The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Jellybeans]

What was Michelle wearing? I missed this photoshoot.

[EarlGreyTea]

I am haunted by the Geisha picture of Jana. How did it come to be, what was the fall-out, and was it part of the "rumor" circulating about Jana and Frank? Or have I played the "telephone game" here way too often?

Did JB have something to say about that photo? It is gorgeous...

 

I don't think the family ever said anything about it. Frank seems to just post photos of his work online as a portfolio. I believe followers of the show just happened to come upon the photo and run with it. It's telling that the photo was never deleted, which makes me think the family doesn't care because there's truly nothing going on between Jana and Frank. 

[Jellybeans]

Well, it sure is a gorgeous picture of Jana!

[barbedwire]

He just posted a new twitter pic and it sure looks like Marjorie is wearing pants!

[truthtalk2014]

What was Michelle wearing? I missed this photoshoot.

They had their faces painted and in traditional Geisha robes and hair.  

[Jellybeans]

Wonder if they read "memoirs of a geisha" lmao

[JoanArc]

In two pictures at silver dollar city she is clearly in jeans. Great!

[barbedwire]

Yep, that second picture posted is definitely jeans.  No doubt about it.

[Sew Sumi]

Defintely jeans. 

 

https://instagram.com/p/2rZkK3tKUw/?taken-by=siduggar

[NJRach]

I just can't imagine being chained for life to your first high school crush. It's just so wrong. What looks desirable to a 17 year old girl won't be what she wants when she's 25. And she'll have half a dozen kids and no job skills by then, so she will be stuck forever.

Edited May 14, 2015 by NJRach

[GEML]

I guess I don't think that Jana is equal to Joyanna or Josie. I think there is some recognition of adolescence through Alert and Journey to the Heart, and I think Jana being chosen as a counselor there was a big deal in her world and recognized her as an adult, which is why she is so happy in that episode. Plus, I actually think there is every attempt made to allow the older children to branch out into something NON-THREATENING to marital prospects. Josh did politics, John David flies, Jill did midwifery, Jessa did hair and make up, Jinger does photography, Joseph was allowed to attend at least some college and Joyanna seems to enjoy outdoor sports, and is still young enough to select her hobby. The ONLY one who doesn't have a hobby is Jana. The Duggars have put a lot of money at their children's disposal for these hobbies, given them some actual time to pursue them, and if not encouraged them, then at least not stood in their way.

[GEML]

Some of us don't mind being "chained" to our firsts. Even twenty five years later. Maybe Marjorie will be one of us.

[birkenstock]

I think that Jana's hobby could be sewing.  YMMV since a lot of the hobbies seem like skills the family finds useful, but she knows how to construct a garment. I think that Jill's bridesmaids' dresses were poorly finished because of the quantity and short amount of time she had to complete them. She also did the weird EMT skirts.  Didn't she also used to make the girls' prairie dresses? I may be confusing her with Michael(a) Bates.

 

I agree Jana is in a weird limbo. They trust her enough to run the house, yet not enough to be in a room with a man alone.  

[Sew Sumi]

At this point, she really has no choice. I do hope that if ANY of these couples grow apart that they're allowed to go to counseling, or *gasp* divorce if there are irreconciable differences. Muffy has the Conenant Marriage, but nothing was ever said about Benessa's union. It's hard to predict which way Marsiah will go, mostly because they ARE so young! 

 

Anecdotally, the only people who I know that married young who are still together are NOT with their very first partner. Much like the senior Duggars (at least that harlot Michelle).

[Fuzzysox]

If you think about it Jill used to babysit her and her sisters/brother? So they have already started the process of growing up together and she doesn't find them strange or isn't put off by them so it just might last.

[3girlsforus]

I was so excited to see that picture of Marjorie in jeans.... then I realized how pathetic it is that I'm excited about a girl wearing pants LOL

[BradandJanet]

If I were a girl who loved being in front of a camera, the Duggars might seem like a good opportunity. I'm not, so they don't. 

[Hpmec]

Josiah's posting photos of himself with his jeans wearing girlfriend is a poke in the eye to Boob and Mullet. Marsiah well know how much that is frowned on. Good for the two of them. An independent minded couple. What a concept!

Edited May 15, 2015 by Hpmec

[CofCinci]

Josiah and Margie can share the same jeans.

[BitterApple]

I'm not reading too much into it yet. As I recall, Whitney Bates was wearing pants throughout her courtship and then switched to skirts after "praying about it" with Gil and Kelly. I truly hope Marjorie is giving a big middle finger to the Duggars, but then again I once had high hopes for Derick and Ben too.

[RazzleberryPie]

Josiah's posting photos of himself with his jeans wearing girlfriend is a poke in the eye to Boob and Mullet. Marsiah well know how much that is frowned on. Good for the two of them. An independent minded couple. What a concept!

Absolutely. Although Josiah has disappointed me as becoming Smuggar 2.0, I really hope he's the one to not necessarily rebel, but assert his independence and ability to make his own decisions, and I really hope Marjorie gives him the backbone to do so, pants and all.

[NikSac]

Defintely jeans. 

 

https://instagram.com/p/2rZkK3tKUw/?taken-by=siduggar

 

Love this picture!  Go Marjorie!

[3girlsforus]

I'm not reading too much into it yet. As I recall, Whitney Bates was wearing pants throughout her courtship and then switched to skirts after "praying about it" with Gil and Kelly. I truly hope Marjorie is giving a big middle finger to the Duggars, but then again I once had high hopes for Derick and Ben too.

I agree but the one thing that has me holding out some hope is that Josiah went to Marjorie's dad for guidance and mentor-type help for a job, not Boob. To me that's a huge thing. JB wants to guide and control all the kids into what JB wants. The fact that Josiah went to Marjorie's dad makes me hope that he sees that JB doesn't have his best interest at heart and he might have a better chance at a future of his own design by not hitching is wagon completely to JB. 

[riverblue22]

How could Josiah afford a ring?  I guess the same mysterious way Ben could afford a custom ring?

[Wellfleet]

How could Josiah afford a ring?  I guess the same mysterious way Ben could afford a custom ring?

 

My guess is that since both of them "work" for Boob, he's letting them run a tab, so to speak.

[JenCarroll]

Selling exclusives to People Magazine?

[RazzleberryPie]

Love offerings. I know they're young, but it does crack me up that Marj and Siah see themselves as the 'rebellious ones' - for wearing pants and singing showtunes. Next thing you know, those crazy kids will be wearing white before Memorial Day and driving 20 in a 15 mph zone. These people would fall over dead if someone actually broke the law, got drunk, smoked weed, had a one night stand, etc.

[Hpmec]

Maybe I'm a latecomer to this, but I noticed that Josiah's Instagram moniker SiDuggar sounds like "Side Hugger." If that's deliberate, it's clever and I like to think it's another way he's tweaking his parents. Between that, his non-Duggarish wardrobe, and jeans wearing girlfriend, I think we may be seeing an emerging Duggar rebel. I also have a feeling Marsiah may toss some of the courtship rules out the window. If so, I'm doing a happy dance for them.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Hpmec

[Apple Clark]

Some of us don't mind being "chained" to our firsts. Even twenty five years later. Maybe Marjorie will be one of us.

I don't feel chained. I think they're chained even right now, but hopefully they don't FEEL like they're chained. Also, I really hope that there is not a Marsiah engagement anytime soon. A nice 2-3 year courtship (MAYBE even actual dating, they seem a lot more independent!) would be awesome.

[Darknight]

I just can't imagine being chained for life to your first high school crush. It's just so wrong. What looks desirable to a 17 year old girl won't be what she wants when she's 25. And she'll have half a dozen kids and no job skills by then, so she will be stuck forever.

People change. The same person you knew at 18 isn't the same person in 10-20 years. Marjorie is going to be pregnant with 10 kids in a little over 10 years with no education or skills. Unless she graduates. The only reason I see marsiah getting married is for guilt free sex and tv ratings

[becca3891]

There's never any guarantee that a marriage will last, but it is scientific fact that our brains are not fully developed until age 25. Just one of those cruel tricks of nature that puberty is only about halfway toward that age! So, I acknowledge that some people, and some people on this forum even, married young and are still happy, but many of us also realize that who we were at 17 is very different from who we are now. At 17-18, I accepted a marriage proposal and just knew life would be wonderful. I am so thankful that we never went through with it, because I know I would be miserable now. He wasn't right for me.

[GEML]

But I would argue that for the people in this culture, young marriage means a lot more to them than it does to most of us. It's not only about sex and TV ratings. It's about being accepted as an adult and maturity. So I honestly think you approach it with a little bit more honesty and seriousness than you might if it didn't mean those things and you had other ways to achieve those goals. At the risk of speaking out of turn, most people who aren't in this culture are looking at it through totally secular and advantaged eyes.

[GEML]

I thought it could be seeing too, because I suspect she sews beautifully. So I was surprised to hear he add it to the list of things she was only doing because she had to. At Jill's wedding it became like everything else in Jana's world - I'm only doing this because I have to and can't say no.

The weird thing is, I think she probably IS quite talented. She's likely very good with children. An excellent seamstress. A very kind and thoughtful doula. An excellent listener and mentor. But she doesn't seem to want to personally WANT to do any of them. It's rather baffling!

[lookeyloo]

I thought it could be seeing too, because I suspect she sews beautifully. So I was surprised to hear he add it to the list of things she was only doing because she had to. At Jill's wedding it became like everything else in Jana's world - I'm only doing this because I have to and can't say no.

The weird thing is, I think she probably IS quite talented. She's likely very good with children. An excellent seamstress. A very kind and thoughtful doula. An excellent listener and mentor. But she doesn't seem to want to personally WANT to do any of them. It's rather baffling!

Well, she might be a bit depressed or maybe more than a bit and there is nothing she can do about that.  

[anony mouse]

I think in some ways the change argument doesn't hold water - people change just as much between 20 and 30, between 30 and 40, etc. No one is static, and no marriage can be built on the premise that you know someone and that they will not change.

[GEML]

I've actually changed more from 40-45 than I did from 18-40. But that's me.

You don't call it a midlife crisis for nothing! ;)

[neural-plasticity]

I definitely think people can last when they meet their partner at a young age, but I think the key factor is they don't rush into marriage. I know a lot of people who met in high school but dated for 5-10 years before getting married. You mature together. I know others who met in high school but after growing up a bit realized they weren't right for each other. I hope that Marjorie, who seems like an independent thinker, would be able to realize this and hold off on any marriage soon.

Also, I find it funny that JB and Michelle always claim that they let the kids "set the rules for the courtship," but it always seems to be what they want, not what the kids want. That being said, i would also like to see their courtship have some different rules than the first three. Let them really set the boundaries they want (e.g., holding hands while courting, not waiting until they get engaged, etc.).

Last but not least, I HOPE JB and Michelle don't try to convince Marjorie to pray away the pants!!

[BitterApple]

When I was watching the "All About Jessa" epi I was struck by how little depth there was to the sibling relationships despite these kids being stuck together 24/7. Everyone kept saying the same rote phrases about Jessa being great at tasks. Coming back to Josiah, I think his relationship with Marjorie is the first in his life where he truly feels that someone "gets" him. He doesn't have to smother his intellect and curiosity because it makes Boob feel insecure, he can sing show tunes and wear bow ties and it's all good. For that reason alone, I hope these two go the distance.

[GEML]

I don't think Josiah has had a friend in that house since Josh left. With 19, you aren't going to like everyone, so it's understandable that some are closer than others. But you're right - there really aren't many close relationships at all.

[Vaysh]

 

I thought it could be seeing too, because I suspect she sews beautifully. So I was surprised to hear he add it to the list of things she was only doing because she had to. At Jill's wedding it became like everything else in Jana's world - I'm only doing this because I have to and can't say no.

 

The weird thing is, I think she probably IS quite talented. She's likely very good with children. An excellent seamstress. A very kind and thoughtful doula. An excellent listener and mentor. But she doesn't seem to want to personally WANT to do any of them. It's rather baffling!

 

I don't really find it all that baffling; I think you actually answered this conundrum yourself in your first paragraph. Jana may be good at any and all of these things but she never really got to chose for herself if she wanted to do them in the first place. She learned to sew because her family couldn't afford to buy clothes, she's good with kids because her parents decided to have a million of them and then foist them off on her, she's a doula because Jill wanted to be a midwife and needed a chaperone. It seems Jana has been forced, guilted or cajoled into most of her daily occupations and skills and if I was her I'd resent the hell out of that even if those skills were something I was natually good at and might've actually enjoyed in different circumstances. Necessity rather than choice combined with being taken for granted can take the joy and fun out of anything, I think.

[Jellybeans]

For some reason I see Jana as the one who will suddenly surprise all of us, including her family. Depending on what that surprise is, it will either be a good thing or a disaster. She can't stay in limbo forever.

Or can she?

[Zahdii]

Also, I find it funny that JB and Michelle always claim that they let the kids "set the rules for the courtship," but it always seems to be what they want, not what the kids want. That being said, i would also like to see their courtship have some different rules than the first three. Let them really set the boundaries they want (e.g., holding hands while courting, not waiting until they get engaged, etc.).

 

JB&M give lip service to their claims of letting their adult children set their own conditions of courtship, just like they give lip service to everything else.

 

Just think about how none of their adult children deviated from their parents preferences on anything.  None of them refused having chaperones, pre-marital kisses, etc.  When Bin asked JB if he could court Jessa, Bin agreed and pulled them both into a tiny office space and had Bin ask Jessa right then.  I know it probably wasn't a big shock to anyone that Bin would 'request a courtship' that night because a camera crew was right there to film it.  However, I suspect that none of the kids realized that JB would pull Bin and Jessa into a tiny alcove and force Bin to repeat his request to Jessa right there and then.  After Jessa accepted the courtship request JB immediately granted permission for them to front hug for a whole 30 seconds.  It was cringe worthy to watch those kids do what they'd probably been wanting to do for months, but since it was insisted on by JB and backed up by TLC cameras, I suspect that both Jessa and Ben wished they were anywhere else at that point.

 

It was a far cry from Josh's invisible courtship until the marriage was a sure thing, and then he and Anna did everything possible to have sex with only their hands and still keep a G rating.  JB was even more lenient with Jill, who rushed at Derick the first time she'd actually been in the same space with him and almost knocked him down with her flying full frontal hug.

 

The thing is, none of the Duggar kids have yet done anything without parental approval.  Yes, the parents let some things slide once in a while, but the only differences have been Duggar approved.  Josh's hand sex probably wouldn't fly today since JB&M have figured out how embarrassing it was to watch.  JB gave Jill more leeway than he ever did Jessa, but it could be that Michelle wasn't there to have a fit of the vapors in Nepal, or it could be something else.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Marsiah gets away with.  Do they assert their rights as adults and hold hands or kiss without an outright engagement or marriage? 

 

Does JB or Michelle even care because they're starting to lose interest in the helicopter parenting?

 

It could get to the point where one of their younger kids could take a job serving drinks in a strip joint and their parents would be fine with it as long as said kid handed out chick tracts to the customers.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Zahdii

[GEML]

Unfortunately, Jellybeans, I've known some women who did stay in limbo their whole lives. They had the small mercy of not being on camera, but JB is hardly the first father to control his children, and Jana is hardly the first to have a life stripped of choice set upon her.

[Sew Sumi]

In all fairness to Josh, his courtship was "invisible" because they didn't start taping the episodic show until Mother's Day 2008, and they needed the entire family together for those scenes in NYC and Memphis (or was it Nashville...the hotel with the ducks?). He was engaged in June. I guess the Show figured they would start with the engagement rather than at the end of the courtship, which people were bound to find to be even stranger than their hand-holding only engagement. But to start with asking Pa Keller for Anna's hand seems to be a logical jumping-off point to start Josh's story arc. 

[Jellybeans]

Unfortunately, Jellybeans, I've known some women who did stay in limbo their whole lives. They had the small mercy of not being on camera, but JB is hardly the first father to control his children, and Jana is hardly the first to have a life stripped of choice set upon her.

I don't want to hear that GEML! :-(

Noooooo!

[Fuzzysox]

JB&M give lip service to their claims of letting their adult children set their own conditions of courtship, just like they give lip service to everything else.

 

Just think about how none of their adult children deviated from their parents preferences on anything.  None of them refused having chaperones, pre-marital kisses, etc.  When Bin asked JB if he could court Jessa, Bin agreed and pulled them both into a tiny office space and had Bin ask Jessa right then.  I know it probably wasn't a big shock to anyone that Bin would 'request a courtship' that night because a camera crew was right there to film it.  However, I suspect that none of the kids realized that JB would pull Bin and Jessa into a tiny alcove and force Bin to repeat his request to Jessa right there and then.  After Jessa accepted the courtship request JB immediately granted permission for them to front hug for a whole 30 seconds.  It was cringe worthy to watch those kids do what they'd probably been wanting to do for months, but since it was insisted on by JB and backed up by TLC cameras, I suspect that both Jessa and Ben wished they were anywhere else at that point.

 

It was a far cry from Josh's invisible courtship until the marriage was a sure thing, and then he and Anna did everything possible to have sex with only their hands and still keep a G rating.  JB was even more lenient with Jill, who rushed at Derick the first time she'd actually been in the same space with him and almost knocked him down with her flying full frontal hug.

 

The thing is, none of the Duggar kids have yet done anything without parental approval.  Yes, the parents let some things slide once in a while, but the only differences have been Duggar approved.  Josh's hand sex probably wouldn't fly today since JB&M have figured out how embarrassing it was to watch.  JB gave Jill more leeway than he ever did Jessa, but it could be that Michelle wasn't there to have a fit of the vapors in Nepal, or it could be something else.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Marsiah gets away with.  Do they assert their rights as adults and hold hands or kiss without an outright engagement or marriage? 

 

Does JB or Michelle even care because they're starting to lose interest in the helicopter parenting?

 

It could get to the point where one of their younger kids could take a job serving drinks in a strip joint and their parents would be fine with it as long as said kid handed out chick tracts to the customers.

Boob and MEchelle can say the kids are doing there ministry there.....you know saving the heathens from sinning all the while making money. What a win!

Edited May 18, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[truthtalk2014]

I definitely think people can last when they meet their partner at a young age, but I think the key factor is they don't rush into marriage. I know a lot of people who met in high school but dated for 5-10 years before getting married. You mature together. I know others who met in high school but after growing up a bit realized they weren't right for each other. I hope that Marjorie, who seems like an independent thinker, would be able to realize this and hold off on any marriage soon.

 

She is 17.  Seriously, in Duggarland, they are not going to allow a two year courtship.  I have a feeling she will barely be 18 when the wedding is announced.  I predict she will be pregnant before she is 19.

[Absolom]

I thought at one point the harp was Jana's main interest but that seems to have drifted away.  I think probably because she saw Jim Bob put limits on that, too.  I expect seeing Jill's midwife dreams go nowhere, Jessa's hair styling end up family only, and Jinger's photography remain a hobby leads her to realize that dreaming doesn't really lead to anything outside the Duggar box after all.  

[DangerousMinds]

maybe the more prominent fundies to whom JB handed out wedding invitations at conferences and political events have actually SEEN how pathetic those Duggar weddings are. Why travel for that?

[Temperance]

I just read an article which had pictures of Marjorie with Josiah in skinny jeans; her jeans were flattering! But then the article says Jim Bob and she had a conversation where she decided to be modest and wear skirts and dresses so people know she is a woman. So it seems she is prepared to do what it takes to be a Duggar.

Eyeroll. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Temperance