S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[Athena]

Quote

Jon's mission continues north of the wall, but the odds against his ragged band of misfits may be greater than he imagined.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Meredith Quill]

No words, just...

[dirtypop90]

Arya/Sansa scenes---What is this stupidity I just watched?  +Jon tbh.  Are TPTB just trying to hammer home the point that Starks are stupid.  Like, is that the point of this show?  or will there be an aboutface next episode? I know nothing.

I feel comfortable saying this since only one episode remains---I'm not into this season.  Not sure what the issue is. Maybe the plot is moving too quickly? and it's obvious things are happening that don't make sense just to push the plot along.

Edited August 21, 2017 by dirtypop90
typo

[Francie]

Looks like one of Oppenheimer's deadly toys just fell into the hands of the Soviets.

The Night King said he will bury you.

But I don't subscribe to that point of view. 

Believe me when I say to you. 

I hope the White Walkers love their children too!

[anamika]

Dany continues to be the MVP this season. She's fucking awesome. Also she looked so beautiful in all that snow. A true Ice Queen!

[Spartan Girl]

So now the Night King has a zombie ice dragon. Westeros is boned.

Poor Dany. Losing one child is more than enough, and now she's lost another.

On a shallow note, I loved her Snow Dragon Queen look.

Also loved her conversation with Tyrion over marriage possibilities and her apologizing for inadvertently insulting his size. But I agree with her: get the Iron Throne first, then discuss marriage possibilities. But I think she's definitely leaning towards Jon...

Boy, how weird is it to hear someone call her Dany? Nobody has called her that since season one!

Littlefinger can go die now.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[Drogo]

Sandor, Gendry and Brienne are equally appreciative of Tormund's sexual advances. 

ETA: Sneak peek of me talking about this episode at work tomorrow:

Edited August 21, 2017 by Drogo
Wahhhhhh

[Helena Dax]

Oh, man, I’m so sorry for  the dragon… Poor thing.  And now he’s a… wight!dragon. I guess he can throw some kind of extreme cold that freezes people on the spot or turns them into wights or something like that.

Btw, if he hadn’t died, we could have called this “The Battle of the Red Shirts”.

I knew Dany was going to go to rescue them. That’s my girl! And well, it seems the ship is real and growing stronger! I might have squealed a bit when he called her “my queen”.  Of course, Jon still has to find out about the Tarlys. It would be highly ironic if their deaths were considered a deal breaker, after everything we’ve seen.

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed. I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see the point in sending anyone from Winterfell to King’s Landing. If this is about the wight, the North already believes Jon or, at least, it’s willing to follow him.  And I can’t come up with any other logical reason.

[Enigma X]

So, I watched the leaked episode Monday and halfway rewatched it just now. Still, I am forgetting a lot of what I originally wanted to say.

I have no problem with Arya’s vengeance list, but I am starting to have a problem with her bullshit with Sansa. Arya is thinking way too black and white (like her mother). I sympathize with her, but she is starting to annoy me. And then there is Sansa confiding in Littlefinger. Why? I am already over the Arya/Sansa angst.

This season, everyone is pointing out how “little” Jon/Kit is. Haha. I think it is funny and hope Kit is taking it in jest.

The death of Viserion is sad but no man or creature on this show ever heard of “serpentine”? Really? Still, I was said we lost one. Despite his death, that was another amazing dragon introduction and battle. The look on Dany’s face and the way the other dragons reacted made my heart wrench. Jon and Jorah’s look of pain (presumably for Dany’s lost) was heartbreaking too. And the Ice Polar Bears were scary looking.

Catching a whitewalker was an incredibly stupid plan!

It was good to see uncle Benjen again. Bye, Benjen because there is no way he made it. It was an awesome save though.

I must say that the whitewalkers reminded me a lot of the walkers on The Walking Dead, whereas they hadn’t before. Was that just me?

[Meredith Quill]

Dany's coat was fabulous, I want one.

[Bongo Fury]

That was one impressive spear throw, the Night King has one hell of an arm. He should sign with the Yankees, they'd pay him a fortune.

[Francie]

Oh red shirts.

You can dress red shirts in fur, but you can't make them live. 

[anamika]

Things that confused me:

Who send the letter to Sansa inviting her to KL? Cersei? Why?

Why did Gendry run one way and the suicide squad the other way if they were both going to Eastwatch?

[Francie]

1 minute ago, Bongo Fury said:

That was one impressive spear throw, the Night King has one hell of an arm. He should sign with the Yankees, they'd pay him a fortune.

Unlike the scorpion device, it looks like he just needs to connect with it, and it'll go down. 

Still, quite the aim. 

[bluvelvet]

While this episode did not have the gravitas as prior episode "9"s I am officially shook!!

[UNOSEZ]

I guess she may try and take arya out... That's the only reason I see to send brienne away... And I really hope I get my Jon/arya reunion next episode

[SeanC]

I don’t know about anyone else, but my TV started to have audio problems with Arya’s dialogue at the point where she drew that knife and tried to convince Sansa that she was about to peel her face off.  I think it was probably the sound of Ned and Cat spinning in their graves.

I commented in respect of 704 that the ambush sequence is a case where the show’s plotting didn’t interfere with my enjoyment of the spectacle, and that’s generally where this show is at its best.  The wight hunt had some damn fine action sequences, but hoo boy is the plotting constantly interfering with my enjoyment of it.  Much of the discourse around this season has concerned the plausibility of travel times, etc. and how much can be inferred to have passed offscreen, but this episode snaps any plausibility in that regard, between Usain Gendry’s run back to Eastwatch, followed by the world’s fastest raven covering the better part of 2000 miles to Dragonstone, and then Dany and her dragons flying up, all the while Jon and his team are encircled on a small island, completely exposed to the elements, and waiting only for the ice to freeze again.  We’re talking a day or two, tops.  And that’s just nonsense.  And then there’s the extreme bullshit of Jon being fully submerged in freezing water and somehow not dying of hypothermia after riding for hours and hours in sub-zero temperatures.  And, for some reason, despite knowing that dragonglass insta-kills wights (see, Beric using that dagger on the polar bear) nobody in the Fellowship of the Wight is using dragonglass blades as their primary weapon.

The character interactions in the course of and after the wight hunt were good, admittedly (Jon and Dany had the most chemistry I’ve seen between them to date in their final scene).

And then there is the utter clusterfuck that is the Winterfell plot, where Arya has turned into a Sand Snake (Obarya Sand?) in her almost gleeful willingness to terrorize her own sister and blame her for being victimized by the Lannisters.  While it’s of course impossible for Sansa to have made the following rejoinder because she doesn’t know about it, I dearly wish she had said “I hear Tywin Lannister said you were a great cupbearer.”

Also, on the subject of the scene with Dany and Tyrion, the show continually talks the talk about fear being a brittle basis for power, but it never walks the walk.  It’s the exact same as with Ramsay last year, where we were told constantly that Ramsay’s cruelty and lack of self-control would be his undoing, but it never had any consequences.  How brittle is Cersei’s power, exactly?  She has effortless control of the city despite have blown up the holiest spot in it and killed numerous civilians along with the Pope, she was able to get the Tyrells’ own bannermen to switch sides, and the only defeat she’s sustained all season was because of Dany unleashing raw power at last.  If the show wants to talk about how fear isn’t sufficient, then it needs to, at some point, show the people who rule through fear experiencing blowback for it.  And that is not merely them losing in the end, which is what the writers seemed to think Ramsay’s defeat showed.

[Skeeter22]

So Faceless Men just carry their faces around in their luggage? Seems very inconvenient. 

[GrailKing]

No hats, thin gloves, Dany should have already been at Eastwatch.

I liked the sister bit, Arya is getting played by LF, he's using her old hatred of Sansa's naive year.

I also think Sansa is playing both LF and Arya, LF to beat him, Arya to keep her hatred real.

the play on LF goes back to the sparring scene when Arya asked Breieene if she swore to both sister's which she nodded yes, they cut right to Sansa with a quick side glance, Arya with out knowing it dropped a possible opening for LF to use; this episode Sansa sends her away, removing that play from him.

Sansa's worry look after Brieene left is the same one she had in her wedding scene.

We got multple games here, I think Sansa is keeping Arya out of the Loop and seeing Bran off screen.

[Enigma X]

I want to know where the dead got those heavy chains from to lift Viserion from the icy waters.

[Blonde Gator]

Danaerys surely rocked that Dragon Rider outfit.  Best Costume ever on this show.

[WatchrTina]

And to think, I was worried about seeing zombie versions of Summer the direwolf and Hodor.

Edited August 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[scarynikki12]

Ride that dragon Night King! 

By the way, was that Rhaegal or Viserion?

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, Enigma X said:

I want to know where the dead got those heavy chains from to lift Viserion from the icy waters.

My head canon says Amazon.

[Avaleigh]

28 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

 

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed. I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see the point in sending anyone from Winterfell to King’s Landing. If this is about the wight, the North already believes Jon or, at least, it’s willing to follow him.  And I can’t come up with any other logical reason.

I'm disappointed in both of them for different reasons. 

Arya is a little psychopath and it was disgusting (but admittedly exciting from a storytelling perspective) to watch her threaten her sister. So she thinks that it would have been better for her sister to die than to write a letter that is ultimately meaningless? Arya isn't stupid. She knows perfectly well that Sansa wrote that letter when she was a hostage and because Sansa wasn't physically tortured that means that she should have had the strength to refuse? Arya knows nothing about the fact that Sansa was beaten in public and in private because of Joffrey, so I wish that Sansa had mentioned it. It also seems to mean less than nothing to Arya that Sansa was forced to marry not one but two different men. 

I cringed at the way Sansa spoke to Brienne. Has Sansa done a single thing to earn Brienne's continued loyalty? I don't like the way Sansa takes Brienne for granted and hope that she learns to appreciate her. It's also sad that Sansa knows what sort of person Littlefinger is and still happily confides in him at any given turn. 

27 minutes ago, Bongo Fury said:

That was one impressive spear throw, the Night King has one hell of an arm. He should sign with the Yankees, they'd pay him a fortune.

Why didn't he go for Drogon? That made no sense to me. 

Also, can this guy not freeze water? I thought the Walkers brought the cold with them and that everything was unnaturally cold when they were around. Why couldn't they just freeze the lake? 

Why can't wights swim in freezing temperatures? You'd think they'd have an advantage over humans with that. 

How did Dany get there so fast? It seemed like only a day passed. Gendry runs back to the Wall, they send a raven, and Dany makes it back in about 24 hours or so? 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Avaleigh

[WatchrTina]

13 minutes ago, doram said:

Viserion!

???????

RIP

Alas, he did not rest in peace.

Edited August 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[AuxArx]

Oh shit....

[stagmania]

Full disclosure: I watched the episode early, so I’ve been stewing on this stuff for a few days before re-watching tonight. On second viewing, my initial opinion hasn’t changed: it’s a very exciting episode with a lot of really cool and interesting shit going down-most of which makes little sense.

Let’s get the timeline out of the way because lololololol. Somehow, some way, in just over the time it takes for the ice around the band of brothers to re-freeze (A few hours? Half a day?), the following things happen:

• Gendry (who has never seen snow before this or been anywhere in the north but somehow finds his way straight back in a blizzard with no problems) runs to Eastwatch. Remember, they’ve been hiking from there all episode, the implication being they were hours away, but it takes him about 10 minutes to get back.
• Eastwatch sends a raven to Dragonstone (maybe ravens have learned to teleport?)
• Daenerys receives said raven, dons her best winter formal combat jacket, and heads out to fly many many miles to rescue them
• Daenerys arrives with her dragons north of the wall.

Show, that is quite enough. You have taken this joke too far.

[SimoneS]

10 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Dany's coat was fabulous, I want one.

Seriously, I would buy one if they produced them. It was stunning.

[ParadoxLost]

I was screaming save the ginger very loudly for a very long time.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Arya has turned into a Sand Snake (Obarya Sand?) in her almost gleeful willingness to terrorize her own sister and blame her for being victimized by the Lannisters. 

I never thought I'd say this but I am sick of Arya going after Sansa. So she doesn't think Sansa could have gone through some changes during all these years? It's stupid and ridiculous.

I thought Jon and Dany showed some real chemistry during this episode.

Although if Jon hadn't kept stabbing wites and just got on the damn Dragon, I don't think that one would have been hit.

I mean I figured at some point we'd lose at one of the dragons and yeah it's stupid but I really ... I think I got some dust in my eye during that scene!

[mojoween]

If it's wrong to cry over the death of a made-up CGI dragon well too fucking bad.

[Raachel2008]

Jon's six pack >>>> death.

[stagmania]

Okay, more thoughts. Benjen’s death made no sense to me whatsoever. “There’s no time!” No time for what? To climb on the horse and ride away with Jon? Of course there was. What a bizarre way for Jon to meet his uncle again, with not even a moment to pause and understand what he was seeing, and for Benjen’s story to end. That could’ve been done much better, IMO. Jack and Rose and the wooden door all over again.

I thought the Arya/Sansa stuff escalated way too quickly. They are clearly cutting corners because of the reduced episode order, but some development is needed before you just jump into the sisters thinking about killing each other. Arya acting all menacing, Sansa confiding in Littlefinger of all people, Sansa sending Brienne away (seemingly so she could clear the way in case she decides to go after Arya???), Arya going full psycho threatening to cut off Sansa’s face. I mean, what the hell. You have to build to something of this magnitude, you can’t just have it all happen in two scenes because Arya found an old letter that was so obviously planted to manipulate her. And again: why the hell is Sansa trusting and seeking out advice from Littlefinger?!

The continuing Tyrion/Daenerys arguments also boggle the mind. He wants her to do nothing, about anything. He believes in her so much that he thinks she should sit pretty inside a dead old castle and never put herself at risk or make any moves against her enemies. I don’t understand the way they’re writing him at all. I am also not picking up on any romantic intentions from him here, so I’m at a loss to explain his motivations other than writerly contrivance to stall the plot.

Also on Daenerys: those baby anvils are dropping fast and furious. I am not really looking for an aunt+ nephew+ baby Targaryen family ending, but it sure does look like that’s where they’re taking us. Both she and Jon were on the receiving end of commentary about their heirs or lack thereof in this episode, and she explicitly told Jon she can’t have children, which is basically a cosmic dare. Also, I cringed when he called her Dany. A little less meta fan service, show.

The Hound is an asshole and I really don’t get why people ‘ship him with anyone. Poor Thoros died to save him and not only did he let him get thrashed without trying to do something, anything (even calling someone else over to help), he then steals shit from his body the second he goes cold. And no, I don’t care that it’s all a façade to mask his true squishy feelings. I am not impressed.

I think it’s safe to say that the writers of this show have serious daddy issues. All these interesting character pairings with so many connections and so much rich history between them and all they ever talk about are their fathers.

In conclusion, zombie dragon!

[Avaleigh]

11 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also loved her conversation with Tyrion over marriage possibilities and her apologizing for inadvertently insulting his size. But I agree with her: get the Iron Throne first, then discuss marriage possibilities.

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

[WatchrTina]

13 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed.

Yeah, there was a lot to love in this episode.  First there was the banter between the Magnificent Seven as they headed north (I laughed a LOT) and then I was literally on my feet watching the action north of the wall -- practically running in place with excitement.

But that bullshit in Winterfell made NO sense.  I guess we're supposed to assume that Littlefinger put a worm in Sansa's ear that since Brienne was pledged to BOTH Stark girls that she couldn't really be trusted by Sansa -- not now that Arya had revealed her dire mistrust of Sansa.   Ugh.  I hated it.

But the rest of the episode was made of WIN.

Edited August 21, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Oscirus]

Im probably on the unpopular side of things but the quieter scenes did more for me than the hunt did.

I loved Dany and Tyrions talk, and I love that Tyrion wasn't the only one laying down lessons in that talk

That Arya Sansa scene might've worked tension wise if this show didn't go out of our way to show us that Arya's not a psycho.

Who sent Sansa that letter, I doubt it was anybody in Dany's group. Is Sansa really being hunted? 

The wight hunt felt much too western for my liking.

 

R.IP baby viserion.

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, stagmania said:

The continuing Tyrion/Daenerys arguments also boggle the mind. He wants her to do nothing, about anything. He believes in her so much that he thinks she should sit pretty inside a dead old castle and never put herself at risk or make any moves against her enemies. I don’t understand the way they’re writing him at all. I am also not picking up on any romantic intentions from him here, so I’m at a loss to explain his motivations other than writerly contrivance to stall the plot.

I was reminded of when he wanted Joffery, a child, to lead the army against Stannis. Yet here he is advising Daenerys, a grown woman, a queen who rides dragons, to stay hidden behind the walls. They are ruining Tyrion and I don't understand why.

Edited August 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[Happy Harpy]

You do NOT talk to Brienne of Tarth as if she was a piece of dirt under the sole of your shoe. 

You were quite happy to be "minded" when she saved you from your evil husband Ramsay's good men.

Oh, and remember how you ended-up married to evil  Ramsay? Yes, when you sent Brienne away and chose to keep Littlefinger close.

STFU Sansa.

[TaurusRose]

Sansa is a cow and a bitch. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but it's mine. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by taurusrose

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

I believe it' more a case of questioning her mortality and the fact that there's definitely better things to address at the moment. She's right, address it once she gets it not before.

[mac123x]

The one bright spot in the continuing stupidity in Winterfell was Sansa calling the other northern lords a bunch of weather vanes.  Truer words have never been spoken.  The rest of her interactions with Arya and Littlefinger were just asinine. 

 

9 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

By the way, was that Rhaegal or Viserion?

I seriously can't tell them apart.

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

And again: why the hell is Sansa trusting and seeking out advice from Littlefinger?!

From the writers' comments in the previous Inside the Episode, I think their view is that Sansa will turn to him if her family is attacking her and she has nobody else to turn to (which, since in their view Winterfell consists of only main characters and all the Northern lords are shitheels [as Sansa accurately pointed out this episode, which was admittedly satisfying]), which is why Littlefinger baited Arya into confronting her.

[Ocean Chick]

I wonder if Viserion will now breathe ice instead of fire?  Tired of the Sansa/Arya hatred and suspicion.  Not feeling Jon/Dany, though I know they are going there.  I need Cersei and Jamie to be tortured.  I need Tyrion to find true love.  I need Jorah to find true love.  I need Lady Mormont to be awesome.  I don't need much, do I?

[Constantinople]

Arya seems to have forgotten who served as Lord Tywin's cupbearer

[LanceM]

I can't be the only one that thinks Sansa and Arya are playig Littlefinger am I? Though I am not sure why if Sansa claims that any one of the Northern Lords would be glad to behead him.

[Shimmergloom]

21 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Arya/Sansa scenes---What is this stupidity I just watched?  

I have no idea, it made no sense at all and it made even less since after that scene where LF is telling Sansa to use Brienne to keep her safe from Arya, then Sansa just sends Brienne away.  And someone even Ravens can travel at light speed now.

[Avaleigh]

5 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Full disclosure: I watched the episode early, so I’ve been stewing on this stuff for a few days before re-watching tonight. On second viewing, my initial opinion hasn’t changed: it’s a very exciting episode with a lot of really cool and interesting shit going down-most of which makes little sense.

Let’s get the timeline out of the way because lololololol. Somehow, some way, in just over the time it takes for the ice around the band of brothers to re-freeze (A few hours? Half a day?), the following things happen:

• Gendry (who has never seen snow before this or been anywhere in the north but somehow finds his way straight back in a blizzard with no problems) runs to Eastwatch. Remember, they’ve been hiking from there all episode, the implication being they were hours away, but it takes him about 10 minutes to get back.
• Eastwatch sends a raven to Dragonstone (maybe ravens have learned to teleport?)
• Daenerys receives said raven, dons her best winter formal combat jacket, and heads out to fly many many miles to rescue them
• Daenerys arrives with her dragons north of the wall.

Show, that is quite enough. You have taken this joke too far.

All of this. She finds them so easily and quickly it's like 'How on earth?' Good Lord, introduce the glass candles or something to explain how she got the message so fast. 

So the Night's King just told his wights to bring some big ass chains with them on the journey just in case? 

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

Tyrion has become an idiotic lunatic. No wonder Daenerys doesn't trust his advice. She hasn't won the Iron Throne. How can she name a successor? Who do you would you suggest she designate that the Dothraki, Unsullied, the Lannister bannermen, and her dragons would obey? Anyway, the point of the conversation was to inform the audience that Dany believes that she is barren. She repeats this belief to Jon to reinforce the point. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

Just now, Happy Harpy said:

You do NOT talk to Brienne of Tarth as if she was a piece of dirt under the sole of your shoe. 

You were quite happy to be "minded" when she saved you from your evil husband Ramsay's good men.

Is she not entitled to be frustrated with Brienne basically acting like her babysitter?

Just now, Oscirus said:

Who sent Sansa that letter, I doubt it was anybody in Dany's group.

It seems like it had to have come from Cersei.

Which...is weird.