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S03.E03: The Law Of Non-Contradiction


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WHERE do I know that robot voice from? It's so familiar...

I thought it was Gloria's voice.

Edited by rur
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(edited)
6 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Mother and daughter as the older/younger Vivian Lord was some solid casting, though.

Are you saying the actress who played Young Vivian Lord was Frances Fisher's daughter? 

Edited by Milburn Stone
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1 minute ago, Milburn Stone said:

Are you saying the actress who played Young Vivian Lord was Frances Fisher's daughter? 

What if that was covered in the post five up from yours in this very thread?

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(edited)
23 minutes ago, rur said:

I thought it was Gloria's voice.

The narration was, but the robot's "I can help" was so familiar, but from somewhere else...

Edited to add... Upon reflection, I think it reminds me of Ralphy Wiggum...

Edited by Lakebum
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(edited)

The Santas, the mystery box,  cartoon, and  her sorta-father getting his name from a toilet.  Kind of a David Lynch weirdness, and Ray Wise to boot.  `I dug it.

Edited by Razzberry
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(edited)

You can buy banks where a hand comes up and takes a coin into the box on ebay. My nieces love me for buying them one with a cat paw.

I thought Vivian bore a striking resemblance to Michelle Pfeiffer in Married to the Mob and I thought Young Mobley looked like the Apple Mac guy from the early 2000's. Oh and the guy from It's Aways Sunny was freaky.

Being taken for all he was worth in LA still doesn't explain why Ennis was such a sh!tty person. He wrote a pretty bleak novel.

Interesting side story, but it should do more than tell us where he got the name. Maybe Twin Peaks Guy knows something?

eta: it's called a useless box.

Edited by WaltersHair
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This was my favorite episode of the season so far--Coenesque, and I didn't have to look at Ewan McGregor or David Thewlis (although I did miss Michael Stuhlbarg, and Ray Wise was a nice addition).  And if anyone wants to produce a series starring Carrie Coon and Frances Fisher, I promise to watch.

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(edited)

What other voices were there in the animation?

 

I believe I heard Ewan Mcgregor toward the beginning, and it sounded like David Thewlis was the one to retrieve the helper robot at the end.

Edited by Mrs Shibbles
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Ray Wise!!

Well, after wondering why Carrie Coon seemed to be in the background for the first two episodes, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that she ends up having an entire episode devoted to her: not an appearance from any of the other regulars (unless, as mentioned above, Ewan McGregor and David Thewlis were the ones doing the voice-work for the animated stuff.)  Pretty weird approach for just the third episode, and I missed some of the others (mainly Sy and Nikki), but I certainly can't complain about an entire episode revolved around Carrie Coon.

An appearance from another star from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.  I guess they just need to get Charlie Day and Kaitlin Olson to appear next season(s), in order to complete the set (bonus points if they get Danny DeVito as well.)

Frances Fisher was pretty good as Older Vivian.  Took me a while to place Younger Vivian, but she was Francesca Eastwood, who I know as Molly Walker from Heroes: Reborn.  But she totally is the daughter of Frances Fisher (dad was Clint Eastwood), so that's a pretty nice bit of casting there.

I do wonder if Gloria pissing off the new chief is going to come back to bite her in the ass.

Odd episode for what is shaping up to be an odd season, but it does seem to be setting up how Gloria ends up getting involved with the Stussy Bros, and their storylines.

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Well, if I came in on any 5 minute chunk of this episode, I wouldn't even guess it was a Fargo episode, in spite of the "Minnesotan" accents, what there were of them. 

Except maybe when Ennius/Tad was battering Zimmerman. 

Although I am impressed that the toilet in a two bit motel lasted so many years.

If this was the first season of the tv series I don't think I'd stick it out.  And even now it's getting to feel more and more like watching something thinking it has got to get better but then it never really does.

Kind of feels like a shell of what it used to be.

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(edited)

I want to go to Hollywood and stay in a dodgy motel, eat at an old fashioned diner with red pleather seats, and sit on the beach. Ray Wise ain't looking too shabby either for an older man.  I didn't realize that was Francesca Eastwood until the credits rolled, no wonder there was such a resemblance. Did Thaddeus think his life was already in the toilet so why not take the name? Donny sure likes his Arby's.

Edited by Armchair Critic
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Interesting side story, but it should do more than tell us where he got the name. Maybe Twin Peaks Guy knows something?

Well, the implication I got was Thaddeus pukes in the toilet, sees the name Stussey, and takes it as his own. Gloria sees the name Stussey on the toilet and which will probably start leading her to suspect the Stussey Brothers' involvement in this thing. So in an extremely roundabout way, this episode explains why Ennis was killed and why his murder will likely be solved. 

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No clue about any deeper meanings in this episode, but I was totally entertained. 

4 minutes ago, loki567 said:

Well, the implication I got was Thaddeus pukes in the toilet, sees the name Stussey, and takes it as his own. Gloria sees the name Stussey on the toilet and which will probably start leading her to suspect the Stussey Brothers' involvement in this thing. So in an extremely roundabout way, this episode explains why Ennis was killed and why his murder will likely be solved. 

I think all that told her was where Thaddeus came up with his new name.  She'll find at least one Minnesota Stussy if she follows up on Maurice's death -- she was suspicious about an AC unit in a window in winter.  Window AC units are common but most people take them out in winter. 

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(edited)

I know a fair number of people will dislike this episode, but I really enjoyed it. Gloria really became a fully developed character for me, with her feeling of alienation from so much of contemporary society, and we had some clever writing which will get her on the trail of Parking Lot Stussy

Really inspired casting with Frances Farmer and daughter

9 minutes ago, knaankos said:

Wasn't Tad way too young in 1975? He was at most 25, which would mean he was only 60 when he died in the current timeframe, when he looked to be about 75-80.

If he kept drinking and smoking a lot, he could easily add that many years to his appearance

Edited by Bannon
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30 minutes ago, loki567 said:

Well, the implication I got was Thaddeus pukes in the toilet, sees the name Stussey, and takes it as his own. Gloria sees the name Stussey on the toilet and which will probably start leading her to suspect the Stussey Brothers' involvement in this thing. So in an extremely roundabout way, this episode explains why Ennis was killed and why his murder will likely be solved. 

In one sense, his murder is irrelevant since the killer is dead. But hopefully, she will solve the murder of Maurice. That will be some real great police work.

I loved this episode. It was very different. Kind of like watching Fargo on acid (not that I'd know what that's like). But it may have been my most favorite episode every.

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Normally I'd feel the pacing was way off, to throw us Gloria's side story that was....well, really nothing more than a story....so early on. Ennis's adventures in LA had nothing to do with why he was killed, no real bearing on the larger story at hand. But for some reason, I was really into it. Everyone has a story, and there are different truths for different people. I just thought it fit, somehow. At any rate, it was a really well done episode and I Carrie Coon carried it fabulously. 

It also probably doesn't hurt that I'm not loving McGregor in this, so a break from him was fine with me. 

I have to say, I'm enjoying Gloria's deputy so much. He was SO jazzed about Arby's. Also, did he seriously pull the school bus over so the kid could talk to his mom? Flipping hilarious. 

I was glad to see that Gloria got an uplift at the end, with the discovery of the fingerprints. Even though Maurice is dead, Gloria is a sharp one and I have full confidence she will start putting things together quickly. 

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I loved this episode. Really atmospheric, reminiscent of No Country for Old Men in the seedy hotel, and the guest stars were fabulous. I've loved Thomas Mann (Thaddeus) for a few years now, since Me and Earl and the Dying Girl and the Stanford Prison Experiment, and others; I sort of yelped when I realized it was him. Then there's Mac, all pornstached-cop-in-a-skin-flick assholery...he was hilarious and gross. And Ray Wise ALWAYS plays a silky sort of charlatan bad guy, so I couldn't trust him for a second, tho he apparently was one of the few nice folks Gloria met in L.A. And mom and daughter as the old/young versions of Vivian. All so fun.

Absolutely not sure what the sweet little robot animation represented, or the box that seems to exist just to shut itself off, or what the whole Schrödinger's cat aspect of all of it means, but I was intrigued and amused throughout, and I though Carrie Coon was great. Also unsure if ANY of what happened in L.A. meant much of anything, aside from showing us how poor Tad, his head hung over the cheap hotel toilet,  became Ennis Stussy. But I don't really care if it doesn't. I just really enjoyed it.

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6 hours ago, knaankos said:

Wasn't Tad way too young in 1975? He was at most 25, which would mean he was only 60 when he died in the current timeframe, when he looked to be about 75-80.

I think Tad was supposed to be a bit older than the actor playing him. He won a prestigious award in 1975, but he had already gotten 6 or 7 other novels published by then so it wasn't his debut. That means that he had to have been at least in his early to mid 30s. 

I think they went with a younger actor in order to sell better his naivité. As it was, it was kind of hard to swallow that someone could've fallen so easily for Zimmerman's transparent con. Put an actor in his 40s playing the role and the audience wouldn't have gone for it. 

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6 hours ago, knaankos said:

Wasn't Tad way too young in 1975? He was at most 25, which would mean he was only 60 when he died in the current timeframe, when he looked to be about 75-80.

I'm pretty sure dead Ennis was referred to as 82 years old.  He would have been 47 in 1975.  Yeah, that was way off.

8 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

I think Tad was supposed to be a bit older than the actor playing him. He won a prestigious award in 1975, but he had already gotten 6 or 7 other novels published by then so it wasn't his debut. That means that he had to have been at least in his early to mid 30s. 

I think they went with a younger actor in order to sell better his naivité. As it was, it was kind of hard to swallow that someone could've fallen so easily for Zimmerman's transparent con. Put an actor in his 40s playing the role and the audience wouldn't have gone for it. 

That could be it, but I still found it a bit distracting.  I guess setting the flashback in the 1950s would have made it even more odd that the motel and Zimmerman would still be around in 2010.  Loved the overall oddness of the episode, though.

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WTF was that that I spent an hour of my life watching?  It occurred to me while watching last night's episode that I really don't care about anything that happens.  I don't care about any of the characters, so I don't care about who dies.  It's sad because I was looking forward to this 3rd installment of Fargo.  

Ewan McGregor and Carrie Coon as a Minnesotans are awful and I'm not impressed at all with their acting.  At least the Tampon Actress was somewhat memorable for the disgusting thing she did.  I do like the deputy though.  

I'm done.

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It's funny how folks can watch the same thing and come away with totally different perspectives.  It's all in the mine-set I guess.

I not only did not like this episode, I do not like this season.  I hate it.  However, I feel vested because I loved the first two seasons so much that I bought the DVDs.  Not this time.  The scenes are all dark and dreary, the music is loud and distracting, and I'm very bad with connecting the dots.  I don't like trying to figure things out while I'm watching a show.

In Fargo 1 we had the bad guys Lester & Malvo.  We had the good cops Molly & Gus.  We had carnage galore, but we knew who was doing it and we knew he would get his comeuppance, we just didn't know when or how.  So we (maybe I should say "I") kept tuning in every week to see what Malvo would next or what clue Molly would find, or how Lester would get caught.

In Fargo 2 we had the bumbling Blumquists, Lou Solverson, the Gerhardts, Mike Milligan, Hanzee the handman and on and on - great season!  Every show building to a crescendo that we knew was coming.

In Fargo 3 I have to read recaps the next day to explain to me what happened the night before.  But since so many people are enjoying it this season, I guess it's all me.  I will hang in there for the next 7 shows though. 

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(edited)

Fargo is fortunate to have such devoted fans.  I felt like I wasted an hour, as others has said.  I fought the urge to change the channel a few times.  I figured that I had better hang in there, because maybe, something amusing would happen.  What I found is that nothing much really happened, that I couldn't have gotten in the last 5 minutes of the show.  I got the impression that the writers were just trying too hard to be avant-garde.  I actually like things that are outside the box, but, this just seemed too silly to me.  I got the feeling they were trying way too hard and on something that didn't even ring true to me.  Plus, the age thing was all wrong. 

One great thing was seeing LA. I love the scenes of CA.  I've only visited once, but, really want to return.  I particularly like the history from the 1970's, so I suppose all was not a waste from last night's episode.  But, as far as this episode being a part of Fargo.....

I  agree with some others and don't really like any of the characters.  I mean, the kid is okay, but, there's just nothing really of interest to me.  I have such a different reaction to this season versus the others and I don't think it's good.   But, even so, it might still be better than a lot of other programs. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

I'm pretty sure dead Ennis was referred to as 82 years old.  He would have been 47 in 1975.  Yeah, that was way off.

That could be it, but I still found it a bit distracting.  I guess setting the flashback in the 1950s would have made it even more odd that the motel and Zimmerman would still be around in 2010.  Loved the overall oddness of the episode, though.

Then I'm guessing Thaddeus' socio-emotional maturity was the age of the actor depicting him in, what was, after all, a story of the life of someone no longer alive to tell it. 

It was my favorite episode, but then I prefer watching things that don't require me to rewatch, which, unlike for some others upthread, this episode fulfilled. Maybe that's because I went from the midwest to LA briefly in the early 70s when I was in my early 20s? And I read scifi written in the 50s-70s?

It was nice to have Ray Wise inhabit a character that almost rehabilitated him as the type cast actor of sleaze.

Loved the recap.

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3 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

I'm pretty sure dead Ennis was referred to as 82 years old.  He would have been 47 in 1975.  Yeah, that was way off.

I don't know if we can trust that information. The guy made up a new name when he came to Minnesota, and that probably means all his biographical info was bogus as well.  None of the info Gloria had from the pre-1980 period in the man's life can be trusted. He may have looked the part of an 82 year-old but he could've easily been a decade younger in fact.

I guess setting the flashback in the 1950s would have made it even more odd that the motel and Zimmerman would still be around in 2010.  

Not to mention that Zimmerman's con wouldn't have been as viable during the time of the studio system. Even someone as naive as Tad would've been more skeptical about someone telling him that they could get their pulpy sci-fi novel made as a studio movie with big name actors, at a time when sci-fi was relegated to B movies. 

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

It was nice to have Ray Wise inhabit a character that almost rehabilitated him as the type cast actor of sleaze..

Check him out in Fresh of the Boat. He plays a recurring character who couldn't be nicer.

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Robot story was sad! But I didn't particularly enjoy the rest of it because I'm far less interested in Gloria's investigation into her stepfather's death than I am in the Stussy brothers and their myriad problems. So I didn't appreciate an entire episode devoted to Gloria. I realize Carrie Coon has her fans but I can take her or leave her, and don't find Gloria particularly compelling. 

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Okay you people who are much smarter than me - why were they copying scenes from other famous movies set in LA?  That diner is the one from Pulp Fiction, right?  And Gloria's laying on the beach is straight out of Barton Fink.

I need one of those boxes!

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Just now, Accidental Martyr said:

Why would you leave your suitcase sitting outside on the sidewalk while you checked into a motel?

I was thinking that too and I reversed and looked at it again.  It looked like it was just inside the door.  But still doesn't make any sense.  

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27 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Okay you people who are much smarter than me - why were they copying scenes from other famous movies set in LA?  That diner is the one from Pulp Fiction, right?  And Gloria's laying on the beach is straight out of Barton Fink.

I need one of those boxes!

I'm not sure that was the same diner, but I know it's been used in other film/tv too, so I wouldn't be surprised. And I do think this show homages a LOT of other films, particularly and especially Coen Bros films.

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I really enjoyed this episode. It felt like a mini-movie, and reminded me of Mulholland Drive. So many weird little things that didn't really seem to have anything to do with the story. Like the Santa convention, the shoes left in Gloria's hotel room, the useless box, the Whatchamacallit wrapper left in the suitcase.

The robot story made me sad, but I'm not sure what the point of it was. You can try to help, but in the end you just have to observe and let people self-destruct on their own?

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I keep on expecting there to be some "aha!" Moment that connects the episodes and characters to get this season sparked and going. Like ohhh they knew what they were doing the whole time!

But no signs of such a moment yet. It had better come soon because you can't go halfway through a season without having any connections or interests. 

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I love seeing the seedy underbelly of LA depicted on screen.   Having lived there for 3 years I empathized with the robot as more of an alien, surrounded by predators and thieves.  I wonder if that's what Thaddeus felt as he wrote it in a drug-fueled binge.

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16 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

I love seeing the seedy underbelly of LA depicted on screen.   Having lived there for 3 years I empathized with the robot as more of an alien, surrounded by predators and thieves.  I wonder if that's what Thaddeus felt as he wrote it in a drug-fueled binge.

Except he wrote the book before he met the producer, so it was probably before he had done any drugs. And he wasn't a drinker, either.

It's weird that I'm more saddened by a robot getting his arm ripped off, than I am by any of the other characters' misfortunes.

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For me, next week will be a harbinger of whether the rest of the season will be something to look forward to. This week was a good one for me because I gained insight into Gloria. and she is interesting to me, as it turns out. She's deeply alienated from a lot of our current culture's superficial ways in which we connect to one another (I think her issues with technology working for her is a metaphor for that), she has family which has recently broken apart, now with a murder thrown in, and professional instability, and she is, quite admirably, in my view, doing her level best to shoulder the load as best she can. I want to see what happens to her next.

Right now, how this show suffers, compared to the previous two (and especially compared to last season) is that she is the ONLY one I have that curiosity about. Last year in partucular, it seemed like ALL the characters were compelling, and the actors delivered the goods. Next week needs to build upon what was started last night. 

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8 hours ago, AzureOwl said:
15 hours ago, knaankos said:

Wasn't Tad way too young in 1975? He was at most 25, which would mean he was only 60 when he died in the current timeframe, when he looked to be about 75-80.

I think Tad was supposed to be a bit older than the actor playing him. He won a prestigious award in 1975, but he had already gotten 6 or 7 other novels published by then so it wasn't his debut. That means that he had to have been at least in his early to mid 30s. 

 

I was splitting the difference and calling him 30-ish.

Which would make him 65 when he died.  Now, I know 65-year-olds who look great (TheWildBoar is turning 63 next month, and he's still a hawtie!)  And I know folks in their 50's who look much older.  So I can buy 65, particularly with the drinking and (presumably) bitterness.

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When I saw Ray Wise in the bar I was sure he was up to no good.  Like he said "What are the odds?"  But that cop was such a jerk.  For all his talk about technology he couldn't, or wouldn't, help her with information, so she did it the old-fashioned way.

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