S04.E20: Farewell, Cruel World

[paigow]

Daisy and Simmons race against the clock to get the team out of the Framework, but not everyone is ready to leave

[Lady Calypso]

So, I feel a little ridiculous for admitting this because it's just a TV show and I never thought I was this attached to him, but Mack's final scenes broke my heart and I ended up sobbing like a little baby. Then I thought that there's still a small chance for him to get out of the Framework because his body is still alive, but I'm kind of unsure whether that'll happen, since his final scene seemed very final. I am going to be devastated if he stays in the Framework and he dies. I'd rather they produced a body for Hope! 

My heart also broke in pieces for Fitz. Everyone else went out of the Framework willingly, but Fitz was forced out and he was so devastated and confused with Coulson/May. I honestly think that doing that confused him more and I don't think it'll be a good thing for Fitz for a while, especially with Human AIDA/Ophelia taking him. I did say "WTF" at her disappearing act with Fitz. What, can she now teleport places? 

Iain acted his ass off this episode. This is the first episode where he legitimately had me frightened with his creepy, open mouth smile when he was interrogating Radcliffe. And he shot Simmons! He disobeyed Ophelia's orders! It'll be interesting to see what happens with Fitz now. I assume he'll be the one to kill AIDA, but that could also push him farther away, since he's already devastated over killing people in the Framework.

Also, just realized that there was no Grant Ward. Hmm. Didn't miss him one bit, to be honest, and it DOES seem like he's now gone for good. I thought for sure he'd be brought back, but there's still a couple of episodes left. 

[mac123x]

Well, I'm just not going to even try to speculate what's coming next because I have no idea.  I really didn't think they'd escape the Framework until the finale episode.  Now most of them are out and Ophelia is alive and can apparently fucking teleport.  What the hell is that?

 

That was so good, but I found myself yelling at the TV "jump already!"  The "person X needs to convince person Y to jump" got repetitious. 

[Jediknight]

Mack's gotta be coming back to the real world, and he'll probably bring Hope with him.

The first power Madame Hydra uses in the real world is teleportation, which was Gordon's power, and as we all know Gordon was killed by Fitz.  I'm guessing Fitz will do something which will allow hopefully Ghost Rider to take Madame Hydra to Hell.  He's got to be coming back, there's still the Darkhold storyline going on.

Great Framework story show.

[Tiger]

Wow.  That's all I got.  

I already thought FitzSimmons was done, but after tonight there is no writer on earth that could write them as a legitimate couple.  

[MisterGlass]

In the back of my mind I kept thinking they can't tell Mack that Hope isn't in the real world, and that he wouldn't leave, and now I have no idea what happens for him.  I really want him to continue on the show.

I jumped when Framework Fitz shot Simmons.  He was a dark, dark character.  And then real Fitz was so panicked and disoriented at the memories in the real world, especially about Mace.

I can't figure out if Aida printed herself as a teleporting inhuman or if she has Darkhold magic.

I'm glad John Hannah came through in the end.

[thuganomics85]

I'm still trying to wrap my head over how I thought this show was pretty weak when it premiered way back in 2013.  This somehow become not just the best comic book-based shows out there, but probably one of my favorite shows of any genre this season.  This is insane!

As soon as Simmons had to kill Alister, I was dreading the obvious moment when Framework Fitz was going to catch up to her.  At least she didn't die (no thanks to Fitz), but that was still brutal: shooting her in the leg and then coldly declaring that she meant nothing to him.  Even if he was still being effected by the Framework, how can they get past that?  I don't know if they can.  As usual, Elizabeth Henstridge and especially Iain De Caestecker where shining stars in this episode.

Everyone's reaction to the reveal of the Framework was perfect and in character.  Coulson quickly got out there (being shot certainly helped!), Melinda still had doubts but trusted Coulson, and Mack stayed behind, because he can't live in a world without Hope (OK, a bit cheesy there, show.)  I refuse to believe he is in there for good though.  Either he'll not be able to fully embrace his life knowing what he knows or something bad will happen to Hope either way, but he'll find his way back to the real world.  Or maybe he'll even somehow use Aida's device to create a body for him.  Maybe Hope too (and Trip!  Hell, even Ward.)

Framework Trip's reaction when he realized he isn't in a relationship with anyone was hilarious.  Oh, Trip.  Even in the Framework, you're still a flirt as always!

Aida succeeds at creating her human body (of course, it require her to be naked, so they can get that TV-PG Mallory Jansen nudity again!), and can feel, bleed, and.... teleport?  That's new!  Although, I wonder if she's actually going to go by Ophelia now.  Can't wait to see where all of this goes.  Especially since she kidnapped a broken-hearted and guilt ridden Fitz.

Radcliffe saving Simmons and tossing Fitz into the backdoor was great.  A lot of shows could learn how to do a "redemption" arc from this.  In the end, Radcliffe is still a man who did horrible, unforgivable things, but he had good intentions, and now is trying to fix what he can, knowing he is doomed.  I'm guessing he's done this season (unless he creates a new body too), and if he is, this has been a pretty good run. John Hannah was fantastic as always.

Two episodes left.  I still have no idea where this is going and I'm loving every minute of it!

Edited May 6, 2017 by thuganomics85

[ParadoxLost]

7 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I already thought FitzSimmons was done, but after tonight there is no writer on earth that could write them as a legitimate couple.  

I don't think its done.  I think what is left of it will be annoying but I don't think its done. 

Fitz's reaction to ordering Mace's death meaning he's "a bad person" was heart breaking.  A decent piece of acting there; but I think those who called Fitz moping from here out are going to be right.  And I think that Simmons is going to be on a crusade to fix him and them which is going to get really old, really fast.

I'm still unconvinced that neither Tripp or Mack is going to end up leaving the framework. 

[DeLurker]

19 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Mack's gotta be coming back to the real world, and he'll probably bring Hope with him.

I knew I was in for some leaky eyes when it came to Mack & Hope, but D.A.M.N!!!!

If they bring them back, but somehow things go awry for Hope I'll have to check myself in for grief counseling.

Awwww.,,Radcliffe maneuvered Fitz to get him to the backdoor to meet the rest of the Scooby Gang.  John Hannah ends on a good note.

[Lantern7]

That was something. Not getting Aida/Ophelia (Aidphelia?) teleporting with Fitz, but I can roll with it. So she has powers of Inhumans killed in the Framework? What, is she basically Shang Tsung or Mega Man?

Poor Mack. Really want him back, even if he winds up naming his main weapon "Hope." I mean, that is his baby, right? Also, I kept wanting Mack and Daisy to say "upper-case Hope" and "lower-case hope," because the show isn't afraid to be that obvious.

[SnoGirl]

I spent the entire episode stress crocheting. Fitz has always been my favorite, and getting him to the backdoor was driving me bonkers.

Was it just me, or did we have a missing scene at the beginning? Where was Ward? Was he killed? How did they get back to the Shield secret base?

That ending, whew, Mack always gets me in the feels.  I feel like we might still get Mack back, but I'm seriously doubting anyone else leaving the Framework. If I was Daisy, I would have told Mack about the machine to make bodies back in the real world. But I still dont see how they could pull it off. Its at Madam Hydra's place, knee deep in Hydra agents. They could maybe get in with Hope and some agents like Tripp and Ward, but then Mack would have to get out AND get to and through the backdoor. Add that to the insanity that could be next werk from the previews, and I just dont think they have enough time.

Now, Im saying all this even though I want Hope and Tripp back. 

I did love Tripp with Hope at the end. It made me feel, there might be some hope to get Tripp back (I know, bad pun). He has so much chemistry with everyone. Come on Powers that be, bring back the Funk!

So Shield is all in trouble again right? That's what Team YoYo was talking about? Man, Shield needs to go back to the shadows, their business is constantly in the news.

This show, this season has been the best pay-off for being a long term watcher. Man, I really hope we get another season. *crossesfingers*

[diadochokinesis]

Oh, this episode!!!  Hope and Tripp at the end when Tripp told Mack that he didn't think he was going to come back and he was waiting until tomorrow to tell Hope.  I know she's just a piece of coding but my heart ached for that little girl in that moment. 

I continue to like the digs at the current administration with more alternative facts and fake news. 

Where did Ward go???  Darnit, now they made me like him again. 

Oh Tripp...  I loved the lines about who did he hook up with in the real world.  LOL. I want them to bring him back too.  I know they are just codes in the Framework but man, it just is SO REAL.  I can see why Mack doesn't want to leave even after seeing that it is all fake. 

Mack...  I need Mack to make it out of the Framework. He is such a great character and I think he has also really become the heart of the team. To me, he is just as indispensable as Coulson is. 

[VCRTracking]

God, I'm gonna miss Tripp. His scenes with Daisy were great.

Some people online are complaining how Fitz didn't mention shooting Jemma as one of the awful things he did in the Framework. Um, Coulson got shot in the Framework and is okay in the real world. Jemma's fine too. Agnes however is still dead. I also forgot he ordered the airstrike that killed Mace, so those are two deaths on his conscience. Coulson's right it wasn't his fault, but he still has to live with the guilt. 

Hope is beyond adorable. I don't blame Mack at all.

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

As soon as Simmons had to kill Alister, I was dreading the obvious moment when Framework Fitz was going to catch up to her.  At least she didn't die (no thanks to Fitz), but that was still brutal: shooting her in the leg and then coldly declaring that she meant nothing to him.  Even if he was still being effected by the Framework, how can they get past that?  I don't know if they can.  As usual, Elizabeth Henstridge and especially Iain De Caestecker where shining stars in this episode.

One person on Tumblr went on a huge rant about how Fitz should have snapped out of it when Simmons was talking to him. That's certainly what Aida was afraid of. I'm glad it didn't because that would have been way too sappy and cliched. I like FitzSimmons but I enjoy the angst part of their relationship the most. The "And you dove through a hole in the universe for me!" scenes. Who knew these two cute nerds from England and Scotland respectively introduced in the pilot could bring such Buffy/Angel level pain?

Edited May 3, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Traveller519]

"So in the other world did we..."

"Date?"

"Sure, let's go with that."

"No"

"Simmons, May? Did I get to do anything fun?"

"You got to ride dirty undercover with Bill Paxton,  while he devoured all scenery in sight"

Edited May 4, 2017 by Traveller519

[Minneapple]

Tripp flirting with Daisy and wondering if he hooked up with any of the ladies in the real world was the best. Also him taking care of Hope in the end. Aw. 

Fitz and Simmons kill me. Oh the angst.

Also Mack. Saying Hope is real, they watch movies together. Oh, Mack. There was some serious angst in this episode and I can't.

[UNOSEZ]

If this behind enemy lines pilot show keeps Tripp off of shield... I'm gonna boycott that show... Give us Tripp marvel... Get it done 

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

One person on Tumblr went on a huge rant about how Fitz should have snapped out of it when Simmons was talking to him. That's certainly what Aida was afraid of. I'm glad it didn't because that would have been way too sappy and cliched. I like FitzSimmons but I enjoy the angst part of their relationship the most. The "And you dove through a hole in the universe for me!" scenes. Who knew these two cute nerds from England and Scotland respectively introduced in the pilot could bring such Buffy/Angel level pain?

People just want the typical happy ending cliches, which is why I appreciate that this show often tries to divert away from that. I love that he didn't just snap out of it. I think it'll become more impactful in upcoming episodes. Will Fitz be very angsty? Yeah, and it could get highly annoying. But since Fitz has always been a favourite character of mine, I am excited to see the impact and how he deals with it. I, too, like the angst part of their relationship. Maybe it's because I've never been interested in the romantic part, but I like when Elizabeth and Iain get heavier work to do. It's so much more interesting for me to watch.

I also got attached to the Framework. It's hard not to see why Mack would willingly stay. I believe Hope is real, and I know she isn't! Just get her to HYDRA, Mack, and get her in that machine! Maybe Daisy will reprogram herself into the Framework to get him, Hope, and Tripp out. 

[greekmom]

I was super confused with the end with Aida teleporting with Fitz, Mack staying in the framework and no resolve to the whole issue.   

Edited May 3, 2017 by greekmom
i thought this was the last episode for the season. i was wrong.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

I was super confused with the end with Aida teleporting with Fitz, Mack staying in the framework and no resolve to the whole issue.   

My guess is that Aida did more than make herself human, limited by the imagination of the Darkhold Ophelia went further and had Leopold make her Inhuman.

As far as Mac after the Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2 promo

Spoiler

was the SHIELD promo were Mac's human body was imperil stay tuned, s 

What was strange was it seems as if the Zephyr One runs like the starship Enterprise. Jet fuel for 10 days or overheating engines wasn't the problem but rather keeping electrical energy to run its computers and climate control. I was hoping that they had landed and we were going to get another Yo-yo special of how her team hide Jemma and Daisy

Edited May 3, 2017 by Raja

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But since Fitz has always been a favourite character of mine, I am excited to see the impact and how he deals with it. I, too, like the angst part of their relationship. Maybe it's because I've never been interested in the romantic part, but I like when Elizabeth and Iain get heavier work to do. It's so much more interesting for me to watch.

I enjoy both characters, and I do like it when Henstridge and De Caestecker get meaty scenes to play, but I don't like how transparently goal-oriented this storyline has been: the "Fitz! Angst! Yay!" driver of the plot is frustrating me. I continue to find the "change one person in someone's life, and that someone becomes a neo-Nazi douchebag with no conscience or apparent critical thinking skills" theory, shall we say, uncompelling. So my feelings are mixed, even if I'm sure that these two will make something watchable, at the very least.

I need to see Ophelia ("Geddit? '0-Feel Ya'? 'Cause she has zero feels!") suffer horribly and die humiliated. I think I'm a bad person.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Sandman
I forgot the end of a sentence; I was distracted by loathing for Miss Binary Bitca

[paigow]

Where is the Superior? He should have been standing in front of Coulson holding a big knife - waiting for the Westworld 3D printer to finish AIDA.

[Raja]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Where is the Superior? He should have been standing in front of Coulson holding a big knife - waiting for the Westworld 3D printer to finish AIDA.

Perhaps seeing to the intercept of Zephyr One, can't leave that mission to inferiors.

[VCRTracking]

I also love May in the Framework calling Simmons a "pop tart"!

[Traveller519]

57 minutes ago, Raja said:

Perhaps seeing to the intercept of Zephyr One, can't leave that mission to inferiors.

Yup! We were supposed to piece that together since he was leading the charge on finding them, and the various SHIELD Redshirts (who did a good job, in my opinion!) mentioned it was a Russian fighter jet that was tracking them.

I appreciate that the show gives its audience enough credit to not have to lay all those things out. It lets us put some of the puzzle pieces together. Not everything needs to be a big reveal!

Speaking of the crew in the Zephyr, I assume they now have to reconnect with Coulson and May. Jemma knows the location of the platform. Can she get them there? She's also expecting Fitz to be there. She's going to be seriously let down when she learns what happened to him. And how does the Russian chasing them fit into all of this? Aida hasn't followed through on getting him is body. And he can't kill people as an LMD, what's his end game going to be?

They're setting up for an excellent finale. They have really finally found their stride, I just hope it's not too late.

[marceline]

I've been enjoying this story arc just as much as others but this episode brought up two tropes that always frustrate the hell out of me. 

The first was Simmons basically turning into Lois Lane. All the "We have to save Fitz!" and going rogue just worked my nerves. I never like when someone decides to endanger a whole mission and go off on their own. Especially when all they seem to be able to do is yell stuff like "The real X is still in there!" Yeah, I know he crossed dimensions for her, blah, blah, blah but the Fitzsimmons romance has never been something I was into.

The other was mentioned earlier. Having to convince someone to jump through the portal even when you're being closed in on by people with guns. I know that they didn't know that the Zephyr was being fired upon but I hate when people hesitate right before the escape and end up putting other people at risk.

That said, it never occurred to me that everyone would retain their memories from their time in Framework. I simply assumed a deus ex machina. There's going to be a LOT for these characters to make peace with and putting the bulk of the burden on Fitz is a good story decision. The memory of all the people he killed and life with his father is going to eat away at him along with the memory of Jemma killing his dad. He's also going to remember his "love" for Ophelia which will cause even more conflict one either Jemma kills her or he's forced to kill her to save Simmons. (That's conjecture not spoiler.)

I was a little puzzled by the way Coulson lifted May out of her Framework pod. At first I thought it was a nod towards the romance that seemed to growing between him and alt-May but then I realized that May was immobilized and imprisoned by Aida for weeks before everyone else. It makes sense that her muscles would atrophy.

Edited May 4, 2017 by marceline

[ohjoy]

11 minutes ago, marceline said:

That said, it never occurred to me that everyone would retain their memories from their time in Framework. I simply assumed a deus ex machina. There's going to be a LOT for these characters to make peace with and putting the bulk of the burden on Fitz is a good story decision. The memory of all the people he killed and life with his father is going to eat away at him along with the memory of Jemma killing his dad. He's also going to remember his "love" for Ophelia which will cause even more conflict one either Jemma kills her or he's forced to kill her to save Simmons. (That's conjecture not spoiler.)

For some reason I separated their memories from their feelings in my assumption; I assumed they would remember (thus Fitz's impending guilt and remorse over the deaths he caused), but it never occurred to me that they might have to deal with residual emotions. Fitz calling AIDA "Ophelia" outside of the Framework threw me, but now I think you're right -- his emotions might be conflicted, even as he knows in his head what's right (or real) and what's not. (UGH UGH UGH I hate love triangles. Any love triangles.)

 

16 minutes ago, marceline said:

I was a little puzzled by the way Coulson lifted May out of her Framework pod. At first I thought it was a nod towards the romance that seemed to growing between him and alt-May but then I realized that May's was immobilized and imprisoned by Aida for weeks before everyone else. It makes sense that her muscles would atrophy.

I had the exact same thought process. Man this Framework arc has been a ride; I almost completely forgot that May has been stuck in that thing for half the season!

[blackwing]

This was a great episode.  Disappointed that Mack chose to stay.  Maybe there is still hope to get him out?  I was puzzled by the complete absence of Ward.  If he's done and not coming to the real world, I would have thought there would have been some more closure.  Would love to find a way for the show to create bodies for Ward and Tripp.  They need to come back.

Regarding the creation of Ophelia's body in the real world, I didn't fully follow what happened.  Was Framework Ophelia a human or an LED?  I thought within the Framework she would have been human.  But if she was human then how did she survive that fall from the window when she got Quaked?  And why does scanning her body in the Framework make her a human body in the real world?

Radcliffe died in the real world.  I'm curious as to what would have happened if Framework Radcliffe had tried to go through the portal.

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, marceline said:

That said, it never occurred to me that everyone would retain their memories from their time in Framework. I simply assumed a deus ex machina.

I've been dreading the idea that the emotional consequences of what characters did in the Framework would be the eventual & entire point of the storyline; I guess it never occurred to me that they wouldn't retain their memories of their time there. That being said, I was still a little thrown by Fitz's addressing AIDA as "Ophelia" back on this side. I am also assuming that there will be a deus ex machina solution offered by the end of the season, to absolve, retrieve or otherwise "fix" the characters.

Mack's decision to remain in a comforting fantasy life is one of the more disturbing ideas this show has come up with, I think.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Sandman

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

Perhaps seeing to the intercept of Zephyr One, can't leave that mission to inferiors.

He made it seem that he was delegating..."When THEY get a lock, THEY will destroy it"

[tv echo]

Some clarifications on this episode by the showrunners...

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. bosses on aftermath of Framework escape
NATALIE ABRAMS MAY 3, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/03/agents-shield-framework-exit-spoilers/

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: How will everyone deal with what happened in the Framework now that they’re back in the real world?
JED WHEDON: When they come back, they have their full memories of what happened.
MAURISSA TANCHAROEN: It’s two lives worth of memories.

So for people like Fitz and May, who did Madame Hydra’s bidding the whole time, what is that like for them moving forward?
WHEDON: I think that they will struggle with it, some more than others. May has a pretty dark outlook on life as it is, but I think for Fitz, it would be something that will define him for the rest of his life.
JEFFREY BELL: And for others, like Coulson, he knows some stuff historically, like how did you know that? He goes, “Oh, I was a history teacher,” so he’s actually got this whole other life to draw upon from the Framework that can form who he is in this one. So, it’s as if they’ve lived two whole lives.

Now that they’re out of the Framework, how awkward will it be for May and Coulson after his faux-relationship with LMD May? 
TANCHAROEN: I think we play into that awkwardness pretty heavily.
BELL: And not to mention that Coulson still has a little bit of that goofy history teacher in him, so that awkwardness definitely plays. It’s always fun to see him when he’s the —
WHEDON: —every man—
BELL: —who can go in and talk his way out of some situations.
TANCHAROEN: And levity’s in his performance.
BELL: And a fanboy, like when he gets to meet the Patriot, it was really fun for him to play it as golly gee whiz.
TANCHAROEN: I think the Framework was definitely an opportunity for everyone across the board — for the writers and for the actors — to just have a bit of a nice reset in a way.
BELL: Yes, a palate cleanser. You don’t want our actors to get bored playing the same thing every week.
TANCHAROEN: Well, they all did really well. They did everything we threw at them. They loved it.
BELL: Yeah, the Framework’s been a lot of fun for us this last block of stories.

Anything the LMD versions were saying is something that the person would have said; they just have no inhibitions.
TANCHAROEN: Well, you just don’t know where the programming ends and their real feelings begin.
*  *  *
But would he [Mack] actually be living? What happens if the Framework goes offline?
BELL: He would go off with it.
TANCHAROEN: That’s why

 

Yo-Yo will take desperate measures to try and bring him back.
BELL: She has her work cut out for her. She has to convince a man who doesn’t know who she is that he should choose her over his own daughter.
WHEDON: And I don’t think that’s a task that she’s going to be super stoked about.
BELL: And so Yo-Yo has to then try and persuade him, hoping that him seeing her, perhaps it would trigger something, maybe he’ll remember her or maybe not.

Edited May 3, 2017 by tv echo

[HawaiiTVGuy]

A couple questions...why did they need to scan Madame Hydra's body in the framework in order to get the template for AIDA's human body?  Because AIDA's body is robotic?  Oh and anyone else thought it would have been HILARIOUS if the new body in the real world came out with multiple compound fractures...because isn't that what Madame Hydra's body had when it was scanned?  I was personally thinking that and thought it would have been a funny yet theoretically scientifically accurate way of ending AIDA haha.

So...if they needed to scan Madame Hydra versus AIDA to get a "human" template, then how could they get a body for the Superior?  He is currently an android too right?  My guess is that AIDA can't be defeated, the only way to neutralize her is to trap her in the Framework as well.  Maybe after Fitz somehow deceives her and betrays her, and thus she will have her one big regret, not being able to have Fitz.

My guess is going to be this, there is going to be a full-blown revolution now, HYDRA is in disarray now that Fitz is no longer around, the populace is being exposed to the truth and now Inhumans will be coming out and pretty much leading the revolution against HYDRA minions.  Radcliffe is still alive in the Framework, my guess is he will go to find Mac and Ward etc and tell them about the body copying machine in HYDRA.  Mac and Ward will find it and Mac will try to create a body for Hope but Hope will convince him that it isn't right and send Mac on his way.

Oh and can someone help me out, I think I missed it, but how exactly did Fitz and Simmons locate a quinjet with Framework network computers installed?

[paigow]

The Backdoor still has a molten cover....Mack needs someone to either recode, or find another Framework!Inhuman if he eventually decides to leave..... 

[Nalan]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

This was a great episode.  Disappointed that Mack chose to stay.  Maybe there is still hope to get him out?

They were just starting him and Yo-Yo.  I don't see them getting rid of this budding romance just yet, so yeah, I think he'll get out.

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I was puzzled by the complete absence of Ward.  If he's done and not coming to the real world, I would have thought there would have been some more closure.  Would love to find a way for the show to create bodies for Ward and Tripp.  They need to come back.

Tripp needs to come back.  His time on the show was way too short, and he deserves another shot.  I feel like he hasn't had a chance to tell his story.  But to repeat what has already been said . . . Ward.  Is.  Gone.  He's not coming back.  Ever.  Let sleeping dogs lie.  The past should stay in the past.  That last appearance of his clearly was his last.  Let's move it along now.

[TVSpectator]

20 hours ago, Tiger said:

Wow.  That's all I got.  

I already thought FitzSimmons was done, but after tonight there is no writer on earth that could write them as a legitimate couple.  

 

Do you mean that Fitz shots Simmons? Honestly, they are probably going have Simmons forget that and just say that he was being "brainwashed" by AIDA and/or the Framework. 

[TVSpectator]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Where is the Superior? He should have been standing in front of Coulson holding a big knife - waiting for the Westworld 3D printer to finish AIDA.

Yes, what happened to the Superior and now that AIDA/Madame Hydra knows that they want to destroy the Framework why hasn't she sent him to kill them?

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

I've been dreading the idea that the emotional consequences of what characters did in the Framework would be the eventual & entire point of the storyline; I guess it never occurred to me that they wouldn't retain their memories of their time there. That being said, I was still a little thrown by Fitz's addressing AIDA as "Ophelia" back on this side. I am also assuming that there will be a deus ex machina solution offered by the end of the season, to absolve, retrieve or otherwise "fix" the characters.

Mack's decision to remain in a comforting fantasy life is one of the more disturbing ideas this show has come up with, I think.

 

Well, that deus ex machina solution is probably

Spoiler

Robbie coming back, since it was already announced that Ghost Rider will return. Robbie is probably is going to be the one that will save everyone and everything, at the last minute, and then I wonder if he is going to rest everything as well?

 

[Enigma X]

I know this was for dramatic purposes, but why didn't Daisy lie and say Hope was alive and waiting on the other side?

[Raja]

4 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

 

So...if they needed to scan Madame Hydra versus AIDA to get a "human" template, then how could they get a body for the Superior?  He is currently an android too right?  My guess is that AIDA can't be defeated, the only way to neutralize her is to trap her in the Framework as well.  Maybe after Fitz somehow deceives her and betrays her, and thus she will have her one big regret, not being able to have Fitz.

 

The Superior's body is a remote controlled LMD body. How Aida was able to amputate his head and keep it alive in a glass bubble in order to remotely control the LMD is the trickier unanswered question. The only explanation is that the dark magic of the Darkhold made it possible.

[tennisgurl]

Stop causing me pain, show! I knew Mack wouldn't leave when he found out that Hope was dead in the real world, but that was super intense to watch. Please bring Mack and Hope into the real world! Her name is Hope damn it!

Speaking of pain, poor, Fitz. Him whimpering and panicking while Coulson tried to assure him he wasn't a bad person just killed me. I know that things tend to suck for everyone frequently, but things always seem to REALLY suck for Fitz. How is he going to deal with all of this? And then he instantly gets kidnapped by the crazy robot with a big, evil crush on him. I hope he doesn't end up getting too caught up in his Doctor memories and starts staying with Aida willingly. I just want him to be alright! And for him and Simmons to hug! Is that really so much to ask?!?! I think the reason they keep giving FitzSimmons so much angst is because Ian and Elizabeth are both so great at angst and sadness. They both give the most heartbreaking sad expressions and teary eyes. Remember the beginning of the show, when they were just super cute lab geeks? And now, several traumas later, I have no idea where their relationship goes from here. I don't at all blame Fitz for what Mengele Fitz did, but its still a series of hard images for Simmons to get out of her head.

Trip is so hilarious, I miss him a lot. His annoyance with the game of his real world counterpart was a nice bit of relief in the field of sadness.

This whole arc has been great, I'm really excited to see where its going, but I'm going to miss the Framework when we are finished!

[AKA...CJ86]

I thought the show wouldn't go there. I thought it was too obvious. If one character would decide to stay in the Framework, of course it would be Mack, but I didn't think it would actually happen. Somehow, by season's end, Mack will be restored, or... dead... and that's what worries me... this show loves killing the character's I love. And Yo-Yo... I can't deal, if the show isn't killing off my fave character's, it makes their lives miserable...

I just can't wait to see how Fitz knowing what he's done is handled... that has so much devastating potential. Knowing your actions in the Framework caused...kllled in the real world... how will Fitz recover from this...

I was glad Radcliffe didn't cave to Fitz and went out somewhat noble... well, for him anyway.

No good bye to Ward... absence was noticeable. 

[xqueenfrostine]

Another great episode!  I'd been anticipating the probability that Mack would never leave the Framework willingly ever since Hope was first introduced, but that didn't make seeing him make that decision any less painful.  Alphonso killed his monologue cataloging the ways in which Hope was real to him, in spite of what he had just seen.  It made total sense to me that he stayed.  I still hope they find a way to get him to come back to the real world (with or without hope).  I'd really miss his presence on the team, and I don't want yet another season to end with me having to say goodbye to beloved members of the team.  I still haven't completely gotten over the departure of Hunter and Bobbi!

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Some clarifications on this episode by the showrunners...

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. bosses on aftermath of Framework escape
NATALIE ABRAMS MAY 3, 2017 
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/03/agents-shield-framework-exit-spoilers/

So for people like Fitz and May, who did Madame Hydra’s bidding the whole time, what is that like for them moving forward?
WHEDON: I think that they will struggle with it, some more than others. May has a pretty dark outlook on life as it is, but I think for Fitz, it would be something that will define him for the rest of his life.
JEFFREY BELL: And for others, like Coulson, he knows some stuff historically, like how did you know that? He goes, “Oh, I was a history teacher,” so he’s actually got this whole other life to draw upon from the Framework that can form who he is in this one. So, it’s as if they’ve lived two whole lives.

This made me chuckle a bit as I can't imagine how useful his pseudo-past as a history teacher will be given that it was shown that HYDRA was creating "alternative history" even within the framework.  Who knows what kind of distortions of history Framework Coulson accepted as fact?

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I was puzzled by the complete absence of Ward.  If he's done and not coming to the real world, I would have thought there would have been some more closure.  

I actually thought his last scene in the previous episode had a lot of finality to it and was a good closing for the character.  I thought that was the point of his last conversation with Daisy, where they discussed the possibility of getting "his Skye" back.  I think we were supposed to believe that he, like Mack, had a life he was content to continue on with in the Framework.

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

Regarding the creation of Ophelia's body in the real world, I didn't fully follow what happened.  Was Framework Ophelia a human or an LED?  I thought within the Framework she would have been human.  But if she was human then how did she survive that fall from the window when she got Quaked?  

I'm pretty sure she was human within the framework.  A LMD body likely could have been repaired after a fall like that, whereas AIDA's framework body appeared to be permanently paralyzed after her fall.  As for why she didn't die, I suspect that because she wasn't a real human in the real world, she had different limitations within the framework than the human characters.  She, as an AI, wasn't programmed to experience death as we know it, and that might have made a difference in how her consciousness operated within the framework.

58 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I know this was for dramatic purposes, but why didn't Daisy lie and say Hope was alive and waiting on the other side?

The only reason I could figure was that she didn't think she could lie to him again because she was feeling pretty guilty about deceiving him into leaving Hope behind at the SHIELD base in order to get him to come with them to the exit point.  

[CaptainTightpants]

Of course the first thing that realgirlAIDA does is throw a giant smirk on her smug face! God I am tired of her smirks. 

I am wondering if she has multiple Inhuman abilities with her new body. Why just settle for teleportation, awesome as that is? I assume that if they have the ability to build a new body, and give it powers, why not have all of the powers they have come across so far? That could be interesting. 

It kind of gives me hope that they will maybe bring Mace back, as an actual inhuman this time. I know it is a reach, but I'm already missing Jason O'Mara from the show. He certainly leaves a gap in the cast! 

Also I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who is commenting about how Tripp NEEDS to come back to the main cast! He was adorable and awesome at the same time. I would love it if he an YoYo were made into series regulars. 

There was some pretty fantastic quips in this episode, but I think my favourite was from Coulson again "I'll be honest with you, 15 year olds are no joke". ?

Although, Mack's "They did NOT just go and use the Bible against me" was a close second!

I am absolutely relieved that May is back in the real world because I found the framework version to be unbearable, especially in this episode with all her doubt and contempt. I'm hoping that they ease her back a bit!

And finally, the special effects peeps deserve some recognition for the shockwave that goes through the framework after Coulson jumps through the backdoor! That was a spectacular visual! 

[MisterGlass]

Speaking of the Superior and his detached head, what do you think the range is?  I had this image of him having to lug the glass jar with his head with him wherever he goes, carrying it around under one arm.  I was waiting for Coulson to see the head on the table when he was looking around.

The didn't linger on it, but LMD Aida had a pretty gory death at the hands of Coulson and his scalpel. 

There is a surprising amount of body horror in this season.

22 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Was it just me, or did we have a missing scene at the beginning? Where was Ward? Was he killed? How did they get back to the Shield secret base?

I think the news footage they were watching at the beginning was from outside the TV studio where Ward and his team were making a stand.  It was a full scale revolt and still going.

[Raja]

21 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

Speaking of the Superior and his detached head, what do you think the range is?  I had this image of him having to lug the glass jar with his head with him wherever he goes, carrying it around under one arm.  I was waiting for Coulson to see the head on the table when he was looking around.

The didn't linger on it, but LMD Aida had a pretty gory death at the hands of Coulson and his scalpel. 

There is a surprising amount of body horror in this season.

I think the news footage they were watching at the beginning was from outside the TV studio where Ward and his team were making a stand.  It was a full scale revolt and still going.

He is going to mount his head in the LMD torso and become MODOK Superior. I made that prediction when it was first shown and I  am staying with it until the MCU brings back AIM and introduces a giant head MODOK 

It did seem like Hydra eventually won the TV station fight and Ward was in suicide mission mode when he found out the civilians turned out to help.

[rmontro]

On 5/2/2017 at 11:28 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head over how I thought this show was pretty weak when it premiered way back in 2013.  This somehow become not just the best comic book-based shows out there, but probably one of my favorite shows of any genre this season.  This is insane!

Yeah, that episode was as intense as any I can remember.  It's too bad Agents of Shield got kind of bad word of mouth when it started out, some people thought it was going to be The Avengers, and (like most series) it took a little while to find it's footing.  So it kind of got stuck at a low ratings point, but they've done some really good stories over the years.  Right now I'd have to say it's even better than the Marvel Netflix series.

I have a bad feeling we haven't seen the last of evil Fitz.  I wasn't sure he was going to snap completely back to reality when they brought him out of the Framework, but it looked like he did.  Unless he was blocking May from shooting Aida/Ophelia intentionally.

[Tiger]

Everytime I think this arc is going to zig, it doesnt zag but does something else I never anticipated. I was convinced that either Fitzler would replace Fitz, or it'd be a Jekyll & Hyde scenario.  I never imagined that all of them would retain their framework memories/experiences/lives and as Mo and Jed said essentially have "two lifetimes".  

I really hope the denouement of this arc is Mack showing up with his shotgun!axe and ending Aida.  But who the hell knows.  Whatever happens, I'm sure it'll kick-ass. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Tiger

[Sandman]

On 2017-05-03 at 7:56 PM, Enigma X said:

I know this was for dramatic purposes, but why didn't Daisy lie and say Hope was alive and waiting on the other side?

Because lying to their teammates has worked out so well for the S.H.I.E.L.D.lings in the past, I guess?

14 hours ago, Tiger said:

I really hope the denouement of this arc is Mack showing up with his shotgun!axe and ending Aida.  But who the hell knows.  Whatever happens, I'm sure it'll kick-ass. 

Dear Maurissa and Jed,

I have never asked you for anything, but I really, reallllly want this! I will praise this show and Dollhouse to the skies in front of everyone I know if I could just have this one thing. Pretty please?

Love, Sandman

Edited May 5, 2017 by Sandman
Because I can't believe I got Ms. Tancharoen's name wrong!

[Enigma X]

Between saving Mac's life or having him be really really pissed at me because I lied, I will choose him being really really pissed at me.

[mac123x]

17 hours ago, paigow said:

The Backdoor still has a molten cover....Mack needs someone to either recode, or find another Framework!Inhuman if he eventually decides to leave..... 

When Simmons and Daisy went into the Framework, Simmons built in an escape route for them.  AIDA found it and destroyed it, so they needed to use the backdoor that Radcliffe built in that AIDA couldn't delete.  If they send someone else back in to rescue Mack, whoever goes in could take another temporary escape thingy with them.

[Chaos Theory]

It all comes down to whether the writers think AoS is getting another season. 

I can legitimately see Mack and Hope getting a happing ending BUT in the Framework.  

I can see Fitz not being able to live with what he did in the Framework but still being conflicted by his love for both Aida and Jemma and ultimately taking a bullet meant for one or both of them.

Of course both only work if the show is ending.  Well I would buy the Mack and Hope ending regardless but that is just me. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[blackwing]

Unfortunately, most reports I've seen in the media label AoS as a bubble show and say the ratings have been not so good.  However, with "Inhumans" coming, maybe ABC will keep AoS around to have more tie-ins?

I would be surprised if the writers wrap things up nicely by the season finale.  There will almost certainly be cliffhangers or new developments.  The writers probably would have had no reason to believe the show might not get renewed at the time they scripted the arc.

I know it would be nice to see Mack get an ending that is happy... but I don't necessarily feel like it has to happen.  No matter what happens to him, since we have seen that they retain their Framework memories, it won't be fully happy.  If he stays in the Framework, then he remains with Hope in an artificial world that could cease to exist as soon as Ophelia/AIDA pulls the plug.  And then there would be a devastated Yo Yo.  If he comes back to the real world, then he loses Hope and that would be awful for him... but he would have Yo Yo.  I get that people want him to be back in the real world with Hope, but that would be cheap if it happens.  The whole point was that he was being forced to make a difficult choice, he couldn't have it both ways.

Plus, where is it dictated that everyone gets to be happy?  Where was the happy ending for Tripp?  He just suddenly crumbled to dust and that was it.  Where was the happy ending for Lincoln?  Or Bobbi Morse and Lance Hunter?  Those two disappeared presumably to some kind of witness protection and the actors thought they were getting their own show, then it got yanked.