S01.E06: The Queen's Husband

[Tara Ariano]

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Albert finds a noble cause; Victoria gets her way at court and turns to a folk cure in the bedroom; and Miss Skerrett asks Francatelli for a favor.

[Meredith Quill]

Please ensure you have read and understand the forum spoiler policy before posting in here.

Thanks.

[janeta]

Damn, what good is it being queen if you can't even decide on whose arm you go in to dinner?

[b2H]

Oh, she decided alright.  Six level chess, that was......

[Primetimer]

Some are more successful than others.

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[PRgal]

Was jumping up and down 10 times really believed to be an effective form of birth control back then?  I'm kind of LOL-ing at that.

[Ripley68]

Ahh, they're so cute together.  I missed why she skipped out on his speech, and why he wasn't upset?  I like this Jenna Coleman, too bad she couldn't have been more like this on Doctor Who.  Really don't care about the downstairs staff.  Hopefully they'll just stay with the noble people more from now on.

[janeta]

I am liking the gown porn, i must admit.

[AZChristian]

39 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

Ahh, they're so cute together.  I missed why she skipped out on his speech, and why he wasn't upset?  I like this Jenna Coleman, too bad she couldn't have been more like this on Doctor Who.  Really don't care about the downstairs staff.  Hopefully they'll just stay with the noble people more from now on.

She didn't want to take attention away from him at the speech, and he appreciated that and felt she did it out of respect for him.

[voiceover]

Wow, this was my favorite episode so far!!  Though I got a little weepy that my Prince E had to go.  Baby, why don't you come on over to my house & watch the last couple of episodes mit mir?

Wonder if Gretchen told Albert about that, too?  Every generation has its sexual myths & misinformation.  In college I asked a friend if I could have one of her birth control pills the night I planned to lose my virginity (I didn't).  

Then there's that old joke:

Q: What do you call people who use the rhythm method?

A: Parents.

[vibeology]

After weeks of running cold on Albert, he is winning me over. The fact that he shared his struggles with pronunciation with Victoria was really all it took. He owned a weakness and made himself vulnerable to his wife to improve. It's all I've been looking for from him, just a moment where Victoria was the expert and he handled it well. If he stays on this track, he's going to quickly undo my negative first impression. 

[TaurusRose]

I enjoyed this episode so much. There were so many scenes to like: Albert's willingness to be corrected and learn from others (his wife, Anson), the intimate moments between husband and wife (the playfulness, helping with her jewelry), Victoria neatly resolving her husband's place at her side, Ernest falling for Harriett and Victoria choosing physical closeness with Albert over abstinence.  I really liked the gown Victoria wore when meeting with her uncle and I wish Emma and Wellington would just leave.  She's catty and he's obnoxious. The kitchen people continue to suck up screen time (even more with the extended scenes) with their uninteresting stories and little Dash is still a cutie. 

ETA: Effective birth control wasn't introduced until 1960, before that it was a crapshoot with a whole lot of misinformation.  

Edited February 13, 2017 by taurusrose

[Ohmo]

52 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

I really liked the gown Victoria wore when meeting with her uncle

If you're talking about the cream-colored gown, I agree, it looked stunning on both character and actress.

Don't know if the Grammys had anything to do with it or the fact that Albert was playing the piano in this episode, but the costuming and the actor's hair had me thinking of Prince (the late singer) every time I saw Albert tonight.

I liked how Victoria handled the dinner issue with her uncle, and I like Scarritt and the royal pastry chef.

[Arwen Evenstar]

50 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Don't know if the Grammys had anything to do with it or the fact that Albert was playing the piano in this episode, but the costuming and the actor's hair had me thinking of Prince (the late singer) every time I saw Albert tonight.

It probably won't come as any surprise to you that you haven't been the first poster to suggest Albert resembled Prince.  When I read that a few days ago, I couldn't see it. I rewatched the wedding today, and my husband commented to me that he looked like Prince...LOL I told him some of the posters on the Victoria forum had said as much. I finally had to agree.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar

[CarpeDiem54]

I was almost out after last week, mainly because of the sour, boring Albert and the lack of chemistry between him and Victoria.  I decided to hang in there, though, and am glad I did.  Albert became a lot more interesting and his motivations are more  understandable.  I did like Albert's speech and the fact that he wants to become involved in worthwhile causes.

However, the actor, whom I have never heard of before now, is still lacking in his characterization, I feel.  He plays him in a very flat monotone kind of way with no subtlety in his facial expressions - a slight smirk, raising of his eyebrows, a smile here and there would be nice.  Oh, wait, he did smile once.   Victoria, on the other hand, is being portrayed as a young woman who's learning her role of queen and is quite the lusty young wife.  Her desire and love for Albert is coming across quite nicely.  Albert, on the other hand, is acting like he only regards her as a brood mare, with no underlying actual physical attraction at all other than he wants to become a father.

The charming Ernest showed his disagreeable side.  He was quite spiteful making poor Lohlein stay behind even though Ernest knew he had a girl back home.  Just because he couldn't stay and fool around with the married lady, he punished Lohlein by making him give up his love interest, too.

I love Dash!

[Ina123]

I love Albert and I see and feel the chemistry. I'm apparently in the minority; I don't care for Ernst at all. Glad to see him go home.

[skyways]

At least finally, some one likes the downstairs staff. Does anyone here know if it's the same muffin man who lives on drury lane? ?

Edited February 13, 2017 by skyways

[scenicbyway]

Finally a good episode!  I still find the lighting really dark, but I did notice when Albert was walking around the palace surveying the dust and grime that things seemed brighter.  Some of the scenes are so dark (the nighttime walk to the slum for instance) that it's difficult to see the characters on the screen.

Albert was great in this episode, instead of continually brooding, he found himself a cause.  Although I am surprised that he was allowed to go and make a speech.  Even with something like slavery, I'm surprised he was allowed to take a stand.  The constant "I want to be a father" nonsense was silly, you've been married literally 5 minutes, give it a few weeks for pete's sake.  I like that it showed Victoria just wanted him to herself for a while.  She knew they'd have to have kids eventually, but Albert was finally someone just for her on her side.  Pity they didn't really have birth control back then.  Thinking back to Downton Abbey when Mary sought out birth control it really was something frowned upon until the 1950's and 60's.  Victoria didn't have a chance.  I can't imagine how frightening it must've been to know how her cousin died in childbirth and then have to give birth herself while also worrying about the country.

Bye Ernst!  I thought it was sweet that he'd fallen for the Duchess, and I thought it was interesting that Albert immediately picked up on it.  Poor servant though, couldn't he have refused?  I guess he would've had to pay his own way home though.

Where are they going with the dresser and chef?  Half the time he's stalking her in a slightly scary way and other times he seems genuinely nice.  She just seems frightened either way.  I don't get it at all or why we even need to have a downstairs look.

[Constantinople]

It's a tad ironic that in an episode in which Albert shines by decrying slavery, Lohlein is ordered by Ernest to stay in England even though Lohlein wishes to return to Coburg.  Ernest didn't even care when Lohlein mentioned he had a girl back in Coburg.

Serving as Albert's valet isn't the same as slavery, but how much choice did Lohlein really have?  If he doesn't "agree", Lohlein risked being unemployed, without a reference and stuck in a country with whose language he had limited proficiecny.  If he returns home, assuming he even has the means to do so, he's risks being persona non grata for defying the heir to Coburg.

[benteen]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices that Albert looks and dresses like Prince.

That aside, really enjoyed this episode and wasn't sure I would with Rufus Sewell's character having exited.  I like Albert a lot and the actor has good chemistry with Jenna Coleman.

I thought Jenna Coleman was good on Doctor Who but I hated her character.  I blame Steven Moffat's writing.  He's lousy with female characters and not exactly great at times with male characters.

Edited February 13, 2017 by benteen

[blackwing]

I declared that I was out after last week... I half watched last night while out of town for work.  Still really not feeling it.  I do like the earnestness of the queen but I truly cannot stand Albert.  I'm not sure if it's the actor or whatnot, but he comes across to me as still dull and boring.  Although admittedly, I think a good part of why I dislike him is his "look".  It seems like the real Albert had a receding hairline and tried to cover it up with the combover, but this Albert with the frizzy hair... do not like.

The scenes with the prostitute maid and the Italian cook and her friend's baby or whatever... zzzzzzzzzzzz.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, voiceover said:

Wonder if Gretchen told Albert about that, too?

I doubt it, since he knew it wasn't accurate advice.

2 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Bye Ernst!  I thought it was sweet that he'd fallen for the Duchess

I thought it was awful to seriously woo a married woman. Ernst's mother lost her children for taking up with a married man.  Would Ernst want that to happen to the Duchess of Sutherland if she had an affair with him?  Very selfish.  She was smart enough not to want more than a flirtation.

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Ernest didn't even care when Lohlein mentioned he had a girl back in Coburg.

If Coburg was like England, people in service were not meant to have personal lives. That's why "Mrs." Jenkins, Lehzen, and Penge have never married. The downstairs marriages in Downton Abbey, a century later, were not realistic.

Edited February 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[jschoolgirl]

The reason we are seeing the downstairs staff is because that worked beautifully for Downton Abbey. Hopefully the showrunners will see that it's not working here and stop it in any future seasons.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices that Albert looks and dresses like Prince.

Well, when we consider chronological truth, isn't it more appropriate to say that Prince looked and dressed like Albert?

[PJ123]

Show is much more tolerable when I skip the downstairs portions.  Glad Albert found a notable purpose before the kids came along.

Off Topic: Yes Moffatt stayed too long with Doctor Who.  Clara should have left during the Christmas special the year before she actually did - perfect ending for her.  Total shame Capaldi is leaving at the same time.  Would have loved to see a Moffatt-less Who before leaving.

[iMonrey]

LOL on Victoria thinking jumping up and down would prevent pregnancy - that urban legend still makes the rounds, even today, as I recall from an episode of Roseanne. 

I hope now that Albert has found a cause to throw himself into he'll stop being a whiny little bitch about his status in life. I've been defending him up until now but now that he has gone forward with the marriage it's time for him to stop sulking and accept his lot in life.

The downstairs characters are just not working. I think they could have worked if the writers had done a better job of fleshing them out and giving us a reason to care about them, but they have utterly failed to do that. I'm also still not clear on who this "Duchess" is that Ernst was so crazy about. So it occurs to me the characterization on this show, in general, is pretty weak. We get a fairly good sense of Victoria and Albert and, to a lesser extent, Melbourne - but that's about it. Maybe if they had dispensed with the notion of a "downstairs" story altogether, the writers could have done a better job fleshing out some of these peripheral characters like the ladies in waiting, the uncles, and Victoria's mother. Even she's been given short shrift on this show. 

[Kohola3]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So it occurs to me the characterization on this show, in general, is pretty weak.

I thought it was just me. I have a dickens of a time telling them apart.  Plus they all look alike to me!

[voiceover]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I doubt it, since he knew it wasn't accurate advice.

That's what I meant.  Albert knew it wasn't accurate; yet prior to his wedding he didn't know anything about sex until Gretchen.  So I was implying that Gretchen told him: "And btw: jumping up and down doesn't get rid of it."

Though I was really just kidding.

6 hours ago, Ina123 said:

 I'm apparently in the minority; I don't care for Ernst at all. Glad to see him go home.

Eh, more for me.

[iMonrey]

I still keep expecting Ernst to snap and murder someone, I'm so used to seeing Oakes play violent psychopaths.

[TaurusRose]

14 hours ago, Ohmo said:

If you're talking about the cream-colored gown, I agree, it looked stunning on both character and actress.

Yes, that's the one.

9 hours ago, CarpeDiem54 said:

Her desire and love for Albert is coming across quite nicely.  Albert, on the other hand, is acting like he only regards her as a brood mare, with no underlying actual physical attraction at all other than he wants to become a father.

The charming Ernest showed his disagreeable side.  He was quite spiteful making poor Lohlein stay behind even though Ernest knew he had a girl back home.  Just because he couldn't stay and fool around with the married lady, he punished Lohlein by making him give up his love interest, too.

I love Dash!

Wow.  I think that's unfair. I haven't seen any evidence that Albert thinks of Victoria as a "brood mare," and plenty of evidence that he desires her.   As for Ernest's motivation being spiteful, again, I disagree.  Lohlein appears to be an efficient and loyal valet.  Ernest is aware of Albert's difficulty fitting in and feeling at home in his new wife's kingdom.  I think Ernest is thinking more of Albert and giving him some sense of familiarity and comfort.  And honestly, given the time and place, why wouldn't he?  Albert is his beloved brother.  At any rate, I don't think Ernest was trying to be spiteful.  Also, not that it would have changed anything, but Lohlein didn't mention his girl until after Ernest told him he was staying.

3 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

I still find the lighting really dark, but I did notice when Albert was walking around the palace surveying the dust and grime that things seemed brighter.  Some of the scenes are so dark (the nighttime walk to the slum for instance) that it's difficult to see the characters on the screen.

Where are they going with the dresser and chef?  Half the time he's stalking her in a slightly scary way and other times he seems genuinely nice.  She just seems frightened either way.  I don't get it at all or why we even need to have a downstairs look.

I was waiting for Albert to get on Penge's case for the state of the palace, so I was a bit surprised when he didn't.  I don't really give a rat's ass about junior dresser and chef, but I do like seeing all of the gorgeous desserts he creates.  

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

It seems like the real Albert had a receding hairline and tried to cover it up with the combover, but this Albert with the frizzy hair... do not like.

Well, to be fair, photographs showing the image of Albert you're referring to seem to be 20 years into the marriage.  Earlier images of Albert (granted they are paintings) show him with a good head of hair.  

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I hope now that Albert has found a cause to throw himself into he'll stop being a whiny little bitch about his status in life. I've been defending him up until now but now that he has gone forward with the marriage it's time for him to stop sulking and accept his lot in life.

If they continue moving character growth forward, I don't think we have to worry about this; although IMHO, Albert wasn't whining.  He had legitmate concerns, expressed them, and now he's looking for his own place/position, one that he has earned.  

Quote

I'm also still not clear on who this "Duchess" is that Ernst was so crazy about. So it occurs to me the characterization on this show, in general, is pretty weak. We get a fairly good sense of Victoria and Albert and, to a lesser extent, Melbourne - but that's about it. Maybe if they had dispensed with the notion of a "downstairs" story altogether, the writers could have done a better job fleshing out some of these peripheral characters like the ladies in waiting, the uncles, and Victoria's mother. Even she's been given short shrift on this show.

In the series, they are indeed giving short shrift to the Duchess of Sutherland, shoving her into the background as merely a married lady-in-waiting to the queen who apparently doesn't mind spending little time with her husband and children.  You can read about the real person here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Sutherland-Leveson-Gower,_Duchess_of_Sutherland  At any rate, I would rather get a little more background on the court players rather than the kitchen crew's glimpse of life.    

I know I've spent a lot of time talking Albert in this post, but I really did love everything about Victoria in this episode, too.  I have to laugh that out of all the women she asked for birth control advice, she went to the one who had the least knowledge.  Wonder why it didn't occur to her to go to her mother or Harriet?   

Edited February 13, 2017 by taurusrose

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The downstairs characters are just not working. I think they could have worked if the writers had done a better job of fleshing them out and giving us a reason to care about them, but they have utterly failed to do that. I'm also still not clear on who this "Duchess" is that Ernst was so crazy about. So it occurs to me the characterization on this show, in general, is pretty weak. We get a fairly good sense of Victoria and Albert and, to a lesser extent, Melbourne - but that's about it. Maybe if they had dispensed with the notion of a "downstairs" story altogether, the writers could have done a better job fleshing out some of these peripheral characters like the ladies in waiting, the uncles, and Victoria's mother. Even she's been given short shrift on this show. 

Yep.  This.  Even the main characters, Victoria and Albert, have been typecast and stereotyped.  Victoria is the young, innocent and naive woman who now faces the enormity of being queen.  Albert is the whiny, sullen, bitchy and resentful man who is offended that he has been reduced to being known as someone's husband.

I have no idea who this Duchess is that Ernst was banging... most of the women look alike to me.  If you put the German governess, this Duchess, Melbourne's partner, and any of the ladies in waiting all in a line, I wouldn't be able to distinguish amongst any of them.

I blame all of this on Daisy Goodwin.  If it were up to me, she should give 80% of her profits from her book and this show to Julian Fellowes.  She has clearly ripped off "Downton Abbey", as evidenced by her thoroughly disastrous misconception that there has to be a "downstairs" element to this show.  And I would have her give 15% of her profits to the makers of "The Crown".  The only reason why I deigned to watch this show in the first place was because of missing "Downton Abbey" and then having my interest in post-Tudor monarchy piqued by "The Crown".  Maybe Goodwin's work comes across better in her fictional novel than translated on the screen.  I could see the downstairs stuff reading better on paper.

[TaurusRose]

10 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 The only reason why I deigned to watch this show in the first place was because of missing "Downton Abbey" and then having my interest in post-Tudor monarchy piqued by "The Crown".  Maybe Goodwin's work comes across better in her fictional novel than translated on the screen.  I could see the downstairs stuff reading better on paper.

I have started watching Downton Abbey since it's been mentioned several times in these threads.  I think I'm up to S1E4.  I can already tell the downstairs staff is a well-trained army and their leader does not suffer fools lightly.  Also, their plots and schemes are mildly entertaining.  The lord of the manor seems like a good man, but his mother, wife and daughters are raging, snotty bitches.  To bring this back on topic, I didn't realize that JF was involved with DA; he also wrote the script for Young Victoria.  Maybe some of the complaints about this series could have been tempered if JF and DG had collaborated...?

[Constantinople]

36 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I blame all of this on Daisy Goodwin.  If it were up to me, she should give 80% of her profits from her book and this show to Julian Fellowes.  She has clearly ripped off "Downton Abbey", as evidenced by her thoroughly disastrous misconception that there has to be a "downstairs" element to this show.

And Downton Abbey ripped off Upstairs Downstairs.

That said, I agree the writer has a misconception that there must be a downstairs element to the show.  I'm here for Victoria and Co., not her hairdresser's friend's sick kid.  Unless they can tie that into the main story in an interesting way, better to leave it out.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Constantinople

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Albert wasn't whining.  He had legitimate concerns, expressed them, and now he's looking for his own place/position, one that he has earned. 

I agree with you up until the point where the wedding took place - I've been defending his attitude for the past two episodes. However, by the time this one rolled around, and he seemed to still be sulking over the fact that he wasn't given anything more important to do than blot the ink on his wife's signature, I'd finally had enough of him. To be fair, I also think the actor has a natural "resting sulk face," so that doesn't help.

That said, when his private secretary started correcting his pronunciation of various names and words, I thought "uh-oh, Albert's going to throw a fit." So  I was pleasantly surprised when he showed appreciation for the help while preparing his speech. (I also chuckled at the idea him seeing newspaper cartoons depicting him as a sausage.)

Speaking of Albert's private secretary: at first I had no idea who he was until I remembered Lord M. had him appointed to that position. Here, again, is another character who should be more fleshed out, and the show has missed yet another opportunity to do so, in lieu of spending time on these poorly developed servant characters.

[jumper sage]

4 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

The constant "I want to be a father" nonsense was silly, you've been married literally 5 minutes, give it a few weeks for pete's sake.

That is his job.  They needed an heir for the continuation of the line.  Even in the 1980s Princess Diana was pushed and gossiped about and she had an heir and a spare quite quickly.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

Wonder why it didn't occur to her to go to her mother or Harriet?   

Her mother was just as anxious for Victoria to have a son as anyone else was, and certainly wasn't her confidante.

Edited February 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[vibeology]

I have to agree with those who feel that most of the characters are poorly fleshed out and that less time with the downstairs folk might give us more chance with some of the lesser nobles who surround Victoria.

Aside from Victoria, Albert, Dash and Lord M none of the other upstairs figures are all that well defined. Mother Vicky is okay and Ernest was really developing, Lehzen I can recognize and then... Those women around Victoria look the same and haven't done enough to be distinct people. I know we keep seeing Victoria's uncles but I don't think any one of them has a character beyond "I'm a Prince and I want people to respect that!" The Duke of Wellington keeps popping up but his only character trait so far is snobby. Albert's English Secretary was great in this episode and I do hope they do more with him but of course I don't know his name so they need to do a great deal more.

I think the big problem is, except for Skerrett who might do Victoria's hair once or twice and episode, none of the other downstairs people really interact with the Royal family so there is a huge disconnect. I'd rather see more about the people who do interact with Victoria and Albert because their personal lives will have more of an influence on the advice and guidance they give Victoria.

[TaurusRose]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree with you up until the point where the wedding took place - I've been defending his attitude for the past two episodes. However, by the time this one rolled around, and he seemed to still be sulking over the fact that he wasn't given anything more important to do than blot the ink on his wife's signature, I'd finally had enough of him. To be fair, I also think the actor has a natural "resting sulk face," so that doesn't help.

I'm willing to cut Albert slack because I know how it feels to be the "other," having people snicker and think that they're better than you when they have no cause to think themselves superior.  I know how it feels to struggle to find your sense of self and purpose in a strange and hostile place. That and the fact that he said something that set his character up for me right out of the gate (e.g. he tries not to say things that are not true and he tries to be kind when he can) makes me predisposed to like Albert and empathize with him.  That set him light years ahead of the mostly pompous, entitled people he found himself surrounded by. "Resting sulk face" beats "resting bitch face," which I have.  LOL

22 hours ago, vibeology said:

Those women around Victoria look the same and haven't done enough to be distinct people. I know we keep seeing Victoria's uncles but I don't think any one of them has a character beyond "I'm a Prince and I want people to respect that!" The Duke of Wellington keeps popping up but his only character trait so far is snobby. Albert's English Secretary was great in this episode and I do hope they do more with him but of course I don't know his name so they need to do a great deal more.

I think the big problem is, except for Skerrett who might do Victoria's hair once or twice and episode, none of the other downstairs people really interact with the Royal family so there is a huge disconnect. I'd rather see more about the people who do interact with Victoria and Albert because their personal lives will have more of an influence on the advice and guidance they give Victoria.

Fortunately, there're only two of them and not a slew of faces interchangeable with each other.  I find myself liking Anson (Albert's secretary) and Lohlein (valet) the best out of the secondary characters.  Their scenes are organic and I know that I'm not supposed to get overly involved with either of them.  I think the way Victoria's uncles have been portrayed (the ones from Coburg) have colored the perception of Albert.  The uncles come across as greedy, self-serving, grasping minor nobles all too eager to suck off England's teat. Leopold was all over pushing Albert to be materialistic and wanting him to push his will on an "impressionable" Victoria.  As to your second point, I really agree.

Edited February 14, 2017 by taurusrose

[humbleopinion]

I wish I could go back and be watching Downton Abbey for the first time...especially the first 3 seasons...lucky you...

We see Albert taking control of his life by keeping his wife happy in the sack, taking a public stand on social causes and noticing the little things like dust on the molding and books prompting him to note that the household staff is sloppy/lazy.

This Albert who welled up when his brother left, flirts with his wife by fastening her jewelry and is revved up and ready for a roll in the hay after his speech is one that I can watch.

No more whispering,mumbling and muttering Albert...please

[tennisgurl]

This was a really good one! I thought it was good that we got some more of Albert and his insecurities and his personality. I don't mind him looking for more to do than be royal arm candy, as long as he doesn't get annoying and mean about it. I liked that we got more details about his issues (my English sucks and all people around her want to do is talk about the damn weather!), and we saw the relationship between he and Victoria grow more beyond the honeymoon phase.

I was also happy to see Victoria growing into her position, and learning the nuances of the court and her life as queen. She seemed a lot older in this one too, for some reason. Something about how Jenna played her, she seemed like less of an excitable little girl. I also like that she isn't in any hurry to have kids. Jumping up and down? Oh Victoria, life really WAS weird before the internet wasn't it? I can understand both Albert and Victoria with the kids issue. Victoria is still a young newlywed who is still in the honeymoon phase, has hardly even known her husband, wants to get to be with just him for awhile, and still has to worry about ruling a country. Albert, on the other hand, is very much aware of the fact that his one job here is to have an heir with Victoria. He has other duties and things he wants to do, certainly, but he knows the score. He needs to produce an heir or things get bad. I get it.

I do wish the lighting was a bit better. I want to see all the beautiful clothes in all their historical glory.

[chitowngirl]

Since Victoria was the first Monarch to live in Buckingham and she's been on the throne about 2-3 years at this point, the servants really aren't doing their jobs seeing how dusty everything is.

[jumper sage]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

I wish I could go back and be watching Downton Abbey for the first time...especially the first 3 seasons...lucky you...

You can probably check them out at your local library.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I do wish the lighting was a bit better. I want to see all the beautiful clothes in all their historical glory.

Just a peek into "finding his place".

[BooksRule]

I did begin to like Albert a little this episode.  I got impatient with him in earlier ones because he was so sulky and bored.  (Did he actually think that being the husband of the queen would give him free reign to do whatever he wanted and that it would give him any type of power?)  He seems to be finding a purpose, which is good.  

I still don't think that he's particularly good-looking (sorry, actor playing Albert!), but I did really like the black (or was it dark blue) outfit that he was wearing when he made his speech.  And, I agree with others that Victoria's cream gown was beautiful. 

[gingerella]

While I appreciate the gown and décor porn, I find it odd and perplexing that a show about Queen Victoria is so devoid of actual, you know, monarch work. I mean we saw at least two scenes where Victoria is painting or drawing, gossiping with her ladies in waiting. Doesn't she have actual ruling to be doing? Where is her current Prime Minister? Is Lord M still PM, and why would the PM stay away simply because the Queen is now married? Being married doesn't preclude doing her job as ruler of the British Monarchy, does it? It just all feels so fluffy, when so much happened under Victoria's rule. I enjoyed the mentions of international documents and issues that required her attending when she was working with Lord M. But now it seems like Victoria is merely just another courtesan, engaged in mindless silly feminine stuff all day long. It's a bizarre way to look at one of the greatest British monarchs to ever reign, unless there's something I'm just not getting here.

[Moxie Cat]

Been meaning to ask for weeks: who is Lord Alfred? He's the blond guy who often seems to be V's third lady in waiting. He seems like half servant, half family member. Can anyone clarify who he is? A cousin maybe?

[jumper sage]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

Doesn't she have actual ruling to be doing? Where is her current Prime Minister? Is Lord M still PM, and why would the PM stay away simply because the Queen is now married? Being married doesn't preclude doing her job as ruler of the British Monarchy, does it?

By this time in history the monarch did not wield much power could only influence.  She does rise to the occasion though, later in life.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Victoria jumping up and down...omg..funny by today's standards. The level of ignorance back then was astounding, and it didn't seem to matter if one was the queen herself or a scullery maid.

 

13 hours ago, jumper sage said:

By this time in history the monarch did not wield much power could only influence.  She does rise to the occasion though, later in life.

The role of the monarchy in Britain is largely ceremonial. Other than being recognized as head of the Church of England and participating in some of the rituals in Parliament, the only other duties are the conferring of titles, knighthood and recognition of extraordinary citizens, and putting the seal on a tin of baked beans because you like them...

[elle]

  7 hours ago, blackwing said:

I blame all of this on Daisy Goodwin.  If it were up to me, she should give 80% of her profits from her book and this show to Julian Fellowes.  She has clearly ripped off "Downton Abbey", as evidenced by her thoroughly disastrous misconception that there has to be a "downstairs" element to this show.

And Downton Abbey ripped off Upstairs Downstairs.

That said, I agree the writer has a misconception that there must be a downstairs element to the show.  I'm here for Victoria and Co., not her hairdresser's friend's sick kid.  Unless they can tie that into the main story in an interesting way, better to leave it out.

Upstairs Downstairs still is the better series

I agree that I am not interested in the hairdresser's friend's sick kid, however, I wonder if the writers are using this and the other downstairs people to show what was happening in history and different the lives are of the everyday people compared to what is going on in the palace. Does Victoria know about the sickness? Will we see some more of Albert's social conscience?

Do I still have issues with the realism of a woman coming out of nowhere to be the Queen's hairdresser, yes, yes, I do.

[blackwing]

42 minutes ago, elle said:

I agree that I am not interested in the hairdresser's friend's sick kid, however, I wonder if the writers are using this and the other downstairs people to show what was happening in history and different the lives are of the everyday people compared to what is going on in the palace. Does Victoria know about the sickness? Will we see some more of Albert's social conscience?

If that's what is going on, then Goodwin is doing an extremely poor job of making that point come across.  I still submit that she tells us all about these people because she thinks "the public" needs and wants that downstairs element.  I will acknowledge that there was a tie between those uprisers, one of whom was the nephew of the housekeeper, leading the housekeeper crying and moping, leading to Victoria pardoning the death sentence of the uprisers.  But that's about it.

Chiefly, there has been absolutely no explanation or reason for all the focus on the lady's maid prostitute.  Victoria isn't friends with her.  She's not a confidante.  She does Victoria's hair every so often, steals her used gloves, spends a lot of time with her friend's baby, and seems to constantly be talking to the Italian Cook.  That's it.  Why so much focus on her?

It's almost like the theme of this show is to have two point-of-view characters.  One is Queen Victoria.  A privileged young woman who dealt a fantastic station in life.  She is naive and innocent and is trying to learn her role.  The other is Lady's Maid Prostitute.  A former prostitute who is dealt an unfortunate station in life.  She is doing all she can to make her life better.  She sells gloves to make money because why shouldn't she take the opportunity.  She has a good position in the Queen's household and wants to help her poor prostitute friend who is saddled with a sick baby.  And she is innocent and trying to fend off the advances of this aggressive Italian Cook.  

Queen Victoria and Lady's Maid Prostitute (apologies, I still don't know her name).  Opposite ends of life.  But both are WOMEN, and women can overcome all challenges!

To that, I say, if that is the theme of this show... then EPIC FAILURE.   Epic of the most epic proportions.  Nothing will ever make me care about Lady's Maid Prostitute.

[elle]

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

If that's what is going on, then Goodwin is doing an extremely poor job of making that point come across.  I still submit that she tells us all about these people because she thinks "the public" needs and wants that downstairs element.  I will acknowledge that there was a tie between those uprisers, one of whom was the nephew of the housekeeper, leading the housekeeper crying and moping, leading to Victoria pardoning the death sentence of the uprisers.  But that's about it.

Which, we know, wasn't historically accurate.

I agree with you, I am not interested in the downstairs crew, or rather all the intrigue about the hairdresser.  Then again, I did find the German valet's story and the housekeeper's story interesting.

Although, I would be interested in seeing how things were run in the palace, just not all about their personal lives.  I just can not believe that the downstairs people would have that much to do with the rest of London.  Wasn't there a hierarchy amongst the servant class?  

21 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Queen Victoria and Lady's Maid Prostitute (apologies, I still don't know her name).  Opposite ends of life.  But both are WOMEN, and women can overcome all challenges!

With the help from men - Lord M and Italian chef, respectively ;0)