S03.E11: Dead or Alive

[Trini]

Quote

DC COMICS' GYPSY ARRIVES ON EARTH-1

- H.R.'s past catches up with him when a bounty hunter with vibe powers named Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) arrives in Central City to bring him back to Earth-19 to stand trial for his crime. It turns out inter-dimensional travel is illegal on their Earth. H.R. surrenders but when Barry and Cisco find out that H.R.'s only hope would be to challenge Gypsy to a fight to the death, they intercede and Cisco offers to fight Gypsy instead.

Harry Jierjian directed the episode with story by Benjamin Raab and Deric A. Hughes and teleplay by Zack Stentz

[Trini]

Promo:

So Cisco clearly has a type... :)

[Jediknight]

We got Earth 3 and Miss Tessmacher, awesome.

Way to go Cisco, you saved Harry and the girl liked you.  I liked Caitlin pointing out that Cisco seems to have a type.

[Primal Slayer]

Overall it was an ok episode. Fairly good for Cisco and Iris.

It was so nice that Iris got somewhat of a storyline for once. They could do so much with her being a reporter and investigating but they just refuse to do so for some reason.

Gypsy was great, loved her, her fight with Cisco was fun but I seriously rolled my eyes when Cisco got one good hit in her and "battle over, I give up". If they fight to the death, if he didnt kill you, you kill him. I would have much rather her beat Cisco and decide to let him live and have him keep HR then her getting "beat"

I want to fall in love with Wally but I cant with them having the citizens of Central City go over the top with their fangirling of him as if The Flash hasnt been around for 3 years now.

[RedVitC]

Quick thoughts for now: Wow, I loved this episode. Really funny. And so happy we got to see more of Iris' reaction to the news. That scene where she broke down was excellent! (And there were lots of cute Barry and Iris scenes, too)

[bettername2come]

I liked it. Gypsy's likable and makes Cisco look tall. I accept her as a love interest, at least until I get my unlikely Caitlin/Cisco or Cisco/Thea hookup.

I liked the Iris/Wally storyline. It was exactly what I've wanted for their relationship.

Westallen still cute. Joe freaking out at the possibility of Westallen babies was hilarious.

I'm liking Julian more and more. Danielle has better chemistry with him than Teddy Sears, since we're probably going to have to deal with a romantic storyline eventually.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh welcome back the Cisco Ramon I know and ❤️!!!!! You have been so missed by yours truly!

Oh, hello Sophie from Sleepy Hollow!!

Sophie Gypsy can come back.

Wally can just STFU about lecturing Iris when it comes to not doing her job because it's dangerous. It wasn't that long ago he resented her for treating him and telling him the same. Yeah yeah he has powers and she doesn't, but she's smart and can take care of herself as she's proven in the past.

I thought we were done with Joe's paternalistic attitude toward Iris? Though I did laugh at Iris's horrible lying that made Joe think she was trying to tell him she was pregnant!???And Joe wiping his forehead with his handkerchief in relief that she wasn't. Though I wish he had asked her if that's what she was trying to tell him!!

I enjoyed the scenes between Cisco and Barry, and Iris and Barry.

Wally with his basking in glory and attention is very similar to what Jimmy is doing over on Supergirl except Jimmy don't have no powers.

And how was it that Gypsy could stop and defeat both Wally and Barry, considering they're both speedsters and she...isn't?

[mtlchick]

I don't know, but the ending where HR is recording before Cisco comes in makes me believe he's the one that will betray them all.  He took the risk leaving Earth 19 even though it was punishable by death and may have hoped that the day would come that Barry et al would try to save him.  

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And how was it that Gypsy could stop and defeat both Wally and Barry, considering they're both speedsters and she...isn't?

They were cocky and she has probably dealt with Speedsters before, she was able to anticipate their moves (or lack thereof).

I was kind of hoping they would reveal to the audience at the end that Gypsy was Ciscos female dopple lol.

[Lantern7]

Looks like Iris has possession of the idiot ball. Not blaming her entirely, but she's as big a butthead as her brother. And he sets the bar so high.

Disappointed that Gypsy is basically Vibette. Doesn't the canon character have camouflage powers? She seemed cool, though. Cisco needs to go online for love. Lisa Snart, Kendra Saunders, and Gypsy? Poor guy. What about Caitlin? Oh, right . . . she likes her men more manly, and she's a tiny bit black widow.

Cheerleader reaction to Kid Flash is funny. How much older is Barry? Five years? Six?

Huckster is still a putz. With Julian on the team, his role is more expendable. I'd still take Hary over him . . . but not Reverse Wells. Progress??

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Lantern7 said:

Disappointed that Gypsy is basically Vibette. Doesn't the canon character have camouflage powers? She seemed cool, though. Cisco needs to go online for love. Lisa Snart, Kendra Saunders, and Gypsy? Poor guy. What about Caitlin? Oh, right . . . she likes her men more manly, and she's a tiny bit black widow.

Yeah she does. I don't mind giving her an upgrade in powers but I was hoping they would keep that part of her powers in tact.

[bmoore4026]

Loved Gypsy!  Gypsy girl, you've got it made!  So much better than the comic Gypsy who dressed like she was Lucy Ricardo in that operetta episode and was 14 years old.

Speaking of the shitty Justice League of '84-'86, the show made Vibe's powers, suit, and glasses cool.  Bravo, show!

Anyone else think for a second that Gypsy was Cisco's alternate Earth counterpart?

Would love to know more about Earth 19.  What kind of shithole is it?

Still wish that got rid of Earth 19 Harrison Wells and brought in a new one.  Maybe a pirate one, from that Earth were Batman is a pirate in the 1700s fighting evil Joker pirate.

Iris and Wally are totally going to get Joe fired, aren't they?

[Cthulhudrew]

Changing Flashes does not fool me into believing the  "in order to beat the Big Bad, Flash must get faster!" plot is somehow a new concept.

6 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Anyone else think for a second that Gypsy was Cisco's alternate Earth counterpart?

I did, actually. I thought Wells was going to confirm that. And then maybe say she was an Ex. Which would have been all kinds of hilariously awkward.

[Jillibean]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I liked it. Gypsy's likable and makes Cisco look tall. I accept her as a love interest, at least until I get my unlikely Caitlin/Cisco or Cisco/Thea hookup.

I realize the writers seem to have no (current?) intention of going there, but Caitlin/Cisco would make complete sense to me. When you've been hurt and traumatized to the extent that Caitlin has, what would make more sense than to fall for your reliable, trustworthy best friend who has stuck with you through everything? I would totally board this train.

Poor Iris. At least this storyline is giving Candice Patton some material to work with.

I understand that Julian has to be useful, but...do we really need him around to do a math equation? Are we meant to believe Cisco or Caitlin couldn't have done that in their sleep?

HR definitely seems sketchy, but "sketchy" seems to be one of Tom Cavanagh's favorite things to play, so it's hard to tell at this point whether it's a red herring. His reasons for coming to earth one definitely seem like they aren't the whole truth.

[benteen]

Fun episode.  I liked Gypsy and enjoyed the fight between her and Cisco.  Liked the random Catco cameo.  I've been enjoying Julian's addition to the team and his noting that Gypsy must have really had an off day was great.

[quarks]

Brief things:

1. Really, Berlanti, it was bad enough to use the same park bench setting where Alex had her little talking it out with Kara for the Gypsy/Vibe final battle scene, but then, you had to double down on your already massive set problems by going out of your way to take characters to a Supergirl set?  I like the crossovers, but seriously, what were the odds of Cisco and Gypsy just happening to end up at Catco?

(Let's not even talk about how Legends of Tomorrow followed this up literally minutes later by coming up with a contrived plot reason for heading to a Flash set. Arrowverse, you are killing me here.  Is Team Arrow going to search for their Canary tomorrow night through the rest of the sets?)

And where was Jimmy Olson and has anyone at Catco noticed yet that Olson spends more time in a mask than in his office? And why I am asking that question during The Flash?

2. Iris: Well, it's partly about trying to help people through journalism, but it's more that three years on this show, I really would LOVE to have more of an impact than love interest!

3. Julian: Speaking of wanting to have an impact on this show, here I am, doing....math equations. Which you'd think Cisco or even Barry could do, but apparently not.

4. Joe, this protective attitude towards Iris was annoying enough in the first season. She's a journalist; she needs to be thinking about her career.

[benteen]

Quote

And where was Jimmy Olson and has anyone at Catco noticed yet that Olson spends more time in a mask than in his office? And why I am asking that question during The Flash?

Jimmy would have ran over Miss Teschmacer to get into that fight because he's so obsessed with being a hero.

[Cthulhudrew]

I thought that Iris could have had a better story to distract her dad, considering that was her plan, but the exchange was pretty funny. Especially Joe's reaction to the prospect of Iris and Barry giving birth to a "Flash-pint."

[Latverian Diplomat]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And how was it that Gypsy could stop and defeat both Wally and Barry, considering they're both speedsters and she...isn't?

Speedsters are all but unbeatable if you treat their powers logically....so they don't. See also Legends where Reverse Flash has had multiple opportunities to just kill all the Legends if he really tried.

18 minutes ago, quarks said:

Really, Berlanti, it was bad enough to use the same park bench setting where Alex had her little talking it out with Kara for the Gypsy/Vibe final battle scene, but then, you had to double down on your already massive set problems by going out of your way to take characters to a Supergirl set?  I like the crossovers, but seriously, what were the odds of Cisco and Gypsy just happening to end up at Catco?

FWIW, Cisco was driving? Though I guess Kara's apartment would have been more likely, anywhere in National City is close to where he's been before.

So, it takes a meta-human specialist to realize that when someone jumps, both their feet leave the ground? That's not quite Eadweard Muybridge level science,  ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Gardner_at_a_Gallop ) but I guess it's a step up from "believe in yourself" and "follow your instincts". Still not sure why it made Gypsy so vulnerable, but I guess they needed something.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Latverian Diplomat

[Last Time Lord]

If trying to prevent Iris' death causes Joe's, I'm going to be really upset. I love Iris, and everything, but that is not a trade I'm willing to make.

[Lady Calypso]

I am totally impressed with what they gave Iris. Was it a perfect story? No. But it was all about her, which is a sad improvement. She is dealing with knowing that she dies in five months. It seems like she thinks that the future is set in stone, so she seems to be in the risk-taking stage right now, where she thinks that she's invincible because her future is already set. I do love that she explained to Barry that she wanted to leave a mark on the world. 

I really loved the Wally/Iris scenes. This is the relationship I've wanted to see. I also loved Iris' lying scene with Joe and how he thought that she was pregnant. Hilarious.  

Cecile looked annoyed that Iris interrupted her and Joe's scene. Did I read that wrong?

A great episode for Cisco as well. Barry got to be the cheerleader this time...well, for the most part. I also liked Cisco's reasoning for helping HR. It actually made sense and put things in perspective. I also really liked Gypsy. I think she's a fun character, a good antagonist, and someone who I will enjoy seeing again. Plus, it helped bring back fun Cisco! He was well on his way to returning, but this episode did help a lot.

The one thing I was a little disappointed about was Cisco only winning with one overtake. I wish it was a better fight. I know Gypsy had to lose or else they would have had to explain why HR was sticking around and why Cisco wasn't dead, but I still think of Gypsy as the better of the two.

Julian's snark is great. It's fun to see a new character join the team and get to comment on the dysfunction of them all. 

I've come to accept that these shows will use the same sets and locations to minimize the budget. 

[Trini]

More, mostly positive thoughts later, but now I'm just mad that they literally waited until the middle of the season to give Iris the B-plot. We could have been doing this the entire time, show!! (So I guess now I know which episodes I need to pay attention to next season: 4.01, 4.02, 4.09-4.23)

[TDT]

"I'm not going to be the one who saves Iris..you are."

Next week's episode may be a hint of what will happen in the season finale lol

[thuganomics85]

Cisco really does have a type, huh?  I guess I can't blame him and, to be fair, Gypsy isn't a villain, but more of a bondswoman/bounty hunter. She was pretty good and Jessica Camacho was great in the role and had some good chemistry with Carlos Valdes.  Still wouldn't be against a Lisa return though, because the whole Snart aspect just makes that relationship hilarious.  Still, I hope Gypsy makes a return somewhere down the line.  Overall, a good episode for Cisco.  Stood up for H.R. and improved upon his powers.  Nice!

Julian is proving himself to be an awesome edition to the team.  I love how he's pretty much the opposite of everyone else in most of the situations, but tends to be right nine times out of ten, even if he has the best worst personal skills of all time.  Love it!  I still fear that this is all going to either end with him being bad or getting taken out of the equation eventually, but I'll enjoy it while I can.  Tom Felton is awesome.

Iris finally gets a solid storyline.  She was reckless and short-sighted about going after the arms dealer, but I can see why knowing she is likely going to die would make her through caution to the wind, and try to accomplish what she can.  Although, I would think she would have thought of a better lie then the story she told Joe, which she was clearly making up on the spot.  Still amusing though when Joe she was going to say she was pregnant.

Kid Flash seems to be taking over as the new popular hero in Central City.  Barry doesn't seem to mind for now, but I do wonder what this means for Wally going forward.  Well, it does mean that Barry has now decided to change the future by having Wally be the one to train to go faster and hopefully save Iris.  I'm guessing it won't work, of course!

I see they found a way now to have H.R. stay here and never go back home.  Wouldn't be surprised though if something does happen, and the running gag of this series will be have a different version Harry/Wells/H.R. each season.

Fun episode!

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

FWIW, Cisco was driving? Though I guess Kara's apartment would have been more likely, anywhere in National City is close to where he's been before.

Right.  Cisco said, "you want to fight dirty, huh?" and took them someplace where there would be a chance his Kryptonian friend would be hanging around.  Nope, just poor Eve (and that might have been the longest line she's had since joining Supergirl).  (For those who don't watch that show, the young woman was Kara's replacement as Executive Assistant, Eve Teschmacher.)

I think Gypsy knew Cisco wouldn't kill her when they went to Mustafar and he didn't try to kick her over his head into the lava pit.  Or maybe I've seen too much pro wrestling over the years.  Regardless, I liked Gypsy (even though I would have liked to have seen her with her traditional invisibility/illusion-casting powers) and hope she visits again.  (Admittedly problematic, since if she did so she'd be inviting the death penalty on herself.)  Maybe the Earth-1 Gypsy has the other powers?

[Primetimer]

Cisco meets his match, possibly in more ways than one.

View the full article

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, Jillibean said:

I understand that Julian has to be useful, but...do we really need him around to do a math equation? Are we meant to believe Cisco or Caitlin couldn't have done that in their sleep?

Sure they could have.  However, they'd hem and haw and try to break things to poor little fragile Barry gently, while Julian will straight up tell people the real deal without the sugar-coating.

[SimoneS]

I enjoyed this episode because Iris finally got some focus. She is the one who will be killed in the near future. It was good to finally know what was going on in her head and see her try to make a mark on the world in time she has left, however long that turns out to be. The scene with Iris implying that she was pregnant or wanted to be to Joe was hilarious, well done by both actors. Candace Patton is a talented actress who is criminally underused on this show.  

Edited February 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[Unclejosh]

I thought Candace Patton is normally decent but she cannot cry realistically.  That scene took me right out of the show it was so bad.  Not sure whether she had an off day or the director sucked, but that scene was awful.

[AzureOwl]

Please tell me I was not the only one that yelled MISS TESCHMACHER!!!! in an appropriately pompous tone when they crashed on Earth-38.

Edited February 1, 2017 by AzureOwl

[CletusMusashi]

God damn it. We were so close to finally being rid of that fool.

[KirkB]

I kind of feel bad for Miss Teshmacher. Imagine explaining THAT to her boss.

[ohjoy]

When Julian was math-splaining why Barry would never be fast enough, I thought for sure the solution to the problem would be that Cisco would develop that portal space-hopping technique and just move Barry close enough to stop Savitar when the time came. But no, of course the answer isn't cleverness or ingenuity -- obviously the only correct answer is for somebody anybody to run faster. *facepalm*

That being said, I did enjoy this episode the most of any this season. And I don't even like H.R. (although I love Tom Cavanaugh, so whatever keeps him on the show, I guess).

[mrspidey]

1 hour ago, AzureOwl said:

Please tell me I was not the only one that yelled MISS TESCHMACHER!!!! in an appropriately pompous tone when they crashed on Earth-38.

You weren't.

I think Wally's increasing popularity as well as the fact that he is faster than Barry mean that he will be the one to die. Can't have him outshine Barry on Barry's show forever, after all. 

[tennisgurl]

Cisco really DOES have such a type doesn't he? Hot women who have tried to kill him. Weirdly specific, but they seem to like him back, so I guess its working out alright so far. Luckily most of them have had a heart of, maybe not gold, but maybe silver like Lisa Snart, or are morally ambiguous, Like Gypsy. Also, the return of the fun, sweet Cisco we all know and love! Finally my Cisco love can return in full!

I also really liked Gypsy, and I hope we have some reason to see her again (although I am still shipping Lisa/Cisco), she was an interesting character and I liked the vibe (heh) between her and Cisco. I guess HR is here to stay? I guess I can live with that, but HR is still my least favorite Harrison Wells. He has grown on me, but I miss Harry. I would be alright with multiple HRs popping up over and over.

Wally rescues hot cheerleaders! I like Wally, but he needs an ego check soon. He is spending a lot of time basking in the glory of being a superstar hero, which I fear could backfire on him. Granted, Barry has done the same thing, but I never got the feeling that it was why he started being The Flash. He was charming and liked having a good relationship with the public and the police, but I never really remembered him taking selfies with people he's saved or anything. I'm not really upset about it, because he does have good intentions, and he is still a teenaged boy, but its probably going to lead to trouble.

Poor Joe. Kind of awkward when your kids start dating and possibly talking about having kids. I kid, I know they aren't actually related, and I love WestAllen, it just makes me feel a little weird sometimes that Joe refers to both of them as his kids. I did love all the Iris/Barry stuff here, they really are adorable together. And Gus and Candace just sparkle together, they have great chemistry, and look ridiculously good together.

I like the edition of Julian to Team Flash. He knows what he's talking about, but mostly, I like his brutal honesty that he adds to the team. Everyone else is so nice now that they've dealt with their flashpoint issues, they need someone who will add some snark and honesty to the mix, while still having good intentions and is trying to be a nicer person. Although, I am very concerned about his possible relationship with Caitlyn. Run Julian, she's a black widow!

[PhoneCop]

You know, if you'd told me thirty years ago that all the rookie members of JLA Detroit would eventually make the transition to live action, I'd've laughed for days. I mean, sure, technically Cisco ≠ Paco and Nate ≠ Hank, but still. That said, I'd be in for another Gypsy appearance, especially if it's a Halloween episode and they can have her rocking the original Cyndi Lauper-inspired thrift store look.

Was Tom Felton always credited as "Special Appearance by" or just these last two episodes?

[Trini]

13 minutes ago, PhoneCop said:

Was Tom Felton always credited as "Special Appearance by" or just these last two episodes?

I think it's been always; but I can't double check right now.

[AD35]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

I kind of feel bad for Miss Teshmacher. Imagine explaining THAT to her boss.

If her boss is James Olsen, then he wouldn't even be around to notice anything out of the ordinary at the office.

[PhoneCop]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

I think it's been always; but I can't double check right now.

You know, if we can keep Draco, save Iris, give HR the Spinal Tap drummer treatment, and spin the Wells roulette wheel again, I will pretend I never said anything bad about this season, ever.

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, PhoneCop said:

You know, if you'd told me thirty years ago that all the rookie members of JLA Detroit would eventually make the transition to live action, I'd've laughed for days. I mean, sure, technically Cisco ≠ Paco and Nate ≠ Hank, but still. That said, I'd be in for another Gypsy appearance, especially if it's a Halloween episode and they can have her rocking the original Cyndi Lauper-inspired thrift store look.

I've been thinking the same thing, and while I doubt we'll ever see the Berlantiverse bring us Metamorpho, let's just be glad that Cisco doesn't have the ridiculous "accent" the original Vibe had.

4 hours ago, AD35 said:

If her boss is James Olsen, then he wouldn't even be around to notice anything out of the ordinary at the office.

He should have been her boss, but I think she's been doing work for Snapper Carr, since James doesn't seem to do anything and Snapper is much better at yelling "MISS TESCHMACHER!!!"

[BkWurm1]

On 1/31/2017 at 10:06 PM, quarks said:

Brief things:

1. Really, Berlanti, it was bad enough to use the same park bench setting where Alex had her little talking it out with Kara for the Gypsy/Vibe final battle scene, but then, you had to double down on your already massive set problems by going out of your way to take characters to a Supergirl set?  I like the crossovers, but seriously, what were the odds of Cisco and Gypsy just happening to end up at Catco?

(Let's not even talk about how Legends of Tomorrow followed this up literally minutes later by coming up with a contrived plot reason for heading to a Flash set. Arrowverse, you are killing me here.  Is Team Arrow going to search for their Canary tomorrow night through the rest of the sets?)

And where was Jimmy Olson and has anyone at Catco noticed yet that Olson spends more time in a mask than in his office? And why I am asking that question during The Flash?

2. Iris: Well, it's partly about trying to help people through journalism, but it's more that three years on this show, I really would LOVE to have more of an impact than love interest!

3. Julian: Speaking of wanting to have an impact on this show, here I am, doing....math equations. Which you'd think Cisco or even Barry could do, but apparently not.

4. Joe, this protective attitude towards Iris was annoying enough in the first season. She's a journalist; she needs to be thinking about her career.

 

Lol.  Actually... ***VERY mild Arrow spoiler ahead****

 

Spoiler

Oliver as the Green Arrow called to ask the Captain about a former CCPD cop, but Singh didn't believe he really was talking to the Green Arrow so Oliver texted Barry and the Flash blurred in and left a post-it on Singh's computer screen that said "He's legit"  MG called it the fasted crossover ever.

 

 

The episode was fine.  Gypsy so should have not just shrugged and conceded but how else was Cisco supposed to win?  The propping of VIbe is hilarious (in contrast to how Caitlin of course MUST go evil).  

But the thing I really came here to rant about was Cisco once again getting misty over the supposed original Wells that had been like a father to him and was always there for him.  Except for the part where Cisco NEVER met  Wells, he only knew Thane hiding out as Wells.  And that guy tried to kill him. (Actually did kill him) And was a evil bad guy

Spoiler

[who is currently on LoT looking for the Spear of Destiny and having a fun time with a couple other vanquished Big Bads looking for a way to change, you guessed it, destiny.  Well, he's looking for it when he isn't running from a zombie speedster trying to kill his time remnant which apparently didn't vanish (even thought we saw him vanish) when Eddie died because he was protected by the speedforce.]  (I don't know how they do it but LoT manages to make all the old villians actually menacing AND amusing.  And the show is not nearly as dark as The Flash - stick around on Tuesdays - it's a lot of fun this year)  But I digress.

 Why is Cisco waxing rhapsodic about the season one Bad Guy?  And it was specifically Wells, not Harry he kept going on about.  Have they forgotten that Cisco would have been like 4 when Eobard killed Wells?  Or did none of that happen?  I mean technically, this sesason we saw the Reverse Flash NOT get stuck back in time when Barry's mom was killed, but if that means Wells was good, then where did the original Wells go?  Why is he still a criminal so wanted that H.R. has to wear a fake face?  

Gah!  Now I'm confused!

Edited February 3, 2017 by BkWurm1
H.G. Wells is not the same as H.R. Wells

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

Lol.  Actually... ***VERY mild Arrow spoiler ahead****

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Oliver as the Green Arrow called to ask the Captain about a former CCPD cop, but Singh didn't believe he really was talking to the Green Arrow so Oliver texted Barry and the Flash blurred in and left a post-it on Singh's computer screen that said "He's legit"  MG called it the fasted crossover ever.

 

 

The episode was fine.  Gypsy so should have not just shrugged and conceded but how else was Cisco supposed to win?  The propping of VIbe is hilarious (in contrast to how Caitlin of course MUST go evil).  

But the thing I really came here to rant about was Cisco once again getting misty over the supposed original Wells that had been like a father to him and was always there for him.  Except for the part where Cisco NEVER met  Wells, he only knew Thane hiding out as Wells.  And that guy tried to kill him. (Actually did kill him) And was a evil bad guy

  Hide contents

[who is currently on LoT looking for the Spear of Destiny and having a fun time with a couple other vanquished Big Bads looking for a way to change, you guessed it, destiny.  Well, he's looking for it when he isn't running from a zombie speedster trying to kill his time remnant which apparently didn't vanish (even thought we saw him vanish) when Eddie died because he was protected by the speedforce.]  (I don't know how they do it but LoT manages to make all the old villians actually menacing AND amusing.  And the show is not nearly as dark as The Flash - stick around on Tuesdays - it's a lot of fun this year)  But I digress.

 Why is Cisco waxing rhapsodic about the season one Bad Guy?  And it was specifically Wells, not Harry he kept going on about.  Have they forgotten that Cisco would have been like 4 when Eobard killed Wells?  Or did none of that happen?  I mean technically, this sesason we saw the Reverse Flash NOT get stuck back in time when Barry's mom was killed, but if that means Wells was good, then where did the original Wells go?  Why is he still a criminal so wanted that H.G. has to wear a fake face?  

Gah!  Now I'm confused!

I'll say.  You've got H.R. Wells mixed up with H.G. Wells.   ;-)

[Chicago Redshirt]

Before Reverse-Flash revealed himself, he was a big mentor to Cisco. I think that he was even genuine when he was saying Cisco was like a son to him. So I am OK with the shortcut of calling Thawne "Wells."

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

I'll say.  You've got H.R. Wells mixed up with H.G. Wells.   ;-)

Oops!  I'll fix that.  

[KirkB]

Yeah, it bugs me how Barry and Cisco go on about Harrison Wells when they have never met the man. They spent a year with Eobard Thawne in disguise. Harrison Wells has been dead since they were kids.

[Mellowyellow]

Good solid episode that was also a lot of fun! Hope they bring Gypsy back!!!! It was so nice to see the old happy Cisco again!

Really liking them letting Wally embrace being a superhero. Wally was meh to me at first but he's got so much more personality now!

hehe the Iris and Joe conversation was hilarious. Loved it! Highlight of the ep for me! I know some people bang on about how Barry and Iris are like siblings but I actually love the fact that they are both Joe's kids. They aren't related and it makes the dynamic really cute and a bit different!

LOVED the Wally and Iris sibling moments. Made me go awwwww.

Is there any chance they'd keep Julian permanently? Cuz he's hilarious!

I really enjoy this show for it's little funny moments like Gypsy loading up on coffee bags.

No complaints whatsoever this week except for the awful recap at the beginning which shows the Iris stabbing scene, AGAIN!!!! I'm going to be prepared for it next week!

[Trini]

Despite the looming threat of Iris’ death, this was one of the most fun episodes in a while! Also one of the very few (only?) episodes where Barry’s story isn’t really the focus of the A-plot.

This one was actually great for Barry being supportive of others. Namely, Iris, Cisco and Wally.

If Wally really is going to be faster than Barry, they’re going to have to change that opening monologue; since they admitted Barry isn’t fast enough to save Iris — at least if the plan is only to run faster between two points.

The CCPN and the Jitters sets! They’re still around! Why haven’t we seen them since the beginning of the season?? We could have been seeing Iris at work this whole time!

This show has a dearth of female characters, and especially female superheroes, so I’m all for Gypsy sticking around. A love interest for Cisco is a bonus. Can we at least make her recurring? And she has to come back to teach Cisco that speedster stopping trick, right?

On the other hand, STAR Labs is getting crowded. Although I’m glad they’re using Felton more, I like Julian, and he had some funny lines, he really doesn’t need to be in STAR Labs. Everyone is at STAR Labs. And Caitlin didn’t have anything to do. TPTB need to do some thinning next season.

I still find HR annoying and useless, but he was a lot more fleshed out here, and hid fantasy sequence at the start was funny. Looks like they are setting him up to do something big later, though. Ugh - now we can’t send him back to his earth, but I don’t think he’s staying here forever, so… maybe he’s the one to die? Or he goes to another earth by the end of the season?

Poor Joe! Iris was really trying to give him a heart attack, but that whole scene with them was funny and Candice and Jesse played it perfectly. Glad to see that Joe and Cecile are sill a thing.

Nitpicks:
I wonder why they could’t  just say “legos” when the diorama was clearly legos. I mean, WB/DC’s Lego Batman movie is coming out next week, so they should have permission, right?

If Cisco had 24 hours to prep, then the battle should have been taking place in daylight.

to be continued...

[ruby24]

Even though he's a pretty good addition to the team, obviously Tom Felton won't stick around past this season, so I can't figure out what they're planning to do with Julian.

I mean, I guess it's glaringly obvious that he could be the one to die (and they have gone ahead with the glaringly obvious before, in each of the last seasons), but will it just be a sacrificial death like Eddie in Season 1? They won't even do anything with the whole Dr. Alchemy thing they started with him? It seems weird that an actual villain from the comics like that would be treated so sloppily.

As for HR, he could also be the one to go, since they're never short of another Wells, but maybe this Wells is the one they want to stick around permanently? They set it all up for that to be the case. I wouldn't mind if it was. I don't dislike HR. But someone has to be the betrayer, so I guess it could be him as well.

[Mellowyellow]

They can still send HR off I think. He can go to another Earth and write more fanfic staring himself! It's right up his alley!

As long as Tom C comes back in some form I don't mind!

ETA:

ohh the Lego scene was totally awesome!!!!! The red astronaut and Iris figurine with all the curly hair that didn't match real Iris cracked me up!!!!!!

This ep beat out Legends for me this week and Legends is usually my favourite!

Edited February 3, 2017 by Mellowyellow
extra comment

[Trini]

I thought this was a really good episode for Cisco and Iris (who got the A and B plots respectively). Can we have the writers for this one always, please??

Finally Iris gets to do stuff not directly related to Barry. She had her own scenes with Joe and Wally. I really liked those scenes reminding us that they're a family. Loved that they we got to see the brother/sister crimefighting unit! Showing Iris investigating stuff related to the threat of the week and even connecting it to CCPD, we can do this every week, show. She was being reckless when confronting that arms dealer (she had backup, though), but she got to explain why and be vulnerable and comforted by Barry (when it's usually the opposite). Some really cute scenes with Iris and Barry too.

Cisco was great here, too. He got to develop and showcase his powers, take care of the main threat (action scenes!), expanded on his relationships with Wells(/Thawne) and HR, as well as get a new love interest. And his superhero costume.

Gypsy has to come back to teach Cisco some moves, as well as to finish their interdimensional foreplay.  ;-)

After seeing this episode with Cisco as the main hero, I think they could have done Caitlin's Killer Frost arc better, or at least more nuanced.