryan and Chrissy. Too much chance. Better keep 4 strong for another vote. 

Agree totally.

 

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

DON'T like it when people sit out at IC for food. They had JUST been on a food reward! Come on....

IMHO it was totally understandable.  The basic design of that comp (endurance involving total body weight focused on very small portions of foot area) is significantly biased against larger, heavier contestants in favor of smaller, lighter players; witness the drop order for validation.  I don’t fault Ben and Lauren at least for taking a pass for some PB and chocolate; by design, they wouldn’t have stood a chance of winning that comp anyway.  Personally, I thought JP was an idiot not to.

 

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

He's been talking like that for a few years, but not consistently. "Let's get it AWWWN." "I hear ya', brotha," "burgers with cheeeeese."

I just figured Jeff’s occasional accent affectations were a combined result of boredom + a few too many Duck Dynasty binge-watches.

 

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I will miss Joe though, and maybe it's just that I liked him, but I don't think he was duped so much as he didn't have any options. 

Nah, Joe was duped all the way; too comfortable in his gloat over Ben.  Swear to god, for Ben that vote must’ve been savored like the finest tiramisu.

 

23 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

JP may be a challenge threat (but, has he won II?), but is he a likely win at the end? He's basically been a stone cold statue, hasn't really strategized from what we've seen. I guess it depends on the jury. 

I figured the primary threat JP posed was after this vote, he was one of the last players standing who could easily make the “I never flipped on any of you Jury folks” argument.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't think Lauren's reward companion choices would have tipped Chrissy and Ryan off to that degree, it's not like she was a close alliance mate or friend with either of them. She's been on the fringes for awhile, so she had more freedom to pick whoever she wanted and the fact that she left the known pariahs behind could have indicated to Ryan/Chrissy/JP that she wasn't trying to pull the bottom-dwellers over to her side. 

These rewards are specifically designed to create discord within an alliance. They know damn well there's a seven-person alliance and that Lauren has to prioritize which three of them she's closest with. The fact that Jeff flat-out asked Ryan whether her choices were meaningful demonstrates the purpose of allowing her to pick three other people and show her hand, so to speak. If Ryan, Chrissy and JP didn't find any significance in the fact that none of them were chosen by her, then they're idiots. They're supposed to be fans of this show. A little paranoia is a healthy thing. Of course, it's possible they did question her choices but we weren't shown. But it's also possible they're just that over-confident. I did say I believe it's their fault - they had an opportunity to beat Lauren to the punch by recruiting Joe and Mike themselves.

Quote

I'll take the former option.  The people that lost some hair survived in the end and it did make for good TV in that Survivor did seem about actual surviving.  And they could have tweaked it so it didn't get to hair falling out levels but no they had to ruin it instead. 

Who cares if these guys lose weight after they chow down.  Better to lose weight the old fashioned way instead of showing them stuffing their face each and every episode.  It is about perception.  Show the weight lose due to hardship and not bowels being cleaned out by rich foods.

Surely there's a happy medium the show can achieve. There's really no point in setting the show on an island if they're going to reward them with hearty meals every other day, but I don't want to watch them starve to death either. What's wrong with just letting them have rice and coconuts and fish? And scaling back some of these barbecues and picnics and other elaborate spreads? I really don't enjoy watching a group of them chow down on a feast every week. It's not interesting and it's not compelling to watch.

[meep.meep]

1 hour ago, green said:

I'll take the former option.  The people that lost some hair survived in the end and it did make for good TV in that Survivor did seem about actual surviving.  And they could have tweaked it so it didn't get to hair falling out levels but no they had to ruin it instead. 

Who cares if these guys lose weight after they chow down.  Better to lose weight the old fashioned way instead of showing them stuffing their face each and every episode.  It is about perception.  Show the weight lose due to hardship and not bowels being cleaned out by rich foods.

In other words allow the audience the voluntary suspension of belief enough to imagine shipwrecked survivors on a tropical isle.  You know, the romantic storytelling kind.  Survivor is an escapist show along with a hard fought game of intrigue and backstabbing.   We need the island to be one where you scale trees to get coconuts and fish and scavenge and ration your one bag of rice you saved from your ship before it went down on the hidden reef.  Not the kind that comes equipped with Outback Steakhouses, fancy yachts and massage parlors.

 

You can't do scavenging if multiple seasons are shot in the same place.  It gets all scavenged/fished out.  Production has decided that it's cheaper/better for them to stay in the same place for several seasons in a row.  In addition to the contestants, there are a lot of production people.  I've heard over 100.  There's no game because of that.  Once the first group gets all the coconuts, it gets a lot harder to scavenge and forage in the tropics for the later groups.

Whatever happened to the rewards where they went and helped the poor villagers?  Those were great.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Devon and Ashley were totally gloating. I don't have a problem with that but it is poor game play for them. I suspect Chrissy and Ryan saw ignoring their victims as being better then gloating and being mean to them after they were voted out. The open gloating is bad sportsmanship.

I don't remember Ashley gloating to Ryan/Chrissy. In confessionals, sure, but she stayed completely quiet after that TC. Now Devon was being a real asshole and it was painful to watch.

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Interesting. I didn't think of that, you could be right. Who brought it up first, though? Ashley or Lauren? I could see Lauren just going along with it, but I can't really see any reason for her to bring it up first unless she really wanted it to happen. 

Lauren brought it up first. And I tend to think she actually meant it. Lauren must know that Ben will likely be her biggest competition in the end and she came for that money, baby!

5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

It pains me to say this, but I predict Chrissy is going to win. The tearful confessional with her mourning, "I hope I get the last laugh," made me think she's getting a Riding High - Humbled - Overcome Adversity - Profit! edit, which makes me want to barf.

I fear this is what's going to happen too. But honestly I think Ben, Lauren, Chrissy, and Devon to some extent were all given possible winner's edits in this ep, so who knows. It's kind of exciting that there appears to be so many possible winners.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So, in the end, I guess Ryan and Chrissy got what was coming to them for not seeing the writing on the wall, and being too comfortable/arrogant. 

That appears to be what's now happening to Ben (he was already half way there though), Devon, and Ashley. They think they're such hot shit now. I kinda want them to get the rude awakening that Ryan/Chrissy just got.

Edited November 30, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[lilabennet]

I don't think it matters that Ben was "outed" by not voting Ashley in the second vote.  The Four had a conversation about the secret agent thing only lasting until they had the numbers advantage anyway.  I wouldn't be surprised if Ben blabs about his acting skills at the top of the next episode.  You can't take credit for a strategy that no one realizes you were using.  Whether Chrissy and Ryan knowing about how badly Ben duped them will help or hurt his jury votes from them is another question.  Will they accept it as good game play or will they take it as a personal attack because they were made to look really stupid?  I can't decide.

 

I didn't have a problem with Devon turning on Ryan because of the hidden immunity idol.  It may seem like an overreaction, but I thought it showed a lot of social intelligence on Devon's part.  Ryan telling Ben was a signal that he was exploring options and building relationships that Devon wasn't a part of.  Devon could have trusted that his bond with Ryan was stronger than Ryan's relationship with Ben, but if Ryan wasn't truthful about one thing then how could Devon trust that he was truthful about everything else?  Plus I think that Ryan and Chrissy haven't done a very good job of hiding how strong their bond with each other is, so this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.  Ryan may claim now that he never had any intention of turning on Devon, but it is easy to say that after Devon took that possibility away from him.

[Special K]

Chrissy's attempt to cozy up to Lauren were so pathetic.  "Ryan and I have been saying how we want you to be in our final three.  We've been saying that all along, we really mean it.  What, he never told you that?"

She must think Lauren is pretty stupid.

[iMonrey]

I was sort of rooting for Devon until he said he looks at Lauren and realized "Wow, she's almost as good as me!" 

Oh, Devon. Just stand there and look pretty.

[violet and green]

Oh, boy, I loved those episodes! So much fun. I've got my show back!

Hooray, for Lauren. She was one of the very few I had any interest in/could stand from ep one. Then Ben grew on me, and then Devon and then Ashley - it's a miracle how they all came together, however brief it lasts!

So enjoyed the dumb Coconuts. Not sad Joe is gone. Wished hard, like many, they'd scarpered Ryan and his pants idol instead of the Strong and Silent One. Spewing Chrissy won that word puzzle, as soon as I saw it I thought oh, no... but what a great challenge up to that point. I loved that nifty wheelbarrow contraption part of it.

I'm still enjoying Dr Mike, the doofus. But the best moment was Chrissy, after her truly shawking loss of power! having conniptions in the shelter, calling for her smelling salts and a lavender compress, taking to her bed in full mourning - fully expected her to turn her face to the wall and announce she would now be starving herself to death... Hahahaha! Oh how the mighty are fallen. Even though I'd have rathered they got out Ryan and his idol, first vote, they've still got his idol out and I get to meanly gloat on their coming demise and interim sufferings!

[NutMeg]

Yeah, double episodes!

As I was saying earlier (yes, I'm smug), everyone is playing. It's like they're all playing a marathon. Everyone has a strategy beforehand. Some planned a flashy start, and implemented it, but some realized the terrain wasn't the best for that and held on (Ashley). Some knew their strength was in the middle, and held on until they found the right context (Lauren, Devon?). Some are still hoping for the end sprint, when they think they might shine (Mike?). But overall, despite the apparent clumsiness, they are playing, all of them, and that's what is most fascinating for me this season. Dormant players start to play the game hard! Dominant players crumble under unforseen betrayal! Who will arise the most? Who will implode the most? Let's stay tuned...

As much as I thought Ryan+idol should have been the optimal first vote, the later convo of Devon and Ryan makes me think that Devon saved Ryan. Didn't he say something like "If it wasn't for me, you'd be gone"? If I heard right, I don't think Devon pushed to keep Ryan for old times' sake, but because once his current alliance is gone, Devon could again be his closest ally. Hell has no fury like an alliance mate scorned, and Devon is going to do his best to get his revenge. Even if he doesn't realize it yet. Ben's "reveal" of Ryan's idol to Devon was a master move  and has completely changed the dynamics between D&R.

So, Devon saved Ryan, so JP was out. The new alliance could live with that. I like that they're already side-eying Ben, and NOT because he annoys them, but because he is too good at this game. Devon's idea that he plays the double-agent is a double edged sword. Either Ben gets a lot of intel that he decides or not to share with his alliance and stays in the game, and wins in all, or he's exposed as untrustworthy and/or too dangerous and is sent packing soon. Time will tell.

Lauren: best ever use of a reward challenge win. Plus I love the bottom of a seven alliance being proactive, for once. And in a masterful way (I know, I know, JP is less satisfactory than Ryan+idol, but hey, you pick your battles, you work on the numbers, and either she wanted to keep Devon happy, or she thought JP as a potential immunity threat was a more direct threat to her potential immunity wins). Also, can I say how much I love that we have Lauren this season, a bad ass, physical powerhouse, because we rarely have these, but also strategic and smart enough to wait for the right moment to strike. I love Lauren.

I'm also still liking Chrissy, and am curious to see how she manoeuvres from here on out. I knew that the second IC was hers to win if she made it far enough. She's in a tough situation, if you think about it: get close to people early, and have them be super bitter at you when they're voted out (more so if the "you" is an older female), or keep your distance and have them root against you (aka the Amanda/China situation). I've been thinking it over, and it seems like if you're an older female your best bet is to be one of the last survivors in a decimated tribe (such as Denise). Please tell me there were other times when an older female with a good game pay emerged victorious. Please.

Ryan has lost many things over this double episode and the end of the last one. His dominant position. His idol. His special bromance with Devon, which I don't think he realised he was putting in danger by telling Ben about his idol. He's frazzled, famished and now working from the bottom. I'm really curious to see whether he can stil find some game or whether he'll just fold.

I suspect Ashley has more game than we see, and that may be reason Lauren felt comfortable reaching out to her. Even if Ashley only has the game we were shown, she's still way better than that women from the blue collar tribe who was brought back, or that women in Palau who refused to see the writing on the wall, or numerous other bottoms of alliances who were convinced that somehow it would all work out for them at some stage. Plus, well, I liked her surfer pose approach to the challenge. But I'm a sucker for people who find original strategies in a challenge.

 

3 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

JP's exit interviews:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/survivor-jp-hilsabeck-exit-interview-1063113

http://xfn-blogs.xfinity.com/tv/2017/11/30/survivor-castaway-jp-id-probably-shake-things-little-bit/

Joe's RHAP interview:

http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2017-exit-interview-joe-mena-voted-out-2017/

https://parade.com/625060/mikebloom/survivor-heroes-v-healers-v-hustlers-joe-mena-on-bogo-coco-and-braggadocio/

Is there anything interesting in those? 

[GaT]

9 hours ago, valandsend said:

What happened to J.P.'s hair? On the island, it was thick and wavy. Looks like he got it cut after getting voted off, but did he have it straightened as well?

 

He didn't have access to a blow dryer & styling gel while he was playing the game.