S09.E10: Black Out and Get Out

[hoodooznoodooz]

Do we know if Ramona really sold that many cases of her wine?

[Happy Camper]

15 hours ago, BBHN said:

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I pointed out the exact same thing last week.  Of course you can be wealthy and be in an absolutely horrible situation, especially as a child.  But if I had to pick between two evils, I sure as hell would pick that over the same exact horrible situation while being poor.  The only people who say money doesn't matter are rich people.  Period end of story.

Nah, not end of story. Saying someone's pain doesn't count because someone else's pain was worse or whatever doesn't work. Some people grew up happy whether they are rich or poor, some people grew up miserable whether they are rich or poor.

If we're going to pooh pooh someone's experiences because we feel that they have no grounds to complain, then 't every time someone here posts a sad story about their lives it be met with a "Quit whining, at least you aren't in Syria or Iraq..."

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This is a great example of YMMV.   All of this depends on the credibility of the story teller.

In my opinion, (YMMV) Bethenny is not a credible story teller. She has lied/exaggerated/twisted circumstances too many times.

But then there are the Beth fans that will believe every word that comes from her mouth.

It all is really so subjective. 

All about the mileage. May. Vary.

[RedheadZombie]

13 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

Don't give up all hope.  Luann may come out with another music single. She has the voice of an angel.  

She sounded like Katherine Hepburn when singing happy birthday to Dorinda.  

[RedheadZombie]

On June 9, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Mozelle said:

Not only women, but men will gladly line up to tear women down for their looks as well. You see it on social media. There have also been women who've done these (anecdotal) experiments while online dating. A guy will message a woman and tell her he thinks she's beautiful and "OMG! You're so fine!" When the woman agrees--"I think so, too"--then he gets pissed off. Like, to the point where he's cussing in response or calling her conceited and telling her all she has to do is say "Thank you."

As to the words in red - It's pretty blatant here, too. It is what it is, I guess. 

Must be why she can't get a man to marry her.

[BBHN]

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This is a great example of YMMV.   All of this depends on the credibility of the story teller.

In my opinion, (YMMV) Bethenny is not a credible story teller. She has lied/exaggerated/twisted circumstances too many times.

But then there are the Beth fans that will believe every word that comes from her mouth.

It all is really so subjective. 

All about the mileage. May. Vary.

Well, yeah, that's what being a fan of someone means. That's how being a fan works. You tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, you aren't really a fan. And you make it sound like it is some sort of insult. I don't see it that way.

Of course, there are people from the opposite end of the spectrum who will always have an automatic knee-jerk reaction to everything she does, where she will always be a cracker-eating bitch no matter what she does. No. Matter. What.

But then, even that is subjective, I suppose.

And it really is all about the mileage. May. Vary.

Edited June 11, 2017 by BBHN

[BBHN]

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These women get accused of a lot of things, but wanting to commit an act of attempted murder isn't something I feel they deserve.  Even the wildest of the housewives wouldn't push someone down a set of stairs, they would know that could kill the other person.  

Exactly.

Quote

Multiple choice:

Reason married Tom

Don't forget the yacht! Makes choice B that much sweeter ;)

[film noire]

20 hours ago, BBHN said:

Nah, not end of story. Saying someone's pain doesn't count because someone else's pain was worse or whatever doesn't work. 

I haven't seen anybody say it doesn't count. What I have seen people say is that Bethenny seems to dismiss the value of having had a safety net, one abused kids living in poverty don't have. 

And (to bring it back to this episode) she's running from something that will overtake her, in the end; she's been devolving since she came back (and I say that as someone who defended her during her initial return to the show). These last two weeks alone have been like a b & w fifties "social issue" movie (Three Faces of Bethenny in The Snakepit)  crossed with a Frontline investigation into seventies group therapy gone wrong. First she forced some kind of bastard child of an intervention on Luann (for Luann's own good, yet) and then (when Luann didn't crack or break) Bethenny made her grande dame exit, purse in hand like Queen Elizabeth wandering the halls of Windsor ("Diana, did M15 really murder you?") Then she took to her fainting couch, sobbing and spewing "Me! Me! MEEEEEE!" attention-grabbing shit when Luann turned up, all resulting in an MGM-worthy climax of Bethenny diving in for a hug, while proclaiming herself beyond all hope of healing. (Not that Bethenny's devastated sense of self kept her from mocking Luann - and Luann's embrace -- to her own personal Renfield, Carole, a sidekick always happy to uncurl her tongue and snap Bethenny's bullshit right out of the air). For years,  Bethenny Frankel has lived in a world where nobody else's pain counts; maybe it's time the rest of the world started challenging that narcissistic fantasy. 

So, you know -- that's what people have been saying, imo ; )

Quote

If we're going to pooh pooh someone's experiences because we feel that they have no grounds to complain, then 't every time someone here posts a sad story about their lives it be met with a "Quit whining, at least you aren't in Syria or Iraq..."

I disagree. Owning your past - while also seeing how financial resources gave you tools others like you didn't have - doesn't need to be done in a competitive spirit. The opposite is just as possible.

Edited June 11, 2017 by film noire

[bravofan27]

Carole was super rude to Luann at first. She was appalled that she called herself an Indian (which just means indigenous and there is nothing wrong with it-- there are indians everywhere Native Americans being one type of indigenous people-- there a countless others). She was super offended that Luann asked her friend to make her a dress, since she only makes dresses for important people and an article in a magazine was not worthy of her time, she didn't like she called herself a countess, and she HATED Luann copied her cape. This was back when Carole was dating the Aerosmith guy, and she was much much much more "cool" back then. I remember the guy came out to a vacation spot all the ladies were at, and Carole acted she she couldn't stand any of them, and would roll her eyes to the bf like, "god, they are lame." Now she is dating Adam who I don't think she tries so hard to impress. Maybe at first she was like, "Okay! I'll take Molly! It looks like candy!" And she came to her wits and realized she wasn't a druggie and stopped that nonsense. 

The only person I would say Luann has really been friends with is Dorinda. Luann actively disliked Alex, made fun of Bethanny and still makes fun of Sonja, Luann and Ramona are like two dogs that when they see each just can't wait to play, and after 20 seconds they are ripping each other to shreds. \

I like Luann though! She is what she is, and I appreciate that. Though I do think she is selling herself with Tom a bit, if she is happy, then so be it. Hopefully, he can really afford her and he's not faking it. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by bravofan27

[BBHN]

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I haven't seen anybody say it doesn't count. What I have seen people say is that Bethenny dismisses the value of having a safety net, one abused kids living in poverty don't have. 

I've seen it.

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So, you know -- that's what people have been saying, imo ; )

That and whole lot of other stuff, too, imo ;)

Quote

Luann actively disliked Alex, made fun of Bethanny and still makes fun of Sonja, Luann and Ramona are like two dogs that when they see each just can't wait to play, and after 20 seconds they are ripping each other to shreds. \

Sounds like the problem is Luann, not Carole...

Quote

I disagree. Owning your past - -while also seeing how status and background have given you tools others like you didn't have - doesn't need to be done in a competitive spirit. The opposite is just as possible.

But you are still using someone's status and background to diminish what they went through, whether that person owns it or not, and regardless of how they grew up.

It's funny you bring up the competitive spirit, given how many comments we have seen from people chastising Bethenny's complaints by comparing it their own life experiences, and more or less telling her to have a seat until she experiences real pain. They are basically trying to diminish Bethenny's experiences via their own experiences.

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She sounded like Katherine Hepburn when singing happy birthday to Dorinda.  

Poor Hepburn.

Edited June 12, 2017 by BBHN

[film noire]

32 minutes ago, BBHN said:

But you are still using someone's status and background - in a roundabout way - to diminish what they went through.

I disagree. What anyone went through is not in question; the available resources for dealing with what they went through is what's being examined.   Bethenny had access to a range of help and a future (most) poor kids don't. Just because she won't acknowledge that fact doesn't diminish the truth of it (or the implications, personal or otherwise).  

Edited June 11, 2017 by film noire

[Inspectabecky]

On 6/10/2017 at 2:18 AM, HunterHunted said:

That's the season when Mario was publicly cheating on Ramona with Kasey. I think we all knew that her marriage meant a lot to her, but in hindsight it's clear that she derived a great deal of her self-worth from it. She was always crazy and terrible, but the loss of Mario as her lodestar spun her out in crazy directions and she hasn't been right since then.

At least once a season Sonja does something to remind you that she is completely awful.

http://hamricklaw.com/news-media/articles/it-takes-courage-strength-the-power-conviction-of-one-voice-to-right-a-wrong/#

Never forget!!!!!

Carole is not remotely worth that amount. Anthony's father died famously in debt--$30,000,000 in debt mostly because of Lee's spending. At some point because Lee was not paying attention to her children, Jackie created trust funds for Anthony and Christina. The money (it was actually a chair) that Anthony and Carole got to buy their apartment came from Jackie. Jackie's will specifically said that she had money for Anthony and Christina, but nothing for Lee because Jackie had been giving Lee an allowance for decades. The only family money Carole has came from Jackie and I don't think it was more than a million and any pension, 401K, or life insurance that Anthony may have had.

Do you know anything about the land inheritance she spoke of in the 100 ep special? (The story about her being a land barroness/princess and causing Andy to drool..)

[diadochokinesis]

1 hour ago, Inspectabecky said:

Do you know anything about the land inheritance she spoke of in the 100 ep special? (The story about her being a land barroness/princess and causing Andy to drool..)

The Radziwill land inheritance is actually quite vast.  It is over 20 palaces and a ton of manors. So, it would count towards her net worth but it isn't really liquid money that you can spend on stuff.  Another example would be the Queen of England. She has an enormous net worth but it isn't like she can really sell Buckingham.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

On 6/9/2017 at 11:21 PM, crgirl412 said:

GOLD.  Pure gold. 

I agree! I would totally watch a Dorinda hostess show !! The only part that bugs me is I believe she said I DID IT NICE ! not made it nice and I did it nice is funnier to me with her angry pout, that was so funny. 

[BBHN]

Quote

I disagree. What anyone went through is not in question; the available resources for dealing with what they went through is what's being examined.   Bethenny had access to a range of help and a future (most) poor kids don't. Just because she won't acknowledge that fact doesn't diminish the truth of it (or the implications, personal or otherwise).  

And again, a roundabout way to diminish what she went through. At least there is consistency lol

"You're rich, quit whining about what you went through, because you can afford to get help. (Most) poor kids don't even have that!"

Quote

The Radziwill land inheritance is actually quite vast.  It is over 20 palaces and a ton of manors. So, it would count towards her net worth but it isn't really liquid money that you can spend on stuff.  Another example would be the Queen of England. She has an enormous net worth but it isn't like she can really sell Buckingham.

I wonder if that is why people came up with the $50 million number?

Edited June 11, 2017 by BBHN

[ghoulina]

On 6/9/2017 at 11:50 PM, diadochokinesis said:

To me, the thing isn't the work that is going to have to be done and who is going to pay for it.  It shows a fundamental lack of respect for not only Blue Stone Manor but also Dorinda.  Dorinda adores that house.  She dreamed of owning it as a kid and Richard bought it for her. That house has significant emotional meaning for her. Ramona (and really Sonja) just crapped all over that. 

Exactly. To me, the issue was never how much it would take to fix the damage, or who would do it, how much effort it would take, etc. It's the pure act of being SO disrespectful to a place that Dorinda takes so much pride in. She has a real emotional attachment to that place, and they're acting like they're staying at a Motel 6. 

 

23 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Add me to the list of folks who have never heard of a widow changing her name. In my experience, divorced women don't much either, unless they remarry. My mom kept her married name even after the divorce and even when my father remarried a bunch of times. She wanted to have the same last name as her kids. Also, in my family it has been custom for generations for the women to adopt their given last name as their middle name when they marry, so we all keep that part of us even after marriage. Strange to some, but we love this tradition

And, on top of all that, it's a right pain in the ass. You have to get it legally changed and then do the DL and SS card, and then notify literally everyone you do business with that your name is now ____. Unless I was getting married again, I would not make that effort - widowed OR divorced. Fuck that. 

[diadochokinesis]

3 hours ago, BBHN said:

And again, a roundabout way to diminish what she went through. At least there is consistency lol

"You're rich, quit whining about what you went through, because you can afford to get help. (Most) poor kids don't even have that!"

I wonder if that is why people came up with the $50 million number?

That would be my assumption.  I don't know if it is split between family members and how many but it would explain why they came up with $50 million but Carole objects to it.  It isn't like she has $50 million in the bank.  Plus, those land grants can be horrible.  We saw that on Ladies of London where the upkeep of a castle can cost you a small fortune. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, Inspectabecky said:

Do you know anything about the land inheritance she spoke of in the 100 ep special? (The story about her being a land barroness/princess and causing Andy to drool..)

4 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

The Radziwill land inheritance is actually quite vast.  It is over 20 palaces and a ton of manors. So, it would count towards her net worth but it isn't really liquid money that you can spend on stuff.  Another example would be the Queen of England. She has an enormous net worth but it isn't like she can really sell Buckingham.

3 hours ago, BBHN said:

I wonder if that is why people came up with the $50 million number?

 

 

What property??? I think Carole was being facetious when she referred to herself as a "land barroness." Are we forgetting the impact that the Russian Revolution, Nazi Germany's occupation of Poland, and the Soviet Union would have on any "Radziwill property?"

Of the "Radziwill properties", this is what happened  to them:

• Biržai Castle was sold to the Tyszkiewicz family. It's now a library and museum.
• Dubingiai Castle was sold to the Tyszkiewicz family. It was abandoned and is now an archeological site because it's collapsed and only ruins remain.
• Lubcha Castle became a Soviet school in 1947.
• Mirsky Castle Complex passed to the heirs of a Radziwill daughter. That family held it until the Soviet occupation of Poland. During the German occupation of Poland, it became a Jewish ghetto. After WW IIRC, it was turned into public housing. It's now a UNESCO  World Heritage Site.
• Niasvizh Castle--the Radziwills were forced to flee from the Soviet army. It became a mental hospital under Soviet control and would later become a UNESCO World Heritage Site.
• Olyka Castle
• Pac-Radziwiłł Palace is now the Polish Ministry of Health.
• Radziwiłł Palace in Berlin was turned into the German Reich Chancellery. It was severely damaged in WW II and demolished.
• Radziwiłł Palace in Vilnius houses part of the Lithuanian Art Museum.
• Radziwiłł Palace in Warsaw is now the Polish Presidential Palace.

It looks like all of the "Radziwill property" has been confiscated by the government.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radziwiłł_family?wprov=sfla1

Stas helped to found the Sikorski Historical Institute in London and St. Anne's Church at Fawley Court, the site of Divine Mercy College, a school for boys of Polish origin. Both Stas and Anthony were interred at Fawley Court. I don't know if the Radziwills had any ownership interest in Fawley Court, which was sold in 2010, but issues with the disinterrment of Stas, Anthony, and priest prevented the property from falling changing hands.

On the off chance that the Radziwills had other property outside of eastern Europe and Germany, people need to remember that Stas (Anthony's dad) had an older brother, Edmund, who had 2 children of his own. One of which has already had 2 sons. Additionally, Anthony has an older brother, Jan, from Stas' 2nd marriage. The Radziwills practiced male primogeniture, which means that even if there is Radziwill property, Edmund's male heirs would get it before Stas' kids. And Jan would get it before Anthony.

Edited June 11, 2017 by HunterHunted

[rhys]

Why do I seem to recall that D purchased Blue Stone Manor long before Richard was in the picture? Iirc, she bought that place herself with her own money.

[KungFuBunny]

3 minutes ago, rhys said:

Why do I seem to recall that D purchased Blue Stone Manor long before Richard was in the picture? Iirc, she bought that place herself with her own money.

Dorinda's father did some work there when she was growing up. She also used to say to her dad when she grew up she was going to own that house. Richard her late husband bought it for her as a wedding gift.

[KungFuBunny]

Ramona still cracks me up

After Bethenny is already set to leave, Ramona says "Hopefully, we'll get over this."

In the trailer for what's coming soon, it looks like Ramona goes to Mexico which I thought was a "Bethenny" hosted trip for SKG Tequila.

[jaync]

Quote

"You're a bitch. You are a bitch. You're the Bethenny fucking bitchy witch. You're the bitchy witch. Bethenny is a bitchy witch. That's who you are. Good luck to you."

And on that alone, Ramona "won" that round.

That closet scene was set up to take a jab at John and his business (and to remind that the bitchy witch is rich). Shitty, and unnecessary.

On a superficial note, Tom is kind of hot. I can see how he gets it.

[BBHN]

Quote

And on that alone, Ramona "won" that round.

If the round was being scored by how many times a person would say bitch/bitchy, sure. If we had known beforehand, it would have made a fun drinking game...

Quote

Tom is kind of hot. I can see how he gets it.

Diamond dicked goblins must be the rage in the UES.

Edited June 11, 2017 by BBHN

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Dorinda's father did some work there when she was growing up. She also used to say to her dad when she grew up she was going to own that house. Richard her late husband bought it for her as a wedding gift.

That is the sweetest story!  Although some of the décor wouldn't be my choice, I certainly appreciate Dorinda's attachment to her house and the things in it.  I'm sure that she could walk us through it and point out every memento and tell us the history of every one of them.  I wonder if Richard caught some of those fish hanging on the walls.  I have a small curio cabinet with cat figurines I've been collecting for 30 years.  I can recall the details in which I got each of them.  I'm sure we're all the same way about certain things in our homes.  Even though the things in my house wouldn't be considered sophisticated, it's warm and comfortable to me.  I can appreciate that in other people's  homes too.  I'd rather see lived in and comfortable, than something cold and sterile looking.   YMMV.

[Trooper York]

9 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

The only person I would say Luann has really been friends with is Dorinda. Luann actively disliked Alex, made fun of Bethanny and still makes fun of Sonja, Luann and Ramona are like two dogs that when they see each just can't wait to play, and after 20 seconds they are ripping each other to shreds. \

I like Luann though! She is what she is, and I appreciate that. Though I do think she is selling herself with Tom a bit, if she is happy, then so be it. Hopefully, he can really afford her and he's not faking it. 

This is right on the money. Luann does not suffer fools gladly. She knows that she is a hypocrite and a phony and she can sniff that out in someone else like Ramona looking for a truffle. 

The thing about Luann is that she is a cool chick that men love to hang out with unlike any of the other ladies. They all reek of desperation. Luann not so much.

I think she likes Dorinda because she is pretty authentic. Just a drunken sloppy ho. It is always good to hang out with somebody like that. They make you look good in comparison. 

[film noire]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

What property??? I think Carole was being facetious when she referred to herself as a "land barroness." Are we forgetting the impact that the Russian Revolution, Nazi Germany's occupation of Poland, and the Soviet Union would have on any "Radziwill property?"

(snip only for space)

Thanks for posting all this info, Hunter -- this, and the links a few pages back (interesting in Jackie's will she made a point of noting her affection for her sister, despite the lack of a bequest; a human touch in all that legalese.)

 

11 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

 The thing about Luann is that she is a cool chick that men love to hang out with unlike any of the other ladies. They all reek of desperation. Luann not so much.

I don't think Dorinda reeks of desperation (she reeks of something, however,  when handing her coat to the nearest black man, despite him being dressed in a silk tie and $$$ shirt).  And Tonsely doesn't seem desperate to me - yet. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

This is right on the money. Luann does not suffer fools gladly. She knows that she is a hypocrite and a phony and she can sniff that out in someone else like Ramona looking for a truffle. 

The thing about Luann is that she is a cool chick that men love to hang out with unlike any of the other ladies. They all reek of desperation. Luann not so much.

I think she likes Dorinda because she is pretty authentic. Just a drunken sloppy ho. It is always good to hang out with somebody like that. They make you look good in comparison. 

Luann genuinely likes men and doesn't necessarily see the need to compete with them and put them down.  Even when she saw Adam at the finale last year she was very kind to him and complimented him.  The only man on the show she had an issue with was Mario.  He was crass and insensitive to her and it drove Ramona nuts that Mario was checking her out.   Even Simon, when asked on WWHL, who he would do-said Luann.  He then said Luann not the Countess.    

Dorinda isn't a man killer.  She appreciated her time, however brief with Richard.  Sometimes I scratch my head about she and John but there is a genuine affection between the two of them.  John is there to hold her up when drink gets the better of her.  John gives her space to be with her daughter and she claims to visit John everyday at Madame Paulette's. 

[Martinigirl]

19 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Multiple choice:

Reason married Tom

a) to get a piece of this?

b) to get a piece of this

KFB picks BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

Next week looks as though he gets a piece from the blonde.  Is it worth a penthouse? Not to me!!!!

[BBHN]

Just now, Martinigirl said:

Next week looks as though he gets a piece from the blonde.  Is it worth a penthouse? Not to me!!!!

Nothing desperate about Luann at all lol

[ElDosEquis]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 looLuann genuinely likes men and doesn't necessarily see the need to compete with them and put them down.  Even when she saw Adam at the finale last year she was very kind to him and complimented him.  The only man on the show she had an issue with was Mario.  He was crass and insensitive to her and it drove Ramona nuts that Mario was checking her out.   Even Simon, when asked on WWHL, who he would do-said Luann.  He then said Luann not the Countess.    

Dorinda isn't a man killer.  She appreciated her time, however brief with Richard.  Sometimes I scratch my head about she and John but there is a genuine affection between the two of them.  John is there to hold her up when drink gets the better of her.  John gives her space to be with her daughter and she claims to visit John everyday at Madame Paulette's. 

Mario was an asshole, bereft of any manners/etiquette when it came to women.

I knew he was an fucking asshole when I saw him at a function with the ramonster, they both were talking to someone and I happened to notice him staring at the other woman's tits.

Now, this wasn't the cursory 'let me snag a look' look - this was that creepy lecher gaze that men get when they daydream about doing dirty stuff to women with their peepees. He was a total asshole, go back and watch the seasons he was on - The other thing that was a clue to his twattery was his dismissiveness/mocking of Ramona

 

But, imagine being married to Ramona Singer? 

No can do.

Her constant mile-a-minute chirping and her life in the alternate universe make her difficult to relate to - that and the way she seems to treat the people around her?

[sasha206]

On 6/7/2017 at 11:04 PM, KungFuBunny said:

I might be at a table for one but I didn't find any of the things Ramona said to Bethenny that horrible.

She was a rambling non-sensical drunk.

Bethenny fucked someone on a waterbed, she fucked her way to the top, what else? You use people?

I get that Beth would be bothered by anyone suggesting that her success wasn't self-made.  But what I don't get is why some drunk, nutty as fuck woman saying these things would make Beth up and leave.  For someone whose motto is "zero fucks" she certainly does seem to give many fucks when the slightest criticism is directed her way.  She's yelling whore at LuAnn (seemingly sober), and as Beth noted, Lu stuck around.  

Beth's lack of self-awareness (which she seemed to have before she got wealthy) is now her achilles heel.  You can't say whatever you want to people and not expect to be a target yourself.

Every other word out of her mouth is usually a vulgarity.  I know she's made a name for herself from that vulgar, say anything comments, but when almost every other word out of your mouth is penis, vagina, dick, etc. it gets old.  Add that to her extreme rudeness to anyone who works for her.   I fully expect one of her staff to do some sort of hostile environment lawsuit.

Edited June 12, 2017 by sasha206

[SCS]

11 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Ramona still cracks me up

After Bethenny is already set to leave, Ramona says "Hopefully, we'll get over this."

In the trailer for what's coming soon, it looks like Ramona goes to Mexico which I thought was a "Bethenny" hosted trip for SKG Tequila.

 

This clip demonstrates one of Moaner's biggest oddities (and she's got many):  whyyyyy must she always Get. So. Close? In faces. In laps. This season would improve immeasurably if someone straight-armed her to back away or knocked her off the lap with a pithy, "shove off, bitch!" 

[HunterHunted]

42 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I get that Beth would be bothered by anyone suggesting that her success wasn't self-made.  But what I don't get is why some drunk, nutty as fuck woman saying these things would make Beth up and leave.  For someone whose mottos is "zero fucks" she certainly does seem to give many fucks when the slightest criticism is directed her way.  She's yelling whore at LuAnn, seemingly sober rantings, and as Beth noted, Lu stuck around.  

Beth's lack of self-awareness (which she seemed to have before she got wealthy) is now her achilles heel.  You can't say whatever you want to people and not expect to be a target yourself.

Every other word out of her mouth is usually a vulgarity.  I know she's made a name for herself from that vulgar, say anything comments, but when almost every other word out of your mouth is penis, vagina, dick, etc. it gets old.  Add that to her extreme rudeness to anyone who works for her.   I fully expect one of her staff to do some sort of hostile environment lawsuit.

I think after December Berkshires County, Bethenny knew that this had the possibility of being a drunken all night fight and she wasn't feeling it. Even as Bethenny and Carole were packing to leave, Ramona kept trying to instigate and prolong the fight and then weirdly resolve it. Bethenny was not feeling up to this stupidity.

Penis and vagina aren't vulgar in and of themselves, but her specific use of them when there is no reason to use those words is vulgar. 

[sasha206]

Just now, HunterHunted said:

.

Penis and vagina aren't vulgar in and of themselves, but her specific use of them when there is no reason to us those words is vulgar. 

Yes, that is what I meant. I'm not a prude and I love salty language in general.  You just can't go to the well too often.

[breezy424]

Ya know.  In regard to Beth's pain and torture in regard to her childhood and Beth's pain and torture in her divorce, it comes down to 'perspective'.  Whenever you put something into perspective, there is a part that is going to be 'diminished'.  And that's not always a bad thing, if at all.  Lu saying to Beth that she got a daughter that she loves out of this relationship is putting things into perspective.  Of course, Beth totally ridicules this because perspective doesn't feed into her self pity mentality.  

I think what many of us were saying about Beth's childhood is that she did have an advantage in that she was afforded an education, she was fed, etc.  Many kids don't get that.  Does that 'diminish' her feelings?  Maybe.  But, more importantly, it puts it in perspective.  And I don't think that people can move on until they put things in perspective.  If you don't, you'll end up like Beth who is 'stuck' in a cycle of self pity.  And I have high doubts that this woman will ever find happiness.  Yep, stuff happens in life that can really suck.  Big time.  You can't change the past but you do have a certain opportunity to change the future.  You learn from the past.  Does that mean diminishing it?  Probably but I think that's what you have to do if you want to get to a new place where you can have happiness.

[BBHN]

Quote

This clip demonstrates one of Moaner's biggest oddities (and she's got many):  whyyyyy must she always Get. So. Close? In faces. In laps.

Wasn't there an episode of Seinfeld about a guy who was a "close talker"? Maybe Ramona is like that guy...

Quote

I think what many of us were saying about Beth's childhood is that she did have an advantage in that she was afforded an education, she was fed, etc.  Many kids don't get that.  Does that 'diminish' her feelings?  Maybe.  But, more importantly, it puts it in perspective. 

But so what? You're not diminishing what that person is feeling, you are basically using socio-economic status to just discount what they are allowed to feel.  It has nothing to do with perspective. And given how nasty her divorce has been and seem to be ongoing, it isn't like she can just sweep things under the rug, put on a happy face, and wish the bad away.

[zoeysmom]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Ya know.  In regard to Beth's pain and torture in regard to her childhood and Beth's pain and torture in her divorce, it comes down to 'perspective'.  Whenever you put something into perspective, there is a part that is going to be 'diminished'.  And that's not always a bad thing, if at all.  Lu saying to Beth that she got a daughter that she loves out of this relationship is putting things into perspective.  Of course, Beth totally ridicules this because perspective doesn't feed into her self pity mentality.  

I think what many of us were saying about Beth's childhood is that she did have an advantage in that she was afforded an education, she was fed, etc.  Many kids don't get that.  Does that 'diminish' her feelings?  Maybe.  But, more importantly, it puts it in perspective.  And I don't think that people can move on until they put things in perspective.  If you don't, you'll end up like Beth who is 'stuck' in a cycle of self pity.  And I have high doubts that this woman will ever find happiness.  Yep, stuff happens in life that can really suck.  Big time.  You can't change the past but you do have a certain opportunity to change the future.  You learn from the past.  Does that mean diminishing it?  Probably but I think that's what you have to do if you want to get to a new place where you can have happiness.

I am going to take my response over to the Bethenny thread.

[Ellee]

Have to ask.  Picture from RealityTea.  Does anyone know what this is about? 

[jaync]

Quote

For someone whose motto is "zero fucks" she certainly does seem to give many fucks when the slightest criticism is directed her way.

She's one of the most hypocritical HWs across the whole franchise, full stop.

[Martinigirl]

3 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Have to ask.  Picture from RealityTea.  Does anyone know what this is about? 

After Wedding reception with the cast

[Baltimore Betty]

2 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Have to ask.  Picture from RealityTea.  Does anyone know what this is about? 

Bethenny is telling Luanne that Tom is at that bar "making out with some one right now", Luanne is not believing it and says, "No he is not, he is right here Bethenny!"

Tinsley is wondering where Tom gets his blowouts.

Carole is listening carefully because she is not used to a man speaking in full sentences, her boyfriend just grunts out a few words while he photograph's lettuce.

The guy in the background is Andy Cohen's uncle and this was his Chanukah present, background actor for 2 min on film.

[ElDosEquis]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:00 AM, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

I agree! I would totally watch a Dorinda hostess show !! The only part that bugs me is I believe she said I DID IT NICE ! not made it nice and I did it nice is funnier to me with her angry pout, that was so funny. 

I couldn't use "I DID IT NICE" due to the possibility that Do had trademarked the phrase.

I can't afford a lawsuit and the possibility of having her show up at my front door with her angry mug? 

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I couldn't use "I DID IT NICE" due to the possibility that Do had trademarked the phrase.

I can't afford a lawsuit and the possibility of having her show up at my front door with her angry mug? 

Nahhh, Dorinda blinked and Bethenny trademarked it first! LOL

[jaync]

Quote

Bethenny is telling Luanne that Tom is at that bar "making out with some one right now", Luanne is not believing it and says, "No he is not, he is right here Bethenny!"

Heh, that Beth...she just can't get off Tom's jock.

[HunterHunted]

On 6/11/2017 at 3:18 AM, bravofan27 said:

Carole was super rude to Luann at first. She was appalled that she called herself an Indian (which just means indigenous and there is nothing wrong with it-- there are indians everywhere Native Americans being one type of indigenous people-- there a countless others). She was super offended that Luann asked her friend to make her a dress, since she only makes dresses for important people and an article in a magazine was not worthy of her time, she didn't like she called herself a countess, and she HATED Luann copied her cape. This was back when Carole was dating the Aerosmith guy, and she was much much much more "cool" back then. I remember the guy came out to a vacation spot all the ladies were at, and Carole acted she she couldn't stand any of them, and would roll her eyes to the bf like, "god, they are lame." Now she is dating Adam who I don't think she tries so hard to impress. Maybe at first she was like, "Okay! I'll take Molly! It looks like candy!" And she came to her wits and realized she wasn't a druggie and stopped that nonsense. 

The only person I would say Luann has really been friends with is Dorinda. Luann actively disliked Alex, made fun of Bethanny and still makes fun of Sonja, Luann and Ramona are like two dogs that when they see each just can't wait to play, and after 20 seconds they are ripping each other to shreds. \

I like Luann though! She is what she is, and I appreciate that. Though I do think she is selling herself with Tom a bit, if she is happy, then so be it. Hopefully, he can really afford her and he's not faking it. 

Carole and LuAnn did not mesh well at all from the beginning. I believe that Carole found LuAnn's use of her Countess courtesy title to be pretentious bullshit, which it is as is Carole's Princess title. They are two countries that no longer recognize nobility. Carole didn't use or disclose her honorific until randomly at one of Andy's parties. He'd known her for a while, but didn't know this about her. This is the fundamental disconnect between Carole and LuAnn. She thinks the title is nonsense and doesn't use it. LuAnn loves the title and loved using it. 

The Indian argument is really very nuanced. Carole worked ABC news. I'm sure that Native American was probably their preferred term in their style guide. However, there has been a schism since. Some prefer Native American. Others prefer Native, Indian, American Indian, Indigenous, or the name of their tribe only. Carole was wrong to scold LuAnn about how she would like to be referred. However, LuAnn then proceeded to "war whoop" so let's not pretend than LuAnn was caught up on the subtleties of indigenous naming issue.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/culture/social-issues/blackhorse-do-you-prefer-native-american-or-american-indian-6-prominent-voices-respond/

Additionally, Carole wasn't up to date indigenous name issue so she needs to have several seats. I can't imagine any subject that I would speak with such authority when I was 15 years behind on the topic.

The dress issue is that LuAnn was Carole's guest as Carole visited her friends Naeem and Ranjana Khan. LuAnn had barely met them. They'd spent a nice couple of hours together. LuAnn asked Naeem for a, and this really important, FREE dress for a Life & Style shoot. LuAnn phrased it in a way where she was doing Naeem a favor and would get him some publicity. Carole thought it was rude to request this while LuAnn was a guest in their home; this typically not how dress requests are done and put Naeem on the spot. LuAnn really should have gone through his PR department. Finally, Carole's point about all of the important people that Naeem dresses was that LuAnn wearing one of his dresses is in no way comparable to the publicity he receives when he puts a dress on Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Jennifer Lopez, Penelope Cruz, Katy Perry, Kate Hudson, Michelle Obama, or Kate Middleton. So LuAnn's couching it like it was a favor she was doing Naeem is and was complete nonsense.

As to the other things, Carole absolutely thought she was better and cooler than LuAnn and the rest of the other women. The cape thing was utterly foolishness and harping on it made Carole seem like a petty dipshit. The irony of Carole is that she hated LuAnn's pretentious snobbery all while she was being a cooler than thou aloof snob.

Edited June 13, 2017 by HunterHunted

[ElDosEquis]

21 hours ago, Trooper York said:

This is right on the money. Luann does not suffer fools gladly. She knows that she is a hypocrite and a phony and she can sniff that out in someone else like Ramona looking for a truffle. 

The thing about Luann is that she is a cool chick that men love to hang out with unlike any of the other ladies. They all reek of desperation. Luann not so much.

I think she likes Dorinda because she is pretty authentic. Just a drunken sloppy ho. It is always good to hang out with somebody like that. They make you look good in comparison. 

Lulu comes off as the "Why not, I have never done THAT before" kind of broad.

She'd probably just as much fun hunting for grunion as she would going to the opera?

She is an attractive woman, but her 'coolness' factor - her ability to go with the flow and let things slide off her back - elevate her to the top of the list.

Women like Lu get a bad rap because of their relations with men - from fucking to friendships - because she has figured out how to be 'one of the guys' - and other people look at that as a bad thing?

 

[Martinigirl]

....and she has the voice of an angel

[BBHN]

Quote

Bethenny is telling Luanne that Tom is at that bar "making out with some one right now", Luanne is not believing it and says, "No he is not, he is right here Bethenny!"

"No he is not, he is right here Bethenny! I mean, this isn't the bar at the Regency...or the bathroom..."

[mostlylurking]

On 6/10/2017 at 11:50 PM, Happy Camper said:

Nah, not end of story. Saying someone's pain doesn't count because someone else's pain was worse or whatever doesn't work. Some people grew up happy whether they are rich or poor, some people grew up miserable whether they are rich or poor.

I didn't say that though.  I said "Of course you can be wealthy and be in an absolutely horrible situation, especially as a child.  But if I had to pick between two evils, I sure as hell would pick that over the same exact horrible situation while being poor."

 

And I stand behind my main point - I have never heard a poor person say money doesn't matter, wonderful childhood or otherwise.  It does matter and there is no shame in saying it.  It just does.

[mostlylurking]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:03 AM, film noire said:

I haven't seen anybody say it doesn't count. What I have seen people say is that Bethenny seems to dismiss the value of having had a safety net, one abused kids living in poverty don't have. 

Exactly.  Of course it counts.  What is so wrong with admitting/acknowledging if you had help or certain privileges along the way?  I mean if you grow up with money or without money it's not your doing either way, you were born into a certain situation.  What's wrong with just owning said situation?

[BBHN]

Quote

But if I had to pick between two evils, I sure as hell would pick that over the same exact horrible situation while being poor

I'm not sure how much of a difference money can make if you have a shitty childhood. You might be able to temporarily feel better because you have material things and access to them, but that won't help you out in the long run.