S09.E10: Black Out and Get Out

[bravofan27]

Bethanny did not experience struggles that many have experienced that make success difficult. She went to boarding school which is pretty f'ing expensive as shit and you can network at an early age with some future connections. On Apprentice, she knew the board member because she was friends with her daughter. So her wealth provided her many advantages that many people can only dream about. She went to culinary school and school in New York, which is simply not affordable for most of the population. Her horrible parents definitely provided well for her, and she could at least be grateful for that. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a woman of color who went to historically black university, but she screams "rich white girl problems" to me. If her family was as abusive as she says, a kid of color or a poor child would be sent to foster care. She knew she had it good or else why didn't she turn them in? This is just my opinion, but I think I may have a different world-view than others. Definitely a different one than Bethanny. 

[zoeysmom]

Oh FFS Ramona and Jill have made up again:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/ramona-singer-jill-zarin-have-made-up-friends-again  Why?  Last week Jill could not stand Ramona.  Slippery slope to let Ramona back in.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Ramona is cuckoo for kadooz but Bethenny picked low hanging fruit versus a extremely drunk Ramona. Easy fight to pick. 

Telling drunk Ramona that she hasn't been there for Bethenny was to pour the gasoline.  Then throw the match. Then watch the fire burn, sit back passive agressively and wind her up more until Ramona unleashed. First, waving off Ramona's support of her when she was sick as nothing- crisis stuff that "people do for each other" (ummmm not when Bawby was sick and you ignored the Zarins ya hosebeast) was blow one. And on and on. When  drunk Ramona lashed back with very salient points Bethennys mouth couldn't rat at a tat back fast enough she went for physical filth with that spread eagle Vagina Rockette move. Using that move in an argument clearly was not her first rodeo, wonder who else she's thrown that one at to deflect a convo she didn't like? 

That and being filmed in her bra and trousers with her bolt ons jiggling after the fight was like an tantruming exhibitionist got into Romper Room racing for the fire exit. Was she changing clothing or like those fugitive stand off guys on COPS who come out of the meth lab trailer with no shirt ? Or acting out blindly to show she's skinnier than Ramona so she wins ? IDK. But it was a lengthy clothing change on camera and I found it bizarre. 

And then she ran away....... Purrs to Dorinda she had a wonderful time then says she's never fucking coming back here again. 

The oddest thing I found was that Bethenny smiles and looks the most content when she is mid knock down drag out fight. Twisted. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[Atwood]

10 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

If her family was as abusive as she says, a kid of color or a poor child would be sent to foster care. She knew she had it good or else why didn't she turn them in?

That is really not how abusive families work in real life. It's such a mix of loyalty, love and hate and disappointment, and most kids in that situation don't tattle on their parents either because they don't want to hurt them, or because they're scared of the consequences. And most kids in abusive situations don't even understand how abusive it was until after they grow up. It's part of how you survive that kind of situation. 

Every single time we've heard from Bethenny's mother she's managed to come off as worse than Bethenny described her. 

Of course she's benefited from going to a good school though, but that's kind of a completely separate issue as far as I'm concerned. Abusive parents don't negate their previous shitty parenting by signing a couple of checks.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Atwood

[RHJunkie]

I was Team Bethenny during her confrontation with Ramona. What a effing lunatic that woman is. Bethenny spreading her legs was gold. I liked that Dorinda reminded Ramona about what she's said about John. But why is Ramona acting like her fallout with Bethenny had to do her sticking up for Dorinda and John as Bethenny trashed them? And what in the hell was she thinking about damaging Dorinda's house? Ramona is a bitch. Straight up. She needs a good box upside her head because she's damn stupid. 

Got a good laugh with Dorinda's account of finding and returning Sonja to her room. I actually love the fact that Dorinda wasn't wearing shoes while filming her TH, lol. Sonja claimed to not drink anymore just this season...but then again, I always suspected that Sonja probably did still drink but she was mindful of where she drank and especially being careful in front of the cameras. 

Sonja is such a nag, good on Tinsley for keeping her cool with her. 

[zoeysmom]

Luann has her comments about the episode.  Something I never thought about Luann -she is actually insightful over Dorinda being depressed over being angry over Ramona's destruction:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-9/blogs/luann-dagostino/luann-ramona-tipped-dorinda-over

[lunastartron]

2 hours ago, ichbin said:

This just reminded me...  Last night when Carol was telling Tinsley about the art show, she included herself as one of the "beautiful" women the artist used as models.  Yeah, yeah, positive self-esteem is great and all that, but describing oneself as beautiful (as though it is a matter of fact which is universally agreed upon) brings things to an abhorrent level in my opinion.

I think it's notable because Carole is quick to impugn the physical appearance of others (i.e. John is "sweaty and misshapen" and "who would want to sleep with *him*" about Tom). 

[bravofan27]

If you are a kid of color and there is abuse, you bet someone with call CPS on your arse!

[film noire]

21 minutes ago, Atwood said:

Abusive parents don't negate their previous shitty parenting by signing a couple of checks.

Nobody is saying they do. But being blind to your privilege because you came from an abusive home negates what privilege does; give you a leg-up in life that you do not get from being born poor and abused. Frankel is, despite her narcissistic claims to the contrary, one of the lucky ones; a kid who was abused who had access to education, health care and therapy (even if she refuses to do the real therapeutic work of growing up and on).

Edited June 8, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Oh FFS Ramona and Jill have made up again:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/ramona-singer-jill-zarin-have-made-up-friends-again  Why?  Last week Jill could not stand Ramona.  Slippery slope to let Ramona back in.

Maybe they made up so that Jill could rejoin the group. After all, Ramona will need a new bff after this season. LOL

25 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Ramona is cuckoo for kadooz but Bethenny picked low hanging fruit versus a extremely drunk Ramona. Easy fight to pick. 

Telling drunk Ramona that she hasn't been there for Bethenny was to pour the gasoline.  Then throw the match. Then watch the fire burn, sit back passive agressively and wind her up more until Ramona unleashed. First, waving off Ramona's support of her when she was sick as nothing- crisis stuff that "people do for each other" (ummmm not when Bawby was sick and you ignored the Zarins ya hosebeast) was blow one. And on and on. When  drunk Ramona lashed back with very salient points Bethennys mouth couldn't rat at a tat back fast enough she went for physical filth with that spread eagle Vagina Rockette move. Using that move in an argument clearly was not her first rodeo, wonder who else she's thrown that one at to deflect a convo she didn't like? 

That and being filmed in her bra and trousers with her bolt ons jiggling after the fight was like an tantruming exhibitionist got into Romper Room racing for the fire exit. Was she changing clothing or like those fugitive stand off guys on COPS who come out of the meth lab trailer with no shirt ? Or acting out blindly to show she's skinnier than Ramona so she wins ? IDK. But it was a lengthy clothing change on camera and I found it bizarre. 

And then she ran away....... Purrs to Dorinda she had a wonderful time then says she's never fucking coming back here again. 

The oddest thing I found was that Bethenny smiles and looks the most content when she is mid knock down drag out fight. Twisted. 

I agree, she looked like a cat playing with the mouse right before she goes in for the kill. Bethenny gets off on these fights!

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

9 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny didn't apologize to Luann, she told Carole she went too far and said some nasty things that she regretted to Luann but she didn't say it to Luann until this season.

Exactly. Bethenny was not apologizing to Luann, she was justifying what she did/said.

She never apologized . She said I don't like myself when I'm like that. 

7 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Nothing will ever be as vile as Bethenny shrieking "you're a whore!" over and over again at Luann last season, so I don't give a rat's ass who screams at her this season. Of course she ran away right after because she can dish it out but can't take it. Her apologists will always try to create some excuse for her hideous, two-faced behavior but the fact remains, she flees the scene every time. I think she must have some sense that the other women (except Carole) know how much she badmouths them behind their backs and are at some point going to confront her about it. She lives in fear of this. Of all the women, she is the one who will end up alone and miserable. Ramona was at least happily married for 20+ years and has a loyal group of friends. Bethenny doesn't, and there's a good reason for that. There's a reason her personal life sucks. She uses people and treats them like shit. Look at the way she spoke to her poor employee. There is no excuse.

THIS! I loved how she said to the invisible assistant "don't let me leave without those cookies/Santa for Brynn". You have no staff with you, Veruca ! 

4 hours ago, LIMOM said:

You know what?

yes her childhood was difficult but having money helped her tremendously.

Her parents could have been poor and abusive. THen what? She calls 911. The cops come  and she is sent to Foster home or worst?

I feel like those who like her, say that money means nothing and  then take that wealth for granted, were never poor and in abusive situations. Now that is true hell.

In any case, she is pushing fifty, she has to forgive her parents somehow, if she hopes to find peace and raise her daughter in a responsible and kind way.

I envy Lulu's family. She had loving parents. 

 

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And Jill said she didn't want to have lunch with Beth, she just wanted to SEE her. I thought that was quite telling. 

 

This is why I was so bothered by Ramona saying that. She grew up with dysfunction in her house as well, abuse if I recall. Abuse can happen across all income levels. Why has she got it in her head that B had such an amazing upbringing just because of money?

 

2 hours ago, Boofish said:

I had no idea if your parents were rich and you were educated and had a car they are automatically good people and your struggles don't count. You therefore can never be self made unless you were born poor. Noted.

Bethennys father was a rock star in racing. She had privilege! It'd be like being Springsteens kid, or the child of a President, or Tom Brady or something. She didn't do it on her own like she says. 

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, Atwood said:

But see, those people still have the use of their arms and legs so they should stop whining about how bad they've had it. Because being poor, abused and paraplegic, now that's true, true hell. That thing you described sounds like a picnic by comparison. 

True, I never knew how lucky I were until I met others.

perhaps, Beth needs to go out and meet people who truly had horrendous childhood?

I am in no way saying that B did not suffer, she clearly did. I just wish that she would realize that one, her parents did the best they knew how, and secondly that it is her past.

58 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

I don't think the old Bethenny was real. I think she was the creation of a savvy PR team that Bethenny already had. Housewives wasn't her first trip to the reality show circus.

Interresting, she was doing what she accused Luann of doing. She was fake all along...

Edited June 9, 2017 by LIMOM

[Mozelle]

I'm re-watching the episode, and my goodness! Ramona, with a wine glass in her hand and as Bethenny and Carole leave, says, "What? We can't have an altercation? It's, like, you can't have an altercation?"

Bitch, what?! Ramona said that as though she were wondering, "What? You mean to tell me you don't like cake? You don't like cake?" Who the hell wants an altercation, Ramona Singer? Especially with your drunk, close-talking, personal-space-invading self.

[PhilMarlowe2]

19 hours ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

 I came really, really late to this franchise, and the first scene that I saw was Luann and Ramona at lunch together apparently not long after Luann's divorce was announced. 

With no background on either woman, I saw a lady trying to keep her composure while the other lady kept repeating, "My husband, my daughter and I are a perfect trifecta. We have a perfect life. And now you don't!" - without ANY acknowledgment of the first lady's emotions.

Luann even murmured something along the lines of, "I know you do, and I'm happy for you" but Ramona would not shut up. Perfect trifecta and you ain't got it, neener neener.

Now tonight I see a snippet from Ramona being similarly cruel and coldly insulting to BF and I am through with her.  I don't care that she was blindsided and is hurt. I don't believe in karma because I haven't seen it work, but the flat-out meanness of the woman has made her unwatchable for sure.

$7,100/month for that 1B/1b and Doris's upstairs hallways have as much square footage as my entire house -- these truly are financially wealthy women and they act like this ON TV for tout le monde to see in perpetuity ?!

To semi-paraphrase Doris's "Money talks, wealth whispers," I say, "These women are wealthier than I'll ever be, as nuts as I am, but I got MY crazy under control!" 

I know a lot is made of Ramona's trifecta comment, but it does need to be pointed out that this was AFTER the Morocco trip where Luann was very invested in the fortune teller's message that Mario was cheating. Luann was pretty much living for it. In fact, Luann even made a dig at that very lunch, saying something like, "How is your marriage, by the way?" And that's when Ramona went into the trifecta stuff. Yes, Ramona went low when Luann went low - but Luann did go low. Andy tried to call Luann out on it at the reunion and she couldn't acknowledge any of her own part in typical fashion.

[Dutchgirl]

1 hour ago, howivesforever said:

Sorry not sorry but I like Jill. Always have. I did give her the side eye her last season, but I still have love for her!

The original Jill was fun, down to earth, carefree. Jill 2.0 was a scary monster who demanded to be fed small children.

[SheTalksShit]

I agree with whoever said that Bethenny's probably seeing a therapist on how to manage conflict with people on TV, etc. but walking away from people without letting them express their own feelings is not a better way to manage conflict, IMO. Thats basically going from aggressive to passive-aggressive, where you say your piece or you piss people off with your opportunistic, selfish ways and then walk away before you let people express how they feel about it. What she should be taught is how to handle that shit WITHOUT going nuts OR walking away - how to be assertive, say your piece and then also listen to other people's points without the conflict turning into an episode of Jerry Springer. 

She hasn't learned that yet. 

And Ramona may have her faults, but guess what? She was able stay married for almost 20 years, raised a lovely daughter, etc. 

By contrast, Bethenny can't even stay in a marriage for more than what, 3 years? She's just so damaged. And I think the $ made her unstable, volatile personality 10x worse bc now she doesn't have to have a filter or give a fuck what any of these ladies think of her. 

I actually just wonder why she's even here, like on the show. With $100M in the bank, she's set for life, she doesn't need the $. It's painfully obvious that this show is nothing but a paycheck and platform to keep herself in the limelight for her, it's obvious she couldn't care less about her relationships with any of these women, they are completely disposable to her. She doesn't even try to hide it. 

I think she should get off the show. She doesn't even try to connect with any of these women anymore and she stays tight-lipped about anything going on in her personal life, whether it be new boyfriends, divorce, etc. 

i really don't see any value to her being on the show. I think it's actually better off without her. 

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, bravofan27 said:

Bethanny did not experience struggles that many have experienced that make success difficult. She went to boarding school which is pretty f'ing expensive as shit and you can network at an early age with some future connections. On Apprentice, she knew the board member because she was friends with her daughter. So her wealth provided her many advantages that many people can only dream about. She went to culinary school and school in New York, which is simply not affordable for most of the population. Her horrible parents definitely provided well for her, and she could at least be grateful for that. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a woman of color who went to historically black university, but she screams "rich white girl problems" to me. If her family was as abusive as she says, a kid of color or a poor child would be sent to foster care. She knew she had it good or else why didn't she turn them in? This is just my opinion, but I think I may have a different world-view than others. Definitely a different one than Bethanny. 

I don't think we should get into the misery Olympics. She had some breaks that made her luckier than some, but other things that made her life worse than others.

I'm a black woman who is the child of immigrants. I have a set of cousins who went to boarding school and some of the best universities in the country. Their father paid for it all. He also beat the shit out of them and my aunt on a nearly daily basis. Getting her children into boarding school was my aunt's strategy to ensure that her husband wouldn't kill his children because he would. He was also a really respected doctor so my aunt was always worried about people believing her if she went to the hospital. I also don't recall that man ever say a nice or kind thing to my aunt or my cousins. One of those cousins has attempted suicide, but she went to Miss Porter's and Harvard.

Meanwhile, we have other cousins back in Africa who are poorer than poor, but no one is beating the shit of them.

If you've read anything about the affluenza kid, it's clear that he was criminally neglected. Law enforcement kept getting involved, but no one told child services.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2015/may/affluenza-the-worst-parents-ever-ethan-couch/

There is a reason why teachers, daycare workers, and doctors and nurses are mandatory reporters of child abuse. Even when a child might recognize that they are in an abusive household, they start worrying about where they'll live, who is going to make sure there is food, whether they have to change schools, will they have to go live in an orphanage, can they take their toys, and a myriad of other concerns. And because children realize there is a universe of things they don't know about and that universe could be so much worse than their present experience, they don't tell anyone that their family hurts them because at least they know that experience even if it's terrible.

So yes, Bethenny's privilege helped her to become successful, but her upbringing is the same reason she cannot sustain a romantic relationship.

Edited June 9, 2017 by HunterHunted

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't think we should get into the misery Olympics. She had some breaks that made her luckier than some, but other things that made her life worse than others.

I'm a black woman who is the child of immigrants. I have a set of cousins who went to boarding school and some of the best universities in the country. Their father paid for it all. He also beat the shit out of them and my aunt on a nearly daily basis. Getting her children into boarding school was my aunt's strategy to ensure that her husband wouldn't kill his children because he would. He was also a really respected doctor so my aunt was always worried about people believing her if she went to the hospital. I also don't recall that man ever say a nice or kind thing to my aunt or my cousins. One of those cousins has attempted suicide, but she went to Miss Porter's and Harvard.

Meanwhile, we have other cousins back in Africa who are poorer than poor, but no one is beating the shit of them.

If you've read anything about the affluenza kid, it's clear that he was criminally neglected. Law enforcement kept getting involved, but no one told child services.

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2015/may/affluenza-the-worst-parents-ever-ethan-couch/

There is a reason why teachers, daycare workers, and doctors and nurses are mandatory reporters of child abuse. Even when a child might recognize that they are in an abusive household, they start worrying about where they'll live, who is going to make sure there is food, whether they have to change schools, will they have to go live in an orphanage, can they take their toys, and a myriad of other concerns. And because a c

I thought Bethenny claimed neglect, not physical abuse? I don't remember her saying that either of her parents beat her, just that they denied her and that they weren't "there" for her. That her mom exposed Bethenny to eating disorders, drug/alcohol addictions, gambling, threats of suicide and that they never gave her a birthday party. AND she has held the fact that her former step father beat her mother against her mother, not her step father.

Did Bethenny have a bad childhood? I guess to her she did, that is unless she blew everything out of proportion/exaggerated it for effect like she is so prone to do with most things that don't go her way.  YMMV  

[ScoobieDoobs]

19 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Ramona said her father loaned her $70,000.00 to get her business started.  She claims to have repaid shortly thereafter.  This I have been on my own since I was 16 is laughable.

Bethenny took a five figure check from an ex lover or fiancé when she was competing on Martha Stewart's Celebrity Apprentice.

Bethenny used a $30,000.00 engagement ring (which was stolen and recovered) to fund her business pre-Skinnygirl. 

Bethenny has been very transparent about using the RH and the opportunities it provided to promote her brand.  She hired a manager to get Skinnygirl off the ground, screwed him over and got sued and settled.

Ramona married into a wealthy family, she did not buy the Hamptons house-she and Mario did.

Bethenny is correct Ramona is jealous because she never realized Bethenny's level of success.  No one cares about Ramona's virtues as a mother.

There was a mutual using each other society.  Bethenny used Ramona when she wanted to take on Luann-way back when and ultimately Jill.  Ramona used Bethenny over the years to stay relevant.

Bethenny's life is better without Ramona.

WOW, what an awesome post, ZM!  This should be required reading for ALL viewers of RHoNY!  I didn't know so much of this & everything you say here is crucial to understanding who Bethenny & Moaner are -- particularly because both of 'em bullshit on the show & to the press so freakin' much about themselves and who they are.

And yeah,  I think Moaner is def shitting on & poking at Bethenny to stay relevant -- and NOT what Jillzy said about Moaner being lonely & miserable.  Nah, that was Jillzy showing her jealousy of Moaner still being on the show, while Jillzy remains exiled except for this paltry 2 minute re-appearance.  Jillzy is bitter, bitter, bitter & wants back in so obviously & so badly.  Sorry, Jillzy, ain't gonna happen.

So is Bethenny playing Moaner right in avoiding her at all costs?  Sure, if she's trying to avoid drama.  But that's no fun for us.  So I want her to cut this Moaner avoidance shit out.  I wanna see a Bethenny/Moaner showdown.  Hell, Bethenny, you're getting your million bucks from Bravo, you owe us a good showdown with Moaner!  Get over yourself, Bethenny & start giving us that cuz  I don't give a crap about the bugs in your closet.  

[bagger]

32 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

I agree with whoever said that Bethenny's probably seeing a therapist on how to manage conflict with people on TV, etc. but walking away from people without letting them express their own feelings is not a better way to manage conflict, IMO. Thats basically going from aggressive to passive-aggressive, where you say your piece or you piss people off with your opportunistic, selfish ways and then walk away before you let people express how they feel about it. What she should be taught is how to handle that shit WITHOUT going nuts OR walking away - how to be assertive, say your piece and then also listen to other people's points without the conflict turning into an episode of Jerry Springer. 

She hasn't learned that yet. 

And Ramona may have her faults, but guess what? She was able stay married for almost 20 years, raised a lovely daughter, etc. 

 

Didn't Bethenny let Ramona have her say? Was she supposed to sit there and listen to a drunk delusional hag until said hag excused her? Nah, she let her have her say when she realized there was nothing to resolve she got up and left.

Ramona stayed married to a man who by all accounts didn't just have a wandering eye but cheated on her repeatedly. Is staying in that marriage any less disfunctional than B not being able to stay in her marriage for more than 2 years? Is it better to stay in a bad marriage until you're left?

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

1 hour ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

does need to be pointed out that this was AFTER the Morocco trip where Luann was very invested in the fortune teller's message that Mario was cheating. Luann was pretty much living for it. In fact, Luann even made a dig at that very lunch, saying something like, "How is your marriage, by the way?" And that's when Ramona went into the trifecta stuff. Yes, Ramona went low when Luann went low - but Luann did go low. Andy tried to call Luann out on it at the reunion and she couldn't acknowledge any of her own part in typical fashion.

Ah! See, I did not know this part! Thank you for the background.

1 hour ago, SheTalksShit said:

I actually just wonder why she's even here, like on the show. With $100M in the bank, she's set for life, she doesn't need the $. It's painfully obvious that this show is nothing but a paycheck and platform to keep herself in the limelight for her, it's obvious she couldn't care less about her relationships with any of these women, they are completely disposable to her. She doesn't even try to hide it. 

I think she should get off the show. She doesn't even try to connect with any of these women anymore and she stays tight-lipped about anything going on in her personal life, whether it be new boyfriends, divorce, etc. 

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who wondered this!

[Trooper York]

2 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

That and being filmed in her bra and trousers with her bolt ons jiggling after the fight was like an tantruming exhibitionist got into Romper Room racing for the fire exit. Was she changing clothing or like those fugitive stand off guys on COPS who come out of the meth lab trailer with no shirt ? Or acting out blindly to show she's skinnier than Ramona so she wins ? IDK. But it was a lengthy clothing change on camera and I found it bizarre. 

I was wondering about that. Why was she standing there? Is that the new skinny girl bra? Does she have a product placement deal? 

She really is a very unpleasant person. No wonder she can't keep a guy.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Trooper York
Because with Bethenny and Ramona they are turning Manhattan into a horror movie...."The Island of Misfit Tits"

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

30 minutes ago, bagger said:

I agree with whoever said that Bethenny's probably seeing a therapist on how to manage conflict with people on TV, etc. but walking away from people without letting them express their own feelings is not a better way to manage conflict, IMO. Thats basically going from aggressive to passive-aggressive, where you say your piece or you piss people off with your opportunistic, selfish ways and then walk away before you let people express how they feel about it. What she should be taught is how to handle that shit WITHOUT going nuts OR walking away - how to be assertive, say your piece and then also listen to other people's points

See, that describes Ro to a T back in the Heather Thomson days!

[film noire]

2 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I think it's notable because Carole is quick to impugn the physical appearance of others (i.e. John is "sweaty and misshapen" and "who would want to sleep with *him*" about Tom). 

And Jules -- let's not forget good old Radzi body-policing ("So hard to watch her eat" "She's thin, very very very thin" etc ) a woman with an eating disorder. 

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Meanwhile, we have other cousins back in Africa who are poorer than poor, but no one is beating the shit of them.

I get what you're saying,  but I'm not sure there's much comparison between that (a set of loving parents/poverty) and Bethenny ( unloving parents/ privilege) as a loving parent will always trump any other card.  For me, it's about Bethenny being blind to (as you put it) "breaks that made her luckier than some", and how much worse her abuse would have been if she had experienced it while living in poverty. Ignoring your own privilege is never a good idea, imo.

Edited June 9, 2017 by film noire

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

10 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

Edited 1 minute ago by Trooper York. Reason: Because with Bethenny and Ramona they are turning Manhattan into a horror movie...."The Island of Misfit Tits"

Trooper York, would you and Mrs. Trooper please adopt me? 

"New skinnygirl bra, ... product placement," indeed! LOL!

9 minutes ago, film noire said:

2 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I think it's notable because Carole is quick to impugn the physical appearance of others (i.e. John is "sweaty and misshapen" and "who would want to sleep with *him*" about Tom). 

And Jules -- let's not forget good old Radzi body-policing ("So hard to watch her eat" "She's thin, very very very thin" etc ) a woman with an eating disorder. 

Just as some are Queen Of Denial, CR is Princess Of Projection.

[Sew Sumi]

19 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

I was wondering about that. Why was she standing there? Is that the new skinny girl bra? Does she have a product placement deal? 

She really is a very unpleasant person. No wonder she can't keep a guy.

There was a mirror behind B. She had a mic pack attached to said bra. 

Really, Bethenny? 

[howiveaddict]

8 hours ago, imjagain said:

That was brilliant, I love Lu's very dry, "invite her to lunch". Jill still can't quit Beth. 

I did like Jill saying, she had to admit she missed it, she missed the gossip. We know Jill,  we know. 

No,  it took her a year to apologize... 

She might have known she was wrong. She just  didn't see the need to apologize till cameras were running. 

And if she apologized not on camera, everyone would say she never did apologize.  

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I agree. We've seen Ramona drunk plenty. This looked like something else. What I can't say, but it was....odd...

Someone posted a clip (here or another site) of Dorinda getting a car from John, on her birthday.  Ramona is exhibiting the same over the top behavior during this scene.  She is overly emoting her excitement of Dorinda's gift.  Reading the card out loud.  I think this was another example of her jealousy. Dorinda has a man who buys her a car.  Ramona has no one.   

Also I loved at Ramona insisting on how B was dogging John.  Dorinda flat out states that RO was doing the same thing and even more so.

6 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I just don't understand why people keep saying this. Beth apologized not long after it happened. It is always so interesting the way a narrative gets going and just keeps at it even when there is video evidence of the opposite. At the time folks didn't like the apology, now it has changed to just not happening at all. 

If B had gone on all networks, wore a hair shirt, and announced her apology. People would still say she didn't apologize.  Lu has said and done plenty of bad things to B.  She even kept B away from Jill when B when to try to make amends with Jill.  Also items have been posted about the Countess being fall down drunk, all over men.  We saw her behavior in St Barths.  To me, B was just calling out LuAnn's hypocracy.  Her saying she regretted saying it, was her way to apologize .

 

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And Jill said she didn't want to have lunch with Beth, she just wanted to SEE her. I thought that was quite telling. 

 

This is why I was so bothered by Ramona saying that. She grew up with dysfunction in her house as well, abuse if I recall. Abuse can happen across all income levels. Why has she got it in her head that B had such an amazing upbringing just because of money?

Because with Ramona, money is the cure for all ills.  It sure makes her think she can behave like a pampered princess.

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

There was a mirror behind B. She had a mic pack attached to said bra. 

Really, Bethenny? 

She was changing clothes to leave. Maybe the mike pack was attached already since it was underneath the outfit she had on.

[bravofan27]

Quote

 That her mom exposed Bethenny to eating disorders, drug/alcohol addictions, gambling, threats of suicide and that they never gave her a birthday party. 

omg. If one of the reasons, even tiny, is that her mom didn't give her a bd party my eyes will roll. I will never find them again. Thank you, Bethenny. Every young girl has the right to a birthday party.  Punish that mom whose issues you didn't care about didn't throw you a party). RICH GIRL PROBLEMS. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by bravofan27

[breezy424]

3 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Ramona is cuckoo for kadooz but Bethenny picked low hanging fruit versus a extremely drunk Ramona. Easy fight to pick. 

Telling drunk Ramona that she hasn't been there for Bethenny was to pour the gasoline.  Then throw the match. Then watch the fire burn, sit back passive agressively and wind her up more until Ramona unleashed. First, waving off Ramona's support of her when she was sick as nothing- crisis stuff that "people do for each other" (ummmm not when Bawby was sick and you ignored the Zarins ya hosebeast) was blow one. And on and on. When  drunk Ramona lashed back with very salient points Bethennys mouth couldn't rat at a tat back fast enough she went for physical filth with that spread eagle Vagina Rockette move. Using that move in an argument clearly was not her first rodeo, wonder who else she's thrown that one at to deflect a convo she didn't like? 

That and being filmed in her bra and trousers with her bolt ons jiggling after the fight was like an tantruming exhibitionist got into Romper Room racing for the fire exit. Was she changing clothing or like those fugitive stand off guys on COPS who come out of the meth lab trailer with no shirt ? Or acting out blindly to show she's skinnier than Ramona so she wins ? IDK. But it was a lengthy clothing change on camera and I found it bizarre. 

And then she ran away....... Purrs to Dorinda she had a wonderful time then says she's never fucking coming back here again. 

The oddest thing I found was that Bethenny smiles and looks the most content when she is mid knock down drag out fight. Twisted. 

This!  Thank you.

[Dutchgirl]

3 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I don't think the old Bethenny was real. I think she was the creation of a savvy PR team that Bethenny already had. Housewives wasn't her first trip to the reality show circus.

Did she really have a PR team? I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

1 hour ago, Trooper York said:

I was wondering about that. Why was she standing there? Is that the new skinny girl bra? Does she have a product placement deal? 

She really is a very unpleasant person. No wonder she can't keep a guy.

You'd think she could have bras that fit ! (Brars! Jillz)

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, bagger said:

Didn't Bethenny let Ramona have her say? Was she supposed to sit there and listen to a drunk delusional hag until said hag excused her? Nah, she let her have her say when she realized there was nothing to resolve she got up and left.

Ramona stayed married to a man who by all accounts didn't just have a wandering eye but cheated on her repeatedly. Is staying in that marriage any less disfunctional than B not being able to stay in her marriage for more than 2 years? Is it better to stay in a bad marriage until you're left?

Not by all accounts, according to Ramona, their marriage was good until the last few years of the show, where he felt emasculated bc of her success and money. Whether he had a wandering eye or not, it's obvious that she and Mario were able to provide a fairly stable home for their daughter for 18 years. And he stayed with her for almost 20 years, so wandering eye or not, he always went home to Ramona and kept it hidden enough for Ramona not to suspect a thing was wrong until the last few years. If he had a wandering eye before the last few years of the show, it was probably more like one-night stands, etc. than a full-blown affair. His full-blown affair with that other woman is what ultimately made him leave her. 

Bethenny can not keep a relationship. Not with men and not with female friends. When it comes to the men she chooses, she is either a horrible judge of character who doesn't see the signs that this isn't the man she thinks he is, or she brings out the worst in these men, or they are the men she thought they were, but she decides she doesn't want that anymore and quickly finds a new man to replace the old. 

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

 

If B had gone on all networks, wore a hair shirt, and announced her apology. People would still say she didn't apologize.  Lu has said and done plenty of bad things to B.  She even kept B away from Jill when B when to try to make amends with Jill.  Also items have been posted about the Countess being fall down drunk, all over men.  We saw her behavior in St Barths.  To me, B was just calling out LuAnn's hypocracy.  Her saying she regretted saying it, was her way to apologize .

Bethenny did not apologize to Luann the night she attacked her. She rationalized why she attacked her and blamed Luann for "making her go there". As for apologizing off camera, all she would need to do, so that everyone knows she did, is to talk about that apology with Luann when filming began this season. Instead, she waited until filming began this season. Oh and she could have apologized to Luann via her then radio show, instead she chose to continue her assault on Luann with help from Carole.

23 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

omg. If one of the reasons, even tiny, is that her mom didn't give her a bd party my eyes will roll. I will never find them again. Thank you, Bethenny. Every young girl has the right to a birthday party.  Punish that mom whose issues you didn't care about didn't throw you a party). RICH GIRL PROBLEMS. 

She really did say it! LOL And when her mother was contacted by a blogger/tabloid, Bernadette gave them photos of Bethenny at her BD party! IMO, Bethenny embellished (lied) about how bad her childhood was to garner sympathy and to excuse her abrasive personality with viewers. This wasn't Bethenny's first reality show, she knew how important it is to keep viewers on your side. LOL

[breezy424]

I think both Beth and Ro had difficult childhoods.  The difference is that Beth wears it like a badge of honor.  Ro hardly ever has brought it up over nine years.  Yes, she talked about it in her book and when they were up at Heather's house in the Berkshires but not anything else that I can remember.

It's funny that in the early years, Beth was always talking about how broke she was but was living in a one bedroom apartment on the UES.  I seem to remember someone saying that her father was paying for that.  Or maybe 'broke' is just another one of her hyperboles. 

Just like when she was dealing with her fibroids, it was a 'crisis' situation.  I do remember a conversation from last season in which it was agreed that Ro texted or called her everyday when Beth was going through that.  I guess that doesn't count with Beth.  Did she text Ro when she was going through her 'crisis' with Mario?  Probably not.  Only Beth's crises count.  This has always been Beth's problem.  No one can go through anything worse than what she has gone through.  Her's is always worse.  That's how she lives her life.  She may have a ton of money but she has an endless pit of feeling sorry for herself.

On another note, way back when Lu criticized Beth for introducing the limo driver using her first name.  Beth had quite a TH about that.  How many years later, we see Beth ridiculing her employees and handing her driver bloody pillow.  Ya know, when she bled 'all' over the car. 

[robroy]

30 minutes ago, howiveaddict said:

If B had gone on all networks, wore a hair shirt, and announced her apology. People would still say she didn't apologize.  Lu has said and done plenty of bad things to B.  She even kept B away from Jill when B when to try to make amends with Jill.  Also items have been posted about the Countess being fall down drunk, all over men.  We saw her behavior in St Barths.  To me, B was just calling out LuAnn's hypocracy.  Her saying she regretted saying it, was her way to apologize .

The whole Luann kept Jill from Bethenney is such BS. We saw then meet in Ramona's apartment for half an episode and all blogged that it had really been something like 2 hours or more. If Jill wanted to play nice that was her chance and she missed it. And at that point Beth had already focused in on Luann like a Scud missile. 

I get St Barths but some of 'the paper said XYZ about Luann' inferences were kinda pathetic. These women overlap with her enough that they would have seen that first hand if it occurred. Heck- I love the old gal more when she plants a flag in some pirate's ass and claims him for the US like an uncharted island! And I question why they talk about Lu being on her back- I'd wager a month's pay one her leaving the missionary position to amateurs and riding some guy like a mechanical bull. Cowgirl up!

One thing that is funny is that Beth hates hypocrisy but literally wallows in it. She has morphed into a combination of the same traits she hated so much in Kelly, Jill, Luann and Heather. But I have to say this- she is the master of drawing a dolt for an enemy and giving them just as much rope as they need. Ramona came off like a complete fool in that supposed showdown. Which is kinda sad because early Jill and mid season Ro were the only two people who ever checked Bethenney. No one else has had the closeness with Beth or backbone to accomplish that. 

[chewycandy]

lol at "bolt ons jiggling"! Not so different from scenes when they're all in their swimsuits though.

i thought Carole was being complimentary of the others when she said she was "one of many beautiful women that were painted" or whatever, not really bragging about herself. I watched the season 3 marathon and Alex was much more eye roll-worthy with her "when I look in the mirror, I like what I see" and "I'm blessed because my parents are beautiful people" in regards to her modeling venture.

I noticed that while Adam does look kind of gaunt in the face, he has nice arms.

1 minute ago, chewycandy said:

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by chewycandy

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

Nobody is saying they do. But being blind to your privilege because you came from an abusive home negates what privilege does; give you a leg-up in life that you do not get from being born poor and abused. Frankel is, despite her narcissistic claims to the contrary, one of the lucky ones; a kid who was abused who had access to education, health care and therapy (even if she refuses to do the real therapeutic work of growing up and on).

I don't see anyone who comes from an abusive home as privileged. I grew up in a wealthy town and there was abusive, neglect, divorce, drugs, alcohol, suicide, just like any community. It didn't matter that it happened in a $3 million dollar house. 

Bethany was lucky that she got away to boarding school during the most difficult teen years. That's when kids typically start falling apart from unstable homes. Maybe that saved her. Maybe she just has amazing resilience and is a strong person. She's lucky in that way. But I wouldn't say she grew up privileged. Just the opposite. 

[HunterHunted]

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think both Beth and Ro had difficult childhoods.  The difference is that Beth wears it like a badge of honor.  Ro hardly ever has brought it up over nine years.  Yes, she talked about it in her book and when they were up at Heather's house in the Berkshires but not anything else that I can remember.

I'm not saying Ramona didn't have a difficult childhood, but it's interesting that she's suddenly overwhelmed by those memories the exact time as Molly Sims' party in the Hamptons and when people were blowing up her phone to tell her that they'd seen Mario with a mystery woman (Kasey).

[diadochokinesis]

8 hours ago, Ki-in said:

Remind me to never play poker with Dorinda. The way she kept her cool and the grace under fire she endured between Sonja in her sentimental pj's and Ramona wrecking her room was truly amazing. It doesn't matter who pays for the repairs, the fact that the room needed any must have been heartbreaking. And someone wearing clothes without permission, especially ones that meant something is kind of a violation. 

It just comes down to a respect thing.  It shows that Ramona and Sonja have absolutely no respect for Dorinda.  They don't care about anybody but themselves. 

6 hours ago, shoegal said:

I found it quite refreshing!  I think as women, we are conditioned to put ourselves down....'ugh, I'm so fat', 'I hate my (fill in the blank)'.  Add that to all the negative commentary from other people (how many times has Carole been put down with regard to her looks??).   I find the fact that she thinks she's beautiful and being willing to say it loud and proud to be inspiring!  You go, girl!

 

...and those paintings of her were stunning!

Exactly!  We are brought up to put ourselves down and it is horrible!  If a woman says, "You know what?  I'm beautiful!" then there will be 10 women behind her waiting to tear her down. We have got to change, as a society, to support women more and stop the catty BS. 

5 hours ago, imjagain said:

I did too. Just because someone else might not think I'm  beautiful, doesn't mean I have to agree. 

I'm very pretty, I don't go around bragging about it(except now lol)   but I'm not going call myself unattractive to make other comfortable. 

I dislike false modesty. Like stunning actress who  down play their looks or say their fat and are obviously not. ... Please,  own it,  be proud of yourself.  Looks are of course superficial and every one should strive for more than looks. 

Like I said, we are conditioned to put ourselves down by society. If you dare say you are pretty or whatever, there will be people waiting to tear you down.  

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

There was a mirror behind B. She had a mic pack attached to said bra. 

Really, Bethenny? 

I'm confused. What is the criticism?  That she had a mic pack attached to her bra? That's the easiest place to attach it. You can also have a strap that goes around your waist to attach it to but it chafes and is uncomfortable. Attaching it to your bra usually stretches out the bra but that bra didn't seem to fit that well anyways. 

[rhys]

I'm a B apologist. I like her much of the time. I find her smart quick & witty. 

Maybe the birthday comments were contextual. She was born on her  mom's birthday so some angst about that?

And I've read all the posts but there is disagreement among posters about whether B apologized to L right after the slut comments. Either she did or didn't. Can anyone discern for sure?

[lunastartron]

9 minutes ago, rhys said:

I'm a B apologist. I like her much of the time. I find her smart quick & witty. 

Maybe the birthday comments were contextual. She was born on her  mom's birthday so some angst about that?

And I've read all the posts but there is disagreement among posters about whether B apologized to L right after the slut comments. Either she did or didn't. Can anyone discern for sure?

"I regret the way I spoke because I don't want to be that person but you bring out something and it's not just in me."

This was sandwiched between extensive berating on Bethenny's part of LuAnn for the way she fucks younger men but had taken issue with Carole's pursuit of Adam; her villainous betrayal of Ramona and Sonja because of their deep relationships with Tom; and how it was impossible for any of the women to bring romantic interests around Tom because LuAnn would magically take them away.

It depends on if you think "I regret that you made me attack you" qualifies as an apology.

[maggiemae]

As far as making the bed when a guest - I take off the sheets and pillow cases and remake the bed with the bedspead/comforter whatever so the room is presentable until the laundry is done. Which for a lot of people and especially with multiple guests is not that day with or without help. 

Can't stand Ramona, especially this season. 

[lunastartron]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

And Jules -- let's not forget good old Radzi body-policing ("So hard to watch her eat" "She's thin, very very very thin" etc ) a woman with an eating disorder. 

I get what you're saying,  but I'm not sure there's much comparison between that (a set of loving parents/poverty) and Bethenny ( unloving parents/ privilege) as a loving parent will always trump any other card.  For me, it's about Bethenny being blind to (as you put it) "breaks that made her luckier than some", and how much worse her abuse would have been if she had experienced it while living in poverty. Ignoring your own privilege is never a good idea, imo.

And exclaiming "Oh, Jesus" in disgust when Jules mentioned recently having a purging relapse.

Or tittering with Bethenny within ten feet of Jules about how "freaked out" they were because she wasn't gobbling down lox at the breakfast she was hosting.

The "it's hard to watch her eat" remark has my vote as the worst thing anyone has ever said on this franchise. You really have to be sick in the head to think that making that comment in front of someone who battled anorexia to the brink of death was okay.

It's inspires no small amount of cognitive dissonance to read the posts about how Carole is to be applauded for trumpeting her beauty because people tear down the appearances and physical features of others.

Yes, people sure do. People like Carole.

[ElDosEquis]

39 minutes ago, rhys said:

I'm a B apologist. I like her much of the time. I find her smart quick & witty. 

Maybe the birthday comments were contextual. She was born on her  mom's birthday so some angst about that?

And I've read all the posts but there is disagreement among posters about whether B apologized to L right after the slut comments. Either she did or didn't. Can anyone discern for sure?

My father and I had b-days that were two days apart.

As I grew up, in the weeks prior to our birthdays, everyone would get into the "what are we going to do for Dad's birthday?"

On more that one occasion, someone would buy the large sheet cake with "Happy B-Day Dad" written in wonderful script and someone would take one of those gel frosting pens and add my name to one corner.

For a few years, I wanted a birthday all to myself, now that Dad isn't with me anymore, I get 'the whole cake' .. One day Beffy will have the whole day and the whole cake to herself.

I wonder if she realizes that it sucks to be an orphan? 

[JakeyJokes]

Tinsley's worries about moving from the UES to SoHo reminded me of the Nora Ephron essay where her rent at the Apthorp goes up astronomically and she finally leaves the UES for the UWS (I might have this backwards). Manhattanites are used to walking everywhere, and she also wrote about having to find a new hairdresser, manicurist, dry cleaner, etc.

"Ramona is still in weird mode, but I find it more tolerable because this time she's complimenting my breasts." I still heart Carole.

I think I laughed more during that preview than any show lately. The part where LuAnn faceplants off of the fountain and a drunken Ramona, in holier-than-thou mode and drink in hand, bellows "You should have gone THIS way"? DEAD.

[ElDosEquis]

1 hour ago, robroy said:

The whole Luann kept Jill from Bethenney is such BS. We saw then meet in Ramona's apartment for half an episode and all blogged that it had really been something like 2 hours or more. If Jill wanted to play nice that was her chance and she missed it. And at that point Beth had already focused in on Luann like a Scud missile. 

I get St Barths but some of 'the paper said XYZ about Luann' inferences were kinda pathetic. These women overlap with her enough that they would have seen that first hand if it occurred. Heck- I love the old gal more when she plants a flag in some pirate's ass and claims him for the US like an uncharted island! And I question why they talk about Lu being on her back- I'd wager a month's pay one her leaving the missionary position to amateurs and riding some guy like a mechanical bull. Cowgirl up!

One thing that is funny is that Beth hates hypocrisy but literally wallows in it. She has morphed into a combination of the same traits she hated so much in Kelly, Jill, Luann and Heather. But I have to say this- she is the master of drawing a dolt for an enemy and giving them just as much rope as they need. Ramona came off like a complete fool in that supposed showdown. Which is kinda sad because early Jill and mid season Ro were the only two people who ever checked Bethenney. No one else has had the closeness with Beth or backbone to accomplish that. 

I was with a group of co-workers when the talk turned to sex.

One woman made a comment about 'pounding a guy's ass into the mattress'.

This made me laugh like a maniac.

I picture lulu as more a 'barrel racer' kind of gal, they get some air, bouncing around in the saddle?

[SheTalksShit]

3 hours ago, film noire said:

And Jules -- let's not forget good old Radzi body-policing ("So hard to watch her eat" "She's thin, very very very thin" etc ) a woman with an eating disorder. 

I get what you're saying,  but I'm not sure there's much comparison between that (a set of loving parents/poverty) and Bethenny ( unloving parents/ privilege) as a loving parent will always trump any other card.  For me, it's about Bethenny being blind to (as you put it) "breaks that made her luckier than some", and how much worse her abuse would have been if she had experienced it while living in poverty. Ignoring your own privilege is never a good idea, imo.

Beyond even the money, what really bugs me about her is she seems so ungrateful and ignores one of the most important privilages, I think,  that she's always had that gets people through things: a support system. She's ALWAYS had friends willing to be there for her and ALWAYS has a man, it's not like they all cheat on her and leave, she leaves them. And we're supposed to feel sorry for her relationship woes, whether it be friendships or romantic? 

I just don't feel sorry for her. At all. 

[Drumpf1737]

6 hours ago, film noire said:

Nobody is saying they do. But being blind to your privilege because you came from an abusive home negates what privilege does; give you a leg-up in life that you do not get from being born poor and abused. Frankel is, despite her narcissistic claims to the contrary, one of the lucky ones; a kid who was abused who had access to education, health care and therapy (even if she refuses to do the real therapeutic work of growing up and on).

As an adult survivor of child abuse I'd like to respectfully suggest that you talk to one of us before settling on an idea. It is devastating not to have a mother's love. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Drumpf1737

[film noire]

12 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

As an adult survivor of child abuse I'd like to respectfully suggest that you talk to one of us before settling on an idea. It is devastating not to have a mother's love. 

I'm well aware of that. Luckily - and I have grown to know the truth of that word -- luckily, what I don't know about is landing in foster care (which is where poor children are shipped, often facing even more abuse) or being denied college (a lifeline most abused children stuck in poverty never have) or being robbed of a future because poor people in general are dirt under the collective shoe of our culture anyway, never mind abused kids. And Bethenny Frankel doesn't know about any of those things either.  But instead of that helping her to put her pain in a larger context -- to notice the wind at her back as she counts up her wounds --  it seems to have aggrandized all of it, leading her to throw invective at every single person who crosses her path (all the while insisting that *they're* the problem, not her. After all, she's just owning things -- randomly, with no direction or ability to not re-offend - but hey, ownership sounds good in a Skinny Girl economy).  She has become the abuser in every moment of conflict on this show, and that's because, imo, her narcissism and lack of empathy have led her to believe nobody had it worst, ain't no story sadder than her own, and therefore, she is justified and entitled to inflict hurt after hurt after hurt because she was hard done by. When you think you've survived the worst, everybody else becomes a paper doll in your world -- how could any of us possibly know the hell Bethenny has lived? - watch me raise my hand while raising my eyebrows. Because that's what I always do when an abuser defends their tactics.

Edited June 9, 2017 by film noire

[lunastartron]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

I'm well aware of that. Luckily - and I have grown to know the truth of that word -- luckily, what I don't know about is landing in foster care (which is where poor children are shipped, often facing even more abuse) or being denied college (a lifeline most abused children stuck in poverty never have) or being robbed of a future because poor people in general are dirt under the collective shoe of our culture anyway, never mind abused kids. And Bethenny Frankel doesn't know about any of those things either.  But instead of that helping her to put her pain in a larger context -- to notice the wind at her back as she counts up her wounds --  it seems to have aggrandized all of it, leading her to throw invective at every single person who crosses her path (all the while insisting that *they're* the problem, not her. After all, she's just owning things -- randomly, with no direction or ability to not re-offend - but hey, ownership sounds good in a Skinny Girl economy).  She has become the abuser in every moment of conflict on this show, and that's because, imo, her narcissism and lack of empathy have led her to believe nobody had it worst, ain't no story sadder than her own, and therefore, she is justified and entitled to inflict hurt after hurt after hurt because she was hard done by. When you think you've survived the worst, everybody else becomes a paper doll in your world -- how could any of us possibly know the hell Bethenny has lived? - watch me raise my hand while raising my eyebrows. Because that's what I always do when an abuser defends their tactics.

Thank you for such a well articulated post.

Personally, I think Bethenny is turning into a textbook representation of a substance abuser/addict. There's the compulsive self-mythologizing with only a cursory relationship to consistency (notably, her account of boarding school has been at different times a reflection of parental neglect vis a vis her being "shipped off" versus something that she herself requested); an ever intensifying fetish for victimization; and increasingly bizarre ascriptions of accountability (LuAnn made me attack her; the house caused me to conduct myself like an asshole; a coworker's hair inspired my morally deviant sadism). 

Plenty of fucked up shit befell Kim Richards (albeit in a different way than Bethenny) both during her childhood and adult life. That doesn't somehow mitigate her destructive behavior over the years (her neverending martyrdom at the hands of Kyle; her "she got a bite on her fucking finger" ethos about self-responsibility; etc) and/or negate the fact that both in the past and present she enjoys a significant degree of privilege and resources about which many can only dream. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by lunastartron