Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Bali]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

D&D don't believe in dialogue this season, not for anyone (except Peter and Lena of course.)  They did an action series for the finale.  No insight into characters, motivations, needs, decision making were needed. 

Assholes.

They really should have turned this show over to people who weren't burnt out.

OK- and here is what KILLS me about that: Episode 1 of the Season was spent putting everyone in place. There was a lot of talking. And there were all kinds of complaints that there is too much to do, we didn't need this episode, too talky talky. Blah! I personally loved 1.

Who knew then that we would wind up LONGING for the talky talky?

[Couver]

59 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

For crying out loud, it's not Sansa's fault that Dany fails and dies.  Geesh. 

The 3ER does not die.

I didn't say it was her fault. That's why I said she lucks out. She ends up the only 'ruler' with a fairly loyal base of people following her. She also has good ties to this ruling council. The show has also gone out of its way to paint her as savvy and self-interested. It's not a stretch to see her exploit her family ties to Bran and relationship with Tyrion.

If this council was breaking the wheel then the North should be leaderless too. But we know they aren't since Bron is installed at Highgarden. And Gendry and Brienne etc. Nothing has really changed except a vote by highborn people that installs more highborn people into power.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Couver

[Stallion12]

For me the whole thing is a failure. But I will give Martin the doubt and let him tell it.

[onyxrose81]

41 minutes ago, Couver said:

I didn't say it was her fault. That's why I said she lucks out. She ends up the only 'ruler' with a fairly loyal base of people following her. She also has good ties to this ruling council. The show has also gone out of its way to paint her as savvy and self-interested. It's not a stretch to see her exploit her family ties to Bran and relationship with Tyrion.

If this council was breaking the wheel then the North should be leaderless too. But we know they aren't since Bron is installed at Highgarden. And Gendry and Brienne etc. Nothing has really changed except a vote by highborn people that installs more highborn people into power.

Thank you.  To achieve democracy, you have to first take away a lot of the power of the nobility.  That is not the case here.  I think casual viewers will not think too deeply about it and think that they're going towards democracy but that's completely not the case.  But whatever.  As long as Eagle-eyed Bran is King.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Tyrion was probably the best "hand of the King" Westeros ever had (book Tyrion) and now he's lived as a slave and among the poor.  By the time the books get there, he could still have skills in diplomacy, and he's always cared about all people, not just rich people, so he would be a good choice.

Tyrion wouldn't be anywhere close to the best Hand Westeros ever had -- not especially his fault, since he was only ever really responsible for the city itself for a few months in wartime, but all the same.

7 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I also have concerns about the slave cities Daenerys liberated being able to remain free from slavery after she’s gone. But who am I kidding? No one cares about those people. 

From the sound of it, Grey Worm will be leading a large Unsullied/Dothraki force on a continued offensive against whatever slave powers remain in Essos (I guess they probably mean laces like Lys and Myr?), so I'd say the Bay of Dragons will be fine.

[Minneapple]

16 hours ago, rmontro said:

I know the Starks are the heroes of the story obviously, but it kind of annoys me the way they all come up smelling like a rose at the end, when so many others have lost so much.  Nepotism!  And yes, Jon gets a good ending, because he gets to kill the Ultimate Evil (according the story) Daenerys, and be a hero to all.  I'm not convinced he loves her, and even if he did, I doubt that he does by the time he kills her.  Conveniently, his brother gets to slide in there and take the throne.  The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, honestly.  And it's not a bittersweet taste, it's more like gargling with sewer water.

The title for the last book was originally "A Time For Wolves." What did people think was going to happen? Of course the Starks will rise up and get a good ending. And, it's not as though they haven't suffered or lost anything at all. 

Just like the complaints about how Cersei got a romantically tragic ending with Jaime. If the past seven seasons are anything to go by, OF COURSE Cersei was going to get a tragically romantic ending. With Jaime. Because the writers love Cersei and they love Jaime/Cersei. Nothing was going to change this season.

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

In case I didn't make this pretty clear?

I am in no way happy with this ending or this season ON THE SHOW.

 I am pretty happy with this ending for the books, because I can "see" how GRRM will get to this ending, and it doesn't surprise me.  I think with everyone having POV chapters, we will understand what the show completely failed to provide, motivations, context, and fleshed out characters who act in consistent ways.  People can be both heroes and villains, depending on circumstances, people can make errors, be emotional, be selfish, be altruistic, be romantic, be a cynic, all in the space of a lifetime or a few years.  GRRM will write it (if he ever does) so that it does make sense, and is beautiful and ugly both. 

 The showrunners?  Failed.  The story doesn't fail for me though, in skilled hands, it will work.

I agree with all of this. If this is the general direction that GRRM goes, I'm pleased. I mean, if he ever writes it, which he probably won't, but whatever. The show failed at it, but also, whatever. The show has been uneven at best since season 5.

[yowsah1]

So, I was summarizing the horrific spoilers that were purportedly leaks that we all have been discussing for another message board and I just couldn't resist commenting and snarking on them as I was doing so, I thought I would share my comments and snark:

*Tyrion, Davos, and Jon come across a gold hand sticking out from the rubble as they walk through the streets of a destroyed King's Landing. They identify it as Jaime's. They pull away more rubble and uncover the bodies of Cersei and Jaime.

MY SNARK: BLOODY HELL WHUT?!?! CERSEI AND JAIME WERE IN THE VERY BOTTOM OF A MULTI-STORY STRUCTURE (seriously, the thing is what? 30 stories high?) THAT COLLAPSED INTO IT'S FOUNDATIONS!!!! NOW THEY'RE 6 INCHES BELOW THE SURFACE?!?! WTF?!?! HOW DID THEY GET THERE?!?!

*They then come across Grey Worm and his soldiers executing what's left of the Lannister forces. Jon tries to stop them. Grey Worm says it's Queen's orders and keeps right on.

MY COMMENT: This seems redundant, it's already been well-established that Jon has no leadership abilities and can't stop shit, plus he already saw Grey Worm and his men attack soldiers after they have surrendered, but I guess he needs more motivation to kill her...?

*Dany, with Tyrion behind her, gives a big Nuremberg-style speech where she says she has freed the people of King's Landing and now she will go on to FREE THE WORLD!!!

MY SNARK: "NOW WITNESS THE POWER OF THIS FULLY ARMED AND OPERATIONAL DEATH STAR!!!!!"

*Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her she killed thousands of innocent people, rips off his Hand pin and throws it on the ground. Dany has him thrown in prison.

MY SNARK: And she doesn't kill him straight off because....? Is she only crazy, evil, and murderous when the plot requires it?

*Big confrontation scene where Jon enters the throne room with Dany sitting on the Iron Throne.

MY SNARK: Shouldn't the Iron Throne be a pile of slag? Even if it didn't melt in the firestorm, shouldn't it be under a ton of rubble?

*Dany claims that everything she has done has been for the people...

MY SNARK: Nice try finally giving her character some motivation, writers, especially after 5 solid episodes of her going through a crucial to the plot heel turn with no POV whatsoever, but I suspect it's too little, too late...

*... Jon pretends that he has been totally swayed by her and has come over to her side and tricks her into letting her guard down then as soon as her back is turned he stabs her to death.

MY SNARK: JON SNOW?!?! FUCKING JON "TOO HONORABLE TO LIE" SNOW DOES THIS?!?! ARE YOU SHITTING ME?! Also, wasn't there a big scene in episode 5 where Dany was all like "Et tu Brute" about how he had betrayed her along with everybody else? Why is she seeing him with no guards about?

*Drogon comes in, stands over Dany's body, then blasts the Iron Throne into slag with his dragon breath, picks her up and flies off with her to parts unknown.

MY SNARK: I guess he was off buffing his claws when his mother was getting killed. And he's not blasting the man who murdered his mother to cinders immediately because... ? So basically they are going to have him just exit stage left because they can't figure out any way to tie up this dangling plot thread that wouldn't be even more stupid.

*Grey Worm apparently finally gets off his ass and arrests Jon and throws him in to prison along with Tyrion.

MY SNARK: And he's not immediately cutting down the traitor who just murdered his Queen because....?

*Suddenly, out of nowhere, a Ruling Council shows up, led by Sansa!

MY SNARK: Because, of course, the most important political event in all Westerosi history so far happens off screen. I'm going to be generous and assume this is the payoff to the setup of Varys sending off all those letters, but the time frame here is ridiculous.

*The Council demands that Grey Worm turn over Jon, but he refuses. Tyrion proposes that the new king decide what happens to Jon.

MY SNARK: Jon is the new king, you dipshit!

*Sam, is somehow part of the Council, pipes up with a suggestion that, hey, why doesn't the Council elect the new King?

MY SNARK: The Author-Insert Character invents constitutional monarchy. Please.

*So the Council all puts their head together and votes, and the new King is... (drum roll) BRAN STARK!!!!

MY SNARK: "I feel a sudden disturbance in the fandom. As if millions of jaws hit the floor at once..."

*Bran picks Tyrion as his Hand.

MY SNARK: "... and he lived HAPPILY EVER AFTER...". Also, WHY?!?!?!

*Tyrion tells Jon is punishment is to go back to the Wall and lead the Night Watch.

MY SNARK: So basically, the trial scene from OKLAHOMA! Also... what Wall? What Night Watch? The Night King is dead! Why do you still need a... GAHHHHH!!!!

*Grey Worm is cool with this for some reason, so he and the Unsullied and the Dothraki leave on Dothraki ships to go off and liberate slave cities.

MY SNARK: ASS-PULL!!! ASS-PULL!!! ASS-PULL!!!

*Tyrion leads the Council in their first official meeting as Jon says goodbye to Sasha and Arya. Arya says she's going to leave Westeros and go off exploring west of Westeros. This leads to a final montage with Sansa ruling Winterfell, Arya on a ship heading towards the West, and Jon joyously reunited with Tormund and Ghost.

MY SNARK: Are they going to have an upbeat Bollywood musical number to close it out as well? Or maybe they'll just have a final scene of Drogon flying off with Dany's body as the strains of STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN swell on the soundtrack...

[onyxrose81]

With the snark, it just got even more depressing.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

15 minutes ago, yowsah1 said:

*Tyrion, Davos, and Jon come across a gold hand sticking out from the rubble as they walk through the streets of a destroyed King's Landing. They identify it as Jaime's. They pull away more rubble and uncover the bodies of Cersei and Jaime.

MY SNARK: BLOODY HELL WHUT?!?! CERSEI AND JAIME WERE IN THE VERY BOTTOM OF A MULTI-STORY STRUCTURE (seriously, the thing is what? 30 stories high?) THAT COLLAPSED INTO IT'S FOUNDATIONS!!!! NOW THEY'RE 6 INCHES BELOW THE SURFACE?!?! WTF?!?! HOW DID THEY GET THERE?!?!

Not to mention, besides Jaime's gold hand (which is also questionable with a structure that high and heavy), there would actually be very little left of their bodies to identify them, except just.... a bloody squishy pancaked mess.

[Soup333]

12 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Not to mention, besides Jaime's gold hand (which is also questionable with a structure that high and heavy), there would actually be very little left of their bodies to identify them, except just.... a bloody squishy pancaked mess.

Their plot armor was strong but the Deluxe version was saved for the remaining Stark children. Don’t you come in here with your logic and try to ruin it. This is a place of subverted expectations.  

[Nashville]

31 minutes ago, yowsah1 said:

Or maybe they'll just have a final scene of Drogon flying off with Dany's body as the strains of STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN swell on the soundtrack...

You’re hearing “Stairway to Heaven”?  Me, I’m hearing “Yakety Sax”. 

[galaxygirl76]

I do appreciate Drogon melting the throne. It came into existence because of dragon fire, it's fitting to take it out with dragon fire.

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Putting Bran in charge makes Tyrion the defacto king if he is the Hand. It's Tyrion who will rule the land, not Bran. 

We’d have to see how it plays out. Bran is still seems to be calling the shots though. Tyrion seems to handle the minutiae 

And Tyrion is limited by his mortal lifespan while Bran is not.

Tyrion even mentions that Bran knowing their history better than anyone else will be useful as Lord of Winterfell. 

Bran rules, Tyrion helps 

[Affogato]

5 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

We’d have to see how it plays out. Bran is still seems to be calling the shots though. Tyrion seems to handle the minutiae 

And Tyrion is limited by his mortal lifespan while Bran is not.

Tyrion even mentions that Bran knowing their history better than anyone else will be useful as Lord of Winterfell. 

Bran rules, Tyrion helps 

Bran holds it in trust until people can govern themselves. 

[screamin]

19 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

We’d have to see how it plays out. Bran is still seems to be calling the shots though. Tyrion seems to handle the minutiae 

And Tyrion is limited by his mortal lifespan while Bran is not.

Tyrion even mentions that Bran knowing their history better than anyone else will be useful as Lord of Winterfell. 

Bran rules, Tyrion helps 

We don't know that Bran will live as long as the last Three-Eyed Raven without being plugged into a weirtree - which KL lacks.

Edited May 16, 2019 by screamin

[WindyNights]

7 minutes ago, screamin said:

We don't know that Bran will live as long as the last Three-Eyed Raven without being plugged into a weirtree - which KL lacks.

Bran would bring weirwoods back to the South. He could hook himself up to one there.

He could even have a weirwood throne.

Or he could go take someone else’s body if he wanted as he’s the first one in history able to successfully usurp a body 

It’s even foreshadowed that the winner will have a dynasty that lasts for 1,000 years 

[Couver]

So the 3ER is confirmed as immortal?

I wonder if Bran will have to create a tree & root system like the last 3ER to maintain his longevity?

[Stallion12]

18 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Bran would bring weirwoods back to the South. He could hook himself up to one there.

He could even have a weirwood throne.

Or he could go take someone else’s body if he wanted as he’s the first one in history able to successfully usurp a body 

It’s even foreshadowed that the winner will have a dynasty that lasts for 1,000 years 

When was it foreshadowed?

[kieyra]

One thing I’m not surprised by is a decent ending for most of the Starks. Despite Ned, the show (and what I remember of the books) did want us invested in all the middle Stark kids. The symbolic wolf puppies and all that. So a story that wasn’t centered on them in the end would have been weird. 

“Follow all these characters just to watch them die like flies” really only works on TWD, I think.

[Oscirus]

4 hours ago, stagmania said:

He spent literally two seasons dissuading Dany from taking out Cersei, so I don't buy this at all.

He spent two seasons trying to prevent her from the queen of ash. Tyrions thinking long term. Now yea Dany could've taken over, said im here,  sorry about the civilians, deal with it and force tyrion to use his diplomacy skills, but who knows how that would've worked.

[ShellsandCheese]

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

He spent two seasons trying to prevent her from the queen of ash. Tyrions thinking long term. Now yea Dany could've taken over, said im here,  sorry about the civilians, deal with it and force tyrion to use his diplomacy skills, but who knows how that would've worked.

If Dany had taken King's Landing and the Red Keep when she wanted, there would have been a lot less civilian casualties than we ended up with during 8.5. Also, some of Tyrion's other plans weren't exactly designed to eliminate civilian casualties. He wanted to do a siege and blockade knowing that the food stores were almost non-existent, so yeah, let's just let the people starve to death instead. 

[Constantinople]

At this point I'd be happy if, after Sam proposes the council idea, some heretofore unknown character steps into the room and mows everyone down with  machine gun fire

The End

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

If Dany had taken King's Landing and the Red Keep when she wanted, there would have been a lot less civilian casualties than we ended up with during 8.5. Also, some of Tyrion's other plans weren't exactly designed to eliminate civilian casualties. He wanted to do a siege and blockade knowing that the food stores were almost non-existent, so yeah, let's just let the people starve to death instead. 

Three dragons flying willy nilly only one of which Dany  has control of?  Would've been bad regardless.

Tyrions plans were problematic but it was similar to what they did in mereen, get the population to overthrow the queen and accept Dany, getting her political points in the process.

[ShellsandCheese]

4 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Three dragons flying willy nilly only one of which Dany  has control of?  Would've been bad regardless.

Tyrions plans were problematic but it was similar to what they did in mereen, get the population to overthrow the queen and accept Dany, getting her political points in the process.

King's Landing isn't Mereen and Tyrion himself said the people were too scared to rise up against Cersei - so again, I don't know why he thought a siege/blockade would work. It's just another example in a long list of characters doing and saying things to fit into the plot for that moment, even if it's contradictory to something the character had already said or done. 

[Soup333]

9 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

At this point I'd be happy if, after Sam proposes the council idea, some heretofore unknown character steps into the room and mows everyone down with  machine gun fire

The End

Now this is a way to shock the audience. 

The unnamed Dornish prince?? 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Soup333

[nodorothyparker]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He will oversee.  He will stop them from making horrid mistakes, but leave the day to day stuff such as how to feed what's left of the people,  to humans.  He's super-spy on steroids too, as well as wikipedia with visuals.

He could, for example, foresee war, and informing them, be able to stop it in it's tracks.  He can foresee good or bad growing seasons, and tell them so they can prepare.  He can answer any questions they have so they can make good decisions.

Assuming he actually does any of that, sure, it could be useful.  But since he so far hasn't shown any interest in providing useful information when it actually might have been useful in time to do anything about it, like oh say mention that a dragon was about to be shot out of the sky or that the crazy dragon lady was about to go crazy and burn everybody, he'll probably just sit around occasionally throwing out non sequiturs to weird people out.  "You were so incredibly awesome when you were scrubbing out vomity, shitty bedpans, Sam."

This is all so terrible I'm reduced to trying to make myself laugh about it now.

[Bianca Castafiore]

17 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

If Dany had taken King's Landing and the Red Keep when she wanted, there would have been a lot less civilian casualties than we ended up with during 8.5. Also, some of Tyrion's other plans weren't exactly designed to eliminate civilian casualties. He wanted to do a siege and blockade knowing that the food stores were almost non-existent, so yeah, let's just let the people starve to death instead. 

Wasn't Dany the one who burned their food supplies in the first place? So this plan was nothing new and already in action.

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

King's Landing isn't Mereen and Tyrion himself said the people were too scared to rise up against Cersei - so again, I don't know why he thought a siege/blockade would work. It's just another example in a long list of characters doing and saying things to fit into the plot for that moment, even if it's contradictory to something the character had already said or done. 

These are the same writers who thought the get a wight idea was smart. Without Martin around to guide them,  they are relegated to the same half assed ideas that Cersei tends to have.

The worst thing this tv adaptation did was to make Tysha a legit whore, either that or Jaimes a dick for never telling Tyrion she wasn't.

[Constantinople]

18 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Assuming he actually does any of that, sure, it could be useful.  But since he so far hasn't shown any interest in providing useful information when it actually might have been useful in time to do anything about it, like oh say mention that a dragon was about to be shot out of the sky or that the crazy dragon lady was about to go crazy and burn everybody, he'll probably just sit around occasionally throwing out non sequiturs to weird people out.  "You were so incredibly awesome when you were scrubbing out vomity, shitty bedpans, Sam."

This is all so terrible I'm reduced to trying to make myself laugh about it now.

Bran's about as useful as Ed Glosser Trivial Psychic (SNL skit)

At lunch.. you’re gonna treat yourself to a vanilla ice cream.. you’re gonna eat it too fast.. you’re gonna get an ice cream headache..it’s gonna hurt.. real bad

[Francie]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Bran holds it in trust until people can govern themselves. 

So ... never, huh?

[loki567]

Oh my god at those leaks. What happened to D&D? I know they wanted to move on but there's a difference between deciding to end your show early and putting that garbage to the screen. They've committed 11 years of their life to this thing (counting the original pilot), you figure they have some sort of pride in finishing the show strong. 

It seems to me the last two seasons have been like a college student pulling an overnighter on a paper that's due tomorrow for a class he doesn't particularly care about. The entire thing screams rough draft, that none of the writers sat down to think about the logic in their characters' actions or the themes that have been represented in the series. 

Then again, "themes are for eighth-grade book reports," so... Goodbye, D&D. This is the last work of yours I will ever watch and yeah, that includes Star Wars. 

3 hours ago, yowsah1 said:

*Tyrion tells Jon is punishment is to go back to the Wall and lead the Night Watch.

MY SNARK: So basically, the trial scene from OKLAHOMA! Also... what Wall? What Night Watch? The Night King is dead! Why do you still need a... GAHHHHH!!!!

Hearing the "punishment," came from Tyrion makes me feel a little better. I assume it's with the implication that the Night's Watch is gone, so basically he's telling Jon he can spend his life up North with the people he cares about. 

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Assuming he actually does any of that, sure, it could be useful.  But since he so far hasn't shown any interest in providing useful information when it actually might have been useful in time to do anything about it, like oh say mention that a dragon was about to be shot out of the sky or that the crazy dragon lady was about to go crazy and burn everybody, he'll probably just sit around occasionally throwing out non sequiturs to weird people out.  "You were so incredibly awesome when you were scrubbing out vomity, shitty bedpans, Sam."

This is all so terrible I'm reduced to trying to make myself laugh about it now.

Show, I agree.  Book, I think it will work.

What is useful to the human race as a whole is much different that what is useful to Dany, or Jon, or any one individual.

Maybe that all had to happen in order for humans to get on a path that didn't involve mass self destruction.  He certainly saved all their asses by acting as bait to the NK, and by giving Arya that dagger.  He didn't TELL her she would be the one to kill him, and there are several logical reasons he might not do that.

In the books of course, we will know exactly what those are, since he's a POV character, but it's obvious D and D just wanted this over.

They COULD have made the 3ER relatable and interesting, but they CHOSE not to.  For example, we could have watched what Bran was watching when his eyes turned white, and they actually showed one scene but didn't make it very clear that we were IN Bran at that moment, the WW coming.  Anyway, as I said, I hate what they've done with this on TV, but I'm pretty thrilled we finally have a bare bones end to those damn books, and it's one I know I can live with.

It actually makes me look forward to the other books finally coming out (if they do.)

[Portia4844]

40 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Bran's about as useful as Ed Glosser Trivial Psychic (SNL skit)

At lunch.. you’re gonna treat yourself to a vanilla ice cream.. you’re gonna eat it too fast.. you’re gonna get an ice cream headache..it’s gonna hurt.. real bad

Maybe Bran's usefulness isn't about being King but his role in destroying Fire and Ice.  He was involved in the Night King's death and Dany and Dragons would be the other.  It's hard to believe he's evil or that he'd be a traditional King and but maybe a manipulator.  That's the only way his role would be at all interesting.  I loved his storyline in the books and D&D make him look idiotic so hopefully that's more about them than about Martin intended for the 3ER.  They gave the NK death to Arya so maybe it's because Jon has to be the one to destroy the other.  

[chrisvee]

10 hours ago, ulkis said:

The article wasn't exactly how the poster summed it up.

I think the important thing is that Jaime had a chance at freedom [with Brienne] and finally liberated himself from Cersei, which I think the audience will be thrilled about,” Headey adds. “I think the biggest surprise is he came back for her. Cersei realizes just how she loves him and just how much he loves her. It’s the most authentic connection she’s ever had. Ultimately they belong together.”

🤮

[lucindabelle]

Just now, chrisvee said:

I think the important thing is that Jaime had a chance at freedom [with Brienne] and finally liberated himself from Cersei, which I think the audience will be thrilled about,” Headey adds. “I think the biggest surprise is he came back for her. Cersei realizes just how she loves him and just how much he loves her. It’s the most authentic connection she’s ever had. Ultimately they belong together.”

🤮

Vomit indeed. In other words they’re psyched they tricked he viewers.

i will never watch anything these clowns do.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

The worst thing this tv adaptation did was to make Tysha a legit whore, either that or Jaimes a dick for never telling Tyrion she wasn't.

I think D&D learned something at that April 2013 meeting with GRRM that made them change their minds about including the Tysha reveal in S4. Since D&D have made it clear they're going to keep quiet about post-ADWD book/show differences other than the three WTF twists, we may never know what it was unless the post-ADWD books are published.

[chrisvee]

Ok these new spoilers sound like extremely bad fanfic written to tie together the confirmed leaks.

That probably means they are true.

They make me loathe Tyrion, Bran, and Grey Worm with the power of a thousand suns.

I will be cheering Jon on to live his best life as far north as he can away from these people.

Edited May 17, 2019 by chrisvee
Typo

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, loki567 said:

Oh my god at those leaks. What happened to D&D? I know they wanted to move on but there's a difference between deciding to end your show early and putting that garbage to the screen. They've committed 11 years of their life to this thing (counting the original pilot), you figure they have some sort of pride in finishing the show strong. 

For realz. It's not like GOT was some half-assed show on a third rate cable network. We're talking about a cultural phenomenon. Why would they just mail it in like this? I understand GRRM gave D&D a rough outline of the endgame, but if they couldn't realistically get the characters from Point A to Point B in six episodes, then something needed to be changed. Book Dany can go Mad Queen because GRRM has all the time in the world to flesh it out. D&D did not. They needed to go a different route with many of the plot points.

[Eyes High]

I was rereading the 8x06 Cleganebowl leaker summary (such as it is), and it actually doesn't list that many scenes. The leaker mentioned that his source had "skimmed" the episode and had only seen "parts," but looking at the list of scenes, there really aren't that many:

1. Jon, Davos and Tyrion walk through the ruins, Tyrion finds Jaime and Cersei's bodies

2. Jon finds Grey Worm with the Lannister soldiers

3. Dany gives her big speech, Tyrion in disgust throws his Hand pin down, leading Dany to imprison him

4. [Throwaway spoilers] Tyrion tries to convince Jon that Dany is a threat to his family

5. Jon comes upon Dany in the throne room and kills her, Drogon leaves with her body

6. Big council scene where Grey Worm and the council argue over what's to be done with Jon and Tyrion, Bran is made king, Tyrion is made Hand

7. Jon bids Sansa and Arya goodbye, Arya informs them in that same conversation she's going west of Westeros

8. Tyrion leads the council

9. Closing montage: Sansa rules Winterfell, Arya sails away, Jon is reunited with Tormund and Ghost (and that last one was filmed in a day, so it must be a very short scene)

The thing to remember is that GOT scenes are individually extremely short, usually 2-3 minutes. There is no way all of this takes 80 minutes. Even the big Dragonpit council scene can't take that long. So this is maybe 40 minutes' worth of stuff. Where's the rest of the episode?

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, chrisvee said:

I think the important thing is that Jaime had a chance at freedom [with Brienne] and finally liberated himself from Cersei, which I think the audience will be thrilled about,” Headey adds. “I think the biggest surprise is he came back for her. Cersei realizes just how she loves him and just how much he loves her. It’s the most authentic connection she’s ever had. Ultimately they belong together.”

🤮

Yeah but I don't think that equates to, "Brienne was just a slide fling." I don't know what it equates to though, heh.

Peter Dinklage saying, "they're bringing the dead back, and they put us in the crypt!" cracked me up. I have a feeling the actors will have more to elaborate later on.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

Yeah but I don't think that equates to, "Brienne was just a slide fling." I don't know what it equates to though, heh.

Apparently, in the Jaime/Brienne goodbye scene, David Nutter told Nikolaj (as Jaime) to tell Gwendoline (as Brienne) he didn't love her anymore between takes, and that's what got the shattered Gwendoline reaction shot that ended up in the show. Brutal!

Quote

Peter Dinklage saying, "they're bringing the dead back, and they put us in the crypt!" cracked me up. I have a feeling the actors will have more to elaborate later on.

Yeah, that cracked me up, along with Maisie Williams saying of the shot where Arya's lying stunned and bloodied in the rubble "They want you to think Arya is dead for a moment, but I think the audience is smarter than that." Ha!

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

The worst thing this tv adaptation did was to make Tysha a legit whore, either that or Jaimes a dick for never telling Tyrion she wasn't.

I hated the message from the book that the gang rape was okay when she was supposed to be a whore, but oh, noes when it was revealed she wasn’t. Shut the fuck up! (Not you, Martin) It was still vile and horrible even if she is a whore. Then again, I was still plenty mad at the show when Bronn made a comment about killing whoever did that to him. Not saying it wasn’t traumatizing for Tyrion, but he is not the biggest victim here. So just, shut up, Bronn, go jump over a cliff.

[loki567]

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The thing to remember is that GOT scenes are individually extremely short, usually 2-3 minutes. There is no way all of this takes 80 minutes. Even the big Dragonpit council scene can't take that long. So this is maybe 40 minutes' worth of stuff. Where's the rest of the episode?

It's the finale, I assume they'll be willing to space out the scenes a bit. I doubt/hope that they wouldn't kill Dany in the first 15 minutes or something. Probably in the 40 to 50 minute range.

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Apparently, in the Jaime/Brienne goodbye scene, David Nutter told Nikolaj (as Jaime) to tell Gwendoline (as Brienne) he didn't love her anymore between takes, and that's what got the shattered Gwendoline reaction shot that ended up in the show. Brutal!

Yeah, that cracked me up, along with Maisie Williams saying of the shot where Arya's lying stunned and bloodied in the rubble "They want you to think Arya is dead for a moment, but I think the audience is smarter than that." Ha!

I don’t know which reaction option to chose because I want to laugh at the second paragraph and rage at the first. What the ever loving fuck? It’s not even the part about never loving her, it’s about making it all so simplistic. Like, I can absolutely believe Jaime would tell her that in that moment but you also need to contextualize it with self-loathing and him not seeing the point of dragging her down with him as he realizes he can never be free from Cersei. So the statement is actually motivated by his love for both women, one messed up, one pure. Jamie chooses the messed up one because that’s what he’s known for literally his entire life. There. It wasn’t even hard.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

The thing to remember is that GOT scenes are individually extremely short, usually 2-3 minutes. There is no way all of this takes 80 minutes. Even the big Dragonpit council scene can't take that long. So this is maybe 40 minutes' worth of stuff. Where's the rest of the episode?

I was wondering the same thing, but I have a hard time figuring what more of major substance there could be.  I’m sure there are some minor bits (probably, e.g., something final with Sam and Gilly) that didn’t rate a mention.

1 hour ago, loki567 said:

It's the finale, I assume they'll be willing to space out the scenes a bit. I doubt/hope that they wouldn't kill Dany in the first 15 minutes or something. Probably in the 40 to 50 minute range.

I’m not sure how you would push it back that long.  The spoilers lay out a pretty direct narrative arc, and at this point there’s nothing else happening in the show.

[chrisvee]

Maybe there will be extended scenes of Jon and Ghost playing in the snow to eat up the extra minutes 

[anamika]

I think they will spend some time on Jon and Dany and Jon having to kill her. It's after all their big ending for the series. Dany and the man she loved having to kill her. If they do this in 10 minutes, the backlash these guys have seen thus far will be nothing compared to what they will get for the finale.

I think 30 minutes for Jon/Dany so that Emilia Clarke can try for her Emmy, 30 minutes for the trial so that Dinklage can get his Emmy and 20 minutes for the denouement.

[catrice2]

Hard to watch Jacob Anderson on Build talking about the show. Just from something an audience member says I am not sure if Grey Worm dies, which I just don't see based upon how Jon reacted to his actions last week. 

[Umbelina]

The only way I can explain Ayra's actions to head west, beyond the known world, just sail out to sea possibly forever, or until she circumnavigates the globe and hits whatever lies east of the Red Waste http://quartermaester.info/ or whatever, is that way back when GRRM told them the endings for the characters?

He was still planning on finishing the books soon, and that was his future spin off.  Ayra, discovers something that looks quite a bit like North or South American, and begins a new life.

Ahem.

Since when is Arya interested in exploring?

[Snowball II]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Since when is Arya interested in exploring?

Since forever.  She was always running off and exploring, in the books.  Ned could never keep her in one place, for long.