S06.E08: Crisis on Earth-X (2)

[Guest]

Ohhhhhh. Did Bamford film his part?

[Trini]

Well, Arrow episode starts out like an Arrow episode.

Eh - these Earth-X characters are NOT compelling. Snooze.

Oliver/Felicity, snooze. But while I haven't been following Legends, I'm interested in Jax/Stein and what's going on with them. They're actually doing a fairly good job overall of catching up viewers who might not watch all the shows.

Doppelganger fight! Wait - another Eobard time remnant?

So Earth-X Oliver managed to put a ring on Earth-X Kara -- this whole subplot is so unnecessary.

The suiting up scene was fine until the slo-mo.

So are they really not going to explain how Oliver got a Kryptonite arrow??

If there's such a thing as too many stuntmen, this episode might be it.

So they never explained how the Earth-X people were moving between the two earths. Maybe, it was Dark Flash opening breaches, but they still need to explain that for people who aren't familiar with Flash mythology.

I'm glad we got some exposition, but there was too much nazis. Liked part 1 better. I hope parts 3 + 4 aren't so action-heavy.

[TDT]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

"His wife? Gross!(to Oliver) No offense." made me LOL.

 

46 minutes ago, quarks said:

So this was fun. More angsty and with fewer drunken hookups than the first part, though that said, I admit I'm kinda struggling to remember which scene happened in which episode. But still, fun. 

Good things:

 

3. Mick and Killer Frost. Everyone, we may finally have solved Caitlin's love life at last! 

 

7. "Just a quick reminder. Superspeed. I don't have it." I laughed. Even if this does seem a bit unkind to Oliver's motorcycle.

 

11. "If I had a dime for every time I thought I'd die....I'd have $2.40."  Heh. Maybe consider putting a higher price on those thoughts, Felicity.

Questionable things:

1. The Subaru commercials.  I mean, the charity aspect is nice but I'm not sure I want to buy a Subaru.

2. Uh, how did Oliver get a Kryptonite arrow? For that matter, how did he get Kryptonite? Arrow and Flash have only mentioned Bruce Wayne/Batman, not Superman, so this Earth shouldn't have Kryptonite, right? And is this really something that he carries around with his normal arrows just in case an evil Supergirl shows up?

 

4. Knocking out Cisco and sending the Legends ship back to the Stone Age, conveniently preventing Our Heroes from Tracking and Doing Things, but somehow not preventing them from creating Kryptonite arrows. Oh, shows.

9. So, Mick erased everyone's memories of the wedding excitements, allowing everyone to keep their secret identities - but surely they'll remember that something went really badly at the wedding, right? And that the Greatest American Priest is now no longer with us?

 

Bad things:

1. The Black Lightning trailers. Good grief, CW. I realize that promotion is not your thing, but you cannot seriously put those next to or near the Star Wars trailers and expect us to tune into Black Lightning - and I want to see Black Lightning! I'm your target audience, watching your major crossover episodes! PROMO ME.

"Why do you have a Kryptonite arrow??"

"In case an evil one of you shows up!!!" Classic response

Knew im not the only one who is annoyed by those Subaru ads..as well as that FIFA 18 ad(still cant trust EA after the whole Star Wars Battlefront II mess)

Couldnt they at least have had William Katt's priest open HIS shirt to show the GAH symbol before being incinerated LOL

RE:Black Lightning-hate that that show's not going to be part of the Arrowverse..though Berlanti has said that if the show is a success then that will change

Edited November 28, 2017 by TDT

[Hiveminder]

So part of me feels bad for Felicity that she’s now so gunshy about getting married because of everything that happened last time she was engaged when for so long she was the one telling Oliver he could have it all, part of me feels bad for Oliver because the woman he loves yelled that she doesn’t want to marry him in front of a bunch of people and then tried to avoid talking about it before giving a basically nothing reason, and part of me is just super pissed that the writers just gift wrapped more reasons for the anti-Olicity/anti-Felicity crowd to hate Felicity. I don’t spend a lot of time on reddit, but I can just imagine all of the misogynistic crap being posted right about now. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

2. Uh, how did Oliver get a Kryptonite arrow? For that matter, how did he get Kryptonite? Arrow and Flash have only mentioned Bruce Wayne/Batman, not Superman, so this Earth shouldn't have Kryptonite, right? And is this really something that he carries around with his normal arrows just in case an evil Supergirl shows up?

Rip Hunter on Legends did at least mention something about seeing men of steel fall, so Superman being on earth1 is out there at least.  

[Mellowyellow]

I loved that so much! 

I thought the fight scenes in Part 2 failed in comparison to Part 1. Bamford is the stunt coordinator for all the fights yes? His directing continues to be awful! I have no idea what is going on in fight scenes, who is fighting who. It's like one giant confusing mosh pit.

I enjoyed Tom C as Thawne but I liked the more understated Thawne that he was in season one. This one was a bit "Muahahahhahaha". Although maybe they did that on purpose.

I love MB as Kara and think she is the perfect Kara but she's not very good as Overgirl! She looks petulant and bored at the same time! Like she decided to break out the dark clothes and lippy and sulk. 

SA continues to demonstrate why his super power is failing to have chemistry with any woman other than EBR! 

Heeeee I adored the scene where Barry and Kara were standing around looking impatient waiting for Oliver. And him snarking at them! Too cute! 

Mick and Caitlyn!!!!!! Everything I never knew I wanted!!!! I almost died when he went "BOO" to scare her into Killer Frost and Caitlyn and Felicity were like "WTF dude????"

***

There was sooooo much Olicity goodness I don't know where to start. 

My heart broke for both Oliver and Felicity but this is soooo totally angst that I can roll with. You can see how much Oliver wanted to marry Felicity and is probably harbouring secret daydreams about it but wasn't brave enough until Barry pushed him. Then he kind of got obsessed and finally the poor puppy was so insecure that she didn't love him enough to want to marry him.

I thought it was very clear why Felicity didn't want to marry him. She's had enough trauma to last a lifetime and things are as good as they'll ever be right now. In some weird superstitious/ freaked out way she's going to refuse to put a label on it lest it goes to shit and she loses him again. My poor baby. 

I also think that Felicity refusing him made Oliver even more obsessed and he seemed fixated on marriage being "proof" that she loved him. It makes sense with the line in 605 to Slade about how he wonders every day how he ended up with a girl like Felicity. Oliver is not a man of many words and not a man who likes to share his thoughts so the fact that he had a vent to WA about Felicity not marrying him was a nice touch to show how much this is killing him, despite all the nazis running around.

Can I just say that I LOVE LOVE LOVE x 1000 how Oliver Queen who ALWAYS lets Felicity make the first move on everything (especially in dessert related matters) has basically tried to heckle Felicity Meghan Smoak into marrying him multiple times now. *I am swooning so much someone slap me*

[lemotomato]

That was... a lot to pack in to 2 hours. While I appreciate I'm not going to have to wait 4 nights to see the whole crossover, I feel like i'm going to need that much time to fully process. 

Question: Did I miss an explanation for why EX Oliver went back to Star Labs instead of fighting in the warehouse with the other Nazis?

[BkWurm1]

41 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That was... a lot to pack in to 2 hours. While I appreciate I'm not going to have to wait 4 nights to see the whole crossover, I feel like i'm going to need that much time to fully process. 

Question: Did I miss an explanation for why EX Oliver went back to Star Labs instead of fighting in the warehouse with the other Nazis?

I don't think they spelled it out but they did talk about using Star Labs to do the surgery on KaraX.  So maybe he went while the other heroes were lured away to secure the facility?  It worked at least.  

[JohnSmithSensei]

We finally got the Prometheus reveal we deserved. No offense to Adrian, because he managed to take the ball and run with it when he got it, but Tommy as Prometheus had just so much potential and tonight was a cruel tease.

[Starfish35]

With all the positive reactions,  I feel kinda bad being so "meh" about it. But I think I actually liked the first hour better.  My only real complaint there was the RSVP nonsense.  But here....eh.  

I do like that they're taking the time to have all the quiet one on one character moments.  Those have been far and away the best.  And Mick, of course. :)  And ok, yes, that was the best line - "no super speed."  

But a lot of the fight scenes aren't really working for me (which suddenly made sense when I found out who was directing), and I'm not seeing much difference in the way SA and MB are playing the evil versions of themselves, and that's a bit irritating.  I'll be the voice of dissent and give the edge to MB on this one.  There's not much difference between our Kara and Earth-X Kara, but I see some (a tiny bit).  Whereas I literally cannot tell any difference between how SA is playing our Oliver and evil Oliver except for his costume and the words coming out of his mouth.  

TC is totally chewing the scenery as Thawne, but that's another thing.  How is Thawne back? Is this post-Spear of Destiny Thawne,  or what?  And why did they go with Thawne (again) instead of evil Barry? 

Why didn't Dinah use her Canary cry?  

How could gettting too close to the sun damage Overgirl's heart? Admittedly I'm not a comics reader, but by all the Superman lore I ever knew, that should make her strong, not weaker?

How the heck could Metallo take out Firestorm? 

How could Oliver possibly have been carrying enough cable to stabilize that building?

*sigh* I know.  The answer to all of these questions is "these shows", but still.   

I hope tomorrow night is stronger.  Please tell me Bamford isn't directing any more.  (He's not, right?) And  I need the rest of my Legends team to show up - Ray and Amaya and Zari and maybe even Nate.  And I miss Diggle!  The first Arrow episode I watch in ages and no Diggle! No fair! :(

As far as the posing, I didn't really have a problem with most of it, except for the one scene of Kara ripping her shirt open to show the S. That was ridiculous. 

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought the fight scenes in Part 2 failed in comparison to Part 1. Bamford is the stunt coordinator for all the fights yes? His directing continues to be awful! I have no idea what is going on in fight scenes, who is fighting who. It's like one giant confusing mosh pit.

Yes totally this.

[Shimmergloom]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Does that mean that there is a Kara on our Earth too and they just haven't found her yet?

Or her pod hasn't made it to the arrowverse earth yet and the arrowverse clark has also not revealed himself.  Or even that the arrowverse's Krypton was not destroyed.

[Harry Potter]

One Question.. Where is kid flash? 

Lol, it looks like he bailed. 

If that girl from the wedding is Iris and Barry's daughter from the future, we know they survive this... And why she isn't helping so not to mess with the timeline. 

 

It was ridiculous how Oliver X took down Starlabs.. I mean killer frost could've easily defeated him. 

 

Cisco is knocked the heck out. How did he get such a bad concussion! 

 

The fight scenes with the nazis in the warehouse.. I feel like they could easily take down the soldiers.. In fact, Barry could do it in a few seconds.. I know they're fighting their counterpart but cmon Barry is much stronger and faster now. Plus Torch I feel like is just making a pyro show lol. He's not blasting anything but the ground and boxes. He alone can take a majority of the soldiers out esp flying around. 

 

They had time calling for backup before the warehouse.. Like calling Mon-el and Jonn..even superman. That would've been a Justice League. A real one. Haha. 

[ruby24]

I wish Martian Manhunter was part of the team here. 

[LeighAn]

Based on the enthusiastic response I decided to watch and the nazi storyline was as Id thought unnecessary total garbage just as garbage as Nazi Oliver/Nazi Kara and will probably not get better but outside of that I thought the rapport between the heroes and their personal conflicts and relationships with each other was handled well. It provided an intimacy that I don't think other crossovers have done yet. I thought there was a lot of cheese factor in the crossover the speech the song the whole super heroes getting suited up and doing the vogue catwalk montage but I'll forgive it. 

The introductions at the start was probably my favourite thing I've seen any of the shows do and comes close to but doesn't quite surpass the joy I got from seeing Jessica Jones and Matt Murdock stalk each other in The Defenders.

The cinematography and backdrop settings in this episode was definitely a cut above average. Like ignoring all the hail hitlerness I thought the establishing shots and atmosphere of the Earth X scenes had a cinematic like feel to them. 

And I agree with others that the wedding fight was more enjoyable then the warehouse or building site fight scenes. 

I guess I have the crossover to thank for myself finding Mick/Killer Frost/Caitlin and Jax/Stein a surprise highlight for me given I'm not an avid fan of The Flash or LOT. And like others I loved the Olicity through line and the fact that they are talking the time in a crossover to explore Oliver and Felicity's lingering fears they haven't even now properly dealt with. I speculate that come part 2 Felicity may be faced with the idea/belief that her Oliver is dead and that will give her the push she needs. I do however think Oliver was being a little bit of a pouty baby about Felicity's reasonable views but at the same time Felicity tack for replying to Olivers proposal was not great. But the chemistry between them was top notch. 

I guess I just found that there was so much going on that you didn't have time to take anything in. Plus Nazis, plus Andrew Kreisbergs name still being in the credits. 

 

ETA:

I forgot to add this will probably be my fave underrated moment of Part 1:

 

ETA 2:

 

Also Colin O Donell rocked as Prometheus in his short scene and no offence Josh but it made me wish we actually got a Tommy is Prometheus back from the dead storyline last season. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by LeighAn

[mxc90]

They should have found a way to include an evil superman instead of evil Kara.

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

One Question.. Where is kid flash? 

Lol, it looks like he bailed. 

They made him run Joe/Cecil out of time and protect them. 

Lame reason to get rid of him so Barry is the only speedster. 

[Mellowyellow]

Hubby watching second part of crossover: What's with the jerky camera angles?

Oh how do I explain that hack Bamford to him?

[cambridgeguy]

Oh no, all of the heroes have been captured.  That just leaves Superman, J'onn, Jay Garrick, Wally, Gypsy, Jessie Quick, Ralph Dibny, and the rest of the Legends as backup.  Say, that sounds like a better team than the folks who stuck around in the first place.

[mtlchick]

Aside: Felicity, Caitlin and Alex doing most the tech stuff?  It's what STEM dreams are made of.  

[benteen]

BTW, LOL to whomever coined the phrase "Crisis in Infinite Warehouses" which is just brilliant.  I guess you have to save somewhere.

I did feel bad about the other half of the Legends being kept out of the first two episodes.  Though only Ray is the one I was surprised not to see at the wedding, as he's worked with Team Flash before. 

Iris just having Caitlin and Felicity standing in for her at the wedding is just sad.  This woman literally has no close friends.

I do think SA and MB did the evil thing well.  TC was over-the-top at times but still entertaining.  Though Harry's characterization this season continues to be bizarre.

Can't wait for the final two parts tonight!

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, benteen said:

BTW, LOL to whomever coined the phrase "Crisis in Infinite Warehouses" which is just brilliant.  I guess you have to save somewhere.

That would be @quarks

I'm not surprised they lost it over the Warehouses although, I expected more over the Rehearsal dinner at Jitters but, maybe that just bugged me more

 

Quote

I did feel bad about the other half of the Legends being kept out of the first two episodes.  Though only Ray is the one I was surprised not to see at the wedding, as he's worked with Team Flash before. 

That was a calculated mis-step, I get they wanted him out of the picture for whatever reason but, it seemed dumb to me that Barry would invite Mick Rory instead of Ray. One kidnapped Cisco and tried to kill Flash on a couple of occasions. The other worked with Flash in 118, Arrow 319 and, again in Arrow 322/323 plus last year's crossover.  There's way more positive history between Barry/Ray than Barry/Mick. Hell, I still can't figure out how Sara earned an invite, since the only time she worked with Team Flash was last year's crossover.

Stein (and by extension Jax) is the only Legend whose invite actually made sense, story wise, the rest were clearly there for the big fight or because fans screamed for a Sara/Alex hookup after last year's crossover.

That definitely took me briefly out of the story because it was an obvious BTS decision and not one directed by story/character.

[KirkB]

Stein NOT being invited would have been the biggest snub, and of course he would bring Jax. Ray not coming is a bit surprising but I can imagine it as they needed to keep at least one tech on the Waverider. Sara got the invite because she's a new friend who helped save the world. As for Mick, well, he may not have been technically invited so much as no one was willing to get between him and the free food and booze.

[tofutan]

I also liked the first hour better. I guess it was fitting, that the Supergirl hour felt overall lighter and brighter, while the Arrow episode felt more like... well Arrow. 

[johntfs]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Great fight scenes. Exactly HTF does Oliver have a Kryptonite arrow?!? Also, how can Harry be certain there are 53 Karas in the multiverse?

Oliver has a Kryptonite arrow because he now knows about super-powerful Kryptonians and also Krypton exploded and left some of its stuff on Earth.  Meanwhile while there might once have been 53 Karas, presumably Krypton tends to explode with her and Kal-el still on it.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed seeing all the characters, considering I don't watch Supergirl or Flash.  But the big battle at the end really highlighted how extraneous most of them were to this plot.  Which is why they sidelined Supergirl in last year's crossover.  The battle should really be about Flash and Supergirl and their evil counterparts.  Each disables all of the other side's grunts and less powered or no powered heroes and then battle each other.  The scene with evil Supergirl grabbing White Canary by the neck and attempting to choke her was laughable.  If she was really an evil Nazi, she could have snapped Sara's neck in an instant.

[johntfs]

Sara secretly absorbed Vandal Savage's immortality.

Also, where the fuck were Amaya, Nate, Ray and Zari.  I get them not being at the wedding (although Mick and Sara were?), however once Sara understands that they're going up against Nazis from another dimension complete with Evil Arrow and Supergirl plus the return of an even nastier Eobard Thawne, you'd think everybody would want all hands on deck.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I enjoyed the fight scene in the church, not so much the warehouse ones. But all these fights just reinforced to me why Arrow really should stay away from powers, and why it needs to kick powered characters on its show to the curb. He just can't compete, not with people shooting fires out of their hands and eyes. I mean, Oliver is an amazing fighter and, when writers remember, a very smart fighter but that's still nothing compared with actual powers. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva
corrected crub to curb :P

[benteen]

I suppose you could hand wave keeping Ray on the Waverider instead of Rory, despite him working with Team Flash (I remember him dropping a villain off at Star Labs to Cisco).  You'd rather have him running the ship than Rory.  Stein of course was a no-brainer given his close ties the group and Jax was the guy Team Flash selected to be part of the new Firestorm.  Sara is the leader of the team and helped them last year with the Dominators so I have no issue with her being there.

This is the second straight week there's been a Spider-Man reference in the Arrowverse.

[DearEvette]

First of all, the first two hours of this crossover has exceeded all expectation.  It is very well done and fun as heck.

But....I have to say the second hour was a bit of a let down after the bonkers awesomeness of the first hour. I was impatient for the firs thalf hour of this one because it seemed to mope a bit.  I had to keep reminding myself that the second hour was an Arrow show so of course it had to be dark and broody and I don't watch Arrow for that very reason and it made me lose some of my giddyness for the first hour.  Not all of it, though, because the second half picked up nicely and it did end on a good dramatic, heroes in peril note. But still,  it harshed my glow.

Evil Kara and Evil Oliver are blowing my mind and not in a good way.  I was watching just thinking... that is just wrong.  I loved kara saying "ew, gross."  Yup.

I am looking forward to next two eps a lot and hope that the Flash and LOTS crew bring it all home.

[Lady Calypso]

Ah, so as much as I liked the first part, I did really enjoy this part a little more. However, I also have a few more issues with this part than I did the last. So I think I'll start out with those issues and then work toward the positives.

First off, I will say that I'm completely underwhelmed by Dark Arrow, and the DA/Overgirl romantic plot. I do not like that it has become a main focus of where the story is heading. I know that Dark Arrow is essentially the evil version of Arrow, but I find that I can't differentiate between real Oliver and evil Oliver. The problem does lie in the fact that our Oliver is just as dark, but he hasn't crossed those lines at all. I think I needed a little bit more from Stephen to differentiate. Hell, even just dark eyeliner or a deeper voice would have sufficed. I get that it's hard to really draw a line like Melissa could do with Overgirl or Tom could do with Eobard (oh, I'll get to him next), but I felt like I was just watching Oliver making bad choices. Again, I understand that they might have been going toward a more subtle approach in showing evil Oliver, but it felt like they were implying that he's not so different from our Oliver with this whole love connection. Which...no. This is why I have an issue with the Nazi love story. 

Which is why I also rolled my eyes at Eobard and Overgirl talking about Dark Arrow maybe making the wrong choice and Overgirl stating that she'd basically kill herself if it came down to it. I will say that Melissa's performance as Overgirl was extremely well done. It really elevated the Nazi scenes. It wasn't even just about the look, but the acting was superb. 

Now, for Eobard. I admit that I could have missed the explanation, but Eobard died in Legends season 2. How is he still alive? Is this an Eobard before that season? A time remnant? Probably the latter. He was still underwhelming, much like Dark Arrow. Overgirl was the only one to somewhat impress me, but even her potential is hindered by her marriage to Dark Archer.

I thought BamBam finally didn't do a horrendous job at the directing. Well, except for the nauseating shots of the spinning camera. He still always makes me nauseous at least once during his directed episodes, so way to not disappoint me there, Bamford! However, I actually enjoyed several of his choices, so...progress? Also, it wasn't horribly dark so I could actually see things!

This did feel more like an Arrow-centric episode, mostly because there was more focus on Olicity, so Arrow fans lucked out on that (Supergirl fans were probably disappointed). I thought their scenes were well done, but I am still annoyed by the Felicity/Oliver marriage dilemma. Not that people can choose to not get married, and Felicity has every right to change her mind while Oliver also has the right to be disappointed, but it certainly felt like contrived drama. It just felt stilted for me, I guess. There was just something that held me back from enjoying the subplot, and I'm not sure what. I think it's how I see the outcome of this subplot happening, with Felicity changing her mind and Oliver being right all along. I mean, if Emily didn't portray Felicity as guilty and regretful over her feelings, then I might not be so convinced. 

Also, very minor and stupid nitpick, but I got annoyed at Oliver insisting that they talked about it, even when Felicity didn't want to until afterward, followed by the scene of Felicity wanting to talk about it and Oliver insisting that it can wait. Also, the fact that Oliver is whining about Felicity not wanting to get married and how Felicity feels guilty over it. I'm hoping that it will lead to a scene of Oliver telling Felicity that he can live with them not being married. Even that acknowledgment will make it a bit better, though I suspect Felicity will end up changing her mind. 

Hi Team B! Oh...bye, Team B. 

I thoroughly enjoyed the minor Mick/Killer Frost team-up. That was everything I wanted it to be.

Of course they can't have every main character appear here, but I was partially disappointed to see no Ray. Oh well. Missed opportunities for next time, I guess. I also wonder why they have Cisco basically unconscious for the crossover, but maybe they wanted to pull more focus on others, like Firestorm.

I will say, the whole "Superspeed. I don't have it" line from Oliver made me laugh really hard. One of the few moments I really got a chuckle out of Oliver. Stephen's delivery was perfect. 

Now, to end on a super high note. TOMMY! TOMMY MERLYN AS PROMETHEUS! It's basically the fan theory coming true! I get that Colin Donnell could probably only make a quick cameo, which is why Tommy had to kill himself, but we got him back for a scene! I loved the transformation from sad Tommy to completely evil Tommy. He totally got me in that scene with Oliver. I legit even teared up until he revealed himself to be tricking Oliver. Man, that was an awesome, awesome scene. I am happy yet sad that Colin's show is still doing ok, mostly because I want him back on this show. 

I'll now read through the comments here to see if I've missed anything to add to.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That would be @quarks

I'm not surprised they lost it over the Warehouses although, I expected more over the Rehearsal dinner at Jitters but, maybe that just bugged me more

 

If it helps, I was also not very happy with the rehearsal dinner at Jitters.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, quarks said:

2. Uh, how did Oliver get a Kryptonite arrow? For that matter, how did he get Kryptonite? Arrow and Flash have only mentioned Bruce Wayne/Batman, not Superman, so this Earth shouldn't have Kryptonite, right? And is this really something that he carries around with his normal arrows just in case an evil Supergirl shows up?

3. Why does anyone bother asking any Oliver on any Earth not to brood? This is his default status.

If you are willing to suspend disbelief about Ollie knowing about Kryptonite in the first place and him being able to obtain it, it makes sense for him to have it with him. He (presumably) knows that Supergirl is coming to Barry's wedding and he remembers how easily she kicked the entirety of Team Arrowflashlegends's asses in the skirmish from last year, and what a problem it was when Dominators mind-controlled her. So it makes sense he'd take a precaution. 

Eobard may be evil, but he's not stupid. He only asked Oliver to tone down his brooding by 10 percent, not 100 percent.

[Sakura12]

6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

With all the positive reactions,  I feel kinda bad being so "meh" about it. But I think I actually liked the first hour better. 

I'm with you. I did enjoy the first hour, then this one was kind of meh. The church fight scene was amazing, the warehouse one was a mess. It felt like someone gave their kid the camera and he was running all over the place with it. Someone needs to tell Bamford that he doesn't need to always move the camera around or at least let it linger in place for a bit so I can see what's going on. 

Evil Nazi Oliver being married to Evil Nazi Kara, I'm with our Kara, gross. I did like the Oliver in the High Castle mention from Felicity. Since that's what I was thinking about when they announced this crossover. 

I loved the Sara and Alex scenes, from drinking buddies, to sexy times, to awkward morning after to kicking ass together. Still don't know how Sara got an invite to the wedding. Mick knows team Flash more than she does. I'm just fanwanking that he got Snart's invite and took Sara as his plus one. 

[tv echo]

I'm loving the crossover so far - more than I expected. I was glued to the screen the entire time... 

The characters are all acting in character. The relationship dramas are believable and consistent. There were a lot of nice emotional and/or awkward moments that made sense. Oliver and Barry. Oliver and Felicity. Barry and Iris. Felicity and Iris. Stein and Jax. Stein and Caitlin. Mick and Caitlin. Sara and Alex. Alex and Kara.

Even the XOliver/XKara romantic pairing wasn't as cringe-inducing as I expected (though it was still pretty bad) because they were clearly both still evil. They thought they were entitled to do anything and kill anyone in order to get what they wanted. After some consideration, I think that maybe it's okay to show that Nazis can be married and have relationships. Why? When Nazis are portrayed as 2D, cartoony villains, it's easy to dismiss them as fictional, fantasy villains. But in real life, it's the ordinary family who lives down the street, or the polite guy who works in the local store or office, who hide their evil and bigotry behind a facade of normalcy. That's the hidden threat - not the obvious villain. On the other hand, normalizing evil is also a real danger. So I dunno.

Colin Donnell's cameo was superb. I loved how XTommy played and manipulated Oliver's emotions at first, before revealing his true evil self. (Most likely, XTommy also had a wife waiting for him back on Earth-X, but that doesn't make him any less evil.) I also thought that SA did a wonderful acting job in this scene - as well as throughout the entire crossover so far. I agree that SA is the MVP of the crossover so far.

If the Nazis won WW2 on Earth-X, then it's possible that parallel versions of Felicity and Iris never existed on Earth-X because their parents or grandparents could've been killed long ago. Still, I would love to see Earth-X versions of them as Resistance fighters.

One big flaw that I saw in the crossover was how contrived they had to make it so that none of our heroes were killed. It was not believable that the Nazis would leave alive everybody who's a regular cast member, especially when they were unconscious and really unnecessary. For example, Mick, Caitlin, Curtis, Rene and Dinah were simply locked up in the STAR Labs holding cells. Did the Nazis assume everyone knew Kara and could be used as leverage? And why do they even need leverage or more prisoners? They could've just taken Kara and killed everyone else. Also, if their main mission was to take over our Earth, then killing these superheroes who would've defended Earth while they're down would make more sense.

Some nitpicks: 
-- Where did Oliver get his bow and arrows in the church? Were they under the pew, or did he have a miniature bow and arrows up his sleeve that suddenly grew 10 sizes?
-- XOliver wouldn't necessarily have the same training or even be an archer like our Oliver because he would not have grown up a spoiled brat and then spent five years on an island (and elsewhere) learning archery and martial arts. He would've grown up in a military system.  
-- I involuntarily laughed when Joe West gave his speech about how happy he was to have his children marry each other.
-- It was sometimes disconcerting to see Felicity and Kara side-by-side, when both wore their hair down and glasses. It just reinforced how much Felicity influenced the EPs' portrayal and casting of Kara.
-- No Diggle!  :(

Still, I can't wait to watch the rest of the crossover tonight.

Edited November 28, 2017 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

You know what I was thinking? It's awfully considerate of all the villains in Star City right now to take a break. I mean, Diggle's the only one there right now, and he can't fight. (I'm going to assume that Thea's still recovering, though who knows, she could be ready to take down an army if they wanted her to.) 

[Guest]

I've never really understood the fandom obsession with Tommy tbh but his scene with Oliver makes me annoyed we never got to see evil Tommy on the show. I think CD would've killed it.

[leopardprint]

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- XOliver wouldn't necessarily have the same training or even be an archer like our Oliver because he would not have grown up a spoiled brat and then spent five years on an island (and elsewhere) learning archery and martial arts. He would've grown up in a military system.  

Yeah, his costume makes no sense given his backstory. Especially since the person who inspired the costume was from China which presumably doesn't exist either. What happened to the other Axis powers on this world? 

I'm holding back on commenting until I've watched all four hours because I would basically be this lady: 

Returning to lurking. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by leopardprint

[DeadZeus]

Man.. Evil Oliver is what i want regular Oliver to be... Evil Oliver could actually take out Metahumans... our Oliver never does that and if he does, he loses...

Also still don't know why they keep letting both Olivers just use close quarters combat in fightscenes and don't mix it up with an Arrow shot every now and then... (like S1 hallway fight, and many more)
Was really hoping this close quarters combat fetish would die in S6 and we would get S1-S2 quality again but i guess it's just a distant dream...

Also funny how Oliver is suddenly super agile in that building, but last episode Cayden just casually walked around a corner and Oliver already gave up and didn't bother to chase him....

He didn't take out much bad guys which sucks...
Really hoping that Oliver actually does take out Evil Kara next episode!! (why didn't the kryptonite Arrow work again?)

Edited November 28, 2017 by DeadZeus

[TV Anonymous]

It is an excellent crossover so far, but there is something that I do not like. They are breaking canon by allowing Overgirl to pull out that kryptonite Arrow and break it. Should Kryptonian not be totally vulnerable to kryptonite? As to completely lose their power (super or otherwise) just in the close proximity of one?

[Delphi]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Hubby watching second part of crossover: What's with the jerky camera angles?

Oh how do I explain that hack Bamford to him?

Illusory superiority?

[KirkB]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I also wonder why they have Cisco basically unconscious for the crossover

Of all the questions so far, this is one I can fairly easily and confidently answer. The end of the episode has everyone trapped on Earth X. If Cisco were conscious and with them, they would not be.

46 minutes ago, tv echo said:

One big flaw that I saw in the crossover was how contrived they had to make it so that none of our heroes were killed. It was not believable that the Nazis would leave alive everybody who's a regular cast member, especially when they were unconscious and really unnecessary. For example, Mick, Caitlin, Curtis, Rene and Dinah were simply locked up in the STAR Labs holding cells. Did the Nazis assume everyone knew Kara and could be used as leverage? And why do they even need leverage or more prisoners? They could've just taken Kara and killed everyone else. Also, if their main mission was to take over our Earth, then killing these superheroes who would've defended Earth while they're down would make more sense.

That's always a problem in a story like this, where narratively the bad guys have to win for part of the story so the heroes can rally back together and ultimately win the day. Only here, it makes even less sense than it normally does. The Earth X folks might consider their heroic counterparts weak but as long as they are alive they are potentially a threat, however minor, so while they are all unconscious why would Nazis NOT kill their enemies? Kara is the only person in the entire scenario they need to keep alive, at least until her heart is removed.

So, let me understand this. They had the big robbery to still a power source to make a red sun like thing to weaken Kara enough to perform surgery. Yet no one thinks to just use kryptonite surgical tools and save themselves a lot of trouble?

It is stretching credulity a little to think that Oliver, in a world where Nazis rule and his lifestyle growing up must have been completely different, somehow still ends up wielding a bow and wearing a hood.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I did like the Oliver in the High Castle mention from Felicity. Since that's what I was thinking about when they announced this crossover. 

Yeah that was a good line. 

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Still don't know how Sara got an invite to the wedding. Mick knows team Flash more than she does. I'm just fanwanking that he got Snart's invite and took Sara as his plus one. 

I can sorta see Sara, I guess by the logic that if they can know Laurel as well as they apparently did, Sara's not really a stretch.  But not Mick, although having him there was hilarious.  I like the fanwank, but Ray told Barry about Snart's death last year during the crossover, so he wouldn't have gotten an invitation.  In any case, having both of them and not Ray felt weird.  And it really felt like the Diggles should be there, although I guess supposing what Barry did to their family, maybe not not so much.

[Sakura12]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah that was a good line. 

I can sorta see Sara, I guess by the logic that if they can know Laurel as well as they apparently did, Sara's not really a stretch.  But not Mick, although having him there was hilarious.  I like the fanwank, but Ray told Barry about Snart's death last year during the crossover, so he wouldn't have gotten an invitation.  In any case, having both of them and not Ray felt weird.  And it really felt like the Diggles should be there, although I guess supposing what Barry did to their family, maybe not not so much.

They may have known Laurel well (which is a stretch for me) but they only knew Sara as her sister that dies and comes back all the time. Maybe Sara got Laurel's invite and Mick got Snart's? 

[Starfish35]

Why would they invite people that are dead? Or, wait, do you mean in place of Laurel and Snart? 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Why would they invite people that are dead? Or, wait, do you mean in place of Laurel and Snart? 

Since the "loved" Laurel so much had she lived she probably would've gotten an invite and Snart asked to be invited to their wedding. Since they both died Barry and Iris decided to invite Laurel's sister Sara and Snart's best friend Mick. 

[KirkB]

Between Barry and the Legends they could have Laurel, Snart and Barry's parents at the wedding if they REALLY wanted to.

[Starfish35]

Just now, Sakura12 said:

Since the "loved" Laurel so much had she lived she probably would've gotten an invite and Snart asked to be invited to their wedding. Since they both died Barry and Iris decided to invite Laurel's sister Sara and Snart's best friend Mick. 

Oh I see. I was completely confused. Sorry.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

-- Where did Oliver get his bow and arrows in the church? Were they under the pew, or did he have a miniature bow and arrows up his sleeve that suddenly grew 10 sizes?

I think he has a new telescoping recurve bow (and arrows) like the telescoping bow he had in s4 I think it was. It was in his cumberbund. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL.

Edited November 28, 2017 by catrox14

[Bruinsfan]

14 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Even regular Kara was grossed out by that hook up. 

At least Overgirl appears to have proactively headed off that whole "you cheated on me with my sister?!?" thing.