Joe & Kendra: Looking Forward To Side Hugs

[emmawoodhouse]

Joe, Jed, and Jer allegedly still attend the Caldwell's church. 

[Zella]

17 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Joe, Jed, and Jer allegedly still attend the Caldwell's church. 

Ooooh that's interesting. Joe I get since he's married into the Caldwell family. Jed and Jer make for a more interesting story. I feel like it would be pretty awkward to not have your regular pastor be your officiant at your wedding but still invite him, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. 

[emmawoodhouse]

I think Jed was kind of a leader at Lighthouse Baptist. At any rate, it seems that he has some prestige there that he wouldn't have at a new church. I assume the pastor who married them was connected to the Nakatsus. Wanna bet that they attend whatever church the Duggars are at now? 😁

Edited April 5, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[cmr2014]

I think they look good. Everyone looks clean and well put together, and appropriate for a wedding or for an Easter service. Contrast that with the Duggars at ANY wedding or church service.

[Temperance]

Lauren's dress looks a slightly different color than Kendra's dress and I think maybe the sleeves were different.  Joe was definitely a groomsman. 

5 hours ago, Zella said:

Ooooh that's interesting. Joe I get since he's married into the Caldwell family. Jed and Jer make for a more interesting story. I feel like it would be pretty awkward to not have your regular pastor be your officiant at your wedding but still invite him, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. 

I don't think it's too awkward, especially since the bride's family may have chosen him.  Fundie weddings are big networking events, so it makes sense for the Caldwells to go. 

[GeeGolly]

This is interesting. The Caldwells have those pictures, and a few more, posted with "HAPPY RESURRECTION SUNDAY". But between the matching dresses, the flower arch and Joe's boutonniere, the pics seem to be wedding pictures. Even Kendra's and Lauren's hair is done the same.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNQgBKzsSpo/

[BitterApple]

How old is Brooklyn? She looks really scrawny.

[Spazamanaz]

Just now, BitterApple said:

How old is Brooklyn? She looks really scrawny.

She was born February 19th. So she isn't even 2 months old yet.

[GeeGolly]

Yup, those pictures were taking on the wedding day. Below you can see the flower arch and 'stage'. It seems the bridesmaids wore dresses of a similar style of different pastel colors.

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

I guess she had to take her since she’s nursing?  Why would she put tights that are at least 6 sizes too big on that baby?  Just swaddle her in a blanket to keep her legs and feet warm.  

Definitely not the best solution she's got there. 

But if I had three kids of those ages, had to get everybody including myself dressed up to go to (another darn!) wedding, and was married to a Duggar guy who may have a very odd -- and limited -- view of what jobs a dad does, I expect I'd be moving too fast to think clearly about a lot of things!

I envision a "Grab the first thing I see and go" scenario.

I sure hope they slow the baby train because I don't know how long anybody can keep this up and also keep smiling -- and Kendra's sunny disposition is a wonderful thing about her and, hopefully, for her too. But they need some family planning, stat, seems to me. Joe's reputation makes it seem he'll be inhospitable to that idea, but here's hoping that won't be the case. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

38 minutes ago, Spazamanaz said:

She was borp19th. So she isn't even 2 months old yet.

And she's already been to two giant weddings. Poor kid.

If I have to go to two big weddings within a two-year period, it annoys me. Especially if one or more involves distance travel. 😁

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

7 hours ago, Temperance said:

I don't think it's too awkward, especially since the bride's family may have chosen him.  Fundie weddings are big networking events, so it makes sense for the Caldwells to go. 

In a normal situation, I'd tend to agree, but since the Naktutsus only have been in Arkansas for a few months apparently and the officiant is attached to the new church the Duggars attend and there's been a falling-out with the old church and Jed is apparently still attending the old church, it makes me think that was Jim Bob's preference, not Jed's or Katey's. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Zella

[cmr2014]

21 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Definitely not the best solution she's got there. 

But if I had three kids of those ages, had to get everybody including myself dressed up to go to (another darn!) wedding, and was married to a Duggar guy who may have a very odd -- and limited -- view of what jobs a dad does, I expect I'd be moving too fast to think clearly about a lot of things!

I envision a "Grab the first thing I see and go" scenario.

I sure hope they slow the baby train because I don't know how long anybody can keep this up and also keep smiling -- and Kendra's sunny disposition is a wonderful thing about her and, hopefully, for her too. But they need some family planning, stat, seems to me. Joe's reputation makes it seem he'll be inhospitable to that idea, but here's hoping that won't be the case. 

I honestly hope this about all of them -- but by "slow the baby train" I mean "stop the baby train."

I agree that Joe would probably freak out about the idea of any sort of family planning, but I also think it's up to Kendra. If she wanted to, he'd go along. I think that she's still deep in the koolaid and wants to do her duty as Gothard defines it, and would be scared to say anything that might imply she wasn't "joyfully available" for whatever the Lord wants of her.

I hope that one of them is brave enough to suggest it before Kendra is drowned in small children.

 

[BitterApple]

Just now, cmr2014 said:

I honestly hope this about all of them -- but by "slow the baby train" I mean "stop the baby train."

I agree that Joe would probably freak out about the idea of any sort of family planning, but I also think it's up to Kendra. If she wanted to, he'd go along. I think that she's still deep in the koolaid and wants to do her duty as Gothard defines it, and would be scared to say anything that might imply she wasn't "joyfully available" for whatever the Lord wants of her.

I hope that one of them is brave enough to suggest it before Kendra is drowned in small children.

 

I agree. I don't think Joe would force his wife to have kids she can't handle, however he doesn't strike me as someone who's sensitive enough to notice if she's struggling. Kendra is so deep into the "keep sweet" mindset, I think Joe takes her surface emotions at face value and doesn't question if they're genuine. 

 

[rue721]

I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that Kendra is in charge of the baby train and Joe would demur to her! He doesn't seem like a horrible person, but he seems as much of a true believer in their patriarchal fertility cult as Kendra or any of the others.

My assumption is that he expects Kendra to be joyfully available and breed for Jesus. That's her duty as a Christian woman, in their brand of "Christianity."

Not that I think Kendra disagrees in theory, but in practice I think it's too much for her and it's starting to freak her out.

Edited April 5, 2021 by rue721

[Tikichick]

28 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I honestly hope this about all of them -- but by "slow the baby train" I mean "stop the baby train."

I agree that Joe would probably freak out about the idea of any sort of family planning, but I also think it's up to Kendra. If she wanted to, he'd go along. I think that she's still deep in the koolaid and wants to do her duty as Gothard defines it, and would be scared to say anything that might imply she wasn't "joyfully available" for whatever the Lord wants of her.

I hope that one of them is brave enough to suggest it before Kendra is drowned in small children.

 

And there was JB on last week's episode, happily contemplating not only counting on, but ciphering with extreme hopefulness to the level that will number his grandchildren to potentially 200 or more.   

[MargeGunderson]

19 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that Kendra is in charge of the baby train and Joe would demur to her! He doesn't seem like a horrible person, but he seems as much of a true believer in their patriarchal fertility cult as Kendra or any of the others.

My assumption is that he expects Kendra to be joyfully available and breed for Jesus. That's her duty as a Christian woman, in their brand of "Christianity."

Not that I think Kendra disagrees in theory, but in practice I think it's too much for her and it's starting to freak her out.

My guess is that it wouldn’t cross any of the male Duggars’ minds that their wives wouldn’t be 100% on the baby making train at all times (perhaps with the except of JD). It doesn’t seem like they spend much time thinking about their wives’ feelings or wants.

[cmr2014]

18 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I don't know where you guys are getting the idea that Kendra is in charge of the baby train and Joe would demur to her! He doesn't seem like a horrible person, but he seems as much of a true believer in their patriarchal fertility cult as Kendra or any of the others.

My assumption is that he expects Kendra to be joyfully available and breed for Jesus. That's her duty as a Christian woman, in their brand of "Christianity."

Not that I think Kendra disagrees in theory, but in practice I think it's too much for her and it's starting to freak her out.

I could be wrong, but none of the Duggar sons (except Josh) strikes me as the kind of person who would force himself on his wife if she wanted to engage in natural family planning and refrain from sex a few days a month. 

While they were raised to believe they should have as many children as the Lord decides, the reality is not the same as the theory. I think neither one wants to be the first person to say it out loud. 

Even Josh would, I think, be thrilled to slow (stop) the baby train.

[Heathen]

7 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

Even Josh would, I think, be thrilled to slow (stop) the baby train.

Josh would have been happy with two kids, I think. He was visibly unhappy when M3 was announced. 

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

My guess is that it wouldn’t cross any of the male Duggars’ minds that their wives wouldn’t be 100% on the baby making train at all times (perhaps with the except of JD). It doesn’t seem like they spend much time thinking about their wives’ feelings or wants.

The bold is IMO one of the most common Duggar states of being.    It seems to be THE state of being for several of them.

[Churchhoney]

35 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think neither one wants to be the first person to say it out loud. 

 

I think this is a huge part of the problem.

I'll bet most of them are pretty much afraid there might be in-this-world (from the Duggs' bank account and make-work-job-dispensing function) and eternal consequences for being the person who effectively leads a revolution on this point. 

JB's wallet is a vital backstop for all these families, I expect. (and maybe some other parental wallets, too?) 

And a heckuva lot of them also seem to be deep in the superstitious aspects of their extreme Christian beliefs, too. That's how those beliefs have been taught to them. It's been a lot about feelings of guilt and feelings of being saved and near-hocus-pocus practices to save yourself from eternal damnation. More rational thought about morals and such has come into their religious practice seldom if at all, looks like to me. So their faith is all about huge emotions implanted in children who aren't even conscious of what's happening and superstitious fears. That can be strong influence through life.

So "who has the nerve to make the potentially JB-and-Christ-alienating suggestion first?" is probably a very scary question to them. Talking realistically isn't a common activity in the TTH, in their cult or in most of the churches they attend, I expect. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Shelbie]

I’ve always wondered how many individually have wanted to stop the endless babies but say nothing to their spouse because that is supposed to be the basis of their marriages. 
For all we know they have all had these thoughts but since they feel they can’t discuss it the baby train will just keep chugging along. 

[Tikichick]

27 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I think this is a huge part of the problem.

I'll bet most of them are pretty much afraid there might be in-this-world (from the Duggs' bank account and make-work-job-dispensing function) and eternal consequences for being the person who effectively leads a revolution on this point. 

JB's wallet is a vital backstop for all these families, I expect. (and maybe some other parental wallets, too?) 

And a heckuva lot of them also seem to be deep in the superstitious aspects of their extreme Christian beliefs, too. That's how those beliefs have been taught to them. It's been a lot about feelings of guilt and feelings of being saved and near-hocus-pocus practices to save yourself from eternal damnation. More rational thought about morals and such has come into their religious practice seldom if at all, looks like to me. So their faith is all about huge emotions implanted in children who aren't even conscious of what's happening and superstitious fears. That can be strong influence through life.

So "who has the nerve to make the potentially JB-and-Christ-alienating suggestion first?" is probably a very scary question to them. Talking realistically isn't a common activity in the TTH, in their cult or in most of the churches they attend, I expect. 

IMO the bold is by JB's design.   Biology might have ended Michelle's ability to remain in the season of life where she could keep birthing babies in perpetuity, but nothing is going to halt JB's perpetual headship over as many of  his children as he can possibly keep an iron fisted control over.  

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, Shelbie said:

I’ve always wondered how many individually have wanted to stop the endless babies but say nothing to their spouse because that is supposed to be the basis of their marriages. 
For all we know they have all had these thoughts but since they feel they can’t discuss it the baby train will just keep chugging along. 

At this stage, the only super breeders are Anna and Kendra. I think both are fully on board the baby train, even if it kills them. Josh hates it but can't do anything about it, Joe is fine because he's not doing the majority of the grunt work.

I think Bin and Jessa have hit this point with #4. Bin's bored disinterest at the ultrasound reminded me of someone in a dentist's office waiting room. Jessa doesn't enjoy her kids, but she's desperate to keep the show going.

Aside from Joy, who had three pregnancies in quick succession, the rest (Abbie, Lauren, Jill, Jinger) don't seem eager to have mega-families.

We'll see with Katey and Claire...

 

[Ohiopirate02]

I don't see Kendra on the Duggar Baby Train like Anna.  When I look at Joe and Kendra, I see a couple who like sex.  They aren't mapping out her fertility in order to have sex when she is ovulating.  Kendra is getting pregnant too fast for that to happen.  They had 3 kids in 3.5 years.  Has Kendra ever had 2 or 3 consecutive months of not being pregnant to even figure out her cycle? 

The baby train should start to slow down now that they have 3 kids under 3.  Unless Joe really is that good, and Kendra doesn't mind it.  Hey, my grandparents had 9 kids in 11 years and Lois would have had no problem telling my grandfather not tonight.  Some couples are really compatible and lucky (or unlucky). 

[3 is enough]

I think those photos are from yesterday.  Joe just wore the same suit and never bothered to remove the boutonniere from the day before.  It's possible Kendra and her sister were wearing old bridesmaids dresses. Everyone else seems to be in blue.  Maybe Kendra did not have a blue dress and arranged this with her sister.  I think they are quite close.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, 3 is enough said:

I think those photos are from yesterday.  Joe just wore the same suit and never bothered to remove the boutonniere from the day before.  It's possible Kendra and her sister were wearing old bridesmaids dresses. Everyone else seems to be in blue.  Maybe Kendra did not have a blue dress and arranged this with her sister.  I think they are quite close.

If they were taken yesterday they went back to where the ceremony took place. And that would mean they left the flower garland up.

[3 is enough]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If they were taken yesterday they went back to where the ceremony took place. And that would mean they left the flower garland up.

Sorry, I did not pay that much attention.  I guess the reports of the falling out were exaggerated then.  Unless the Bride's family are friends of the Caldwells.

Edited April 5, 2021 by 3 is enough

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Sorry, I did not pay that much attention.  I guess the reports of the falling out were exaggerated then.  Unless the Bride's family are friends of the Caldwells.

No need to apologize.

I'm not sure where the fallout speculation came from, but I find most of these rumors to be quite exaggerated and some are totally made up.

Maybe the Duggars switched churches and maybe it has nothing to do with Mr Caldwell. Maybe the Duggars went to another church once or twice. Or maybe the Duggars still attend the Caldwell church. Who knows?

[crazy8s]

a sort of assumed the pics were from the wedding, or maybe the church of the duggars reused the setting and saved the difference for a "Resurrection Day" sunrise service.

The same clothing though makes no sense. Now I am thinking they were all like "we got a good pic at the wedding" let's use that for our resurrection day post

Caldwells for sure usually post a group easter pic. If they had a nice one from the day before, why bother staging the fam again

Edited April 5, 2021 by crazy8s

[Churchhoney]

24 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Sorry, I did not pay that much attention.  I guess the reports of the falling out were exaggerated then.  Unless the Bride's family are friends of the Caldwells.

Well, I don't know if there's a good relationship between Joe and Jed!. But if there is, then that could account for having the Caldwells at the wedding, even if there is some level of coldness between the Caldwell parents and JB/M at this point. Some have suggested that Jed! and Jer have been closely involved in the Caldwell's church and still go there, for example. So that would make Caldwell still the groom's pastor, whether he's currently speaking to the groom's father or not. 

I don't think this is a particularly unusual thing to happen. Jill and Derick were at the Texas wedding, for example. And they don't seem to be speaking to Jim Bob nor he to them. 

I've certainly been to big weddings where some of the people attending weren't any longer best buds of everyone in the bride's or groom's family, including of the parents-of-bride/groom.  But where the relationships they did have were strong enough so that they were inevitably invited and inevitably came.

And I've never been to a big wedding where I ran into everybody who was there......so, you know, you can be fighting with somebody who's prominent in the wedding party yet never be in a situation where you and that person get close enough to speak. 

It's perfectly possible the whole story of a JB/Caldwell argument is phony. But I don't think the Caldwells' presence at the wedding decides that issue one way or the other. 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

a sort of assumed the pics were from the wedding, or maybe the church of the duggars reused the setting and saved the difference for a "Resurrection Day" sunrise service.

The same clothing though makes no sense. Now I am thinking they were all like "we got a good pic at the wedding" let's use that for our resurrection day post

Caldwells for sure usually post a group easter pic. If they had a nice one from the day before, why bother staging the fam again

A Duggar Sunrise Service?!?  With Duggar time, I bet that starts at 9:30.

[Twopper]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

IMO the bold is by JB's design.   Biology might have ended Michelle's ability to remain in the season of life where she could keep birthing babies in perpetuity, but nothing is going to halt JB's perpetual headship over as many of  his children as he can possibly keep an iron fisted control over.  

well, maybe he  will discover "Biblical Polygamy."

I have been binge-watching Sister Wives and several times they have interacted with families that claim to be Biblical polygs.  They consist of men who open the OT and see that certain men practiced polygamy so it must be God's plan.   I hate the "Seeking Sister Wife"  cast, but I would be excited to see the senior Duggars on it.  

[Temperance]

I don't see Joe and Kendra stopping the baby train soon. Hopefully they'll at least slow down.

It's too soon to tell about the newlyweds. .Excluding the two newlywed couples, no one else is going at the rate of Joe and Kendra and I get the sense most of them would be okay with slowing or stopping the baby train.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by Temperance

[Tikichick]

I've never heard of any friction between the Duggars and the Caldwells until this discussion today, but I believe someone else mentioned recently that Kendra's dad is a mechanic?   I never heard that before either, and I'm not entirely sure I'm correct, but if so could there possibly be some problem coming out of someone bringing a car to Kendra's dad for repair that turned out to be a dud from a Duggar car lot, or some nexus like that?

[Zella]

The rumors of a fallout came from WOACB. I would usually take it with a massive grain of salt, but she did have an inside scoop on the Jedding, and I do find it weird that Pa Caldwell didn't conduct the ceremony if the Duggars were still part of his congregation. I think rumor-wise, this one is more likely to be true than some of the other weird stuff that circulates on the internet about the Duggars. 

I don't think anyone has conclusively identified the man who officiated the wedding. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Zella

[ginger90]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

but I believe someone else mentioned recently that Kendra's dad is a mechanic?   I never heard that before either

There was an episode where he was working on a vehicle. Not sure he is/was a mechanic.

[Churchhoney]

13 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I've never heard of any friction between the Duggars and the Caldwells until this discussion today, but I believe someone else mentioned recently that Kendra's dad is a mechanic?   I never heard that before either, and I'm not entirely sure I'm correct, but if so could there possibly be some problem coming out of someone bringing a car to Kendra's dad for repair that turned out to be a dud from a Duggar car lot, or some nexus like that?

Paul Caldwell's a pastor who at least used to be a mechanic on the side because his church was brand new and at that point it couldn't pay enough to cover his bills, allegedly. He'd certainly not be the only pastor in that situation, especially among pastors with brand-new planted churches in places where a gazillion churches exist already, like in Northwest Arkansas. In that role, he supposedly inspired whichever young Duggar once said he aspired to be a pastor-mechanic... Justin? Jason? Some low-level Howler or other....There were photos of this young Duggar hanging out with PC, who was supposedly serving as a role model for the young Duggar pastor-mechanic. 

Anyway, don't know if PC's still a pastor-mechanic now. His church may have grown enough so that he doesn't need the two jobs......In any case, it certainly is possible that a car thing -- or a religion thing -- could have caused a disagreement. Those things do happen! 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Paul Caldwell's a pastor who at least used to be a mechanic on the side because his church was brand new and at that point it couldn't pay enough to cover his bills, allegedly. He'd certainly not be the only pastor in that situation, especially among pastors with brand-new planted churches in places where a gazillion churches exist already, like in Northwest Arkansas. In that role, he supposedly inspired whichever young Duggar once said he aspired to be a pastor-mechanic? Justin? Jason? Some low-level Howler or other....

Anyway, don't know if PC's still a pastor-mechanic now. His church may have grown enough so that he doesn't need the two jobs......In any case, it certainly is possible that a car thing -- or a religion thing -- could have caused a disagreement. Those things do happen! 

When I hear JB and falling out with anybody my intuition tells me his money or his control have been threatened.

[Zella]

Just now, Tikichick said:

When I hear JB and falling out with anybody my intuition tells me his money or his control have been threatened.

That would be my guess too.

Per a comment WOACB made on one of her posts, she said that for awhile she hadn't received any specific information, but she has since been told that whatever it was started last spring in the church nursery and escalated into the Caldwells moving out of where they lived because Jim Bob started demanding rent. And also at some point in all of this, the Duggars stopped attending the Caldwell church. 

As I noted earlier, take with the requisite grain of salt, but I do think she is talking to somebody who knows the family, as evidenced by her getting the scoop on Jed's wedding. 

I'd wondered if there was any way to verify that the Caldwells had relocated. I don't follow their social media stuff. Have they clearly changed residences in the past year? 

[auntieminem]

Wasn't it Justin (yes, there is a Justin) who wanted to be a mechanic/ preacher and Caldwell was mentoring him?  There was a scene where they were working on a car together. They made it seem like Justin was a mechanic savant. 

[Jenniferbug]

I think the falling out rumors started on FJ. Someone with inside knowledge said that Caldwell said none of his other children would marry a Duggar, and someone asked why since he seems to like Joe and the poster said that there had been a falling out of some kind between the families, they didn't know the details of it, and that the families still associate because of the small social circle but are not on great terms anymore. The Duggars are supposedly attending a different church now, and the Caldwells moved out of a JB owned house into the house that had been intended for and is owned by Joe and Kendra. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, auntieminem said:

Wasn't it Justin (yes, there is a Justin) who wanted to be a mechanic/ preacher and Caldwell was mentoring him?  There was a scene where they were working on a car together. They made it seem like Justin was a mechanic savant. 

Yeah, I think you're right that it was Justin. 

I've long had a habit of getting Justin and Jason mixed up....!

Edited April 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Jenniferbug said:

I think the falling out rumors started on FJ. Someone with inside knowledge said that Caldwell said none of his other children would marry a Duggar, and someone asked why since he seems to like Joe and the poster said that there had been a falling out of some kind between the families, they didn't know the details of it, and that the families still associate because of the small social circle but are not on great terms anymore. The Duggars are supposedly attending a different church now, and the Caldwells moved out of a JB owned house into the house that had been intended for and is owned by Joe and Kendra. 

Yeah. The house where the Caldwells did that scavenger hunt thing (gender reveal for Christina's baby?) (with two stories) I believe was a house that Joe and Kendra had built, and it was originally intended for themselves. Evidently Joe and Kendra were fixin' to move out of the log cabin into their own house. But, when the Caldwells were displaced by JB, Joe and Kendra offered their (new) house to them, while they remained in the log cabin. Evidently the Caldwells were living in that original house rent-free, and then Boob wanted them to pay rent.

The Caldwells appear to get along with Joe fine, especially since he and Kendra helped them out. I wonder if they are living in the new house rent-free as well. And, because of this action, I heard that Joe and Boob weren't speaking for a while too. 

[cmr2014]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think this is a huge part of the problem.

I'll bet most of them are pretty much afraid there might be in-this-world (from the Duggs' bank account and make-work-job-dispensing function) and eternal consequences for being the person who effectively leads a revolution on this point. 

JB's wallet is a vital backstop for all these families, I expect. (and maybe some other parental wallets, too?) 

And a heckuva lot of them also seem to be deep in the superstitious aspects of their extreme Christian beliefs, too. That's how those beliefs have been taught to them. It's been a lot about feelings of guilt and feelings of being saved and near-hocus-pocus practices to save yourself from eternal damnation. More rational thought about morals and such has come into their religious practice seldom if at all, looks like to me. So their faith is all about huge emotions implanted in children who aren't even conscious of what's happening and superstitious fears. That can be strong influence through life.

So "who has the nerve to make the potentially JB-and-Christ-alienating suggestion first?" is probably a very scary question to them. Talking realistically isn't a common activity in the TTH, in their cult or in most of the churches they attend, I expect. 

I think that the tattling culture is a problem, too. I'm sure it is for the Duggar kidults, and probably is, as well, for the spouses who where were raised Gothard. You can't simply have a conversation with your spouse and assume that Daddy won't hear about it.

Back when Josh and Anna were in DC, I thought that they seemed to have reached a place in their marriage where they were actually talking to each other, and they both seemed kind of giddy about it. That, of course, all crashed and burned after the scandal, and I think that Anna is 100% back on the tattling train if Josh breathes even a word out of line.

I think it will be a while before either Joe or Kendra felt safe even broaching a subject like slowing down the baby train.

[GeeGolly]

Joe and Kendra built a house? How did that get by our super sleuths? And why can't the Caldwells pay their own way? They seem to take an awful lot of vacations for a family hurting for money.

It seems to me this Crystal Ball chick gets a lot of clicks talking about the Duggars. I've only watched maybe 5 minutes total of two of her videos. I have a hard time with any vlogger that still does the requisite, is my camera angle good, is my chair high enough, bullshit, to make their video longer, beyond their first few videos.

Maybe the rumor is true or maybe its gossip filler and its nothing more than the Caldwells moved. What's that saying? Even a blind pig finds acorns. This woman is bound to get somethings right every once in a while, but I believe most of what she says is made up, for click bait.

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Joe and Kendra built a house? How did that get by our super sleuths? And why can't the Caldwells pay their own way? They seem to take an awful lot of vacations for a family hurting for money.

Joe and Kendra bought a 10 acre wooded lot from JB in 2018. there does appear to be a large house on the lot.

Pictures of the property seem to match up with pics posted by the Caldwells. Bonfires, kids on a deck with a wooded area in the background.

I can't get the picture to load. it keeps saying the file is too big.

 

[SMama]

If true, that was very generous of Joe and Kendra to cede their new home to the Caldwells. They do have three kids under three in a two bedroom log cabin. IIRC I saw a video segment of Joe and Kendra talking about building a home. Kendra was her usual sweet self but it looked like they were both done living so close to the big house. I understand moving in temporarily if there was a fallout, but the Caldwells should provide for their brood and not mooch of their daughter and SIL. 

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

And why can't the Caldwells pay their own way? They seem to take an awful lot of vacations for a family hurting for money.

 

The Caldwells are in a dicey situation when it comes to making enough money for their large family, 

Their church is small. Has a very small parking lot. He planted the church, so it doesn't have any families with a generations-long history of going there. And that tends to limit the size of congregation because nobody inherits the habit of attending that institution. 

The church doesn't appear to be in a particularly prosperous area or on a business-type street where a lot of people would notice it. That's almost certainly because it would have been too expensive to build the church or buy a building in such a place, but it ultimately can limit the size, prominence and wealth status of your congregation. 

 Plus, Caldwell turned a fair number of people off several years ago when he spearheaded the local anti-gay-marriage crusade and included children going to door to door delivering pamphlets that stated that homosexuality does not exist as a natural phenomenon but is merely a bunch of people deliberately flouting God's law, among other things.  

A pastor's salary is obviously determined by what the congregation is able and willing to give him (or her, though "her" is obviously not operable in this case.) And if your church is small and many of your parishioners working class, that's going to limit what you make. 

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the mean wage for a pastor in Arkansas as of 2020 is around $50,000. So while it's hard to tell what the facts are with any individual, with Caldwell's church being quite small and fairly new, it seems likely as not that he's one of the 50 percent who make less than that.    

And, of course, unlike with many pastors his spouse does not, has not and will not ever work for pay. So they live on a single income. A lot of pastoral spouses have jobs of their own. 

Furthermore, fewer than 62 percent of American churches have a pastor who doesn't need to hold a second job to support his household, according to the 2015 version of a national survey that's done every five years (2020 version isn't complete yet). And the number of second-job holders had been steadily rising as of 2015, so there's no reason to imagine that things are financially better for pastors now than they were 6 years ago. We're rapidly approaching half of all pastors who need to hold second jobs. 

Meanwhile, Caldwell has 8 kids and one in process. And you can see by their clothes and such that they do like to keep up some appearances. So if you're not willing to dress yourself and your kids the way Duggars dress, you're going to need some money just for that.  Some of the trips they take do seem to be to retreats they're running and talks he gives and such, though, So at least some of the trips have pay attached. 

I suspect he moved from Virginia to Arkansas because he ultimately hoped to get into government, and Arkansas seemed a congenial place for an attractive-looking person with his views to gain major influence. But that didn't work out. 

https://www.augustachronicle.com/news/20190712/two-callings-pastors-lead-churches-work-second-jobs

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes212011.htm

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

Every pastor I know of a small church has an actual job because they are only paid for preaching on Sundays or the occasional wedding/funeral, and the amount is not much. It is sort of akin to somebody having a regular job and, say, deejaying on the side on the weekends. The ones who don't have jobs mooch professionally. 

I know larger churches provide a regular salary and possibly even housing, but I've never attended one like that.