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S07.E06: Beyond the Wall


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Jon's mission continues north of the wall, but the odds against his ragged band of misfits may be greater than he imagined.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

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Oh, man, I’m so sorry for  the dragon… Poor thing.  And now he’s a… wight!dragon. I guess he can throw some kind of extreme cold that freezes people on the spot or turns them into wights or something like that.

Btw, if he hadn’t died, we could have called this “The Battle of the Red Shirts”.

I knew Dany was going to go to rescue them. That’s my girl! And well, it seems the ship is real and growing stronger! I might have squealed a bit when he called her “my queen”.  Of course, Jon still has to find out about the Tarlys. It would be highly ironic if their deaths were considered a deal breaker, after everything we’ve seen.

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed. I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see the point in sending anyone from Winterfell to King’s Landing. If this is about the wight, the North already believes Jon or, at least, it’s willing to follow him.  And I can’t come up with any other logical reason.

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So, I watched the leaked episode Monday and halfway rewatched it just now. Still, I am forgetting a lot of what I originally wanted to say.

I have no problem with Arya’s vengeance list, but I am starting to have a problem with her bullshit with Sansa. Arya is thinking way too black and white (like her mother). I sympathize with her, but she is starting to annoy me. And then there is Sansa confiding in Littlefinger. Why? I am already over the Arya/Sansa angst.

This season, everyone is pointing out how “little” Jon/Kit is. Haha. I think it is funny and hope Kit is taking it in jest.

The death of Viserion is sad but no man or creature on this show ever heard of “serpentine”? Really? Still, I was said we lost one. Despite his death, that was another amazing dragon introduction and battle. The look on Dany’s face and the way the other dragons reacted made my heart wrench. Jon and Jorah’s look of pain (presumably for Dany’s lost) was heartbreaking too. And the Ice Polar Bears were scary looking.

Catching a whitewalker was an incredibly stupid plan!

It was good to see uncle Benjen again. Bye, Benjen because there is no way he made it. It was an awesome save though.

I must say that the whitewalkers reminded me a lot of the walkers on The Walking Dead, whereas they hadn’t before. Was that just me?

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Things that confused me:

Who send the letter to Sansa inviting her to KL? Cersei? Why?

Why did Gendry run one way and the suicide squad the other way if they were both going to Eastwatch?

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1 minute ago, Bongo Fury said:

That was one impressive spear throw, the Night King has one hell of an arm. He should sign with the Yankees, they'd pay him a fortune.

Unlike the scorpion device, it looks like he just needs to connect with it, and it'll go down. 

Still, quite the aim. 

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No hats, thin gloves, Dany should have already been at Eastwatch.

I liked the sister bit, Arya is getting played by LF, he's using her old hatred of Sansa's naive year.

I also think Sansa is playing both LF and Arya, LF to beat him, Arya to keep her hatred real.

the play on LF goes back to the sparring scene when Arya asked Breieene if she swore to both sister's which she nodded yes, they cut right to Sansa with a quick side glance, Arya with out knowing it dropped a possible opening for LF to use; this episode Sansa sends her away, removing that play from him.

Sansa's worry look after Brieene left is the same one she had in her wedding scene.

We got multple games here, I think Sansa is keeping Arya out of the Loop and seeing Bran off screen.

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28 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

 

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed. I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see the point in sending anyone from Winterfell to King’s Landing. If this is about the wight, the North already believes Jon or, at least, it’s willing to follow him.  And I can’t come up with any other logical reason.

I'm disappointed in both of them for different reasons. 

Arya is a little psychopath and it was disgusting (but admittedly exciting from a storytelling perspective) to watch her threaten her sister. So she thinks that it would have been better for her sister to die than to write a letter that is ultimately meaningless? Arya isn't stupid. She knows perfectly well that Sansa wrote that letter when she was a hostage and because Sansa wasn't physically tortured that means that she should have had the strength to refuse? Arya knows nothing about the fact that Sansa was beaten in public and in private because of Joffrey, so I wish that Sansa had mentioned it. It also seems to mean less than nothing to Arya that Sansa was forced to marry not one but two different men. 

I cringed at the way Sansa spoke to Brienne. Has Sansa done a single thing to earn Brienne's continued loyalty? I don't like the way Sansa takes Brienne for granted and hope that she learns to appreciate her. It's also sad that Sansa knows what sort of person Littlefinger is and still happily confides in him at any given turn. 

27 minutes ago, Bongo Fury said:

That was one impressive spear throw, the Night King has one hell of an arm. He should sign with the Yankees, they'd pay him a fortune.

Why didn't he go for Drogon? That made no sense to me. 

Also, can this guy not freeze water? I thought the Walkers brought the cold with them and that everything was unnaturally cold when they were around. Why couldn't they just freeze the lake? 

Why can't wights swim in freezing temperatures? You'd think they'd have an advantage over humans with that. 

How did Dany get there so fast? It seemed like only a day passed. Gendry runs back to the Wall, they send a raven, and Dany makes it back in about 24 hours or so? 

Edited by Avaleigh
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Arya has turned into a Sand Snake (Obarya Sand?) in her almost gleeful willingness to terrorize her own sister and blame her for being victimized by the Lannisters. 

I never thought I'd say this but I am sick of Arya going after Sansa. So she doesn't think Sansa could have gone through some changes during all these years? It's stupid and ridiculous.

I thought Jon and Dany showed some real chemistry during this episode.

Although if Jon hadn't kept stabbing wites and just got on the damn Dragon, I don't think that one would have been hit.

I mean I figured at some point we'd lose at one of the dragons and yeah it's stupid but I really ... I think I got some dust in my eye during that scene!

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11 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also loved her conversation with Tyrion over marriage possibilities and her apologizing for inadvertently insulting his size. But I agree with her: get the Iron Throne first, then discuss marriage possibilities.

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

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13 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed.

Yeah, there was a lot to love in this episode.  First there was the banter between the Magnificent Seven as they headed north (I laughed a LOT) and then I was literally on my feet watching the action north of the wall -- practically running in place with excitement.

But that bullshit in Winterfell made NO sense.  I guess we're supposed to assume that Littlefinger put a worm in Sansa's ear that since Brienne was pledged to BOTH Stark girls that she couldn't really be trusted by Sansa -- not now that Arya had revealed her dire mistrust of Sansa.   Ugh.  I hated it.

But the rest of the episode was made of WIN.

Edited by WatchrTina
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Im probably on the unpopular side of things but the quieter scenes did more for me than the hunt did.

I loved Dany and Tyrions talk, and I love that Tyrion wasn't the only one laying down lessons in that talk

That Arya Sansa scene might've worked tension wise if this show didn't go out of our way to show us that Arya's not a psycho.

Who sent Sansa that letter, I doubt it was anybody in Dany's group. Is Sansa really being hunted? 

The wight hunt felt much too western for my liking.

 

R.IP baby viserion.

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7 hours ago, stagmania said:

The continuing Tyrion/Daenerys arguments also boggle the mind. He wants her to do nothing, about anything. He believes in her so much that he thinks she should sit pretty inside a dead old castle and never put herself at risk or make any moves against her enemies. I don’t understand the way they’re writing him at all. I am also not picking up on any romantic intentions from him here, so I’m at a loss to explain his motivations other than writerly contrivance to stall the plot.

I was reminded of when he wanted Joffery, a child, to lead the army against Stannis. Yet here he is advising Daenerys, a grown woman, a queen who rides dragons, to stay hidden behind the walls. They are ruining Tyrion and I don't understand why.

Edited by SimoneS
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1 minute ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

I believe it' more a case of questioning her mortality and the fact that there's definitely better things to address at the moment. She's right, address it once she gets it not before.

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The one bright spot in the continuing stupidity in Winterfell was Sansa calling the other northern lords a bunch of weather vanes.  Truer words have never been spoken.  The rest of her interactions with Arya and Littlefinger were just asinine. 

 

9 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

By the way, was that Rhaegal or Viserion?

I seriously can't tell them apart.

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1 minute ago, stagmania said:

And again: why the hell is Sansa trusting and seeking out advice from Littlefinger?!

From the writers' comments in the previous Inside the Episode, I think their view is that Sansa will turn to him if her family is attacking her and she has nobody else to turn to (which, since in their view Winterfell consists of only main characters and all the Northern lords are shitheels [as Sansa accurately pointed out this episode, which was admittedly satisfying]), which is why Littlefinger baited Arya into confronting her.

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I wonder if Viserion will now breathe ice instead of fire?  Tired of the Sansa/Arya hatred and suspicion.  Not feeling Jon/Dany, though I know they are going there.  I need Cersei and Jamie to be tortured.  I need Tyrion to find true love.  I need Jorah to find true love.  I need Lady Mormont to be awesome.  I don't need much, do I?

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I can't be the only one that thinks Sansa and Arya are playig Littlefinger am I? Though I am not sure why if Sansa claims that any one of the Northern Lords would be glad to behead him.

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21 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Arya/Sansa scenes---What is this stupidity I just watched?  

I have no idea, it made no sense at all and it made even less since after that scene where LF is telling Sansa to use Brienne to keep her safe from Arya, then Sansa just sends Brienne away.  And someone even Ravens can travel at light speed now.

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5 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Full disclosure: I watched the episode early, so I’ve been stewing on this stuff for a few days before re-watching tonight. On second viewing, my initial opinion hasn’t changed: it’s a very exciting episode with a lot of really cool and interesting shit going down-most of which makes little sense.

Let’s get the timeline out of the way because lololololol. Somehow, some way, in just over the time it takes for the ice around the band of brothers to re-freeze (A few hours? Half a day?), the following things happen:

  • Gendry (who has never seen snow before this or been anywhere in the north but somehow finds his way straight back in a blizzard with no problems) runs to Eastwatch. Remember, they’ve been hiking from there all episode, the implication being they were hours away, but it takes him about 10 minutes to get back.
  • Eastwatch sends a raven to Dragonstone (maybe ravens have learned to teleport?)
  • Daenerys receives said raven, dons her best winter formal combat jacket, and heads out to fly many many miles to rescue them
  • Daenerys arrives with her dragons north of the wall.

Show, that is quite enough. You have taken this joke too far.

All of this. She finds them so easily and quickly it's like 'How on earth?' Good Lord, introduce the glass candles or something to explain how she got the message so fast. 

So the Night's King just told his wights to bring some big ass chains with them on the journey just in case? 

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5 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

Tyrion has become an idiotic lunatic. No wonder Daenerys doesn't trust his advice. She hasn't won the Iron Throne. How can she name a successor? Who do you would you suggest she designate that the Dothraki, Unsullied, the Lannister bannermen, and her dragons would obey? Anyway, the point of the conversation was to inform the audience that Dany believes that she is barren. She repeats this belief to Jon to reinforce the point. 

Edited by SimoneS
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Just now, Happy Harpy said:

You do NOT talk to Brienne of Tarth as if she was a piece of dirt under the sole of your shoe. 

You were quite happy to be "minded" when she saved you from your evil husband Ramsay's good men.

Is she not entitled to be frustrated with Brienne basically acting like her babysitter?

Just now, Oscirus said:

Who sent Sansa that letter, I doubt it was anybody in Dany's group.

It seems like it had to have come from Cersei.

Which...is weird. 

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