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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Eyes High

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in Game Of Thrones

Meredith Quill
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Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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bijoux

bijoux

26 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

I wanted Jaime’s redemption too, his and Theon’s. I got it with Theon. But, I think jaime’s story is very real. Many people try to change, They make progress, they grow. Then, sadly many backslide and go back to who they were. It makes me said, but its real, and it doesnt make me angry

The one thing I can't let go about Jaime is the 'I never cared about the people, innocent or not' bit. Said by the guy forever marked as Kingslayer his entire adult life because he didn't want to see King's Landing burn, and who, much more recently, went North to fight for the living. Unless there is some cut scene in which Jaime proclaims he just said and did all that for shits and giggles, it really makes no sense to me.

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Meredith Quill
Meredith Quill

Enjoy: I laughed. 🤣

spaceghostess
spaceghostess

^This.^ Thank you.  Months ago I posted that both Dany and Jon were at the top of my death list, but it never occurred to me that (a) she'd die crazy or (b) he'd kill her because she was crazy. Y

dragonsbite
dragonsbite

oh thank god. y'all have stopped arguing about Sansa.

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JennyMominFL

JennyMominFL

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

The one thing I can't let go about Jaime is the 'I never cared about the people, innocent or not' bit. Said by the guy forever marked as Kingslayer his entire adult life because he didn't want to see King's Landing burn, and who, much more recently, went North to fight for the living. Unless there is some cut scene in which Jaime proclaims he just said and did all that for shits and giggles, it really makes no sense to me.

Thats fair. My assumption was that he was doing something similar to what Tyrion did with Shea. He made himself seem as horrible as humanly possible . In this case to make it easier for  Brienne to let go of him

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bijoux

bijoux

4 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Thats fair. My assumption was that he was doing something similar to what Tyrion did with Shea. He made himself seem as horrible as humanly possible . In this case to make it easier for  Brienne to let go of him

This was actually from Jaime's conversation with Tyrion in the last episode. His conversation with Brienne actually worked for me as you describe at the time. I just felt the follow up didn't deliver. 

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Stallion12

Stallion12

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Not always.

Game of Thrones was sold to 170 countries. In Germany it was aired on Amazon. In the UK it is aired on Sky Atlantic and other streaming sites. 

Go ahead, cancel that subscription. HBO already made their billions and they have moved on. 

This whole business model is subscriptions, they don't air commercials for products.

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JennyMominFL

JennyMominFL

(edited)

I just rewatched s5 E7. Dany has a conversation with Dario where he tells her she should gather all of the Masters  good and bad the day of the great game  and slaughter them. She says she is a Queen not a butcher. He tells her that all rulers are either the butchers or the meat.  IIRC that doesn’t end well in Meereen. I cant help but think that hasn’t weighed on her decision making now.

Edited by JennyMominFL
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LadyPenelope

LadyPenelope

I am okay with this season too. The plot is a bit rushed and there are a few things I would have done differently, but overall I like it. At the end of the day, the story doesn’t belong to me. If I want something to end exactly how I choose, I will write it myself.

...Of course, my favourite characters got exactly the ending I would have chosen, so it’s easy for me to say. 

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Snowball II

Snowball II

Going back to the Not So Long Night, for a moment...

Why didn't the show have a beloved character turn into a White Walker?  Why didn't they take advantage of the emotional impact that would have had on the audience?

Yeah, yeah, I know Edd and Lyanna were WW's, for a second, but we didn't see them do anything, and they weren't major characters.  I feel like this was an opportunity the showrunners could have taken to make the battle so much more interesting, and they just didn't take it.  And I will never understand why.

On rewatch, it isn't Dany's arc that is going to frustrate me, it's all this Long Night/Night King/White Walker bullshit.  Hell, I might as well just FF through it, knowing exactly how it turns out.  People are having all kinds of opinions and feelings about Dany burning down King's Landing, and I totally get that, but I'm still stuck on how badly the battle with the Night King was handled.  That, for me, is the much bigger WTF moment of the series, and it's what truly made this final season such an uneven mess.  I always figured Dany would break bad, but I never thought the WW threat would be brushed aside, like they smacked a bothersome fly that was buzzing around their heads.   I don't know, this is just a bunch of rambling on the "eve" of the final episode.  I'm so confused as to what happened, with this show.

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Minneapple

Minneapple

18 minutes ago, yowsah1 said:

This, they will muddle through the way every publicly held corporation muddles through when it doesn't deliver a promised return on investment - a bunch of people will get fired (hopefully just the CEOs who greenlit the money-losing thing that happened) and the company will start cutting back on expenses, by, say, cutting the budgets of or shelving certain guaranteed-to-be-wildly-expensive prequels.

Oh my God. Nobody is losing their job over Game of Thrones. Especially not the fucking CEO. And, even if there has been a backlash this season, the show has made a fuckton of money for HBO and will continue to make a fuckton of money for HBO. The person who greenlit the show probably got a promotion a long time ago.

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Oscirus

Oscirus

5 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Why didn't the show have a beloved character turn into a White Walker?  Why didn't they take advantage of the emotional impact that would have had on the audience?

Cuz they're more attached to the spectacle and less to the emotional cost.  Probs wouldn't have really worked anyway with the lack of light. Would've loved to have seen wight summer

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QuinnM

QuinnM

1 hour ago, Stallion12 said:

This whole business model is subscriptions, they don't air commercials for products.

And based on this article the spike and subsequent cancelations are an accepted reality to the Game of Thrones series.  So HBO won’t notice the protest cancelations.  I’m sure they would like folks to keep paying but they are expecting them to cancel. Just like they have done every other season.

Quote

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/04/09/winter-is-coming-for-hbo-subscriptions-once-game-o.aspx

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BooBear

BooBear

(edited)
44 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Oh my God. Nobody is losing their job over Game of Thrones. Especially not the fucking CEO. And, even if there has been a backlash this season, the show has made a fuckton of money for HBO and will continue to make a fuckton of money for HBO. The person who greenlit the show probably got a promotion a long time ago.

The most people can hope for is when another beloved series comes to an end and the executives are reading over the ending they say... lets be careful here.

I am up for that.

Also, I want D&D not to have quite the reception they might have otherwise. 

Edited by BooBear
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Soup333

Soup333

16 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

And based on this article the spike and subsequent cancelations are an accepted reality to the Game of Thrones series.  So HBO won’t notice the protest cancelations.  I’m sure they would like folks to keep paying but they are expecting them to cancel. Just like they have done every other season.

Speaking only for myself, I’d have kept my subscription going to watch Big Little Lies. I didn’t cancel in between the seasons even though it was a long break and I don’t watch a lot of programs on HBO. I cancelled and will either wait to watch BIg Little Lies or perhaps never watch it. They’re losing out on money they would have otherwise had. I don’t think we can say they won’t notice simply because we don’t know how many people will actually walk away. 

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tabularasa

tabularasa

I'm so sad, it's my last post in the spoilers..

There is no ending I'd have loved, quality went downhill but I'm going to miss the show, it became iconic after all, the catchphrases etc.

I even *gasp* enjoyed season 7 and was rooting for a pregnant Dany and all the prophecies. We were all sure about the boatsex baby, as cheesy as it'd be. I saw no progression of characters and their arcs.

I wish we lost more characters in episode 3 instead. I'm happy that Theon got a great redemption act. Jamie - not so much. Jon killing Dany is terrible, Jamie tried to save Cersei and they died together yet Jon turned the mother of dragons down as a lover. Seriously he knows nothing. D&D didn't sell their love in season 8 at all. The show made me hate Jon, he's useless. As almost everyone. The happiest ending goes to Sam whom I hate. Oh well.

What about all the prophecies? We'll never get answers, right?

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catrice2

catrice2

Worse, even though Dany correctly pointed out to Jon that Sansa betrayed him she will get away with it because she was "right" about Dany.  Doesn't matter that he should no longer trust her....what she did set some of this in motion.  With 80 minutes and having to kill Dany, crown Bran, and whatever other craziness is going on  they won't have time to discuss her 

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tabularasa

tabularasa

(edited)

Yeah, Sansa swore to never tell anyone. It's not that she even loves and Tyrion that much but she didn't like Dany from the start and didn't show respect. Margaery would never do that. At first I was happy Jon got to know soon, they didn't show the aftermath of that relevation. Dany was grieving, the north showed her hostility (Sansa *coughs*) after all she did. She didn't even show them the signs of being "mad". She wanted the throne yet Jon had to tell in a crucial time. The rest is on Sansa. Somehow we don't blame Sansa for this. Sansa should have predicted it wouldn't end well. She kind of lost my respect. Jon knew how much Dany cared for the throne and fell in love with her but he betrayed her very quickly and was indifferent to her suffering. Dany was left alone. Even Cersei had better ending.

Edited by tabularasa
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Constantinople

Constantinople

(edited)

We've all seen the photo from tonight's episode where we see Daenerys from the back, standing before her troops.

Here's the accompanying dialogue
 

Quote

Daenerys: From this day on, the official language of San Marcos The Seven Kingdoms will be Swedish.

Daenerys: Silence!

Daenerys: In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!

Jon Snow: What's the Spanish High Valyrian word for straitjacket?

Tyrion: The power has driven him her mad.

Jon Snow: We must have a new leader.

Edited by Constantinople
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Francie

Francie

(edited)
1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

And based on this article the spike and subsequent cancelations are an accepted reality to the Game of Thrones series.  So HBO won’t notice the protest cancelations.  I’m sure they would like folks to keep paying but they are expecting them to cancel. Just like they have done every other season.

They’re talking about people like me. I cut the cable cord years ago, and I typically impose upon myself a rule of limiting my monthly subscriptions to 3, including Amazon Prime. So, typically, I choosing which to jettison: Hulu, Netflix, or HBO. My typical practice is to pick up HBO just prior to GoT premiering and ending it later. I typically wait until the DVDs come out, and I won’t be doing that in this instance (unless something dramatically changes, and I’m all “hell yes! I need to see this again and again!”). 

So, I get that HBO is already braced for this. I get that they get a ton of money through a lot of sources, including internationally, through merchandising, and DVD sales. 

Be that as it may, HBO was already bracing for the typical hit. And now, on top of that, they may be getting a sizeable protest cancellation. Maybe not. But if you’re already trying to figure out how to MAXIMIZE profits, and already recognizing that, if history tracks, you’re about to face a 76% decrease in newly added subscriptions, it has to make one’s stomach churn at least a little to know that that figure might go above 80%. Or that longstanding subscribers — the ones who aren’t just tuning in to watch the season and disappear into the wind like Keyser Soze — are going to actually pick up their remotes and cancel when inertia had kept them there for years, has got to hurt at least a little bit. 

It’s not make or break. But it’s at least something they need to be aware of. And, again, I say that without sanctioning any kind of protest action. I don’t think that’ll amount to a hill of beans. But this isn’t a totally black and white situation, because this isn’t about whether HBO is making tons of money. This is about just how much money they are making.  

Edited by Francie
catrice2

catrice2

What gets me is that when the Stark's needed Dany's army and her dragons surely they had heard of her burning people before and what happened with the slave owners, and they were o.k. with it.  Sure Sansa showed some resistance, but in the end as long as they saved Winterfell and their way of life they ultimately went along with hit, but them when they got what they wanted and they were all o.k. she was terrible...after losing Jorah and 1/2 of the Unsullied and most of the Dothraki...

Regardless of whether or not the White Walkers would ultimately be everyone's problem...at that time they were the Stark's problem because they were coming for Winterfell and Bran and she stepped up. All of them have killed except Bran...(I think?) but they get to be judgmental....

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Minneapple

Minneapple

(edited)
19 minutes ago, tabularasa said:

Yeah, Sansa swore to never tell anyone. It's not that she even loves and Tyrion that much but she didn't like Dany from the start and didn't show respect. Margaery would never do that. At first I was happy Jon got to know soon, they didn't show the aftermath of that relevation. Dany was grieving, the north showed her hostility (Sansa *coughs*) after all she did. She didn't even show them the signs of being "mad". She wanted the throne yet Jon had to tell in a crucial time. The rest is on Sansa. Somehow we don't blame Sansa for this. Sansa should have predicted it wouldn't end well. She kind of lost my respect. Jon knew how much Dany cared for the throne and fell in love with her but he betrayed her very quickly and was indifferent to her suffering. Dany was left alone. Even Cersei had better ending.

I know we like to blame Sansa for a lot of things including climate change and the economy, but she didn't burn everyone in King's Landing. That's all on Dany. 

Edited by Minneapple
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Brn2bwild

Brn2bwild

7 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

What gets me is that when the Stark's needed Dany's army and her dragons surely they had heard of her burning people before and what happened with the slave owners, and they were o.k. with it.  Sure Sansa showed some resistance, but in the end as long as they saved Winterfell and their way of life they ultimately went along with hit, but them when they got what they wanted and they were all o.k. she was terrible...after losing Jorah and 1/2 of the Unsullied and most of the Dothraki...

Tyrion was okay with it when it was happening in Meereen.  I guess as long as the victims were anonymous brown people, he could ignore it and head off to Westeros while Meereen still lay in tatters.

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lucindabelle

lucindabelle

(edited)
3 hours ago, chrisvee said:

Rowling told Rickman what ‘always’ meant which is a pretty big detail that allowed him to put nuance into Snape.

Surely something similar would have been possible with EC.

I think keeping actors uninformed of the trajectory of their character arcs robs the audience.

So much this.

i can’t stand it when writers get all eureka and what if and change the past, it always shows.

broken record I know but recent horrific examples included This Is Us where a brother who died in Vietnam was alive. Twist! Shocker!

Except: they hadnt planned it. So in the past when dad talked about his dead brother he was sincere. Not even an ounce of nuance.

or same show, where were told Beth had a whole tragic ballet dancer manquee past which has never been alluded to at all. Seriously not one throwaway line about dance or a wistful look at a poster.

or on the Americans, where a teen discovers his whole family has been killed- we see his horrified reaction when he opens the hotel door and sees them dead. Nobody but us in tv land saw him.

then following season writers decided the teen was the killer. Which the actor DID NOT KNOW when he played that scene.

so now he wasn’t just a killer but  a seriously amazing actor.

rowling clearly always knew snape was really good- book readers saw it here from book one when he saved Harry. It never felt like she just invented the past with Lily at the end- it was ALWAYS there.

thats how you do it right. 

If they’ve known for seasons and seasons about a Danys potential for madness and evil they should have written it in, confided in her, and asked her to sometimes play unreasonable. They did t.

Edited by lucindabelle
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Stallion12

Stallion12

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

And based on this article the spike and subsequent cancelations are an accepted reality to the Game of Thrones series.  So HBO won’t notice the protest cancelations.  I’m sure they would like folks to keep paying but they are expecting them to cancel. Just like they have done every other season.

They need subscriptions to function, it's there whole business model, I guess it depends on how many don't return.

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hypnotoad

hypnotoad

Quote

Tyrion was okay with it when it was happening in Meereen.

And of course then he believed in her as a queen and now suddenly he's terribly frightened of her (I mean he admitted that to Sansa long before Dany went all mad queen). I didn't seem him being afraid of her or the dragons in Meereen but whatever.

I wish Jon had talked to Jaimie about the incest thing:

Jon: I cannot be with Dany - she's my aunt.

Jaimie: Oh pish posh aunt and nephew ... that's nothing. Twincest is the bestest love of all! Totally normal and romantic!

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Stallion12

Stallion12

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Oh my God. Nobody is losing their job over Game of Thrones. Especially not the fucking CEO. And, even if there has been a backlash this season, the show has made a fuckton of money for HBO and will continue to make a fuckton of money for HBO. The person who greenlit the show probably got a promotion a long time ago.

If it costs them money due to the outrage , you'll see a turnover. All depends on how this ending is received. 

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SeanC

SeanC

14 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

They need subscriptions to function, it's there whole business model, I guess it depends on how many don't return.

Don’t return for what?

GOT is over.  It would be impossible to judge how many people were just dropping HBO on that basis and how many were doing it as some kind of protest.

Which I don’t really believe would ever be a widespread phenomenon, anyway — HBO’s coming attractions either interest you or they don’t.  Nobody who’s a Barry fan is going to deny themselves Barry because of dissatisfaction with a wholly unrelated show.

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Stallion12

Stallion12

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Don’t return for what?

GOT is over.  It would be impossible to judge how many people were just dropping HBO on that basis and how many were doing it as some kind of protest.

Which I don’t really believe would ever be a widespread phenomenon, anyway — HBO’s coming attractions either interest you or they don’t.  Nobody who’s a Barry fan is going to deny themselves Barry because of dissatisfaction with a wholly unrelated show.

They have other shows, but if they don't return for the prequel, then HBO will notice the hit.

That said with the crack down on commentary, HBO is clearly doing damage control, one more hour till we find out. 

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anamika

anamika

Well fellow spoilers and speculation folks! This is it. Series finale and goodbye to this thread. Today it ends. I have enjoyed our discussions, debates, arguments and while several of us have had differences of opinions, it's been a fun time. I think a few of us have been on here for quite some time and it's been great discussing this show, the books, the mythology and everything about the series with you guys!

Ultimately a lot of the foreshadowing, mythology and character development meant nothing on the show as D&D rushed to the end prioritizing subverted expectations and spectacle over the characters and story. But it is an ending - to both the show and the books. For this series and for the characters I have known for some 20 years ago. Good bye to them and and to this fictional world. 

Cheers!

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Heckler52317

Heckler52317

(edited)

Last minute (hour) speculation:

Jaime and Cersei are found- they survived the collapse! But not the sword wounds (Jaime) or Ellaria's choking grip- the collapse freed her and having been kept well fed she had the strength to choke out the former queen. 

At the big assembly (seen in the preview) Arya fingers her dagger, stops, looks pensive and mutters "no, Sandor was right" and slips away.

As the dignitaries are all assembled, Tyrion says "I must speak, my Queen..." Daenerys stops him- "I will speak first"

SHE declares John the rightful heir, Aegon x of his name etc. She boards Drogon with a flourish and flies off as the Unsullied and Dothrak armies board Yara's ships and sail home to Essos.

John tells everyone who will listen "but I don't want it". 

Edited by Heckler52317
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Lillith

Lillith

I'm glad Jaime's flippant remark about not caring about the small folk grated on others as much as it did me. Him feeling compelled to return to Cersei's side so she did't die alone made some sense (though it still should have been fleshed out better) but that comment to me is what ruined his arc. 

For the rest, I wouldn't mind the outcomes as much if the journeys to them made better sense. 

It's been an honor and a priviledge. 

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Lady Iris

Lady Iris

I’ve been an ages long lurker on this thread. Very occasionally I’d post something but this was always a go-to thread for me to catch up on and see what you all were posting. As a lurker I want to thank you all for the information, insights and opinions especially in waiting the long time it took to get here for this final season. It’s been a real pleasure and I tip my proverbial cap to y’all. 

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Lemuria

Lemuria

(edited)
2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Worse, even though Dany correctly pointed out to Jon that Sansa betrayed him she will get away with it because she was "right" about Dany.  Doesn't matter that he should no longer trust her....what she did set some of this in motion.  With 80 minutes and having to kill Dany, crown Bran, and whatever other craziness is going on  they won't have time to discuss her 

I agree about Sansa, but it wouldn't matter how much time they had:  D&D absolutely lo-v-e Sansa, so she will get everything she wanted despite the sheer stupidity of her behavior on any number of occasions, and the fact that she betrayed a member of her family more than once, as well as all the wildlings who died because she wanted to be Queen of the May.  

That's a big factor in my dissatisfaction with what I've read about the ending.  D&D appear to have dumped the entire NK/WW story, all the prophecies, the whole history that went into the elements of that story (including Rhaegar's obsession with it)--and with it, marginalized Jon--to make the political squabbling over power the be all and end all of the show.  Which is exactly the opposite of the point that Martin appears to be making:  that the political intrigue is stupid and useless when an Apocalypse is brewing.  It seems, tho, that D&D never liked the supernatural elements at all; only the intrigue appealed to them.

Based on the spoilers (and the eps to date this season), this was the wrong story for them to get involved in.

I wonder if Sansa will even care that her entire family will now scatter and leave her alone.  I also wonder if anyone will consider her behavior treacherous and will avoid allying with her.  If there were any justice, that would be the case.

Edited by Lemuria
Grammar counts
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AuntiePam

AuntiePam

3 hours ago, Fiver said:

On rewatch, it isn't Dany's arc that is going to frustrate me, it's all this Long Night/Night King/White Walker bullshit.  Hell, I might as well just FF through it, knowing exactly how it turns out.  People are having all kinds of opinions and feelings about Dany burning down King's Landing, and I totally get that, but I'm still stuck on how badly the battle with the Night King was handled. 

I was disappointed that the battle took an entire episode, when there were all these personal relationships and character arcs to deal with.  It's true that the WW threat was incredibly serious, but I think we got enough of it throughout the 8 seasons.  We had the attack in S1E1 which started it all, the attack on Bran, the attack on the Rangers when Sam killed one, the incredible Hardhome battle, the terrible idea that resulted in the zombie dragon -- I think we had enough Walker/Night King stuff.

I don't have any good guesses about what will happen, but I'd be fine with Dany mounting Drogon and flying away.  I think we'd be less surprised if a less child-like actress had been cast.  She's just as soft and sweet-looking now as she was ten years ago, and that colors our impression of her, how she should behave. 

Snowball II

Snowball II

16 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

I was disappointed that the battle took an entire episode, when there were all these personal relationships and character arcs to deal with.  It's true that the WW threat was incredibly serious, but I think we got enough of it throughout the 8 seasons.  We had the attack in S1E1 which started it all, the attack on Bran, the attack on the Rangers when Sam killed one, the incredible Hardhome battle, the terrible idea that resulted in the zombie dragon -- I think we had enough Walker/Night King stuff.

I think it would have made more sense if the big threat they had talked about for eight seasons affected the rest of Westeros, and not just Winterfell.  As it is, there isn't even a reason for the rest of the 7K to believe it actually happened; they could just brush it off as more crazy myths from the North.  I am also a much bigger fan of the the personal relationships and the political intrigue, but if a show is going to say that a supernatural threat is what ALL of the characters should be worried about, they ought to show that.  This final season has been all about telling, and not showing, which grinds my gears. #petergriffinvoice

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Couver

Couver

Thank you everyone! It has been a ride! Lots of ups and downs.

I avoided leaks for the first few seasons but as I got invested I needed to know what happened so I could brace myself. This was especially true for any dire wolf and dragon deaths. It was also nice to see a lot of people here felt the same way about that 😂.

I'll always appreciate what this show did for the genre. It really made fantasy mainstream the way Marvel made superheroes.

As a lifelong nerd it originally annoyed me because we nerds have suffered for our fandoms 😄 But I'm glad these genres are reaching more people now.

I was disappointed in this season but I'm hoping once the dust settles people can let the actors and show runners be. It is what it is.

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Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill

Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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