S24.E08: Week 8: Trio Night

[FilmTVGeek80]

Quote

I'm tired of Normani being hailed as the second coming of Bindi. #anyonebutNormani

I was bored by tonight. Guess I'll be back for the "epic" the hour finale on whatever Tuesday ... but only because I like the party feel and seeing the eliminated couples.

I mostly don't care at all who wins. Rashad, I guess, if I had to pick.

1

THIS! Pretty much word for word. I adore Tom (loved him dancing on top of the judges' table) but after Normani's contemporary he said something like "How can you not be moved after a dance like that?" My response was "easily." I was so bored by all of the dances tonight. During that contemporary, I knew what they were going for, but I was just unmoved and my mind wandered towards the end of it. And the tongue bath from the judges' was definitely Bindi-esque and annoyed me.

But watching Normani tonight just made me more sure of something that we were debating in last week's thread. Normani's dances were polar opposites and she acted each dance completely differently. As much as the judges' comments annoyed me she is a good actress on stage and has a presence that Simone lacks. It probably helps that she's a performer and has, apparently, been trained in some form of dance most of her life, but still...

But tonight was definitely the night of the 'tude from the contestants. Bonner was so arrogant and annoyed the whole night, starting with the package for the first dance and how miffed he was at the judges' scores. Clearly, he had an overinflated sense of how he was dancing if he truly thought he deserved better than what he got. 

9 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

I agree. The timing of the judges' critiques for Simone tonight was very fishy and screams "agenda" to me. Everything they said about her performance ability has been said on this board all season, but they choose to harp on it the week where the finalists get decided? And for a foxtrot? A dance that is supposed to be pretty and smiley and not particularly deep?

And for those who think Simone copped an attitude tonight...the judges gave her a hard time for smiling! You really expect her to smile after that?

The show has practically guaranteed a Simone ouster next week, leading to a predictable final results of 3rd-David, 2nd-Normani, and winner-Rashad. I haven't been a Simone voter (Nancy was my favorite), but it is so predictable, it makes me so mad that the majority of the DWTS viewers won't see it and fall right into the manipulation. Well, at least Emma will get a win.

 

If Simone is ousted next week, I don't think it's because people have fallen into a manipulation. It'll probably be because they have other people they like better and maybe they just so happened to agree with the judges' comments - and probably didn't like Simone's attitude. Her response of "smiling doesn't win you gold medals" is probably accurate, but hate to break it to you, sweetie, but you're not at the Olympics right now. I get the comments that being emotionless is what has been ingrained in her her whole life, but perhaps she shouldn't have signed up for a show that requires genuine emotion and performance if she can't do it. 

I thought the Mandy's comment last week was on point, as were Julieanne and Carrie Ann's this week. None of them were saying "DON'T SMILE EVER!" I think last week truthaboutluv said that Simone's smiles feel "pageant-y" and that's exactly it. The problem isn't her smiling, the problem is there's a lack of genuiness to it. Like you can watch her packages and see how she looks when she's genuinely smiling. I thought her package before the first dance, when she was chasing that cameraman was so adorable. I think Simone is someone who, it feels weird to criticize someone for this, but is just too good at doing what she's told. You want to do the dance as you practiced it and not make mistakes, but there's got to be room for a feeling of spontaneity and not just someone hitting their marks and movements as robotically as possible because that's how they practiced it. I think it was Carrie Ann who said that about it feeling like someone was smiling not because she wanted to but that's how they practiced it. Like in their second dance, I'm not even sure what the dance type was, but it wasn't really a smiley dance but she had a genuine moment where she smiled but then she wiped it off so quickly it was like you could hear it in her head "No, that's not what you practiced."

Another thing I don't get about Simone's attitude isn't she used to getting harsh critiques? Maybe I'm just buying into the cliche of harsh Russian but wasn't that Nancy's whole problem in, I think episode 2, that she was so used to be judges harshly by coaches on performances, that she was having trouble accepting compliments. I would think Simone would be able to withstand critiques from DWTS judges who are probably lightweights in comparison.

10 hours ago, majormama said:

This may sound strange since the songs are so completely different, but something about the staging of Simone's trio with the lasers and triangles, and even some of the choreography reminded me very strongly of Alfonso/Witney/Lindsay's paso trio to Turn Down for What, one of my top ten favorite dances. Alfonso did it better.

 

I had the same thought after they were done dancing. It just felt very reminiscent.

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

"You dance perfectly, Simone, but you're not "connecting" whatever the hell that means which is entirely subjective, so we're only giving you 9s." Then five minutes later they give David the exact same score even though he can't dance nearly as well as Simone, but because he's a "nice guy." WTF.

 

Juding is subjective, basically, so of course they're going to take into account things like how the dance made them feel. And it's always been this way with scores. David got a David 9. It had nothing to do with being equal to Simone in dance ability. For the judges that was a great dance for David, so he got a 9. With Simone they expected more so they're not going to give her a ten for something they didn't feel warranted it. (And I gotta say I like that for once the pro didn't whine in the package about not getting 10s and then immediately get rewarded with it, which is what I thought was going to happen when Sasha mentioned they hadn't got a perfect score yet.)

[Sister Havana]

I'm so glad Bonner went home this week. He was several weeks overdue. I'm happy with the final four. Granted, I am biased as a Cubs fan, but I just love David. He and Lindsay have a great partnership, and it was very sweet when she said he's become kind of a second dad to her. (I wonder if Kris Bryant and Anthony Rizzo are jealous. : ) ) I already liked Simone from the Olympics, but I've really grown to like Normani and Rashad too. (Even though Rashad's killed my fantasy football team in the past!) Is it wrong that I want all 4 to go to the finals? : ) 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Will Any Couples Earn A Dime On The Dancing With The Stars Quarterfinals?

Normani and Val are the only remaining couple who have earned solid perfect tens, so are all the others just fighting it out for second place? Or can they peak at the right time?

[ClareWalks]

This is going to sound facetious but I am 100% serious: Sasha needs to take Simone to a karaoke night. She needs to get up on stage and (badly) ham up a classic Bon Jovi song, or something. She seems to be so used to being good at something that she can't just loosen the hell up and have fun out there. She is great at dancing, but I feel nervous watching her because you can see that she is petrified of screwing up in public. If she can forget about being great and just worry about having fun, I think she'd be much more watchable. As it stands, that sour puss she wore the whole time she was being critiqued turned off a lot of viewers.

[FilmTVGeek80]

So glad to see Bonner sent packing. It was weeks too late, but FINALLY! Len was perhaps too harsh with him but I kind of loved him pointing out that Bonner had lasted longer than he should have. I think Bonner was over the whole thing by the end of the night and was probably relieved to go.

As much as I didn't love her gushing over Bonner, Normani showed the most personality ever in her package before the trio dance and in the dance itself. 

I'm pretty much over this whole season and I'm actually okay with that. There have been seasons I've been crushed when my favorite lost and/or annoyed as all get out by those who have won. Now that Nancy was unfairly booted (and boy did I miss her tonight) I've got no horse left in this race. Out of the four remaining, I'm not hugely pulling for anyone, probably more Rashad than anyone else, but I won't be upset if he doesn't win. As much as I'm over Normani thanks to her years of training and don't think David is as good as anyone left, I won't be truly upset.

On the subject of Simone again, it could be that, apart from the years of training for her to be emotionless and so focused on being perfect, maybe she just doesn't have what it takes to be an engaging performer in an arena like this. There have been actors on shows I've watched you can watch them in interviews and they have lovely, sweet, engaging personalities, but then you watch them on camera and just meh. Sometimes that stuff can't be taught no matter how much you try or want it.

[spanana]

22 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Tom was giving her a chance to save herself.  He did not anticipate her reaction at all.  I think he was looking for her to say she appreciated the compliments and give a big smile.   Her answer was the truth.  She just does not have the personality to engage the audience and judges; that is a huge part of this. 

It came across as rude and dismissive.  She will get asked about this in interviews, for sure.

I 100% disagree.  First off, while I'm sure there are some viewers at home upset with Simone, she is getting praised by most outlets for her answer. Also, second, it has nothing do with Simone not having the personality to engage the audience.  It is 100% misogynistic to ask a female why they aren't smiling when they receive compliments (backhanded ones at that), something a man would never be asked in a million years.  Are we as females now required to smile on command for the male gaze or so as to come off palatable enough for viewers?

Also why would Simone ever need to "save" herself from something as silly as not smiling when receiving a compliment?  That is something that requires saving these days?  On what planet is that even a slight or a negative thing.

I don't care if people aren't enjoying Simone's dances.  I even think some of the critique aimed at her is quite legit.  But they are also basically telling Simone that her emotions are fake when she doesn't feel like she is being fake, so of course she's not going to take it great.  That has to be a frustrating feeling to be told that the problem is you and your personality and your ability to be real.

Edited May 9, 2017 by spanana

[sinkwriter]

I miss Nancy; I was hoping to see her make it to the finals as an underdog. I also would have loved to have seen what kind of dance Heather would have done in the finals. 

With those two out, I'm rooting for Rashad and Normani. Rashad is just fun to watch (and very easy on the eyes); he has great spirit. And Normani is a terrific dancer who puts emotions into each dance - her contemporary last night brought tears to my eyes.

I like Simone, but I do think she's got that gymnast mode where you're ultra-focused and any smile is one that you paste on as part of the routine or at the end of a landing that you stuck well. She's technically amazing but I want to see genuine emotions come out during the dance. I want to feel like she's having actual fun (not just plaster-the-smile-on-really-I'm-having-fun sort of non-emotion). Or I want to feel like she's feeling something emotional (joy, sorrow, intensity, whatever), or just getting into the dramatic or comic character of a dance... and that's not something she's been able to do. Which is why I think Normani is the better dancer. They're both technically terrific, but Normani can also tap into character or genuine emotion, while Simone is more Gymnast Presentation Face. I don't know what it would take for Simone to be able to let down her guard more during a dance.

[calipiano81]

I'm really surprised some people think Simone was angry during the paso critique. I thought that she was avoiding smiling because she was AFRAID to, lest leading to more criticism!

[boyznkatz]

I saw Simone interviewed with Laurie during the Olympics, and they were fangirling over Zach Efferon like most teenagers and were absolutely adorable. Simone is charming in real life. I think this show just brings out the piss ant in people because the judges are so rude. It's a wonder anyone even agrees to do this show nowadays.

[realdancemom]

Glad Bonner is gone.  He should have left before Heather, Nick, and Nancy.  Len must have been really annoyed that he stayed so long.  I don't recall him saying stuff like that to Bill E., Cameron, etc. who stayed over better dancers.  He hasn't said anything to David.  I would have never guessed that Bonner's first dance was an AT.  I just saw a bunch of stomping.  The second dance was a waste of a good song and a chance to see what Britt can do with jazz since she used to compete in that.

I think Rashad was good in the jive but I really can't tell since I just saw a bunch of heads during most of the dance.  His trio was my favorite out of the trios.  He could have worked on his feet more but it's not like others don't have things to work on.

Loved Normani's contemporary.   It's so easy to hide behind a keyboard.   Nobody should have to go through the kind of cyber bullying that she had to endure.  She poured her emotions into that dance.  As Len and others have said on this board, I loved how her contemporary was so different from her jive.   Normani has been my favorite from the first show because of her performance quality.  It's too bad that Heather and Nancy are gone because they were the only other ones that could compete with her dance-wise IMHO.  I think Heather and Nancy were slightly better technique wise but Normani outperforms them.  I would have liked to see a little more jive in her trio.  I did like how she went easily from Val to Alan with some fast twists and turns.  She fixed her balance issues last week but sometimes I feel uneasy when Val and Normani do lifts.  

Already talked about Simone not connecting with her dances.  As I also previously mentioned, she is too precise which Bruno pointed out with her trio.  I would have liked to see her foxtrot feel more flowy instead of having drill like movements.  It's not the choreography, e.g. Val choreographing staccato movements in his foxtrots.  It looked like Sasha choreographed a flowy fun foxtrot.

David and Lindsay's waltz was lovely.  That was his best dance.  That was a 9 for him because the judges don't expect him to dance like the others.  I like their partnership as well as Emma and Rashad's.  The less I say about their trio the better.  He shouldn't be in the finals but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it.  I wish it was a four person finale since I don't watch the Bachelor.

[After7Only]

27 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

This is going to sound facetious but I am 100% serious: Sasha needs to take Simone to a karaoke night. She needs to get up on stage and (badly) ham up a classic Bon Jovi song, or something. She seems to be so used to being good at something that she can't just loosen the hell up and have fun out there. She is great at dancing, but I feel nervous watching her because you can see that she is petrified of screwing up in public. If she can forget about being great and just worry about having fun, I think she'd be much more watchable. As it stands, that sour puss she wore the whole time she was being critiqued turned off a lot of viewers.

I'm sure Simone has hammed it up with karaoke before.  I don't think she suffers from lack of fun in her life.  I just don't think she knows be anything other than technically perfect in a competitive setting.  You have to remember that many in the gymnastics world believe that Simone Biles is the best that's ever done it.  She is known for rarely making mistakes.  That comes from a very intense work ethic.  She does not know how to turn that off.    When she said she's been competing for 9 years and hasn't experienced a lot of emotions, I felt kinda bad for her.  CAI also looked a little sad when she said that.  

She's not ready for an emotional break through via dance, and I wish the judges would quit pushing for it so hard.  

[ClareWalks]

1 minute ago, After7Only said:

I'm sure Simone has hammed it up with karaoke before.  I don't think she suffers from lack of fun in her life.  I just don't think she knows be anything other than technically perfect in a competitive setting.  You have to remember that many in the gymnastics world believe that Simone Biles is the best that's ever done it.  She is known for rarely making mistakes.  That comes from a very intense work ethic.  She does not know how to turn that off.

Right, that's why I suggested the karaoke: performing for the sake of performing. She really needs to forget about the competition aspect of DWTS because it is not bringing out her best for some reason.

[scenicbyway]

I guess Normani will win?  It's hard to care about this season when the good dancers with the exception of Normani have been voted off already.  It would've been interesting to have Normani vs Nancy vs Heather vs Rashad instead we were stuck with Bonner (till now) and Simone (who clearly does not want to be there and seems to dislike Sasha) and David who is nice and has Chicago voting for him but probably should've been eliminated two weeks ago.

Bonner sure had an attitude last night.  I get that taking criticism isn't fun, but is he blind to the fact that he's been the worst dancer on the show for a few weeks?  I don't know who was voting to keep him in because he sure wasn't dancing to stay in.

It's hard to root for Simone when she really does go on autopilot for the dances, she's just going through the motions, and then to have her treat Sasha poorly. .. he seems like he's always gotten along with his partners before, so its odd they just don't seem to work.

[iMonrey]

Quote

She just does not have the personality to engage the audience and judges; 

I find Simone far more engaging than Normani so this is entirely subjective. Frankly I see very little difference between Simone's personality and that of Laurie Hernandez last season and the judges were all over Laurie so this criticism of Simone rings hollow to me. 

[McManda]

11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought the were pushing hard for the troupe members to be Pros next season. I'm fine with it tbh. I'm ready for a change. I'm tired of pretty much all the old pros.

I think most of the troupe is rather colorless and would rather not have them promoted, outside of maybe Alan.

What I would like to see, if the show wants to shake things up, is a break from the status quo. Give Artem the sexy 20 something ringer. Give Val the grandma with health issues. Get rid of Gleb, or at least give him someone where he can't turn everything into something raunchy.

Edited May 10, 2017 by McManda
Typos on mobile

[deemac]

As I said last week this is the first episode ever I didn't dvr.  But I watched bits in between channel surfing for something worth watching (obviously not very successfully).  

I've come to the conclusion I was spoiled last season.  I loved James, very strongly liked Calvin and while not thrilled with gymnasts at least I could see Laurie loving to dance which made me feel good.  I loved Sasha's patient work with Terra.  This season the only thing I've enjoyed is what I felt was Nancy's classiness with a capital C and of course Tom B which is a given (miss him on AFV).

[gimmeegimmeegim]

43 minutes ago, McManda said:

. Get rid of Gleb,

A M E N! LET'S HEAR IT. SOME CLAPPING NOW. A M E N!!

[Toonces464]

56 minutes ago, McManda said:

I think most of the troupe is rather colorless and would rather not have them promoted, outside of maybe Alan.

What I would like to see, if the show what's to shake things up, is a break from the status quo. Give Artem the sexy 20 something ringer. Give Val the grandma with health issues. Get rid of Gleb, or at least give him someone where he can't trim everything into something raunchy.

I will never understand why they brought Gleb back. He failed the first time they had him on when they appeared to be bringing him in to replace Maks as the "sexy Russian" and it was just strange that they brought him back instead of trying someone new, especially the same season Maks was returning. I'd be happy to never see Gleb (or Keo) as a pro again.

[majormama]

On rewatch, I realized how tall Brittany is. She's taller than Sasha, at least with heels on. We were speculating they chose a female pro because the men would be too tall, but it was just as odd to see a tall female paired with a short female and male. I did notice it last night, too, but didn't remember it until I watched it again.

[realdancemom]

32 minutes ago, majormama said:

On rewatch, I realized how tall Brittany is. She's taller than Sasha, at least with heels on. We were speculating they chose a female pro because the men would be too tall, but it was just as odd to see a tall female paired with a short female and male. I did notice it last night, too, but didn't remember it until I watched it again.

I noticed it too but I think the other male pros would still be taller than Brittany.  I think the shortest female pro is Witney. 

[crossover]

1 hour ago, deemac said:

As I said last week this is the first episode ever I didn't dvr.  But I watched bits in between channel surfing for something worth watching (obviously not very successfully).  

I've come to the conclusion I was spoiled last season.  I loved James, very strongly liked Calvin and while not thrilled with gymnasts at least I could see Laurie loving to dance which made me feel good.  I loved Sasha's patient work with Terra.  This season the only thing I've enjoyed is what I felt was Nancy's classiness with a capital C and of course Tom B which is a given (miss him on AFV).

I prefer this season way more than last.  But I wasn't a James/Sharna enthusiast.  And, I always felt Laurie was in command of the season from week 1.  Not so this season.  TPTB are working overtime trying to work against Simone, at least I think that's what they're doing.  She hasn't had a touching package or positive interview/critique for a while.  Len is trying to get people to think more technically about Rashad (a non dancer) and CAI is the counter.  Love the judge-combatiness.  The judges are trying to make people see David as "isn't that sweet".  Hoping people will accept the fact that he's come far enough.  Len is giving Normani great critiques--'you could hear a pin drop...'.  I'm not saying Normani didn't deserve it but they've been awful transparent in their praise.  I just think they are trying to ensure Normani is competitive in the totaling.  She must be getting the least voting support.

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 8 (in alphabetical order):

 

 

Normani & Val - perhaps it was the contrast from her traumatic contemporary, or the slick manner from which Alan glided out from underneath, or the silky smooth chicken walks at the top; but thought Normani's trio jive showcased a sense of newfound freedom to her movement and performance.  It was nice to be able to see the sharp, downward pointed kicks and thought (for the first time imo) she really connected with Val (and Alan), especially in the section where they slid past each other as soon as the “alive” chorus struck.  Building upon their Argentine tango, thought they hit a sweetspot in their American pastime storytelling, flirty chemistry as a fun trio and selection of vernacular jive steps.  Though the kickball changes could be a bit crisper, its nice to see the growth and how their rapport is coming into fruition even more through their performances.

Rashad & Emma - liked the sliding MoTown jive entrance; thought the side by side kicks, spot turn, and hat choreography at the top was attention grabbing, and that he did a nice job of staying on his toes with crisp feet retractions.  Think as time went on he got a bit flat-footed and continued with the flat kicks from his dance-off last week.  But liked the stop'n go/spins, the twisting play on the building lyric afterwards, the teasing reel on the fun bridge and how Emma reintroduced the timely side by side kick section again towards the end.  Still think that if he marries his individual flair with the needed style technique, he'll be able to create even more fun and magical moments on the floor.   But a fun jive routine nonetheless, and hope he continues to improve to chip through the ten ceiling consistently.

Simone & Sasha - thought there were moments where Simone was giving out a fun, energetic feel from her foxtrot and that it was nice how it was picked up on (Len); on the other hand, felt that it came out in interrupted spurts, such that it wasn't sustained from beginning to end (C.A, Julianne).  Nonetheless, think its nice that she is trying her very best to take the judges advice on board.  Still think the performance element may probably require a poignant, personal experience - on the magnitude of her most memorable year – to be able to register live.  Still think what makes her different and special is her Olympic background/experience (the sacrifices, disappointments, pain, regrets, triumphs); if she can tap into those rare journey moments - moments many may never experience/feel in their life - and recreate that world on the floor, it may bring a different, new dimension to her dancing.

 

 

Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[Venee]

7 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I love and support the Final Five, but Simone really turned me off tonight.

She's never broken out of her gymnastics box. Laurie did and that's how and why she won. Simone is gorgeous but she just doesn't really sell it on the floor.

It was very clear to me that she's not used to criticism of any kind. Simone won everything in sight for most of her senior career. I don't think she's well-versed in dealing with this type of adversity. Many female contestants have been too harshly and unjustly criticized. I rarely remember seeing a scowl that lasted that long. Simone looked furious during her critique for the trio. I don't blame her, but girl, you gotta hide it better. The viewing public never rewards that reaction. I do find it funny that they kept telling her to change up her expression. You wanted to see her without a big cheesy grin? She served it up!

Normani is clearly the best dancer left. By a mile. I can't help but hope she wins and Val takes two in a row. I'd have rooted for Nancy if she was still around, but now Normani is all that's left for truly great dancing. Rashad and Normani for final two.

They HAMMERED Bonner tonight. That was just ugly to watch. And David, nice as he may be, has no business in the finals. 

Tom dancing on tables is the best thing ever. That should be a segment during every show. 

I enjoyed the honest scoring last night. No point in pretending that what is left is a crop of great dancers. You have two very good dancers, two subpar dancers, and one great performer who came in with a rich dance background. In my view, not much to celebrate. That was a big letdown on the way to the finale.

Sharna looked relieved to be sent packing. 

I'm going to assume that you are not familiar with Elite gymnastics and the Legendary Marta Karolyi .  That world is merciless when it comes to criticism. It's all about perfection and pointing out every detail that is wrong. Gymnasts are picked apart to the bone, and only the strong survive (some barely). Girls have been broken down to the bone by that system. Believe you me, Simone has lived with criticism her entire gymnastics life. I'm not sure if people realize Simone was not always the Simone we now know. She was not at the top of the pack when they were looking ahead to 2016 and Gabrielle Douglas was the Belle of the Ball. The turning point according to articles was her seeing a sports psychologist.  Simone is the last person on earth that the term "not used to criticism" applies to.

[Venee]

3 hours ago, realdancemom said:

 

Loved Normani's contemporary.   It's so easy to hide behind a keyboard.   Nobody should have to go through the kind of cyber bullying that she had to endure.  She poured her emotions into that dance.  As Len and others have said on this board, I loved how her contemporary was so different from her jive.   Normani has been my favorite from the first show because of her performance quality.  It's too bad that Heather and Nancy are gone because they were the only other ones that could compete with her dance-wise IMHO.  I think Heather and Nancy were slightly better technique wise but Normani outperforms them.  I would have liked to see a little more jive in her trio.  I did like how she went easily from Val to Alan with some fast twists and turns.  She fixed her balance issues last week but sometimes I feel uneasy when Val and Normani do lifts.  

 

 

Me too! I think partly because they don't look effortless? Val is super strong so that's not the issue, but I get the same feeling. 

[crossover]

4 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

THIS! Pretty much word for word. I adore Tom (loved him dancing on top of the judges' table) but after Normani's contemporary he said something like "How can you not be moved after a dance like that?" My response was "easily." I was so bored by all of the dances tonight. During that contemporary, I knew what they were going for, but I was just unmoved and my mind wandered towards the end of it. And the tongue bath from the judges' was definitely Bindi-esque and annoyed me.

I don't ever think of Bindi when watching Normani dance.  They are no where comparable.  To me, Derek's staging and choreography masked Bindi.  No one really cared about her being one-note.  They thought it was adorable.  Normani elevates Val's staging and choreography.  So I don't see the praise Normani gets as the same as the ones they gave to Bindi.  TPTB never let you forget about Bindi's dad--a sympathetic figure.  Normani morphs into characters. 

I think this was one of the better DWTS-contemporaries.  It didn't rely on the male being a forklift.  The vision was very clear.  The troupe was needed for interpreting the cyber bullies.  Normani had great movement control and expressiveness.  So I'm with Tom.  It was a very moving piece.  Val did a great job with the concept.

[spanana]

14 minutes ago, Venee said:

I'm going to assume that you are not familiar with Elite gymnastics and the Legendary Marta Karolyi .  That world is merciless when it comes to criticism. It's all about perfection and pointing out every detail that is wrong. Gymnasts are picked apart to the bone, and only the strong survive (some barely). Girls have been broken down to the bone by that system. Believe you me, Simone has lived with criticism her entire gymnastics life. I'm not sure if people realize Simone was not always the Simone we now know. She was not at the top of the pack when they were looking ahead to 2016 and Gabrielle Douglas was the Belle of the Ball. The turning point according to articles was her seeing a sports psychologist.  Simone is the last person on earth that the term "not used to criticism" applies to.

I want to marry this post.  Not only has Simone dealt with criticism her entire life, but the original poster claimed she has never dealt with adversity.  She's also a young black woman.  There is adversity in this society in that alone, let alone being a young black woman in a sport where there have been a minimum of women of color on the elite level.  She was also a child in foster care at one point in her life.

Criticism and adversity are probably two things she faces and has faced on a daily basis.  Just because she's been cleaning up the awards and accolades for the last few years doesn't mean that it all came easy to her and she got there without any pushback.

I don't want to take anything away from Laurie's accomplishments, but I really am having a hard time with Simone being held up to Laurie as lesser.  If people prefer Laurie's dancing that is fine, but Simone is Simone.  She's not Laurie and people need to stop trying to make her Laurie.  She is not a bargain basement version.  She doesn't have to act like Laurie and be as open as Laurie because she doesn't have the same life experiences as Laurie.  

[realdancemom]

19 minutes ago, Venee said:

Me too! I think partly because they don't look effortless? Val is super strong so that's not the issue, but I get the same feeling. 

Yes, they don't look effortless.   Normani might be used to dancing but maybe, she's not used to be lifted.  So she isn't helping Val with the lifts.  

[crossover]

1 minute ago, realdancemom said:

Yes, they don't look effortless.   Normani might be used to dancing but maybe, she's not used to be lifted.  So she isn't helping Val with the lifts.  

Really don't know how much she's helping.  To me, it's more about the type of lift.  She's not 90 lbs.  But I'd bet she's not use to being lifted.  When she was taking dance, it sounded more like she was a solo dancer.  That's why I'm so impressed about how well she's performed in ballroom. 

[rockibirdi]

I think Simone is adorable.  I see her having fun and doing her best to learn the dances.  She connects with me!  Besides that, although I enjoy watching him, I think it is Dave's time to leave the ballroom. 

[kazza]

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

Tom was giving her a chance to save herself.  He did not anticipate her reaction at all.  I think he was looking for her to say she appreciated the compliments and give a big smile.   Her answer was the truth.  She just does not have the personality to engage the audience and judges; that is a huge part of this. 

It came across as rude and dismissive.  She will get asked about this in interviews, for sure.

That's how I read it too. It was petulant behavior. That said, we've all been there, she's led a sheltered life, and who knows what kind of pressure she was putting on herself, so - to me - I didn't think it was a huge deal. What I don't like is the media justifying it like some snarky comeback that Tom/ the judges deserved. CAI's comment about not smiling was legit. Her response wasn't. Let's move on. 

[Uke]

7 hours ago, F. M. said:

I agree, new pros, or good dancers from the troupe, doesn't mean they can choreograph or teach. Keo who I love, was proof of that. 

This!  And Allison demonstrated that being a great contemporary dancer/choreographer doesn't mean also being competent at choreography and teaching ballroom/latin.  

I question though whether tptb would risk replacing too many pros at once with untested troupe members.  Many vote for their favorite pro regardless of their star's ability to dance (ex. Sharna fans trying to get her a win with Bonner?-apart from those voting for the "cute" guy).  How many of those fans would take the season off if their fave pro took (or was required to take) the season off?  With dropping ratings, would tptb risk it? I'm doubtful that they'd swap in more than one troupe (or new hire) at a time.

[TeeMo]

14 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

Yes, they don't look effortless.   Normani might be used to dancing but maybe, she's not used to be lifted.  So she isn't helping Val with the lifts.  

I think lifts are just not Val's strong suit. I remember he did that dead lift with Janel and I thought they were both going to topple to the ground. His lifts always look a little shaky to me. Tony was the king of the lifts.

[realdancemom]

1 minute ago, crossover said:

Really don't know how much she's helping.  To me, it's more about the type of lift.  She's not 90 lbs.  But I'd bet she's not use to being lifted.  When she was taking dance, it sounded more like she was a solo dancer.  That's why I'm so impressed about how well she's performed in ballroom. 

I shouldn't have said that she's not helping Val with the lifts because she probably is.  It's just that some dancers help their lifters more because they hold their core, know how much to jump to help (just enough but not too much that they topple over), etc.  I did mention that she's probably not used to lifts.  She's also not tiny like Simone.  With the tinier ones, a guy can muscle through even if the celebrity doesn't help as much.  Val is smart that he doesn't do something like that overhead press lift that Lindsay tried to get David to do in their AT.

[crossover]

2 minutes ago, TeeMo said:

I think lifts are just not Val's strong suit. I remember he did that dead lift with Janel and I thought they were both going to topple to the ground. His lifts always look a little shaky to me. Tony was the king of the lifts.

So agree with this. 

[crowceilidh]

Apropos of discussions about various "star" faces and acting.... As an amateur who had some training in theatrical dance some time around age 40, I just wanted to interject here and say that emoting with your face towards a camera or an audience is much more difficult than most people think it is.  Again, men have the advantage because, in general, in our society they are rewarded for unreadable or one-note stoic faces whereas women are appreciated for mobile expressive faces.  It took some 4 years of training before I was able to add a smile or a nod or a gesture or whatever was emotionally required to my dancing and it was probably 10 years before it didn't screw up my concentration on choreo or footwork.  I've no doubt it's easier when you start off training doing both together when you're very young, and all of these people have spent a good portion of their lives reacting on camera in one way or other.  I just wanted to say that it's one of those things that seems like it'd be really easy, but as Joe Schmoe, it really was NOT.  

[ptuscadero]

21 hours ago, Callaphera said:

"Do you know Fleetwood Mac?" "Yeah. I love him. Wait, do you mean the guy? The rapper or is that the title of the song?" God, I love dumbass Witney. I just want to sit down with her and feed her different band names and see who she thinks they are. But the female vocalist completely fucked up that song. Worst. Rendition. Ever. Can we get #firetheDWTSband trending on Twitter?

IMO, the music has been for shit ever since they ditched Harold Wheeler. But then, I think the whole show has pretty much gone to shit the past few years anyway, with all the over-the-top production gimmicks and focus on gaining a 'younger' viewing audience.

[crowceilidh]

There really is no one in the troupe that I would like to become a pro.  Alan may be growing up, but he still comes across as extremely needy on camera - it's not a good look.  I would like Keo and Gleb and Allison gone forever.  I thought I wanted to see Britt Stewart, but the trio kinda sapped that desire.

I didn't get to hear Val's pitch for Alan, but I bet Maks caught some flak for his callous treatment of Alan and that we saw the results of that.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, McManda said:

Get rid of Gleb, or at least give him someone where he can't trim everything into something raunchy.

I would suggest giving him a really young contestant but then I remember Val had to remind him Zendaya was only 16 when he joined their trio dance and gave some "suggestions". So nevermind. 

[calipiano81]

50 minutes ago, kazza said:

That's how I read it too. It was petulant behavior. That said, we've all been there, she's led a sheltered life, and who knows what kind of pressure she was putting on herself, so - to me - I didn't think it was a huge deal. What I don't like is the media justifying it like some snarky comeback that Tom/ the judges deserved. CAI's comment about not smiling was legit. Her response wasn't. Let's move on. 

I actually don't know what to make of Simone's response to Tom because I was confused by what point she was trying to make by saying it. If "smiling doesn't win you gold medals" then why does she smile so much of the time (on and off the dance floor)?

[Toonces464]

49 minutes ago, TeeMo said:

I think lifts are just not Val's strong suit. I remember he did that dead lift with Janel and I thought they were both going to topple to the ground. His lifts always look a little shaky to me. Tony was the king of the lifts.

Oh how I miss Tony.

[Autistic Queer]

2 hours ago, majormama said:

On rewatch, I realized how tall Brittany is. She's taller than Sasha, at least with heels on. We were speculating they chose a female pro because the men would be too tall, but it was just as odd to see a tall female paired with a short female and male. I did notice it last night, too, but didn't remember it until I watched it again.

Not only that they managed to give Terra to make pros last year, so the height thing is nonsense. They gave her Brittany to show her up. 

I've seen a few comments on social media about the expectation of how how Simone is supposed to behave, because she is a woman, in particular a black woman. And they all had a point. Especially given the criticism of Simone's attitude when she isn't all smiling. Not only does Simone have that to deal with she's also neuroatypical, she has ADHD, her brain works differently, she processes emotion differently and also she'll learn differently. And as far as I've seen she has never mentioned it, far less played on it. I don't know how much it affects her, in all likelihood she doesn't know how much it affects her, but I think it must. 

[PTVjones]

Remember that time when Val was partners with Tamar, I believe this was the week when they had the Charleston, and during the prepackage Val was explaining the concept and the whole time Tamar was like "sooooooo why are you taking off your shirt????" I feel like Tamar got a lot of flack for having too much attitude. While her delivery could warrant that critique it was a seriously valid question lol.

I am Val fan. I am a Normani fan. Him taking off his shirt during the country jive was completely unnecessary. Just stop bro lol. 99% of the time the performance does not warrant you taking off your shirt. Plus, Normani is more than a competent dancer to keep your clothes on. 

[ptuscadero]

6 hours ago, wings707 said:

First of all, I love Tom Bergeron.  ADORE HIM.  

 

I'm pretty sure Tom is the sole reason I keep tuning into the show at this point.

[Wings]

1 minute ago, ptuscadero said:

I'm pretty sure Tom is the sole reason I keep tuning into the show at this point.

Way back in the 70s or 80s he was on People are Talking on a local station from Boston.   I loved him way back then!  He was a charismatic standout from his first gig.   

[Emily-D]

Simone seems to be getting the same criticism from viewers that Nancy was getting weeks ago. That she was coming off fragile and angry when things weren't going well. I've said before it's definitely an Olympic thing. These athletes are used to being drilled and critiqued to death every day for years on end by their trainers. Having said that I do have a feeling that Simone secretly thought this would be an easy mirrorball after her pal Laurie did the business last season and she's possibly showing signs of cracking as the judges nitpick her and it becomes apparent that she won't be winning her own mirrorball.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Emily-D

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

I'd be happy to never see Gleb (or Keo) as a pro again.

YES PLEASE !!!!!

[Steph619]

I've been very uninterested in this season of DWTS in contrast to last season where I watched every single show, but I did catch last night in its entirety.

What happened with Simone last night is just the typical nitpicking that the judges like to impose on the front runner every season. I'm sure Simone's response to the judges turned a lot of people off, but I don't blame her. From what I've seen from Simone in gymnastics, she seems like a genuinely nice and charismatic person so it's not a matter of her not taking criticism well, but rather just being frustrated because the judges kept saying she wasn't being real.

Bonner was the weakest dancer and that guy has just been creepy to me since that incident with Sharna in the first week. I'm glad he was finally eliminated.

[kazza]

44 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

I actually don't know what to make of Simone's response to Tom because I was confused by what point she was trying to make by saying it. If "smiling doesn't win you gold medals" then why does she smile so much of the time (on and off the dance floor)?

I took it as something like, "I won gold medals based on my ability - not my smile", perhaps as a reaction to CAI's comment earlier about smiling. I don't know. It seemed like it hit a nerve. 

[doLLish]

What is this thing that Normani must not be getting the votes because the judges are praising her? Where was this theory when she was constantly getting hammered by Len in the beginning?

Maybe, just MAYBE the praise is deserved?? She turned in two outstanding routines and still got called out for footwork in her jive. She's an excellent performer. It's not like she's Bonner or David getting this praise. Saying this totally takes away all the work and effort she puts into her performances and it's completely unfair.

Edited May 10, 2017 by doLLish

[calipiano81]

46 minutes ago, doLLish said:

What is this thing that Normani must not be getting the votes because the judges are praising her? Where was this theory when she was constantly getting hammered by Len in the beginning?

Maybe, just MAYBE the praise is deserved?? She turned in two outstanding routines and still got called out for footwork in her jive. She's an excellent performer. It's not like she's Bonner or David getting this praise. Saying this totally takes away all the work and effort she puts into her performances and it's completely unfair.

Two reasons:

a) Her 5th Harmony fanbase does not seem to align with the main DWTS audience demographic (whereas Simone, Rashad and David do), so there is always the question mark of whether she is getting enough voter support. If she were all of a sudden to take a dip in scores, would she be able to still make it past the other contestants?

b) Normani is a great dancer and performer, but it IS pretty glaring when she has received little to no criticism for her dancing the entire season (there was a little bit in Week 1 when the judges pointed out lack of body contact in their quickstep) and has received 10's for every dance since Week 5 from 3 out of 4 judges, whereas all of the other top dancers have all been given suggestions on how to improve. Any criticisms from Len have been about Val's choreography and nothing to do with Normani herself.

So the theory is that if Normani is struggling with votes, the show may be making sure her scores are high enough, lest she become another early boot like Heather or Nancy. 

All of this is unfair to Normani, but that's how I would explain it.

Edited May 10, 2017 by calipiano81