S35.E04: I Don't Like Having Snakes Around

[Wings]

2 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Last night, I read on his twitter that he had never watched the show before and didn't know not tell other people. Oddly enough, I checked again this morning for the actual quote and it's gone. I'm not sure if CBS, one of his castmates or himself alone suggested he delete it. He seems like a really nice guy who can't lie, too. That's not a good combo for Survivor. LOL!!!

Not surprised! These castaways were not even born when this show began. It is an entirely different culture now.  Just apply and get on any reality show you can. Money can be made and a little fame to be had. Without some viewing history you just don't get it.  Jessica is not sharp either. Cole blabbed once and you confide in him again?!

Alan and Joe are not familiar either. Alan would still be there had he not done the stupid power couple and idol crazy bull shit. He had the potential to go far. 

I will be ready for an all Stars season if the stupid moves continue. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by wings707

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, himela said:

Exactly. He is stronger than Desi so the heroes would prefer to vote her out being the weakest of the two and keep him for challenges. That's why he wanted to become a jerk so that they decide to vote him out instead and he gets saved by the idol.

But even with Joe, they lost twice. The tribe dynamic is was(is) bad. I would have looked at him in terms of being an individual Immunity threat AND having to live with him going forward. 

[Bryce Lynch]

Did the person who received the Secret Not an Advantage envelope have to open it and "use" it or could they choose not to, before opening it?  I know it could only be used at that TC, but was it required?  I guess normally nobody would turn down a Secret "Advantage" handed to them just before the vote, though perhaps if they were 100% secure in the vote they might.  

It would be kind of cool if the rule is that you are not required to use it.  Now that at least one tribe and one member of another know that bad things can come in envelopes marked "Secret Advantage", TPTB could really screw with them by putting a real advantage in the next one.  That way the person receiving the envelope wouldn't know if he/she should open it or decline it.

[ljenkins782]

12 hours ago, ripple596 said:

I can't believe Devon wouldn't open the advantage before tribal to check it out & then throw it away once he found out it was against him. And if it really was an advantage, just seal it back up.

Because it's a tv show with cameras following them everywhere and producers who are tracking who has advantages and delivering them to the people who have been chosen to receive them if the first receiver is immune. I don't think they're just going to forget that they delivered a note to Devon and let it go if he mysteriously didn't have it at tribal. 

Quote

Weirdly, I enjoyed seeing Ashley and Alan work together this ep.

Considering how much I'd rooted for Alan to go after his paranoid freakout in the first episode, I was surprised to find myself really rooting for him and for his new forged-by-necessity alliance with Ashley. 

Then again, my eagerness to get Joe off my tv might have also colored my reaction. 

Quote

Quote

 

Joe is the literal WORST.  And I mean that quite literally.  Ass.

Man that was heartbreaking watching how sad Devon got.  Don’t do that again, show.

”I’m Joe!  I can read people’s faces!  I’m so goddamned brilliant I am going to tell you that over and over!  I am SO. DAMN. SMART.”

 

And if he calls anyone Baby Girl one more time I may actually slap him through my tv screen...

 

Seriously. "I read your face, baby girl, thank you!!!" So obnoxious. Unfortunately, there are no longer numbers to take his newly idol-less ass out if they lose again right away. Desi may now feel some sort of loyalty to him, leaving  a 2-2 split on the tribe. 

Quote

I don't pay super-close attention to the instructions, but I assumed that Jessica giving the "advantage" to Devon meant that he would be able to exercise it as Jessica would, that is, cancel the vote of someone on his tribe. I like that structure better - giving an advantage to someone on another tribe is one thing; crippling someone on another tribe rubs me the wrong way. 

I assumed the same and was really excited for him to get to cancel out Joe or Desi's vote, so I was bummed that it ended up blocking his vote. However, I liked the twist on the "advantage" a lot, it just happened to burn someone that I was rooting for. 

It took me back to the long lost days of the Survivor auction (RIP) where you could find yourself with a steak dinner or a glass of brown water from your own camp, lol.

I feel like the game is getting overrun with idols and advantages (see also: Cirie boot from last season), so having some that turn out not to be so advantageous are okay with me. 

Quote

Nevertheless, I am enjoying these "one-council-only; if you don't go, you've gotta gift it blind" games. I like the cross-tribal dynamic it introduces. In this particular case, it also increases the impact of Cole's big mouth, but sharing the info with others was not Jessica's best judgment.

Sharing anything at all with Cole now seems to be a confirmed bad idea, but I was more curious about the fact that she readily shared that info with Mike as well. Granted, that tribe hasn't gotten a ton of time and most of it seems to have been devoted to Cole and Jessica mooning over each other, but are they allied with Mike? 

Watching Mike and Jessica do the puzzle, it seemed like she hated his guts. She was clearly annoyed with him the entire time, not just when he was pinching her fingers in between the puzzle pieces, so I was fairly surprised to see her spill the beans about her advantage to him. 

Quote

I agree, I read about this Desi and it wasn't until tonight that I figured out who she is.  I was sure she was going home.  And I agree that this Roark person still isn't really on the show.

Yeah, I hadn't noticed either one of them until last night. I'd read the names in posts here, but I wasn't even sure whether they were men or women. 

Quote

 

And if the challenges involved pure strength, that would be a problem. But so far, I think the challenges have actually been a good mix of agility/dexterity, teamwork/communication, mental/puzzling, swimming, and such. The team with the biggest guys on it did the worst at unbraiding, flipping themselves, throwing a hoop with a rope on it accurately, and doing a puzzle. Joe, in fact, sucks at the agility and communication bits. 

Lauren, Ben, and Cole were great at unbraiding their ropes and flipping themselves over/around  the beams, as were Roark, Ryan, and JP. The biggest problem for the smallest people (Roark and Ryan) in that challenge appeared to be managing all the rope and, of course, hauling the heavy sled

 

The difference between Lauren/Ben/Cole and JP/Ryan/Roark while hauling that sled in was fairly comical. Ryan and Roark combined are probably lighter than any single member of the L/B/C crew, but hey, they got it done. 

I got what the one team was doing putting all of their puzzle pieces up in the frame and then trying to rearrange from there (I think I would have done the same), but it was still amusing to see Jessica and Mike's nearly completed, coherent "Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers" puzzle next the other group's completely jumbled mess of letters. 

[Cutty]

Dollar Store Tony Vlachos didn't read anyone's face. He was going to play the idol on himself no matter what. It was a stupid move by Alan and Ashley not to put their votes on Desi. This early in the game always assume the person with the idol is playing it for themselves, especially someone with an ego the size of Joe's.  

[Catronia]

I am so confused (as usual) by the tribal switch, though I like it. I really can't be bothered to learn new tribe names. So right now I'm "GO RED!" (love Lauren and Ben, and I hope they team up), and OK with the tribe with Ryan and Chrissy on it (though I don't like her much), and "lose, lose, lose" to the formerly Alan and Joe tribe, though with Alan gone, it might get more interesting, and I like Devon a lot. "This is not an advantage." LOL

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Just apply and get on any reality show you can

You don’t have to do that anymore. They are all recruited via social media or Youtube. The pitches on Shark Tank are recruited at trade shows and conventions, etc.  It’s a “cast” show now.

That second puzzle wore me out watching it. 

I want to hug Ryan... and sqeeze him, and love him, and call him George. :)

Ashley’s acne is bothering me.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I really don't get why people act so shocked by a tribe swap. Their existence, let alone the timing, is not unusual. 

I'm sure Production just tells them to pretend like they're surprised. It's a TV show first and foremost.

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

OT, but I always laugh when Gabon is brought up as an example of Survivor at its worst. I LOVED Gabon and Bob is one of my favorite winners of all time. I'm such a weirdo. 

I loved Gabon, too. I despise Bob though and he is hands-down my least fave winner.

8 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Watching Mike and Jessica do the puzzle, it seemed like she hated his guts. She was clearly annoyed with him the entire time, not just when he was pinching her fingers in between the puzzle pieces, so I was fairly surprised to see her spill the beans about her advantage to him.

Yea, that challenge made it abundantly clear than Jessica is not a Mike fan. But I understood why she told Mike about her advantage anyway and I think it was a good idea. The 2 of them need to stick together now and in particular she needs to make Mike feel like he's with them so he doesn't try to join Lauren/Ben to break up Jessica/Cole.

7 hours ago, Cutty said:

Dollar Store Tony Vlachos didn't read anyone's face. He was going to play the idol on himself no matter what. It was a stupid move by Alan and Ashley not to put their votes on Desi. This early in the game always assume the person with the idol is playing it for themselves, especially someone with an ego the size of Joe's.  

They didn't know for sure he had the idol though. I mean, yea, Joe's outburst kinda gave it away, but Joe's an idiot so that could've just as easily just been him being his usual dickish self. And it was definitely the better play to get rid of Joe.

I loved this episode. It was hilarious.

I literally rolled over Chrissy's "Oh my gosh, Ryan loves me! He really loves me!" confessional. I was stunned she bought Ryan's bullshit. And speaking of Ryan, he barely did anything in this ep, but I continue to hate him anyway.

I'm bummed Alan got booted because I found him fun to watch, but also because I was kinda into the idea of him and Ashley being forced to work together. I liked Ashley more in this ep than I have in any others. I hope her and Devon can pull Desi in and get rid of Joe and then those 3 can stick together. I feel like Devon is pretty enamored with Ashley already. I hope she can get him to dump Ryan eventually.

7 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Ashley’s acne is bothering me.

I howled at this. So mean, but also same. It was kind of distracting.

I continue to be annoyed by the "Jessica is just a love struck schoolgirl" edit. So gross. I don't even like her, but it's just really bothering me. I especially hate that it's actually really working with viewers.

[Wings]

51 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

Just apply and get on any reality show you can

You don’t have to do that anymore. They are all recruited via social media or Youtube. The pitches on Shark Tank are recruited at trade shows and conventions, etc.  It’s a “cast” show now.

That second puzzle wore me out watching it. 

I want to hug Ryan... and sqeeze him, and love him, and call him George. :)

Ashley’s acne is bothering me.

Yeah I am aware of all the avenues they find to recruit people.  For the sake of verbal  short hand I used the word apply because some do apply to the general casting agencies.  Robyn Kass found Cody for BB that way and maybe some others.

I like Ryan, too.  Why do you call him George?   Ashley?  

ETA.  I had to look her up.  To me she was half of the power couple, never knew her name.  LOL 

Edited October 19, 2017 by wings707

[valandsend]

1 hour ago, jay741982 said:

The disadvantage plus the idol just made a mockery of the tribal council.  An occasional blindside set up by players playing the game can be fun but artificial gimmicks thrown in wily-nily makes the whole thing just a lottery ticket ruling out any strategy.  Hate that.

Agreed. I know the players are at the mercy of the producers' rules, but giving Devon the disadvantage seemed really unfair to me. Unlike Jessica (and Chrissy when she was given the previous advantage), he had no choice but to use it. Maybe the intent was for future players to question using any sealed letter marked "advantage." 

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, valandsend said:

Agreed. I know the players are at the mercy of the producers' rules, but giving Devon the disadvantage seemed really unfair to me. Unlike Jessica (and Chrissy when she was given the previous advantage), he had no choice but to use it. Maybe the intent was for future players to question using any sealed letter marked "advantage." 

But it's not about him or whether it's fair to him.  The advantage was found by Jessica.  It's her advantage and it gave her the power to negate a vote.  That's exactly what she did.  I suppose the only cruel part was making Devon think that he was getting an advantage when he actually didn't.  It did however make for more entertaining TV.

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

 

I want to hug Ryan... and sqeeze him, and love him, and call him George. :)

 

 

48 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I like Ryan, too.  Why do you call him George?   Ashley?  

 

I believe it is a Bugs Bunny reference. There is a giant who likes to pick up Sylvester the cat and discuss how he is going to hug him and squeeze him and call him George. I use this phrase with my five year old all the time who can be counted on to squirm and wiggle and tell me to let him down and that his name is not George.

[survivinmt]

I didn't realize how much I liked Devin until he got the "advantage". That stunk. Glad he was not the one voted out. I think he was quite savvy, with the not trusting what Joe tells him and relying on his gut feeling about the connections (Ashley) he had. Also he is not a blabbermouth, neither at camp nor at TC, which is an asset. I do always worry when people talk and then end the conversation with a handshake or hug. Desi was watching and read the situation correctly. Just say - "Hey, I'd hug you now, but who knows who is watching - so just consider yourself hugged." "Plus I stink - and you stink - let's keep our stinks to ourselves."

Cole may not necessarily be dumb but he certainly doesn't THINK anything through. Blabs the answer to the clue to Joe. Blabs about everything really and so quickly. Good thing that advantage was so short-lived. May have worked more to his advantage to wait until after the IC to KNOW that they weren't going to TC and then let people know. Builds some trust (?) without totally selling out Jessica.

I am pretty sure that Ryan's reason for choosing Chrissy was "woman who is weak and barfing at challenges". Not sure where she is seeing halos and unicorns.

[KimberStormer]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't like to throw around such accusations, lightly, but you, my friend, are an anti-nerdite...a RABID anti-nerdite. :)

Of course Ryan wasn't being genuine.  But to call him "vacuous" is absurd.  Vacuous means brainless.  A vacuous player (I can think of one whose name rhymes with Cole) would have been genuine with Chrissy and said, "Well, huh, huh, huh...actually I chose you because I wanted to sabotage your tribe and you were clearly the most useless weakling on the island, huh, huh, huh.!"   

Telling the truth in that spot would have been idiotic, and also unnecessarily blunt and cruel to Chrissy.  He played it brilliantly.  It looks like he gained another ally.  

As for him being soulless, a) In many situations that is the way you should be in Survivor b) Both Simone and Patrick spoke very highly of him in their exit interviews.  They said he was very funny and well liked in the tribe.  I think your anti-nerdism has clouded your perception of him.  

I was thinking of vacuous, adj. 1.without contents; empty: the vacuous air.  Of course he should not tell her the truth, I wasn't disagreeing with that, just with the characterization of that exchange as genuine.

Guilty as charged on the anti-nerdism, but Adam Klein just recently won Survivor: MAGA and I am still pretty sore over it. 

[NutMeg]

That was entertaining. I like how the reshuffle is forcing people to play differently. It's interesting that this season we see a lot of people playing, with the most visible and loudest men playing hilariously badly, and a large number of women playing much better and in a more subtle way - so far, I've already been impressed by Ali, Ashley, Chrissy, Desi, Jessica and Lauren, whether it's for reading the room correctly and deciding rightly to stay under the radar, as Desi did, or Ashley earlier in the season, or for reading the room correctly and deciding to exploit the situation (Lauren, Chrissy). This may be a female winner season! Although I also think that some of the quietest male players may equally be playing good social games. We'll see. I think the season has finally started!

14 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I sort of remember Ryan saying he was going to use his advantage to form a connection with a player outside his tribe.  That made me think he thought she would be strong enough to stay awhile.  Maybe he saw enough of her on the boat to see she was shrewd, and maybe smart?  I did like that they seem a non-typical alliance, and it's reminding me (a little) of Cochran and Dawn.  The difference is that Chrissy seems more stable emotionally than Dawn.

I like these atypical alliances and we have had quite a few of them already this season. Chrissy/Ryan is very much the same dynamics as Chrissy/Ben, a (potentially) stronger alliance because it is one that wouldn't necessarily be expected, was born out of necessity and mutual interests and is kept relatively hidden from the other players. Dawn/Cochran was very different in that they knew each other from their fist season and decided to let bygone be bygone and to play together, but I don't think it was rally a surprise to the other players (but I may be wrong, my memories of that season are slightly fuzzy).

I'm still on the fence regarding the mysterious advantages that are randomly distributed, but one thing I like is that people have to use them right away, with the potential of affecting relationships with other players down the road. This time, Jessica unwittingly helped Devon, who didn't have to show his hand, and didn't change the outcome of the vote. However, the fact that Cole informed everyone that she had that advantage means that the 4 who survived Tribal Council will likely learn that the penalty came from her, and we don't know yet how they will react to that. 

[RedheadZombie]

So I finally saw how good looking Devon was last night.  I'm not sure if he looks different with the buff on.  Before he always seemed to have a hang-dog expression, IMO.  Last night I thought he looked like a mini-Jason Momoa.  All he needed was guyliner, and a scar bisecting his eyebrow (and at least fifty pounds of muscle).

[LizBug]

The "Secret Advantage" MUST be played was probably a reaction to the "Secret Advantage" not being played in the first tribal council.  The powers that be wanted to ensure that there was no choice.

I've been watching Ryan during the challenges.  He's not muscle-strong but he's agile and quick.  In many of the mini-races, he's among the first over the obstacle.

Don't trust Chrissy.  She wasn't all friendly with Ryan until he told her about their "Secret Advantage" connection.  Wonder if she told him that she didn't use it?

Joe's more savvy than he appears.  Good for him creating a diversion so he would get the votes and could use his idol.

BTW, have we seen any other idols this season?  Maybe there's only one and it has to be played before another idol would appear.  And, since Joe is in a different camp now, would he think to look for an idol/clue in a similar location to the one he already found?

[Jobiska]

I felt like Jessica's tearful confessional was not really about being betrayed by her love interest, or at least not totally; she spoke about self-doubt about whether she was stupid to have trusted someone, and to me it sounded like this is an internal conversation she's had several times during her adulthood.  I think that it's like me and my fear of appearing needy due to a relative's "learned helplessness"--I probably don't look needy at all but I worry unnecessarily that I do--and she from past experience, whether rationally or not, worries about being stupid (and appearing stupid) to trust someone who then betrays her trust, even if in this case it's just a crush betraying game trust rather than something longer-reaching.  

[elizacat]

I hate to say it but so far I am so bored by this season I couldn't tell you one person's name.

Damn i've never felt this before!

[RedheadZombie]

38 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I was thinking of vacuous, adj. 1.without contents; empty: the vacuous air.  Of course he should not tell her the truth, I wasn't disagreeing with that, just with the characterization of that exchange as genuine.

Guilty as charged on the anti-nerdism, but Adam Klein just recently won Survivor: MAGA and I am still pretty sore over it. 

Did you shove them into lockers in high school?  ;-)

[ljenkins782]

15 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I sort of remember Ryan saying he was going to use his advantage to form a connection with a player outside his tribe.  That made me think he thought she would be strong enough to stay awhile.  Maybe he saw enough of her on the boat to see she was shrewd, and maybe smart?  I did like that they seem a non-typical alliance, and it's reminding me (a little) of Cochran and Dawn.  The difference is that Chrissy seems more stable emotionally than Dawn.

He was giving her the idol to save herself, that was the insurance that she would be staying awhile. I'm pretty sure he said he wanted to give it to someone likely to be on the outs to save them and hopefully send a strong and/or well-connected player home instead. 

Quote

 

Quote

If Cole had actually told everyone, he’d have been ok. He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem.

 

I thought Jessica already told Mike about her advantage, after she told Cole? So there was nothing for Cole to tell to Mike.

 

Mike was there when Jessica told Cole. It was Cole himself who would have been out of the loop if he hadn't already been told since it looks like Ben and Lauren only shared with Mike. 

I'm still not sure exactly how Cole thought he was going to get away with telling the others without Jessica finding out. There are 5 people out there, the odds of them not talking to each other are very slim. 

Quote

So I finally saw how good looking Devon was last night.  I'm not sure if he looks different with the buff on.  Before he always seemed to have a hang-dog expression, IMO. 

He usually does have an open-mouthed, catching flies look to him, which has made it hard for me to find him attractive, despite those eyes. But agreed that last night, he showed flashes of actual expression that made him look much better. He needs to work on his resting face, lol. 

Quote

 

I did not like the way this was handled. When Ryan was given a "one-time-only" advantage on Day 1, it was his to use (if his tribe went to TC) or to pass along to someone else whose tribe did go to TC. He wasn't able to use the advantage for or against someone on another tribe. So, I naturally assumed that's how this "one-time only" advantage would work: either Jessica could use it, if her tribe when to TC, or else she'd pass it along to someone on the losing tribe and they would use it against someone. 

So when Devon opened it and it said his vote was blocked, my immediate assumption was that Jessica had given it to either Joe or Desi, or to Alan or Ashley, and one of them had used it on Devon - which made no sense if they were all counting on him as a swing vote.

 

I knew it had to have been given directly to Devon because it was in his bag without them showing us anyone else getting it, which meant producer given. But I had also assumed that he was going to be able to cancel out someone else's vote. 

As for the show explaining it, I actually preferred that we didn't find out until he did. Eliminating the swing vote moments before the actual vote made it much more dramatic. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by ljenkins782

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't pay super-close attention to the instructions, but I assumed that Jessica giving the "advantage" to Devon meant that he would be able to exercise it as Jessica would, that is, cancel the vote of someone on his tribe. I like that structure better - giving an advantage to someone on another tribe is one thing; crippling someone on another tribe rubs me the wrong way. 

I did not like the way this was handled. When Ryan was given a "one-time-only" advantage on Day 1, it was his to use (if his tribe went to TC) or to pass along to someone else whose tribe did go to TC. He wasn't able to use the advantage for or against someone on another tribe. So, I naturally assumed that's how this "one-time only" advantage would work: either Jessica could use it, if her tribe when to TC, or else she'd pass it along to someone on the losing tribe and they would use it against someone. 

So when Devon opened it and it said his vote was blocked, my immediate assumption was that Jessica had given it to either Joe or Desi, or to Alan or Ashley, and one of them had used it on Devon - which made no sense if they were all counting on him as a swing vote.

Bottom line, the show did a crap job explaining how this worked, because it wasn't consistent with how Ryan's "one-time only" advantage worked.

[ProfCrash]

I was fine with how the advantage worked. In both cases, they were meant to be used to hamper the tribe at tribal council. Ryan had to send it to someone on the losing tribe. It was in Ryan's best interest to weaken the opposition tribe so he should have sent it to someone he thought might be voted out. He would make that decision based on what he saw at the challenge and his knowledge of Survivor, so send it to one of the older women who are traditionally voted out at the first tribal. Chrissy did not perform all that great at the first challenge and she is older so she was the best person for Ryan to send the idol to. In doing so, he could saddle the tribe with a player who is not as strong, which would benefit Ryan's tribe.

Jessica's advantage allowed her to try and target the tribe at tribal council in a way that would help her tribe. She wanted to make sure that someone who was not from her original tribe and might vote against her former tribe mates. By choosing Devon, she removes the swing vote from play and can help to save her tribe. This benefits her.

People are assuming that Ryan's advantage was really a positive thing for him and Chrissy but only because he sent it to someone who was voting with the majority. Does Ryan even know that Chrissy did not use the idol? If her tribe had voted for Chrissy and she played the idol and saved herself, one of the stronger dudes goes home and not Chrissy.

[azshadowwalker]

Cole is an idiot and should not be trusted by anyone. Joe is awful, and I hate that he is still around. My only hope is that flushing the idol costs his ass big time and in an epic way. 

Alan, I kind of dug you, never thought you were the Crazy Black Man,  and really hated to see you go. Even worse was seeing things go in Joe's favor. I can only imagine having to deal with that fucker as a parolee. 

I hate idols and advantages. Did I ever mention that? 

Edited October 19, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[candall]

Sigh.  We're at the point where they overestimate my commitment level.  Just when I get people organized into their somewhat arbitrarily labeled groups and get a grip on the relationships, they blow that all up and make new groups with names composed of even more arbitrary nonsense syllables:  wa, le, so, ve, gu . . .  Nope.  Now I just wait for the merge, and individual identity.

 

Someone please tell me there's a clip on the cutting room floor where Jessica mused, "Hmm, maybe it would have been better if I'd just kept my mouth shut about my secret advantage in the first place."

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, valandsend said:

Agreed. I know the players are at the mercy of the producers' rules, but giving Devon the disadvantage seemed really unfair to me. Unlike Jessica (and Chrissy when she was given the previous advantage), he had no choice but to use it. Maybe the intent was for future players to question using any sealed letter marked "advantage." 

While, I was upset at the outcome, I'm looking at this a different way. The advantage was never really Devon's. It was Jessica's advantage from beginning to end. She got to block someone's vote, whether her team ended up at TC or not. Since her team had immunity, she just got to block the vote of a person from another tribe. That's all. It wasn't like the was giving her advantage to Devon. So it wasn't about him having a choice in using it; he didn't really USE anything. She did. But I do think they handled it in a way that made it kind of confusing. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I was fine with how the advantage worked. In both cases, they were meant to be used to hamper the tribe at tribal council. 

Well, it worked out fine for the show, because we were deliberately misled to believe that Devon had been given an advantage . . . not a disadvantage. We went into tribal council thinking he had the upper hand. When he opened that paper, we all gasped in surprise. That's what the show wanted. They blind-sided us. And sure, that's fun, but I I don't like the show taking me a for a ride like that. They fully knew and expected I'd assume this one worked the same way Ryan's did and they pulled the rug out from under me. 

Now, sure, a lot of people are going to think that was fun and they enjoyed the surprise. But . . . I was just confused. I wondered who Jessica gave the advantage to (Desi? Joe? Ashley? Alan?) and who used it on Devon. I couldn't figure it out and I didn't understand why they didn't show us who got it.

On an unrelated note, Devon is pretty. He's not Malcolm-pretty, but he's pretty. He doesn't seem real bright, given what little we're shown of him speaking, but at least he's not as proactively stupid as Cole.

Edited October 19, 2017 by iMonrey

[piequinn35]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, it worked out fine for the show, because we were deliberately misled to believe that Devon had been given an advantage . . . not a disadvantage. We went into tribal council thinking he had the upper hand. When he opened that paper, we all gasped in surprise. That's what the show wanted. They blind-sided us. And sure, that's fun, but I I don't like the show taking me a for a ride like that. They fully knew and expected I'd assume this one worked the same way Ryan's did and they pulled the rug out from under me. 

Now, sure, a lot of people are going to think that was fun and they enjoyed the surprise. But . . . I was just confused. I wondered who Jessica gave the advantage to (Desi? Joe? Ashley? Alan?) and who used it on Devon. I couldn't figure it out and I didn't understand why they didn't show us who got it.

 

Jeff said in ew.com

Quote

JEFF PROBST: This is the season of secrets. The idea is to add another layer to the game. The original note was an advantage. Jessica could block a vote. That’s an advantage. The second layer was, if she did not go to Tribal she could block a vote of someone who was going to tribal. This is where it gets really fun. A secret “advantage” (which it is) shows up in Devon’s bag. Anybody would assume this is a good thing. And that’s what Devon assumed. But it’s all about perspective. It is definitely an advantage — for Jessica —  to be used against Devon. She wisely wanted to protect her own and disrupt the others.

It was all Jessica's adv.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, piequinn35 said:

Jeff said in ew.com

It was all Jessica's adv.

How would it have worked if Jessica's tribe lost and went to tribal council?  IIRC, the writing on the advantage said that it would be delivered anonymously.  Would the person in her own tribe also have had it delivered to them before TC and open it just before the vote only to find it was a disadvantage to them?

[piequinn35]

If Jessica's tribe lost, not delivered though she would just say "Jeff, I'm gonna block <insert name>'s vote"

The second layer of the adv was really confusing, we thought Devon had the "adv" but he was the recipient of the adv of Jessica.

[spiderpig]

I feel I should comment here just to keep my membership active.

I liked Jeff's green shirt.

[simplyme]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, it worked out fine for the show, because we were deliberately misled to believe that Devon had been given an advantage . . . not a disadvantage. 

I will politely disagree with you here. I don't think the show deliberately confused people. I think they expected people to follow along, and there were people who followed. I think the editing and the part of the note Jessica read out loud could have been clearer, but I don't think this was a case of deliberate misdirection. I think it's a case where we should apply Hanlon's Razor*: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

*Hanlon's razor wikipedia explanation for you geeks out there: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

[meep.meep]

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

OT, but I always laugh when Gabon is brought up as an example of Survivor at its worst. I LOVED Gabon and Bob is one of my favorite winners of all time. I'm such a weirdo. 

Bob and his fake idols, Crystal screaming about how horrible Randy was as she was voting him out, Taj and her magnificence, the Sugar Shack, elephants -what's not to like?

I'm glad that I was not the only person confused by how Devon's "advantage" turned into something horrible.

On the shallow side - how many idols does Ryan have shoved into his red underwear?  For a skinny little nerd, his package is more than impressive.

[amazingracefan]

8 hours ago, himela said:

Well I am a minority as it seems but I like how Joe is playing and I also like how Russell played! What can I say, I love me some villains!

Edit to add something kinda irrelevant: Tony Vlachos is Greek and it always entertains me the way people pronounce his surname. In Greek 'ch' is pronounced like we say 'hey' or 'horse'. So his surname is pronounced Vlahos. Just saying. :P

I don't really remember/know the last names normally.  'Vlahos' wouldn't help me much though as I'd pronounce the 'a' short, Vlaihos would be better.

40 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, it worked out fine for the show, because we were deliberately misled to believe that Devon had been given an advantage . . . not a disadvantage.

I don't think I was misled, it wasn't his advantage.  Though it was a contrast to the first one which was an advantage for both the giver and receiver.

Edited October 19, 2017 by amazingracefan

[MissEwa]

Another reason to give Devon the (dis)advantage is that it potentially throws the target onto him, which pulls the target away from the people you want to protect and onto the person on that tribe most likely to be a strong challenge threat down the line - at least based on outward appearance.

Having slept on it, I think Jessica's move was fine but I still think that if she was choosing Devon to make an idol-flush more likely, it was riskier than it needed to be. And I 100% get why she told Cole about the advantage when she got it - although I'm not sure why she told Mike. Sure, there's a forced alliance there from being on the same tribe previously but it didn't seem like they got along. BUT I think the golden Survivor rule should have applied here of not telling anyone. At least not until after the challenge - then, when she knew how she was going to have to play it, she could garner favour among her tribe by bringing them into the discussion of whose vote to remove. 

I like the single-serve advantages that you can't keep, but I didn't like this one. Not quite sure if I can articulate why. The vote steal itself is fine, but the transfer is iffy. There's a distance there from the person with the advantage to the effect of the advantage that seems to go against the way Survivor works, to me, but YMMV. 

That's it! We keep comparing Joe to Tony because of the physical similarities but Joe is actually a Russell. Obnoxious and abrasive and completely lacking in charisma... and with a zero chance of ever winning this game. 

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

So I finally saw how good looking Devon was last night.  I'm not sure if he looks different with the buff on. 

His face is really gorgeous and I hadn't noticed that before last night. His buff does make the difference, I think, because his hair is TURRRIBLE. Also, I've been trying to figure out who he reminds me of and last night I realized it was Martin the dog from Downward Dog. (I mean that as a compliment; I love that dumb dog.)

3 hours ago, survivinmt said:

I am pretty sure that Ryan's reason for choosing Chrissy was "woman who is weak and barfing at challenges". Not sure where she is seeing halos and unicorns.

What got me was that she said something like, "what did he see that told him I'm a kind person?" She has this off-putting way of complimenting herself, and she is the only person I've seen on Survivor who can make me feel I'm being condescended to just by listening to her confessionals.

I finally know who everyone is and what their names are, but I still don't care.

[iMonrey]

Quote

JEFF PROBST: This is the season of secrets. The idea is to add another layer to the game. The original note was an advantage. Jessica could block a vote. That’s an advantage. The second layer was, if she did not go to Tribal she could block a vote of someone who was going to tribal. This is where it gets really fun. A secret “advantage” (which it is) shows up in Devon’s bag. Anybody would assume this is a good thing. And that’s what Devon assumed. But it’s all about perspective. It is definitely an advantage — for Jessica —  to be used against Devon. She wisely wanted to protect her own and disrupt the others.

The season of secrets the show is keeping from the audience? Yay. You know, when you have to read extraneous material like interviews and social media to understand what happened, the show isn't doing its job of explaining it.

Quote

I don't think I was misled, it wasn't his advantage.  Though it was a contrast to the first one which was an advantage for both the giver and receiver.

But it was Chrissy's advantage, once Ryan passed it along to her. Why should we have thought it would be any different? How many viewers here understood, from the moment Devon found the "advantage" paper before TC, that Jessica had targeted him and blocked his vote? And weren't the least bit surprised when he read it aloud at TC and revealed his vote had been blocked?

Those who knew from the beginning that he had no advantage, I congratulate your insight. The rest of us, we were fooled, because it didn't work the same way it did when Chrissy inherited it from Ryan.

[Silver Raven]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The season of secrets the show is keeping from the audience? Yay. You know, when you have to read extraneous material like interviews and social media to understand what happened, the show isn't doing its job of explaining it.

But we did know about it.

[ljenkins782]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The season of secrets the show is keeping from the audience? Yay. You know, when you have to read extraneous material like interviews and social media to understand what happened, the show isn't doing its job of explaining it.

But it was Chrissy's advantage, once Ryan passed it along to her. Why should we have thought it would be any different? How many viewers here understood, from the moment Devon found the "advantage" paper before TC, that Jessica had targeted him and blocked his vote? And weren't the least bit surprised when he read it aloud at TC and revealed his vote had been blocked?

Those who knew from the beginning that he had no advantage, I congratulate your insight. The rest of us, we were fooled, because it didn't work the same way it did when Chrissy inherited it from Ryan.

Why does it matter? We found out that it was not an advantage when Devon found out, why would we need to know that beforehand? Even if this could be classified as "misdirection," how is it any different than the red herrings they throw into every episode so that the audience won't immediately know who is going home? If the show intended for the audience to know everything ahead of time, they would just flash the bootee's photo up on the screen in the very beginning and then work backwards to tell the story of why. 

I don't really see how this could be called keeping a secret from the audience when we're all aware of what happened. It's not Devon just randomly didn't vote and they never said why, we saw him find the note in his bag, he couldn't read it until tribal so once he did, everyone  (including the audience) is up to speed. We never saw Jessica choose him, just like we never saw Ryan choose Chrissy, we only found out when they showed the recipients finding the notes. 

Quote

Bob and his fake idols, Crystal screaming about how horrible Randy was as she was voting him out, Taj and her magnificence, the Sugar Shack, elephants -what's not to like?

Taj was on Tocantins, not Gabon. Which I guess I'm glad about, she certainly deserved a better crowd than the duds on Gabon, Tocantins had a better mix of people. 

[piequinn35]

For me, I thought that when Jessica passed the adv, it meant she passed the adv for others to use it, I got confused when Devon got it instead of a Healer (Joe or Desi) I missed the part (second layer) when Jessica said that she can block someone from the losing tribe if her tribe did not go to TC. It was not a misdirection, I just have to pay attention to what was being said during the show. :P

[millennium]

18 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

I'm with you.  I can't remember the last time we were this far in and I was still learning names.

I thought the New Red Team would be the "weakest" by just eyeballing the shuffle and they're beasting right now.  Good for them.  But whatever their new tribal name is sounds like "yellow."  I was constantly confused by Jeff calling "Yellow" in the lead when it was clearly Red.  Whatever.

Joe?  Is a dick.

My interest level is so low that it's even too much work to know the new tribe names.  

I think I'm more interested in the shadow cast -- the faceless ones who go through the motions when Jeff is describing how the challenge works.   At least there's no Joe there.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

What got me was that she said something like, "what did he see that told him I'm a kind person?" She has this off-putting way of complimenting herself, and she is the only person I've seen on Survivor who can make me feel I'm being condescended to just by listening to her confessionals.

 

Yes.  Apart from Joe, I dislike Chrissy the most. She is so narcissistic and condescending.  She acts like she is the smartest person in the room and makes sure that people at home know it.  Every word that comes out of her mouth is said deliberately with the intent to show that she has a plan and is going to talk in plain English so viewers will bow down to her brilliance when she wins.

The part about her being a good person which was why she was "chosen" was gag inducing.  Frankly I think he chose her because he is a small and physically weak person, and he didn't want his advantage to go to a big strong man like JP or Alan or Ben.   He wanted it to go to a weak person because he sympathized.  Thus explaining why he gave it to the old vomiting lady.

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well, it worked out fine for the show, because we were deliberately misled to believe that Devon had been given an advantage . . . not a disadvantage. We went into tribal council thinking he had the upper hand. When he opened that paper, we all gasped in surprise. That's what the show wanted. They blind-sided us. And sure, that's fun, but I I don't like the show taking me a for a ride like that. They fully knew and expected I'd assume this one worked the same way Ryan's did and they pulled the rug out from under me. 

Now, sure, a lot of people are going to think that was fun and they enjoyed the surprise. But . . . I was just confused. I wondered who Jessica gave the advantage to (Desi? Joe? Ashley? Alan?) and who used it on Devon. I couldn't figure it out and I didn't understand why they didn't show us who got it.

On an unrelated note, Devon is pretty. He's not Malcolm-pretty, but he's pretty. He doesn't seem real bright, given what little we're shown of him speaking, but at least he's not as proactively stupid as Cole.

When I get home I'm going to see if I saved the episode and rewatch the part where Jessica finds the advantage.  Because I knew 100% right away that if her tribe wasn't going to council, that she could choose whose vote to block on the other tribe.  Never did I think she was going to give the advantage to someone who would then have the power to block someone's vote.  I knew as soon as Devon got it that she had blocked his vote.  

As far as "but that's not how Ryan's worked"... well, I'd say both were similar.  Ryan found the advantage.  The advantage was for him to give immunity to someone.  If his tribe went to council, he could use the idol on himself or someone else, just like always.  If his tribe didn't go to tribal, then he chose who to give the immunity to, who then could choose whether to use it on him/herself, someone else, or not at all.  But the choice of giving the idol was Ryan's.   Here, the power was to negate a vote and the choice was Jessica's and Jessica's alone.

[cooksdelight]

6 hours ago, wings707 said:

I like Ryan, too.  Why do you call him George?

[peachmangosteen]

59 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

For me, I thought that when Jessica passed the adv, it meant she passed the adv for others to use it, I got confused when Devon got it instead of a Healer (Joe or Desi) I missed the part (second layer) when Jessica said that she can block someone from the losing tribe if her tribe did not go to TC. It was not a misdirection, I just have to pay attention to what was being said during the show. :P

Yea this. Initially I was like, 'wait what?' when Devon was blocked from voting, but that's entirely because I don't pay attention to some aspects of the episodes. I don't think the show was trying to mislead viewers in this case. They plainly showed Jessica reading the exact rules. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Star Aristille]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think she fully understood what it was doing.  I haven't gone back and rewatched but I thought the wording was something like "if your tribe does not go to tribal council, you will transfer this to someone on the tribe that goes to tribal council and that person's vote will be blocked". At least that's what I thought she read, because I understood the purpose immediately.  She gets to block a vote of somebody who is going to be voting at tribal council.

She very clearly said she was going to use this to help the Healers.  So if she thought that the transferee was going to be able to use it to block someone's vote, then she would have given it to Desi.  And if this is the way it would have operated, then that person would likely have been able to open it up before TC so they could do some thinking about how to use it, much the same way Chrissy got her transferred advantage and was debating what to do.  Instead, Devin was simply informed at TC that his vote was blocked.  

I think Jessica erred.  If she was trying to protect Healers she had to have known that the two Heroes would and together against them.  I would have blocked Alan's vote.  If Devin votes with the Healers then it's potentially 3-1 against a Hero.  If he votes with Ashley then it's 2-2.  But being blocked, it's likely 2-2 no matter what    At least by blocking Alan there was a chance to get the 3-1.  She must have really counted on Joe using his idol.  

Actually, Jessica knew that Joe had the idol.  I fully believe that she expected him to play it if she caused a 2-2 deadlock.  And sure enough, he did play it and break the deadlock.  So I don't think she erred at all.  She took a risk, sure, but it wasn't an error.  She probably tried to anticipate Joe's move and did so correctly.

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I believe it is a Bugs Bunny reference. There is a giant who likes to pick up Sylvester the cat and discuss how he is going to hug him and squeeze him and call him George. I use this phrase with my five year old all the time who can be counted on to squirm and wiggle and tell me to let him down and that his name is not George.

Actually, he picks up Daffy Duck, not Sylvester.

[eel2178]

21 hours ago, simplyme said:

I wonder if/when they'll switch to two tribes?

It will be two more episodes. When they are down to twelve players, it will split into to tribes of six (if they stay true to form).

[needschocolate]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Right. Cole THOUGHT telling the other two was a good move, because he would garner trust with them. But he didn't really need to, considering he came in with a built-in three person alliance. And I think maintaining the trust of THOSE people would be more beneficial than trying to foster trust with new people. I think he is an idiot. 

And there was nothing the others could gain from knowing - they couldn't use her advantage to get rid of her or to somehow influence whose vote she blocked.  All he did was show them that he was a blabbermouth who shouldn't be trusted (while he was trying to gain their trust).

 

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think Jessica erred.  If she was trying to protect Healers she had to have known that the two Heroes would and together against them.  I would have blocked Alan's vote.  If Devin votes with the Healers then it's potentially 3-1 against a Hero.  If he votes with Ashley then it's 2-2.  But being blocked, it's likely 2-2 no matter what    At least by blocking Alan there was a chance to get the 3-1.  She must have really counted on Joe using his idol.  

I agree that she should have given it to one of the two former Heroes.  She said she wanted to create chaos, and giving it to Devin would create more chaos than giving it a former Hero.  

 

9 hours ago, wings707 said:

Not surprised! These castaways were not even born when this show began. 

They may have been too young to watch it, but they were probably born.  the first season aired in the summer of 2000.  

 

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

 

I believe it is a Bugs Bunny reference. There is a giant who likes to pick up Sylvester the cat and discuss how he is going to hug him and squeeze him and call him George. I use this phrase with my five year old all the time who can be counted on to squirm and wiggle and tell me to let him down and that his name is not George.

I think Bugs Bunny was referencing Of Mice and Men. There are two main characters in the book - George, a small guy, and Lenny, a big, slow-witted guy.  Lenny likes to pet the rabbits and gets a little rougher than he should.  Lenny says, "Can I pet the rabbits, George?" which was a popular quote, when I was younger and dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. 

 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Frankly I think he chose her because he is a small and physically weak person, and he didn't want his advantage to go to a big strong man like JP or Alan or Ben.   He wanted it to go to a weak person because he sympathized.  Thus explaining why he gave it to the old vomiting lady.

I was thinking the same thing when Chrissy was talking about how she felt so "loved" when he passed the clue to her.  He doesn't know her, there was no "connection," the only reason he gave it to her was because he saw her as the weakest on her tribe and he wanted to keep her around so her tribe would be weaker.  

 

34 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea this. Initially I was like, 'wait what?' when Devon was blocked from voting, but that's entirely because I don't pay attention to some aspects of the episodes. I don't think the show was trying to mislead viewers in this case. They plainly showed Jessica reading the exact rules. 

We all thought that Devon got an advantage, but that was partly because we all thought Devin had been on the same tribe as the one who got the advantage.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Why does it matter? We found out that it was not an advantage when Devon found out, why would we need to know that beforehand? Even if this could be classified as "misdirection," how is it any different than the red herrings they throw into every episode so that the audience won't immediately know who is going home?

It matters because I didn't get what the hell happened. I assumed that, like Ryan's advantage, Jessica's advantage would be passed along to someone on the losing tribe who could use it to their own advantage. When it turned out Ryan had been disadvantaged, I was left wondering who the hell Jessica gave the advantage to and who used it on Ryan, and why, if they were all counting on him to be the swing vote. 

Now, if the rest of y'all got it and knew what was going on the second Devon found the paper at camp, bully for you. Maybe I missed something. But I thought it was confusing and the whole episode ended with me going "huh?"

That's why it mattered. 

[LanceM]

6 hours ago, survivinmt said:

 

I am pretty sure that Ryan's reason for choosing Chrissy was "woman who is weak and barfing at challenges". Not sure where she is seeing halos and unicorns.

According to Josh Wigler who was present for the first three days of the game none of the Healers or Hustlers saw Chrissy puke after the challenge. Apparently this happened after those other two tribes left.