S16.E07: The Ultimate Faceoff

[millennium]

Is it wrong to say I just don't get the whole "proud to be plus" phenomenon?  

[Wings]

4 minutes ago, millennium said:

Is it wrong to say I just don't get the whole "proud to be plus" phenomenon?  

Nope.

[peachmangosteen]

What don't you get about it?

Edited September 30, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

Brandon and Kentaro seem really nice, but I thought that their look reminded me of laundry day and I have to piece together an outfit from whatever clean clothes I have left.  It really looked rather junky and average to me and, not fashion forward. 

I completely agree with this. I loved their looks though lol.

[leighdear]

Liris is not a 14.  Trust those of us who put on clothing EVERY.SINGLE.DAY that has that number on the tags.  We can tell by her size in relation to other people.  I truly believe that normal, ordinary, mass-produced clothing in size 14 will not fit her. 

Here's an article that explains why the TV camera does not "add 10 pounds".  It may or not be true, but I think it's interesting.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/does-this-camera-make-me-look-fat-the-extra-10-pounds-myth/

Edited September 30, 2017 by leighdear

[jackjill89]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Is it wrong to say I just don't get the whole "proud to be plus" phenomenon?  

Putting aside that we all know being overweight brings a host of health issues...

Why shouldn't people love themselves for who they are? Why should anyone be ashamed of how they look? Beauty is so subjective. There is this ideal that has been perpetuated that everyone needs to look a certain way. Why? We're all unique. Why can't everyone simply embrace who they are? And why can't we all be fine with people feeling proud of who they are?

[sofaslug]

Was it just me or was Claire wearing two different sandals on the runway?  Is this a new thing or is she channeling the 80's?

[hoodooznoodooz]

8 hours ago, Kristimar said:

DWARMED, I agree Lyris that is more likely an 18.  I find it interesting the show is now embracing models of size, especially since Heidi made a comment years ago (don't remember which season) about one of the models looking like a fat Minnie Mouse. Also, you are so right in saying the difference in size is significant.   Like you, I have also lost weight (22 to an 18 (47 pounds.)   

I think the men in this competition have more talent and vision. Regardless of whether you like one's design aesthetic over another, I think Brandon, Kentaro and Michael each have what it takes.

I would love to see Amy throw caution to the wind and design the hell out of a garment before her behind is tossed from the show.

Also, why did the producers choose Cha-Cha and Aaron???   I want to see the interview process and the clothing they showed at that time. I find it difficult to believe their collections were better than other designers auditioning for the show.

Congratulations, Dwarmed and Kristimar, for the weightloss. Unless it is size-ist to write that. ; ) I need to lose about 30. 

I seem to recall Mondo and the other two judges liking Cha-Cha's stuff because it was soooo different. I think I still have Road to the Runway on the DVR, so I will check. 

[nb360]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

Is it wrong to say I just don't get the whole "proud to be plus" phenomenon?  

Yes.

[ScrapNini]

21 hours ago, wings707 said:

Nostalgia.  

Please note: These pieces are timeless!!   Anyone could still rock most of these looks today.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, sofaslug said:

Was it just me or was Claire wearing two different sandals on the runway?  Is this a new thing or is she channeling the 80's?

I noticed that too and thought it was display for attention. I would have expected Shawn the Lawn to been the one to have done it but not Claire the Hair.

I haven't seen anyone wearing different shoes in ages. I'm more used to seeing ppl with unmatched socks lol (whether intentional or not). 

[Tabbygirl521]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

Is it wrong to say I just don't get the whole "proud to be plus" phenomenon?  

I don't think so. It's not like you're saying people should not feel that way; you're just saying you don't understand. 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

Yes.

Then I guess I just don't get it.

IMHO, celebrating people being overweight -- encouraging them to be proud of it -- sends a wrong and potentially dangerous message healthwise, especially to younger people.   Being overweight can hurt them in terms of their career and future earnings too.  

I also watch "My 600-lb. Life."  Where do you draw the line between "curves" and a serious health problem?

[Angeleyes]

11 minutes ago, millennium said:

Then I guess I just don't get it.

IMHO, celebrating people being overweight -- encouraging them to be proud of it -- sends a wrong and potentially dangerous message healthwise, especially to younger people.   Being overweight can hurt them in terms of their career and future earnings too.  

I also watch "My 600-lb. Life."  Where do you draw the line between "curves" and a serious health problem?

So you don't think everyone needs clothes and deserves to look good in the items they've spent their hard earned money to pay for? (Not being snarky. I just have never understood why people think selling clothes to people who need it is deemed as glorifying not being health conscious.)

[auntlada]

Moved my thoughts to Accessory Wall.

Edited October 1, 2017 by auntlada

[jackjill89]

15 minutes ago, millennium said:

Then I guess I just don't get it.

IMHO, celebrating people being overweight -- encouraging them to be proud of it -- sends a wrong and potentially dangerous message healthwise, especially to younger people.   Being overweight can hurt them in terms of their career and future earnings too.  

I also watch "My 600-lb. Life."  Where do you draw the line between "curves" and a serious health problem?

I don't think people are celebrating being overweight, they are celebrating self-acceptance. If losing weight was simple, no one would have a weight problem. Honestly, I think it is healthier to love yourself than it is to be overweight and miserable. 

I think the health argument for most people is a bunch of bs. They don't care about someone's health, they think being overweight is ugly. Where's the line between curves and a serious health problem -- that's between a person and his/her doctor. 

In some ways overeating is no different than smoking, drinking and doing drugs. It is a different kind of addiction and it is as much and emotional issue as it is a simple health one. Like I said, if it was easy, no one would be overweight. 

I've struggled with my weight since I was 7. It's been decades. I'm finally on a path to becoming healthy. I'm doing this for me, because I feel like I'm at a place where I can do this. I'm not going to judge anyone else in this position. Years of self-loathing takes it toll. I think it is wonderful when someone can embrace themselves for who they are. Who are we to say they shouldn't? It's not our business. 

[awaken]

There are also plenty of people who are larger human beings with bodies that don't fit into the standard mold, who aren't fat, overweight, or unhealthy. I see this more as acknowledging that humans come in all shapes and sizes, rather than a glorification of being overweight. I, for one, love it. 

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

Then I guess I just don't get it.

IMHO, celebrating people being overweight -- encouraging them to be proud of it -- sends a wrong and potentially dangerous message healthwise, especially to younger people.   Being overweight can hurt them in terms of their career and future earnings too.  

I also watch "My 600-lb. Life."  Where do you draw the line between "curves" and a serious health problem?

 But celebrating possibly anorexic models is?  I would argue that Liris has looked healthier than many models on the runway.  

[lizzyp]

Speaking of Liris being a size 14 or whatever- can I go slightly off topic and bring up H & M?  They are truly the most size-ist store I've ever shopped.  I once sent their customer service department an email asking why they stock so few items in anything over a 10.  This was after visiting 2 stores in one day.  I was looking for a blazer in a 14 and couldn't find the one I liked in an size above 6.  I noticed that about 70% of the items on their clearance racks are XS and S, so I pointed out that if the average woman in America wears a 14, why wouldn't they supply to meet that demand.  Their response was that they stock all sizes and then restock what sells.  Huh?  If they stocked larger sizes and the larger sizes sell, wouldn't that mean they would restock the larger sizes?  But I gave them the benefit of the doubt and went back to the store.  I found a sales clerk and asked her about L or 14 items.  She said they rarely get them and when they do they sell immediately.  Then I went through the entire store and counted EVERY blazer in a 14.  I found 4, all the same ugly style.  Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining, H & M.  They started their Plus size line not long afterwards, and I looked.  I normally wear a 14-16 in pants and had to size up to a 22 for a pair of very basic khaki pants priced at $39.99.  I left there and walked down the mall to The Gap, where I found a perfect pair of khakis in a 16 on the clearance rack for $9.00

To pull it back to the topic just a little, sizing is inconsistent and cyclically runs from 'vanity sizing' to 'body shaming.'  And the retailers can't win, because they get criticized for one or the other. 

I think accepting and loving yourself is great, but they sure do make it hard sometimes.  I have always appreciated that Tim Gunn recognizes that, from a purely business standpoint, this is a highly underserved market.

And I don't care what size Liris is, she really knows how to walk that runway.   

[millennium]

3 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

So you don't think everyone needs clothes and deserves to look good in the items they've spent their hard earned money to pay for? (Not being snarky. I just have never understood why people think selling clothes to people who need it is deemed as glorifying not being health conscious.)

Of course everyone should be able to present in a way that makes them feel the best about themselves.

But in the last few years it seems (and I think largely due to marketing departments that sense a new and expanding market niche), there has been a push to repackage being overweight as trendy and perhaps even desirable (marketing again), flying in the face of decades of medical study and public education warning that people who are overweight face a higher risk of heart disease and stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes.

I think this trend is relaxing the public's concern about becoming overweight.   Today I see more fat young people than ever before, girls and boys with layers of flab spilling over the waistbands of their yoga pants and basketball shorts.  I'm not saying there should be a stigma against being overweight, but at the same time I don't think it should be unconditionally embraced either.   What incentive is there to watch what you eat or make an effort to exercise if marketers are telling you don't worry, you look great no matter what size you are and anyone who dares say otherwise is guilty of "body-shaming?"

3 hours ago, jackjill89 said:

 

In some ways overeating is no different than smoking, drinking and doing drugs. It is a different kind of addiction and it is as much and emotional issue as it is a simple health one. Like I said, if it was easy, no one would be overweight. 

 

Smoking, drinking and doing drugs have this in common -- they all start with marketing.  Smoking and drinking have long been promoted by big corporations, advertising and media, sold as a way to have fun, relax, or be cool; drugs are more amateur hour, but they are still pushed and sold the same way.   

Maybe I'm out of my mind (and I won't be hurt if you tell me I am), but this is where my head goes when I see the judges raving over the plus size fashions and how fierce Liris is in the way she shows off her body.   There's nothing wrong with making people feel comfortable in their skin, but at what point does it become promotion and endorsement of being overweight?   Isn't there a danger that the "sell" will start drowning out the cautionary voice inside that says, You know this isn't good for you?

Edited October 1, 2017 by millennium

[sasha206]

25 minutes ago, millennium said:

Of course everyone should be able to present in a way that makes them feel the best about themselves.

But in the last few years it seems (and I think largely due to marketing departments that sense a new and expanding market niche), there has been a push to repackage being overweight as trendy and perhaps even desirable (marketing again), flying in the face of decades of medical study and public education warning that people who are overweight face a higher risk of heart disease and stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes.

I think this trend is relaxing the public's concern about becoming overweight.   Today I see more fat young people than ever before, girls and boys with layers of flab spilling over the waistbands of their yoga pants and basketball shorts.  I'm not saying there should be a stigma against being overweight, but at the same time I don't think it should be unconditionally embraced either.   What incentive is there to watch what you eat or make an effort to exercise if marketers are telling you don't worry, you look great no matter what size you are and anyone who dares say otherwise is guilty of "body-shaming?"

Smoking, drinking and doing drugs have this in common -- they all start with marketing.  Smoking and drinking have long been promoted by big corporations, advertising and media, sold as a way to have fun, relax, or be cool; drugs are more amateur hour, but they are still pushed and sold the same way.   

Maybe I'm out of my mind (and I won't be hurt if you tell me I am), but this is where my head goes when I see the judges raving over the plus size fashions and how fierce Liris is in the way she shows off her body.   There's nothing wrong with making people feel comfortable in their skin, but at what point does it become promotion and endorsement of being overweight?   Isn't there a danger that the "sell" will start drowning out the cautionary voice inside that says, You know this isn't good for you?

And then there's the other side of modeling...the side of modeling in which being underweight is celebrated and women go to great lengths to be skinny by doing very dangerous things.  

http://nypost.com/2017/02/08/models-tell-all-before-new-york-fashion-week/

I'm sure the judges have raved about the fierceness of one of those super skinny models of Project Runway, no?

Edited October 1, 2017 by sasha206

[guilfoyleatpp]

25 minutes ago, millennium said:

Of course everyone should be able to present in a way that makes them feel the best about themselves.

But in the last few years it seems (and I think largely due to marketing departments that sense a new and expanding market niche), there has been a push to repackage being overweight as trendy and perhaps even desirable (marketing again), flying in the face of decades of medical study and public education warning that people who are overweight face a higher risk of heart disease and stroke, high blood pressure and diabetes.

I think this trend is relaxing the public's concern about becoming overweight.   Today I see more fat young people than ever before, girls and boys with layers of flab spilling over the waistbands of their yoga pants and basketball shorts.  I'm not saying there should be a stigma against being overweight, but at the same time I don't think it should be unconditionally embraced either.   What incentive is there to watch what you eat or make an effort to exercise if marketers are telling you don't worry, you look great no matter what size you are and anyone who dares say otherwise is guilty of "body-shaming?"

Smoking, drinking and doing drugs have this in common -- they all start with marketing.  Smoking and drinking have long been promoted by big corporations, advertising and media, sold as a way to have fun, relax, or be cool; drugs are more amateur hour, but they are still pushed and sold the same way.   

Maybe I'm out of my mind (and I won't be hurt if you tell me I am), but this is where my head goes when I see the judges raving over the plus size fashions and how fierce Liris is in the way she shows off her body.   There's nothing wrong with making people feel comfortable in their skin, but at what point does it become promotion and endorsement of being overweight?   Isn't there a danger that the "sell" will start drowning out the cautionary voice inside that says, You know this isn't good for you?

Most of your post was scientifically incorrect. A person's health is between that person and their doctor. Anyone's subjective view of who does and doesn't look healthy is based on assumption and personal bias.

Let's talk about driving. It is inherently bad for people and the earth. And yet most people in the US do it every day. It is the single most dangerous thing that we do every day. Where's the outrage and finger wagging about that? Where are the headless torsos emerging from cars with headlines like "New Study Shows the Number One Killer of Young Adults?"

[millennium]

12 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

And then there's the other side of modeling...the side of modeling in which being underweight is celebrated and women go to great lengths to be skinny by doing very dangerous things.  

http://nypost.com/2017/02/08/models-tell-all-before-new-york-fashion-week/

I'm sure the judges have raved about the fierceness of one of those super skinny models of Project Runway, no?

FWIW, I'm not on board with the anorexic models.   At times it looks freakish, other times it seems impractical to use them -- good example this week, Margarita's winning design.  Looked great on the model, but how could anyone with even an average bust, let alone a larger bust, wear that?   

[iknow]

36 minutes ago, millennium said:

Maybe I'm out of my mind (and I won't be hurt if you tell me I am), but this is where my head goes when I see the judges raving over the plus size fashions and how fierce Liris is in the way she shows off her body.   There's nothing wrong with making people feel comfortable in their skin, but at what point does it become promotion and endorsement of being overweight?   Isn't there a danger that the "sell" will start drowning out the cautionary voice inside that says, You know this isn't good for you?

I don't think Liris is obese or otherwise unhealthy looking. She has a rather small waist and an hourglass figure. She isn't chunky in the middle which is unhealthier, as with apple shapes the organs are surrounded by fat. She has healthy, glowing skin and she looks quite toned, not flabby. I think she sets a good example for bigger women who want to look and feel fabulous. 

 

Like someone said, the body positivity movement is not about telling people to gain weight or somehow idolize obesity. It's about people of all shapes and sizes being accepted and feeling good about themselves. Eating disorders are often caused by depression, low self-esteem and peer pressure and the worse you feel about yourself, the harder it is to be healthy, whether you're starving yourself or stuffing your face. 

[millennium]

16 minutes ago, iknow said:

 

 

Like someone said, the body positivity movement is not about telling people to gain weight or somehow idolize obesity. It's about people of all shapes and sizes being accepted and feeling good about themselves. Eating disorders are often caused by depression, low self-esteem and peer pressure and the worse you feel about yourself, the harder it is to be healthy, whether you're starving yourself or stuffing your face. 

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I agree with you that overeating and undereating are serious problems deserving of proper attention, both medical and psychological.   The concern I tried to express (and perhaps not very well) is that there is an industry aggressively trying to cash in on these problems, and in flattering the symptoms it may lead the victims and the public to disregard the underlying cause.

[tessat]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

Then I guess I just don't get it.

IMHO, celebrating people being overweight -- encouraging them to be proud of it -- sends a wrong and potentially dangerous message healthwise, especially to younger people.   Being overweight can hurt them in terms of their career and future earnings too.  

I also watch "My 600-lb. Life."  Where do you draw the line between "curves" and a serious health problem?

Fashion is a business. When manufacturers see size 22 people wearing body con dresses or jeggings and being proud of it by posting selfies all over the place - the manufacturer sees the $$$$ signs and is going to manufacture and market items to grab that cash. I don't see anyone celebrating people being overweight - but I do think those who are overweight deserve a chance at fashionable clothing like the rest of the society.

[Mindthinkr]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Today I see more fat young people than ever before, girls and boys with layers of flab spilling over the waistbands of their yoga pants and basketball shorts.

I have noticed this too and wonder if there isn't a direct correlation between their being overweight and using electronic devices. As children, if it wasn't raining, we were told to go outside and play. These days if the kids arent bugging the parents and quiet, then they aren't encouraged to "get out of their parents hair" and go outside to play. Electronics have become the babysitters of this decade compared to the tv years ago. Best case scenario would be a family that takes up a physical activity they can all enjoy together (hiking, bicycle riding, swimming to name a few). 

I also have to look at the 'fat' on a child with a grain of salt. I've seen kids with a wee bit of flab and then suddenly they had a growth spurt and it disappeared.

[lampwick]

I always thought the models were stick thin because the designers want the focus on the clothes, not the model.  The best way to achieve that is to have a walking plank with no breasts wearing the clothes.   Even if you are thin, the clothes likely wouldn’t look the same on you as the models anyway because of the models’ height.   Consistent with this theory, you never see charismatic expressions from the models on the runway- it’s like zombieland.  Again, it’s to keep the focus on the clothes.  (Of course there are exceptions)

[Shannon L.]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I have noticed this too and wonder if there isn't a direct correlation between their being overweight and using electronic devices.

The food industry is a monster, too.  There's a documentary called "Fed Up".  It's well done, fascinating and infuriating.  I highly recommend it.  Two years ago, I saw it on Netflix, but I'm not sure if it's still there.

I think the biggest reason for loving yourself not matter what your size is because fat has always equaled ugly in most societies and that's not necessarily the case.  Liris, who many people would consider "fat", is gorgeous.  I agree that the fashion industry needs to start making beautiful clothes for people of all sizes.  It's hard enough struggling mentally with how you look in the mirror without having to face a bunch of ugly clothing choices on top of it.  Having said that, the healthy/unhealthy issue is definitely different from one person to the next.  My mom was about 220lbs at her heaviest and her doctor was continually astonished at how perfect her blood work was (and she had no complaints about joint pain or shortness of breath).  But, food has changed a lot since then and it's not helping our health at any size (unless you are a health food freak)--see the aforementioned documentary and you'll see what I mean.

In regards to Liris' size vs our own sizes:  I used to weigh 207 and could fit into an Old Navy size 16, but they were getting uncomfortably tight--an 18 would have been my next purchase, but I decided to lose weight instead.  I lost 70lbs and it was a long, grueling process--one that I continue to be proud of, but not one that I ever want to do again. 

[Archery]

This is a more general question:  each week, when they announce the prize, they refer to "the winning model." If the models and designers switch up each week, how would that be determined? Does anybody know?

[Shannon L.]

4 minutes ago, Archery said:

This is a more general question:  each week, when they announce the prize, they refer to "the winning model." If the models and designers switch up each week, how would that be determined? Does anybody know?

We were wondering about that, too.  Maybe the model wearing the winner's winning design in the finale?

[PamelaMaeSnap]

SO many things to respond to ... apologies in advance (and especially to our incredibly patient mod) ... 

A) I have also been wondering many things about the models and model selection ... if they're switching up models every week, which obviously they are, then yes, a) who is the winning model and b) HOW are they doing it? I think I asked this a while back in this thread and if anything the show has been MUCH more secretive about the process than they used to be in the past when last week's winner would get to choose his/her model for the next challenge and then they went to the velvet button bag ... and one cheese model would be left standing alone on the red carpet dell. ALSO ... because I haven't noticed because I r dum ... does the model paired with the losing designer automatically get auf'ed then?

But now we just see the pairings ... I am going to conjecture it's because if the designers had their way, the fuller-sized models would ALWAYS be the last to go.

I thought about this when there was an episode a few weeks ago where the models got to choose their designers (wish they'd do that every season!) and one of the designers said something along the lines of (not a direct quote) "so THIS time THEY get to choose US," which I inferred to mean they have been doing some sort of picking models all along, just not publicly, so I guess when they open their envelope they just have to act surprised for the cameras? Wish someone had inside info on this!

(While I am very much NOT a fan of the new American Beauty Star (Project NotRunway) mainly because the majority of the competitors are just heinous, but also because it is just trying SO HARD to be PR and failing SO MISERABLY, I do respect that they are paired with a model for keeps.)

B) Re: last week's challenge (the pairs), I just have to say I was probably unintentionally judging some of the designs on the fabrics. For once, the designers didn't really get to choose their fabrics from Mood but rather all got the same batch, right? For me, that deep crimson (I think it was velvet? Whoever Margarita was partnered with used it for that sort of little girl tin soldier party dress?) was gorgeous and I'd LOVE something made in that color/material. Ditto the light blue large checked material that Brandon and Kentaro used. I am way too small to wear a duster like that but I would ABSOLUTELY buy the shorter jacket that I THINK Kentaro made, just because it's such a lovely color/print. (BTW, I did NOT see Margarita's design at MY local J.C. Penney's but then we are probably not their target audience ... my local mall is co-anchored by JCP, Sears, Lord & Taylor and Macy's Backstage, if you knew there was an outlet Macy's ... a lot of polyester in bright colors ...)

... B2) BUT, that said, I quite like our JCP if you know what to look for and just another reason to dislike those who sniffed their pierced noses at it. Yeah, a lot of the merch is crap. BUT there are a few store brands that you can find some really nice stuff for good prices (ANA for the slightly younger crowd, Worthington, I think it's called, for the slightly older, and I've been able to rummage through racks and get some nice blazers for the large of bust that don't leave the rest of my petite self swimming) ... Also, if you know where to look, and you have quirky tastes, you can get a great deal on Disney princess shoes that light up and twinkle (one of the benefits of being able to wear children-sized shoes). PLUS ... THEY HAVE AN IN-HOUSE SEPHORA!!!!

C) I did put my name on the wait list for the Swatch T-shirt. I'm sure I'll never get it but I can hold out hope! They have a few other Swatch merch but the only thing in stock is a tote bag and I have too many tote bags. I've killed a lot of totes in my time. Save the Totes!

And finally (you know I'd get there, right) D) ... If I created a separate thread in the PR folder for Clothes We'd Love To See Designed For Us Because We Have Long-Term Family-Based Body Issues (and what got us there), would anyone be interested? I'm finding that subconvo in here fascinating as yet another member of the PR fanatics that have/had major body issues, weight loss, weight gain, yoyo-ing, odd dimensions and all the history and genetics that they come from (not to mention what my offspring has gone through). Just say the word ;)

Edited October 1, 2017 by PamelaMaeSnap

[sasha206]

10 hours ago, millennium said:

I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but I agree with you that overeating and undereating are serious problems deserving of proper attention, both medical and psychological.   The concern I tried to express (and perhaps not very well) is that there is an industry aggressively trying to cash in on these problems, and in flattering the symptoms it may lead the victims and the public to disregard the underlying cause.

I do understand what you are saying though. I mean, you can't say Tess Holliday isn't healthy at her current weight and not be accused of fat shaming.   I was only pointing out that the world celebrates the super skinny models that go to really unhealthy lengths to stay that skinny.  I mean, Gigi Hadid looked like a healthy, thin model when she first started out.  Now she looks like she's unhealthy (to me).   So in my mind if you are going to celebrate the bodies of women whose diets are carrots and cigarettes on the runway, celebrating the bodies of larger sized women like Liris or Ashley Graham is not a bad thing.  And fashion should clothe more than a size 0.

Edited October 1, 2017 by sasha206

[Merriwind]

One thing that really jumped out at me this episode were the shoes. As a whole, they looked clunky, cheap, shiny and sad. I don't usually notice the shoes, but these screamed at me.

Looking forward to the twin split-up next week. It has to be Shawn who goes...she wouldn't have sent one article of clothing down the runway without Claire there helping her. I will be beyond disappointed if they both get to stay somehow. Shawn has clearly outstayed her (very limited) talent and ability. I think Claire may have too, but I'd like to see her in action without her twin sister functioning as an anchor around her neck before making that determination for sure. I figured the PTB were keeping them around solely for the purpose of heightened drama like they've promised us with the sew-off. 

Brandon's constant state of calm is so impressive. In my opinion, he's going to get the "show us something different" warning from Zac or Nina any day now. One Trick Pony, One Way Monkey, he's there. 

[sasha206]

4 hours ago, lampwick said:

I always thought the models were stick thin because the designers want the focus on the clothes, not the model.  The best way to achieve that is to have a walking plank with no breasts wearing the clothes.   Even if you are thin, the clothes likely wouldn’t look the same on you as the models anyway because of the models’ height.   Consistent with this theory, you never see charismatic expressions from the models on the runway- it’s like zombieland.  Again, it’s to keep the focus on the clothes.  (Of course there are exceptions)

That's supposedly the reason why but I'll never understand that.  Why have models at all?  Roll out a fucking hanger on a hotel cart.  Cindy Crawford had a great, healthy body and made every runway outfit look incredible.  It's just hard for me to understand how protruding bones and unhealthy models allow you to focus on clothing.   I'm too busy focusing on how unhealthy the model looks!

Edited October 1, 2017 by sasha206

[carrps]

OMG, that Daily Post story was horrifying. Eating cotton balls to feel full??? Goes to show most models are not naturally as thin as they claim. It's worse when you have a mother with a great metabolism who could eat what she wanted and never exercised, but stayed thin. If your metabolism is slow, and you have to spend hours exercising and never ever allow yourself to feel satiated, but always hungry? Then, you say WTH and allow yourself to wear a double-digit size without feeling like you have to go out with a bag over your head.

And I agree that when models are so anorexic and bony looking it detracts from the clothes.

[lampwick]

I

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

That's supposedly the reason why but I'll never understand that.  Why have models at all?  Roll out a fucking hanger on a hotel cart.  Cindy Crawford had a great, healthy body and made every runway outfit look incredible.  It's just hard for me to understand how protruding bones and unhealthy models allow you to focus on clothing.   I'm too busy focusing on how unhealthy the model looks!

Focusing on the clothes, not the bodies makes sense, right?   The thing is... I’ve never heard a designer say this is the reason when defending the use of skinny models.  They always end up saying something about it being easier to create the designs for smaller, uniform, consistent sizes or some such jazz - which makes me think they just don’t want to deal with curves, period.  

[dleighg]

12 minutes ago, lampwick said:

which makes me think they just don’t want to deal with curves, period.  

It's certainly easier to send out a plunging neckline when there are no boobs to pop out.

[etexlady]

3 hours ago, Merriwind said:

 

Brandon's constant state of calm is so impressive. In my opinion, he's going to get the "show us something different" warning from Zac or Nina any day now. One Trick Pony, One Way Monkey, he's there. 

Amen and ditto.  I'm so tired of the judges fawning over Brandon's designs of loose, boxy, long, awning-type fabric with hanging stings/straps.  They don't seem to have any problems saying "see it before" to the others.

[sleepyjean]

On 9/28/2017 at 7:21 PM, TVFAN said:

Count me out of watching next week's episode!  Do the producers really think people want to watch one more minute of the twins?????????  I can't imagine anything I want to watch less than the two of them carrying on.

Based on the comments here, there's not a lot of love for the twins, but people will be glued to the tv, waiting for the two of them to get their comeuppance. Ratings aren't always about whether you like something. Hate watching is a real thing.

On 9/28/2017 at 9:23 PM, Mumbles said:

I could have done without the arch comments of the "J.C. Penney woman" that the twins were dropping. As they were using it, they meant someone who was basic and not fashion-forward. Jerks.

I guess I don't see this as offensive. I shop at JC Penny. I have never considered it fashion forward, and yes it is basic. But I don't see anything wrong with being basic. Stores like JC Penny follow (and water down) the trends for mass consumption. To me, that's the very definition of basic. I don't really expect to find "fresh" "new" "unexpected" or "trendsetting" garments there. Nor would I expect it to be aspirational for someone in fashion design.

On 9/28/2017 at 9:45 PM, RedheadZombie said:

It seemed to me that Amy immediately made herself submissive, and wanted approval for her every thought.  I surely didn't think that this was what Kenya was wishing for.  Amy needed a lot of reassurance, and was double-checking with Kenya a lot.  If Amy didn't like how the tank top was sewn, she should have done it herself.  I was actually surprised how Amy seemed so insecure.  She's quick to critique others' looks, so her hesitance took me by surprise.  I wonder if technique is her specialty, and designing is her weakness.

I like Amy. But even despite liking her, I had to wonder if all of that was a subtle way of positioning Kenya as the "leader" so if they failed, it was more likely that Kenya would be cut.

On 9/29/2017 at 5:10 PM, susannot said:

So would it be fair to assume that each size is separated by the next by 10 pounds?  AZChristian I've seen that chart but it is messed up.  I am a 10 and a 12 in different dimensions.  I have large muscular shoulders from sports , a flat-ish chest, narrow hips, and a poochy belly from love of food and wine.  What do I wear?  A long tunic always seems like the best option but I would like more style.

In my experience, the larger the size, the more pounds between sizes. A person who is a size two and gains 50 pounds has to go up more sizes than a person who is a size 18 and gains 50 pounds.

On 9/29/2017 at 5:15 PM, dwarmed said:

There's nothing wrong with whatever size Lyris actually is. She looks fab. I just think it's weird for the show to be about embracing size and have models underestimate their size like that. At the beginning Tim said the models went from size 2 to 22. I would think Lyris is near the top of that range, not 4 sizes smaller than the top of the range.

There were at least two models larger than Liris and much less proportional, and two about the same size, one bottom-heavy and one without much waist definition. (I'm referring to models 3, 5, 8, and 12 below, counting from the left.) You never see Tim, the judges, or any of the designers asking for those models' opinions or telling the designer to consult with those models, only Liris. In fact, are the others still even on the show? It's interesting that the plus size model they focus on is the one who is the most like the straight size models.

On 9/30/2017 at 4:59 AM, Jesse said:

I'm willing to bet that dressmaker's dummies still use "classic" sizes (like wedding dresses do?) and so an 18 would be a modern 14. Whether or not Liris is buying 14s (and at what store) is another question!

That's my guess as well. No vanity sizing when it comes to dress forms.

On 9/30/2017 at 7:48 AM, Kristimar said:

Also, why did the producers choose Cha-Cha and Aaron???   I want to see the interview process and the clothing they showed at that time. I find it difficult to believe their collections were better than other designers auditioning for the show.

They were chosen because the primary focus of this show is entertainment, not fashion. They always cast a few "colorful" types every season to entertain for a few episodes and then crash and burn.

On 9/30/2017 at 9:22 AM, leighdear said:

I liked Batani's dress, but we were shown proof that her sewing skills are nowhere near sufficient to be deemed professional, as Margarita seems to do most of the tailoring.  It's the reason I keep referring to her as Anya 2.0.  Her designs aren't bad, as you can see from her sketches on the official site.  What she showed was her original concept, she just needed a lot of help from her teammate.

Batani has benefited greatly from some of the other designers' massive failures. Most of the chaff is gone though. Once the twins are out, I expect Batani's poor execution to come to the forefront of the conversation.

[Wings]

There have been many one trick ponies who got to the finals and some who won.  It is true of famous designers, too  Many who follow fashion can spot a Channel, Herrera, Klein and many others at first glance.  It is what makes them unique and acquire a following for their style.  

Laura and her black cocktail dresses and Uli with her Miami Beach flowing dresses are the first who leaped to my mind immediately. 

I expect to see Brandon and Ketaro F2 and their collections will be easily recognizable as theirs.  

Edited October 1, 2017 by wings707

[treestar13]

The cheating with the twins may be that they help each other.  It was made clear they couldn't.

[PepperMonkey]

Late to the party, again this week.... I'm putting off watching the episodes more and more, although I personally think this is a much better season than last season, even without much originality (save some Brandon and/or Kentaro flashes, here and there) or true fashion. I have a lot to say and hope it's all on topic, so here goes:

Kenya and Amy... Thought their dynamic ended up being awkward, not awful. Amy even said she deferred to Kenya too much, which might have been too much pressure on her (Kenya) and made things weird for them both. I, unlike a lot of us, didn't think Kenya threw Amy under the bus on the runway. Kenya didn't want to say she thought Amy should go. I still love Kenya as a person, but not so much for her designs. I get a Chloe Dao vibe from her: she's a great technician, but I don't really think of much she's sent down the runway as *fashion.* Aside from that, her eye rolls are everything.

Liris... who is not a designer, but a model. Who cares if she's a 14 or an 18? I don't mean that as a jab at the discussion we've been having, but seriously, does it really matter? I myself, a formerly in shape, yet shapely, person, until I hit 55 and had some cancer stress, could wear anything from a 2 to an 8 at that time. I'm pretty standardly at 16-18 now, but I do not have the nice shape of a Liris. I'm going to add here about the discussion of celebrating plus sizes: I can only speak for myself. I know how much better I felt when I carried less weight and now I have knee issues and high blood pressure, both directly attributable to my weight gain. I don't hate myself, but I don't love the way I look either. Maybe it's harder on me because the fat, no waist thing is fairly new for me, I don't know. Finally re: the models, and as we've all said, ad nauseum: stop treating them as clients, show. They're M O D E L S. It's their job to wear what the designer designs and stfu. And that opinion has nothing to do with size.

Brandon and Kentaro.... I do love their friendship, but I don't consider them the dream team and I think it's kind of unfair for Tim to say that in front of the other designers. I think both of them will be in the finale, but I'm not totally sold on Brandon's masculine streetwear. Although I would have bought the long jacket/coat/robe (Mr Monkey says it looks like a housecoat, but I love a long jacket/ duster). Kind of tired of Brandon's long strings though, and the pastels. It was nice to see the black mixed in with their looks this week.

I'm mostly over Margarita and I liked her at first. I still love her yellow fish dress from fashion week, IF that was her design. But, hated the way she treated her model on the runway last week and her talking heads have become increasingly snarky-tending-to-mean. Batani, for me, appears to be a nice enough lady, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE African wax prints - I own a collection of them, most of which I haven't done anything with yet, I just own them because they're beautiful - but she's kind of a non-entity design-wise. IMHO.

The twins.... gods help us. I do not abhor them, but I am so ready for one or both of them to go as I think they are a horrible distraction to the other designers. Also, still stick to my original opinion that they have never been two separate designers, and have always pretty much designed as a team. And just because they can make candy cupcake costumes for Katy Perry doesn't mean they have taste or can make anything anyone else would wear. I'm interested to see the outcome of the "sew off." I really think Shaun may lose it and just give up and go, but who knows? I don't think either one of them will end up in the finale, so just put them out of everyone's misery, please.

So... next week is cheat gate and I'm dying to see what that's all about since we pretty much have assumed it's twin-centric.

Edited October 1, 2017 by PepperMonkey

[auntlada]

51 minutes ago, wings707 said:

There have been many one trick ponies who got to the finals and some who won.  It is true of famous designers, too  Many who follow fashion can spot a Channel, Herrera, Klein and many others at first glance.  It is what makes them unique and acquire a following for their style.  

Laura and her black cocktail dresses and Uli with her Miami Beach flowing dresses are the first who leaped to my mind immediately. 

I expect to see Brandon and Ketaro F2 and their collections will be easily recognizable as theirs.  

I think when the judges say, "We've seen you do that before," the unspoken end of the sentence is, "and we didn't like it." I think they don't say it to some designers, like Brandon, because they like that particular pony.

[dgpolo]

But on the other side of the 'show us something different' coin is the 'we don't know who you are as a designer'. At least we know who Brandon,  Kentaro and even Batani and Ayana (sp?) are. It's up to the judges if they 'like' who they are.

[leighdear]

Diane Von Furstenburg built an entire fashion empire on a wrap dress.  The initial piece, if it fills a void and speaks to an entire generation of consumers can be all it takes to put a designer on top. 

[SingleMaltBlonde]

7 hours ago, sasha206 said:

 of women whose diets are carrots and cigarettes 

You forgot about cocaine

[lgprimes]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:42 AM, Aerobicidal said:

Amy looks like Tilda Swinton crossed with Gumby. (Sorry, twins, since I’m sure you don’t get either of those references. I’m just not millennial AF!)

For another not well known reference, I was thinking that Amy looks very much like a (Belgian?) comic book character named Tintin! Look him up and tell me it’s not true!

[Wings]

Yes there is a resemblence here.  :^)  I love her hair though.  

[treestar13]

On 9/29/2017 at 11:13 AM, cpcathy said:

Amy's was godawful, I don't have anything witty to compare it to, but it was from the 80's. One of the worst outfits I have ever seen on this show.

 

I think even farther in the past.  Think Shirley Partridge on the Partridge Family!