Seasons 1 and 2 Discussion

[Valny]

Well, I really didn't think V would hit Eve when she shot, totally thought they'd cliffhang that one  I kept waiting for to hear a  thud. When I didn't hear anything I thought they'd fade to black and we'd find out next season.

Well, Eve stabbed V last season, guess it was V's turn this finale to injure her.

I was actually cheering when Eve axed Raymond.

Did they show Niko at all in the ep? I thought I saw his eyes looking out of the storage locker and the graphic said something like..."in 45 seconds", but then I don't them remember going back to him in the episode.   Did I miss something?

[justmehere]

On 5/25/2019 at 5:37 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was a little disappointed that Eve didn't ask Carolyn if Hugo was okay. I mean, I know she had a lot on her mind, but still.

I think she did but Carolyn ignored her and changed the subject.

Re: Psychopaths being capable of love: From an interview with Sally Woodward (showrunner): 

From our study and our research into psychopathic behavior, psychopaths fall desperately and very passionately and very deeply in love. And it can be very intoxicating, but they can also turn it off. It can just be turned off like a light switch.

Personally, I was afraid they would have Eve and Villanelle run off together. I didn't really expect Eve to be happy at finding her inner killer-self, but I thought she might go because of the deep shit she'd probably be in for murdering someone and didn't see an alternative. (Although, knowing Carolyn, she might not care or do anything about it... or might cover it up since Eve's DNA is all over the place.)

I'm glad Eve walked away after discovering V's manipulation. One issue that bothered me this season was that after chasing Villanelle for her serial murders, she suddenly became one of the team. Although, again, Carolyn's manipulation makes me wonder if, after seeing Eve's initial "enthusiasm", she brought Eve in for the specific purpose of annexing V. Anyway - it feels better for Eve and V. to be apart now.

I thought it was a good finale. They packed a LOT into 8 episodes. And we found out Konstantin's reason for working w/Carolyn. I liked that it was as simple as choosing his family. Carolyn is a piece of work though... she'll do anything at all, won't she? Maybe she's something of a sociopath herself.

Edited May 27, 2019 by justmehere
punctuation

[catrice2]

I see Carolyn as doing her job and a very realistic portrayal of how things work out in the spy community.

[meira.hand]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

The part I find ludicrous is the idea that psychopaths can feel love. I found it ludicrous when Dexter did it. I’m not sure what other shows you’re referring to.

Another new one is "You" and they really blurred the lines there. If the main protagonist would just avoid reluctantly killing everyone that is messing with the people he loves he would actually be an empathetic caring person. Talk about ludicrous.

[Loandbehold]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:41 AM, Loandbehold said:

If Carolyn is part of The Twelve, then they may want both V and Eve dead. So, they complete the mission by finding out who the potential buyers are of the super surveillance app/program and can arrest Aaron. At that point, both V and Eve are expendable. As someone else mentioned upthread, The Twelve plot has not been mentioned since V and Konstantin struck out on their own. 

While part of me wants to hear V have to use the safe word so Eve must rush to the rescue, another part of me really, really wants V to kill Aaron in a delicious kind of way. Maybe by poisoning a shepard's pie. 

Not too shabby a guess on what would happen. Got both V using the safe word and killing Aaron (although I had the binary either/or). Giving myself 1/2 points on Carolyn making V and Eve expendable. 

OK, Eve. Whether a psychopath or sociopath is capable of love, after rejecting their advances, I strongly recommend NOT turning your back on them, especially once you know they have a gun. 

Lots of funny lines in this episode. Some of the episodes this season were missing a little of the humor. 

First season finale, Eve knifes V. Second season, V shoots Eve. Third season takes place in the American Southwest and they shoot each other in a duel.  

[Valny]

21 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

r. 

First season finale, Eve knifes V. Second season, V shoots Eve. Third season takes place in the American Southwest and they shoot each other in a duel.  

Hey, Loandbehold...that's actually a something the writers may decide to do, not so much of a duel, but killing them both in some kind of fight...even though Eve is not match for V in the fighting dept.   

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I see Carolyn as doing her job and a very realistic portrayal of how things work out in the spy community.

Same here. The spy game can be a very dirty place to play. Carolyn knows and accepts this, where it's something Eve is still learning.

22 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

Whether a psychopath or sociopath is capable of love

I think it depends on how you define love. In the classic romantic sense? No, I don't think a psychopath or sociopath is capable of that. But I agree with Woodward that they can experience passion, and that is a type of love. Passion can then lead to obsession, and that's where things can get hinky.

[SunnyBeBe]

This was my first season with the series, but, I still can't accept that Eve is infatuated with Villanelle. I know that the story tells us that she is.  She does things that indicate that she is.  She even has sex with a man that she isn't attracted to due to being seduced by Villanelle's voice.....but, it just seems hollow to me and a love affair that is too forced and baseless. 

Villanelle adores blood and murder.  She really has no qualms with murdering innocent people.  Eve seems to REALLY struggle in killing someone in self defense. (Man with axe.) So, my issue is with Villanelle's character not Eve. I don't fault her for not becoming more like Villanelle.   I don't buy the opposites attract theory on this one. lol 

 I was tempted not to watch this finale, but, did anyway.  I suspect that my core issue is the seemingly glorification of murder for sport's sake.  There are many justifications to kill someone, even if not legally recognized......such as they stole my money, they abducted by family member, they are a threat to my country, they broke my heart, but, what this show does is take it to the level of murdering innocent people for no real reason, imo, other than the killer's boredom and then have the killer flaunt it for sexual attraction purposes.  

Eve doesn't bore me, but, Villanelle does. (Plus disgusts.)  Eve's attraction to Villanelle does confuse me, because, I just don't buy it.   With the season finale, I would prefer that they allow Eve to be deceased. (Shot dead.)  That way, her character is out of its misery.  It even hurts me to see Sandra Oh in this role.  I'm sure she's happy with the awards though.  Congrats Sandra:(

[Lily H]

I really just find Eve annoying as hell now. She's supposed to be in MI6, yet when confronted with a guy carrying an axe and in the process of strangling Villanelle, she dithers and hesitates and dances around and generally acts like a little girl who's afraid to squash a bug. "Let me think!" Really, Eve? What a pathetic display.

And that scene in the hotel lobby, where some criminal is so taken with Eve's stunning looks (must have been -- he didn't know anything else about her), he asks her out on the spot. Oh please. Does Sandra Oh have it in her contract that all men on the show must swoon at her incredible beauty? Or is this the writers' attempt at humour? Because it has now become kind of a joke.

[Ohwell]

Besides not understanding, and the writers still not explaining, why Eve is so utterly fascinated with V, I don't understand why Sandra Oh has gotten awards for basically having that same stumbling, bumbling look on her face every. damn. episode.  I see nothing stellar about her acting.

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, Lily H said:

And that scene in the hotel lobby, where some criminal is so taken with Eve's stunning looks (must have been -- he didn't know anything else about her), he asks her out on the spot. Oh please. Does Sandra Oh have it in her contract that all men on the show must swoon at her incredible beauty? Or is this the writers' attempt at humour? Because it has now become kind of a joke.

I took that as humor - it was the last thing anyone would have expected to happen.

[CarpeFelis]

If Eve was so squeamish about killing Raymond, why didn’t she just knock him out by hitting him in the head with the blunt end of the axe blade while he was still trying to strangle V?

[TimWil]

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Besides not understanding, and the writers still not explaining, why Eve is so utterly fascinated with V, I don't understand why Sandra Oh has gotten awards for basically having that same stumbling, bumbling look on her face every. damn. episode.  I see nothing stellar about her acting.

There have often been moments where she has a look of cringe on her face that makes me think of Bette Midler in Outrageous Fortune. I guess it’s that bug-eyed thing she does. It was amusing the first few times she did it but it got old fast. And yeah, Eve’s queasiness and apprehension at having to do something icky like striking a man with an axe pissed me off. It reminded me of Sandra Bullock in Gravity being all girly scared in space, whimpering and panicking. I thought she was TRAINED for that kind of situation.

I think Season 3 should be partly set in NYC and the final confrontation is on The Vessel in Hudson Yards.

Edited May 27, 2019 by TimWil

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 minutes ago, TimWil said:

I thought she was TRAINED for that kind of situation!

It was discussed during S1 that prior to joining Carolyn's team, Eve was a desk jockey, not a field agent, so it's likely that she wasn't trained extensively (if at all) in combat situations or anything similar. I think Eve's previous position was an analyst so she wasn't out on the street chasing down criminals. She was siting in the office coming up with theories to help figure out who the criminals might be, where they might strike next, etc.

[atlantaloves]

Did I miss something at the end, didn't V shoot Eve? Did Eve get up or something, because if she did I sure as hell missed it. HELP ME GANG......

[peacheslatour]

16 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Did I miss something at the end, didn't V shoot Eve? Did Eve get up or something, because if she did I sure as hell missed it. HELP ME GANG......

The last shot was Eve lying motionless on the ground.

[CarpeFelis]

So I’m wondering what will happen next. Obviously the show can’t just kill off Eve. So will she come to, get up and go for help as V did when Eve stabbed her? Is she actually not mortally wounded but following Hugo’s example of “playing dead”? It seems doubtful, given her location, that any passersby would find her, and I doubt MI6 would know where to find her either (and Carolyn sure didn’t seem to care what happened to her). The possibility that fascinates me would be if V changed her mind and came back for her.

[atlantaloves]

Oh snap.....Eve probably had on her bullet proof vest! That's the ticket!

[justmehere]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

15 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I see Carolyn as doing her job and a very realistic portrayal of how things work out in the spy community.

Same here. The spy game can be a very dirty place to play. Carolyn knows and accepts this, where it's something Eve is still learning.

Maybe having somewhat sociopathic tendencies is common in the spy game. Eve seems to be sort of borderline -- she is fascinated with serial killers, and seemed unemotional about the results, at least until it happened in front of her, but she couldn't handle the reality of crossing that line herself. Maybe that's the dividing line between analysts and field agents. (Carolyn seems a step further than Eve - maybe that's years on the job - but we never see her get her hands dirty, either.) Just speculating - I haven't the first clue about CIA or MI6 realities.

[TimWil]

1 hour ago, atlantaloves said:

Oh snap.....Eve probably had on her bullet proof vest! That's the ticket!

But wouldn’t Villanelle have aimed at her head? And we know Villanelle is damn good with a gun.

I was referring more to Sandra Bullock’s character in Gravity being annoyingly panicky in that first section-because she obviously had been trained for reacting in such a dilemma. Good point about Eve being a pencil pusher, not out in the field. Still, I hated that her first (?) murder really was like something out of Outrageous Fortune.

Damn, no Kenny in this season finale. And no sign of the pregnant character Nina Sosanya played. Good. I wasn’t fond of them dangling her pregnancy in front of us like some double murder threat. And I’ll never forgive Sosanya for her character in Love Actually calling Martine McCutcheon’s character “fat,” which was inaccurate as well as cruel.

[SgtMathias]

17 hours ago, kieyra said:

The part I find ludicrous is the idea that psychopaths can feel love.

I'm not sure the show is depicting V as a psychopath, at least not if you apply the definition the show itself has given us when the psychiatrist briefed Eve's team about psychopaths - IIRC, he basically said: "no feelings, no empathy".

V is shown as having feelings - lots of feelings, actually. There was a (very warped) version of empathy when she mercy-killed that boy in the hospital, there's despair including actual crying when she feels like Eve has lost interest, we've seen her angry lots of times, she was delighted to see that Konstantin was still alive...

Her moral compass is definitely off, and she can be a stone cold bitch if necessary. But to me, she's more of a spoiled brat with lots of mommy/daddy (or lack thereof) issues than a psychopath...

[rur]

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Did I miss something at the end, didn't V shoot Eve? Did Eve get up or something, because if she did I sure as hell missed it. HELP ME GANG......

Yes, she shot her. But the show has been renewed for a third season, so . . . 

IMO, it would have been a perfectly fitting end right there, and a bold action for the show runners, stopping the story at a natural end point, so I'm guessing that the filming was finished before they knew they were renewed. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by rur

[jrlr]

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

If Eve was so squeamish about killing Raymond, why didn’t she just knock him out by hitting him in the head with the blunt end of the axe blade while he was still trying to strangle V?

Yes!  During that entire, interminable scene, I kept thinking that if she was too (understandably) freaked out to split his skull with the axe, why not just use the wooden handle as a baseball bat and at least knock him out?  

Edited May 27, 2019 by jrlr

[peacheslatour]

15 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Yes!  During that entire, interminable scene, I kept thinking that if she was too (understandably) freaked out to split his skull with the axe, why not just use the wooden handle as a baseball bat and at least knock him out?  

I would have doubted my accuracy with an axe.  Maybe she was afraid she would accidentally hit V.

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, SgtMathias said:

I'm not sure the show is depicting V as a psychopath, at least not if you apply the definition the show itself has given us when the psychiatrist briefed Eve's team about psychopaths - IIRC, he basically said: "no feelings, no empathy".

V is shown as having feelings - lots of feelings, actually. There was a (very warped) version of empathy when she mercy-killed that boy in the hospital, there's despair including actual crying when she feels like Eve has lost interest, we've seen her angry lots of times, she was delighted to see that Konstantin was still alive...

Her moral compass is definitely off, and she can be a stone cold bitch if necessary. But to me, she's more of a spoiled brat with lots of mommy/daddy (or lack thereof) issues than a psychopath...

I thought her whole long speech in the recovery meeting (as “Billie”) was meant to communicate to us (and Eve) that mostly all V feels is “bored”/“not bored”.

If the show wants me to believe she’s not a psychopath now, after everything she’s done and said, that’s a real bait and switch. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

7 hours ago, Lily H said:

And that scene in the hotel lobby, where some criminal is so taken with Eve's stunning looks (must have been -- he didn't know anything else about her), he asks her out on the spot. Oh please. Does Sandra Oh have it in her contract that all men on the show must swoon at her incredible beauty? Or is this the writers' attempt at humour? Because it has now become kind of a joke.

It's not like the guy who asked her out was so hot. Why can't a dude ask a woman who is in his league out? Why does the woman have to be super hot for men to find her attractive? That's not realistic otherwise no ugly people would ever hook up. And why do women have to be super hot to have value as romantic partners? She's attractive enough.

[SgtMathias]

23 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I thought her whole long speech in the recovery meeting (as “Billie”) was meant to communicate to us (and Eve) that mostly all V feels is “bored”/“not bored”.

Wasn't that immediately followed by a conversation with Eve where she explains that Eve makes her feel things?

Quote

f the show wants me to believe she’s not a psychopath now, after everything she’s done and said, that’s a real bait and switch.

Even in the pilot we were shown that V and Konstantin have some kind of relationship. A badly messed up relationship maybe, but still a relationship. Psychopaths don't have real relationships, they're not capable of that.

You don't need to be a psychopath to do horrible things. I'm not saying V is not a bad person, I'm just saying she's not really a psychopath IMHO. I'd say the show has consistently depicted V as a very interesting, funny and ruthless asshole.

[timesywimesy]

8 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Besides not understanding, and the writers still not explaining, why Eve is so utterly fascinated with V, I don't understand why Sandra Oh has gotten awards for basically having that same stumbling, bumbling look on her face every. damn. episode.  I see nothing stellar about her acting.

Agreed. For every award that Sandra Oh has won for the show, Jodie Comer has deserved it so much more. 

[TimWil]

4 hours ago, SgtMathias said:

I'm not sure the show is depicting V as a psychopath, at least not if you apply the definition the show itself has given us when the psychiatrist briefed Eve's team about psychopaths - IIRC, he basically said: "no feelings, no empathy".

V is shown as having feelings - lots of feelings, actually. There was a (very warped) version of empathy when she mercy-killed that boy in the hospital, there's despair including actual crying when she feels like Eve has lost interest, we've seen her angry lots of times, she was delighted to see that Konstantin was still alive...

Her moral compass is definitely off, and she can be a stone cold bitch if necessary. But to me, she's more of a spoiled brat with lots of mommy/daddy (or lack thereof) issues than a psychopath...

I’m in the camp which think that she wasn’t really performing an act of mercy on that boy, he was most likely doomed from the start. He knew too much and would have to pay for that with his life. His confession to her about wanting to be dead just made it somewhat easier for her to do what she did, that’s all. I guess her making it a very quick death was her warped idea of what “mercy” is.

Edited May 28, 2019 by TimWil

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, SgtMathias said:

Even in the pilot we were shown that V and Konstantin have some kind of relationship. A badly messed up relationship maybe, but still a relationship. Psychopaths don't have real relationships, they're not capable of that.

And in the second episode, Konstantin calls her out on her bullshit when she pretends she cares about him.

Meanwhile, here’s the show’s psychiatric consultant answering questions about ... the fact that Villanelle is a psychopath.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2018/05/what-really-happens-when-you-tell-a-psychopath-theyre-a-psychopath-a-qa-with-bbc-americas-killing-eves-psychiatry-consultant

[Irlandesa]

On 5/26/2019 at 6:47 PM, kieyra said:

Was on another forum, with some angry shippers after the finale. So people do view this show as legitimately a romance about Eve and Villanelle. 

It depends on what they're objecting to.  I don't think this show is a true romance, "they're going to live happily ever after" kind of show.  I think the end of season 1 made that clear.  Season 2, in the end, reinforced it.  But the show has undoubtedly eroticized their connection/obsession.  So in that vein, if people hoped the show would go a little further with that and had them get physical, I don't blame them. It's not just a "people gonna ship what they want to ship" but there were specific decisions the show made to tease. I thought that's where they going until the end of Season 1.  And it wouldn't have to mean it's true love or a healthy love (because you're right, I don't think V is capable) but expecting something physical, given that eroticization, isn't out of left field for a fictional TV show.

PWB has done that before (spoilers for Fleabag Season 2 and Crashing-UK)

Spoiler

Even though the Priest and Fleabag weren't psycho killers, she pulled the trigger on them even though it wouldn't work and she did the same with Sam, who identified as very straight and Fred on Crashing, except they might--*sob* we'll probably never know.

I am fine with the fact that the show won't go there with them, even though they do have chemistry, mainly because the show got less interesting to me the more obsessed Eve got with V. But I do wonder what would have happened if PWB were still writing.  I also wonder if the show runners of each season get to dictate where these characters go or if there's an existing outline they must follow.

[lidarose9]

I agree with the people who think this season was off. I think Season One really had a good sharp focus that kept the story anchored: we were watching a more-or-less relatable, ordinary person get sucked into something much bigger than herself, pulled along by her conflicted feelings. Have you ever found yourself wading into a situation that you knew was dangerous but you couldn't turn away? I have. Eve is more than a little freaked out by the fascination that was starting to consume her. It's not just V that fascinates her, it's the whole thing: working for "the" Carolyn, being more than just a desk jockey, having secrets, lying to her husband, having a double life, taking terrible risks. Stabbing someone! She likes it too much.

Season Two has lost that focus. First it was Villanelle, then it was the Ghost, then it was the psychopathic Christian Grey Steve Jobs Julian Assange guy, with the Mysterious Twelve lurking in the perimeter. zzzzz

Sure, the show wants to muddy the good/bad thing, who do you trust, who's lying to whom, who is using whom, etc. -- the whole duplicitous spy world. But you need to keep that from becoming a house of mirrors. Eve is now one of those mirrors, and I'm less interested in her. I've seen enough shows about murderous liars. 

The best moment from this whole season for me was when that expert guy was asking Eve all those questions, and she answered honestly, and they were all alarming as hell. How much time does she spend thinking about V? Is it starting to affect her personal life? Just like an addiction, she can see herself getting sucked into something really bad, but she can't stop. Unfortunately, it all feels like a big muddle to me now.

[tennisgurl]

I do think that Villanelle and other psychopaths are capable of "love" its just not any kind of healthy love. In a non psychopath, a healthy love means that they care deeply for another person and want them to be happy in a non selfish way, but for a psychopath like Villanelle, its more like a desire to possess a person who interests them, and its an obsession, not a real kind of love. Its like when she kept screaming at Eve "Your mine! Your mine!" over and over, I think thats a pretty solid look into how a psychopath would "love" a person. The thing with psychopaths is that they lack empathy, and see everyone in relation to what they can do for them, and their relationship with them, and they dont really care about the happiness of other people, unless that happiness makes THEM happy too. So while she is obsessed with Eve and wants to have her, she cant really unselfishly love her the way other people could, hence her not killing Niko because it would piss Eve off and make her not want to do missions with Eve anymore. Not because killing Niko is wrong or that Eve would be upset, but how it would effect Villanelle.

They sure crammed a LOT into eight episodes! You know Eve, you could, like, hit him over the head with the other side of the ax right? I know that you were basically a desk jockey before all of this, but you still work for MI6, you dont have even basic self defense skills that regular people learn to fend off muggers and stuff? I wonder if Villanelle just shoot to wound, and not to kill, as kind of a "lesson" for Eve? Or she thinks this is just what people in relationships do, shoot and stab each other when they fight, then make up and kill other people later?

[TVbitch]

For me, this is one of those shows (like Barry) where I almost wish they would have stopped at one fabulous season. It was kind of perfect: an exciting cat and mouse adventure, wherein Eve may or may not have become what she was chasing. Ending on that complicated note.

This season seemed to just want to play that note over and over again and make it more and more complicated.  

I don't see where they can go from here.... Eve gets a clue shaped like a bullet and now really truly wants to take down V? V kidnaps Eve and forces her to live in Alaska? They become Mr. and Mrs. Smith?  It can only get more absurd. 

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, lidarose9 said:

But you need to keep that from becoming a house of mirrors. Eve is now one of those mirrors, and I'm less interested in her. I've seen enough shows about murderous liars. 

I wish I would have written all of this. 

[william0102]

8 hours ago, TVbitch said:

This season seemed to just want to play that note over and over again and make it more and more complicated.  

This is why people think it's queerbaiting. Will they? Won't they? One of them is explicitly into girls, and the other is abnormally obsessed. Is Eve "abnormal" because she's bi/pan? Or is it a bad showrunner falling back on gimmicks like during sweeps two girls kiss? The writers/ showrunner sure didn't help their their case when they didn't show V touching herself, but showed Eve climbing on Hugo. Or when she got all turned on earlier in the season and had that make out scene before having implied Dom/sub sex with her husband. All of the women on women action is off screen, and the audience has only seen men and women kissing groping, etc this season. It might not be explicit bias, but there is a bias against showing wlw actions this season for sure.

Do I think the will they/won't they have turned out better under a better showrunner? Yes. It's all there- Eve is drawn to Villanelle being "free", and as she gets closer to her (and to committing murder, leaving people to die, etc) will she find that Villanelle is free? or that V's type of freedom is too much of a cost? That scenario could have worked without sexy scenes of any kind.  Which actually makes me miss the old showrunner PWB, I think some posters called her? It's a very fine line to tell a story about a psychopath and someone obsessed (or in love) with them. Heck, in general, it's a very fine line to dedicate half your show to a serial killer when pretty much none of the audience will identify with her. But to have Eve obsessed the way she is makes her look dumb to the audience because we can all see what she can't about V- either they should have had her get caught up in the thrill of being 'free' in the finale, or they should have gone the romantic/reluctant route with Eve's character, because she is the one person the audience can relate to. People don't want to be bored, made to feel stupid, they want compelling stories/characters/ motivations, and that's what this season was missing.

Edited May 28, 2019 by william0102

[asabovesobelow]

Well, I hated it. The ending, at least. I would much rather have seen the two of them go to Alaska, *be* together, and then have Eve deal with the 'WTF have I done/WTF am I doing' fallout from that. Villanelle trying to decide if she really wants to change for Eve or if now that she has her she's little more than a ball and chain with regards to Villanelle's 'hobbies'.

Is it unrealistic? Yes. Illogical? Definitely. Intriguing? Overwhelmingly so.

There are a million reasons the two of them should never be together, but the showrunners have brought us this far. Take it all the way or don't take it at all. 

[roughing it]

22 hours ago, TimWil said:

Eve’s queasiness and apprehension at having to do something icky like striking a man with an axe

On 5/27/2019 at 9:13 AM, Lily H said:

She's supposed to be in MI6, yet when confronted with a guy carrying an axe and in the process of strangling Villanelle, she dithers and hesitates and dances around and generally acts like a little girl who's afraid to squash a bug. "Let me think!" Really, Eve? What a pathetic display

I would think most anyone, even if trained by MI6 or similar, would be queasy and apprehensive at striking someone WITH AN AXE

Is it possible that the gun Constantin provided Villanelle with had blanks?  And Eve did Hugo's fake death drop?

[laprin]

On 5/19/2019 at 4:56 PM, Anela said:

Eve's husband is a douchebag. I guess they had to find a way to get her to be angry enough to push her boundaries. I can understand his feelings, in a way, but not to the point of rushing off to sleep with the woman who is obsessed with him. What a twat (both him, and the other teacher). 

I find Eve to be a bigger douche in the relationship than her husband. Niko has been relatively patient with Eve's obvious obsession with V.  I have never liked the way Eve treats Niko, going back to Season 1. Also, as others have pointed out, the show has taken great pains to make it clear that he did not sleep with Gemma. 

[Rickster]

20 hours ago, jrlr said:

Yes!  During that entire, interminable scene, I kept thinking that if she was too (understandably) freaked out to split his skull with the axe, why not just use the wooden handle as a baseball bat and at least knock him out?  

In my experience, wooden axe handles are pretty light (center of gravity is in the head) and unlikely to hurt him. She would have been better off hitting him in the head with the flat side or back side of the ax head but she could have been worried (if she thought logically) that if she didn’t hit him hard enough, he could turn and grab the axe.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Quote

I would think most anyone, even if trained by MI6 or similar, would be queasy and apprehensive at striking someone WITH AN AXE

Right? She had no problem jamming a knife into V and stirring it around like she was making risotto.

[Eulipian 5k]

Eve, (in 2019!) comes off as the helpless weak adult who hides in the bathroom of her own home with no weapon bigger than a toilet brush, and cowers and screams at danger. Reminds me of the women in westerns movies of the 20th century who always fell when running with the hero. Is this progress,? A weak, non resourceful, just lie there and take it or scream no, no no, woman. Defend yourself, you're a grown adult! The instinct is "fight or flight", not stand there, crap your pants, and whimper.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Eve, (in 2019!) comes off as the helpless weak adult who hides in the bathroom of her own home with no weapon bigger than a toilet brush, and cowers and screams at danger. Reminds me of the women in westerns movies of the 20th century who always fell when running with the hero. Is this progress,? A weak, non resourceful, just lie there and take it or scream no, no no, woman. Defend yourself, you're a grown adult! The instinct is "fight or flight", not stand there, crap your pants, and whimper.

There is an episode of Columbo from the 1970's  that I love because it rejects this trope. A bride is kidnapped by a crazed stalker and locked in a room. She figures out how to loosen the rusty hinges on the door using first vinegar, then olive oil. She's resourceful as hell and she fights like a tiger. What is so hard about writing women like that?

[roughing it]

What did Carolyn hand to Constantin?  His payment?  Witness protection information?

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

There is an episode of Columbo from the 1970's  that I love because it rejects this trope. A bride is kidnapped by a crazed stalker and locked in a room. She figures out how to loosen the rusty hinges on the door using first vinegar, then olive oil. She's resourceful as hell and she fights like a tiger. What is so hard about writing women like that?

I think the first time I really remember having this kind of thought was when the main kidnap victim of Buffalo Bill, in Silence of the Lambs, was shown actively trying to arrange her own escape even as the FBI is trying to find her. I was pretty young when I saw it and I remember thinking how revolutionary that whole idea was. Sigh.

Edited May 28, 2019 by kieyra

[Eulipian 5k]

Before I'd lock myself in the smallest room in the apartment , I'd maybe take with me: cast iron skillet, butcher knife, glass bottle,. In the bath, a heavy jar of cold cream, spray toilet cleaners (nasty stuff). Anything but just crying 'please stop' ; they are coming for you!; why would they stop? Silly rabbit. I haven't liked weak and helpless "heroines" since Snow White in the second grade.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

41 minutes ago, roughing it said:

What did Carolyn hand to Constantin?  His payment?  Witness protection information?

The location of his family.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Before I'd lock myself in the smallest room in the apartment , I'd maybe take with me: cast iron skillet, butcher knife, glass bottle,. In the bath, a heavy jar of cold cream, spray toilet cleaners (nasty stuff). Anything but just crying 'please stop' ; they are coming for you!; why would they stop? Silly rabbit. I haven't liked weak and helpless "heroines" since Snow White in the second grade.

"Frying pans! Who knew, right?"

[seacliffsal]

Actually, I would be fine if Eve really is dead.  I find myself in the minority as I thought this was really boring; actually the entire season hasn't been compelling in my opinion.  I was surprised by Eve's real lack of agency regarding Hugo.  However, her lack of action under pressure probably bothered me more; after hearing the shot, not contacting any emergency services for Hugo, super long hesitation while dealing with Raymond (if you don't want to kill him, just stun him long enough for Villanelle to be able to kill him.  I'm also frustrated with not being able to figure out what Eve is thinking/feeling as she has really limited facial expressions.

Last season I really enjoyed the show and Sandra Oh as Eve.  This season I find them both underwhelming.

I'll check in for the next season but may give it up if it continues to lack direction.

[ams1001]

On 5/27/2019 at 2:20 PM, CarpeFelis said:

Is she actually not mortally wounded but following Hugo’s example of “playing dead”? 

That's what I was thinking.

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

 (if you don't want to kill him, just stun him long enough for Villanelle to be able to kill him. )

When he taunted her about how hard it would actually be to kill him with an ax, I was thinking, "you don't have to kill him to get him to let go of V's throat!"