S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[Tikichick]

24 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

I have to say Euron won me over this episode, with his entire exchange with Jaime.

I loved that he was taunting Jaime with his desire to compare notes on what would please Cersei in bed.  After the "Does she like a finger in the bum" comment it looked like Jaime was going to kill him.  But Euron diffused the situation with "sh. sh. sh... We'll talk later."

The look on Jaime's face with priceless.

Loras is laughing in the afterlife.  Jaime gave him such a hard time,  He was a complete douche to a guy who didn't want to marry Cersei in anyway.  Was being forced to.  And he was gay.  So unless Tywin was in the bedroom with a sword threatening them death if they did not copulate - sex was never going to happen.

The two actors are playing this to the nth degree.  You could feel the energy in the throne room between them when they simply looked at one another.

I can't get into the Euron storyline because it's done in such broad brushstrokes it plays in much the same way they destroyed the Sand Snakes in the show universe. 

[SeanC]

11 hours ago, Francie said:

7.   "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Targaryen .... Protector of the Seven Kingdoms ...." Hold up.  She's done nothing but land on a volcanic rock island, sent a bunch of trained warriors to sack a castle, and is sitting on a throne. What the fuck is she doing saying she's protected anything in the Seven Kingdoms? Talk about somebody putting something they never did on their resume. 

6. More on that point .. "You stand in the presence of Daenerys Targaryen ... Protector of the Seven Kingdoms..." Jon: Can I have the dragonglass to protect the Seven Kingdoms from an invading force? Dany's first response:  No.  FU, Miss "Protector." Protector of your Entitlement, maybe.

Protector of the Realm is one of the titles of the monarch.

[WebosFritos]

On 3/8/2017 at 2:43 PM, Macbeth said:

Tyrion didn't expect Jon to bend the knee.  That's why his message to Jon requesting his presence didn't include the order that he would need to bend the knee as Dany had requested.  Tyrion knew that if that was in the message Jon wouldn't come. 

He knew enough about Jon that he could foresee that he could become an ally.  He just wanted to get Dany to meet Jon. He cautioned both of him.  He told Jon he can't expect troops to assist him based on one meeting, and he told Dany that they are courting Jon with the dragon glass to become another ally.

 

On 3/8/2017 at 2:41 PM, GrailKing said:

By the wording of the letter he sent Jon, I'm sure Tyrion wouldn't expect Jon to bend the knee; and after the small banter about Sansa and seeing Davos, I'm also sure he feels Jon has competent advisers.

I thought Peter Dinklage played it like Tyrion was taken aback by Jon's refusal to kneel. Maybe he was just surprised by Jon's anger and stubbornness  (hello, has he met a Stark before?) but how else could the meeting end after the way Dany had antagonized him. I definitely think that their second meeting was a lot more civil and productive.

On 3/8/2017 at 3:10 PM, doram said:

That's on the writing not Dany. She and Tyrion made no reference to their conversation with Melisandre at any point during the episode, both in the 'throne room' with Jon or Davos, or in any of the separate conversations they had with each other and Jon. Apparently the conversation with Melisandre about the Prince (ss) that was promised and What Jon Snow Saw took place in an alternate reality.

With every season this show moves from the books, the writing gets more and more abysmal. If they can't maintain basic continuity from one episode to another , I shudder to think of what a mess they'll make of the endgames.

I agree that the continuity between those two episodes was terrible. It begs the question of why the writers even bothered having Melisandre show up at Dragonstone. Team Dany could have learned about Jon becoming King another way. After season 6, I really wanted Melisandre to travel around Westeros preaching about Jon's resurrection and the Night King and his army. I'm really disappointed she won't be meeting the Brotherhood nor Arya.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, WebosFritos said:

I thought Peter Dinklage played it like Tyrion was taken aback by Jon's refusal to kneel. Maybe he was just surprised by Jon's anger and stubbornness  (hello, has he met a Stark before?) but how else could the meeting end after the way Dany had antagonized him. I definitely think that their second meeting was a lot more civil and productive.

Are you asking if he met Starks, or just being funny?

Becuase he's met all the Starks, well except maybe Arya.

[WebosFritos]

10 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Are you asking if he met Starks, or just being funny?

Becuase he's met all the Starks, well except maybe Arya.

I was trying to be funny, of course he's met the Starks. Tyrion is a good judge of character and yet he seemed surprised by Jon's reaction. Knowing what the Starks have been through, I thought he would be less confused by Jon's answer. He did ask Jon to bend the knee more than once, which puzzled me. But that's just my take on the scene.

[Blonde Gator]

1 minute ago, WebosFritos said:

I was trying to be funny, of course he's met the Starks. Tyrion is a good judge of character and yet he seemed surprised by Jon's reaction. Knowing what the Starks have been through, I thought he would be less confused by Jon's answer. He did ask Jon to bend the knee more than once, which puzzled me. But that's just my take on the scene.

Maybe he was just acting, for Dany, to cover up the fact that he didn't mention that "bend the knee" part in his Raven-gram to Jon.

[GrailKing]

11 minutes ago, WebosFritos said:

I was trying to be funny, of course he's met the Starks. Tyrion is a good judge of character and yet he seemed surprised by Jon's reaction. Knowing what the Starks have been through, I thought he would be less confused by Jon's answer. He did ask Jon to bend the knee more than once, which puzzled me. But that's just my take on the scene.

I think, he's also playing to Danerys, he knew Jon wouldn't bend the knee with his wording, even with the hint of "we have more than you do."

He's has to play both to get what everyone hopes is an alliance.

[crowceilidh]

I thought that Kit and Emilia did a very good job of looking believably related to each other.

[Oscirus]

Likely because tyrion was wondering  what Jon was there for.  He wrote asking  for an alliance and jon didn't even want that.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Oscirus

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

I thought that Kit and Emilia did a very good job of looking believably related to each other.

No idea if this is tongue and cheek commentary on the acting or not.

IMO Jon, Arya and Bran have Stark looks about them.  IMO, Jon's physical indication that he's Targaryen is Ghost.

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

No idea if this is tongue and cheek commentary on the acting or not.

IMO Jon, Arya and Bran have Stark looks about them.  IMO, Jon's physical indication that he's Targaryen is Ghost.

Time for me to start the conspiracy.  

Neither lyanna or rhaegar have black hair. However there is one family in westeros known for black haired babies.

 

#paternity test#

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Time for me to start the conspiracy.  

Neither lyanna or rhaegar have black hair. However there is one family in westeros known for black haired babies.

 

#paternity test#

Barratheons?  Martells?

Make it interesting and toss in Baelish and go real extreme and suggest Varys.

 

Interesting concept.  That would really throw quite a lot of speculation into chaos.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Tikichick

[Hecate7]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Time for me to start the conspiracy.  

Neither lyanna or rhaegar have black hair. However there is one family in westeros known for black haired babies.

 

#paternity test#

This makeup crew are just completely indifferent to hair color. The Lannister twins are no longer golden-haired, and neither is Tyrion. Shireen had blonde hair and she was Baratheon. Resemblance to Mark Addy, if intentional, was just to muddy the waters. There would have been absolutely no reason to conceal Robert's bastard from Robert--he had plenty of them.

[YaddaYadda]

I was disappointed with the looks of Selyse and Shireen. The books puts so much emphasis on the Florent ears, I was waiting for ears. Did not get ears.

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Well, I could have done without Euron. I know he's necessary to the story, but I hate how he's written and acted.

I have a lot of time for Pilou Asbaek because he was brilliant in Borgen.  Thus, instead of seeing this moustachio-twirling villain others see, I feel like he has read the books and done a decent job of trying to understand the character in all of his teflon successes.  Euron is an unseely villainous guy in the books.  He appears out of nowhere constantly and he loves the sound of his own voice, he has unshakeable faith in his own talents and a through enjoyment of scaring the crap out of other people.  Of course, once others pointed out the ott villainy, I can see it too, but it's not what I saw until coming here to read today.

[Mabinogia]

22 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

He appears out of nowhere constantly and he loves the sound of his own voice, he has unshakeable faith in his own talents and a through enjoyment of scaring the crap out of other people.

If that is what the actor is going for he is 100% nailing it! Seriously, that is the Euron I'm seeing on screen to a T. I am in the love to hate camp with Euron that I once was with Cercei. I used to find her contemptuous but enjoyable. Now I find her tedious. I enjoy watching Euron be an ass because the actor so fully embraces how campy Euron is. Euron is campy. As you say, he loves the sound of his own voice and pretty much thinks he's gods gift to the world. I do hate seeing Yara at his mercy though. I love Yara and that is not making me happy at all, seeing her in chains and victim to whatever he chooses to do to her.

[Blonde Gator]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

No idea if this is tongue and cheek commentary on the acting or not.

IMO Jon, Arya and Bran have Stark looks about them.  IMO, Jon's physical indication that he's Targaryen is Ghost.

I read that the actor who played Robb also auditioned for Jon Snow, but his look wasn't "moody" enough.  Kit's not the best actor in the world, but if the casting agent is looking for moody & brooding, he's got the monopoly on that!

Ned was pretty well cast, but they should have made his hair much darker (But Sean Bean!).  Book Stark kids...only Arya & Jon looked like Starks....Bran, Robb, Sansa, and Rickon are said to have favored the Tully's.  It annoys Catlyn Stark that Jon looks so much more like a Stark than four out of five of her own children.  And it's said that Arya very much looks and acts like Lyanna Stark.  100% Stark though and through.

[MrsR]

Dany now looks like Legolas' sister.

[Blonde Gator]

37 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

I have a lot of time for Pilou Asbaek because he was brilliant in Borgen.  Thus, instead of seeing this moustachio-twirling villain others see, I feel like he has read the books and done a decent job of trying to understand the character in all of his teflon successes.  Euron is an unseely villainous guy in the books.  He appears out of nowhere constantly and he loves the sound of his own voice, he has unshakeable faith in his own talents and a through enjoyment of scaring the crap out of other people.  Of course, once others pointed out the ott villainy, I can see it too, but it's not what I saw until coming here to read today.

I love Pilou Asbaek as Euron (who was cartoonish in his bad-assery in the books).  When I first saw his picture before last season, as Euron, I thought it was just a picture of a heavier Theon.  The family resemblance to Theon is uncanny, and Alfie Allen is such a great actor that the mere thought of Euron scares him to death.....that's exactly how Asbaek plays Euron, which works for me. 

[KarenTargaryen]

back to Dany and having a maester, when is Jon going to tell her that he had met and knew a Targaryen before, Maester Aemon Targaryen?

[Blonde Gator]

17 minutes ago, KarenTargaryen said:

back to Dany and having a maester, when is Jon going to tell her that he had met and knew a Targaryen before, Maester Aemon Targaryen?

Oh I hope you're right that we'll get to see that in the show.  It would be a great scene!

[YaddaYadda]

57 minutes ago, KarenTargaryen said:

back to Dany and having a maester, when is Jon going to tell her that he had met and knew a Targaryen before, Maester Aemon Targaryen?

Well we got two episodes of Sam acknowledging Jeor Mormont. I think the writers' room might have imploded if they had acknowledged another dead family member. It's not Maester Aemon isn't a good selling point and someone actually knew the last (acknowledged) family Dany had. She might have been more receptive.

I hope they don't forget about him. 

[Shimmergloom]

6 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Maybe he was just acting, for Dany, to cover up the fact that he didn't mention that "bend the knee" part in his Raven-gram to Jon.

I am thinking that "bending the knee" was sort of an understood thing and didn't need to be expressly in the note.  Like Dany didn't expect him to travel all that way to not pledge loyalty, but instead ask a favor.  All the northern lords, the vale lords and Sansa understood that was what was expected.  And I think Jon did as well, but he felt it was still necessary for him to go there to ask for the dragonglass and I guess hope she wouldn't be offended too much.

[arjumand]

15 hours ago, WebosFritos said:

I was trying to be funny, of course he's met the Starks. Tyrion is a good judge of character and yet he seemed surprised by Jon's reaction. Knowing what the Starks have been through, I thought he would be less confused by Jon's answer. He did ask Jon to bend the knee more than once, which puzzled me. But that's just my take on the scene.

 

15 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Maybe he was just acting, for Dany, to cover up the fact that he didn't mention that "bend the knee" part in his Raven-gram to Jon.

I hope he was acting, though it didn't seem like it. 

I think it was more that he left out the "bend the knee" on purpose, trusting that Jon could read between the lines and not come, because he knew that Jon was not the type to kneel. In fact, wasn't one of the first things he said to Jon that he never expected Jon to turn up?

Of course, Tyrion didn't know about the ice zombie apocalypse around the corner, and that Jon needs allies; winged, fire-breathing ones, to be specific. 

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Daenerys is a fake fantasy name with no real world equivalent, so you have to look it up. But John? Everyone knows how to spell John. Even if it's actually spelled Jon.

Isn't it a well-worn meme that Starbucks never spells anyone's name correctly?  I think that makes it funnier. Although if they were trying to make that point "John Sno" would have done it better.

Edited August 5, 2017 by crowceilidh

[Tikichick]

18 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I have a lot of time for Pilou Asbaek because he was brilliant in Borgen.  Thus, instead of seeing this moustachio-twirling villain others see, I feel like he has read the books and done a decent job of trying to understand the character in all of his teflon successes.  Euron is an unseely villainous guy in the books.  He appears out of nowhere constantly and he loves the sound of his own voice, he has unshakeable faith in his own talents and a through enjoyment of scaring the crap out of other people.  Of course, once others pointed out the ott villainy, I can see it too, but it's not what I saw until coming here to read today.

I haven't seen him elsewhere, but I do appreciate a different perspective to what's being shown on screen.  So far what I've enjoyed the most is the palpable tension shown with Euron and Jamie.  The two are absolutely killing that and this episode's throne room scene had its best moments with the two of them.

I'm realizing that I'm not appreciating any chemistry with Cersei and Euron.  Yes, I understand that both characters are absolutely not motivated by any interest in the other, with each simply looking for using the other as a stepping stone towards what they want.  I'm merely saying that I cannot sense any kind of spark at all between the two.  Euron and Jamie loathe each other and I feel it, plus I sense an underlying enjoyment of the two actors playing off each other. 

[magdalene]

Quote

Is it wrong to root for Euron Greyjoy? Cause I find myself liking him an awful lot. He's just as much of a dick as Ramsay or Joffrey, but with a lot more charm. Man is that guy dangerous.

I wouldn't say I am rooting for him because Euron is just too evil for my taste. However. after not having a handle on this character when he started - not his fault, the writing just wasn't there - Pilou is clearly having a lot of fun playing Euron this season.  People should check out BORGEN to really see this actor show what he can do. He has a lot of acting range.

Edited August 6, 2017 by magdalene

[Wouter]

Allthough it was generally an entertaining hour of TV, I am a bit pissed at the way that castles and the adjoined lands are being portrayed.

Apparently, Casterly Rock is considered "useless" now? As I recall, Tywin was trying to get back to protect his lands and the lands and castles of his bannerman (such as the Westerlings, with Robb taking their castle) and was willing to move his army further away from KL to do so. And when Robb lost Winterfell, this wasn't hailed as a tactical masterstroke "the Ironborn are stuch at Winterfell now, great move!", but as a severe loss. Considering that the Lannister lands are close to Casterly Rock (including Lannisport, which logically should be the source of much of the present Lannister wealth in the show), they stand a lot to lose if the Unsullied start raiding there from their new base in CR. They lack food? Why not take it from the Lannister's own lords and serfs? The army that would defend them is in Highgarden, and then probably to KL.

Allthough they made some excuses for it with Tarly (and probably other Reach lords) switching sides, it seems like the fall of Highgarden went very easily. It is a strong castle and even if the Tyrells have only their own levies, they should still be able to withstand an unprepared assault. It would have been more logical if they had shown Tarly and co betraying them while in the field, which would also leave no possibility for the Tyrells to withstand a direct assault on the walls and then call on Dany to help them as the Lannisters attempt a siege.

[DigitalCount]

It ended up being a huge loss for the Ironborn though, because of largely the same reasons. Ramsey was able to retake Winterfell rather handily with a strong army and a horn. The main problem is the lack of smallfolk in general to convey what is actually being lost here. In season 2, we saw the people of Winterfell when Theon took it. Casterly Rock seemed uninhabited in comparison, which made it seem as if Grey Worm stepped right off the boat into an empty castle, like Dany.

[Wouter]

9 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

It ended up being a huge loss for the Ironborn though, because of largely the same reasons. Ramsey was able to retake Winterfell rather handily with a strong army and a horn. The main problem is the lack of smallfolk in general to convey what is actually being lost here. In season 2, we saw the people of Winterfell when Theon took it. Casterly Rock seemed uninhabited in comparison, which made it seem as if Grey Worm stepped right off the boat into an empty castle, like Dany.

And there is also the blow to the prestige of the Lannister family, and thus to queen Cersei. She has lost her home, and her most loyal lords and ladies, as well as their serfs, are now at the mercy of the Unsullied. Some lords now should consider switching sides, especially if Cersei doesn't remain victorious elsewhere. A problem here is that the Lannisters own bannermen, outside of the Westerlings, have been a total non-entity on the show so far.

[John Potts]

So we do get a mention of Narth having beautiful butterflies. Guess Davos doesn't know they carry a deadly plague, then.

I do love Mel. She's a fanatic, but she's really committed to what she says.

Danny showing that true leader's hypocrisy - everything to my benefit is inherited (the throne) but anything bad isn't (guilt).

Deliberate echoes of Tywin and the Walk of Shame with Euron riding into the Hall? But nice callback to Tyrion as Lord of the Sewers.

Tyrion was competent in talking to Jon, getting Danny to agree about mining Dragonglass. Though why not suggest he names Danny as his heir in the North should he die? Since he doesn't currently have any children and he's likely to die battling an undead army, it would be a fairly good bet for Danny as a way of gaining one of the 7 Kingdoms bloodlessly (might want to include leaving Sansa as Warden of the North, which should soften the loss of independence). Though maybe Tyrion could try this line:

"So how can I convince Danerys?"
"With your penis?"

Team Danny could really use a decent General though - with Selmy dead, only Tyrion (with his single battle) and Greyworm (a foot soldier, not a General) have any military experience. Though you'd think Greyworm would realise that you're more successful keeping your troops concentrated than scattered. There's a reason the Allies planning the liberation of France in the Second World War only really considered two landing areas (Normandy or the Pas de Calais) because even with near total air and sea supremacy, they knew the further they went, the greater the possibility of disaster. And just what is Danny's strategy? So long as Cersei holds Kings Landing, she'll stay in the fight, so you'll have to storm it eventually. And while that would, in all probability, involve wholesale slaughter (it did last time, after all), the more overwhelming your force advantage, the fewer of those casualties will be on your side (and generally, a swift victory has led to fewer civilian casualties than a grinding victory).

"It's difficult to explain..." is one of those phrases I hate (along with "It's a long story!") because they're just used to avoid answering, so I was glad Sansa came back with "Try!"

Olenna, going out like a boss (and smart to drink the poison before telling him you killed Joffrey)!

I guess Jamie didn't know about Cersei's poisoning Ellaria or he wouldn't so happy that she was kissing him straight afterwards!

Jon could have named Danny his heir (which would piss off Sansa, but it is some acknowledgment of Danny's legitimacy)

Sansa's "common sense" approach to running WF is useful. Basic logistical stuff is as important to maintaining an army as weapons & armour if it's to be effective.

"They just like severed heads, really." At least Euron knows how to appeal to the mob.

There is a military saying (from von Clausewitz), "He who cannot risk, cannot win". Sansa strategy (seems to be) to defend what they had and hope it worked. Since the Night King would steamroll any force that marches against him without access to dragonglass, dragonfire and/or  Valaryan steel that strategy would inevitably fail. Currently, Jon has none of these*, so he had to chance getting hold of them from Dragonstone.

As for Sansa's ability to instruct armourers about their business, what I would have liked for him to reply, "Sorry, I understood this was a rush job. Do you want a thousand basic breastplates or a hundred deluxe ones?" That would actually be a decision that could be argued either way.

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 3:10 AM, Oscirus said:

Nice to see Jamie using Starks warfare against Dany

And not just working out how to use Littlefinger's teleporter, but worked out how to set it on "Group mode" so he could take an army with him!

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 3:58 AM, MadMouse said:

Euron makes me laugh but he's got plot armor that would make Ramsay envious

Though he does at least wear more actual armour (Valerian steel armour, if we go by the books), which would enhance his survival.

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:40 AM, Alapaki said:

A devastating weapon that can only be used by placing your Queen at risk of death is not much of a weapon.

Robb, Tywin and Stannis all rode with their troops. And she'd be safer than them because she could always escape by flying up out of range of any ground attack.

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 3:16 PM, Allie56 said:

The Arch-Maester already knew about the greyscale cure - I imagine other maesters also knew - but had forbidden it because it was more likely to spread the infection and kill the patient.

I saw it more as reading "Dummies Guide to Bomb Defusal" and being prepared to do attempt it without any other training. Anyone could do it, but most aren't stupid enough to try!

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:38 AM, Francie said:

Sam followed the instructions for curing greyscale. 10 points for Gryffin.... oh, I mean, bad Sam Bad, bad Sam. 

Don't be ridiculous. Sam's clearly a Ravenclaw!

* OK, they do have a couple of Valaryan steel swords, but that's not going to stop an army