S03.E12: Untouchable

[Trini]

Quote

"Untouchable"

THE TOUCH OF DEATH - Barry and the team at S.T.A.R. Labs work together to bring down Clive Yorkin (guest star Matthew Kevin Anderson), a criminal meta-human who is methodically killing people by causing them to decompose at an accelerated rate. Joe becomes his next target but it's Iris who is caught in the crossfire. The Flash mentors Kid Flash and begins to elevate the newer speedster's training to another level.

Rob Hardy directed the episode written by Brooke Roberts & Judalina Neira

 

[Trini]

Producer preview:

[Jediknight]

So Caitlin is starting to like Julian?  Yep, he's dead or evil.  She has no luck at all.

Grodd and Gorilla City in a couple of weeks?  Awesome, here's hoping Solovar shows up.

[Lantern7]

Happy with the week off. Westminster is next week, and that's one less hour to put on my DVR.

Anybody here read Chew? Watching Barry and Iris affirm their love, I feel the only thing missing is a cut to May, where Barry is surrounded by the corpses of his friends, and not just Iris.

Good VOTW, though it's amusing that he didn't rate a nickname from Cisco.

Nice to see Joe's lady friend's daughter have a thing for Kid Flash. As if Wally wasn't a big enough dopeasaurus as it is. In the stinger, I see him vibrating his hand, and all I could think was, "Man, my Friday nights are gonna be a blast!"

Julian & Caitlin lurch towards an understanding, if not romance. Tom Felton could go online with a picture of himself holding a three-year contract with the show, and I'd still think "Dead man walking."

Gorilla City! Grodd! The Harrison Wells we can tolerate! Should be awesome.

[KirkB]

I may be missing something, but what made this guy so hard to stop? He wasn't really untouchable. He had to grab people or touch things to affect them. Barry or Wally should have been able to run by and knock him out before he could grab them. Granted, that would have made for a pretty short episode, but the same is true for every episode if either of them were using their powers to their utmost.

I am far more excited for Grodd's return than I care to admit.

Wait, they HAVE security at Star Labs?

Edited February 8, 2017 by KirkB

[Primal Slayer]

The more they have people fawn over Kid Flash, the more he becomes annoying to me. It is just sooooooooooooooooooo over the top. 

[bmoore4026]

.....why was Black Orchid a guy?

[thuganomics85]

Glad they at least already told Joe about what is going to happen to Iris, so they at least they aren't dragging this thing out.  I felt bad for Joe and Jesse L. Martin was amazing as always, but I still chuckled at all of his "You lied to me!" lines.  Sucks being on that end, doesn't it, Joe!

So, Barry's basically becoming the Harrison Wells to Wally's Barry, only not evil (I hope...)  Teaching him how to phrase few things, giving him the pep talks (that's refreshing!), and even busting out a "Run, Wally, Run!"  Feels like old times!

Glad they readdressed Julian's time as Alchemy, and the guilt over it.  I continue to enjoy his scenes with Caitlin.  Which means he is so doomed, since they are now going to get "a drink."  It never ends well for Caitlin's love interests!  That's why it's better to just take the Cisco love interests  approach of just flirting with him, and then bailing! 

Yorkin had cool powers, but I didn't understand why it made him invincible as well.  Also, it was one of those cases where his power was so big, that it kind of felt like he was half-assing it most of the time.  He probably could have just disintegrated entire buildings, instead of just dicking around.  But I guess that's just classic bad guy arrogance.

Jesse Quick is back!  Always down for more of Violette Beane in that outfit.  And the next episode is going to be about saving Harry from Gorilla Grodd?!  That should be fun! 

[benteen]

I thought it was a good episode. 

Yeah, I had to laugh at Joe getting all pissy at other people withholding information.

I actually like Caitlin and Julian together.

Edited February 8, 2017 by benteen

[TDT]

Julian better be smart and break things off with Caitlin,even if he does end up getting the literal"cold shoulder"..

Was funny seeing the Lego Batman movie characters pop up in the Berlanti/WB/DC logos

[Lady Calypso]

God, I know that they want me to like Kid Flash, but all I can think about is how I've seen these stories with him before. Plus, all this "Yay Kid Flash" from fans when he's only been around a couple of months at best is getting on my nerves. Barry isn't perfect and he certainly had his fun when he first started being The Flash, but Wally is a cocky little jerk about it. I'm really not amused by Flash vs Kid Flash. Maybe it's because I'm not a comics fan, so I couldn't care less about Kid Flash. He's just taking up space and screen time for me. I like Wally, but I hate Kid Flash. We've already seen all of this with Barry, so it really feels like repetition that we don't need. We don't need Wally getting pep talks every episode now. Come on; lazy writing, even if it was nice to have Barry give the pep talks. 

Also, Wally, maybe try not calling Barry by his name while out on the field. Just a thought. And also maybe don't declare yourself a winner. Bragging never works. 

I really do love Julian but now that him and Caitlin are for sure becoming a thing, I gotta worry about his safety by the end of the season. It was nice to touch on his guilt from Savitar. 

I'm still not liking HR, so seeing Jesse appear at the end got me all giddy. Harry's coming back! Yes! My favourite Wells! 

2 hours ago, KirkB said:

I may be missing something, but what made this guy so hard to stop? He wasn't really untouchable. He had to grab people or touch things to affect them. Barry or Wally should have been able to run by and knock him out before he could grab them. Granted, that would have made for a pretty short episode, but the same is true for every episode if either of them were using their powers to their utmost.

He actually was untouchable. It was shown when Joe tried to shoot him and the bullets disintegrated when they touched him. 

It was nice to see Iris tell her dad the truth, even if I wished they kept it secret from Joe for a while longer for karma. I understand why and I'm glad Iris confessed. I wasn't thrilled with Barry being blamed, but all was forgiven when Iris was in danger. 

[blugirlami21]

Solid episode. I like the team/family moments the best and this episode didn't disappoint. I liked the race at the beginning and the wagering as well. 

You know, I don't really mind Wally being a braggart. It's a way to differentiate himself from the older, more mature Barry and it fits in with his personality. I think the fact that underneath all that bravado the fact that Wally is a good kid, is a big help. His upset at not being fast enough to save Iris was very well done.

Speaking of Iris, I'm oddly happy that she's legitimately afraid to die. I feel like that's not something we see very often on the flash or on superhero shows in general. I also loved how supportive Barry has been all around. That he saw that she was starting to crack and knew that she needed to tell Joe what was going on so that he could be a comfort for her.

I thought Barry being thrust into the big brother/teacher role for Wally continues to be a great arc for his character. It's allowing him to be mature in an organic way and it gives him a real opportunity to show us how great of a hero he is because he has a still learning Wally as a foil.

I'm glad Joe is getting serious with Cecille, he deserves it. Wonder if they will let her in on the secret?

As for the Caitlin/Julian, Jaitlin? stuff. I can honestly leave it.  I'm over romance ultimately being her only consistent storyline. Why not do a storyline about her actually practicing the use of her powers so it's not always a struggle to use them? Or anything else? This will be her third romance in as many seasons and the first two guys are dead.

Edited February 8, 2017 by blugirlami21

[twoods]

Please don't let Julian die- poor Caitlin has been through enough. I like that he's remorseful about his role in Savitar, even though it wasn't his fault. And finally Joe knows about Iris- I hate when there is angst within the team because they are hiding something.

I also don't mind Wally being cocky about his powers- he is excited about being a hero, but is humbled as well. I love him and Jessie so am excited to see them next week. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by twoods

[Trini]

That was the most black people with speaking parts in one episode; must be a record.

Speaking of - I can't believe they brought back Mendez/Desért just to kill him off!  :(

Yay! Iris got to speak to three different women (and two were black) -- baby steps... And we saw her doing her job again! See, not that hard show.

So much family goodness with Barry and Wally, and Joe and Iris especially. Loved the family scene with the Wests and Cecile. Why have they not been using the Jitters set? (Still considering only paying attention to only the back half of next season.)

With the Cisco-focused episode last week, and Caitlin struggling with her powers this week (the whole separate Killer Frost personality thing is still ridiculous), I'm disappointed that there haven't been any Cisco/Caitlin heart-to-hearts. The show is ignoring the fact that they are supposed to be close friends in favor of Cisco/HR and Caitlin/Julian. ...

...So I guess they are going there with Caitlin and Julian? Good luck, mate.

Oh hey, the show remembered that some members of Team Flash have jobs at CCPD!

Yay, Jesse! Boo, Grodd! But yay, Earth-2!!

[Kilcanon]

Did I miss something? Didn't a couple of episodes ago Julian claim to have a girlfriend? Maybe I'm misremembering him with Caitlin's horrible, romance-driven plotlines...but if not, the poor girl is probably commiserating with Paul from Arrow.

[Richness]

I still don't get why Caitlin's powers make her go evil. Every time this show goes there, I just die a little more inside. Still hate HR and his damn drumstick.

[Spaceman Spiff]

A decent episode. It was fun watching Wally get knocked down by a wall consistently as well as his ego being shattered a bit, but then he goes and ruins it by gloating when he catches the bad guy. Maybe he can go to Coast City where his number one fan lives, you know the one who thought the only good thing about Central City was Kid Flash, bleh. I did like her mom saying Kid Flash was too much of a show boat.

Nice Julian and Caitlin interaction, but I seriously can't believe they are going there with them. Hopefully this is more of a friendship then romantic interest. One can hope. Good West Family scenes.

Another Julio cameo was fun. Good team work the entire episode, see what happens when we don't keep secretes and work together. The next two episodes look like they will be awesome with E2, Jessie Quick and Grodd.

[phoenics]

Barry phased a whole freakin train.

A TRAIN.  

A TRAIN FULL OF PEOPLE.

That was honestly the dopest stunt he's pulled ALL season and he did it without Team Flash needing to tell him or hint for him to do that.  MORE of that show.  And he was shown doing his job?  YES!  MORE!  And that part in the race with Wally where he phased - I literally screamed because it was so unexpected and smart.  And the train scene - I literally SAT bolt upright when I realized they couldn't just phase everyone out and they'd have to come up with something else.  Kudos Barry - that was just so awesome.

I continue to hate the whole "my powers make me evil" aspect of Caitlin/KF.  It allows her to do awful things and have zero repercussions.  She was legit going to just let Iris die?  And yet again she has to be convinced by folks to help?  Ugh - I really don't like this storyline because the easiest way to do better would be for her to simply be afraid of becoming a heat vampire and always searching for a cure.  But I guess they just want her to be able to go back to being "normal" Caitlin so no go on that.  But it's STUPID to have her going "evil" just because she has powers.  I hate it because it literally means she can be full blown evil and not have to account for much of anything with the gang.  

Iris continues to be awesome.  I'm glad we are getting to see/hear her pov more and see that she's actually afraid.  And I like seeing a more mature, calm Barry be reassuring and comforting - it used to be Iris' job to comfort others.  Although I did like her pep speech to Caitlin in Star Labs after Iris was touched by the VOTW.  I didn't like that she had to talk Cait into helping her because that should have gone without saying (stupid powers=evil plot), but go Iris.

And poor Joe - all the West moments were awesome.  Loved Kid Flash and his groupie.  The VOTW was really compelling too.

Really enjoyable episode.  So enjoyable for my sister that she forgot This is Us was coming on right after and raced off to watch it after I reminded her (I am behind so have to catch up later).  But I haven't laughed or cheered that much in a Flash episode in a long while.  

That "ghost train" Barry did is still the dopest thing ever.

[kirinan]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm still not liking HR, so seeing Jesse appear at the end got me all giddy. Harry's coming back! Yes! My favourite Wells! 

I would love it if they'd ditch HR and bring Harry back. I've tried, but I just can't like HR. And save me a seat on the "Caitlin's powers make her evil" hate train. What, because her powers are cold, her heart has to be, too? Why can't there be evil Killer Frosts in some universes, and good meta Caitlins in others? Because there can't be too many good female superheroes? Lazy, writers. Use your imaginations and turn her into a kickass female hero. They do exist elsewhere, you know. 

[RedVitC]

While I didn't like it as much as last week's episode, it was a solid episode.

I really like Wally. I think the way he enjoys everything that comes with being Kid Flash brings a fun, different dynamic and it establishes his 'next generation' thing. I do wonder how they'll deal with the character if he does become faster than Barry.... Since he got his powers from Flashpoint I wonder if there will be repercussions later down the road (and they'll use that to make him slower than Barry).

While I question the decision to have Iris be in danger of dying this episode when the overarching plot is her possibly dying in the future, I think it was handled ok. Iris got to express her fear, we saw her working for a bit, and got to be the one to decide when to tell Joe (I didn't agree with her not telling Joe, but I like that they left the decision up to her). I cried again during the scene.

I really don't know why the show doesn't have Iris and Caitlin interact more. They're different, sure, but in television that might lead to a more interesting friendship than if they were the same type of character (and it should probably lead to more story, not less). Speaking of Caitlin, I still don't understand the 'powers make her evil' thing as if there is a separate entity waiting to take over, but since that's clearly what they've chosen to go with (for now?), I'll try to accept it. 

And Barry and Iris together remain adorable. The cutest thing was after Iris had that romantic speech at the end, Barry said 'I love you (too?)' and then teased her by saying 'that was nice'. I love it when they tease each other.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

I would love it if they'd ditch HR and bring Harry back. I've tried, but I just can't like HR. And save me a seat on the "Caitlin's powers make her evil" hate train. What, because her powers are cold, her heart has to be, too? Why can't there be evil Killer Frosts in some universes, and good meta Caitlins in others? Because there can't be too many good female superheroes? Lazy, writers. Use your imaginations and turn her into a kickass female hero. They do exist elsewhere, you know. 

Part of it is the team becoming too overpowered if they have two Flashes, Vibe, and KF all working together.  Another part is the whole "beloved friend turns evil" thing.  While they could have made Cisco evil after Flashpoint he's already established as the comic relief guy so I don't think they want to remove that from the show.  Evil Wally is redundant since we have Savitar.  That leaves Caitlin as the potentially evil one even though powers are supposed to prove who you really are inside, not an instant switch to evil.

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, RedVitC said:

And Barry and Iris together remain adorable. The cutest thing was after Iris had that romantic speech at the end, Barry said 'I love you (too?)' and then teased her by saying 'that was nice'. I love it when they tease each other.

I guarantee you that was an ad-lib. I'd bet money on it.

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, Richness said:

I still don't get why Caitlin's powers make her go evil. Every time this show goes there, I just die a little more inside. Still hate HR and his damn drumstick.

It's probably giving the showrunners too much credit, but I can see one way that it would make sense.

Julian mentioned just this episode that there is still one more meta created by Alchemy unaccounted for and that he was going to find out who they were just before Caitlin chatted him up and invited him for drinks. The metas that Alchemy created also adopted aspects of themselves from their original timeline.

So if Caitlin was the last Alchemy created meta (the details of how she'd be unaware of the whole cocoon thing are obviously problematic) then her taking on the personality traits of Killer Frost when she used her powers would actually make a bit of sense in terms of continuity.

But this would require far more foresight than I think possible so its more likely they came up with the 'might go crazy/evil' thing just a means of making her powers problematic enough that she can't just use what is basically "anti-speed" (at the atomic level; Snart's cold gun in metahuman form) to shut down the threat of Savitar instead of having to get Barry fast enough to do it himself (because the Wally plan will necessarily fail because its their main plan now and those NEVER work).

Also, between Barry/Iris' schmoopy in love and Barry's absolute insistence they will save her, I almost feel like they're setting it up for Barry to actually FAIL to save Iris. While I highly doubt they'd write Iris out of the series permanently (she's not Laurel Lance), Pre-Flashpoint Iris WAS killed by a speedster (Professor Zoom) and only came back via 30th Century time-travel and transferring her consciousness into a cloned body. In other words, its something the show-runners could milk a cliffhanger (dead Iris) and a season four plot line out of (i.e. the Flash Legacy in the 30th Century, like the Tornado Twins and his grandchildren Bart Allen and XS).

[Writing Wrongs]

The villain reminded me of the one from the Smallville Season 1 episode "Reaper".

[rubyred]

I must have missed it -- did they ever explain how "Untouchable" got from Flashpoint to the current timeline? He was killing all these cops that he said he "remembered" from an entirely different universe. Is this a handwave moment?

[JapMo]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I guarantee you that was an ad-lib. I'd bet money on it.

I absolutely agree, Ruby.  As soon as he said it and she kind of laughed before they kissed, I felt it wasn't in the script. 

Loved everything about the episode.  It kept me on the edge of my seat.  Two things I keep sensing:  Don't know why, but I keep having a strong feeling that Joe will be the one who dies this season.  And I'm just naturally suspicious of the DA girlfriend and now her daughter.  Don't tell me everything's innocent with them. 

[Lady Calypso]

56 minutes ago, rubyred said:

I must have missed it -- did they ever explain how "Untouchable" got from Flashpoint to the current timeline? He was killing all these cops that he said he "remembered" from an entirely different universe. Is this a handwave moment?

Presumably, at some point before they stopped Alchemy/Julian, he created Untouchable. Now, why he's been wandering around for at least a couple of months and not exacting his revenge is a question I have. 

[immortalfrieza]

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

It's probably giving the showrunners too much credit, but I can see one way that it would make sense.

Julian mentioned just this episode that there is still one more meta created by Alchemy unaccounted for and that he was going to find out who they were just before Caitlin chatted him up and invited him for drinks. The metas that Alchemy created also adopted aspects of themselves from their original timeline.

So if Caitlin was the last Alchemy created meta (the details of how she'd be unaware of the whole cocoon thing are obviously problematic) then her taking on the personality traits of Killer Frost when she used her powers would actually make a bit of sense in terms of continuity.

Actually it wouldn't, because we know for a fact that Flashpoint Catlin wasn't Killer Frost or otherwise had powers either, thus she couldn't be turned into a meta by Alchemy. Flashpoint Catlin was just a Pediatrician Barry brought into things because she was a friend in the Reverse Flash timeline and he thought she could be there too.

They are just using the whole "powers make you evil" with her so they can throw in an nonsensical character arc for her for the season and so they have an excuse not to bring her in to solve the problem of the week. This episode is actually a good example, since Catlin could've easily frozen the guy solid and stopped him at basically any point in the episode if she didn't have this "powers make you evil" thing going on.

"We have to be completely honest with each other!" Joe? You people are NEVER honest with each other especially when it would avoid and/or solve problems for you to be honest with each other and one of you has said the same crap about honesty what, two or 3 times a season? Don't kid yourself detective.

Edited February 8, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Aeryn13]

I enjoy Caitlin and Julian but the sense of foreboding and dread is hard to tune out. It`s like someone is painting a gigantic target on Julian AS I`m watching their scenes. Like literally there being a crew person with a brush and some paint.

Happy that the cat is out of the bag via Iris. I had wondered how Joe still didn`t know since everyone seemed to discuss it pretty openly in past episodes. And what did Joe think the mystery board with all the headlines was for?

I can tolerate Kid!Flash and I have nothing against Wally but two speedsters just feel overcrowded. The show is just in its third Season, a bit too early to relegate Barry to mentor role. Speaking of, I laughed so hard when Barry got a bit nostalgic over Reverse Flash and Zoom basically being such great teachers. Hahahaha. He is not even wrong about it. Evil!Wells was so good a teacher, Barry even once travelled back in time to learn some more from him. Maybe that is the recipe for faster learning progress: evil teachers.

Barry phasing the whole train was awesome, though. "Fastest man alive" is still pushing it but that was genuinely cool.

Next time: gorillas and a good Wells. Hooray. 

[ruby24]

I think if Julian dies it could trigger Caitlin's turn to KF permanently. Well, probably not permanently, but I could see her becoming a villain for all of Season 4 at least. I bet they don't end up changing that part of it, she'll probably be on the loose as a cliffhanger in the finale.

It's just that we know Tom Felton won't stick around longer than a season, so something bad's gotta happen with him.

[Proteus]

How do we know Felton isn't sticking around?

[ruby24]

I was just assuming he's probably not a permanent addition, since he's got a career in movies and everything.

Edited February 8, 2017 by ruby24

[Trini]

9 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Also, between Barry/Iris' schmoopy in love and Barry's absolute insistence they will save her, I almost feel like they're setting it up for Barry to actually FAIL to save Iris.

They're setting up something. I think he will save Iris somehow, but I also think that they are going to have a rough time around the end of the season (no spoilers, just my speculation) -- so I'm going to enjoy all the Bary & Iris adorableness while it's here.  :)
 

6 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

They are just using the whole "powers make you evil" with her so they can throw in an nonsensical character arc for her for the season and so they have an excuse not to bring her in to solve the problem of the week.

That, and I also think the showrunners (or maybe it's just one certain showrunner? I don't know) just really wanted to do Killer Frost, and Killer Frost = evil with powers. So therefore, Caitlin has to be evil with powers. Except she's not really evil, so they put this other personality on her. Ugh. It makes NO sense. But they already did evil Killer Frost on Earth-2 -- which they shouldn't have killed off if they liked her so much -- I don't know why they didn't try something a little different or nuanced with series regular Caitlin. They could have shown her going gradually over to the 'dark side', be a gray character, but her switching from good to evil within seconds is STUPID.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

I think that Barry is going to end up sacrificing himself for Iris and will spend the hiatus lost in the speedforce. Wally will take over the mantle while he's gone, and then they get him back in the Season 4 premiere, obviously.

Although I'd prefer a happy ending finale this time, rather than another cliffhanger. I think both season finale cliffhangers have led to not totally successful premieres that have to figure out how to address the finale issue before getting back into the regular season. The season 2 premiere was all over in the place with forced flashbacks to address the singularity, along with Ronnie's death, and Henry getting released from prison and then immediately sent away. Then the Flashpoint premiere did Flashpoint in a way that didn't seem to satisfy people who were fans of the actual FP comics story, but also was frustrating for show fans who didn't like the way it permanently changed stuff from before.

So, yeah. Not too sure about these cliffhanger season finales. Might be better to go with a happy ending this time, but I doubt it happens.

Edited February 9, 2017 by ruby24

[Argenta]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Maybe that is the recipe for faster learning progress: evil teachers.

I reckon you're onto something there! 

[Terrafamilia]

If Alchemy was giving powers to people who had had powers in the Flashpoint timeline and in the Flashpoint timeline the Untouchable guy had been captured by regular police, why was he so hard to catch in this one? Did he only get powers after he had become a convict over in Flashpoint? The bullets disintegrated when they touched his clothes, not him. Which brings up all sorts of questions.

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think if Julian dies it could trigger Caitlin's turn to KF permanently. Well, probably not permanently, but I could see her becoming a villain for all of Season 4 at least. I bet they don't end up changing that part of it, she'll probably be on the loose as a cliffhanger in the finale.

It's just that we know Tom Felton won't stick around longer than a season, so something bad's gotta happen with him.

Oh I hadn't thought of that.  I guess now they have Julian as the one who can talk Caitlin down - so without him she goes full on evil?  I could see that actually.  

Still think the "my powers make me evil" plot point is stupid though.

[catrice2]

I realized in this episode that they are slowly growing up the show....well except for Cisco. I was truly annoyed with his little comments in the Gypsy episode.  I'm fine as hell, Girl, this, etc. 

But I am not getting the high school students on a date vibe with Barry and Iris as much.  It is almost like they are ....gasp....grown ups!! 

Wally continues to annoy, Joe's girlfriend's daughter was also annoying.  

So, why put up a door that can be disintegrated?

[yourmomiseasy]

16 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think that Barry is going to end up sacrificing himself for Iris and will spend the hiatus lost in the speedforce. Wally will take over the mantle while he's gone, and then they get him back in the Season 4 premiere, obviously.

 

So like Buffy the Vampire Slayer but without a sexbot stand-in and with the speed force instead of heaven.  

 

I thought it was a pretty stupid plan to send Joe after the PI.  It was like let's put the 2 people the bad guy is after in the same exact location to make it easier for him to kill them.  I could see doing it as bait if they had a plan figured out, but they didn't.

[zannej]

Count me in on the not liking the BS about Caitlin's powers making her evil. Now, if using her powers only affected her physically in a bad way (like Griffin Gray last season), I could see her wanting to get rid of them and/or not use them. The hair turning white, etc.

I thought that Jesse L. Martin did a good job with what they gave him in terms of Joe's emotions-- but considering some of the things he kept from Iris, it really seems completely hypocritical of him to be angry that they didn't tell him. And you would think that as upset as he was, he would have the urge to give her a hug or hold her close to him because there's a chance he could lose her.

I was sad that they decided to kill off Julio Mendez. But there's always the multi-verse so maybe he can show up again. Perhaps he could be a friend of Jay Garrick's.

Sending Joe to retrieve the PI was pretty dumb, I agree. It just gave the bad guy two targets in close proximity.

I found it funny when Joe was put on the spot and asked which speedster he liked better: Flash or Kid Flash and he was trying to find a way to not offend either of them. LOL. But telling Cecile's daughter that Joe knew Kid Flash was not a bright move. I mean, didn't some of the cops notice that Wally got put in a cocoon and at least some cops are aware that people put in the cocoons got powers-- and Kid Flash has the same hairstyle as Wally...

I did like that Barry appreciates that he had a good teacher in the form of Eobard (although he *still* calls him "Wells" which kinda bugs me). Maybe he has fond memories and thoughts he wants to compartmentalize and not associate that person with the one who killed his mother.

The phasing the entire train thing was pretty awesome. I think Eobard would have been pretty proud of that.

There were a few editing things that bugged me in regards to Iris's arm. One moment it had the black stuff all the way up to her shoulder and then the next there was no black stuff. And one moment it was iced over and the next it wasn't.

I adore Tom Cavanagh, but I am still not crazy about HR. I'll be happy to see Harry again.

I hope they don't try to have Julian and Caitlin date. I hope it just stays as friends. It would be nice for them to have stories for female characters that don't involve them trying to pair them up with someone.

[tennisgurl]

I'm with everyone else on the "why do Caitlyn's powers make her evil?" question train. Sure, a lot of meta`s they meet are evil (I honestly wish they would meet a few more normal meta`s sometimes), but those are criminals, so it would make sense that they would meet them. There are tons of non evil meta`s around, why does she turn evil? Just let her have her powers and stay a hero? It makes no sense. I did really like the Julian and Caitlyn scenes, and I enjoy their relationship, but holy crap does it make me worry. I have grown to really like Julian, I don't want him to die/turn evil!

I did really like this episode a lot though. I could really feel the West family love, and I enjoyed seeing Cecille and her daughter arguing about the two Flashes, and Joe desperately trying not to play favorites. Poor Joe. Having two kids who are super heroes and having two kids dating each other (its still funny to me, I'm sorry!) is going to give him a heart attack. Maybe time for a vacation, after they've saved Iris from her future death? I felt bad for him finding out about Iris and that everyone was lying to him, but...sucks doesn't it Joe? Keeping secrets is BAD everyone! Put a sign up in the lab or something!

Barry and Iris are just so cute together. I am glad she admitted how scared she was of dying. Its a very real, human reaction, and I'm glad they're focusing on Iris in all of this, and not just on all the men in her life trying to save her. I mean, the men in her life ARE all trying to save her, but she does have some agency in all this.

Glad to see Wally got a little bit of humbling. I like Wally a lot, but he was getting just a little too cocky. I don't mind him being the flashier (heh) Flash, as he's younger, he deliberately got his powers, and he seems to really relish in the attention. Normally this would annoy me, but I really feel like he's a good kid who does want to help people. He just has a different personality than Barry, and is younger and less experienced. Speaking of, I'm really enjoying Older and Wiser mentor Barry. Its allowing him to grow in a natural way, and show has he's grown since he started as The Flash. This was a really good Barry episode actually. He gets to deliver the pep talk instead of getting it, he handled the crisis of the week calmly, showed how powerful he's become (the phase through the train! Awesome!), and was in his adorable relationship with Iris. Way to go Barry.

Next week, Harry and Jessie! Score! I've gotten used to HR, but I still prefer Harry.

[immortalfrieza]

3 hours ago, zannej said:

Count me in on the not liking the BS about Caitlin's powers making her evil. Now, if using her powers only affected her physically in a bad way (like Griffin Gray last season), I could see her wanting to get rid of them and/or not use them. The hair turning white, etc.

 

The worst part is the comics version of Killer Frost already has physical costs that go along with having her powers that would have made this arc make much more sense. The comics Killer Frost is a heat vampire needs to absorb the heat from people or she'll die, and even if she refuses for as long as she can she's constantly hungry for heat from people. This show's writers could have simply had Catlin have the same problems at least at first and have her struggle to resist the hunger that drives her to kill others, ultimately culminating in a choice between killing herself or continuing to kill people to survive before the team solved it (because obviously the team would solve it at some point). Instead we have this character arc that makes zero sense going completely against everything established about Metas and how their powers come from their personality and situation, that accomplishes nothing but create false drama.

Quote

 I mean, didn't some of the cops notice that Wally got put in a cocoon and at least some cops are aware that people put in the cocoons got powers-- and Kid Flash has the same hairstyle as Wally...

If I recall correctly nobody but Team Flash knows that Wally was put in that cocoon, all the cops besides Joe were killed in that raid, even if not that's assuming any of the cops would go around telling people "WALLY WEST IS KID FLASH!!!" instead of keeping it to themselves. As for the hairstyle, it's a buzz cut is one of the most common hairstyles in existence, half the black kids Wally's age in Central City probably have it. Wally is more than generic enough in appearance that anybody actually guessing Kid Flash and he are the same person just from their similar appearance would be far far more unbelievable than no one recognizing him. I mean come on, it's not like there isn't plenty of superheroes who get by unrecognized despite wearing nothing more than a Domino mask while being a superhero, or even no mask at all (any Kryptonian ever for instance) and it comes down to the simple fact that they aren't unique enough in appearance for that to be enough to identify them.

Quote

I did like that Barry appreciates that he had a good teacher in the form of Eobard (although he *still* calls him "Wells" which kinda bugs me).

Team Flash has always referred to Eobard Tharwne as Harrison Wells and always will unless Reverse Flash comes back and starts harrassing the whole team again and why wouldn't they? Team Flash knew Tharwne as Wells for 99.9% of the time they knew him, and there's no reason they wouldn't keep using Wells as shorthand for "Eobard Tharwne, the guy from the future who killed the real Harrison Wells and then duping the whole world into believing he was the real Wells for 15 years, who was then erased from existence despite it not undoing everything he did... and it gets even more complicated from there." Everybody has known Tharwne as Wells for 15 years and even mentored by him directly for much of that timespan, so Wells is what they call him.

Edited February 9, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[RobertDeSneero]

10 hours ago, zannej said:

I thought that Jesse L. Martin did a good job with what they gave him in terms of Joe's emotions-- but considering some of the things he kept from Iris, it really seems completely hypocritical of him to be angry that they didn't tell him. And you would think that as upset as he was, he would have the urge to give her a hug or hold her close to him because there's a chance he could lose her.

It would be reasonable to think he was clinging to anger so he didn't have to immediately deal with the emotions that would be brought up thinking that his daughter may only have a few months to live.  He kept things from Iris to protect her.  Not telling him about this prevent him from trying to fulfill his role, his duty in life, as her protector.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If this week's villain disintegrated everything he touched, how was he able to wear clothes or open doors or sit on chairs or walk on the ground? Because it wasn't just whatever his hand touched. The bullets that Joe fired at him disintegrated once they touched his body.

I like Tom Cavanagh but I am not crazy about HR. The best thing about him is when he drops random things about his earth into conversation like Vice President Al Capone and the fact that Abraham Lincoln is on the $100 bill.

Last week, Iris was a bit arrogant going to the warehouse because she knew she was supposed to die in May, so it was nice that this week she realized she could die sooner. It really bothered me last week that they were going on and on about changing the future to avoid Iris being killed without taking into consideration that changing the future could mean Iris (or someone else on the team) dying BEFORE that date. I'm not saying that I want any of them to die, but that the future is always in motion and the butterfly principle applies to everything, not just the one thing that they are trying to change.

On 2/7/2017 at 9:40 PM, blugirlami21 said:

You know, I don't really mind Wally being a braggart. It's a way to differentiate himself from the older, more mature Barry and it fits in with his personality. I think the fact that underneath all that bravado the fact that Wally is a good kid, is a big help. His upset at not being fast enough to save Iris was very well done.

Even though Wally's bragging annoys me, I agree that it's totally in line and understandable. One huge difference is that when Barry discovered his powers and began training, he didn't really know what to expect because it was all unknown. He was exploring his powers as well as his responsibilities and his limits so it was a bit like groping around in the dark. Wally, on the the other hand, has seen what Barry is capable of, both speedwise and as a hero so he has expectations about what he is supposed to do and how he will be perceived by the public. On top of that he's a teenager which makes it even more realistic that he would behave this way. He's in his first year of college so he's beginning to look at Kid Flash as his identity and calling, whereas Barry was already settled into a career that he loved when he became the Flash.

I didn't understand why Barry was having Wally try to run through a wall to learn how to phase. Why not have him start out with just phasing his hand? At least Barry has finally admitted that he hasn't been the greatest teacher/mentor. Hopefully now that he's aware of it, he will make more of an effort. It wasn't so long ago that he was learning all of these things so you'd think he would be a lot more understanding about training Wally and being supportive/considerate.

[Katera]

Is PTV no longer recapping this show? I've been waiting for the recap of this episode, but no love so far.

[Trini]

It's weird -- Supergirl didn't get a recap this week either.

[mac123x]

"Hey, Iris, we all know you're going to die soon, and we know the exact date.  So, yeah, Cicso can open portals to other worlds, we're gonna send you to this really nice other Earth where there's this gal named Kara Danvers.  Remember her from that cross over?  Yeah, so you're gonna hang out with her until after you're death date.  Sound good?"

[legaleagle53]

47 minutes ago, mac123x said:

"Hey, Iris, we all know you're going to die soon, and we know the exact date.  So, yeah, Cicso can open portals to other worlds, we're gonna send you to this really nice other Earth where there's this gal named Kara Danvers.  Remember her from that cross over?  Yeah, so you're gonna hang out with her until after you're death date.  Sound good?"

What makes you think that Savitar can't transport between worlds as easily as Barry can?  If he knows about Flashpoint, he certainly knows about Earth-38, and Kara might not be a match for him.

[johntfs]

On 2/8/2017 at 1:35 AM, Trini said:

With the Cisco-focused episode last week, and Caitlin struggling with her powers this week (the whole separate Killer Frost personality thing is still ridiculous), I'm disappointed that there haven't been any Cisco/Caitlin heart-to-hearts. The show is ignoring the fact that they are supposed to be close friends in favor of Cisco/HR and Caitlin/Julian. ...

...So I guess they are going there with Caitlin and Julian? Good luck, mate.

Hope she doesn't lose the snowflake when they go all the way.  That'd be a nasty place to get frostbite.  Oh check it out.  Frostbite.  That's a perfectly legitimate super name without the connotations of "Killer Frost."  Maybe all Caitlin needs is a new nickname.

Really I wish they'd give some kind of explanation for the "Killer Frost" business.  No one else who has gotten powers has suffered radical personality changes.  Even Julian as Alchemy was being controlled by Savitar.  You'd hope that Julian would get on that as the meta-human expert.  Surely he's noticed by now that it's only Caitlin who is affected by her powers in that way (radical personality change).  Even Magenta, who was similar, already had a split personality before she got powers.

[ruby24]

Maybe they could explain it like how alcohol can make some people abusive and violent, but not others. Or it could be that Caitlin really is filled with so much resentment deep down that these powers bring it all to the surface.