S03.E23: Finish Line

[Trini]

Quote

SEASON FINALE - With nothing left to lose, Barry (Grant Gustin) takes on Savitar in an epic conclusion to season three.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Aaron Helbing & Todd Helbing

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

So where was HR with that massive gun on the rooftop ?   Because that happened in one of Cisco's vibes.

[Trini]

Clip; Barry + Barry:

Can't wait!

[Last Time Lord]

We're gonna need another Cavanagh!

So... time jump? That's the only thing I can think of to follow up on this next year. I'm really going to miss the Savitar suit. That was swanky looking.

Does this we're in the New 52, now?

[SimoneS]

Good season finale. I enjoyed Iris being a hero and shooting Savitar and Caitlin choosing her own path.

Being trapped in the speed force is exactly the punishment that Barry deserves for what he did. Of course, he won't be there long, but still he had it coming.

[mtlchick]

Well, damn,  Shout out that called it ages ago but still, losing H.R. was sucky to see.   At least Tom comes back as some form of a Wells next season.

Except as a retread back to season 1, Barry has to run into some type of whacked out disturbance so balance can return to the (Speed) Force. AGAIN. 

Show, you know I can't quit you.  But I'm getting annoyed with you. Good thing we're going on a break. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, as everyone suspected, HR switched faces with Iris and is dead. I'll be honest, Tom Cavanagh played his death scene a bit melodramatic, much like his character's been. Goodbye, HR. It took a little too long to like you, but I'll miss you. 

I think the West-Allen family, sans Wally, needed a little bit more time to celebrate Iris not dying. Maybe after the first commercial break? It was kind of unintentionally insensitive, even though I'm sure they were all relieved for Iris to be alive. 

Ah, so Julian was with Caitlin's mother to bring her a cure. I still don't know why they continued to keep Barry in the loop. All they needed to do was keep him in the dark for a while longer. 

Hey, show? Can we ever have a speech from Iris about her feelings? I'm tired of Barry's mainpain, especially with Barritar. But you know what? At least Grant Gustin is a great actor. I actually enjoyed his scene of him talking to Barritar and reminding him of himself. Iris is also too good for this show. 

Also, good on Tracy for saying "nah, I'm out", at least at first. Also, I loved her meeting Harry. Man, Harry is awesome. 

Also, Cisco maybe a hug for Iris would have been nice? 

Wait....Killer Frost just killed Hunter Zolomon off just like that? Well, at least Caitlin got her revenge, but why couldn't Eobard think of doing something like that earlier? 

Wow, both Barrys are both smart and dumb. Who knew? I guess it was an ok ending to Barritar. I was all for Iris getting the kill shot. You go, girl! I'm surprised they even let her! 

AND Iris got the funeral speech for HR! My god, Iris gets two kickass moments? Is this an alternate reality? Also, Barry asks Iris if she's alright? And she gets to answer? And she gets to sing? Seriously, who wrote this episode and are they the only Iris fans out there? I mean, the Iris writing is still not perfect, but it showed signs of getting better. 

LOL, Caitlin's the new Arrow. "I am something else." I guess Caitlin will eventually be cured, or she'll learn to be this something else. 

So I guess Barry's gonna chill in the Speed Force for the summer. 

Also, since Savitar disappeared, shouldn't Wally not have powers? I guess then everything would be changed. 

I guess Nora Allen is always going to show up for the finale. 

Nice that Barry's finally going to get some comeuppance for Flashpoint.

Also, nice to see Julian still alive and around. There's hope that he might not just disappear off screen next season. Also glad to see Gypsy hanging around. 

[CletusMusashi]

Out of the seventy or so plot points in that hour, I think I understood about five of them.

[dkb]

You guys called the H.R./Iris switcheroo. 

I cried a lot. Losing H.R. was bad but for some reason I got really emotional when Iris started crying at the end and was crying along with her by the time Barry went into the speed force. 

Savitar was still a douche I see, even though Barry and team were actually trying to help.

Interested to see how they get him out next season. 

I love Barry and l love this show, even though overall this season wasn't my favorite. And geez show can you let WestAllen live!

[Jediknight]

At least give us a cliffhanger with a question, we all know that Barry is getting out.  Speaking of which, why didn't Jay volunteer to go back?

I was a fan of Barry getting to wear the Savitar suit, the Two-Face reference, HR going out like a hero, and Caitlin not going full villain.

[Rachel RSL]

Damn it, Barry! You couldn't decide to walk into the speed force before you delivered the save-the-date cards?!

But, seriously, I hate this show.

Why was it so important for Barritar to kill Iris at that exact moment? Why couldn't he just kill her 5 minutes later or at Star Labs or any of the zillion other opportunities he had? And if it absolutely had to be at that exact moment, when it didn't happen, why didn't he just poof out of existence?

And Killer Frost is just suddenly not evil anymore. Just like that. (And why give her the option? Just stab her with the cure.) 

[Lantern7]

"Barry, it's your mom." Damn. I mean, we needed a big note to end the season . . . damn.

I guess HR wasn't a waste after all. I pity the Wells that joins the team, even if they managed to retrieve the one that Eobard murdered.

Looks like Wally is the Flash now. Also, he is not a Doctor Who fan.

Caitlin manages to redeem herself, and now she goes to be someone else . . . something else. Given how Killer Frost is now on Batman's Justice League team, we should have seen that coming. And Julian lived! Totally would have lost money had I bet on that.

With Jay back, I reckon Jesse goes back to Earth-2. I'd like to go back. Maybe they got a Trickster that isn't Mark Hamil.

Funny to see Barritar channel his old putz self.

[opus]

Is it too soon to hit on Iris?

[Artsda]

Great finale.

Awww HR. He was funny, sad to lose him. 

So I guess they'll be a time jump when the season starts? It's The Flash, they need The Flash.

[bettername2come]

I liked it. Yes, people called the HR/Iris twist, but predictable doesn't make it bad if it's not ridiculous. I like how all the girls got a save in: Gypsy saved Cisco, Iris saved Barry, Caitlin saved someone and killed her psycho ex-boyfriend. Harry back on Earth-1, Caitlin not evil, Iris alive, Barry doing time over summer hiatus. This is good. I like this. This is fair. Also, Cisco is unflinching in the face of death and doesn't make working weapons for the bad guys when they threaten his loved ones. That's character growth.

Edited May 24, 2017 by bettername2come

[GHScorpiosRule]

I KNEW IT! Knew they'd switched! And it figures I'm getting the vibes of Smallville from seeing this show's depiction of the Speed Force. It, just like Smallville's AI Jor-El, is a raging, Machiavellian ASSHOLE!? Well both Heblings were involved with Smallville, so why not pick and choose from that to implement on this show AND Supergirl???

And really, if they're following New 52 HORRID CRAPTASTIC PIECE OF SHITTY RETCONS, why didn't Wally jump in? Like he did on Young Justice?

I won't lie and I'm not ashamed, but I was crying along with Iris at the end. My only consolation is that Barry will be back and that if that asshole Kreisberg can be believed, 

Spoiler

No more speedster villain next season 

 

and I hope this is the last I see of the fucking Speed Force, thankyouverymuch.?

Maybe Bart will show up to bring Barry back?

FuckingDouchetasticSpeedForce.

Poor Black Flash. 

[ruby24]

Somebody needs to tell Grant Gustin and Candice Patton to OPEN THEIR MOUTHS AND GIVE US SOME TONGUE when they're supposed to be kissing each other goodbye perhaps forever. Seriously, they clearly need that specific direction shouted at them.

[SnoGirl]

I liked the episode, but I wish we would have ended it with Iris taking a deep breath, wiping her tears and turning to the team to say: 

"We're going start working on fixing this now."

Also, is this the headline we're been seeing from the future? Flash mysteriously disappears, even though the team knows where he is? Iris takes his last name even though he's gone? No more love triangles with Iris and Barry, I hope when they get Barry back, we get to hear Iris say something about how mad she is that Barry told her to move on.

[bmoore4026]

COPOUT!!!

[quarks]

Eh.

Good things:

1. It's a Flash miracle, everyone! Iris got to be part of the plot! She even took down the bad guy! I'm as shocked as you are.

2. And, possibly showing that the showrunners did listen to my rant about last year's finale, all of the women in this season's finale got to do something - Gypsy saved Cisco and Team Flash; Caitlin saved Barry with her freezing powers; Iris took down the bad guy AND brought out the wedding invitations.

3. And Caitlin chose to do some self-searching rather than focusing on her relationship of the season! What show is this again?

Questionable things:

1. Caitlin's "I'm something else." Arrow has enough problems without you stealing its protagonist's main thing, Caitlin.

2. Where did Jay Garrick get a suit for the funeral?

3. Explaining the whole "Barry's vanished for a bit" is going to be a lot more awkward now that those wedding invites have been delivered, Barry! Next time, maybe wait just a bit to make sure that nobody is going to come and snatch one of you away, especially given your mutual lives? You're just lucky that Team Arrow are all currently a bit too busy getting kidnapped to open wedding invites, but did you ever think that just maybe, Team Arrow is going to be too emotionally worn out from their own season finale to handle the emotional roller-coaster you're putting them through?

4. And on that subject - that was an impressive number of wedding invitations given that the show keeps suggesting that Barry and Iris usually only socialize with Team Flash unless the CW needs a big ratings event, at which point their social circle expands to Team Arrow and Team Legends. So who was Iris inviting here? Her never seen coworkers at the newspaper, or former coworkers from Jitters?

5. Cisco, you do know that those drumsticks are just going to rot away after a few doses of Vancouver rain, right?

6. As said, YAY on Iris finally getting to have a role in the plot, minus several million points for not getting a chance to talk about how she feels about killing someone - an evil time remnant someone, sure, but someone with her boyfriend/future husband's face. POV for Iris, can we maybe consider having it?

7. I'd feel a lot sadder here if I didn't know that at some point, Future Barry is going to be informing Team Legends not to trust Current Barry or Future Barry, which kinda makes it a bit difficult to feel too concerned about Current Barry's fate. But assuming that Current Barry does end up stuck there, how does that affect Team Legends....you know, we're probably all better off not thinking about this.

Bad things:

1. For the love of television, )(*)(&)&, Flash, Supergirl, if you are going to be using the same sets, can you at least do us all the kindness of changing the background props? 

2. Nice of the Speed Force to give Barry such a long time to say goodbye to everyone. A little less nice of Barry and Team Flash to let various extras get injured and property get destroyed for that goodbye. Just hours after Barry had supposedly figured out how to be a hero, too.

3. So, Barry finally figures out that to be the hero Snart suggested he could be, he should be trying to help his Evil Self, instead of fighting him.  Which leads to - Barry ending up fighting his Evil Self.  Uh-huh.

4. I'm all for the Speed Force finally going after Barry instead of other, more innocent speedsters, but wow, Speed Force, for something supposedly comprised of SPEED, you really don't move too quickly, do you?  Jay Garrick had enough time after he left the Speed Force to help take down Savitar, get a suit, and attend a funeral. How did it take you that long to realize you needed another prisoner?

5. And on this speed thing, yes, it was all very very nice for Barry to let H.R. have a nice death speech, but Barry, to repeat my point, YOU ARE A SPEEDSTER. RUSH THE GUY TO THE HOSPITAL. 

6. Not sure why Savitar was so focused on only being able to kill Iris at that particular time and place. Given his whole "I MUST BECOME A TIME GOD AND I CAN ONLY DO THAT IF IRIS IS DEAD," why didn't he give into evil and used Barry's sudden "oh, right, I'm supposed to help people" and Iris' willingness to go along with that to get Iris on her own and put a vibrating hand on her?  Not buying the whole "I still remember asking Iris to marry me," bit because he was willing to kill Iris before this.

So, an episode that really didn't make much sense, with significant pacing issues. Flash.  But on the other hand, Iris and Caitlin finally got to do things. There might be hope yet.

[thuganomics85]

And so this season ends.  Yay?

Not surprised that, as predicted, it was H.R. that was actually in Savitar's clutches, after switching out with Iris, and was the one who dies. I guess that is a fitting end for his character, but it's obvious that there will be some kind of Harrison Wells next season as well, wherever it's good old Earth 2 Dick Harry again or they bring someone new.  The show can't get rid of Tom Cavanagh that easily!

In the end, Savitar ended up being a dud despite by Grant Gustin's best efforts.  I still can't figure out how this all came to be due to the wonky timelines and time-traveling, and Savitar just came off like a whiny, emo child, instead of a big threat.  And, of course, Barry was going to give him a chance to coexist, which almost blew up in their faces.  And it is certainly a good thing that Iris showed up to put a bullet in Savitar, since Barry was dumb enough to turn his back to him.

Surprised none of the side guest characters got taken out like Tracy, Gypsy, or especially Julian.  Really thought Tom Felton was going to be a one and done season character.  Granted, depending on how much of a jump the show has next season, they could easily ship him off.  But I hope not.  In fact, I hope all three stick around in some form.

Caitlin finally is able to control her Killer Frost-ish tendencies and save Cisco, but won't take the cure either and is off to "find herself." I'm sure her journey will end just in time for the season four premiere!

Yay, Jay's back!

So, the big cliffhanger ending is that it is Barry's turn to go into the Speed Force, so the planet doesn't explode.  A fitting punishment since he did create Flashpoint, but obviously he'll get out.  But knowing this show, by the time he does, Iris will probably "love again" with someone new, and there will be another damn love triangle.

Overall, a pretty weak season.  Really hope they get it together next season.  Certainly hope it's true that there won't be another freaking speedster big baddie.  Hell, at this point, I don't care how preposterous it would be, I would rather The Trickster be a seasonal villain then another damn speedster (hey, Mark Hamill can't do Star Wars all the time!)  But they certainly need a boost after the majority of this season. 

[Cthulhudrew]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

2. Nice of the Speed Force to give Barry such a long time to say goodbye to everyone. A little less nice of Barry and Team Flash to let various extras get injured and property get destroyed for that goodbye. Just hours after Barry had supposedly figured out how to be a hero, too.

I was thinking the opposite. We see snippets of people panicking, lightning thrashing the ground and destroying things, and everyone seems genuinely concerned... except our presumptive "hero" who's strolling around casually, ignoring the Speed Force's calls to make it quick, and making his big speeches before he finally saunters off into what we know is only a temporary situation.

Also- Black Flash's single weakness is... cold? Huh. Convenient. If only Thawne had known that, he could have just picked up Snart on Legends, and not even bothered with Merlyn and Darkh.

[SodaforceMaster]

I humbly request next season's Wells be a wacky bowling alley lawyer. Why not?

[quarks]

1 minute ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I was thinking the opposite. We see snippets of people panicking, lightning thrashing the ground and destroying things, and everyone seems genuinely concerned... except our presumptive "hero" who's strolling around casually, ignoring the Speed Force's calls to make it quick, and making his big speeches before he finally saunters off into what we know is only a temporary situation.

Well, I did bring up Barry as well, so I don't think we're as opposite here as you're thinking. But yeah - even if they weren't yelling "GO GO THE CITY IS FALLING APART!" the rest of Team Flash did seem more concerned both about the current situation and about Barry than Barry himself, who seemed remarkably chill about the whole thing. 

[srpturtle80]

10 minutes ago, SodaforceMaster said:

I humbly request next season's Wells be a wacky bowling alley lawyer. Why not?

I'm on board. Man I loved that show. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by srpturtle80

[ottoDbusdriver]

19 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I was thinking the opposite. We see snippets of people panicking, lightning thrashing the ground and destroying things, and everyone seems genuinely concerned... except our presumptive "hero" who's strolling around casually, ignoring the Speed Force's calls to make it quick, and making his big speeches before he finally saunters off into what we know is only a temporary situation.

Also- Black Flash's single weakness is... cold? Huh. Convenient. If only Thawne had known that, he could have just picked up Snart on Legends, and not even bothered with Merlyn and Darkh.

So was Black Flash a kind of time wraith ?  Have we encountered Black Flash before ?  And how did Savitar know that Black Flash could be defeated by cold ?  How did Savitar know that Killer Frost's cold was 'cold enough'.

Caitlin suddenly not being evil ... I got nothing.

Come on Barry, you never ever turn you back on the villain -- have you learned nothing in 3 seasons ?

Seriously, Barry's goodbye was really draggggggggged out. 

Where did Iris get the gun from exactly ?

Edited May 24, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[DearEvette]

Can somebody please explain Caitlin to me?  How is she just not evil anymore and yet did not take her cure?  Did she just take a sip or something and it cured her halfway?  C'mon, throw a sistah a bone!

Also her powers are so damned convenient.  Or rather exhibit # 5,421 that speedsters aren't very speedy when the plot doesn't call for it.  I mean, how the heck does her freeze ray have more speed or velocity than Black Flash? 

Anyway, I am thrilled Iris didn't die and once again she shows that she is a cop's daughter.  BTW, does this make her the only person on team Flash who has actually killed someone --  with intent? I don't remember if anybody else has actually killed anyone.  Didn't they just capture and imprison?

Sad about HR, but it was predicable.  Loved seeing E-2 Harry again.  I just love Tom Cavanaugh anyhow.  I wonder who he will be next season?

Also very cool that Gypsy came through.  And that last fight scene was rather cool.

I hope next season rediscovers its sense of fun. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by DearEvette

[ruby24]

So...I thought the whole reason Jay took Wally's place was because his life was basically done? There was no reason he couldn't go back in there, tbh. They just wanted to have some kind of cliffhanger ending, but obviously Barry has to get out in the premiere, so this isn't exactly suspenseful.

Iris will probably get him out. They still haven't officially brought up the whole lightning rod thing from the comics.

[RedVitC]

While my WestAllen heart is sad that they're being torn apart again, the ending of this episode and season felt right to me. The season has come full circle. I think it's also that after crying so much last week, this is also sad, but it's not 'the end of the road forever' sad like last episode had the potential to be (even though I'd already seen all the spoiler pictures and vid and was pretty sure Iris wasn't dead). Barry will be back.

Sad to see HR go. I feel there are too many scientists on Team Flash and HR was something different. But a least it looks like we'll have Harry back (he promised Barry to stay). I hope Tracy stays. And Julian.

I was very confused by the lets try to redeem Savitar part. I guess I sort of understood it was another angle they were trying, and Iris continues to be amazingly good, but at the same time, did they really think they'd be able to live side by side with him after everything? HR was still gone. And I guess that theme also played for me in the Killer Frost redemption. It was great that she ended up saving Cisco, but she was pretty much going along with Savitar until that point (and we don't even know why) and was an active part of the plan that ultimately killed HR. I expected more...something from her and the team about that at HR's funeral. I guess it's a sci fi trope that that one turn around makes up for it all and I can appreciate that she went off for some soul searching. But I'm also less clear than ever on if her powers actually affected her.

I'm glad they made saving the day a multi-step process so that we could see different characters have a win. It was good to see Iris be the one that ended things once and for all. I was hoping she'd get a part in ultimately defeating Savitar, so this was satisfying. And I can only commend Candice on that little moment right after Iris shot Savitar where she looked sad/horrified (I'll have to watch again to pinpoint what it was exactly). And they even gave her a scene where she got to realize that her death wasn't hanging over her anymore. That she could plan for the future. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment so I'll probably be able to appreciate the cute Barry/Iris scene before the cliffhanger more when I've had time to digest everything. I wonder if there is a reason why they made a point of Barry sending out the save the dates. Did anyone catch the date?

I do love Barry and Iris' chemistry so much, and that ending scene had me crying. But like I said, it felt right. It needed to happen (And it's not like he won't be out of the Speed Force).

[ruby24]

Yeah, I'd also like to know if anyone caught the date.

Not that it matters, I'm sure the writers are deciding now what point in the season they want the wedding to happen. But I guess it's possible they already had by the time of the finale- I'm sure they want to have it be a big event, probably invite some crossover characters, etc.

[TDT]

R.I.P H.R..you did good(even though we all knew from the get go that him and Iris set the whole thing up..)

So if its rumored that Arrow might be bringing back the Suicide Squad in some form next season,might we see Caitlin on the team..?

[benteen]

As always, Team Flash (specifically Barry) proves how stupid they are by inviting Savitar back to Star Labs where to the shock of no one, he tries to kill them.  Never change, guys!

Of course the gang can’t celebrate at the end.  Caitlin inexplicably doesn’t take the cure and an ice cube is all that was needed to destroy Black Flash.  Brilliant!

I did like the season finale I will say.  Poor HR, I felt bad there.

This show overloads way too much on the relationships.

[ohjoy]

33 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Can somebody please explain Caitlin to me?  How is she just not evil anymore and yet did not take her cure?

Caitlin's/Killer Frost's evilness left exactly the way it came: randomly and without logical explanation.

[futurechemist]

Wow, this finale really sped by.  The plot twists were coming fast and furious.

Iris is dead! Iris is alive! HR is dead! Savitar is evil! Savitar is good! Savitar is evil again!  Savitar is dead! Caitlin is evil! Caitlin is good! Caitlin is evil-ish! Barry is trapped!

I still think this season would have worked better if they had spread things out more.  Say, reveal Savitar's identiy around episode 15.  Team tries a few things, then around episode 20 Barry tries the power of love.  Savitar becomes part of Team Flash for a few episodes.  Maybe have him part of the Grodd 2-parter.  But there's still enough mistrust that over time team Flash inadvertently pushes Savitar to be evil again, so he plots his revenge.  To me that feels more organic.

Bonus points for "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow".

[BkWurm1]

That was a mess.  

The ending was a cop out since of course Barry will get out.  And why does the Speedforce need a prisoner?  I thought the whole deal was that the only way to get the trapped one out was leave one in it's place, but they BUILT the speedforce prison.  No one was in it until Savitar got trapped there in 2021.  Since Savitar no loger exists, the speed force should never have become a prison for anyone.  

Why does Wally still have his power if Savitar ceased to have existed?  He lost them when Barry merely forgot what to do next, but he keeps them when Savitar completely fades away?   That makes no sense. 

Also everything to do with Caitlin's Killer Frost arc makes no sense.  If the powers make her go evil and it's not her fault, then cure her.  You don't ask permission.  If her powers don't actually MAKE her go evil, then she chose to go evil.  Put her in jail.  And what changed between her being really bummed over not being allowed to kill CIsco and totally happy to make sure Iris is on schedule to die and Caitlin suddenly turning on Savitar and having to save Cisco?  Nothing except that she could be cured.  But before she didn't WANT to be cured.  And nothing else had changed.  Savitar hadn't even acted like he was going to betray her like Cisco claimed.  But now she's no longer Killer Frost.  So that means that she didn't have to be evil.  Which means that she chose to be evil?  Cause she's now choosing not to be.  But is wasn't supposed to be a choice!!  THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!

Then there is poor HR.  I think if we hadn't seen this coming so far in advance and if I didn't start giggling when CP channeled HR and TC, Iris, maybe his death would have been more moving.  But instead, we had a good moment of Barry looking bummed when he thought it was Iris and then a nice reunion with Iris and Joe but after that, the scene just went silly.  One second Iris is dead, then "she" gasps and HR is alive long enough to explain whats going on and say goodbye to Tracy (who he fell in love with REALLY fast, lol) and send a message to Cisco but throughout all that time, no one even suggest trying to save his life?   Also, shouldn't he be dying in Tracy's arms, not Barry's?  Wouldn't he have preferred that?  Then BOOM.  Everyone is back at Star Labs and no one even acts like it's hard for them to put his death to the side while Barry goes and broods not over HR's death, but how he should be nice to Savitar and save him with kindness.  

Which leads to just a bunch of pointless, dumb filler.  They get Wells to talk to Tracy so she'll help Baritar but then he decides naw, he changed his mind and would rather blow up the place.  (That had to be his plan the whole time anyway. ) So not only was 'save savitar" pointless, but so was convincing Tracy to help him because...Team Flash are good people?  Huh?  But of course none of that maters.  Again, just filler.  

Which leads back to freeing Jay, which I will say was a nice moment.  I was worried that Cisco was getting dumber.  But it sure was handy when Gypsy saved his ungrateful butt.

 But then we have Barry running after Savitar.  Again.  And Baritar getting all excited that Barry killing him will actually create him.

 About that, two things: First, why would it create him since there wouldn't be a time remnant created and Barry wasn't going to turn into a power hungry god over guilt in killing someone trying to kill everyone he loved that wouldn't even exist in a few moments.  And Two, if you want Barry to kill you in order to create you, don't tell him so he has a chance to stop and walk away.  

Which leads to Iris shooting Baritar.  I want to be all yeah, girl power, but why did Barry NEED Iris to save him? Why couldn't he with his speed, just realized the guy trying to kill him was still going to try and kill him WHEN HE TURNED HIS BACK.  The stupid just hurts and one moment of Iris being allowed agency does not make up for every other time when she had none.  It just felt soo tacked on, I couldn't enjoy it.  

Eh, like I said, this whole episode was just a mess that didn't make sense.  Savitar never made sense.  Caitlin as Killer Frost never made sense.  Cisco suddenly having to decide not to go bad (when this was never an issue before) didn't make sense.  How easy Hunter the killer time wraith went down made no sense. And it all circles back to the speed force deciding that Barry's time on earth was done, makes no sense.  And Barry practically skipping off happily makes no sense.  But hey, for Wally and Jay and Savitar it was hell, but for Barry, he's being welcomed home...which also makes no sense.  

Well, next year we start mostly fresh.  Here's hoping for a much better season.  I'll miss you HR.  

Edited May 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[ruby24]

Hmm. Somebody correct me if they got a better look, but I think the save the date card might have said November...would they actually want to time the wedding for the big 4-show crossover? 

Not sure how I feel about that. I did consider that as a possibility originally, but then I thought it would deserve its own occasion. The crossover has to be one standalone story that can last over the four episodes, doesn't it? I mean you can explain everyone showing up on Flash for the wedding, but what about the rest of the shows? The wedding couldn't be the story for the other shows episodes. Could it? I guess it could be background or something.

Edited May 24, 2017 by ruby24

[Maverick]

 I don't think Barry was going to the Speedforce prison.  Nora said he wasn't going to Hell.  I think he still needs to be taught a lesson and can't just fix his mess and immediately live happily ever after.  

 The implication with Caitlin was that she was able to re-assert her own personality without losing the powers.  I still contend she had some predisposition to DID/multiple personalities prior to the powers and when they triggered the Killer Frost persona is how her mind dealt with it.  

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, SodaforceMaster said:

I humbly request next season's Wells be a wacky bowling alley lawyer. Why not?

You can have that for Season Five.  Season Four needs to be Henrietta Wells, with Tom Cavanaugh dressing and talking like Tootsie.

[VCRTracking]

Before he went in to the Speed Force I wanted Barry to say "I love you Iris. I've always loved you." and then for Iris to say "Ditto."

[colorbars]

The HR/Iris switch was obvious, but worked all the same. Kind of chuckled at how little they cared right after. At least he got a funeral.

Love seeing Iris get to the save the day after all that.

I'm as confused as everyone else about the point of the whole attempt at redeeming Savitar thing. Sometimes the show goes way overboard with the whole Barry Is Too Pure and Good thing. Seriously, what were they expecting to do there? Or was it just an attempt to keep him distracted until he disappeared?

Caitlin randomly not being evil anymore was weird. They showed her being ready/willing to kill Cisco a couple times, but then she sees Savitar about to kill him and she finds the Caitlin within her to save him? The only difference I can see was that Cisco seemed to have kind of given up on her in that moment, threw her the cure and gave her the choice, so maybe that somehow made all the different for her? Either way, I'm glad it was saving Cisco that did it and not Julian. Though the last few episodes have been leading to it being Cisco, so I wasn't too worried.

I'm really curious about who is gonna be on the regular team next year. Is Harry gonna stick around to be the token Wells of the season? Will Jay stick around to help Wally or go back to Earth 3 so Jesse can come back? I'd think that'd make the most sense, since Wally and her dad will be there now, and Jay doesn't have any reason to stay. Will Cynthia continue to go back and forth and just make appearances? Will Tracy stick around, at least until Caitlin inevitable comes back? I'm assuming Julian will stick, but you never know.

[ruby24]

I kinda want Tracy to stick around, but I'm guessing the only way they'd keep her is if they planned to hook her up with Harry. Which will probably happen. They did lay it on a little thick with her and HR suddenly being in love after knowing each other for what, a week? Two at most? I know it's to make HR's death even sadder- I guess it's a good thing someone was grieving for him. Barry really didn't seem to give a shit. I actually almost laughed at him being in those shades at the funeral for some reason. It just looked funny to me, with no one else wearing sunglasses. 

The speedforce sendoff was kinda weird, because Barry seemed way too chill about it, and so did everyone else besides Iris. It kinda felt like everyone in the circle (again, except Iris) knew this was not forever, including Barry. Wells didn't care, Wally was ok with it, Cisco wasn't nearly as upset as he should be, even Joe- yeah, he was sad, but he wasn't like, inconsolable. Almost like they all know Barry will be back after the summer...lol.

[Trini]

Quick thoughts:

Another jam-packed episode that could have been 3 episodes in the hands of more skilled writers. AGAIN they wait until the last episode of the season to reveal the Big Bad's true plan.

Can't believe you talked yourself out of that threesome, SaviBar. I guess you deserved that bullet. But seriously, glad that Iris got to take that shot.

Way to nerf Cisco's powers -- he can create portals, kidnapping shouldn't even be possible with him. Glad to see Gypsy, but she shouldn't have to save your behind. I was amused that Cisco's no longer afraid of a hand through the heart, though!

Caitlin/Killer Frost: I told y'all, she don't want to be saved. If they were just going to end the season with her figuring out who she is with these powers, they could have done that WITHOUT all the attempted murder! And since when is she more powerful than a speedster demon??

I wish I was sadder at HR dying, but I thought he was a waste of space this whole season, so....

At least Barry and Iris got a few minutes of happiness? I wonder if the Speed Force will let him out for Hamilton? Barry seemed a little too okay with going away, for me. If there was a time for that Single Manly Tear, it would have been then.

Joe: "No father has felt more proud of his son"
Me: "Omygosh Wally is right there!"

On the other hand, maybe we'll get Brother-Sister Crimefighting Unit for another episode next season.

[ruby24]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

At least Barry and Iris got a few minutes of happiness? I wonder if the Speed Force will let him out for Hamilton? Barry seemed a little too okay with going away, for me. If there was a time for that Single Manly Tear, it would have been then.

Yeah, everyone did except for Iris. She was the only person who was even crying. They said it was forever, but no one was acting like it, lol. Again, it's like they all knew he's just going away "for the summer."

[johntfs]

I did like that because Savitar was Barry he also kind of had Barry's tendency to take actions without sweating details he really should be sweating.  Like, after Iris's (supposedly failed) escape involving H.R. is he absolutely sure the person he's captured really is Iris West.  Because, you know (and he also knows) that H. R. has the face-changing technology.  Meanwhile when he went off to Star Labs to see if they really could find a way around the paradox and also to indulge his inner Barry, he probably should have made sure that the quantum splicer he was having Cisco jury-rig really was a quantum splicer.  Once again as both Barry and Savitar, Barry really is his own worst enemy.

Edited May 25, 2017 by johntfs

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So Caitlin is neither Caitlin nor Killer Frost, just a lost meta trying to find her way.  So, her character is currently directionless.  Perfect.  *yawn*

Guess we'll be seeing Draco and Cisco's vibey-gf again next season, as well as 'Harry' it seems will be the (again) permanent Harrison Wells for the upcoming season.  Speaking of 'vibey'-girlfriends, how did she know to 'breach' them to Barry & Iris' apartment??

Even though the phasing-into-while-forcing-him-out of the Savitar suit & then turning the blue to red CGI was cool, the final solution to pizza-face!Barry!remnant was a bit lame.  Iris shooting him?  *soft 'meh'*

I have a major gripe:  the editing & misuse of time for the final sequence sucked something fierce.  In less than two minutes, we go from laughingly happy to be alive & sending out wedding invitations to Barry has to be the SpeedForce's prisoner.  WTF is this whiplash-inducing turnabout!?

Happy to see 'Nora' again, but the finale's finale lacked any real oomph when we know we'll get Barry back soon into the next season.  Ok, maybe we don't know know, but let's be real here.  GG/BA is the main character.  Don't need to be a brain surgeon to make a leap of intuition that he'll most likely be back next year.

ETA:  Two straight finales of WestAllen exchanging "I love you"s and Iris looking forward to building a life with Barry, but Barry decides (or is forced) to leave her behind to change their lives in ways certainly not beneficial to them or their friends/loved ones.  I must say the CW is consistent... unfortunately, its usually in all the wrong ways.

Edited May 24, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[AudienceofOne]

7 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Why was it so important for Barritar to kill Iris at that exact moment? Why couldn't he just kill her 5 minutes later or at Star Labs or any of the zillion other opportunities he had? And if it absolutely had to be at that exact moment, when it didn't happen, why didn't he just poof out of existence?

Because the writers are still pretending this is a GENIUS closed time loop while giving themselves permission to just do whatever the fuck they want as well. The writing this season was truly terrible.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Can't believe I didn't come up with this on my own (read it elsewhere), but if Savitar is gone -- how does Wally still have his speed/SF powers?  Just a few weeks ago, Barry losing his memories caused Wally's powers to have never happened, but with Savitar killed/paradoxed/whatever'd out of existence, Wally's still KF.

Umm....................

[AudienceofOne]

3 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Can't believe I didn't come up with this on my own (read it elsewhere), but if Savitar is gone -- how does Wally still have his speed/SF powers?  Just a few weeks ago, Barry losing his memories caused Wally's powers to have never happened, but with Savitar killed/paradoxed/whatever'd out of existence, Wally's still KF.

Umm....................

Because the writers are still pretending this is a GENIUS closed time loop while giving themselves permission to just do whatever the fuck they want as well. The writing this season was truly terrible

[Spaceman Spiff]

The speed force really has a hard on for Barry doesn't it? I don't understand the whole reasoning behind it to be honest. Jay and Barry keep saying that a speedster needs to take Savitar's place in the SF, but prior to Barry creating Savitar and trapping him there, who was the speedster that was trapped for all eternity that Savitar took the place of initially?

And where was Jessie? Why wasn't she around to help? I'm sure Earth 3 could do without a speedster for a few minutes while she helps her friends.

Savitar kills IrisHR. Savitar threatens to kill KF, Reverse Flash style, if Cisco doesn't help him. Once the bazooka is complete he tells KF to kill Cisco. Joe threatens to "take down" pizza faced Barry. KF tells Cisco to turn bad and kill her when he and Gypsy have her down, but he spares her. Savitar threatens to kill Joe, Wally and Iris (again). Savitar tells Barry to walk over to the dark side and kill him so that he can be created. Iris kills Savitar. The Speed Force takes Barry.

Kind of a gloomy season finale no?

If they didn't trap Barry in the speed force in a prior episode, this might have been ok, but it now seems like a rehash, again.

[AudienceofOne]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

The speed force really has a hard on for Barry doesn't it? I don't understand the whole reasoning behind it to be honest. Jay and Barry keep saying that a speedster needs to take Savitar's place in the SF, but prior to Barry creating Savitar and trapping him there, who was the speedster that was trapped for all eternity that Savitar took the place of initially?

No one. Barry created the prison for Savitar. Savitar never existed.

But for some reason all of these events still happened and the prison still exists even though nobody ever built it.

Because the writers are still pretending this is a GENIUS closed time loop while giving themselves permission to just do whatever the fuck they want.

Wait, did I already say that?