S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[dragonsbite]

Was I the only one cheering for Arya's return, only to be disappointed that it was Bran?

(Not that I mind Bran's appearance since he can get in Littlefinger's way.)

[Mya Stone]

[thegreathoo]

She's eyeing him as marriage material.  Women always scheming.  The man came over for business tho!

[Shimmergloom]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Hell, Jon got shanked because the frigging NW did not believe in the WW.

 

I don't think that's why they killed him.  They killed Jon cause he made peace with the Wildlings and they could not let millennia of hatred go.

Quote

She does basic, common sense shit and it's all "look at badass ruler Sansa" and "all she needed was Jon to leave her alone to shine."  She hasn't done a thing.  Storing food and adding some layers to armor is pretty basic shit.  

But I guess you could say, why wasn't Jon or anyone else handling that?  He was concentrated on the war and not the day to day details.  And I mean that basic shit is just as important as gathering an army. 

 

Quote

At the very least, she could get rid of Littlefinger, a known traitor to her.

I don't think anyone knows what Littlefinger did in far of betraying Ned, getting Jon Arryn killed, etc.  Now if Sansa does trust him and believes he didn't know about Ramsay that would be stupid.  But I think from Sansa's quips, she doesn't trust him.  She just knows they need him for now, since from what we've been shown, Robin trusts him and we have to offscreen accept that if she sends Littlefinger away, he can get Robin to order the Vale troops to leave too.

Quote

That makes it even worse, her not talking about the insanity of him being brought back from the dead is terrible writing. 

It's possible that since all the Stark kids were likely brought up on Old Nan's tales and not just Bran, that Jon coming back to life and White Walkers being real is not so insane to Sansa and she can more readily accept that.

[KaleyFirefly]

3 hours ago, stagmania said:

Dead Tree Bran really came out of nowhere. He was still a person at the end of s6, and even at the Wall a couple weeks back he showed more personality than this. 

the old 3-eyed Raven showed more personality too

[Raachel2008]

I like this episode a lot, it was the first episode this season that felt like GoT for me.

The best scene  was Ellaria and Cersei in the dungeon, hands down. Indira Varna and Lena Headey knocked it out of the park.  The writing was awesome, the directing was fantastic and it was such a study of the character of Cersei: the mother who mourned her daughter, the ruthless woman who tortured her young brother when he was a baby, the queen/boss who has no qualms in using her power to do as she pleases. She was utterly cold and she was utterly human and that human part was mirrored by Ellaria who is going to suffer like very few have in this show. IMO, one of the best scenes in the series. Best line: "(As mothers) we are not supposed to have favorites, but we do". Oh, and baby Snake, was great too.

Diana Rigg has been a delight to watch and  I will miss seeing her on my screen. But Olenna's had nowehere to go. I loved how she was very pratical asking how she was going to die, if she would suffer with the poison, stating how her house  is about roses, and how she makes sure to tell Jamie that she killed Joffrey. For a moment I thought he was going to kill her, but I'm glad he didn't. Olenna is right, Jamie loves Cersei, has always loved, though I don't think Cersei will be the end of Jamie: they will be each other's end and he is the valonqr.

Many people think Jamie loves Brienne, I've always thought that what he saw in Brienne was the man he could have been had his life been very differently. For me it has always been clear that Cersei is the love of his life, has always been. If anyone has any doubts about that, just rewacth their scene in bed, the way he looks at her after everything she has done. Nikolaj Coster Waldau did an awesome job too, though I don't feel sorry for Jamie at all.

I can't with Euron, I just can't. I know he adds some bizarre humor to the show, but he is like an adrenaline junkie on steroids. I feel like we should fear him and sure he is cruel and merciless, but he lacks the coldness or the poweress of Twyin and Ramsay or even the High Sparrow.

Praise the old and new gods, but it looks like Tyrion is back, the real Tyrion not that sad thing that was on my screen last season. Loved all his scenes with Dany, loved his scenes with Jon even more, and would have killed for a scene with him and Davos alone.

I loved how Jamie outsmarted Tyrion and used Castle Rock as bait by doing what Rob  did to him. Jamie's story is so tied to his relationship to Cersei, that it is nice when it is shown that he is an accomplished military man.

I know this season is short and they need to move things quickly, but would it have hurt to have it explained that Jorah needed to be quarantined for a few days or something like that? 

Great scene with Cersei and the Iron Bank guy.

Bran was creepy, just plain creepy. He could have mentioned anything that happened to Sansa since the last time they saw each other, but the show chose to remind us that Ramsay raped her, which we already know. I mean, really? What for?

Their meeting, though, was super emotional and I loved it, even though Bran was not really there. It was nice to see Sansa reminding him that he is the Lord Winterfell, and overall Sophie did a great job. I liked A LOT the scnene were Sansa is talking about food with what I assume is her small council. This is what they should have done last season, showing her learning how to be a manager/ruler, asking, being taught. Then, of course, they had to ruin it by having  that stupid scene about the armor. Because of course Sansa, who was a small child the last time winter was there and never wore an armor her entire life would know more about a proper armor for winter than the blacksmith doing that or Royce.

Also kudos to the poster who noticed that people in the streets are now sporting Cersei's pixie. 

[britesongs]

2 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I think Bran was in shock - that's why he is all monotone.  If he knows what has happened to Sansa - his mind  couldn't possibly handle the information on what Arya has been up to.

He was like that when they were reunited initially. It seemed like he was looking through her, and he didn't even reach to hug her, just sat there blankly. Meera's one shot showed more expression than Bran's. And I don't care how many visions of history or whatever are flying around in your brain. You see your sister, who left several years ago WHILE YOU WERE STILL IN A COMA, and you barely register her presence? I'm sorry. There HAS to be a bigger reaction. His behavior and mannerisms feel very put-on, and whether it's purposeful characterization or just crap acting, it doesn't work. IMO, at least.

I'm slightly more tolerant of his behavior during the scene at the heart tree, but if he spent the time actually explaining the situation instead of just saying it's hard to explain, he'd probably make some progress. I have no patience for him.

Edited July 31, 2017 by britesongs
prepositions are cool

[MadMouse]

9 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

It's possible that since all the Stark kids were likely brought up on Old Nan's tales and not just Bran, that Jon coming back to life and White Walkers being real is not so insane to Sansa and she can more readily accept that.

Going by her actions and words, I don't know if she truly believes in the Walkers. That's not just her either all the Northern and Vale lords seem to kinda of believe it.  Did Ned really believe? From his conversation with Benjen in season 1 he just dismissed any talk of them too. Most of them seemed more concerned with Cersei or whether Dany can be trusted instead of the real threat.  Jon and Davos seem to be the only ones who besides the NW and wildlings who truly get it. Going by what we've seen I think that's going to be his arc this season, not the struggle against the Walkers but getting people to see the truth. At this point he's the homeless guy on the corner yelling about the end of days.

Whats the quote seeing is believing? I just can't accept that Sansa wouldn't have some sort of conversation or general freak out about her half brother being a fire wight. He wasn't brought back by the Old Gods but by a priestess of a foreign religion. That's not something you just go okay and make a joke about. She had more of a reaction to peeping Bran than that.

[rozen]

If Sansa got rid of every known traitor to the Starks, there'd be pretty much no one left to advise her. Reminds me of Misil in KDrama Queen Seondeok when she castigates her stupid sons for a botched assassination attempt: if you murder everyone who's a threat to you, you'll also eliminate anyone useful to you. So if someone's useful, you better make use of them! LF is teaching her, while also warning her of his inevitable betrayal, this is pretty much the nicest we've ever seen him. I like they are showing that Sansa is the details person to Jon's sweeping plans one. She's addressing basic things, and in that is the implication that Jon has not addressed them. Also, Sansa was trained to be a great lady and run a Queen's household, so yea, she's got a pretty awesome skillset in this particular area. Catelyn surely drilled her for years like any soldier.

Dany feels very brittle and unsure this episode, makes her more human and realistic. This her first major interaction with a major lord in Westeros, ofc she wants to to go smoothly and establish her dominance. Yea, she's had leaders sneer in her face before, but she knows she literally had to burn every goddamn thing to the ground to get said leaders to give up. She doesn't want to do that to her homeland, so yea, she wants everyone to stfu and bend the knee so she can move past that part of her reign. Unfortunately, Jon is the worst person to practice imperial domination on. I also love that although Dany has literal dragons that no one has seen in over a lifetime, everyone is still rolling their eyes at Jon's 'Army of the Dead'. My magic is sensible, yours is insane. At least the dragonglass will start shipping to Winterfell soon. They made Jon and Dany's eyes seem very big and dark compared to everyone else's this episode. Nice hint of relation where they otherwise look nothing alike.

Cersei is so nasty, but man was that vengeance perfectly executed. Stuck in a dungeon, watching her last daughter's corpse rot. *Shudder*. I hope Ellaria has a secret poison tooth or something so she can peace out swiftly. I see the producers trying to absolve themselves of Jamie's rape last season by having Ceresei jump on Jamie despite his saying 'no'. Nice try, no dice.

I like Euron's actor because he makes me think he knows it's all bullshit and would happily murder every non-Ironborn in a heartbeat. There better be some magic to his fleets though, because these ninja ships are becoming ridiculous and making everyone look like an idiot. Fast, blackened ships that are more adept at open sea warfare getting the jump on a smaller fleet at night? Fine. Same ships somehow creeping up on a fleet and destroying it outright in broad daylight? Y'all, what? 

Ha, Olenna's such a boss. 

Why is Bran a wise vegetable now? He was a petulant man-boy like two episode ago. Now he's all mystical and 'it's hard to explain'. Whatever, dude, you got the old three-eyed-raven killed and inherited his mantle. Sansa is perfectly capable of understanding that.

Edited July 31, 2017 by rozen

[Shimmergloom]

9 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

 

Whats the quote seeing is believing? I just can't accept that Sansa wouldn't have some sort of conversation or general freak out about her half brother being a fire wight. He wasn't brought back by the Old Gods but by a priestess of a foreign religion. That's not something you just go okay and make a joke about. She had more of a reaction to peeping Bran than that.

Yeah, but I think her reaction was more from being reminded of what happened to her, than from the fact that it proved that Bran could see things.  And from that scene, we could see that Sansa was wanting to understand what had happened to Bran and for him to explain it to her.  So we can assume Jon explained what happened to him 'offscreen of course' and she accepted it or at least tried to understand it.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Shimmergloom

[Brn2bwild]

12 minutes ago, britesongs said:

He was like that when they were reunited initially. It seemed like he was looking through her, and he didn't even reach to hug her, just sat there blankly. Meera's one shot showed more expression than Bran's. And I don't care how many visions of history or whatever are flying around in your brain. You see your sister, who left several years ago WHILE YOU WERE STILL IN A COMA, and you barely register her presence? I'm sorry. There HAS to be a bigger reaction. His behavior and mannerisms feel very put-on, and whether it's purposeful characterization or just crap acting, it doesn't work. IMO, at least.

I'm slightly more tolerant of his behavior the scene at the heart tree, but if he spent the time actually explaining the situation instead of just saying it's hard to explain, he'd probably make some progress. I have no patience for him.

I'm just hoping he remembers he's still human (for now) before the end of the season.  I could see this moment from Arya:

ARYA: Really, you can see everything?  Past and future?  Can you see this??  *whacks him on the head*

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I agree. The showrunners are right to pare down the story to the pivotal characters so that the story is compelling as it comes to an end. It is because Martin "overwrote" his story that he is unable to finish them without help. He trapped himself with too many characters and too many stories trying to extend the overarching story and I suspect to out-Tolkien Tolkien although he will never admit this. 

That's why I stopped reading the books. Reading them was a chore, and watching the show is so much more enjoyable. I don't think Martin will ever finish the books.

[Bannon]

As much as it appears that Jamie has gotten the better of Tyrion with regard to strategy (due to more Euron nonsense; there has to be some hand waving as to why three dragons aren't flying escort for the fleet transporting the Unsullied), the fact is Dany's plan should always had been to have the Dothraki catch the bulk of the Lannister forces in the open, and then let the far superior horseman do what far superior horseman do in a battle of maneuver, which is cut the inferior horseman to pieces. The best real world equivalent to tje Dorthraki, it seems to me, is the Commanche nation of the North American plains. Until repeating firearms were developed in the mid 19th century, no opposing force, including the U.S. Army , could stand up to the Commanche in open battle, because the Commanche were just too fast. The Lannister army is now in the open, slowed down by pulling wagons of loot back to KIngs Landing. They are exposed to an opposing army uniquely equipped to exploit the Lannister army's weakness. Tyrion may have lucked into it, but Jamie's forces have likely reached their high water mark.

[anamika]

45 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

I don't think that's why they killed him.  They killed Jon cause he made peace with the Wildlings and they could not let millennia of hatred go.

He made peace with the Wildlings to counter the threat of the WW. The NW for some reason thought that the Wildlings were a bigger threat than the WW, indicating that they really did not understand the gravity of the situation.

45 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

But I guess you could say, why wasn't Jon or anyone else handling that?  He was concentrated on the war and not the day to day details.  And I mean that basic shit is just as important as gathering an army. 

He does in the books. This is typical of how the show gives away Jon's book plots to Sansa to make her relevant on the show.  But I am sure as king, Jon would have kept an eye on the food stores or delegated someone to look into it.  Hell, that's why he left Sansa in charge - to take care of those things. Or are you suggesting that no one in WF though about the food stores until Sansa brought it up?

BTW, I must have missed it, but was there any mention of bringing up food from the Vale to the North? The Vale's food stores are a big plot point in the books.

45 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

I don't think anyone knows what Littlefinger did in far of betraying Ned, getting Jon Arryn killed, etc.  Now if Sansa does trust him and believes he didn't know about Ramsay that would be stupid.  But I think from Sansa's quips, she doesn't trust him.  She just knows they need him for now, since from what we've been shown, Robin trusts him and we have to offscreen accept that if she sends Littlefinger away, he can get Robin to order the Vale troops to leave too.

Sansa knows that LF sided against Ned in KL which led to his imprisonment and death. She knows that he framed Tyrion and herself for Joffrey's murder. Knows that he murdered Lysa Arryn and manipulated his way to becoming Lord Protector of the Vale. She could easily convict him of treason and execute him with Royce's help.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[Bill819]

I am over the moon. I thought Emilia and Kit both did really good work here. Their chemistry was great. They did not disappoint. I think they both played the scenes as they should. They both showed their determination and insecurities in very different ways. She definitely started to warm up to him by the end of their last scene. You can tell that he hates this KOTN business. I don't see her as any more entitled  than any of the previous five kings or Tywin. Really good scenes and well played by both. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Bill819

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, rozen said:

 

I like Euron's actor because he makes me think he knows it's all bullshit and would happily murder every non-Ironborn in a heartbeat. There better be some magic to his fleets though, because these ninja ships are becoming ridiculous and making everyone look like an idiot. Fast, blackened ships that are more adept at open sea warfare getting the jump on a smaller fleet at night? Fine. Same ships somehow creeping up on a fleet and destroying it outright in broad daylight? Y'all, what? 

 

Yeah, they really got themselves in a bind here with the showrunning, which resulted in severely underwriting Euron's participation in the story, given how central his actions are to the  episodes left. You really need to turn the ol' logic-o-meter off whenever Euron shows up.

 

 

12 minutes ago, rozen said:

[Shimmergloom]

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa knows that LF sided against Ned in KL which led to his imprisonment and death. She knows that he framed Tyrion and herself for Joffrey's murder. Knows that he murdered Lysa Arryn and manipulated his way to becoming Lord Protector of the Vale. She could easily convict him of treason and execute him with Royce's help.

She doesn't know about Ned.  No one seems to know that.  Cause if Sansa knew, there's no reason that Jon wouldn't know.  And then Littlefinger would be dead.

 

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

He does in the books. This is typical of how the show gives away Jon's book plots to Sansa to make her relevant on the show.  But I am sure as King, Jon would have kept an eye on the food stores or delegated someone to look into it.  Hell, that's why he left Sansa in charge - to take care of those things. Or are you suggesting that no one in WF though about the food stores until Sansa brought it up?

BTW, I must have missed it, but was there any mention of bringing up food from the Vale to the North?

In the books Jon isn't at Winterfell yet, so we can't in this case say Jon plots are given to Sansa.  Since in the books she knows about how important food stores are anyway.  And people may have thought about the food stores, since they have squirreled away a years worth of food.  But they don't seem to have thought of consolidating food from all the Keeps at Winterfell.  Which is what she came up with.

[Raachel2008]

37 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Whats the quote seeing is believing? I just can't accept that Sansa wouldn't have some sort of conversation or general freak out about her half brother being a fire wight. He wasn't brought back by the Old Gods but by a priestess of a foreign religion. That's not something you just go okay and make a joke about. She had more of a reaction to peeping Bran than that.

But Bran reminded her of what is probably the worst moment of her life. Why would anyone care about Jon being a fire wight if he is alive and brooding like always? 

31 minutes ago, rozen said:

Also, Sansa was trained to be a great lady and run a Queen's household, so yea, she's got a pretty awesome skillset in this particular area. Catelyn surely drilled her for years like any soldier.

And Catelyn  training included knowing about armors? 

18 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa knows that LF sided against Ned in KL which led to his imprisonment and death. She knows that he framed Tyrion and herself for Joffrey's murder. Knows that he murdered Lysa Arryn and manipulated his way to becoming Lord Protector of the Vale. She could easily convict him of treason and execute him with Royce's help.

LF being alive is too absurd even in the context of the show. He should have died two episodes ago. He has no purpose, there is NOTHING he tells Sansa that she doesn't already know or would have learned by herself. During his little speech tonight, I felt like watching  one of those vague leadership seminars where people makes tons of money for saying things that have no use in real life.

 

3 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Has Davos found another young woman to protect or was he making a play?

You mean Misandei? I think he was just trying to make small talk and learn a bit more about Danaery's people.

 

4 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I don't know what it is, but the scenes between Danaerys and Jon felt a bit flat for me but I thought the dialogue (at least Jon's part) was amazing.

The Dany/Jon scene was better than I was expecting, dialogue-wise, but I understand why so many people feel it felt flat because it was uneven and let's face it, Emilia and Kit are from being the best actors in this show. There was a dissonation between the way Dany and Jon asserted themselves, partly because of who they are, their tempers, and partly because one of the points of that scene was stress how powerful Dany is, how 'superior' she is to Jon, how she is the last Targaryen and she has the right blah blah. What I mean is: If anyone had any doubts about Jon having a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany, the emphasys on Dany's right to the IT pretty much spoiled that he does in fact has a better claim. That was 101 TV Writing, and it wasn't very subtle.

Boy, it will be the shock of Dany's life to learn that she is not the last Targaryen  and who is the other dragon alive.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Alapaki]

For all of his pretending to be a King/Queen-maker, Varys' One Job, his primary value-added, is supposedly his intelligence network.

And yet, since returning to Westeros, he's failed to:

1) learn that an Ironborn Armada had visited Kings Landing and left to sail the Narrow Sea;

2) recognize the defection of most if not all of the Tyrell bannermen; and

3) discover the movement of the majority of the Lannister Army from Casterly Rock to the Reach.

[jeansheridan]

3 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Can I just say how much I absolutely LOVE Davos, he is so sincere in his loyalty and admiration of Jon! I had to rewind his speech to Danaerys. 

Davos does the best PR. He spoke well for Stannis too. He is such an overtly good man it is just a pleasure to have him in the room.

I did love seeing Jaime backed by Bronn, Tarly and Dickon. Plus Nikolas wears armor so well. Loved that tracking shot of him going to Olenna. He joked that staying on the horse was his biggest challenge this season. 

Also Jaime is always gracious in victory. He would have never tortured Olenna. Plus bad optics. Tarly is already squeamish about betraying her. No need to defile her.

[Minneapple]

Upon rewatch:

I liked the Jon/Tyrion and Dany/Tyrion scenes much better than the Jon/Dany scenes. I don't know if it's Emilia's acting or Dany's lines, but Dany comes off like a spoilt brat in her scenes with Jon. "I'M A TARGARYEN PRINCESS GIVE ME THE THRONE NOW!" She comes off better in her scenes with Tyrion, saner and calmer and taking herself less seriously.

I know people are irked by Bran bringing up *that* memory for Sansa, and yes, it was creepy and weird but on the other hand, it shows the show hasn't just brushed it off. She's still affected by being raped, which yeah. Just like Jon *should be* affected by, you know, dying.

Baelish remains creepy. I remain convinced that I need a shower every time he talks.

Jaime sounds like an idiot singing Cersei's praises. God, how did the showrunners get from the book version of Jaime to this version?

Archmaester: How did you know how to save this man?

Sam: I read the book and followed the instructions.

Hah! I want Sam's line on a coffee mug for my desk at work. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Minneapple

[anamika]

24 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

She doesn't know about Ned.  No one seems to know that.  Cause if Sansa knew, there's no reason that Jon wouldn't know.  And then Littlefinger would be dead.

Sansa knows that LF sided with the Lannisters against the Ned in KL. She knows this. She knows that LF sided with the enemy against her father and he was subsequently imprisoned and executed. For someone who was eager to punish children for their fathers siding with the enemy against them, why is she not eager to do the same to LF?

Jon does not know any of this because Sansa does not tell him anything. She did not tell him about where she got the information about the Blackfish. She did not tell him about the Vale army. Has she told him about Lysa? All she told him is that LF is untrustworthy.

24 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

In the books Jon isn't at Winterfell yet, so we can't in this case say Jon plots are given to Sansa.  Since in the books she knows about how important food stores are anyway.  And people may have thought about the food stores, since they have squirreled away a years worth of food.  But they don't seem to have thought of consolidating food from all the Keeps at Winterfell.  Which is what she came up with.

Jon has an entire chapter managing food stores at the Wall in the last book. He manages food stores, sets up people training to fight, delegates some people for cooking, stitching, negotiates with the Iron Bank for more food and money, mans the wall with Wildlings, experiments on wights to study them - in essence he prepares the wall for a white walker invasion. So it's logical to assume that show Jon will also be doing this or delegating someone to do this - when he left Sansa in charge he expects her to do these things. What I am saying is that book Jon does worry about food stores. A lot. On the show they have Sansa doing it - does not mean that she is the first genius to think about food storage or that Jon has ignored the food situation.

What Sansa should be talking about is the Vale food stores. That's the whole point of the Vale - their food and their army. She should be asking them to share their food since she is in cahoots with LF.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

So Dany just became a massive underdog. No Dornish (maybe?), no Tyrell army, Unsullied trapped and the dragons aren't a factor as long as tyrion treats dany like a china doll. Does he not know about her fire proof skin? Because if not, now would be the time to set Tyrion straight and tell him these things. Also get a real damn general. Why the hell did you think it was a good time to put a novice in that role? 

Jon why the hell did Tyrion have to pull that dragon glass request out of you? Wasn't that your whole reason for going there in the first place? I know Davos is there but work on your diplomacy skills.

[jeansheridan]

Oh and because I am human, Kit looked wonderful on a windy cliff with his cloak and manbun. He is one of the few people who can pull off that hair. I only warmed to him during his season with Stannis and Hardhome but now I find him quite appealing. 

[egnever]

Dany: Your ancestors pledged allegiance to my ancestors...

Jon: But your father...

Dany: Who cares what my father did.

 

 

Sam: I read the book and followed the instructions.

Sam needs to assemble all my Ikea furniture.

[jeansheridan]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Does he not know about her fire proof skin? Because if not, now would be the time to set Tyrion straight and tell him these things.

She does not have arrow proof skin however which was Missendra's point. The dragons need her instructions and they need to get pretty close to light things on fire. I agree they can't risk her flying over the ocean on her own.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, jeansheridan said:

She does not have arrow proof skin however which was Missendra's point. The dragons need her instructions and they need to get pretty close to light things on fire. I agree they can't risk her flying over the ocean on her own.

As of right now, they have dothraki and unusable dragons, something has to be done.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Oscirus

[MadMouse]

26 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

But Bran reminded her of what is probably the worst moment of her life. Why would anyone care about Jon being a fire wight if he is alive and brooding like always? 

Really? You don't see how she or anyone else might care that her brother has been resurrected? I know people like to bring up her rape as the worst thing ever but being gutted by your own men and brought back to life is pretty much the pinnacle of WTF moments someone can go through. And if its no big deal why does she want to know more about Bran's power? Of course she'll just shrug her shoulders when Arya shows up face changing right?

[Raachel2008]

25 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Davos does the best PR. He spoke well for Stannis too. He is such an overtly good man it is just a pleasure to have him in the room.

I love him too, and Davos the person I want to live the most. 

 

23 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I liked the Jon/Tyrion and Dany/Tyrion scenes much better than the Jon/Dany scenes. I don't know if it's Emilia's acting or Dany's lines, but Dany comes off like a spoilt brat in her scenes with Jon. "I'M A TARGARYEN PRINCESS GIVE ME THE THRONE NOW!" She comes off better in her scenes with Tyrion, saner and calmer and taking herself less seriously.

I think it was on purpose, the lines and the acting, so the action could build up to that speech about being born in Dragstone, blah blah, I was born to rule the seven kingdoms, last Targaryen while the other Targaryen was right there. It was all about justaposing Dany and Jon, and I'm not sure it did any favors to both of them.

Speaking about her little speech, I have to wonder when someone will remember that for every time Dany says she was raped by Drogo (which she was) there were at least four times more she said she loved him, and that this was actually on screen. It is driving me nuts, either they write Dany saying something like 'I was young and I didn't know better' or they just stop.

 

12 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

So Dany just became a massive underdog. No Dornish (maybe?), no Tyrell army, Unsullied trapped and the dragons aren't a factor as long as tyrion treats dany like a china doll.

Dany is far from being an underdog. She has her dragons, and they can use them if she wants, and she has the Dothraki, who are feared by everybody everywhere. Tyrion is not treating Dany like a china doll, he is thinking about the people who will die once those dragons are put to use.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Raachel2008

[VCRTracking]

I'll miss Lady Olenna but she went out like a boss.

Euron is such a pro wrestling "heel", I love it.

"I tried!" Oh Theon.

Ellaria completely deserved it but I did feel just a tiny bit sorry for the daughter crying.

Tyrion and Jon's bromance is still awesome.

Melisandre saying she "brought fire and ice together" had to be a nod to the shippers.

Ser Davos. Best hypeman ever.

I liked Jon and Dany's meeting. His stubbornness going against her pride.  I wish people would believe him about the damn Whitewalkers. They didn't build that damn wall to just keep out fucking Wildlings.

Stark reunions always make me cry even if Bran seems to be dead inside.  And damn Bran could you not creep out your sister and remind her of the night she was raped? Was he going to tell Jon right away who his parents are?

[jeansheridan]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

As of right now, they have dothraki and unusable dragons, something has to be done.

Good point.  So does she have any ships to get her Dothroki from the island to the shore? Davos could help her. He knows smugglers.

What should Greyworm do? I want him to surprise everyone and be a proper general. But I don't know how they fight their way across hostile territory. They can't blend in. They have no horses. It will be a slog. I can see Dany riding to rescue them. Her dragons could burn a path through for them to march.

Davos and Jorah may become her best advisors but Davos has never won anything other than victory over the wildings. And Jorah was just a regular knight, right? I guess he fought during Robert's Rebellion.

I assume Dorne still has any army. Would they come to rescue their queen? Separately from Dany. They say Starks shouldn't go south.  How about Dornishmen going North?

[Raachel2008]

7 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Really? You don't see how she or anyone else might care that her brother has been resurrected? I know people like to bring up her rape as the worst thing ever but being gutted by your own men and brought back to life is pretty much the pinnacle of WTF moments someone can go through. And if its no big deal why does she want to know more about Bran's power? Of course she'll just shrug her shoulders when Arya shows up face changing right?

Nobody has even seen a wight, but Jon. What they know - what Jon himself knows - is that the  Others can make the dead come back as wights, and, in the show, what Jon has seen is people killed but the others reanimated as wights . That is not what happened to Jon; he was killed by his men and ressurrect by a priestress.

I think the situation with Bran is different,  Sansa wants to know how it works, because right know she doesn't,, while she knows what happened to Jon. As for Arya, it depends on what she learns, I guess.

I don't like to compare tragedies, but for Sansa that was the worst moment of her life. Jon, Bran, Cersei, Dany, Arya, Jamie, etc have their own worst moments to carry. 

[jeansheridan]

Oh, and hello Mycroft. I miss your umbrella.

[GreyBunny]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

I know this season is short and they need to move things quickly, but would it have hurt to have it explained that Jorah needed to be quarantined for a few days or something like that?

It was implied.  When Ebrose was poking him Jorah said it didn't hurt as badly as last time, it looks like his cuts have had some time to heal, and Ebrose declared him no longer infectious.  Post-scraped Jorah has been there a while.

[Shimmergloom]

42 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa knows that LF sided with the Lannisters against the Ned in KL. She knows this. She knows that LF sided with the enemy against her father and he was subsequently imprisoned and executed. For someone who was eager to punish children for their fathers siding with the enemy against them, why is she not eager to do the same to LF?

Point to me where in the show it is ever said that She knows LF betrayed Ned.  I have no memory of it and a google search reveals no mention of it and instead numerous people saying she doesn't know or that she should know, but nothing saying she does know.  And everyone who was in the throne room is dead except Littlefinger, Cersei and the Hound(who is on his way up north).

[anamika]

21 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

Point to me where in the show it is ever said that She knows LF betrayed Ned.

So in all that time she spend in KL,  Sansa did not see LF walking around being chummy with the Lannisters? What does it matter if she does not know that LF lied to Ned and betrayed him. He sided with Joffrey against Ned. In the war between the Starks and the Lannisters, LF sided with the Lannisters against the Starks.  That's why he was still there four seasons later, able to get her out of KL. Are you implying that Sansa does not care that LF supported the Lannisters over her family in the war of the 5 kings?

What about that time LF killed her aunt? Or that time, he framed her and Tyrion for Joffrey's murder? Or, handing her over to the Boltons to gain control of the North? Or him manipulating her cousin in the Vale for his advancement?  Does Sansa know about these things?

LF threatened to execute Royce last season. Royce has no liking for LF. It should be easy enough for Sansa to make public LF's crimes and have him executed. Then send word to SweetRobin that LF met with an unfortunate end. What is even the point of LF anymore?  Unless Sansa thinks he is useful and wants his help and advice.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[Miles]

A very weakened lanister army handily defeating high gardens army off screen, who are protecting a fortified castle on a mountain? Let me put on my scepticals. I get some of their bannermen betrayed the Tyrels, but still...

Still Olena's end was pretty badass.

I mean Cercei is evil and all, but during her speach to Ellaria Sand I thought "that's fair".

Edited July 31, 2017 by Miles

[Miles]

7 hours ago, screamin said:

Only if he did it in front of a weirwood tree...

That's only a book thing. The tower of joy didn't happen in front of a weirwood tree and Bran saw that.

2 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

She does not have arrow proof skin however which was Missendra's point. The dragons need her instructions and they need to get pretty close to light things on fire. I agree they can't risk her flying over the ocean on her own.

Eh, I didn't quite buy that one either. Just stick her in very thick armor with very narrow eye slids. She doesn't even have to be able to move much. Could she still be hit with an arrown at that point? Sure, but the likelyhood is about 0.00000000000000000000001%. She'll have to use the dragons eventually. Otherwise she won't win. Egon did and he and his sisters came out fine.

I know HBO likes her looking sexy on her dragons, but there is literally no in-universe explaination  for this.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Miles

[patchwork]

Dany and Jon always felt too fairytale for me to get into as a pairing before but I was willing to be convinced unfortunately having now seen them together romance wise for me they lack spark. I did like their last scene, after Tyrion convinced them both to get over themselves, where they were just two good people with different aims trying to find some middle ground.

Littlefinger gave Sansa some good advice, of course you can't plan for everything but having a contingency plan for the stuff you are aware of is good leadership. The part about everyone being your enemy she should forget. I think the idea behind the armour is that Royce's man was making summer/Vale armour and Sansa was pointing out what any northerner could.

The reunion felt cold, it was filmed in many ways like her reunion with Jon, loved that her mask slipped before she hugged him, but as Bran is now a tree man he couldn't respond to her as Brandon Stark only as the Three Eyed Raven. Proving his powers by bringing up one of the worst nights of her life was low, no wonder she hurried away, that's now two brothers who were witness to her horrific wedding night.

I'm curious if Arya is still on her way to Winterfell, her "that's not you" could also mean she's reconsidered and the Lady Stoneheart plot is back on.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Many people think Jamie loves Brienne, I've always thought that what he saw in Brienne was the man he could have been had his life been very differently. For me it has always been clear that Cersei is the love of his life, has always been. If anyone has any doubts about that, just rewacth their scene in bed, the way he looks at her after everything she has done. Nikolaj Coster Waldau did an awesome job too, though I don't feel sorry for Jamie at all.

I can't with Euron, I just can't. I know he adds some bizarre humor to the show, but he is like an adrenaline junkie on steroids. I feel like we should fear him and sure he is cruel and merciless, but he lacks the coldness or the poweress of Twyin and Ramsay or even the High Sparrow.

Jaime was looking at Cersei here the way he looked at Brienne in S7. I think he loves them both, but he's unaware of what he feels for Brienne and is prisoner of his toxic relationship with Cersei. She's his twin, literally his other half, and he seems to believe he's doom to go down with her. 

Euron is so out of place. I'm surprised that the  finger line, which was as lame as the infamous "bad pussy" one, isn't raising more eyerolls. Maybe I shouldn't be, since it's a male character who uttered the crass dialogue?

3 hours ago, rozen said:

Dany feels very brittle and unsure this episode, makes her more human and realistic. This her first major interaction with a major lord in Westeros, ofc she wants to to go smoothly and establish her dominance. Yea, she's had leaders sneer in her face before, but she knows she literally had to burn every goddamn thing to the ground to get said leaders to give up. She doesn't want to do that to her homeland, so yea, she wants everyone to stfu and bend the knee so she can move past that part of her reign.

I felt the same. Dany is putting on an act, I think the stilted attitude was good acting from Emilia Clarke's part. She thinks she has to appear strong and regal to the Westerosi, and she hides "Dany". She was thawing a little in her later scene with Jon. I really loved how she looked at him leaving. Like Varys, she has eyes and she uses them...although Jon's sincerity seemed to touch her.

Davos has eyes, too.  It seemed to me that someone got a little crush on Missandei. Who wouldn't?

Was I the only one who grumbled "too late" when Varys entered the room after Dany mentioned Ned going along with Robert's sending assassins to kill her? I would have loved to see Conleth Hill's reaction, and Varys calculating whether he should speak or not at that moment. I hope it will come up at another time. It won't serve Ned, but I loved that moment when he told Robert off and I would like for one of his good deeds to be known and acknowledged by the beneficiary.

[Shimmergloom]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

So in all that time she spend in KL,  Sansa did not see LF walking around being chummy with the Lannisters? What does it matter if she does not know that LF lied to Ned and betrayed him. He sided with Joffrey against Ned. In the war between the Starks and the Lannisters, LF sided with the Lannisters against the Starks.  That's why he was still there four seasons later, able to get her out of KL. Are you implying that Sansa does not care that LF supported the Lannisters over her family in the war of the 5 kings?

What about that time LF killed her aunt? Or that time, he framed her and Tyrion for Joffrey's murder? Or, handing her over to the Boltons to gain control of the North? Or him manipulating her cousin in the Vale for his advancement?  Does Sansa know about these things?

LF threatened to execute Royce last season. Royce has no liking for LF. It should be easy enough for Sansa to make public LF's crimes and have him executed. Then send word to SweetRobin that LF met with an unfortunate end. What is even the point of LF anymore?  Unless Sansa thinks he is useful and wants his help and advice.

Knowing that LF was on the Lannister side isn't the same as her knowing that LF betrayed Ned.  Tyrion, the Hound and the Tyrells were all on the Lannister side too.  Should she kill the Hound as soon as he shows up north?

And her Aunt was trying to kill her and would have if LF hadn't stopped her.  I don't see how she cares about Lyssa dying.

And she may not blame LF for framing her, since he also helped her escape.

I have said that handing her over to Ramsay is the big deal.  He claims he didn't know how Ramsay was.  I think she'd be dumb to believe him.  But based on how she treats LF now, I don't think she believes him. But also, as I said, she has to know that LF still have Robin wrapped around his finger, so if she dismisses LF, then Robin can order the Vale lords to leave, which she doesn't want.  So she is tolerating him for now. 

Based on how LF reacted to the news that Maester Luwin kept records, maybe she finds out actual evidence against him.  I struggle to know what Maester Luwin could have.  However the Maester with the Boltons could have kept records as well, that do incriminate LF.

[BooBear]

8 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Bran and Sansa meeting made me tear up, but Bran seemed so cold to me and why did he bring up Sansa's wedding day/night. He must have know she was traumatized, Sansa looked so happy to be speaking with him and he just pulled that out. He also mentioned that he needed to speak to Jon, I assume this has to do with Jon's parentage. 

This was odd and disappointing to me as well. He can take 3 minutes off from warging. I don't remember him being so cold last year and I don't like it.  Of all the ways he was to prove his power that was a massive fail.  I hope that improves or it feels like Bran is dead too.  What about Meera? Oh thanks sweety for risking your life and traveling all over the world dragging me along but, by now!  Huh? 

Otherwise I thought it was fine. I don't think Jon and Dany are supposed to have chemistry right now. They are mistrustful of each other.  I thought their meeting was appropriately funny and strained as I would imagine.  I expect to see softening on both sides.  I was glad to have the whiny little Jon Snow that we have seen in the first 6 years... brooding. That was funny. Getting tired of his "I know everything" Snow.

I can't figure out if the North knows Jon died and he doesn't want that info getting around or if they don't. He clearly didn't want Dany to know.  I would assume the North has to know otherwise he would have broken his vow to the Knights Watch.

I am not upset with the planning on Dany's end. She has lost very little men.  Realistically the Lannisters had to take a hit taking in high garden. That was their risk.  I can't feel bad for Ellaria either.  I don't like the idea that Dany always falls back to the dragons.   But I suppose she should have used them on Euron and will now see the error of her ways.  I also feel for dramatic purposes they are having Dany lose so it will seem like Cerci has a chance.  I also feel like Dany still has the dorneish forces. Surely they have ships? Dany has dorne, the north, three dragons, the unsullied, the dothraki, and various support in the iron islands, and highgarden. Cerci can't realistically hope to win.  

What I hope is that it is sinking in on Jamie, all their children died horrible deaths because of the sins of their parents (Cerci).  But if they don't redeem him soon, I will have to give up on him. I cannot see how he is such a willing partner in all of this unless he truly doesn't particularly want to live any longer. 

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

And yet, it's not that simple. Dany is a person who's also on a vision quest about her birth right. I feel like Jon has wisdom about some things she doesn't--mainly its about being humble, shedding the titles that aren't really breaking the wheel, to use her terminology, or doing anything for the common people. What does the fact that she was BORN to rule, do for them? The show runners are obviously declaring that these trappings are ridiculous by contrasting their introductions in the throne room. What will Jon teach her, about herself?

Being humble isn't wisdom and certainly doesn't accomplish anything. I don't see that Jon has anything to teach Daenerys anything. If anything, Daenerys can teach him about the struggles of ruling a large kingdom and the difficulties of leading "the people" who have suffered injustice from the nobles. Jon's greatest asset is that he knows about the white walkers and how to kill them. 

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Very cute show.  Jon - "I am not a Stark."  Then he gets buzzed by a dragon.

Thank you Diana Rigg for the brilliant portrayal of Oleanna.  What a fantastic way to end the show.  Oleanna taking the poison with no fuss, then basically apologizing that she didn't know how gruesome the poison she gave to Joffrey would be. 

It is impossible for me to be on Cersei's side on anything, but Mother Sand Snake had this one coming to her.  Oberyn chose to fight and then got arrogant when he had The Mountain on the ground.  Then Ellaria kills Marcella making a mockery of Oberyn's claim that they do not kill girls in Dorne.  Seeing Ellaria and her child in chains straining to touch each other but couldn't was a nice touch on Cersei's part. As she wasn't able to hold Marcella before she died.

Great acting from all three actresses in the Ellaria/Cersei/Tyene scene, in my opinion. Really good scene.

Jon vs. Dany had some very funny moments.

Missandei: *grandly announces Dany's titles*

Jon: *looks at Davos expectantly*

Davos: ...This is Jon Snow....He's King in the North.

Classic.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Eyes High

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Shimmergloom said:

She doesn't know about Ned.  No one seems to know that.  Cause if Sansa knew, there's no reason that Jon wouldn't know.  And then Littlefinger would be dead.

 

There was no reason that Sansa didn't tell Jon about LF's offer to send help from the Vale, nor that she did in fact ask him to. And yet, that was how things played out.

Which is not to say that Sansa does or doesn't know about LF betraying of Ned. (Although if I had to guess, I'd say it seems improbable that after spending as much time as she did with Joffrey and Ramsay, Cersei and the Hound, as well as the rest of the King's Landing crew that none of them detailed how Ned came to his doom, or that LF didn't tell her some version with half-truths to justify what he'd done.)

It's more that -- whether it's a result of her PTSD or LF's counseling or what -- Sansa doesn't share all the information she should. She has been threatened and humiliated into keeping her cards close to her chest, and only with causing the death of her primary tormentor has she been able/willing to speak up for herself more.

[Spartan Girl]

I know a lot of people were ruffled by Dany's prideful bravado to Jon, but Jon held his ground pretty well. And Dany is always intrigued by people that don't automatically fawn over her, as was the case with Tyrion and Varys.

Sure didn't get off on the right foot. And anyone that has seen any show ever knows where that will lead. Related or not, they're gonna wind up in bed.

[Ariah]

Euron keep reminding me of a cross between Captain Boomerang from Suicide Squad movie and young Sabretooth.

I like the fact that Dany is losing. She's like a warrior with a lot of powerful weapons that she keep using the wrong way. Also, I was waiting for someone to point out to her that it's cute that the Dorthraki crossed the sea for her, but they're used to warmer climate and it's winter out here. Those guys and their horses will be dying of pneumonia soon.

Dany and Jon did not disappoint in their script-fueled chemistry. I knew I was watching the beginning of mutual fascination and acceptance, that will lead to a fiery romance. (In other words - the Mother of Cliches)

I understand people being frustrated with the show Jamie (my fav character from the novels by far) but I also acknowledge this Jamie is in a totally different spot that the book one: his Cersei remained saner for a longer period of time, he didn't learn about all her romances and he's getting some wins. In each episode he's pulling further away from his sister, but keeps turning back. This time Cersei simply f*cked the idea out of him. I do appreciate they keep showing him as stepping away from unnecessary cruelty, as opposite to Cersei.

Finally: the Westerosi portals strike again! Some characters have the ability to bilocate and/or travel faster than light.

[Macbeth]

8 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Varys + death = does not compute.

Indira Varma was phenomenal. Ellaria paid the price for killing an innocent but unlike against Dirty Old Grand Pope, I wasn't rooting for Cersei in the least. I even cheered when Ellaria spit at her and the Mountain.

 

Not at all happy that this is the 2nd week in a row that Varys potential end was mentioned.  He is definitely one of my favorite characters. 

That scene between Ellaria and Cersei - both Indira and Lena completely killed it.  This scene and Oleanna's were completely awesome.  I am not worthy.

[Haleth]

My expectations are low for both Emilia Clark and Kit Harrington so I wasn't disappointed with their scenes.  I did think the dialog was good, with Jon being somewhat snarky and unwilling to bend knee, and urging Dany to think of the bigger picture.  (You have dragons yet are unwilling to believe in the NK?)  As interesting to me was how Davos reacted to everything.  I love his quiet pragmatism.  Dany could use his counsel.

Aside from so many people not believing in the walkers, everyone still has faith that the Wall will hold them.  It's inconceivable to them that the Wall won't stand.

Olenna went out like a pro.  It was kind of Jaime to hand her the poison instead of imprisoning her.  I was so afraid though that it was the purple poison (in the flagon with the dragon, hee!) and that somehow she would end up clawing her neck as Joff did.  I was afraid somehow Cersei knew and meted her justice the same way she did to Ellaria.  Speaking of, as much as I can't stand Cersei or the fact she keeps winning, I thought killing the Sand Snake in exactly the same way Ellaria killed Myrcella was poetic justice.  And leaving her to rot.  I have zero sympathy for Ellaria.  You reap what you sow, babe.

The meeting between Sansa and Bran was touching and I may have gotten misty.  How soon before he lets on that he knows Jon's real parentage?  And speaking of that, certainly that pile of scrolls that Sam has to rewrite will contain information about Jon's birth, confirming what Bran tells people.  

9 hours ago, MadMouse said:

I know we're only three episodes in but this season feels super rushed. It seems like they're just trying to burn through so many plots without any thought to get the inevitable Jon and Dany versus the Walkers. Nothing feels well thought out at this point just a race to the finish.

I sooooo agree!  But at least the slash and burn of secondary characters and storylines will let us get to an end.

I was thinking about how most of the actors (aside from the leads) have only one or two lines per episode.  It must have made for some very looooong shooting days.  

That was some pretty bad CGI during the siege of Casterly Rock.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Haleth

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, Haleth said:

My expectations are low for both Emilia Clark and Kit Harrington so I wasn't disappointed with their scenes.  I did think the dialog was good, with Jon being somewhat snarky

Jon being salty and snarky was everything. That's Book Jon right there.