S02.E12: Luthors

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

After Metallo breaks out of prison and frees Lillian Luthor, the police blame Lena for his escape and arrest her.

[Primal Slayer]

I already forgot majority of the episode. 

[statsgirl]

It's the All Ships episode!  Kara/Mon El (stated*), Kara/Lena (hinted), Kara/James (for those who watched last season). Also Alex/Maggie and J'onn mourns his lost M'Gann. You get a ship!  and you get a ship! and you get a ship!

I liked the chess game of Lillian trying to influence Lena to be on her side, and then finally kidnapping her.  Poor Metallo, never trust a Luthor.

And bonus, Snapper was a good teacher for a change.

*The more they push Kara/Mon El, the more I think Mon El/Kara will be the ship this season and then he will leave the show at the end of the season for forced reasons.

Edited February 14, 2017 by statsgirl

[stealinghome]

This is the second relatively strong episode in a row after 2x09-10 were a bit lackluster. Hopefully the show has found its groove again! Even if Kara still lacks an arc beyond turning Mon-El into hero/boyfriend material, at least she feels like she has returned to the center of the show, which is a big part of the reason the last few episodes have felt strong. Kara might not be changing, but she's at least moving and shaking, and her emotions are grounding us.

Plot-wise, the episode wasn't anything to write home about, but it re-set Cadmus as the Big Bad respectably enough and what it good was the character stuff. It was a bit too easy to get Lillian out of jail on the whole, but I enjoyed a lot of the Lena stuff--it's just so much fun to play the "is she good or is she evil?" game, and Katie McGrath plays the "good for now, BUT..." element of the character really well. You could buy that Lena will stay good, but you could also buy that eventually she'll go bad, and either way her conflicted relationship with Lillian is compelling. Having Lena around also helps Kara be at the center of the story. Double also, Lena has the world's biggest crush on Kara, right? Because between the flowers filling Kara's office and that top she was wearing in the last scene...I mean, hel-LO, Katie McGrath's rack!

The character beats in general were again quite good this ep. I really enjoyed seeing Kara/Maggie and Kara/James tension. The conflicts felt organic and while I wish we'd seen a little more of Kara and Maggie annoyed with each other (I REALLY want to see Maggie vs the gang at some point when the NCPD and DEO disagree), I really enjoyed that the show again showed us that both Kara and James can be both wrong and right in their conflicts. Kara, obviously, was vindicated in her belief in Lena, but James was also right about Guardian stuff, needing to report on the news, and he's also not wrong to say that Kara's blind faith will likely come back to bite her at some point. Kara and James DO work as friends who can challenge each other in a way that no one else really challenges Kara, and I hope we see more of that. I also enjoyed seeing Catco as a location again--the show misses the Kara Danvers real life element when it's not there. Now, if only Cat herself could come back.

It was sweet how totally uneventful Alex's coming out was, and I liked the little Alex/James hug. But was I the only one who got a good cackle out of wondering what, exactly, J'onn saw in Alex's thoughts? If you know what I mean. Hee. The pool stuff with Winn tried way too hard to be funny though.

The big drawback, as always, is Kara/Mon-El. The writing for them is painfully sophomoric and they're so forced--in that last scene, Melissa Benoist looked like she couldn't believe what she was saying even as she was saying it. If the show is bound and determined to get them together despite the terrible forced-ness, cliche nature of the relationship, and the way the romance is LITERALLY replaying every beat of Kara/James from last season (because that was so successful?), I wish they'd just rip off the Band-Aid and end the juvenile dance between them. Just get them together and let's move on. Also, it's got to be a parody that Mr. Myxy wants to date Kara--that makes 5 love interests the show has thrown at Kara in 32 episodes. C'mon, writers. I'm not saying it's gendered, but...it's gendered.

I would enjoy seeing more of Lena and Lex in flashbacks, though I doubt we'll get much of them. But Lena's family really could be a neverending source of story for this show.

Edited February 14, 2017 by stealinghome

[Bort]

I like how the end flashback scene with Lena and Lex reveals that she was better at chess that he was, and at a younger age. Leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not Lena is just playing a really long con. 

[xaxat]

ITA @stealinghome about Kara, Kara/Lena, Kara/Mon-El however. . . 

21 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

You could buy that Lena will stay good, but you could also buy that eventually she'll go bad

No. That would not be acceptable. Xaxat Kara would be so disappointed in her.

Spoiler

Mr. Mxyzptlk had better wear a hat sometime during next week's episode!

Edited February 14, 2017 by xaxat

[Artsda]

Loved this episode. I assumed everyone knew about Alex & her girlfriend already, so surprised they had an announcement. I liked Mon-El asking if this is an issue on Earth.

Loved Kara sharing her feelings finally for Mon-El and her belief of Lena.

James is the worst, why did Kat leave her business to him again? He just changes covers to declare someone is guilty without having another side or even considering alternative options? Pretty bias and one-sided for a journalist and especially for a so-called Superhero when you think the worst of people needing saving. 

[kdm07]

This show is finally finding it's stride again.

At this point I've accepted that Kara/Mon-El will be a thing so I just find something else to do when it's just the two of them in a scene together.

Flowers Lena? Can you be any more obvious? I'm still on the "Keep Lena morally grey" train because it would be great foil for Supergirl and Kara's characterisations.

Alex and Maggie dating? No big deal and everyone keeps it moving.

Sigh...James the Guardian is what it is at this point. I know they needed something for the character to do but did it have to be this?

[Lady Calypso]

Ok show, I get it. Kara+Mon-El= Love. They're the ultimate couple, or whatever. You can tone it down anytime. It was really one of the biggest things that bother me. Even my Jimmy/Guardian hatred took somewhat of a backseat to this high school written romance. I totally tuned out Kara's Big Profession of Love speech at the end. Everything about these two is just so cliche. I just want something different, you know? But it seems like the show is just checking off boxes on Teen Romance Cliches. So yeah, even if I like Mon El and Chris Wood, I'm just bored by how little he interacts with everyone but Kara. He started off so well, too. 

Kara and Lena, however, are fantastic friends. I'm glad Kara stuck by her, although I do think if we knew for sure that Lena was shady, we'd also be yelling at Kara to not be so stupid. Ah, the complexities with being omniscient to an extent. I do think Lena's a good person and if she does go evil, it'll be for some pretty drastic yet realistic reasons. I do think that they ultimately will keep her good by her arc's end, however long she's around for. She's no Maxwell Lord, that's for sure. 

Also, the flashback of Lena being better at chess could go either way, but I don't think she's playing a long con. 

Again, this episode was just about box checking. Speaking of boxes, I'm not into the What's In The Box arc with whatever technology Lena and her mom found before Supergirl showed up. I don't really care all that much, but I bet it'll be important by the end of the season. 

James makes some good points, but I remain mostly annoyed. However, he and Kara got a couple of good scenes that reminded me on why I enjoyed some of their scenes last season.  

We did get a good coming out scene. I do appreciate that even if it was somewhat predictable, Mon-El being chill about Alex/Maggie is still something that we need to see more of in the media. 

[stealinghome]

Oh, I forgot to add that Kara's fight with Metallo was the one of the dumbest things ever on this show, which is saying something. Instead of going forward and engaging Metallo there at the end, all Kara had to do was superscurry over to Lena, grab her, and superfast fly them out of the base. Instead, she went over and tried to punch Metallo for...reasons? Dumb plot reasons to up the tension? It was bad. I mean, the writers usually ignore Kara's full capabilities for plot reasons, so I can roll with that to an extent, but tonight was so glaringly dumb I couldn't get over it. Would've served Kara right to be caught up in a radioactive Kryptonite cloud!

I actually don't mind Mon-El as the doofus from Daxam, I should also say. He's fun when he's trying to adapt to Earth culture. But the show just grinds to an absolute halt when the Kara/Mon-El romance gets featured, especially when it's now basically Kara/James 2.0. Also I wish Kara's scene in the DEO training room had been with Alex instead of Mon-El. He's really cut into the sister time this season.

I ran across speculation somewhere (can't remember where--maybe tumblr?) that the chess motif in this episode might hint at Checkmate being introduced in the future. I would be down, but only if Viola Davis would agree to cameo as Amanda Waller!

[Cthulhudrew]

Am I the only one who thought Lena was going to kiss Kara and have it turn into an awkward rejection/rebuff, leading Lena to eventually grow more and more angry with Kara to the point of becoming her nemesis?

You know, just like Lex and Clark's relationship. :D

Edited February 14, 2017 by Cthulhudrew

[Sakura12]

All those beats they are doing with Mon-El/Kara are actually happening with Lena/Kara. They know that right? Or are the actresses just playing it that way. Kara's awkward nervousness is much more natural in her scenes with Lena.

Lena's obviously playing her own game, I just hope she's not evil because that would be boring and predicable. 

James is still useless, still don't care about the Guardian arc. I'd rather they just made Mon-El, Kara's alien buddy. Just because he's there doesn't mean they have to date. 

[thuganomics85]

I kind of forgot that no one else knew abut Alex and Maggie, so her telling everyone else was a nice moment.  I liked there was no drama, and the reactions were mainly shocked, but pleased (James and Winn), knew all along (J'onn), and wondering why would it even be considered a big deal to begin with (Mon El.)

Yay, Lena!  I love her so much.  Katie McGrath is still freaking awesome and the chemistry between her and Melissa Benoist is still fantastic. I do think there is more then just friendship in Lena's mind (flowers, Lena?  That seems more then just a friendly gesture there...), but I don't mind which way they go, as long as we get more interactions.  I still worry they will step over the line and make her bad, but I hope they keep her more of a morally grey character, who can go either way depending on the situation.

Lillian is becoming a pretty solid long-term villain and Brenda Strong is still nailing down the stone-cold ice queen role.

So, Lena is actually a Luthor by blood, but a bastard child from an affair Lionel had.  Sort of Game of Thrones, if Lena was Jon, Lionel was Ned (ha!), and Lillian making Catelyn look like the world's best adopted mother.  Fun seeing a young Lex, although the actor looked and sounded so much like David Mazouz from Gotham, that for a brief second I wondered why was Bruce Wayne pretending to be Lex Luthor!

I get why everyone would be suspicious of Lena and I certainly understand following the evidence, but everyone being the Devil's Advocate and going against Kara felt like a bit of a stretch.  And, once again, even if he was right on some levels, James still comes off obnoxious when he's blabbering on to Kara about trust and whatnot.  Man, making him The Vigilante has really soured him on me.  Sorry, Mehcad Brooks.  You aren't at fault, here.

David Harewood still seems to be having fun playing Hank (no, I refuse to call him Cyborg Superman.)

All the fight scenes with Metallo were dumb.  Most of the time, Kara probably could have finished it early, if she just jumped him instead of making grand entrances, and at the end, she should have just grabbed Lena and zipped off, instead of trying to throw down with him.

Kara and Mon-El were they normal selves a.k.a. scenes of Melissa Benoist and Chris Wood trying their hardest to lift the cliched material.  But this random guy at the end (Cyrus from Once Upon a Time in Wonderland!) might be kind of fun.

Overall, enjoyed the episode, but again, Lena/Katie McGrath makes everything better!

[mtlchick]

Quote

Am I the only one who thought Lena was going to kiss Kara and have it turn into an awkward rejection/rebuff, leading Lena to eventually grow more and more angry with Kara to the point of becoming her nemesis?

NOPE!  I was like "We finally got one lesbian couple declared, too early to even consider a second." I don't know if she would turn on Kara, but maybe now that she knows she's a Luthor by blood, her ruthlessness will come to the surface. 

That said, I was wondering if Kara's speech at the end to Mon El was Melissa projecting her feelings considering she's in a middle of a divorce.  It seemed a bit more, I don't know, sad? 

At least Metallo is no more.  I hope.  God, he was annoying. 

[benteen]

When I see a Lionel Luthor not played by John Glover, it just doesn't seem right.

[Trini]

Hey look at that -- they remembered that James and Kara used to have a relationship! Mehcad is a fine piece of eye candy, so thanks for that tank top, show! I'm still annoyed that he's got the screentime of a 'special guest star' and not a regular, but at least we got to see him at his job this week.

Kara/Lena and Lillian Luthor were the best parts of this episode for me. Now that (young, flashback) Lex has made an appearance, when will we see Lois Lane??

So are parts of Smallville canon for this show? Lillian said Clark and Lex used to be best friends; and 'Lionel' as Lex's father's name started with that show.

Mon-El didn't need to be in this episode.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Trini

[sskrill]

2 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Also I wish Kara's scene in the DEO training room had been with Alex instead of Mon-El. He's really cut into the sister time this season.

Totally agree with this.  I thought that was Alex coming down the stairs - totally ruined it when i saw it was Mon-El.  I don't dislike Mon-El but this would have been one of those scenes where Chyler would have shined.

[secnarf]

4 minutes ago, sskrill said:

Totally agree with this.  I thought that was Alex coming down the stairs - totally ruined it when i saw it was Mon-El.  I don't dislike Mon-El but this would have been one of those scenes where Chyler would have shined.

I agree - I definitely thought it was Alex, and then I thought it was Winn (moderately disappointing) and then was very disappointed to realize it was Mon-El. It seemed like such a missed opportunity.

[Cthulhudrew]

Honestly, I had a feeling it was going to be Mon-El, then it looked like it might be Alex so I was pleasantly surprised, then, yeah- Mon-El. And the awkward courting.

As much as the characters just seem to be in and out of a secure government facility so casually, they might as well just do away with the alien bar and have them hang out in the DEO. There's aliens there, too, if they need the scenery.

[kalamac]

So, maybe I wouldn't be so against a Mon-El relationship if Kara smiled at him as genuinely as she smiled at Lena and James. You should be happy to see the person you supposedly have feelings for, even if those feelings make you nervous. I don't mind Mon-El when he's just being a goofy idiot, instead of a potential love interest - he does get some good lines, and Chris Wood seems like a decent guy in real life.

I'm in the camp of Lena was absolutely flirting with Kara, and is at least a little in love with her, but also really likes her as a person. I've said it before, but I hope that Lena doesn't go bad. I love Katie McGrath, and I have no doubt she'd do a fantastic job playing evil, but I'd like Kara to have another friend (and possible girlfriend) that she can trust. And as they've already established that Lillian blames Superman for Lex going bad, Lena going bad would just feel like a tired retread of that story.

Nice to see James and Kara on good terms again.

Heh, Winn attempting to play pool.

I was actually happy to see Mr. Myxy arrive and declare his love, because it interrupted the kiss that I never wanted to see happen.

[Spaceman Spiff]

They really need to get rid of this whole Guardian arc. So Jimmy/Guardian can somehow infiltrate a prison and go toe to toe with Metallo, what, because he has a black belt and a shield. It was utterly ridiculous especially since Metallo, after beating Guardian ripped a cell door off it's hinges. The suit and shield are not made of indestructible metal. That shield should have been destroyed and Jimmy should have had broken bones, not a bruise on his shoulder. It took a double team of a Kryptonian and someone in a super powered krypto suit to take him down last time. And yes I know it was synthed kryptonite and he was presumably weaker, but still cell door.

Was happy to see that the previews from last week fooled me and kept Lena as a gray character. Nice touch at the end with the chess piece.

I was also happy to see that this show remembered it had another super powered alien on the team in the form of the Martian Manhunter. If that scene at the end had Monel or Guardian come in to save Kara I think I would have given up on this show.

Melissa looked like she lost a lot of weight. She looked really thin in some scenes, anyone else notice that?

[cambridgeguy]

Maybe the next time they have to face a kryptonite powered villain they should send in J'onn first or at the very least not have him wait until the last moment to intervene. 

And boy are they having fun trolling the audience with Kara and Lena.  I guess the producers really liked the Clark/Lex stuff on Smallville.

[mrspidey]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

*The more they push Kara/Mon El, the more I think Mon El/Kara will be the ship this season and then he will leave the show at the end of the season for forced reasons.

"I must go. My people need me."

I just hope that box is not a Motherbox. because that would have the subtlety of a wrecking ball.

Also: Hi Lex's exo suit!

*Metallo blows up*

Bye Lex's exo suit!

Edited February 14, 2017 by mrspidey

[Jediknight]

Lena's not evil, that we know.  I'm so glad for that, have her stay good, and she and Winn could design gadgets to help Supergirl.  And yeah, there's no doubt that Katie McGrath is playing up that Lena has a thing for Kara, don't know if the writers realize that they've been dropping massive hints that Lena loves Kara.  I'm hoping the chess thing is that she knows Kara is Supergirl and wants Kara to reveal it, but she's not going to turn against Kara.

Really enjoyed the family scene in the bar.  You're in Maggie, you've been accepted by Alex's family, you're good.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

So are parts of Smallville canon for this show? Lillian said Clark and Lex used to be best friends; and 'Lionel' as Lex's father's name started with that show.

 

 

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

 I guess the producers really liked the Clark/Lex stuff on Smallville.

Considering that some of the producers from Smallville are involved in this show (as well as all the other shows), I'm not surprised at seeing some of the elements from Smallville.  Then there's also the fact that Berlanti and company like to steal/rip off take plots/villains etc. from other sources to shoe horn in to whatever plot they need.

[AzureOwl]

I KNEW IT!!!

I may be biased about evaluating this episode because it confirmed a pet theory of mine. I’ve been certain that Lena was Lionel’s biological child since the character first showed up.

I do wonder about how they will handle this version of Lionel though. So far he seems to be (to borrow my mother’s euphemism) as “peepeelectic” as the Smallville version but also nicer. We can assume  that he is dead or presumed dead at this point, so all his appearances ought to be in flashback. 

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Lena is actually a Luthor by blood, but a bastard child from an affair Lionel had.  Sort of Game of Thrones, if Lena was Jon, Lionel was Ned (ha!), and Lillian making Catelyn look like the world's best adopted mother.  Fun seeing a young Lex, although the actor looked and sounded so much like David Mazouz from Gotham, that for a brief second I wondered why was Bruce Wayne pretending to be Lex Luthor!

I thought they did a good job of casting the younger versions of Lex and Lena. They looked an awful lot like each other, which I believe was probably the point. 

And speaking of casting, if they ever decide to show Lena's biological mother they should totally have Katie McGrath play her with her own natural hair color. 

[benteen]

Quote

Considering that some of the producers from Smallville are involved in this show (as well as all the other shows), I'm not surprised at seeing some of the elements from Smallville.  Then there's also the fact that Berlanti and company like to steal/rip off take plots/villains etc. from other sources to shoe horn in to whatever plot they need.

I was thinking Smallville with this too but wasn't Superman friends with Lex in one of the comic continuities as well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

I was thinking Smallville with this too but wasn't Superman friends with Lex in one of the comic continuities as well.

I have no clue. I do remember someone clarifying for me that it was only in the Superboy comics that had them as friends and that Lex was a crazed scientist who blamed Clark for his going bald.

Either way, because I recently did my annual marathon watch of Smallville, I've noted that a slew of writers and producers from that show are involved in Arrow, The Flash, Legends, Supergirl. Exception being the hacks that took over after season seven and the original show runners.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Steven DeKnight show up eventually.

Edited February 14, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bats27]

Any episode that has Lena as a big part of it is usually going to be good.  And this one is no exception.

Don't you turn Lena evil show, don't you do it.  Especially since Lena's whole thing is NOT wanting to be judged by her family name and trying to break away from them.  Also the whole "they're destined to be evil, it's just genetics" is an idea that I've never liked.  Fiction writers, genetics do not work that way.  Heck I'll give Smallville credit for NOT doing that with Tess Mercer.  And Speaking of Tess, the whole "Lena is actually Lionel Luthor's daughter by another woman" thing is clearly a nod to Tess.

Oh and when Lena and Kara were sitting alone near the end, and Lena was singing Kara's praises practically while wearing that, aesthetically pleasing dress, I half-expected her to kiss Kara, or at least try to.  Either way, Melissa and Katie have great natural chemistry with each other.

[themadman]

Mister Mxyzptlk!

OK, that's definitely how he's been depicted in comics and cartoons. But I'm looking forward to next week. On the other hand, Kara hasn't been shown to be the kind of smart she needs to for outsmarting Mister Mxyzptlk so I'm not holding my breath.

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

I KNEW IT!!!

I may be biased about evaluating this episode because it confirmed a pet theory of mine. I’ve been certain that Lena was Lionel’s biological child since the character first showed up.

Yeah I had thought Lena was secretly Lionel's child for a while too. To be fair to Lillian, she was a lot nicer to her husband's presumed bastard child than Catelyn Stark ever was to Jon Snow!

Yeah I ship Kara and Lena or "Supercorp" as Tumblr calls them, even though it's probably never going to happen on the show and Lena might end up being evil. That final scene of them together had more chemistry than any of Kara's with Mon-El IMO.

[JapMo]

I'm in the minority, I know, but I like Kara/Mon-el.  Or let's just say the potential of Kara/Mon-el.  The writers, however, have been putting what should be at this point a backburner friendship into hyperdrive.  Even as a fan, their last scene was a total surprise to me when Kara said Mon-El kept proving her wrong about his character.  Really?  She's constantly berating him for not living up to her standards.  That last scene to me was more a woman who is confused about a lot of changes going on around her and here's this guy who she knows isn't really right for her but hey...he's cute and said he likes her which means she doesn't have to do any work to get him so what the heck.  

Their romance needed a very slow buildup.  First off, the writers should have been evolving Mon-el's character but they haven't done anything.  He's a prince, for goodness sake.  Can we see how he's adjusting to peasant life?  Where is he living?  I also liked how he and Kara clashed at first.  Mon-El is a lot of fun...Kara is kind of a stick-in-the-mud.  That needed to continue to build tension and create conflict, which in turn gives a better payoff when they eventually realize they love each other.    By rushing it, the viewer doesn't have that investment in the couple that they need to have.  End of Creative Writing 101.

[iMonrey]

The show is really struggling to keep Catco relevant, and Snapper isn't helping matters. They need to devote more time to Kara working as a reporter and flesh Snapper's character out a bit more if they want this to work. Likewise, the whole Guardian arc has been a massive fail thus far. 

Whatever became of President Olivia Marsden, played my Lynda Carter? That sort of went nowhere after we found out she was really an alien. Dropped plot point?

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I am not a fan of Kara/Mon-El, but I do think they had potential to be a fun fling when he was first introduced. But the writers bungled the story on all levels, and don't seem very self-aware--they are TELLING the audience something really different than they are actually SHOWING the audience.

It's lolarious to me that Kara was all "you keep proving me wrong!" when Mon-El apparently isn't superheroing any more. What, exactly, was she proved wrong ON? That he doesn't really care about the greater good? Because his retirement from superheroing kind of proves that exactly right! (Which is fine, btw--I think the Mon-El character works better as, as someone said in another episode thread, someone who will help out when it's a crisis but who isn't interested in superheroing in general--but then don't feed me some line about how much he's surprised Kara when her initial bead on him was pretty much right on.)

[JapMo]

25 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Yeah, I am not a fan of Kara/Mon-El, but I do think they had potential to be a fun fling when he was first introduced. But the writers bungled the story on all levels, and don't seem very self-aware--they are TELLING the audience something really different than they are actually SHOWING the audience.

It's lolarious to me that Kara was all "you keep proving me wrong!" when Mon-El apparently isn't superheroing any more. What, exactly, was she proved wrong ON? That he doesn't really care about the greater good? Because his retirement from superheroing kind of proves that exactly right! (Which is fine, btw--I think the Mon-El character works better as, as someone said in another episode thread, someone who will help out when it's a crisis but who isn't interested in superheroing in general--but then don't feed me some line about how much he's surprised Kara when her initial bead on him was pretty much right on.)

Exactly.  This used to happen on my favorite soap operas many times.  The writers would have another character go on about how much chemistry the couple they wanted to push had, rather than put the effort in to show it.  It's lazy writing.  Or the show has a timetable, in this case about, what, 4 episodes before they kissed?  So Mon-El is supposed to already like Kara when he's kind of shown he thinks she's a tight ass.  

[BkWurm1]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The show is really struggling to keep Catco relevant, and Snapper isn't helping matters. They need to devote more time to Kara working as a reporter and flesh Snapper's character out a bit more if they want this to work. Likewise, the whole Guardian arc has been a massive fail thus far. 

Whatever became of President Olivia Marsden, played my Lynda Carter? That sort of went nowhere after we found out she was really an alien. Dropped plot point?

Was Snapper more growly (his voice not attitude) this week. The affectation was really noticeable.  

I knew I wasn't loving Jimmy's Guardian arc but it's worse than I thought since I was actively rooting for Lena to not be shady just to prove Jimmy wrong.  I knew I wanted him to fail as Guardian, but turns out I want him to fail at everything else as well.  Yikes.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

 What, exactly, was she proved wrong ON?

That Mon-El isn't a total man whore? When she was quizzing the girl he dated why it didn't work out she kept guessing things she supposed he would do on a date since he's such a selfish egotist. 

[Lady Calypso]

36 minutes ago, JapMo said:

Exactly.  This used to happen on my favorite soap operas many times.  The writers would have another character go on about how much chemistry the couple they wanted to push had, rather than put the effort in to show it.  It's lazy writing.  Or the show has a timetable, in this case about, what, 4 episodes before they kissed?  So Mon-El is supposed to already like Kara when he's kind of shown he thinks she's a tight ass.  

It's kind of funny because I was rewatching one of the season 1 episodes, and the Kara/Jimmy romance had some similar pieces of dialogue, specifically from Cat. But it was done better because she said it once and then didn't dwell on it. In fact, she made comments about not wanting to deal with high school drama. Which is why I miss Cat. 

[wevel]

I think the idea of pairing Kara romantically with someone who isn't a regular human does make a lot of sense.  Not because she would "break" a human during sex - which other superhero shows in the same universe have shown doesn't have to be an insurmountable challenge - but because they have the potential to understand Kara's experience in a more personal way.  If that person can physically help her battle the forces of evil, that's a bonus, sure, but by no means a requirement in my book.  So Mon-El had a lot of potential to be a good match for Kara - he's also lost his home planet, also is set apart physically on Earth with his super-strength - but like lots of people have commented already, the writing for this character and for Kara and Mon-El's interactions has mostly been SO bad.  Yeah, he partly changed his dissolute ways, but Kara rightly called him on that just a couple of episodes ago for doing it for the wrong reasons.  Since then, he hasn't really shown that he'd live up to her expectations of a true hero.  And maybe his more obnoxious airs have been toned down, but I just can't see Kara with a man who, till very recently at least, was so much the embodiment of superficial frat-boy.  Sadly, the metahuman I would love to see Kara with - Barry Allen - is too busy with his own city and show!

If Kara were to be with a human, it would also make sense to pair her with someone powerful in other ways - that's one reason why Cat Grant would work for me, or Lena Luthor this season, especially with the chemistry Kara and Lena have (mostly courtesy of Katie McGrath, but the writing is helping in that regard as well, particularly this episode).  But since Kara is supposed to be straight, straight, STRAIGHT, that will never happen.  I was meh about her romance with James last season, but with James' whole Guardian deal now?  He's definitely off my list.  Which is a shame, because if the writers had developed James as an actual CEO at CatCo with a different style and agenda than Cat had, he could have had an interesting relationship with Kara - sometimes conflictual but not always; that snapshot we saw last night of Kara disagreeing with James and Snapper about running the Lena Luthor story is an example of the kind of plot the show could explore more but probably won't. 

I do hope Lena Luthor remains no darker than grey; she makes a great recurring character and if the show is planning on integrating the Luthors more into the Supergirlverse, I'm all aboard.  But I'm afraid she'll go straight-out evil before the season's done and Kara will have to get rid of her in some permanent way.

[Cranberry]

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Yeah I ship Kara and Lena or "Supercorp" as Tumblr calls them, even though it's probably never going to happen on the show and Lena might end up being evil. That final scene of them together had more chemistry than any of Kara's with Mon-El IMO.

Yeah. I'm trying not to ship "Supercorp" because a) it's never going to happen and I'm kind of over subtext and b) there's an excellent lesbian couple in Alex and Maggie right there and I feel like they're being overshadowed by all the Supercorp shipping (especially on Tumblr), but when Kara has more chemistry with Lena than with her actual intended love interest, the show's making it hard for me.

I would have enjoyed Kara/Barry Allen, too. It's a shame he's heading up a different show, as I thought she had more chemistry (and more fun) with him than she has with anyone else. I also liked Kara and James, though, or at least I bought the mutual attraction and caring there.

[stealinghome]

With Kara and James, whatever the writing and chemistry fails there, I at least usually understood why Kara was interested in him. Kara being into Mon-El, otoh, makes very little sense to me because she has quite frequently and quite loudly given him a laundry list of all the things she doesn't like and doesn't respect about him, and many of those things have not changed. And Benoist and Wood just don't generate nearly enough chemistry to overcome all the ways in which their characters don't work together.

more broadly, I also struggle to see Kara in a relationship with someone who isn't a True Believer in something (preferably working toward the common good, but SOMETHING). Mon-El is just so...purpose-less even now. On a protagonist of the show level, I also struggle to see her in a relationship that is far more about her partner than herself.

[djinn]

4 hours ago, JapMo said:

I'm in the minority, I know, but I like Kara/Mon-el.  Or let's just say the potential of Kara/Mon-el.

Yes, same here. I just wish they were devoting more time to developing Kara and Mon-El, and writing them way, way better. Also, not sure why they couldn't spend some more time on Mon-El and how he is changing. There is the backstory of their respective planets hating each other: it almost has a Romeo Montague and Juliet Capulet vibe. They are quite different but also similar and at one level they understand each other, which Kara would never find with a human. But the story development leaves a LOT to be desired. At least, I find them better than James/Kara, which I found to be totally excruciating. I think the writers really cannot write budding romance as well as as after the romance has been established. I found the early courtship of Alex and Maggie quite cringy, as also the early parts of J'onn and M'gann. Later, both couples became very likeable

[GHScorpiosRule]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NOOOO!!!! The only Luthor who should be bald is LEX. And Lionel needs to have that flowing hair of EVUHL (because as we Smallvillites know, short hair Lionel was the kinder, gentler, oracle Lionel), and should ONLY be played by John Glover who gave him his Magnificent Bastardy.

Clearly they stole, yes stole parts of Smallville to incorporate into this show for this episode, and if they're going to do that, then they better fucking cast Michael Fucking! Rosenbaum to play the grown up Lex who is, apparently, stuck in jail, insane. What? Does he think Brainiac is still sitting at his shoulder and urging his craziness/insanity on?

Where do I go from here? The sheer stoopidity of both Snapper and James Jimmy thinking the video was real; as if video footage can never be manipulated? And so because Lena turned her mother, a psychotic murderer, into the police, that means she "betraaaaayed" her and thus should never be trusted? Riiiight. And I'm so sick and tired of this...I'm going to call it a trope, because I've seen it all across the super hero shows and even Freakin' Merlin, how the hero needs to "talk" or "forgive" the murderous, heinous parent because "after all she's your MOTHER" or "after all, he's your FATHER" just because the hero's biological mother/father is DEAD. What Lena did was right and commendable. And the hardest thing she ever had to do. So Jimmy can just STFU with his judginess and him thinking he's always right.

Real life has bled into my shows where it's now "Guilty until Proven Innocent." Again. I wish Kara had rubbed it in Jimmy's face, that yeah, he was WRONG. AGAIN.  And NO WAY should he have gotten away with just a burned shoulder after his fight with Metallo.

And I guess synthesized Kryptonite can now be used to hurt humans? Did I miss the memo on when this became possible?

And do not get me started on the ridonkulousness, embarassing and eye roll worthiness of the awkwardness of how now Kara likes likes Mon-El, because she saw him and Eve going out on a date. It's also insulting to me. That now that he moves on, when she didn't have those feelings for him before, seeing him with someone else (a someone she caught him boinking in the supply closet and was grossed out by and no jealousy then!) suddenly has romantic feelings for him and is jealous? Give me a Fucking Break.

ETA: These writers need to sit down and watch Law & Order. Seriously. What cop, pulls out a tablet to show the suspect the "proof" they have, to justify the arrest? If my eyes rolled any harder when Maggie SWISHED out her tablet and tap tap, showed Lena the video of "Lena" stealing the kryptonite, they would have fallen out of my head. All they need is probable cause. What is it with these shows, that show cops being utterly idiotic and doing things that really, is the prosecution's job, when/if the case gets to court? But no. Must show all their hands, for whatever inane reasons. The stupid, it burns.

Edited February 15, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Lantern7]

Thank you, Mister Mxyzptlk, for wrecking the tender moment. Once again: Mon is a dope. Kara can do sooooooo much better. While I figure the only interpretation of Mxy worth a damn was from Gilbert Gottfried ("Aw, nuts!!"), I'm willing to give this guy a chance.

Stupid question . . . Lex wasn't played by David Mazouz, was he? The kid looked like him. With Gotham going on the shelf until April, David would have time for a quick guest shot.

20 hours ago, benteen said:

When I see a Lionel Luthor not played by John Glover, it just doesn't seem right.

I know, right? Facial hair and a long mane. That Lionel was awesome to watch. Like Omar G. said back in the day, Lionel probably grew his hair out just to piss off Lex.

Somewhat annoyed that Kara was right all about about Lena. I would've thought "guilty" as well, because a. I don't have Winn relentlessly checking the video, and b. I'm cynical as hell and constantly let down by people I liked a lot. Not naming names, but I have so many routines from one particular celebrity memorized, and I can never share or even bear to seek them out. On the bright side, at least we get a HoYay situation with Kara and Lena that is a lot less obvious than Smallville. At least until Supergirl blows toxic smoke at Lena, causing her hair to fall out.

ETA: Henshaw's metal Phantom Of The Opera plate is slightly less ridiculous than the mere concept of "Cyborg Superman" getting said out loud.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Forgot to add: Manipulation, thy name is Luthor. I don't believe for one second that Lillian loves Lena. I hope Lena doesn't either. The reason why she broke Lena out of prison should be proof of that.

Edited February 15, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[tennisgurl]

Any episode with lots of Lena has to be a good one! So, yes, I enjoyed this one a lot. Lena has a really interesting backstory (basically being the Jon Snow of a super villain family) and Katie McGrath is all kinds of great. She's just intense enough to still come off as shady, but she's still sympathetic enough that you believe Kara when she says she's a good guy (gal), and you hope she stays that way. I love her and Kara, and, yes, the filing Kara's office with flowers was...interesting wasn't it? Although I'm still rooting for a possible Lena/Winn hook up. They both have evil parents, are trying to be good guys despite a history of family issues, and have both been in love with Kara :)

I also liked Alex coming out being so chill and low key. I didn't even think of the fact that she hadn't "officially" come out, so that was a nice scene. On the other hand, I really wasn't a fan of the James and Snapper stuff in this episode. For all their talk about Kara not being a "real" journalist and letting her feelings get in the way of her reporting, they were the ones who were jumping into "Lena is the GUILTY!" right away, with just one stupid video that could have easily been doctored (especially when they live in a world with magic and powers and aliens and such), which makes them both look like shoddy journalist and assholes. Especially James, who you would think would know better. Kara probably is a bit too trusting, but they had very little real evidence that Lena was in it with her mom, and, yeah, Kara needs to be careful about trusting people when the stakes are so high, but she cant be constantly dropping friends and allies, or she wont have any. I'm just sick of the guy.

Kara and Mon-El...I'm trying to like them, but I don't get them as a couple. They don't have much in common besides being aliens who crashed on Earth. Granted, that's a BIG thing to have in common, but they're personalities just don't work. I actually like Mon-El as a character, just not as Kara's love interest. The actor does a good job, but this romance is forced as hell.

Hey, its Cyrus! Good seeing you here as a...cosmic genie? I can enjoy that.

[Dobian]

On 2/13/2017 at 7:30 PM, Sakura12 said:

All those beats they are doing with Mon-El/Kara are actually happening with Lena/Kara. They know that right? Or are the actresses just playing it that way. Kara's awkward nervousness is much more natural in her scenes with Lena.

They go from a scene of mature emotional bonding with Lena to Kara professing her wuv for her "teenage" boyfriend, only to be interrupted by another romantic doofus.  It's like one writer wrote the Kara/Lena scene, then when they went on a coffee break their much younger brother came in and wrote the next scene.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Dobian

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

NO! NO! NO! NO! NOOOO!!!! The only Luthor who should be bald is LEX. And Lionel needs to have that flowing hair of EVUHL (because as we Smallvillites know, short hair Lionel was the kinder, gentler, oracle Lionel), and should ONLY be played by John Glover who gave him his Magnificent Bastardy

 

I have to agree.  It was verrrrrrry wrong that Lionel was bald.  Only Lex is supposed to be bald and no, it's not hereditary.  

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I'm so sick and tired of this...I'm going to call it a trope, because I've seen it all across the super hero shows and even Freakin' Merlin, how the hero needs to "talk" or "forgive" the murderous, heinous parent because "after all she's your MOTHER" or "after all, he's your FATHER" just because the hero's biological mother/father is DEAD. What Lena did was right and commendable. And the hardest thing she ever had to do

This.  I get giving estranged parents a chance when it's something complicated in the past with no easy answers, but Lillian has apparently always been awful to Lena, is an evil murderous villain and can't be trusted because of all the above.  Just because she was Lena's only mother figure doesn't mean she should keep her in her life.  Yes, dead parents are a bummer, but just being alive doesn't make bad people suddenly worthy.  

[shantown]

LOVED this episode! It had the conflicts of interest I’ve been saying the writers need to capitalize on! Kara’s friendship with Lena being put to the test because Lena is a Luthor. Kara’s and James arguing over the cover story and how much to trust a friend over actual news. Maggie having to arrest Lena in front of Kara. This is what I was looking for from this group of people who are all normal friends, but their secret lives and work lives cause a strain on all their relationships.

Mon-El just needs to be incorporated into the "group" more, and then I wouldn't find the romantic plot so forced. Bring back his bromance with Winn. Or have him interact with Maggie at the Alien Bar since that was originally her turf. He needs a connection besides just Kara.

I like Lena as a sort of chaotic good - she may have connections to evil but revels in the "good trouble" just enough to keep Kara (and us) on our toes.