S08.E02: The Damned

[Ailianna]

My biggest takeaway is that I still don't know if last week really happened or not. No Father Gabriel, so maybe... But none of it made any sense in a story sense.

[JackONeill]

And so ends my reign as President of the Francine Fan Club (North American Edition).

I got that these were separate outposts that our teams were trying to wipe out. But they seemed to be awfully big outposts, with lots of people and guns. I guess our team had better things to do than recon these places ahead of time (he said, sarcastically).

[Haleth]

See?  This is what happens when the fans complain about too much speechifying.  We get mindless shooting with no explanation and almost no dialog (except for King Zeke).  At least we didn't have to suffer any Negan posturing this week.  So that's good.

Hello, Gracie!  Rick can set up a play date for Judith with Gracie's dad.  Or not.  Oops.

[festivus]

I know we all wanted them to fight back so why is it so booooring. I think because the main objective is to kill Negan and we all know that ain't gonna happen. Makes it hard for me to get invested in all this. 

 

Also: Shutup Jesus! I would have accepted those actions from Glenn, a character who's earned it and is Tara's friend. I will never stop being bitter about Glenn being gone. Never.

[Johnny Dollar]

The odds that Rick would meet up with some Season 1 rando, hundreds of miles away from when we last saw him, at the same moment that both were in the same spot in the whole USA, and that they would both remember each other, are about the same as the odds that I will be able to make it through this season. 

[ghoulina]

I have this dreadful feeling that this day, this fight, is going to go on for the whole first half of the season. Someone please talk me down. 

It's just - enough already. Bang, bang, dead people. Yay. I don't want to be one of those people that complains all summer of the heat, but then when winter comes they want summer back. But.....there's action, and then there's too much action. It just isn't doing anything for me. It suddenly seems too easy to take The Saviors down, and at the same time, it seems futile. We know Negan ain't going anywhere.  We don't even SEE him, or Gabe, this week. OF COURSE. 

I don't know if it's my lack of enthusiasm for this show or issues on the writers' parts, but I had a hard time keeping track of who was where with whom. I know Tara, Jesus, and Morgan were at the satellite outpost. And Carol and Zeke were in the woods with the Kingdom people. But all that shooting up that was going on outside with Aaron and Eric - was that the same building that Rick and Daryl were inside of? 

So now Jesus is the conscience. And the idiot. "Hey, let's let this guy live. He peed himself and has his hands up. Ooops, he got the best of me, dangit! Aaaaand, then I get the upper hand back. But I'm STILL not going to kill him. That would be mean". Then they take like 4,000 hostages. Because that's manageable. Look, you sign up for war, you wage war. End of story. I was with Tara on this one. 

Only a few enjoyable moments for me. After Rick killed Gracie's dad, and found the baby, his reaction - that's classic Andrew Lincoln acting for you. At least something to be impressed with in this hour of drudgery. But....um....is someone gonna get that baby? I know she's the world's heaviest sleeper, but let's not leave her, okay? Maybe now-a-dick-Morales will take care of her? 

Other enjoyable moment - Ezekial telling Carol, "Fake it til ya make it, baby". I love his style so much. 

Other than that, bunch of dead red shirts. Don't care. Eric will probably die. Don't care. They've done nothing to flesh out his character or his relationship with Eric. I forget him the minute he's off screen. If that's supposed to be a big, shocking death.....meh. 

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, mmecorday said:

Or when an ad for "Stranger Things" comes on, you think to yourself, "I should be watching that instead!"

They're lucky I binged it all by Sat night, or I definitely wouldn't have given it priority over TWD. 

[nodorothyparker]

The Forbes review headline of this?  None of That Made Any Sense.  I hear you, boy, do I hear you.

It seems like it's either feast or famine with this show.  Either we get an extra special 90 minutes of Negan and whichever character is up for some speechifying just talking and talking and talking, or we get an episode like this and to a large extent last season's finale where people are running and shooting in all directions and you can't figure out who's who or where anyone is supposed to be.  I don't need the show to spend half a hour with diagrams and Rick laying out the plan in intricate detail, but it would be nice for them to at least give me some outline of what they're trying to accomplish and where everybody is and in relation to each other.  As of now, the only group I can consistently identify is the Kingdom crew because they helpfully dress in all black and silly armor and are led by characters I still like enough not to have tuned out.  I feel like I literally spent half this episode watching nameless extras fire on each other with no idea whether that was a good or bad thing until a main character showed up to tell me.

Does the show now have an official pacifist stick they take turns holding?  Morgan seems to have let go of it for good now that one of the voices in his head is Kill "em All Rick, but he apparently passed it off to Jesus this week because what time is better to arbitrarily decide to take large numbers of prisoners you have no means of holding than in the middle of a firefight where you know the other side is definitely shooting to kill you?  I keep feeling like there's a Pacifist Jesus joke in there somewhere but I'm mostly just glad he likely ended up covered in pee wrestling with the guy he was stupid enough to believe.  The few remaining original ASZhats Rick's management hasn't managed to get killed up until now seemed to show up this week only to take a bullet, but they've all been so undeveloped as characters that's mostly a big who cares too. 

It feels like the show is setting Ezekiel up to take a hard fall with the amount of hubris he was showing this week, although at least some of that can probably be chalked up to finally being able to get off the pot and do something rather than continually trying to appease a gang of murderous extortionists along with the exhilaration of fighting alongside the obvious object of his affection.  They spent all episode chasing after someone because ... reasons?  Something about the guy tipping off the Saviors they were coming but the Saviors surely already knew that considering they were being fired on in multiple locations.

The only thing I'm finding interesting is how the show is finally dropping any pretense that Rick is really at all okay.  Both this episode and last you had other characters continually checking in on him almost like minders and he was stalking bowlegged throughout as dripping sweaty and bloody as ever to catch his reflection in more than one mirror.  He had a moment eyeballing his mirror image over the world's soundest sleeping baby where you could see that he did recognize from that child's perspective he would be seen as the aggressor and bad guy. 

[Wouldofshouldof]

3 hours ago, Miles said:

The guy Morgan woke up next to, who was supposed to be dead, but was so clearly still alive.

I was watching with my BF, who had never seen an episode before.  So I was too busy pointing out "Good guy...Bad guy...Baddie...Good guy" to notice that it was Morgan who got shot.  When he opened his eyes and got up, I Lol'd that I was probably supposed to be freaking out that Morgan was dead, and I didn't even realize it was him!

[A-Lo]

11 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Francine's death was just confirmed on Talking Dead.

Who is Francine?

[JackONeill]

And where is Morgan all of a sudden coming up with "I will not die" stick? I would think all of them, especially Rick, could make that claim based on the near scrapes they've had. But Rick would NEVER say something like that BECAUSE he has had near misses. He may get nutso from time-to-time, but he knows he can die at any minute

And what's up with Jesus and his sudden bleeding-heart ways? That seems SO contrived. It seems like a set-up to where either he or Tara gets screwed because of it.

I understand that people in a world like this can have their world-views change. But with this crew, there's no reasonable rationale. And worse, the writers never really develop it. Maybe that works for comics, but for TV, the viewer needs to have a little more info.

I hate to pick on Tara, but she was the avenging angel last night because of the death of Denise. True, the show did spend a little more time on Denise than some third-string characters, but, honestly, it all happened so long ago that I just didn't feel Tara's anger. Which is another problem with this show-- things get dragged out way too long. By the time they get around to killing Negan, I just won't care anymore.

Edited October 30, 2017 by JackONeill

[Roselle]

12 hours ago, WritinMan said:

 

And I swear, whenever Ezekiel talks, it's all I can do to not fall asleep.

I am so with you - I hate his self-styled Kingly ways but I think we are supposed to see him through Carol's very bemused/impatient eyes. I was eye-rolling right along with her over his sabre waving, am-dram rallying.  I really hope they don't allow him to continue with the ridiculous much longer.

 

12 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 

So were Rick and Daryl set up, or was Dwight?

Can someone tell me - Is it possible that Gracie is Dwight's daughter, or even Negan's daughter by Dwight's wife (and therefore kept safe by Negan), and could he have deliberately directed Rick there to recover her?  Or is she just a random baby who will add to poor Rick's weight of guilt? 

 

8 hours ago, Sentient Meat said:

This episode was like playing a boring shooter video game, where your players had to walking through endless corridors, looking into every room.  The problem is that there are no establishing shots to explain the context of anything, so all dramatic tension is reduced to a guessing game....  What I always loved about the show was the characters, and the occasional suspense sequence... not this poorly executed action show that aspires for an artsy quality but instead comes off as silly.

 

Totally agree - Those slow mo pretties at the beginning and end really did nothing at all but bookend the rather dull-but-should-have-been-exciting mess in the middle. Like the director was trying too hard for the 'art'. Although, having said that, the shot of beautifully bow-legged, back lit, dangerous and sweaty Rick in the corridor was very lovely indeed. :)

[ghoulina]

42 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

And where is Morgan all of a sudden coming up with "I will not die" stick? I would think all of them, especially Rick, could make that claim based on the near scrapes they've had. But Rick would NEVER say something like that BECAUSE he has had near misses. He may get nutso from time-to-time, but he knows he can die at any minute

I don't think Morgan said that out of arrogance. He wasn't being all, "I'm such a badass, no one can kill me". It was more of an "I wish I could die, but I just don't." He feels cursed by watching so many people die around him, yet he keeps on living. He's kind of warning people not to get too close, because in his cursed mind, THEY'LL be the ones getting killed. 

[nodorothyparker]

Yeah, the closeups of the main characters' faces at the beginning and ending?  No, just no.  This isn't great art.  Stop trying to make that happen.

[Boofish]

Making my popcorn so I can read the comments, but the plan seemed to be - neutralize the main compound where Charlie Brown and A crew sleeps so they can raid and take out the compounds. 

And I always wondered what happened to Morales. When Rick saw the picture I yelled at the TV "it's either Morales or one of the Vatos" I really need a story on how Morales of all the people wound up a savior and will Rick telling him Negan beat Glen to death save his life.

I don't mind the reanimation times being loopy. We have been reminded Jim lasted 2 days, Bob lasted a day and others have turned immediately. 

[Ohwell]

The thing that worried me the most this episode was Jerry getting more speaking lines, which makes me fear that something bad is going to happen to him soon.  Writers, please don't fuck with Jerry!

I am getting increasingly annoyed with Ezekiel and his speechifying, and that damn thing that's supposed to be a wig on his head.  I don't even care if he and Carol wind up bumping uglies, I just don't want to see it.   Please, show.

[Rosiejuliemom]

10 minutes ago, Boofish said:

And I always wondered what happened to Morales. When Rick saw the picture I yelled at the TV "it's either Morales or one of the Vatos" I really need a story on how Morales of all the people wound up a savior and will Rick telling him Negan beat Glen to death save his life.

I don't mind the reanimation times being loopy. We have been reminded Jim lasted 2 days, Bob lasted a day and others have turned immediately. 

Rick: "Do you remember Glenn?"

Morales: "Yeah. Why?"

Rick: "Negan beat his head in with that fucking bat. While we were forced to watch."

Morales: "Holy shit! What about everyone else? Andrea? Dale? Shane? Lori?"

Rick: "Well...Carol and Daryl are alive. Carl is missing an eye."

Morales: "..."

 

As for reanimation times, I thought they always moved at the speed of plot. Dr. Jenner said that they varied from person to person.

[Boofish]

10 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The thing that worried me the most this episode was Jerry getting more speaking lines, which makes me fear that something bad is going to happen to him soon.  Writers, please don't fuck with Jerry!

 

If there was ever a person I wanted to see in plot armor its "JERRY!!!"

[Ohwell]

3 minutes ago, Boofish said:

If there was ever a person I wanted to see in plot armor its "JERRY!!!"

And he bakes cobbler!

[Boofish]

1 hour ago, A-Lo said:

Who is Francine?

Francine was a resident of the Alexandria Safe Zone who was left behind to die at a construction site by Tobin and other guy who I got mixed up with Tobin who died in the Season 6 premiere. Abe saved her life and she punched "other guy" in the face for leaving her. Hasn't been seen much since

[ShadowSixx]

My DVR only recorded 15 minutes of the premiere which I don't know why it did that. Is this group still not giving a damn about Heath? Are they even bothering to look for him? Do they even care for him at this point? Or is he confirmed dead? I'm also guessing that Michonne and useless bitch ass Rosita are still recovering?

I don't understand why Jesus thought because the guy pissed his pants and had his hands in the air that he wasn't dangerous or wasn't trying to trick them. Why the hell would you want to take Saviors as hostages? Kill them so you can dwindle down their numbers. I mean really where the hell are you going to put those hostages? In Morgan's makeshift jail cell? Hilltop with cowardly lion Greg and pregnant Maggie? It's not like they're going to immediately join forces with them.

Jesus saying it's not about revenge, well shit can't some of it be about revenge. Saviors killed people without emotion and taken a majority of their guns, ammo, food, and furniture.

I'm not really feeling this season so far as you can tell writers are basically making characters act a certain way simply for plot purposes. They're steering Morgan away from the pacifist role so they need another character to fill that spot and that goes to Jesus this season. 

They could've developed Francine a little more before killing her. Eric was just a Lori 2.0 useless and wanted to do nothing but have him and Aaron sitting on the porch drinking lemonade while everyone else in Alexandria do all the work. 

I also don't understand that when it comes to killing Negan which is the main objective I'm guessing. Nobody pulls the trigger or just shoot him on sight. Why talk? Oh right when they shoot at him they're aiming everywhere else but at him. Or are the bullets growing brains and purposely dodging out of Negan's way cause they don't want to hear him pontificate while dying?

[Ocean Chick]

I love Khary and Zeke amuses me, so I'm okay with his short speeches.  At least they're short compared to Negan.  And Carol humanizes him a lot, so that's good.

So long Francine - you were one of the few ASZers that I truly liked.  It should have been Tobin that bit the dust.

Welcome back, Crazy Morgan.  Haven't seen you for a while.  Did you spend time teaching Jesus to make cheese?

If Gracie ends up as a walker appetizer, I'm totally blaming Rick.

Morales always seemed so calm and moral before, at the quarry, so I really want to know what happened to him so that he's okay with hanging with the Saviors.  And how did he end up near WDC when he was headed towards Birmingham from Atlanta?  His GPS not working?

[dshgr]

Coming out of lurkdom to air my biggest gripe:

 

Why weren't they plucking the guns off of the dead people!!!!!

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I hate to pick on Tara, but she was the avenging angel last night because of the death of Denise. True, the show did spend a little more time on Denise than some third-string characters, but, honestly, it all happened so long ago that I just didn't feel Tara's anger. Which is another problem with this show-- things get dragged out way too long. By the time they get around to killing Negan, I just won't care anymore.

I don't care because Tara is such a crappy character played by such a crappy actress I can't stand it when she's on my screen.  But this is one show that seems to go out of its way to focus most on the worst characters and performers.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Francine was a resident of the Alexandria Safe Zone who was left behind to die at a construction site by Tobin and other guy who I got mixed up with Tobin who died in the Season 6 premiere. Abe saved her life and she punched "other guy" in the face for leaving her. Hasn't been seen much since

I still don't remember her. And I spent most of this episode thinking she was Maggie. Where did Maggie go, anyway?

Quote

I had a hard time keeping track of who was where with whom. I know Tara, Jesus, and Morgan were at the satellite outpost. And Carol and Zeke were in the woods with the Kingdom people. But all that shooting up that was going on outside with Aaron and Eric - was that the same building that Rick and Daryl were inside of? 

I couldn't figure out who was where either. 

I'm mostly OK with where this is going . . . so far. I mean, I did kind of like it when the Savior in the shoot-out realized what was happening once her people started becoming zombie-fied. And I like the momentum that the various groups (Hilltop, ASZ, Kingdom) are gaining. But I will be super unhappy if the Saviors manage to turn the tables again because ultimately we need to move past this. If it's just going to keep flip-flopping there's no point to it. When everyone was moving in slow motion at the end and all we saw were close-ups of everyone's faces, I half expected to find out they had all been captured by the returning Saviors and were all being marched to their doom. 

But if Rick's people can keep the upper hand and ultimately conquer the Saviors, I'll be OK with it.

[TigerLynx]

15 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Morgan?  It kind of looked like Rick is going nuts again.  Sweat dripping down his drenched curls, dazed look in his eyes, realizing he just killed Gracie's daddy.  Perhaps killing "himself"?  He better not leave that baby girl behind to be munched on by her turned father.

Rick looks like that 90% of the time so I no longer pay attention to him.

15 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Tara could have finished the guy herself but expected Jesus to do it. I wonder if he'll be her or someone else's doom in a few weeks.

Tara should have killed him.  Why Tara didn't kill him, why Jesus didn't kill him, and is taking prisoners, or why Morgan didn't kill at least that one Savior who was a prisoner, I do not know, but it will come back to bite them.

14 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Yes! It's because this war should have been over two seasons ago. The showrunner's have never seemed to understand that what works in the graphic novels does not work on the show. TV and Lit are two very different mediums. All of the story lines with major villians (with the exception of Terminus, which ironically enough was a storyline that probably could have lasted a little longer) have been un-necessarily long and tend to veer into "been there done that" territory. There's no dramatic tension which is necessary for this type of story on TV because we all know that Rick is not going to die. 

We are two episodes in and it's not clear what the point of episode one or two was. What is the group doing exactly? How is this going to help them achieve their goal(s)? Why didn't they just shoot Negan last week and then deal with the rest of the saviors -- many of whom would have buckled after their loss of their leader. It makes no sense. 

This is probably why I love the Terminus SL.  Always leave your audience wanting more, not wishing the majority of your characters would shut the hell up.

I did laugh when that Savior woman realized there was no reasons for Aaron's (I think it was Aaron's group) to advance because they were waiting for Zombies to animate and help kill off the Saviors.  It was like, "Oh yeah, the reason for the ZA, and why we are all here in the first place killing each other.  Zombies, breakdown of social structure, psychos taking over."

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Writers, please don't fuck with Jerry!

That was a funny scene when Jerry killed a walker.  Zeke wondered what befell that poor creature and Jerry looked at him like, well... me?  A bit of well needed comedy.

[Nashville]

10 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

I'm wondering how does Shiva know who to attack and who not to attack. They need to explain that. 

It's not really that difficult:

1. Wearing armor?  No attack.
2. Next to / friends with people wearing armor?  No attack.
3. No armor, and no armor-wearing friends nearby?  ATTACK.

:)

[Irishmaple]

There was a lot happening in this episode but the locations were throwing me off.

Aaron, Eric and the rest of the Alexandrites were attacking Saviours outdoors. The plan, which I liked, was shoot until enough Saviours die and take care of the rest. Solid plan, considering how sheltered the Alexandrites were. Eric was hopping around so much I’m not surprised he got shot. That part of the operation went fine, except for Eric and Tobin, but his wound looks survivable.

Rick and a bunch were inside. Were they inside the same building that Aaron was holding? Anyway, they were sent there by Dwight, I guess. It seemed that Dwight only knew the building was important but didn’t know why. He assumed it was an armoury, but it was a nursery. If Gracie is the high value target, then she has to be Negan’s kid, right?  Of course Negan would take a baby from her mother and place her under guard, because it’s all about him.

Where was Daryl? I saw him lurking around, moping through his hair, but I had no idea where he was.

Tara should have started her run by hitting Jesus over the head and stashing him safely in a corner. They were in the same location as Morgan and Diane, so most of those Saviours are dead.

I still enjoy Ezekiel, and Carol’s bemusement. They were all in a wood somewhere. 

Exactly what Saviours did Morales call? The big compound is besieged by a horde of zombies, a bunch got taken out last week and another bunch died in this episode. I think Morales might be overly optimistic about his backup.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I would really like to see Rick walk out there with baby Gracie and have it be like that one scene from "Children of Men". Doubt it would happen, though. I'm guessing her mother has died - If my baby was there, I'd be in the room with her, especially since I guess Dad was the one Rick killed. I wonder if  the Saviors would retaliate heavily for the taking of Gracie, though it would be a tough spot to be in because you can't exactly leave a baby alone in a building full of possibly reanimated dead guys.

I really, really need to know what happened to that baby and I am 98% sure that we won't find out.

1 minute ago, Irishmaple said:

It seemed that Dwight only knew the building was important but didn’t know why. He assumed it was an armoury, but it was a nursery. If Gracie is the high value target, then she has to be Negan’s kid, right?  Of course Negan would take a baby from her mother and place her under guard, because it’s all about him.

I didn't think of this, but you may be right! Plus, Negan has shown a semi-soft spot for the kiddos, IMO, so if she was his baby, he'd definitely want her nearby. Might be why he was enthralled with Judith as well during the spaghetti scenes. And furthermore, he has all of those wives. We saw Sherry take a pregnancy test. There's definitely a possibility he has at least one baby. As far as I saw, though, she was the only one around.

[Cotypubby]

9 hours ago, Miles said:

Speaking of which. The guy Morgan woke up next to, who was supposed to be dead, but was so clearly still alive. There is a reason they usually close the eyes in movies and TV shows when somebody is supposed to be dead. You can easily see in the eyes if somebody is alive or not and ittakes some serious work to hide it, which wasn't done here... that you could see him breathing didn't help.

 

I thought we were supposed to see that he was still alive, but Morgan didn't notice/didn't care because now all he wants to do is kill the Saviors.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Yeah, the closeups of the main characters' faces at the beginning and ending?  No, just no.  This isn't great art.  Stop trying to make that happen.

Hahahaha, so true. All that close-up of Daryl's muppet face did was make me snicker. 

 

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

did laugh when that Savior woman realized there was no reasons for Aaron's (I think it was Aaron's group) to advance because they were waiting for Zombies to animate and help kill off the Saviors.  It was like, "Oh yeah, the reason for the ZA, and why we are all here in the first place killing each other.  Zombies, breakdown of social structure, psychos taking over."

Those people were too stupid to live. Why were they all just sitting outside, perfectly exposed like that anyhow? The Saviors seemed to have gone from being this terrifying, well oiled machine to a bunch of bumbling morons. 

 

24 minutes ago, Irishmaple said:

Where was Daryl? I saw him lurking around, moping through his hair, but I had no idea where he was.

He and Rick went into that building together. They were looking for the armory and clearing floors one by one. When they got to the top floor, Rick surmised that this HAD to be the right floor, and it would be quicker if they split up. Hence Rick being on his own when he killed that man. 

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, festivus said:

Also: Shutup Jesus! I would have accepted those actions from Glenn, a character who's earned it and is Tara's friend. I will never stop being bitter about Glenn being gone. Never.

I'm guessing with Glenn's absence, Jesus is now lobbying for the Moral Conscience job - in response to which I would ask, "WHY!?!?"  I mean - this job may have the best fringe benefits package in the known universe, but its retirement plan absolutely sucks.

 

4 hours ago, JackONeill said:

And where is Morgan all of a sudden coming up with "I will not die" stick?

 

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think Morgan said that out of arrogance. He wasn't being all, "I'm such a badass, no one can kill me". It was more of an "I wish I could die, but I just don't." He feels cursed by watching so many people die around him, yet he keeps on living. He's kind of warning people not to get too close, because in his cursed mind, THEY'LL be the ones getting killed. 

ITA.  I took Morgan's statement not in an "I AM INVINCIBLE!!!" way, but more in the nature of The Man Who Was Doomed To Live.

[Rachel RSL]

Man, Jesus....dummy. When did he turn into a bleeding heart? I mean, come on, even Morgan is killing people left, right & centre. Morgan! It pains me to say that I was on Team Tara because, you know, it's Tara. But, damn! Jesus needs to toughen up, it's a war FFS! I did find it amusing that the guy who had the gun to Jesus' head referred to him as a pretty boy and a beautiful man. Even the meanest of Saviors can't resist Tom Payne's pretty eyes.

15 hours ago, Tesla said:

I agree that Eric is probably a goner, but they are clearly trying to off him to set Aaron free for Jesus.  

I've never liked Eric (wuss) so I'll be glad if he dies. But, even though I really like Aaron, I don't want him to hook up with Jesus. For one, there's no chemistry between them at all IMO, and I also don't like the idea that a gay man will hook up with any other gay man just because he's there. Although, I fully recognize that there are slim pickings in the Zombie Apocalypse so I'm willing to let it slide.

I'm with everyone else who thinks this stupid Negan storyline has dragged on way too damn long. Not to mention, frankly, I'm tired of hearing about piss or shit every week. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[mrspidey]

15 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Jesus, Jesus!  'I'm going to war with you all, but I'm not killing anyone or letting you all kill (if I'm around to stop it) either.  I will win this war through pacifism!!'   Welcome, the new King of Idiots.

It's like the virus just left Morgan and has now infected Jesus.

[Pixiebomb]

I said it last week and I'll say it again. I think the writers are screwing with us. Us, this board. First, we have Negan trying to change Gabriel's name to Father Poopey Pants and now we actually have a character who has peed his pants.   

[ClareWalks]

45 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Those people were too stupid to live. Why were they all just sitting outside, perfectly exposed like that anyhow? The Saviors seemed to have gone from being this terrifying, well oiled machine to a bunch of bumbling morons. 

And WHY did she just let the goddamn thing bite her?! She had how many fuckin' guns, right there? It makes you wonder how the hell these folks survive this long. Killing walkers should be NOTHING for them.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, Pixiebomb said:

I said it last week and I'll say it again. I think the writers are screwing with us. Us, this board. First, we have Negan trying to change Gabriel's name to Father Poopey Pants and now we actually have a character who has peed his pants.   

Quite true, but FSP (when he was FPP) had no bladder control at all, whereas SPP* [SaviorPissPants] had to force it.  "Do you know how hard it is to piss yourself on command?  Its like your dick knows you're wearing pants."

[peach]

3 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Tara should have killed him.  Why Tara didn't kill him, why Jesus didn't kill him, and is taking prisoners, or why Morgan didn't kill at least that one Savior who was a prisoner, I do not know, but it will come back to bite them.

This annoys me more the longer I think about it.  Who is Jesus to demand she not kill the guy anyway.  I know there's not a lot of love for Tara on the board, but for crying out loud, she has WAY more experience being "in the shit" and battling psychos and their minions than Jesus does.  He's basically been a lackey for Gregory, protected at Hilltop, and would never take the lead. He'd rather let a pregnant lady who showed up yesterday take charge.  But now he can take charge and tell Tara who should or shouldn't be killed?   In a war.  She should have ignored him.

And their back and forth over "I'll tell Maggie" vs "I'll tell Rick" was dumb.  I get that Show is telling us that Maggie runs Hilltop now, because reasons, and it's her call as some kind of equal partner to Rick's faction in war.  But come on.  This is Rick's war, and he's the leader of it.  And these people JUST killed Glenn.  Why the fuck would Maggie be sentimental about crushing the Saviors?  Ugh. I Just hate it.  But I just cain't quit bowlegged Rick.

The show has promised ALL OUT WAR this season, that we would finally get satisfaction from all the drawn out misery, and instead we get Kinda Sorta War, with the 8th year in a row of To Kill or Not To Kill.  This dilemma has BEEN DONE.  Move on to the new, interesting dilemmas like what do they do with the baby?  What about other kids?   Do you take them and raise them in your own tribe now?  That's a new part of the story.  But as others have said, they will probably never come back to it.
 

Edited October 30, 2017 by peach

[Miles]

3 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I thought we were supposed to see that he was still alive, but Morgan didn't notice/didn't care because now all he wants to do is kill the Saviors.

Thought so at first, too. But he didn't blink or even slightly move. So pretty sure he was supposed to be dead and it was just really, really badly done.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Miles

[TheRabbi]

I really don't know why I'm still watching this show. It feels like the writers heard all the complaints from last season about too many boring speeches with not enough action and just threw a bunch of random pointless action 'war' scenes in. They forget that we don't mind low key scenes, if the story is interesting, and last season was not remotely interesting. I'm about 45 minutes into the episode as I write this but have been multitasking dueto boredom. 

[Janimo]

I'm really enjoying the comments here. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused by who was where and why. Sometimes I even wondered what the hell I was watching.

Jesus is lovely eye candy but what in the world are they gonna do with all those Saviors?

[Bryce Lynch]

21 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Man, Rick really sucks at searching buildings.

And I swear, whenever Ezekiel talks, it's all I can do to not fall asleep.

Well, it's not like Rick ever had a job that required him to know how to clear buildings. Oh wait.

I love Ezekiel's cheesy Kingspeak.  One of the few good parts of the episode was when he broke character to Carol with the "fake it till you make it" to remind us that it is all part of a character he created to inspire confidence in his people.

4 minutes ago, Janimo said:

I'm really enjoying the comments here. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused by who was where and why. Sometimes I even wondered what the hell I was watching.

Jesus is lovely eye candy but what in the world are they gonna do with all those Saviors?

With all the new allies, I was often confused about who the good guys and bad guys were.  I didn't know if I should be rooting for a lot of them to kill or be killed.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I can sympathize with the discontent of hard-to-follow story telling like was put on display in this episode, but I gotta tell ya'll;  if its a choice between this kind of episode - and an episode that is spent listening Negan verbally fellate himself, while making viewers' ears vomit, continually - I'll choose the stuff we got in this hour every time, and as many times as it takes on Sundays.

[Persnickety1]

15 hours ago, Miles said:

Whose idea was it to film a closeup of Ezekiel petting the air and then cgi a tiger under it? I mean seriously. The CGI for the tiger is pretty good and you probably could have gotten away with it from far away, but a closeup? Between this and the nonsensical storylines I'm not 100% sure that cocain must be cheap as hell whereever the writers are. Or was that the director?

So our heroes are there to kill everybody and only Jesus keeps them from doing so. Yet they wouldn't kill Negan last week, when they had the chance. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

I saw it coming from a mile away that the guy Rick killed was protecting children. Thought there would be a few more and slightly older, but same dif, I guess. Not very creative there.

Other funny thing: Woman goes down, one of the gay guys wait 5 seconds for the camera to swing up to him again, then finally screams her name. I actually did laugh out loud when I saw that. That was the worst direction I've ever seen anywhere. Who directed this episode, a three year old?

Speaking of which. The guy Morgan woke up next to, who was supposed to be dead, but was so clearly still alive. There is a reason they usually close the eyes in movies and TV shows when somebody is supposed to be dead. You can easily see in the eyes if somebody is alive or not and ittakes some serious work to hide it, which wasn't done here... that you could see him breathing didn't help.

Ahhh indeed...And he needs to go back to acting 101.  That "smile" people on some forums are referring to was actually him biting down on his blood capsule, an action that is supposed to be subtle and not like you're biting into a baby back rib.  

Ye gads, TWD...regain some control with the editing.  

Jesus, no matter how smokin' hot you are, if I were Tara, I'd have shot you *and* that lying sack of shit in the closet.  

Speaking of closets, apparently Coral couldn't catch Enid to lock her in one this time around.  I could have sworn I saw brief glimpses of her with the gang.  

Anyone else want to venture a guess that this season's snoozefest of a bottle episode will be all about Morales?  Hell, that's okay.  It's got to be more interesting than the Tara-centric episode of last season.

I personally love Clear Morgan.  It's nice to see one of the gang realize the only good Savior is a dead Savior.

All in all, I enjoyed this episode...but probably for all of the wrong reasons.  

Edited October 31, 2017 by Persnickety1

[AngelaHunter]

I didn't bother watching this last night and I'm kind of sorry I watched it tonight. More million rounds of ammo fired from the group who had no ammo recently. Kill everyone you come across, well, except for Negan. Don't touch him.

Whoever mentioned last week that Kirkman has some kind of adolescent fixation on piss and dicks and balls - no kidding. Someone else pissing his pants and tells us how hard it is to do that on command and his dick... yadda yadda, (I guess we're lucky he didn't mention his balls too)  yet even in his dire situation he takes note that Jesus is a "beautiful man." WTF? And why does everyone in a kill-or-be-killed situtation take the time to talk and talk and talk instead of killing whoever and getting the fuck away? Whatever.  Tara and Jesus - now there's an "A-team." Jesus is now the "All life is precious" poster boy, while Morgan is "Kill 'em all" and I think he should apologize to everyone for sermonizing to them on how evil they are when HE was on his short-lived"Sanctity of Life" kick.

Then we have the King pontificating and speechifying in the woods while dragging a tiger around, and Rick - whose hearing seems to be compromised just as badly as is Daryl's - getting jumped twice in as many minutes  Morales? Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn about him. In fact, I don't give a damn about any of them anymore. I think the only person I still like is Aaron, who does what needs doing without getting preachy, saccharine or irritating.

[GreyBunny]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

I'm wondering how does Shiva know who to attack and who not to attack. They need to explain that. 

I'm willing to handwave Shiva being an unusually smart tiger because that means at least ONE character on the show has some brains.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Because I'm that guy - before Jesus exits stage death, I really need someone to say this to him, without intentionally making it sound like they are obviously riffing on his namesake, in a high stress situation;

"Jesus, christ, we need a miracle right about now!". 

But first and foremost, someone needs to thump him upside the head and sternly lecture him that "Jesus, there's a new set of commandments.  And the first being 'you shall not hesitate in killing your fellow [adult] man and take no prisoners in war! (if they're in the enemy camp)'."

[BellyLaughter]

Definitely don't watch with the same intensity or sense of anticipation as I used to and therefore I was just confused with this episode....did I miss a scene where they outlined what they were setting out to achieve??? 

Also, so.  many.  guns.  

I thought all people were short on guns and particularly ammo in this new world but it was like an episode of almost constant gunfire.  

Annoyance far outweighs intrigue for me when watching these days....sigh.

[millennium]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I still don't remember her. And I spent most of this episode thinking she was Maggie. Where did Maggie go, anyway?

I couldn't figure out who was where either. 

I'm right there with you.   For the sake of clarity I break the cast down into two groups: Rick and Not Rick.   It makes things much easier.

And add me to the list of King Ezekiel fans.   My only quibble is that when people refer to "the King" my head detours to