S07.E12: Say Yes

[Nashville]

6 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Michonne (who's in the trunk) and Rick magically make it to the top of the car when there's zombies piled all around it.  Okay, sure.

Sunroof - Rick kicked it out.  And in most autos the only thing between the trunk and the passenger space is the rear seat backs, which wouldn't stand up very long against a determined lady with a sword.

[Nashville]

31 minutes ago, whiskeyandfeet said:

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the junkyard gang. Why the motherflip do they talk like Yoda?

WISH they talked like Yoda, they do.

[Black Knight]

Re: the talk about Rick inappropriately taking a vacation - he explained in his last major scene with Michonne what it really was...that is, delaying the day when a bunch of their people are going to get killed in the war against the Saviors. When he explained that, I let it go. He's being realistic about what's going to happen, and giving everyone he loves a couple more days of life. It wasn't just about having a personal vacation with his girlfriend.

[ShadowSixx]

I'm gonna say this first, Sasha & Rosita are being dumb right now. I know the need to kill Negan is a priority but strategy is the key here since there are so many Saviors. It's not Terminus or Woodbury where the numbers were limited. If there half ass blind planning results in Sasha being killed, I'm gonna be majorly pissed off. Sasha is one of my favorite characters. Rosita can die, I don't give a fuck about her. IDK why Sasha gives Rosita the time of day. 

Rosita thinks Rick is making excuses and not fighting immediately means he's delaying when they need weapons and people. WTF is wrong with her? Her also being a whiny asshole when she goes whining to FG about not finding any guns. Girl you were searching for one whole day, not gonna cover a lot of ground in 24 hours. Rick and Michonne found their guns in days not 24 hours. Rosita is such a stupid bitch.

I felt so bad for Michonne when she thought Rick was dead. She was just heartbroken and gone to where she wasn't going to defend herself against the walkers. Just dropped her sword. I probably be the same way too. 

I'm sure Tara is telling Rick about Oceanside, but I think they're gonna have trouble convincing Oceanside because they had to get away from Negan to where Saviors don't know where they are at and possibly don't want their location revealed.

[millennium]

I'm 45 minutes in and fairly certain that any one of those RTE bags contains more substance than this whole episode.   

[GreyBunny]

Yawn.

Michonne turned into a drip. (Rick seems to have this effect on his romantic interests.)  

Rosita became stupid and convinced Sasha to be stupid with her.  

The Garbage Pail Kids and their idiotic speech pattern are still annoying.

Fr. Gabriel was the only one that had something worthwhile to say.

[millennium]

Okay, so week after week The Saviors are an omnipresent threat, with inevitable roadblocks barring every road and soldiers seemingly spread out so thick across the countryside that there is always a Saviors patrol within earshot of even a single round of gunfire.

EXCEPT when Rick and Michonne need some alone time.

The fake-out of Rick's death was even more shameless than Glen's last season.

As always, the only thing worse than the episode is the sight of Chris Hardwick in his stupid hipster glasses blathering away as if any of this matters.

If I had written this episode, I would have had the upper-half of the windshield walker clawing at the ferris wheel gate trying to get at Rick, right next to the sign that says "You Must Be THIS Tall to Ride."

Edited March 6, 2017 by millennium

[thuganomics85]

Episode makes me want to watch Zombieland again (side note: can't believe that film's main cast ended up all getting Oscar nominations later on in their careers and even one win!  I so want to see a reunion!)

Anyway, Rick and Michonne go gun-hunting, which was kind of fun, and I enjoy their interactions even if their chemistry is more easygoing, then scorching.  But, of course, Rick almost gets himself killed by trying to kill a damn deer for Michonne, Michonne almost gets herself killed because she think Rick got himself killed, and then it all ends with them getting the guns, but her crying in the car about not wanting to lose him, and Rick's just like "Well... can't say that won't happen, but don't worry about it too much!"  OK, then.

OK, I still find Janis and the Garbage People entertaining, but they're still fucking ridiculous.  I think like I'm watching the most bizarre episode of Star Trek, where Captain Rick of the U.S.S. Alexandra is dealing with an alien race in the weirdest away mission ever.

Tara finally is going to till Rick about Oceanside (they are so doomed now!)  Got thing else to say, except Alanna Masterson somehow got outacted off the screen by a toddler.

Finally, Rosita has had enough waiting around and is planning something with Sasha of all people to kill Negan.  Yeah, that isn't going to work.  Won't be surprised if at least one of them pays for it also.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I totally thought Rick and Michonne got married in this episode. Like when he said that he didn't really want to lead but he wanted to be with her and she said yes I want that too.

Boom. Done. Married IMO. (I have armor)

That might be the last thing Rick wants.  If he disappears and is thought dead (again), someone's gonna 'Shane' her 'Lori' all over again.

[Pete Martell]

1 minute ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

That might be the last thing Rick wants.  If he disappears and is thought dead (again), someone's gonna 'Shane' her 'Lori' all over again.

I think Rick probably knows that didn't happen because he was presumed dead, it was likely going to happen no matter what.

[Happy Harpy]

I'm going to get this out of the way: I loved the Rick/Michonne. Of course I loved it. I also loved Rick, and Michonne, individually. And this episode is still vastly superior to anything S7-A.

But Houston, we do have a (huge) problem. The pacing of the show is so very off. It's been a recurring problem imo since the writers began to rely on big cliffhangers by pushing the chop-chomping of Whatsername and her annoying kids to the MSP instead of keeping it in the MSF.

The editing is off, too. I don't know if it's possible, and probably not, but I've even been wondering if they didn't scramble to re-organize the episodes as much as they could (cutting some scenes, making others longer) after the ratings took a nosedive in 7-A.

This episode fell short of my expectations, which were admittedly high,  because the execution was sloppy. I mean finally, FINALLY, there is more than a two-minutes scene once in a blue moon devoted to the state of mind of the lead character from day 1,  to the state of mind of the lead female character since she took a risk to open up (and have something to lose), to the lead couple since they've gotten together;  the scenes themselves were excellent and again I loved them, but the transitions and narrative were choppy.

I liked the Alexandria parts, but imo they belonged to the previous episode. Don't tell me they didn't have some  superfluous scenery-chewing or redundant abuse they could cut there. Rosita's failed scavenging for guns would have made a smoother transition with Rick and Michonne's. Her decision to go Suicide Squad would have had more echo if one episode she failed, and the next one Rick and Michonne's success was not enough. Same for Tara's guilt that spurred her own risky move. It was too immediate. Pacing issue, again.

They also shouldn't have started with the happy happy scenes. After all the doom and gloom of the previous half-season, they were so very extremely welcome but they were kind of wasted by popping up in the beginning, out of nowhere. Imo, the episode should have started with a tense moment, and a clear and immediate reminder of why they needed guns. Then Rick and Michonne could have loosened up. The writers chose a linear evolution from carefree to serious, I think a roller-coaster would have been a better choice.

That said, I loved to have an insight into Rick's mind. I loved the reminder of his meeting and his friendship with Glenn, his feeling of having failed him. It was long overdue. Seriously, more time was spent on Rosita and Sasha's grief (and since I don't mourn Abraham, I don't relate much) than on Rick mourning one of his best friends. Needless to say that I love Rick when he's ready to fight no matter what.

I don't think the audience was supposed to believe that Rick was dead. It was more about Michonne's reaction and I found it very realistic. In that respect, the carefree scenes were efficient and it was also a good use of her "we're the ones who live". She finally let herself love after closing off for so long. She was certain that she wouldn't go through another loss like the first. She got overconfident and kind of giddy because after all this time, she was happy. And the next second, everything crumbles in the most stupid, one-second accident. For me, she reacted like someone struck by lightning a second time. She was numb; having flashbacks and wondering how she could survive yet another loss. It lasted a few seconds and given how fast she snapped out of it, I don't think she consciously contemplated to let herself die. Since she didn't protest too much or too violently, I inferred from Rick/Michonne's last conversation that she didn't want to go through another trauma, but knew as well as Rick that she'd do it if she had to.

Rick believing that she could lose him and go on, and Michonne believing he would be good at building a new world is why I love them so much as a couple. They trust, admire and respect each other. They have a healthy relationship and it's so rare on TV. It's very balanced, with Rick needing Michonne by his side (first discussion about the future) as much as she needs him (last discussion). I'm happy that this episode gave more insight into it.

The Hive groupe is still ridiculous but I kind of like the negotiation gimmick. The cat thing made me laugh.

Judith is the cutest baby. Is Tara giving her the bracelet the equivalent of wearing a red shirt?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[J----av]

I'm sorry but Rick and Michonne have no fucking chemistry at all 

[spiderpig]

And now it's time to play...

"Damning With Faint Praise"!

At least this ep was better than the last two weeks.

Even though we had to put up with extended scenes of slack-jawed Tara wasting air and other resources while pretending to act whether she should tell CDB about Oceanside.

Enough already.  We already sacrificed Abraham and Glenn.  It's time to have Tara meet Lucille or a particularly ravenous walker.  We need some comic relief.

[Vyk]

Where the hell has Carl been the past three weeks?!

[J----av]

5 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Tara must be dying soon, right?  That has to be the only reason this sub par character and actor is getting any screen time.  Blah blah we will fight, yadda yadda wish Rosita would drop your goofy ass like a sack of shit.  Even the baby actor was out acting her, just by staring and probably pooping her pants. 

Rosita is more likely to die

[Timetoread]

6 hours ago, BloatedGuppy said:

Michonne's established character was that of a hard bitten, truculent loner, and now for reasons of plot she's forced to be a soppy milquetoast who flies to pieces at the thought of losing Rick. This is not a welcome or appealing arc for her character. At best, it takes a strong and resourceful character and makes her weak in order to humanize her. At worst, it's the goddam writers having no idea what they're doing again and just writing characters this way and that with no concern for consistent characterization.

That's not true.  Michonne's "established character" was a woman in mourning who saves ungrateful blondes, takes baby formula to strangers, leads strangers to their kidnapped friends, helps a little boy in mourning she doesn't know and rescues ugly cats, reveals that even in her "loner" state she was talking to/missing the man she loved and lost, cries over the death of ungrateful blondes, cries holding babies, bonds with Daryl and Hershel and hell, even MERLE, flashes back to a time when she was in love and was a mother, chooses life with Grimes, etc.  Point is feelings, love, and caring have ALWAYS been a part of who she is.  She's always been human.  It is just not what some people want her to be.  For many she's not a person, she's a robot.  Being anything more than this supposedly weakens her. Supposedly, because in this episode alone she and Rick killed about 100 zombies on their own.  Yep, she's weak as hell!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Timetoread

[Enero]

8 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 

8 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

 

Michonne, I love you, but Rick does not need to be in charge.

.... The other communities are going to want to chose their own leader.  Hill Top might want to get rid of Gregory and replace him with Maggie, but the Kingdom is happy having Zeke in charge.  You will be lucky if the garbage people don't turn on you.  So worry about the people that are left in your community and whether or not they want Rick in charge.

Completely agree with this. When Michonne said that Rick should be the President of their new nation after Negan I was like love truly is blind and it has completely snowed Michonne. Rick can barely lead CDB. He and his crew are like a dark cloud. Everywhere they go there's chaos. But I digress.

To your point, all of the communities have their own leaders and I think it'd  work best for it to stay that way. They can then work together on establishing some kind of trade agreement and strategy for keeping all the communities safe from future Negans.

Furthermore if I had to chose one leader to rule them all Zeke would be my choice. The king nonsense aside, his community has been the best we've seen on the show. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Enero

[bosawks]

1 hour ago, Vyk said:

Where the hell has Carl been the past three weeks?!

Yeah, I got my eye on him!

 

I'll show myself out.....

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

38 minutes ago, bosawks said:

Yeah, I got my eye on him!

 

I'll show myself out.....

Hey!  Leave him alone, that boy can't see right.

 

Follows you out the door.....

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, J----av said:

Rosita is more likely to die

No reason they can't do a twofer.

Rosita, when you are south of the Mason Dixon line and you come upon a derelict trailer in a search for guns in the sticks, you shouldn't be discouraged  by the toy gun at the door.  Toss the trailer.  Guns in there be.  

[millennium]

2 hours ago, Vyk said:

Where the hell has Carl been the past three weeks?!

Hair and there.

[Haleth]

For the most part I enjoyed the show.  Rich and Michonne work so well together and the actors have great chemistry.  (And Danai is seriously underused most of the time.)  The carnival was an interesting set.  Lots of fun and games there, but the writers truly missed what would have been the best thing ever (as suggested by someone in the pre-show thread)-- countless walker clowns emerging from a walker clown car.  So disappointing.

Rosita is getting almost as annoying as Jadis.  Christian Serratos needs to eat a sandwich.  Girl is getting too skinny even for the apocalypse.  Her plan with Sasha is not going to end well, but I did like how they were on the same page.  "I need your help."  "I get to take the shot."  But if Rosita ends up getting Sasha killed she needs to be exiled from Alexandria.  Her body count is rivaling Rick's at this point.

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

He does his worst acting in scenes with her.  Some actors just can't "do" romance. Maybe he's one of those.

Maybe he needs a romantic speech written on giant cue cards while Silent Night plays on the boom box?

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Michonne should have slapped him after the walkers were down and yelled at him; "Quit clowning around, Rick!!"

I see what you did there.

[ShadowSixx]

9 minutes ago, Haleth said:

For the most part I enjoyed the show.  Rich and Michonne work so well together and the actors have great chemistry.  (And Danai is seriously underused most of the time.)  The carnival was an interesting set.  Lots of fun and games there, but the writers truly missed what would have been the best thing ever (as suggested by someone in the pre-show thread)-- countless walker clowns emerging from a walker clown car.  So disappointing.

Rosita is getting almost as annoying as Jadis.  Christian Serratos needs to eat a sandwich.  Girl is getting too skinny even for the apocalypse.  Her plan with Sasha is not going to end well, but I did like how they were on the same page.  "I need your help."  "I get to take the shot."  But if Rosita ends up getting Sasha killed she needs to be exiled from Alexandria.  Her body count is rivaling Rick's at this point.

Maybe he needs a romantic speech written on giant cue cards while Silent Night plays on the boom box?

I see what you did there.

 

I so agree on that. I noticed how skinny her arms are this episode. Didn't look healthy at all. Too bad Michonne or Rick couldn't kill the deer because they would have to force half of it down Rosita's throat.

[Cindylou]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

The big giant walker wearing an... evening gown(?) and was dispatched by Rosita was kind of cool in a hideous way.

I was thinking that is what happened to Mamma June!

[ghoulina]

Alright. Rick and Michonne are two of my favorite characters on the show, and arguably two of the stronger actors. So there WERE parts of this I enjoyed. It was nice seeing them be able to just relax together and laugh for once. When they fell in through the old roof, I was expecting your typical "we landed in a pile of walkers!" scare. So it was nice that they didn't and could just laugh about it. I really do think those two are a good match and bring out the best in each other. Neither are the type to really show their emotions, but with each other - they can truly let down their guard and be vulnerable. Rick hasn't been sleeping, but he can sleep in the car with his girl, because he knows she's got this. And Michonne is usually so stoic, but she can break down into tears with him because it's safe. 

And I DO get the desire to want to make the "planning" stage last a bit longer, because the fighting stage is going to royally suck, no matter the outcome. They definitely might lose each other, so this might be the last time they really have together. I get that. 

But....um....Rick? You have kids too. Don't you....oh, I don't know.....want to soak up sometime with your teenage son and infant daughter before you could possibly die and leave them double orphans? It just seems irresponsible to take any longer than necessary, when there are people back at home depending on them. And what if Negan shows up for his regular pickup and gets pissed off and you're not there to handle it? I know they need guns, but get your guns and get your ass back. 

Although, the delay isn't entirely their fault, because apparently the 60-odd ones they got weren't good enough for the Garbage Pail Queen and her troupe of no-time-for-words-in-the-apocalypse followers. 

I think the main issue right now is the pacing. This show has SUCKED at pacing for several seasons now. A Rick/Michonne episode is a lovely idea. And Danai certainly deserves it. But with the urgency we're supposed to be feeling, the placement of this episode just felt off. 

And I won't even get into the handwaving that had to be done during some of the carnival chicanery. That CGI deer? What WAS that? Straight up laughable. 

 

Rosita continues to bug me to no end. I love how SHE thinks she knows better and SHE can get guns....and then all she does is tromp around on foot, around an area that has no doubt already been exhausted a million times over. Gets all excited about a toy gun, but doesn't even bother to actually check the rest of the house. Yells at the priest. Is a straight up bitch to Tara. Then she basically goes and begs the girl who she just dismissed a few episodes ago to help single (double) handedly take down Negan. Which is stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I think they're probably setting up Rosita's death with this one. 

Then again, Tara is apparently Judith's new babysitter, so her future ain't looking that bright either...

[luna1122]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I totally thought Rick and Michonne got married in this episode. Like when he said that he didn't really want to lead but he wanted to be with her and she said yes I want that too.

Boom. Done. Married IMO. (I have armor)

Yvette Nicole Brown agrees with you.

Michonne, post ZA, is a badass loner killing machine, but pre-ZA, she was a cultured woman with a significant other and a child and a houseful of art and a soft life. She became the loner killing machine, and she could be that again, but she is not inherently that. I have no problem believing she'd have a moment of just not wanting to go thru all of that again.

I really really did want to see a zombie clown.

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, J----av said:

I'm sorry but Rick and Michonne have no fucking chemistry at all 

I do agree. Watching them make out makes me squicked the same way it did when Maggie and Glenn got it on.  I never thought watching attractive people have sex would be a turn off, but in both cases it was and is so forced it embarasses me.

6 hours ago, millennium said:

If I had written this episode, I would have had the upper-half of the windshield walker clawing at the ferris wheel gate trying to get at Rick, right next to the sign that says "You Must Be THIS Tall to Ride."

Yes! Smirky, sly humour like that would be awesome. Do TPTB think that making everything deadly serious at all times is a sign of Great Art? Even a fairly dark and violent show like the Sopranos had moments of humour that were laugh-ou-loud funny, moreso than any sitcom. Real people, even in desperate times, can find something to laugh about, at least briefly. Humans need that.

[ghoulina]

10 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Michonne, post ZA, is a badass loner killing machine, but pre-ZA, she was a cultured woman with a significant other and a child and a houseful of art and a soft life. She became the loner killing machine, and she could be that again, but she is not inherently that. I have no problem believing she'd have a moment of just not wanting to go thru all of that again.

Amen. Believable characters are well rounded. Michonne can be a bad ass killer AND a lover. She clearly adores Carl and Judith. She had a family before the fall, and it might have taken some time, but she's allowed herself to open up and have a family again. She LOVES this man. She LOVES those kids. I don't see anything weak or out-of-character about that at all.

[nodorothyparker]

This really was a decent enough episode for what it was.  And yes, pacing is always an issue and yes, of course it's a filler episode.  We know nothing big is going to happen on the going after Wordy McWordison front until the season finale because that's just how this show has rolled for awhile now.  So in the meantime, they at least tried to answer where some of those many many guns they're going to need are going to come from, showed us another snippet of here's what was happening when the world ended, and spent some much needed time with two main characters who have had precious little to do for awhile except go around scowling at everybody else for not getting on board fast enough to suit them.

I bought this characterization for Michonne, who has been underwritten to her detriment for some time now with little to do but prop Rick through one bad decision after another and then prop him some more.  When we met her, she was damn near feral and only a step or two above being a walker on a chain herself, which was called back to nicely after the prison fell and she first tried to go back to that before making the conscious decision to choose to live and join the Grimes boys.  I don't find it implausible at all that after a night of what passes for romance in the ZA and planning for the future and what had only a few minutes earlier been a game between them when they were tallying walker kills, that she could have been absolutely frozen dumbstruck with horror that it could all end so quickly like that.  I didn't think the audience was supposed to think that Rick might be dead either in a Glenn under the dumpster moment as much as I thought they wanted to make sure we thought that Michonne thought that.  Rather than being an example of how the walkers really aren't a threat anymore, I read it as nice reminder both for us and the characters that they still can be really dangerous in the right situation.  But then I'm one who would have preferred Glenn going out that way, getting completely overrun while trying futilely to save an idiot instead of the stupid fake out only to meet the business end of a bat a half season later.

I didn't have a problem with the idea that Rick was prolonging going back to what he knows stands a good chance of turning into a bloodbath.  But he has kids and one of the last times he was away from home for any stretch of time, he came home to Negan playing house with those kids.   Who is even left in Alexandria that he honestly believes could take care of them or handle things if Negan showed up unexpectedly?  

What I did find cheesy as hell was the just pulled Excalibur from the stone, Six-Million Dollar Man mashup of catching and tossing the katana of destiny, but I also realize the show has increasingly fetishized our characters with their weapons of choice so there's that.  Apparently they're blowing their entire CGI budget on Shiva now and every other scene is going to suffer for it with horrible junkyard green screens and flickering deer.  And no, Michonne, I know you love him and all, but Rick should not be president of the new world.  He's great at being the leader when no one else wants to be and thinking on the fly after whatever half-assed thing he had planned went sideways, but following him has been incredibly lethal to red shirts and B characters.

Since Rosita is determined to blame everybody but herself for everything that has happened and is steadfastly refusing to learn a damn thing from how events have transpired so far, it seems likely we'll now get to watch her get Sasha killed too.  The sheer logistics of how this show rolls dictate that their suicide mission won't be ending the way they want.  It's still hard to fathom how Big Red inspired this level of devotion from either woman.  

[Dobian]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

Sunroof - Rick kicked it out.  And in most autos the only thing between the trunk and the passenger space is the rear seat backs, which wouldn't stand up very long against a determined lady with a sword.

Missed that

[Primetimer]

The race to find more guns gets sexy, then deadly, then kind of sexy again.

View the full article

[MV007]

I thought this episode was pretty bad.  I can't imagine continuing to watch this show if they produce episodes like that consistently.  It reminded me of the moment I knew I couldn't keep watching Fear the Walking Dead.  When the car Rick and Michonne were pushing inexplicably had no breaks and then the Walker's gun started shooting, I just couldn't believe the laziness of the writing.  It reminded me of the time the crew in Fear the Walking Dead were out in the middle of the ocean taking a swim and they just happen to be near a ship wreck where a bunch of walkers are floating around.  This world is dangerous enough can the writers please put some effort into writing the characters into dangerous situations instead of this laziness.

Edited March 6, 2017 by MV007

[NorthstarATL]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I totally thought Rick and Michonne got married in this episode. Like when he said that he didn't really want to lead but he wanted to be with her and she said yes I want that too.

Boom. Done. Married IMO. (I have armor)

Marriage is meaningless unless the Government OKs it. Ask the Supreme Court.

Seriously, though, with Society broken down, you are whatever you decide you are. If Michonne is now Michonne Grimes in her head, then so be it.

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

That might be the last thing Rick wants.  If he disappears and is thought dead (again), someone's gonna 'Shane' her 'Lori' all over again.

Eh, I disagree. 

Michonne is nothing like Lori and there is no one who fills the "Shane" role. So I can't see why that is would even be a concern for Rick.

[mightysparrow]

Michonne is my favourite character on this show and the only reason I keep watching (other than it's so much fun to snark with everyone here).  I ALWAYS insisted that she was more than just some badass warrior woman.  From the very beginning, it was clear that Michonne was a woman who felt deeply and had suffered so much that she HAD to hide the caring, brilliant woman she was before the ZA away from the world she found herself in, just to survive.  It was easy to buy all of this because Danai's, who is probably the best actor on this show (Lennie James is her only equal), made Michonne a complex character from the very beginning.

I don't know who THIS Michonne is.  Love wouldn't make Michonne giddy and 'girlish'.  It would make her even more vigilant and more determined to fight for the people she loves.  Michonne KNOWS what happens when you let your guard down.  That doesn't mean she isn't open to feelings and emotions.  She's ALWAYS been emotional.   But she wouldn't be careless.  Her shit has ALWAYS been together.  She's not like Rick, willing to let everything (including his own fucking children) go to hell, while they had a 'honeymoon'.

Michonne has been disappearing for a long time.  Time after time, she's deferred to Rick's consistently bad judgement.  That's not Michonne.  Let's not forget, Rick is the one who didn't want to go to Alexandria.  Michonne had to talk him into it and she was RELENTLESS.  She knew that CDB, especially Carl and Judith, needed a permanent home and she was damned if anybody was going to prevent that, even if that person was Rick. 

Does anyone else remember what happened when Michonne saw someone she loves get hurt?  I do.  When Carl was hurt, the person who 'brought her back', Michonne became a killing machine.  THAT'S Michonne.  I don't know who this person was.

I totally buy that Rick didn't give a damn what was happening back at Alexandria.  He was happy to drive and fuck because Rick is a selfish asshole.  But I don't believe that Michonne has become that kind of person.  She knows how hard won their safety is and there's no way she would leave Carl AND JUDITH(?) defenseless with a psycho roaming around.  Especially a psycho who gets a kick out of fucking with Rick.  She doesn't only remember Glenn and Abe when it's convenient. I say, BULLSHIT.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, NorthstarATL said:

Marriage is meaningless unless the Government OKs it. Ask the Supreme Court.

Seriously, though, with Society broken down, you are whatever you decide you are. If Michonne is now Michonne Grimes in her head, then so be it.

Well that was kind of my point. They married each other IMO in that scene. They made a  commitment to be together as a couple. That's what marriage is in the ZA. They don't need someone to give their marriage a formal blessing.

[Timetoread]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

 I don't find it implausible at all that after a night of what passes for romance in the ZA and planning for the future and what had only a few minutes earlier been a game between them when they were tallying walker kills, that she could have been absolutely frozen dumbstruck with horror that it could all end so quickly like that.

PREACH!!  I loved this whole post - particularly the green screen cgi deer part, LMAO - but as quoted above, EXACTLY.  I found it believable and poignant.  After a truly crappy half season, R&M took a moment to wallow in wedded bliss.  But in an instant (thinking he was gone) SH*T got real for Michonne.  I think, as you eloquently put it, that not only did it show that the threat of sudden death is ALWAYS present in this world, even for the tough and the hardened, but it again begs the question of what should one do with one's heart in such a situation.  Michonne was once a woman full of love, but lost everything.  In order to survive she turned her heart off.  It kept her alive but was she really living?  She answered that herself in "After".  So she opened herself up to love again and has found the real thing - arguably her soul mate, multiple children and an extended family.  But that moment with Rick reminded her of how fast it can be taken from her and how horrible it felt.  It was crippling and nihilistic.  Does love weaken her?  I don't think she's ever been weak but I think it gives her pause.  Do you fight hardest when you have nothing to lose or when you have everything to lose?

[Nagevs]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

I do agree. Watching them make out makes me squicked the same way it did when Maggie and Glenn got it on.  I never thought watching attractive people have sex would be a turn off, but in both cases it was and is so forced it embarasses me.

 

Maggie and Glenn, Rick and Michonne....I see a pattern here. 

[diebartdie]

I enjoyed the hell out of this episode even if I thought the multiple sex scenes were a bit much you know what? So what! These folks have been in and continue to be in utter shit encrusted hell, why not have some fun wherever and whenever you can. Hasn't anyone read any historical accounts of Europe during the Black Death, bodies were found mid-fuck, point being even if you're dying some guesome, horrible death you may as well follow the wisdom of Janis (Joplin) and "get it while you can".

I loved the carnival of walkers, so many little hints of other stories, it had several layers really. First layer, a carnival at a middle school. Happy families having fun when BOOM walker attack. Next layer the national guard moves in, establishes a base of operations then BOOM walker attack. Final layer some aweful person rounds up several people, ties their hands, hides them somewhere, they die and not so much BOOM this time but more like they finally get their moment to shine when Rick and Michonne somehow unknowingly release them. They were a "blink and you'll miss it" band of walkers but still, all those things are what still intrigue me about this world, all the hints at all the stories no one would ever know.

Agree with everyone that Rosita is being ridiculous and she'll just get herself and or Sasha killed but probably not Negan. Agree with everyone else it was pretty shitty that Rick and Michonne spared not a word about the kids. Agree with everyone else that GPK just SUCK.

Dont agree with anyone that Rick and Michonne lack chemistry. Dont agree with anyone that Michonne should always and forever be a cold, merciless weapon with a weapon no matter what. Dont agree with anyone that Tara is worthless and should die now. Dont agree with anyone that this was a boring episode! It was fun, it was exciting, it was thoughtful and it was sweet.

Last thing I'll say is I really think TPTB mean for most of this back half the season to be seen as almost light hearted, fun and funny and bless them for trying even if they're kind of missing the mark on that.

[Boofish]

Everyone wanted Rick to do something so he goes to do something and now everyone thinks he's a bad father

Michonne is in love so now she's soft. I guess women of the apocalypse can only be bad asses if they don't like men

I realize Negan could have come back but so what if he did. If he really wanted Judith and or Carl, there would have been absolutely NOTHING Rick could do to stop him. Could not have let them know they had guns and if he fights back Negan kills someone else then that in turn becomes Rick's fault as well.

The most romantic thing to ever happen on this show was Rick willing to give up guns before taking that cat away from Michonne. That made me smile. I'm not giving up on this show because there are so many possibilities and time for it to find it's way back. Just like I didn't kill my daughter between the ages of 16-23 :)

[Ocean Chick]

Rick and Michonne can be just as married as Glenn and Maggie, but I really don't need to see either couple having sex.  Have them waking up in the same bed is enough.  Or brushing their teeth in the same sink.  Or talking together about mundane everyday things, like Carl needing a hair cut or Judith needing new shoes.  The only people I need to see having sex is myself and whoever I'm with, thankyouverymuch.

Didn't bother watching this episode, as I knew the broad strokes of storyline and knew there wouldn't be anything I missed that would be important.  Sad, because this show used to be must-see tv for me, back in the day.

[nodorothyparker]

I loved the carnival of walkers too, even if it raised a ton of questions about how exactly they all ended up like that.  One of my favorite continuing things about the show over the seasons has been the little snapshots we get in these scenes of life interrupted.  We know there was a carnival at a school and at some point the military/National Guard set up shop there.  What happened that all of these military guys turned while still wearing full gear and carrying presumably fully loaded weapons?  How on earth did the zombie ticket seller get in that booth?  

While I'm still disappointed we didn't get walkers stuck up on the ferris wheel or coming down the giant slide, the visual of them eternally shuffling back and forth in a parking lot carnival quality midway with nary a prize still to be won or a funnel cake to be had made me chuckle.

[Timetoread]

Quote

I don't know who THIS Michonne is.  Love wouldn't make Michonne giddy and 'girlish'.  But she wouldn't be careless.  Her shit has ALWAYS been together.  She's not like Rick, willing to let everything (including his own fucking children) go to hell, while they had a 'honeymoon'.

How do we know what Michonne in love is like?  She loved Mike so much that she walked through the ZA alone talking to his ghost.  She wasn't "careless" she was, for the first time since her fist kid became zombie chow, HAPPY.  Rick, for the first time since he woke from a coma, is HAPPY.  But he's not letting everything go to hell.  He is indulging in this last moment before he stands on the front line to DIE for his kids and everybody else in Alexandria.

 

Quote

Time after time, she's deferred to Rick's consistently bad judgement.

When was this?  Last I remember, she let Rick and Aaron go fishing for cans in a walker infested lake, while she kidnapped a woman, drove up to Negan's city and killed that woman.  She then came home and made him snap out of it.

Quote

Does anyone else remember what happened when Michonne saw someone she loves get hurt?  I do.  When Carl was hurt, the person who 'brought her back', Michonne became a killing machine.  THAT'S Michonne.  I don't know who this person was.

This person was a woman, not a machine.  She got a punch to the gut and had an existential moment that shook her to the core.  She is not the only person who has frozen to the ground to see the love of their life die in front of them.  Again, she is a PERSON.  People are fallible.  Michonne is not a Terminator, she is fallible. 

Quote

He was happy to drive and fuck because Rick is a selfish asshole.

Since when?  All Rick does is for those people.  It is always Rick to stare down the bad guy.  It is always Rick on runs to find food, find guns, make deals.  Why is he not allowed any happiness EVER?  He was happy to drive and ---k because he (see above) is a person.  Rick has had sex with exactly two women in his entire life.  He finally had some time alone - no kids, no Alexandria, no Negan - just his woman and the open road.  And what makes it so poignant is that in his eyes, this was his swan song.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Timetoread

[ghoulina]

8 minutes ago, Boofish said:

The most romantic thing to ever happen on this show was Rick willing to give up guns before taking that cat away from Michonne. That made me smile.

Yes! That was the best. I was like, "Don't you dare give that cat back!" 

2 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

When was this?  Last I remember, she let Rick and Aaron go fishing for cans in a walker infested lake, while she kidnapped a woman, drove up to Negan's city and killed that woman.  She then came home and made him snap out of it.

I don't have as much Rick animosity as a lot of people do, so I don't necessarily see all these "bad judgment" calls he's been making. BUT - I have seen a lot of HIM deferring to Michonne lately. HE was the one who wanted to keep the peace and just slave away for Negan for....however long. Michonne wasn't having that. She wanted to DO something. And he eventually came around to see things her way. Just like when they debated going to ASZ. She was the one who pistol whipped him. I think, like any couple, they sometimes disagree on how to do things, but they respect each other and end up reaching a compromise. I don't see it all being Rick's way. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Ocean Chick said:

Rick and Michonne can be just as married as Glenn and Maggie, but I really don't need to see either couple having sex.  Have them waking up in the same bed is enough.  Or brushing their teeth in the same sink.  Or talking together about mundane everyday things, like Carl needing a hair cut or Judith needing new shoes.  The only people I need to see having sex is myself and whoever I'm with, thankyouverymuch.

Didn't bother watching this episode, as I knew the broad strokes of storyline and knew there wouldn't be anything I missed that would be important.  Sad, because this show used to be must-see tv for me, back in the day.

On-screen sexy times have happened since pretty much day one in this show and were much more gratuitous than the scenes with Rick/Michonne and Glenn/Maggie

IIRC

Lori and Shane with simulated sex in the woods replete with grunting and grinding
Lori and Rick with implied shower sex
Shane and Andrea simulated sex in the car replete with heavy breathing and grinding
Glenn and Maggie with pretty tepid on screen sex. Partial nudity and kissing.

Rick and Michonne's sex scenes IMO were much less gratuitous in but IMO still passionate because of the actors. They didn't really even simulate sex like Shane's scenes. I mean I don't consider shirts off and bra on with some belly kissing and laying on each other as simulated sex.  But that's just me.

[mmecorday]

Who were the people playing golf at the beginning? Rick and Michonne just happened to run into two random people playing golf? I understand the need for recreational sports during the ZA, but something as slow paced as golf is probably not the best choice. Although a nine iron does make for an excellent anti-walker weapon, as we saw in the "Beth and Daryl Go To A Country Club!" episode.

[headhoncho]

I agree with those of you that don't think Rick & Michonne have any chemistry

And it's probably just me, but I DID see heat between Rick and the leader of the GPK when they were bantering back and forth about the guns and the cat

[tricknasty]

11 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

Who were the people playing golf at the beginning? Rick and Michonne just happened to run into two random people playing golf? I understand the need for recreational sports during the ZA, but something as slow paced as golf is probably not the best choice. Although a nine iron does make for an excellent anti-walker weapon, as we saw in the "Beth and Daryl Go To A Country Club!" episode.

Saviours. They were talking about Fat Joey

[ShadowSixx]

55 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Michonne is my favourite character on this show and the only reason I keep watching (other than it's so much fun to snark with everyone here).  I ALWAYS insisted that she was more than just some badass warrior woman.  From the very beginning, it was clear that Michonne was a woman who felt deeply and had suffered so much that she HAD to hide the caring, brilliant woman she was before the ZA away from the world she found herself in, just to survive.  It was easy to buy all of this because Danai's, who is probably the best actor on this show (Lennie James is her only equal), made Michonne a complex character from the very beginning.

I don't know who THIS Michonne is.  Love wouldn't make Michonne giddy and 'girlish'.  It would make her even more vigilant and more determined to fight for the people she loves.  Michonne KNOWS what happens when you let your guard down.  That doesn't mean she isn't open to feelings and emotions.  She's ALWAYS been emotional.   But she wouldn't be careless.  Her shit has ALWAYS been together.  She's not like Rick, willing to let everything (including his own fucking children) go to hell, while they had a 'honeymoon'.

Michonne has been disappearing for a long time.  Time after time, she's deferred to Rick's consistently bad judgement.  That's not Michonne.  Let's not forget, Rick is the one who didn't want to go to Alexandria.  Michonne had to talk him into it and she was RELENTLESS.  She knew that CDB, especially Carl and Judith, needed a permanent home and she was damned if anybody was going to prevent that, even if that person was Rick. 

Does anyone else remember what happened when Michonne saw someone she loves get hurt?  I do.  When Carl was hurt, the person who 'brought her back', Michonne became a killing machine.  THAT'S Michonne.  I don't know who this person was.

I totally buy that Rick didn't give a damn what was happening back at Alexandria.  He was happy to drive and fuck because Rick is a selfish asshole.  But I don't believe that Michonne has become that kind of person.  She knows how hard won their safety is and there's no way she would leave Carl AND JUDITH(?) defenseless with a psycho roaming around.  Especially a psycho who gets a kick out of fucking with Rick.  She doesn't only remember Glenn and Abe when it's convenient. I say, BULLSHIT.

Only way Michonne would regress as a character is if her sword fighting skills started to lack or if she starts making dumbass decisions. Has Michonne made any dumbass decisions recently? She still kicks ass with a sword and now starting to get the hang of using a sniper rifle. I think people are use to Michonne saying little and giving everyone death glares. If that was Michonne now people would complain that she's boring and no character development because she hasn't changed at all.

Michonne is an emotional person. Remember she had a bf Mike and a son Andre as well as friend Terry when the zombie outbreak happened. She lost them and became a loner until she met and saved Andrea. When Michonne held Judith for the first time she cried and she also cried when Andrea died. After she started opening up to Carl first and established a friendship with him. Being in a relationship with Rick hasn't slowed her down just because she's smiling more.

When she goes to war with the Saviors I'm sure we're gonna see S3 Michonne come out. She can't do much now because they have to search for weapons without being killed by zombies. She can't avenge Abe, Glenn, or Olivia's deaths because they're not prepared. Michonne is still a badass as she was able to kick that Savior woman's ass and have her take her to Negan's camp. So I don't get this whole Michonne is a drip or not the person she use to be, because I still see the same Michonne. She's just more attached to the people around her like Rick, Carl, Judith, Maggie, Sasha, etc. 

[The Solid Muldoon]

Hey, that zombie was Mama June!