Season 4 Talk

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think the overall dynamic is that if she tells him anything he blows up and refuses to consider her point of view at all, and she's tired of it and just wants a break from it. And on his side... I honestly don't understand what his problem is, to be honest. Throughout the show's run, I've always seen him as being a self-centered baby while Bow humors him. So she's not humoring him anymore and he's tantrumming non-stop.

God, yes, 100% this.

Nice to see Junior, by far the character with the most and best heart, treated like shit again, some more.

[peeayebee]

18 hours ago, Dee said:

This show really has entered This Is Us territory.

No. This Is Us is much more enjoyable.

 

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I agree that she COULD have told him, and if they were actually working on their relationship, she would have. But it looked to me like they weren't speaking, and couldn't stand each other enough to be in the same room and be civil, they couldn't even get Junior's graduation present without tempers flaring, so I understand why she didn't call him to tell him about going back to work. It doesn't seem like she was actively hiding it, because when she refused his offer to stay overnight she gave her reason as work-related, when she could have been more evasive.

I basically agree. Consciously or not, she was going about her life as if he weren't a part of it. She may have thought, I don't need to bother telling him, maybe out of spite or anger, or it may not have occurred to him. Then when she does mention it to him, self-defensively and aggressively she gets sarcastic with him. Anyway, she should have told him because that does affect him. They are still part of each other lives.

I liked Jack's stinky-leg dance and that he knows his dancing makes people happy. Heck, it made ME happy. Maybe during the entirety of this arc we need a graphic of him dancing across the bottom of the screen.

[vibeology]

Married, separated or divorced, if you’re truly committed to parenting together you tell your co-parent about major life changes. Always. Because your kids aren’t your messengers. Because it’s important to know info like workplace in case of an emergency. Because it’s respectful and you can’t co-parent without respect. Bow was out of line in keeping that info from Dre.

I think Dre is a huge problem in this marriage and he does react like a huge baby and he has to work on that if there’s any hope in saving the marriage. But I also don’t know who wouldn’t have a big reaction in that situation.

[Joimiaroxeu]

A vacuous, freezing cold environment incapable of sustaining human life. Sounds to me like what being married to manbaby Dre must be like.

Interesting choice of music during JR's graduation speech. It's basically a song about stalking and using "love" as an excuse to disrespect someone's boundaries.

I thought that dance was called the stanky leg?

Edited May 9, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I would look out for my best interest too. I

Then tell him.  The decision to hide that vital information can and will affect your financial settlement.

As for nesting, I believe it is MUCH better to do week here/week there rather than days ... Otherwise, EVERY DAY the kids have to fill in information for the parent who wasn't there the day before.

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

Normally that would be a great, sentimental gift, but coming from a father who can barely hide his contempt for you, it just came off as half-assed. Ugh, just give Junior a spin-off so I can watch that instead.

At this point, Junior just cant win with Dre, its so depressing to watch. Every time he does something that Dre remotely approves of (like getting a girlfriend) he will act all weird about it, and then find something else to treat him like crap about. And even when he was the dang valedictorian, all he gets is a hand me down watch that Dre didnt even want to give him, with a generic note on it, while Zoe got a car AND a trip to Europe. Not even going to Dres beloved college can make Dre look at with with anything but disdain, all because Junior is a well meaning dork who doesn't fit his super narrow definition of what a black man should be. 

On top of all the other depressing stuff in this arc, that Dre and Junior stuff makes it even more sad to watch. How about we start that drinking game? Lord knows, I could do with some vodka to get through next week.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:50 PM, rwlevin said:

In Dre’s defense, Bow really should have told him she went back to work. That could really impact her schedule of spending time with the kids and that is something Dre deserved to know.

Dre gets bashed so much on the Boards, but Bow was totes out-of-line on that one.  Dre was clearly trying his best to move towards a reconciliation and it took her all of 30 seconds to snap into combat mode.

22 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My opinion of Luka is noted in the grown-ish thread. He does nothing for me.

Agreed. Far "too cool for school" to coin an old-school phrase.

[morakot]

Quote

Bow was totes out-of-line on that one

Not necessarily -- she's sitting in the apartment with nothing to do for 3-4 days a week. She has a clear schedule for the nesting and there is no reason why she couldn't request part time work at the hospital during the days with an empty schedule. Yes, she makes money, but she's also working to make a difference in patients' lives and they don't argue with her all the time. She's not able to make a difference in her family life.

[SanDiegoInExile]

9 hours ago, nilyank said:

.....Junior got a watch from his father that Dre initially questioned Bow about giving it to him and not even a party with the family that ended with his parents fighting. 

Even if they had less money around this time, they should have done something more for him. ...

I got the impression it was a Rolex-caliber type watch. I dont pay much attention to that type of thing (havent worn a watch in 30 years), but I know that some watches cost $10,000+.  Given the way the parents were searching the yard, it seems that the watch is probably worth more than some cars.

[Winston Wolfe]

2 minutes ago, morakot said:

Not necessarily -- she's sitting in the apartment with nothing to do for 3-4 days a week. She has a clear schedule for the nesting and there is no reason why she couldn't request part time work at the hospital during the days with an empty schedule. Yes, she makes money, but she's also working to make a difference in patients' lives and they don't argue with her all the time. She's not able to make a difference in her family life.

I don't disagree.  But what I was actually referring to was Bow's reaction to Dre's "when were you going to tell me?"  It was like she couldn't wait to start a fresh argument.

[Quickbeam]

I’ve taken this off my DVR list, I can’t watch this show implode. And the kitchen is horrible. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I’ve taken this off my DVR list, I can’t watch this show implode. And the kitchen is horrible. 

This reminds me of Desperate Housewives.  The first season had glamour, mystery and a young shirtless gardener.  Season 2 got so depressing with new neighbor Alfre Woodard locking her mentally ill son and suspected murderer in the basement.  The frothy fun show skidded downhill so fast that it never recovered and creator Marc Cherry had a nervous breakdown. I say, PICK A LANE AND STAY IN IT.  

[snoopypez]

This was one of the very few times I was on Dre's side--not about all of it, obviously, but about Bow not telling him. Yes, he probably would've reacted badly had she told him earlier, but then at least she'd have the right to point out that he would take it badly. This way was more...hurtful, really. Like, I'm sure he had more selfish and petty reasons for not liking it, but on the surface, it really did make him think "wow, she's already acting like we're divorced", right after a pretty good day. And as others have pointed out, if they were really trying to work things out, she should've told him.

I don't think he'd have the right to try to STOP her from going back to work, but I understood why it was hurtful for him, which is more than the show usually does for me concerning him.

Now, his treatment of Junior, on the other hand... Has no one connected to the show ever NOTICED that it's not funny, just abusive? Not even thinking about the fact that they gave him no party and a gift that Zoe(y?) mocked, there's the fact that Dre then said that if he ever has to choose between JR and the watch, well, Junior's lived a life. Damn, can he not be nice to his oldest son for A DAY?

[Dee]

I'm sick of St. Junior.

It will be great once he finally leaves for college and learns that his ultra creepy behavior is not cute.

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Dre gets bashed so much on the Boards, but Bow was totes out-of-line on that one.

I don't believe for one second that Bow wouldn't tell Dre that she was going back to work, not even with the writers' attempting to justify that by having her say she didn't want to deal with Dre's reaction (her rote response to everything in the last three episodes).  She was written that way so that Dre could blow up at her and they could officially separate.  Bow has always loved communication and sharing, so it just rings completely false to me that she's suddenly not interested in communicating; she's been doing this dance with him for over twenty years and suddenly decided to stop?  Nope, not buying it.  The writers have changed how they've always written Bow in order to suit the story they want to tell, and it's just not believable to me.  And it's really aggravating.

[NUguy514]

57 minutes ago, Dee said:

I'm sick of St. Junior.

It will be great once he finally leaves for college and learns that his ultra creepy behavior is not cute.

I'm sick of seeing Dre abuse his son every episode.

It will be great when Junior finally leaves for college, gets some distance, and realizes what an abusive asshole his father is.

[Dee]

8 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Dre gets bashed so much on the Boards, but Bow was totes out-of-line on that one. 

Exactly!

[After7Only]

This was the best of the “marriage problems” episodes so far.  Unfortunately it’s ma pretty low bar.   Diane’s “is this real” scene actually brought a tear to my eye.   

On 5/8/2018 at 11:06 PM, possibilities said:

 

I don't understand why Bow was supposed to tell Dre she went back to work, or why he'd care if she did. She takes responsibility for her days with the kids, he didn't even notice any change when she took the job, so how exactly does it affect his life. 

He took her going back to work without telling him as her making preparations for divorce.   It’s a fair assumption.   Otherwise she would have brought it up as something she was thinking about doing before the “nesting” separation.  

[possibilities]

If my spouse of 20 years was doing things to prepare for a divorce, I would be concerned about how unhappy she was, not angry that she was unhappy enough to want to leave. So as far as I'm concerned, Dre is proving the case for divorce by his reaction.

[qtpye]

21 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

He was valedictorian after less than 1 year in the school, correct? The salutatorian, if there was one, must have been mightily annoyed.

 

20 hours ago, nilyank said:

Zoey got a car and a a trip to Europe when she graduated. 

Dre bought Ruby a new car.

They just threw a massive birthday party with a bouncy house for Devonte who at 1 year of age won't remember it.

They needlessly remodeled their pretty kitchen.

Junior got a watch from his father that Dre initially questioned Bow about giving it to him and not even a party with the family that ended with his parents fighting. 

Even if they had less money around this time, they should have done something more for him. Then again, it would have been more embarrassing to Junior if they had that fight in front of their friends.

 

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

At this point, Junior just cant win with Dre, its so depressing to watch. Every time he does something that Dre remotely approves of (like getting a girlfriend) he will act all weird about it, and then find something else to treat him like crap about. And even when he was the dang valedictorian, all he gets is a hand me down watch that Dre didnt even want to give him, with a generic note on it, while Zoe got a car AND a trip to Europe. Not even going to Dres beloved college can make Dre look at with with anything but disdain, all because Junior is a well meaning dork who doesn't fit his super narrow definition of what a black man should be. 

On top of all the other depressing stuff in this arc, that Dre and Junior stuff makes it even more sad to watch. How about we start that drinking game? Lord knows, I could do with some vodka to get through next week.

 

9 hours ago, snoopypez said:

This was one of the very few times I was on Dre's side--not about all of it, obviously, but about Bow not telling him. Yes, he probably would've reacted badly had she told him earlier, but then at least she'd have the right to point out that he would take it badly. This way was more...hurtful, really. Like, I'm sure he had more selfish and petty reasons for not liking it, but on the surface, it really did make him think "wow, she's already acting like we're divorced", right after a pretty good day. And as others have pointed out, if they were really trying to work things out, she should've told him.

I don't think he'd have the right to try to STOP her from going back to work, but I understood why it was hurtful for him, which is more than the show usually does for me concerning him.

Now, his treatment of Junior, on the other hand... Has no one connected to the show ever NOTICED that it's not funny, just abusive? Not even thinking about the fact that they gave him no party and a gift that Zoe(y?) mocked, there's the fact that Dre then said that if he ever has to choose between JR and the watch, well, Junior's lived a life. Damn, can he not be nice to his oldest son for A DAY?

 

7 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I don't believe for one second that Bow wouldn't tell Dre that she was going back to work, not even with the writers' attempting to justify that by having her say she didn't want to deal with Dre's reaction (her rote response to everything in the last three episodes).  She was written that way so that Dre could blow up at her and they could officially separate.  Bow has always loved communication and sharing, so it just rings completely false to me that she's suddenly not interested in communicating; she's been doing this dance with him for over twenty years and suddenly decided to stop?  Nope, not buying it.  The writers have changed how they've always written Bow in order to suit the story they want to tell, and it's just not believable to me.  And it's really aggravating.

At this point, both Bow and Dre have become such assholes that I am beginning to think the only reason they did not throw a party for Jr is that they did not want all those "Public School" kids in their house.

[readster]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

If my spouse of 20 years was doing things to prepare for a divorce, I would be concerned about how unhappy she was, not angry that she was unhappy enough to want to leave. So as far as I'm concerned, Dre is proving the case for divorce by his reaction.

That's been the problem since this story line even started. Even Bow admitting she had concerns with Baby D, but didn't say anything because she knew Dre would react back to it. He didn't start worrying until the birthday part because everyone was going; "Why isn't he walking? Why is he not doing this?" Then add in that Dre was making some very oblivious mistakes, even for Dre. I mean, he was so concern and on point in keeping the gender reveal secret. Making things so set that Baby D would be fine. Then he is not checking birthday cakes (old TV cliche) to just blowing up and worrying about one of his old watches being given to Junior and not worried if he died first? That makes nose sense. Then Bow from how she quit her job to make Dre happy and then realizing, she enjoys no one home instead of worrying about her own baby. Then add in how she doesn't want to share anything because Dre is a baby about everything. Whens he always over shared EVERYTHING for four years. Once again, the plot is driving the characters and not the other way around. It rings false.

[debbie311]

17 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Then tell him.  The decision to hide that vital information can and will affect your financial settlement.

Bow and Dre just separated, it's not even a legal separation.  Believe me, if they do decide to legally separate/divorce, there will definitely be plenty of paperwork and disclosure about employment, assets and liabilities with lawyers to make sure of it.  Been there, done that.  I am sure Bow is not trying to hide her employment for that reason and wouldn't be able to even if she wanted to.  In my case I would have told Dre, but I think it just serves to illustrate the point that they can't and don't communicate.

Edited May 10, 2018 by debbie311

[Shermie]

Interesting that so many comment how much they hate this storyline ndont want to watch, yet the ep threads are filled the next day. I'm sure next week (the season finale, right?) will have even more viewers. Yeah, big mistake by the showrunners.

Quote

That kitchen is an eyesore

I don't care one way or another, but this mid-century modern style is becoming all the rage. I've seen kitchens with these exact cabinets - dark brown wood grain look - pop up on HGTV shows. In five years, everyone will want to rip out their stark white kitchens and replace them with warm brown ones. My actual peeve about TV kitchens is that the counters are always covered in clutter. And not normal toaster-coffeemaker-vase clutter, but crap from end to another, even in nicer homes like Modern Family, for example. Drives me nuts.

A divorce would be a bold choice for a family sitcom; I give them props for maybe going there. And I epeat, black-ish has east with many serious issues in the past; it's not a punchline-laughtrack driven sitcom. I thought that was obvious. Probably better to call it a dramedy.

I have no issue with Dre's shirt at Junior's grad. It's not a wedding or funeral, just a high school grad. They're long and dull, might as well be comfortable. And you know Dre probably spent $100s on it.  

I've never seen people get all done up in suits and dresses for high school grads. Or throw their kid a giant party. As someone with dozens of nieces and nephews, that sounds awful. Now the graduating kids having their own party? That's what happens around here. And sounds way more fun for the graduate then partying with a bunch of relatives.

[debbie311]

39 minutes ago, Shermie said:

Interesting that so many comment how much they hate this storyline ndont want to watch, yet the ep threads are filled the next day. I'm sure next week (the season finale, right?) will have even more viewers. Yeah, big mistake by the showrunners.

I don't care one way or another, but this mid-century modern style is becoming all the rage. I've seen kitchens with these exact cabinets - dark brown wood grain look - pop up on HGTV shows. In five years, everyone will want to rip out their stark white kitchens and replace them with warm brown ones. My actual peeve about TV kitchens is that the counters are always covered in clutter. And not normal toaster-coffeemaker-vase clutter, but crap from end to another, even in nicer homes like Modern Family, for example. Drives me nuts.

A divorce would be a bold choice for a family sitcom; I give them props for maybe going there. And I epeat, black-ish has east with many serious issues in the past; it's not a punchline-laughtrack driven sitcom. I thought that was obvious. Probably better to call it a dramedy.

I have no issue with Dre's shirt at Junior's grad. It's not a wedding or funeral, just a high school grad. They're long and dull, might as well be comfortable. And you know Dre probably spent $100s on it.  

I've never seen people get all done up in suits and dresses for high school grads. Or throw their kid a giant party. As someone with dozens of nieces and nephews, that sounds awful. Now the graduating kids having their own party? That's what happens around here. And sounds way more fun for the graduate then partying with a bunch of relatives.

Re graduations, the way it works here where I live (CA) - the day of graduation, there is a "grad nite" when the kids have a supervised all-night party at the school.  There is also very often a bus trip to Disneyland, where they close it down for high school grad night with lots of schools attending.

But ... there is always a family party, often on the following weekend.  Graduation is a rite of passage and deserves to be celebrated. I do put it up there with weddings and funerals. That's the thing that bothered me the most about the episode, that for the rest of his life Junior is going to remember how his graduation was spoiled by his selfish parents.  And sorry, Dre looked ridiculous in that t-shirt and I don't care how much it cost.

As to why I watch and then comment/complain on this forum, I think that's what it's for.  I am sure I will watch next week, but part of me wonders if this show has "jumped the shark."

[willowk]

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

At this point, Junior just cant win with Dre, its so depressing to watch. Every time he does something that Dre remotely approves of (like getting a girlfriend) he will act all weird about it, and then find something else to treat him like crap about. And even when he was the dang valedictorian, all he gets is a hand me down watch that Dre didnt even want to give him, with a generic note on it, while Zoe got a car AND a trip to Europe. Not even going to Dres beloved college can make Dre look at with with anything but disdain, all because Junior is a well meaning dork who doesn't fit his super narrow definition of what a black man should be. 

On top of all the other depressing stuff in this arc, that Dre and Junior stuff makes it even more sad to watch. How about we start that drinking game? Lord knows, I could do with some vodka to get through next week.

 

Junior in my opinion isn't treated that great by Bow either. She expected/needed way too much of his time to help take care of Devonte.

[Prin Holmes]

2 hours ago, willowk said:

Junior in my opinion isn't treated that great by Bow either. She expected/needed way too much of his time to help take care of Devonte.

Let's not forget her drive-by last season, when he got their favorite pizza restaurant shut down due to too many health code violations.  I still want to pummel her badly for that.

[mtlchick]

20 hours ago, Dee said:

I'm sick of St. Junior.

It will be great once he finally leaves for college and learns that his ultra creepy behavior is not cute.

Junior is the type who is socially awkward, uncool and a nerd (though he loves basketball, is smart and did have friends.)  I wouldn't call him creepy, his family didn't understand  (or wanted to understand) his quirks.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really felt for Junior because my parents were fighting a lot near the end of my senior year of high school so although I still enjoyed all the senior activities, there was a lot of negative stuff going on. I remember hoping that they would be able to make it through graduation and dinner afterward without a fight. They were still fighting my freshman year in college and I was so tired of it that when I came home for the weekend, I got fed up and said, "Can't you guys just stop for a few hours so we can have a meal without fighting and yelling?" I told them I wasn't expecting them to pretend everything was okay (because I hated when they did that too). I just wanted them to exercise enough self control that I could have dinner with them and my sisters without some kind of outburst.

One thing I HATED is that immediately after telling the kids that they were nesting, Dre and Bow said not to tell anyone. Again speaking from personal experience, do not ask me to keep secrets for you. It's an unfair burden to put on your children. Telling the kids not to say anything about this new situation to their teachers or friends automatically makes it feel like it's something they should be ashamed of when it actually has nothing to do with the kids at all in terms of shame/guilt/blame. I get not airing your problems to the whole world, but there is no need to make your kids feel like this is a dirty secret that they can't talk about with other people - ESPECIALLY knowing that it's going to cause them stress and they will eventually need an outlet. If Bow and Dre have given up on therapy, fine, but they should definitely look into finding one for the kids so that they have someone to talk to.

The main problem I have had with this whole storyline is that Dre keeps saying, "We just need to get back to us." How are you supposed to do that when you gave up on therapy, you don't live in the same house, and you barely speak to each other anymore?

I was also annoyed when Dre bitched at Bow about going to the principal's office. I think when your kid gets in trouble at school, you shouldn't be complaining that it's not your day with the kids. It may not be your day to be at home with the kids, but you are still a parent and that child is still your responsibility, which includes dealing with the consequences of his behavior and disciplining him (which does not include giving him ice cream after detention). It's not like Jack spilled his drink on the rug and Bow called Dre and told him that he had to clean it up. Given how terribly Bow and Dre are communicating right now, it's best that both of them were at that meeting so that it wasn't one parent saying, "Is that what the principal really said? Is that exactly what she said?"    

On 5/9/2018 at 10:39 PM, NUguy514 said:

I don't believe for one second that Bow wouldn't tell Dre that she was going back to work, not even with the writers' attempting to justify that by having her say she didn't want to deal with Dre's reaction (her rote response to everything in the last three episodes).  She was written that way so that Dre could blow up at her and they could officially separate.  Bow has always loved communication and sharing, so it just rings completely false to me that she's suddenly not interested in communicating; she's been doing this dance with him for over twenty years and suddenly decided to stop?  Nope, not buying it.  The writers have changed how they've always written Bow in order to suit the story they want to tell, and it's just not believable to me.  And it's really aggravating.

I agree that Bow of S1-S3 would have told Dre about it before she even did it. She would have told him as soon as she considered doing anything like that. But as she said in this episode, she's exhausted by him so I imagine that what she said was true - she knew how he would react (and he reacted exactly as I would have predicted too) and she just didn't want to have another fight with him, especially because now their fights keep spiraling away from what the initial cause was and end up being about everything.

11 hours ago, debbie311 said:

Re graduations, the way it works here where I live (CA) - the day of graduation, there is a "grad nite" when the kids have a supervised all-night party at the school.  There is also very often a bus trip to Disneyland, where they close it down for high school grad night with lots of schools attending.

But ... there is always a family party, often on the following weekend.  Graduation is a rite of passage and deserves to be celebrated. I do put it up there with weddings and funerals. That's the thing that bothered me the most about the episode, that for the rest of his life Junior is going to remember how his graduation was spoiled by his selfish parents.  And sorry, Dre looked ridiculous in that t-shirt and I don't care how much it cost.

I grew up in southern California and Mr. EB grew up in northern California and we both had the same experience. Our graduations are in the late afternoon/early evening so afterward everyone goes to dinner with their families (and changes out of the nice outfits underneath their graduation gowns) and then heads to grad nite at the school. Then the bus leaves for Disneyland the next day. Yes, even schools in northern California take a bus to Disneyland - someone I know who graduated from high school last June did it with her senior class the night of graduation and my reaction was daaaaaaaamn, they must really want to go to Disneyland. I know I wouldn't sit on a bus for six and a half hours just to go to Disneyland.

Our graduations were on Wednesday or Thursday so family parties were usually on the Friday or Saturday after graduation. I went to a pretty large high school and our football stadium originally only held 6,000 people (thankfully it got renovated so that it could hold 11,000 people), so we were each allowed only six tickets for graduation. A few days before graduation, if there were any extra tickets (due to students who did not use all six of their allotted tickets), we were allowed to pick up four more tickets for a potential total of ten tickets. Obviously if you have a lot of family in the area, that means not everyone can attend the actual ceremony, which is why so many people had family parties afterward. They usually weren't super fancy (as in a rented space with catered food). Most of the time it was at the house with tons of food in the backyard.

It was really surprising that we didn't see Johan, Santamonica, Rhonda, or Bow's dad at the party. Realistically, I'm sure it was about not paying for all the guest stars (look how infrequently we get Ruby and Pops in the same episode and they live in the same house as the family), but from a story point of view if you're having a family party for something as important as a graduation, it seems nonsensical to have so many family members missing without so much as a one line explanation. I guess they didn't want to draw any attention to it, but still. I'm not so distracted by the draaaaaaama that I'm going to forget that they have several more family members.

Dre's shirt was jarringly casual for something as important as his oldest son's graduation. I think a good rule of thumb for an occasion like that is "no visible words on shirts."

[qtpye]

15 hours ago, debbie311 said:

Re graduations, the way it works here where I live (CA) - the day of graduation, there is a "grad nite" when the kids have a supervised all-night party at the school.  There is also very often a bus trip to Disneyland, where they close it down for high school grad night with lots of schools attending.

But ... there is always a family party, often on the following weekend.  Graduation is a rite of passage and deserves to be celebrated. I do put it up there with weddings and funerals. That's the thing that bothered me the most about the episode, that for the rest of his life Junior is going to remember how his graduation was spoiled by his selfish parents.  And sorry, Dre looked ridiculous in that t-shirt and I don't care how much it cost.

As to why I watch and then comment/complain on this forum, I think that's what it's for.  I am sure I will watch next week, but part of me wonders if this show has "jumped the shark."

Also, the boy was the Valedictorian of his class and had a full scholarship to the college that Dre wanted him to go to. It is not like this is a family that his hurting for money. A tiny get together with his friends would have been no big deal. Instead, his parents barely say anything about his amazing grades, make everything about themselves, and he feels guilty that he did not "do more" to save their marriage, which is not his responsibility.

Edited May 11, 2018 by qtpye

[possibilities]

The difference between how they celebrated Zoe's graduation and Junior's is to me the most significant problem with how they handled it. I mean, parties, presents, all that stuff can arguably vary from family to family. But within the family, you shouldn't be playing favorites.

[morakot]

By the time they get to Devante, he'll be lucky to get a card.

[Lunula]

I had such hope towards the middle of the episode, when Bow witnessed the argument/lack of communication between Zoe & Luka and then they had a "real" conversation about the kids not adjusting well and the admission that they do "have something special" while at the jeweler. I really liked that and it seemed like the first real "Bow & Dre moment" we've had in 3 episodes. I wanted to see them continue to act like adults, like people who had something amazing for 20+ years and to realize how much they really have...together. That would be real to me.

And then it fell to pieces...in front of everyone. Ugh.

On a high note - at least the dog made an appearance! I was wondering what happened to him!

Edited May 11, 2018 by Lunula

[luna1122]

I looked up Dre's pink graduation sweater, and it's evidently a cashmere Valentino, and its cost: $995. Which still doesn't make it kind of stupid.

I'm baffled by the graduation gift to Junior. Sure, it was obviously an expensive watch, but it wasn't even purchased FOR him, and given grudgingly. Dre can afford 1000 dollar dumb sweaters and they can swing, apparently, two residences, and they gave Zoe a car AND a trip to Europe and he gets a hand me down.

I think the acting has been pretty impeccable for these episodes, but they sure aren't fun to watch. And Dre is such an asshole that I just want Bow to cut bait and run screaming. I buy her being done with him., I just never really bought why she's with him in the first place.

[luckyroll3]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:46 PM, itsjustme said:

Don't ya love a good old comedy?

At least this episode had a passing resemblance to a Blackish episode.

I had completely forgotten that Junior switched to public school last season.  Right before Earl commented on how much more difficult it is to spot Junior now, I was saying aloud, when did they get so many black kids at their school.  Lol!

The exchange between Ruby and Early about who's fault their divorce was, was also funny.

That was about it.

[jhlipton]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:49 PM, Shermie said:

Dre probably spent $100s on it. 

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I looked up Dre's pink graduation sweater, and it's evidently a cashmere Valentino, and its cost: $995. Which still doesn't make it kind of stupid.

In case anyone was interested, here it is: https://www.farfetch.com/shopping/men/valentino-intarsia-jumper-item-12198714.aspx
 

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Ok, so what the hell was Dre wearing at his son's graduation? I mean, for all his shows and looking good for big events, and that's how he dressed?

 

Yeah, unfortunately, this is a trend I've been noticing for a few years now. It's as if no one knows how to dress appropriately for special occasions anymore. Dre's attire would've been fine if he were doing something casual, but not for a graduation. I think Bow had jeans on.

I'm ok with this storyline because it's been a long time coming. I agree that Bow should've told Dre that she was going back to work. I don't think spouses should flip the script on each other. I felt the same way when Dre bought Ruby that car then told Bow afterward.   

I'm glad that Junior will be putting some distance between himself and his family. They don't deserve him.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Sheenieb

[Red Bridey]

I'm happy Bow took my advice and went back to work!  I'm sad for Junior.  No car and no graduation trip to Europe for him.  Just Dad's second-best watch. 

 

That's all I got.

[DianeDobbler]

I started binge-watching after seeing a clip of "Little white girl in an elevator"  - subscribed to Hulu for this show. Then ff to S4 when I read about the marriage-in-trouble arc.

I know the show has addressed the family's money situation before, but even during this arc I'm completely distracted because the writers seem to be writing a family that has successful show business money, not doctor-and-ad-vp money. Five kids, upscale taste, living large, and then during the kitchen reno Bow frets that she'd wanted to stay in a hotel. Not to mention the family can apparently do without Bow's income. Just crazy, and too casual, IMO. The cast is fantastic, though, and I do find this believable, as both Bow and Dre have enormous egos and vanity, IMO, and at some point this was going to happen. I believe from the very first they both kept score.

Janine said she'd never invited them because she thought they didn't like her (which is true). She'd overheard them trashing her - once on the baby monitor, and there were a few other incidents. At the same time, she IS racist. One thing the show does very well is show that mixed zone where white characters appear to not be racist but then have streaks of it that their black colleagues and friends just let go, because it's not worth it.

P.S., some of the conversation in flashbacks from Dre's childhood is so anachronistic I'm taken out of the show. "You have to keep choosing each other." Etc. I don't believe it. Shows do this all the time and it's always a distraction. Just write for the period.

Edited May 13, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[For Cereals]

On 5/1/2018 at 8:50 PM, JasmineFlower said:

This is one of my favorite shows, and it is a chore to watch at the moment because I'm not here for this. This is not a light-hearted break from life. 

So much this, not necessarily my fav, though, but I liked it.  I deal with enough drama all day, a sometimes 90 minute commute home...I want to veg out and laugh in my performance yoga pants sometimes to something a little more thought-provoking than Houswives, but not This Is Us, which I had to stop watching.

I agree the episode was well done, but Damn Gina!

Wait, Junior isn’t coming back?

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

How many 45-year-old+ DOCTORS with four kids already do you know that have a surprise pregnancy?

I just assumed that after the episode about the vasectomy-that-wasn't, Bow and Dre were playing contraceptive "chicken" -- she was saying, "If you don't get snipped, you know what could happen," he was saying, "If you don't go back on the Pill, you know what could happen," and both were thinking, "If it could happen, it would have happened by now." They weren't motivated to prevent it.  

[DianeDobbler]

I think they were playing contraceptive chicken as well. I don't like to think about it too much, because it makes me not like them. As different as they are, they each have problems owning what they do and how they act.

Junior - I think the party was smaller than DeVante's b'day party because all of Jr.'s friends were also graduating and would be celebrating w/their own families. And there was a stack of additional gifts in the background on the sideboard. However, Dre's casual attire, AND his attitude about giving Jr. his watch were hurtful. Jr. is a great kid whom any family would be grateful to have. Him not dressing "right" per Dre or being cool per Dre just turns me off to Dre. 

Actually, these two parents are lucky to have those kids. Zoey should be ten times more insufferable than she is, but she really cares about her siblings. The parents are definitely affectionate and spend a lot of time with the kids, but the over-riding concern about their parenting at large seems to be do the kids make me look good or do they make me look bad. A lot of what they give the kids is to make them, the parents, feel good about themselves and bask in the glow of their own wonderfulness. I actually think this is fairly realistic and not uncommon, but it's not so attractive to watch all the time.

The kitchen would be fine in another house but midcentury modern needs to go with a midcentury modern layout, and cohere with the rest of the design. Midcentury design developed when the kitchen was a separate room - before open floor plans came into vogue. Don Draper in Mad Men had a midcentury kitchen in his penthouse, but a) the entire penthouse was midcentury style, and b) the kitchen wasnt open plan, but separated by a pass through. We've got this very spare, no-light kitchen taking up space in an open floor plan that's supposed to maximize light and flow.

Edited May 13, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[Red Bridey]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:17 PM, jhlipton said:

Farmhouse sinks are a dumb idea for the reason Bow mentioned -- having two sinks is pretty necessary.

Marble sinks are a bad idea too.  Marble stains like anything -- there's a reason designers went from marble counters (for a brief moment) to granite ones.

I was thinking more that glasses and dishes are more apt to break and chip if the sink is marble.  And I have read (though not independently verified) that hand surgeons are having a field day repairing sliced hands from people putting their wine glasses down too hard on marble or granite countertops. 

[jhlipton]

On 5/11/2018 at 5:41 PM, Sheenieb said:

Dre's attire would've been fine if he were doing something casual, but not for a graduation.

I don't know where you wear a shirt that costs $1000 but looks like a grade school project...

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I don't know where you wear a shirt that costs $1000 but looks like a grade school project...

I really hate to sound sexist and agist, but that top is something a teenage girl or a young woman should/would wear, not a grown man. It looked completely ridiculous on Dre.

[readster]

25 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I really hate to sound sexist and agist, but that top is something a teenage girl or a young woman should/would wear, not a grown man. It looked completely ridiculous on Dre.

Considering what they did to their kitchen and Dre's constant shoe buying obsession. I can see him paying $1K for a shirt that would be on a freshman in college. 

[Guest]

As soon as I saw the shirt I thought of posting here that it was probably a $900 t-shirt, if it helped people balk less.  Good to know I was close!  Some of Zoe's clothes that look intentionally poorly constructed are super high-end brands my teen recognizes.  

I'm ok with his graduation attire in general, though he did look ridiculous.  And the words distracted me from the seriousness of the end of the scene. 

That graduation venue was tiny.  Here, graduation is in the football stadium and we're roasting in the bleachers so attendees wear as little as possible, but the graduating class is over 800 kids, too.  

Dre starting a fight at a family event celebrating junior was kind of a new low for me, for him.  I'm still ok with the storyline in general, but I find myself pulling for divorce.  

Those kitchen cabinets look like they're from Ikea, and the actors kind of fade into them unlike the old blue/white scheme.  I do like the new dining set, though.

[readster]

12 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

As soon as I saw the shirt I thought of posting here that it was probably a $900 t-shirt, if it helped people balk less.  Good to know I was close!  Some of Zoe's clothes that look intentionally poorly constructed are super high-end brands my teen recognizes.  

I'm ok with his graduation attire in general, though he did look ridiculous.  And the words distracted me from the seriousness of the end of the scene. 

That graduation venue was tiny.  Here, graduation is in the football stadium and we're roasting in the bleachers so attendees wear as little as possible, but the graduating class is over 800 kids, too.  

Dre starting a fight at a family event celebrating junior was kind of a new low for me, for him.  I'm still ok with the storyline in general, but I find myself pulling for divorce.  

Those kitchen cabinets look like they're from Ikea, and the actors kind of fade into them unlike the old blue/white scheme.  I do like the new dining set, though.

Another thing was this was a Public High School and while a good neighborhood and school. That was a very tiny graduating class for California. Had it been in a nice small town/city america, then I could buy it. I agree, this put Dre's man-baby ways to such a low it would go into 1 year old tantrum from getting his diaper changed. 

[Gothish520]

10 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

As soon as I saw the shirt I thought of posting here that it was probably a $900 t-shirt, if it helped people balk less.  Good to know I was close!  Some of Zoe's clothes that look intentionally poorly constructed are super high-end brands my teen recognizes.  

I'm ok with his graduation attire in general, though he did look ridiculous.  And the words distracted me from the seriousness of the end of the scene. 

That graduation venue was tiny.  Here, graduation is in the football stadium and we're roasting in the bleachers so attendees wear as little as possible, but the graduating class is over 800 kids, too.  

Dre starting a fight at a family event celebrating junior was kind of a new low for me, for him.  I'm still ok with the storyline in general, but I find myself pulling for divorce.  

Those kitchen cabinets look like they're from Ikea, and the actors kind of fade into them unlike the old blue/white scheme.  I do like the new dining set, though.

I figured it was an expensive designer piece too, was about to look it up when I saw @luna1122 had already done so (thanks!). Still think it looks silly on him, lol.

Technically Dre did start the argument, but Bow was right there with it.

I'm not a huge fan of the old kitchen (too stark), but it still appears it's a darn sight better than the new one - though I couldn't get a really good look at it yet. I would like to see a full view of the remodel.

I have to say that overall I'm really enjoying this arc - the acting and writing has been stellar.

[mansonlamps]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought the sweatshirt was weird and out of place. And if they were holding the graduation in the school auditorium (as they did mine a billion years ago), there's no way on earth Junior would have been able to bring that many people, there would have been a limit.  Have we had any inkling all along that Junior was valedictorian material?  For some reason, I thought Zoe and Diane were the smart ones.  However, I have to say I'm enjoying this arc as well, though of course it's terribly sad.  Oh, and everyone I know has big graduation parties for their kids, I didn't think that was odd at all.  I've even been invited to some where I didn't even know the kids, just their parents from work (and yes that was annoying).

[NUguy514]

21 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Have we had any inkling all along that Junior was valedictorian material?  For some reason, I thought Zoe and Diane were the smart ones.

He actually gave Zoe shit a season or two ago about how lazily she was approaching her college applications while he was doing a ton of stuff to boost his credentials, and he did, you know, get into Stanford.  So, yeah, I'd say we've had inklings that he was potentially valedictorian material.