S01.E14: I Call Marriage

[Drumpf1737]

19 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

I think it would have been more realistic to have someone who is maybe 50 lbs overweight to play Kate....more realistic that she would have 2 men after her as well.....

So Kevin James could really be married to Leah Remini?!!!!! Tom Arnold could realistically be married to Courtney Thorne Smith? Old men who aren't billionaires can get wives that are 20/30 years younger? I think a change in mindset/outlook is in order rather than a change to the show.

I LOVE BETH!!! She's a badass. She's a lawyer. She loves, protects and "gets" Randall that's why I love her. Quirky people like Randall need to find their "person" who's willing to accept their quirks. Randall really hasn't articulated his concerns about work so Beth is still in the dark about the competition and pressure that's happening.

Who is the target for this show? If you think about it from that perspective maybe it will be easier to let little nitpicky things go, like which door Randall leaves from or Jack's perfection  (FFS). Aren't there enough abusive, inconsiderate, not present husbands on TV? I find it refreshing to see a good husband on television finally.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Drumpf1737
ETA because has and hasn't are 2 different things

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

As a woman, I find it absolutely repulsive that there are people who think they have the right to "let me know they want to fuck me" whenever and however they want. It's that kind of attitude that makes men think it's okay to scream "nice tits" at a woman from a moving car. It IS morally wrong, actually. It makes women feel unsafe and vulnerable to attacks.

If someone can't handle a crass comment, then they'll never be able handle any real problems.  And seriously this is 2017, let'd not even try to pretend that this exact same stuff isnt done to men too.

Getting back to this show, Kate is a grown woman responsible for her actions.  She is free to report him.  She is free to go to his cabin to smack the living shit out of him.  She's free to go have crazy animal sex with him.  Whatever Kate decides to go is all on Kate.  

In this episode, she told Toby to leave.  Again, that was her decision.

55 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

So Kevin James is believable could really be married to Leah Remini?!!!!! Tom Arnold could realistically be married to Courtney Thorne Smith? Old men who aren't billionaires can get wives that are 20/30 years younger? I think a change in mindset/outlook is in order rather than a change to the show.

I LOVE BETH!!! She's a badass. She's a lawyer. She loves, protects and "gets" Randall that's why I love her. Quirky people like Randall need to find their "person" who's willing to accept their quirks. Randall really has articulated his concerns about work so Beth is still in the dark about the competition and pressure at work.

Who is the target for this show? If you think about it from that perspective maybe it will be easier to let little nitpicky things, like which door Randall leaves from or Jack's perfection, go (FFS). Aren't there enough abusive, inconsiderate, not present husbands on TV? I find it refreshing to see a good husband on television finally.

Kevin and Leah made perfect sense because Doug & Carrie's personalities perfectly balanced each other out.  I don't know what show or movie had Tom Arnold carried to Courtney Thorne Smith, but a lot of women do seem attracted to goofballs like Tom.

And there are couple of all income levels where one spouse/partner is more attractive than the other.  I believe How I Met Your Mother labled each half of a couple a reacher or a settler.

[DayGlorious]

38 minutes ago, Tiger said:

IMHO, Duke has not made one agressive, overly or otherwise, move on Kate.  Letting someone know that you want to date, fuck, etc them isn't a crime and frankly isn't even morally wrong.

If taking Kate's phone from her to hang up on Toby and telling her she will have sex with him despite her protests isn't "aggressive" to you, then I shudder to think of what other behavior you might see as OK. 

[AlliMo]

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

If someone can't handle a crass comment, then they'll never be able handle any real problems.  And seriously this is 2017, let'd not even try to pretend that this exact same stuff isnt done to men too.

Getting back to this show, Kate is a grown woman responsible for her actions.  She is free to report him.  She is free to go to his cabin to smack the living shit out of him.  She's free to go have crazy animal sex with him.  Whatever Kate decides to go is all on Kate.  

In this episode, she told Toby to leave.  Again, that was her decision.

I will never understand people who think that inappropriate behavior should just be excused because you should have a tough enough skin to handle it. It isn't a question of whether or not a person can handle it. It's the fact that it shouldn't be happening at all.

[Tiger]

1 minute ago, AlliMo said:

I will never understand people who think that inappropriate behavior should just be excused because you should have a tough enough skin to handle it. It isn't a question of whether or not a person can handle it. It's the fact that it shouldn't be happening at all.

But who defines what is "inappropriate behavior"?  Beyonce's fans on Twitter?  The EU Council in Brussels?  Seriously, who?

Here, Kate keeps coming back at Duke.  And while free to walk away, report him, etc, she hasn't.  

7 minutes ago, DayGlorious said:

If taking Kate's phone from her to hang up on Toby and telling her she will have sex with him despite her protests isn't "aggressive" to you, then I shudder to think of what other behavior you might see as OK. 

I believe his exact words were "this will happen". And even if Duke wants it to happen, it doesnt mean it has to or "will". Kate has her own agency.  Stefano DiMeria hasnt put a chip in her brain or brainwashed ber.  

All that said, the second Duke forces something and/or removes or she doesnt have agency, then it's a different story.  But thus far everything we've seen on screen the past two eps, Kate has agency.

[DayGlorious]

1 minute ago, Tiger said:

All that said, the second Duke forces something and/or removes or she doesnt have agency, then it's a different story.  But thus far everything we've seen on screen the past two eps, Kate has agency.

Yeah, she sure had agency when Duke grabbed her phone and hung up on Toby. 

[Tiger]

2 minutes ago, DayGlorious said:

Yeah, she sure had agency when Duke grabbed her phone and hung up on Toby. 

He literally handed her phone right back to her.  He did not take her phone, prevent her from walking away, etc.

Besides, for all we know, the talking actually was disturbing the horses.

[kili]

Quote

Here, Kate keeps coming back at Duke.  And while free to walk away, report him, etc, she hasn't.

In this episode, she was walking and talking to a friend and Duke rudely interrupted them with unwelcome comments. He later comes up to her while she is exercising and starts being intrusive again. The only time Kate has initiated a conversation with him is when she thanked him - and then he grossed her out again.

If Person A keeps telling Person B to leave them alone, persisting in bothering Person A is probably something Person B should consider not doing. Learn to read body language. If Person A looks at Person B  like Kate looks at Duke, Person B should probably realize they are grossing out Person A and try a different approach or exit stage left.

Just because Kate has been nice enough not to report him (most people don't want to get somebody fired), doesn't mean she's secretly telling him "Keep, up the hot flirting". 

His behaviour might not be illegal, but it is unpleasant and bad for business. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by kili

[Court]

@Tiger While I don't agree about Horse Dick, your comment made me laugh out loud about how you would have Toby die.

In regards to obesity, one is not always obese. I have been every size from size 0 to my current size which is 22/24. The heaviest I've ever been.

I was chubby as a kid, lost weight and was tiny from 8th grade to about 21. Still average and then I had 3 kids and a few bouts of severe depression. The worst episode was when I was trying to lose weight and had pretty much stopped eating. 

I enjoyed the episode overall. I'm clearly in the minority.

[memememe76]

Interesting commentary. With Randall and Beth, I find it extremely interesting to see how they are approaching William's. Beth is perhaps more objective, but she has to consider how this will affect the girls and it can't help but think about the loss of her own dad. She may have felt that her surviving parent was not there enough for her when the dad died. Probably because her mom had to work and make the money. Maybe that is why she called marriage on Randall.

With regard to Kate, I think if the post episode show is any indication, the actress has a pretty good read of Kate's issues and emotional journey. Toby may or may not be end game, but I don't think the writers will have Kate do it with Horse Guy. Having her have an affair and seek Toby's forgiveness will be too similar to the Kevin and Sophie storyline. 

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

 What is that old movie with the Empire State Building meet-up?

An Affair to Remember (1957), starring Deborah Kerr and Cary Grant. Sleepless in Seattle referenced it most directly.

[DayGlorious]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

He literally handed her phone right back to her.  He did not take her phone, prevent her from walking away, etc.

Besides, for all we know, the talking actually was disturbing the horses.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Getting back to this show, Kate is a grown woman responsible for her actions.  She is free to report him.  She is free to go to his cabin to smack the living shit out of him.  She's free to go have crazy animal sex with him.  Whatever Kate decides to go is all on Kate.  

Very True !

Kevin and Sophie have no chemistry at all. None. I'm trying to think of an actress I can picture with Kevin and that might have some chemistry..hmm ?

As  someone else stated, I have never seen any pictures of Chrissy other than being huge. I'm not really believing the smaller size stories. Actually, I have watched her on a few talk shows, I don't believe a lot of her stories.

 

Quote

I did a search and couldn't find ANY pictures of Metz thin (a 5'5" size 12, who lost 50 pounds would be a size 6 at the largest, that's thin) or even remotely "average" (size 12) or even merely "chubby" or fat.....Every image is her and HUGE. And until I see pictures of her at any of the above (and not subsequently), I'm going to take that as something her publicist whipped up.

yup....

Edited February 9, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[DesertCyclist]

I'm torn between applauding the show for focusing on issues like obesity and hating that it makes Kate so one-dimensional. I'd find her character much more compelling if she were more than just her waistline.

[SlovakPrincess]

1 minute ago, DesertCyclist said:

I'm torn between applauding the show for focusing on issues like obesity and hating that it makes Kate so one-dimensional. I'd find her character much more compelling if she were more than just her waistline.

I agree, but I also kind of get it.  Kate herself feels like it all comes down to the weight ... her relationships, her lack of a steady career and confidence, etc.  Whether she's correct about this or not, she said to Toby "it's always gonna be about the weight for me."   It would be nice if Kate could focus on other things more often, but it's also realistic that someone would become super focused on weight loss if they felt that was the key to getting their life under control.  And that is frustrating for Toby, clearly.

Much as Olivia annoyed me, I do think she made an interesting point: what if Kate's problems are still there when she loses the weight?   And Kate was offended, not only because Olivia is a horribly rude person, but because Olivia might be right ... Kate is scared on some level that this won't fix everything.  

So while the show portrays Kate as thinking almost always about her weight, it seems to be making a point, hinting that Kate's single minded focus is causing her other problems.   

[DebbieM4]

16 hours ago, Haleth said:

 

Everyone needs a Beth to set us straight.

OMG, yes.  I wish I had someone like her in my life.  And I would also like to BE like her.

15 hours ago, luna1122 said:

 

Everyone monologues on this show.

I've really only noticed that Rebecca does that because her monologues seem to go on and on, and my mind starts to wander.  But now that you mention it, I can see that others do it too.  For some reason, though, their monologues don't seem so endless and boring.   Rebecca - even when she has a regular conversation - nearly always puts me to sleep.  I find her to be very one-dimensional and flat, and wish she was more interesting.   

13 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 Randall is the heart of the show for me.  Without him and his family, I'd have no interest in watching.

I agree.  It's present-day Randall and his family that keep me coming back.  I don't find any of the others anywhere near as compelling/fun to watch.

3 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

 

I usually like--not love, but definitely like--this show, but I found this episode to be an irritating combination of cloying and half-assed. I wanted it to get off my lawn.

Yes.  Me too! 

[breezy424]

I don't have a problem with Beth calling 'marriage'.  To me it was something they have discussed and disagreed about that have happened in the past.  Let's face it.  Randall is very much about his career.  He's caught up in it....like many Wall Streeters are.  It's the nature of the business.  Beth has accepted it but there seems to be an agreement that there are sometimes that Randall 'needs' to take a step back and realize what is most important.  Beth calls this out when she feels it's necessary.

I don't think Kate is going to do 'it' with Duke.  I think she thinks about it but I'll be disappointed if she does.  Maybe she does go to cabin 13 but I think it will be more about learning about her relationship with Toby. I can't stand Duke but he is making her 'think'. She loves Toby but she's also realizing how much 'she' is giving up to be with him.  She's settling.  And she's in the process of learning this.  At least, I hope she is.

On Rebecca doing the tour...  The kids may be teenagers but that doesn't mean that they don't need her.  Both Randall and Kevin are doing sports.  Who's going to pick them up after practice?  What else are these kids involved in?  It's not so easy.  It's complicated.  There is a balance between families having the financial support that they need to have a certain standard of living and parents fulfilling their careers and dreams.  Sometimes those choices are really hard.  Parenting and marriages are about compromises and paying the price for those compromises. 

On another note...  The subway car was ridiculous.  I'm thinking that's what they had available in the lot at the time and they just went with it to save money...and hoped no one noticed.  It happens a lot on this show.

Since I was the one to bring up the garage thing, I come from a place of knowing NJ, knowing what houses are like and the one being portrayed are about.  Note...I'm talking about what Randall's house as it is being portrayed.   Yeah, I get that Father Knows Best, etc. always have dad walking through the front door to show that he's home.  It still doesn't make it 'real'.  In upper middle income families (and Randall is above this.  More like a one percenter) you park your $100k plus car in the garage.  Especially in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic.  We have 'weather'.  We have snow and rain.  You go through the garage to the mud or laundry room (yeah, I get that many new homes have the laundry room upstairs) but there's still an 'area'  where the garage door is.  You put your computer/brief case in this room.  You take off your shoes if you've been outdoors in the 'weather'.   If you're upper middle class or a one percenter, you don't have stuff in your garage.  There's no mowers or snow blowers, etc.  You have a 'guy' who comes and does that.  Yeah, I get it's minutia.   It just bugs me that TV shows get so much 'wrong'.  Like the subway car.  I probably get more bugged because of the flashbacks.  I'm like WTF.  Um...no.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

But who defines what is "inappropriate behavior"?  Beyonce's fans on Twitter?  The EU Council in Brussels?  Seriously, who?

Here, Kate keeps coming back at Duke.  And while free to walk away, report him, etc, she hasn't.  

I believe his exact words were "this will happen". And even if Duke wants it to happen, it doesnt mean it has to or "will". Kate has her own agency.  Stefano DiMeria hasnt put a chip in her brain or brainwashed ber.  

All that said, the second Duke forces something and/or removes or she doesnt have agency, then it's a different story.  But thus far everything we've seen on screen the past two eps, Kate has agency.

Emily Post https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Post

Who probably rolls in her grave faster than a spin class.  Yes, Emily's ideas are outdated but the Emily Post Institute keeps up to date.  http://emilypost.com/

Not that anyone ELECTED her and her institute.  But generally speaking, if you follow Emily Post rules, you have NOT made a gaffe.

My favorite rule: If someone has a clothing issue that can be easily fixed right then, tell them so they don't see it later and are embarrassed.  Examples: Someone's shirt tag sticking up, whisper to them and let them know. On the other hand, if someone has an ink stain on their shirt you ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.  There is nothing they can do about it and drawing attention to it just makes them feel bad.  

http://emilypost.com/advice/top-ten-cell-phone-manners/

Kate was using good manners by going away from others to make her call.  Once she was told it was disturbing the horses, then she should turn it off.  But it didn't happen that way.  The Horse's Ass came up from behind, touched her and her cell phone without notice or permission.  He didn't just break into her personal space (18 inch minimum), he actually touched her without permission. http://emilypost.com/advice/the-good-conversationalist-the-basics/

 If a person's mother/father/guardian didn't teach Horse's Ass the fundamentals of appropriate behavior, then I would have thought his primary school (Grade 1-6... or more likely Kindergarten) would have enforced basic personal interaction rules.  Perhaps he's always been an entitled person and thinks the rules don't apply to him.  

 

ETA:  Horse's Ass also violated the widely accept "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten" by Robert Fulghum  http://www.les.rcs.k12.tn.us/TEACHERS/FergusonM/allireallyneededtoknowilearnedinkindergarten.pdf

Edited February 9, 2017 by SueB

[Dowel Jones]

In an odd way, Beth's "marriage call" may have saved Randall some serious grief.  If he had gone to the dinner with the client and Sanjay, I'll lay odds that Sanjay would have needled him relentlessly in order to make himself look better to the client.  Randall might then overreact, as he is primed to do already, which of course would get back to the boss.  Bad news on the doorstep.

[maggiemae]

I'm curious - a 5 city takes what amount of time? At the most 2 weeks?

[chocolatine]

55 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

On Rebecca doing the tour...  The kids may be teenagers but that doesn't mean that they don't need her.  Both Randall and Kevin are doing sports.  Who's going to pick them up after practice?  What else are these kids involved in?  It's not so easy.  It's complicated.  There is a balance between families having the financial support that they need to have a certain standard of living and parents fulfilling their careers and dreams.  Sometimes those choices are really hard.  Parenting and marriages are about compromises and paying the price for those compromises. 

Exactly. Jack gave up his dream of starting his own business and instead went to work for Miguel so that they could pay for Randall's private school. Now he's working 12-hour days at a job he didn't want in the first place, so the least he can expect is for Rebecca to pull her weight at home. I'm not saying Rebecca should give up singing entirely, but there are plenty of people with jobs and families who play/sing in a band as a hobby, without it interfering with their day-to-day responsibilities.

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Now that people commented on Kate's 'belly' caving in in some scenes, I'm thinking that she probably is padded and that's why she's so oddly shaped.  I have trouble believing that she lost 100 lbs. before American Horror Story but now looks like this, unpadded.  

 

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The math in that article is completely off. It says she was a size 12, then lost 50 pounds, then gained "more than 100", then lost 100. Assuming "more than 100" was less than 200 - because otherwise the article would have said 200 - she would now be back to her "size 12" weight, give or take a few pounds, which is obviously not the case.

I agree. The article gave a false impression that Chrissy had been thin until recently.  Just because she started her career at size 12 doesn't mean she hadn't prepped for that moment by losing 100 pounds. I never like the use of a dress size to imply weight, anyway.  Women who wear a certain size can vary by 50 pounds depending on weight distribution and the sizes themselves vary according to how expensive the store is.  As the saying goes, if she has enough money, any woman can wear a size 4.

I have no trouble believing she lost 100lbs before American Horror Story and now looks like this.  We don't know her starting weight, plus regain is very fast with some people.  The year I quit smoking, I went from 120 to 180 in five months.  But then I have a stretchy black-belt in yo-yo dieting.

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I don't think Kate is going to do 'it' with Duke.  I think she thinks about it but I'll be disappointed if she does.  Maybe she does go to cabin 13 but I think it will be more about learning about her relationship with Toby. I can't stand Duke but he is making her 'think'. She loves Toby but she's also realizing how much 'she' is giving up to be with him.  She's settling.  And she's in the process of learning this.  At least, I hope she is.

That's what I hope, too.  I'm not sure she and Toby are on very solid ground.  She didn't want to initially get involved, and once she opened up he started trampling boundaries right off the bat.  She broke it up, he came back with the grand Christmas Eve proclamations.  He has a brush with death, she accepts proposal.  This is all in the space of about four months.  They could work out, but maybe she is getting a wake up call via this horrible stable guy. 

[Thalia]

While I loved Jack's gesture, I spent much of the last five minutes of the show as follows:  Did someone clean that bathroom?  I guess a cleaning service probably cleaned it after the last tenant left.  But how good a job did they do?  Would Jack have had enough time to string up those lights and clean the bathroom floor?  I thought his job kept him so busy?  They look really sweet.  But I still think I'd be sitting on a towel... 

This look into my mind brought to you by someone who still can't get over Brenda having sex on the floor of a Barnes and Noble bathroom on Six Feet Under.  :-) 

[PRgal]

20 hours ago, Kenz said:

Jack is pretty perfect, but why do they have to make the back of his hair so strange and greasy? (Sorry if someone has commented on this already.)

Because he can't be 100% perfect in every way.

[JudyObscure]

Agree about the germy discomfort of the empty bathroom.  The first thing that took me out of the Grand Gesture was Jack's remark about the kids being with someone else.  No one has ever called me and asked me to keep their kids overnight for a non-emergency situation and I wouldn't dream of asking them.  I know some people have this back and forth arrangement with other parents, but It's odd to me.

[PRgal]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Agree about the germy discomfort of the empty bathroom.  The first thing that took me out of the Grand Gesture was Jack's remark about the kids being with someone else.  No one has ever called me and asked me to keep their kids overnight for a non-emergency situation and I wouldn't dream of asking them.  I know some people have this back and forth arrangement with other parents, but It's odd to me.

I was thinking about that too.  I didn't know you could rent a place for one night back then.  Airbnb wasn't around in the 90s.

Edited February 9, 2017 by PRgal

[Guest]

Well, they haven't had 'sex in an inappropriate place' in a few episodes.   I guess 'vacant apt. bathroom' checks that off.  It did gross me out.   

I thought it was weird that they got rid of the kids AND left, but sex at home just wouldn't have checked the odd and nostalgic boxes.  I thought it'd make the most sense if they sent the kids to grandmas or something (and stayed home) but I think both sets of parents are supposed to be unhelpful or estranged or far, right?  

Has anyone made fun of Wedding Jack looking like Wolfman Jack?  Or his crazy, ruffley shirt under his jacket at the wedding?   It didn't just have a ruffley front, it had sweet little cuff ruffles peeking out from his jacket sleeves!  

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[tennisgurl]

I really hope that Kate isn't going to go hook up with Duke the Horse Dick. I don't think he is an actual danger to her or anything, but he is a VERY creepy asshole who I hope doesn't get to hook up with Kate because of his assholeness. It would be one thing if he hit on her, and then backed off when she wasn't interested, but let her know if she changed her mind he would still be into it, he wont back off her. Seriously, how does this guy still have a job? He clearly hates where he works, tells people their progress is a waste of time, and acts creepy towards clients. I'm amazed no one has reported him before.

I really just want Kate to have story that has nothing to do with men, or with being overweight. Or some combination of both. The other characters get some diversity of character traits and plot lines, why not Kate? I get why they want to do the struggles of an overweight women, because we don't see it on TV very much, but you have to give her some more character traits or plots at some point!

[Portia]

What I found the most unbelievable about Jack's romantic gesture was how Rebecca unquestioningly accepted that he'd packed for her. I'm 29 years in with the most thoughtful man on earth, but no WAY would I trust my husband to pack for me, even for a quick overnight trip. At the very least I'd quiz him about a few key items before I got in the car.  I think it's would have been funny if Rebecca has asked Jack if he remembered the birth control.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Portia

[DesertCyclist]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Agree about the germy discomfort of the empty bathroom.

Say what?!  Milo Ventimiglia could jump my bones in a dumpster, and I'd be okay with it. :-P

Edited February 9, 2017 by DesertCyclist

[ChromaKelly]

13 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I was groaning aloud at the nostalgia.  How she eats, what she wore, how she bites her nails, the booth they sat in, the fries, her claustrophobia, her back acne, blah blah blah.  It was Pilgrim Jack levels all over again.  

Then Jack and the magical shower they boffed in!  Their amazing vows!  The shared reassurances that they are better than the Miguels!  The indignant claim by Jack that there is only ONE RIGHT WAY to love and that's find your soulmate, marry, then stay together til death regardless of your actual feelings for each other!  

I do hope they divorce now.  And I do think they could divorce and Rebecca could wear the moon necklace.  I still have all the gifted jewelry from my exes.   I wear it with fond memories or none, it's just jewelry.  I could see her divorcing and then pulling that thing back out after Jack died.  

I think Kate's going to hook up with Duke and I'm ok with that.  His point was that they're hedonists who say 'screw moderation' and maybe that's ok.  I don't think it was written well, but it's more interesting than Toby the Sex Clown.  They keep writing that everyone thinks they know Kate inside and out at first sight.  Toby, Olivia, now Duke.  

I laughed at Kevin setting up the suspenseful "will she or won't she" diner scene.  Who does that?  We're talking now but I'm going to tell you where I'll be at 8am and you show up if you like me.  And check the "yes" box on my little note if you like me, too.  What is that old movie with the Empire State Building meet-up?  How many tv shows and movies have ripped off that trope?  

The monologues were putting me to sleep.

Now that people commented on Kate's 'belly' caving in in some scenes, I'm thinking that she probably is padded and that's why she's so oddly shaped.  I have trouble believing that she lost 100 lbs. before American Horror Story but now looks like this, unpadded.  

Alllll of this except I'm not ok with Kate and Duke getting down. I hope she reports his creepy, unprofessional ass. 
This family is almost bordering on weird with their nostalgia and traditions. The last episodes with the "We always do birthdays like this! What about pin the tail on the donkey???" Ugh. They need to change up the background music too. The folk guitar coming in under all the "moments" was eyeroll-inducing.
Both Kate and Toby's padding is distracting.

I took Randall's boss offloading some work to Sanjay not as an insult, but that he could see Randall is getting stressed out and needs some breathing room. He values Randall as an employee and doesn't want him to burn out.

I just don't care about Kevin and Sophie.

[DayGlorious]

1 minute ago, ChromaKelly said:

I took Randall's boss offloading some work to Sanjay not as an insult, but that he could see Randall is getting stressed out and needs some breathing room. He values Randall as an employee and doesn't want him to burn out.

Yeah, I didn't see any nefariousness on the boss's side of things. Sanjay just out-type-As Randall, or at least appears to have fewer obligations competing for his time (or is more apt to push them aside). 

[Lady Calypso]

10 hours ago, breezy424 said:

On Rebecca doing the tour...  The kids may be teenagers but that doesn't mean that they don't need her.  Both Randall and Kevin are doing sports.  Who's going to pick them up after practice?  What else are these kids involved in?  It's not so easy.  It's complicated.  There is a balance between families having the financial support that they need to have a certain standard of living and parents fulfilling their careers and dreams.  Sometimes those choices are really hard.  Parenting and marriages are about compromises and paying the price for those compromises. 

You know, this is a good point...however, I actually started thinking about something. Jack's been lucky in that he's always had Rebecca as his partner in crime, so to speak, to pick up the slack. Sure, Jack goes to their games and he works hard and he's still able to make time for his kids, but that's because he's always had Rebecca there so he can do all of these things. What happens when Rebecca isn't there and he needs to be the primary caregiver? I think that might be a question that does arise if Rebecca does go through with the tour. And yes, I understand that it should be two parents doing the work, not one parent while the other one is doing other things.

I don't know if Rebecca should be going on this tour and I do think Jack's done a lot for his family. I just think back to the second or third episode, where Rebecca brought up the point about Jack being the fun parent, so with Rebecca possibly going out on tour, Jack would have to give up the fun parent role to take on both parenting roles. We've seen Jack make these grand speeches to his children and we know that they see him in a positive light because he hasn't been shown to make the really hard choices. 

I guess I take a look at families who have one parent having to travel once in a while. Sure, Rebecca has a choice and sure, this would be for a few weeks. But I do see the kids as old enough to be able to care for themselves when their mom's away. I see it as Rebecca doing something a little selfish for herself, but it's not like she's abandoning the family. Of course I see things differently as a young adult so I don't have the experience of a parent to know how this can be impactful for Rebecca to go on tour for a few weeks. 

Also, I've been trying to see Rebecca's choices in a more positive light instead of her always being made to be the bad guy. The show keeps reiterating how perfect Jack is so I see this as an opportunity to see Jack's parenting skills when he has to make the hard decisions without Rebecca. 

[Granny58]

12 hours ago, Tiger said:

12 hours ago, AlliMo said:

I will never understand people who think that inappropriate behavior should just be excused because you should have a tough enough skin to handle it. It isn't a question of whether or not a person can handle it. It's the fact that it shouldn't be happening at all.

But who defines what is "inappropriate behavior"?  Beyonce's fans on Twitter?  The EU Council in Brussels?  Seriously, who?

Here, Kate keeps coming back at Duke.  And while free to walk away, report him, etc, she hasn't.  

12 hours ago, DayGlorious said:

If taking Kate's phone from her to hang up on Toby and telling her she will have sex with him despite her protests isn't "aggressive" to you, then I shudder to think of what other behavior you might see as OK. 

I believe his exact words were "this will happen". And even if Duke wants it to happen, it doesnt mean it has to or "will". Kate has her own agency.  Stefano DiMeria hasnt put a chip in her brain or brainwashed ber.  

All that said, the second Duke forces something and/or removes or she doesnt have agency, then it's a different story.  But thus far everything we've seen on screen the past two eps, Kate has agency.

I get what you're saying here.  Most of us here have probably have had to endure company sensitivity training which enforces the idea that harassment is based on the receiver's perception, not the giver's intent, which I find to be a really treacherous slippery slope with the potential to criminalize the most innocent comment.  So yeah, I don't want to go overboard.  However, I do find this guy's comments and attitude out of bounds.   She has said "get lost" to him, and he doesn't.  That actually is an attitude that will get you fired.  In fact, I think that could be a good storyline....her firmly confronting him, telling him if he doesn't stop she will take it to management, and he relents (or doesn't and faces consequences).  Because even with a tough skin, men and women both live on Earth but in different worlds, and we view potential threats differently.  I remember years ago my husband and I were hiking in a state park.  He wanted to run up a mountain to see the other side (it wasn't much further and for only a short time, but would out of sight) but there was no way I could do that.  So I waited....alone in the woods.  The entire time I was figuring out the best routes of escape, I held a strong branch just in case (human or animal), and listened to EVERY sound.  These are things that would not have occurred to him.  So to circle back, I don't want to over react to benign comments (you look nice today doesn't rise to the level of harassment after all), but a culture that ignores predatory remarks to women does create a threatening environment. 

[Crs97]

39 minutes ago, Portia said:

What I found the most unbelievable about Jack's romantic gesture was how Rebecca unquestioningly accepted that he'd packed for her. I'm 29 years in with the most thoughtful man on earth, but no WAY would I trust my husband to pack for me, even for a quick overnight trip. At the very least I'd quiz him about a few key items before I got in the car.  I think it's would have been funny if Rebecca has asked Jack if he remembered the birth control.

Edited 13 minutes ago by Portia.

That was the first comment hubby said to me:  "I would never try to pack for you!"  I asked if they would sleep in a sleeping bag or on an air mattress.  We both grimaced at the bathtub and floor.  We wanted to know where the towels came from.  Clearly we are made for each other and not for Jack or Rebecca!

[ChromaKelly]

5 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I get what you're saying here.  Most of us here have probably have had to endure company sensitivity training which enforces the idea that harassment is based on the receiver's perception, not the giver's intent, which I find to be a really treacherous slippery slope with the potential to criminalize the most innocent comment.  So yeah, I don't want to go overboard.  However, I do find this guy's comments and attitude out of bounds.   She has said "get lost" to him, and he doesn't.  That actually is an attitude that will get you fired.  In fact, I think that could be a good storyline....her firmly confronting him, telling him if he doesn't stop she will take it to management, and he relents (or doesn't and faces consequences).  Because even with a tough skin, men and women both live on Earth but in different worlds, and we view potential threats differently.  I remember years ago my husband and I were hiking in a state park.  He wanted to run up a mountain to see the other side (it wasn't much further and for only a short time, but would out of sight) but there was no way I could do that.  So I waited....alone in the woods.  The entire time I was figuring out the best routes of escape, I held a strong branch just in case (human or animal), and listened to EVERY sound.  These are things that would not have occurred to him.  So to circle back, I don't want to over react to benign comments (you look nice today doesn't rise to the level of harassment after all), but a culture that ignores predatory remarks to women does create a threatening environment. 

Especially given the nature of the camp. Weight loss has a huge psychological component to it. I would imagine the staff would be trained to be sensitive to the clients but not get personally involved. Sleeping with a client has got to be a fireable offense, no matter what your job at the camp entails. I also thought his little speech was out of line too. She is there to lose weight and he's undermining her. 

[Drumpf1737]

Quote

Most of us here have probably have had to endure company sensitivity training which enforces the idea that harassment is based on the receiver's perception, not the giver's intent, 

Because it is! Do you want to know what I'm typically thinking during these encounters? "wow your belly is so big I bet you can barely see your dick"  "jesus you smell like baloney"

 If I find you attractive I'll let you know that I'm interested. If I noted your presence and didn't give you any indication I'm interested, see "baloney" and "dick" comments above.In continuing to insist there's nothing wrong with approaching/encroaching on women in their space the point is being proven. What the fuck is so hard about leaving women the fuck alone? The only motherfuckers that insist on telling you that you're pretty or you smell good are creeps, who have a problem with boundaries.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Drumpf1737

[tennisgurl]

I have been thinking about the debate as to whether Dukes actions are ok or not, and, to me, its about the harassment part of sexual harassment. Like, for example, I had a co-worker one time who asked me if I wanted to get a drink with him. I said no, I wasn't looking to date right then, and he basically said "alright, well if you change your mind, you know where I am" and he left it at that. We did later become friendlier, but he started dating another women, and he never asked me out again, even before he met his girlfriend. That was totally fine to me. He asked if I was interested, I said no, he said the offer to hang out was still good if I changed my mind, and we went about our day. I don't consider that to be inappropriate*. Saying someone looks nice, or even asking them out once or flirting, isn't inherently wrong (unless there is a serious imbalance of power in the asking out, which is another issue) in my opinion, even in a workplace. If someone wants to tell me I like nice, sure, awesome! I tell my co-workers they look good all the time. As long as its not known to be unwanted, its no problem. What Duke is doing is not taking no for an answer. She made it clear she isn't into him, but he keeps hitting on her and being creepy about it. I don't think he will actually try to hurt Kate, but he is clearly making her uncomfortable, he keeps trying to hit on her even after she said she wasn't interested, and he was giving her these really condescending "you don't know what you want, your trying to be something your not" speeches. Like, asshole, you don't know her! You have no idea what she wants or does not want! And, why the hell do you work at a weight loss camp if you think weight loss is stupid? He is not only being inappropriate, both as an employee and as a person who shares space with other people, he just makes no sense. Maybe no one else would hire his creepy ass, and he's the owners weirdo cousin or something.

*My situation and Kates situation are pretty different though, considering we were co-workers at the same level, and not employee/client, and he asked me to go on a date, not just to have sex. Which is the weirdest part of all of this to me. In my experience, people will at least offer the pretense of flirting or going on a date before just trying to get some, especially if its in a day to day life setting, and not at a bar or something. In college I hung out with MANY horny frat bros, and even they would at least throw out some compliments, or offer to buy the person they were into a drink or a coffee or something before they started propositioning them.

Edited February 9, 2017 by tennisgurl

[3 is enough]

Quote

Both Kate and Toby's padding is distracting.
 

I know Toby is wearing padding.  A couple of weeks ago I saw an article about his weight loss. http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/this-is-us-chris-sullivan-weight-loss-123344/photos/milo-ventimiglia-202164

But Kate?  I don't know.  Maybe they have padded her around the middle a bit, but in photos from the Golden Globes Chrissy Metz did not look significantly thinner to me.  She seems to be an apple shape- her legs are actually quite small in proportion to her midsection, but her face is still full.  

[topanga]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:41 AM, msani19 said:

Very much agree on the point about Kate and her self-esteem. My problem with Duke or Douche is that he's such a POS that it makes my blood boil. When Toby showed up and he was telling him that the place was like a playground to get women to sleep with him, I as so grossed out. That such a classic tactic (those MRA and pick-up artists losers talk about it all the time) to take advantage of vulnerable women. I also think he's got no self-esteem himself (separate from his own weight issue). No one with any confidence, small or large, feels the need to prey upon any other human being. It would be laughably pathetic if it wasn't harmful. The guy is a repugnant jerk. What was the show thinking with that addition? 

I know that feeling Randall was having at work…splitting accounts is just the first step. I've been there. You gotta be twice as good, all the time. You can never have a "rough patch", it's not afforded to you. He won’t react well to this and I feel like there’s a potential rift between him and Rebecca coming. He’ll be pissed that she called “marriage” for the night and allowed Sanjay to get the client for himself. I like the "I call marriage" as a concept. Maybe they have talked about it before but I missed it but are there parameters for it or either one can just call "marriage" and the other one needs to agree?

I agree with both points. Someone should report Duke for inappropriate behavior and preying on clients. 

 

15 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

5. Randall's situation rang more true for me, as it often does. Sterling K. Brown is making more of his character than almost anyone else on this show is managing to do. I felt for what he was going through, being torn between work and home, and his denial about what's happening with William was believable in its harshness. I didn't even really think his boss was being an ass. In that situation, I might even appreciate having some of the pressure lifted (once I'd finished panicking). What came across to me was that his boss does value him, but also realizes he's going through some things at home, so he (the boss) is being pragmatic. (Side note: I'd normally be completely down with Beth's "I call marriage", but not for that bogus chess "tournament". I wish they could have had her call marriage for a better reason).

Two things: First, no one in Randall's position, or in is field, would appreciate having his workload lightened. It does scream punishment and demotion--"You can't handle the work!" If his boss were bringing in Sanjay because they were planning on securing a lot of new accounts, that's one thing. But telling Randall that he has to give half of his clients to Sanjay is a real slap in the face. I think that, yes, Randall has been slacking some at work (William and Kevin showing up his job out of blue for lunch dates doesn't help), and his boss most certainly notices this and is reacting to it.  The thing that made my blood boy was the "old boy" slap on the arm. It was a power move, a way for the authority figure to tell the worker bee to lighten up. Yes, you're being demoted, but we're still pals!

Second, as others have pointed out, this is the same Dick boss who makes everyone come to his house on Christmas Eve and who threw their bonus checks on the floor. 

 

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I was groaning aloud at the nostalgia.  How she eats, what she wore, how she bites her nails, the booth they sat in, the fries, her claustrophobia, her back acne, blah blah blah.  It was Pilgrim Jack levels all over again.  

Then Jack and the magical shower they boffed in!  Their amazing vows!  The shared reassurances that they are better than the Miguels!  The indignant claim by Jack that there is only ONE RIGHT WAY to love and that's find your soulmate, marry, then stay together til death regardless of your actual feelings for each other!  

I love this show, but this is the one aspect of the show that bugs me. The magical relationships. The earth-moving love. The grand romantic gestures. The secret codes that we must honor. And the monologues. Everyone with those friggin' monologues.  Which is why I like watching the Big 3 as kids and teenagers. They don't speak in monologues. Just halting sentences, as normal people do. 

And the one couple with realistic feelings--Shelly and Miguel--are made to seem like horrible people because they fell out of love and mutually decided to end a dead marriage. Granted, it is sad when people divorce, but Shelly and Miguel aren't evil because they realized they couldn't make their marriage work. Maybe they did go to counseling, and it didn't help. Maybe the coffee incident happened years ago, and they've been trying to rekindle their love since then. 

--Oh, and the perfect men. I'm tired of seeing and hearing about how perfect most of the men are while the women are regular-old flawed human beings who make mistakes. How dare they?

 

Disclaimer: I still want to be friends with Beth and Randall. Secret codes and monologues aside, they're the best.

Edited February 9, 2017 by topanga

[ChromaKelly]

Just now, 3 is enough said:

I know Toby is wearing padding.  A couple of weeks ago I saw an article about his weight loss. http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/this-is-us-chris-sullivan-weight-loss-123344/photos/milo-ventimiglia-202164

But Kate?  I don't know.  Maybe they have padded her around the middle a bit, but in photos from the Golden Globes Chrissy Metz did not look significantly thinner to me.  She seems to be an apple shape- her legs are actually quite small in proportion to her midsection, but her face is still full.  

It seems like she's padded around the middle to look more round. Maybe they have padding to not make it look so blobby like natural fat would be? IDK. 

[llewis823]

22 hours ago, saber5055 said:

TV husbands have been leaving for work via the front door since Father Knows Best. Otherwise, viewers won't know if they are going to work or getting a rake from the garage. And Toby shows up to invade Kate's space because he's been cleared for ... SEX. Toby and SEX. That's all he (appears to) want Kate for. SEX. In the hospital, at her brother's house ... he doesn't care. He is so gross And Beth, for pete's sake, Randall's JOB is paying for that house and your ability to live well. A person in an important position who is at a critical point with the boss (read: He's going to get canned) cannot be late, cannot miss meetings, has to put work first. Meanwhile, Rebecca with three kids is putting her music first. Who is going to take care of those kids while Jack is at work 24/7 and you are on the road? I guess it's her mom, like mom volunteered a few episodes ago. And Randall starting his own business? Please. Then he'll be at work 24/7, 365 days a year. Anyone here who works for themselves knows THAT'S the truth.

Are we the same person? LOL  All that you said above - I agree 100%!

[Granny58]

53 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Because it is! Do you want to know what I'm typically thinking during these encounters? "wow your belly is so big I bet you can barely see your dick"  "jesus you smell like baloney"

 If I find you attractive I'll let you know that I'm interested. If I noted your presence and didn't give you any indication I'm interested, see "baloney" and "dick" comments above.In continuing to insist there's nothing wrong with approaching/encroaching on women in their space the point is being proven. What the fuck is so hard about leaving women the fuck alone? The only motherfuckers that insist on telling you that you're pretty or you smell good are creeps, who have a problem with boundaries.

"You smell like baloney."  LOL LOL  I've met those people!  So let's look at this from  a different angle.  Say there's a guy you're interested in, but he cannot make any sort of indication that he's interested in you.  AND you can't make any indication that you're interested in him because it could be misconstrued as harassment.  Sounds like an impasse.  Yes, those creeps who insist in looking you up and down, or nuzzling your hair for a whiff, or not taking a no...definitely out of bounds.  But I can't say that anything at all that somebody does could be taken as harassment.  

[kili]

Quote

You know, this is a good point...however, I actually started thinking about something. Jack's been lucky in that he's always had Rebecca as his partner in crime, so to speak, to pick up the slack. Sure, Jack goes to their games and he works hard and he's still able to make time for his kids, but that's because he's always had Rebecca there so he can do all of these things.

Jack is not in love with his job. If Rebecca was bringing in her share of the money, I strongly suspect that Jack would be happy to cut down his hours to do his half of the housework/child raising. Rebecca and Jack made the decision that he works long hours earning money for the family while she spends long hours taking care of the family.  If she wants to switch it up and earn all the money for the family (doing a job she likes or hates), then I bet Jack would be supportive and probably become the stay at home dad. 

The problem is that she wants to do a job she loves that pays very little (assuming the size of audience they play for, the type of music they play and the general low income performers get paid for those kinds of gigs and how much they must pay for logistics)  where she is away for weeks at a time while Jack has to take care of the household and continue to work 12 hour days at the job he hates? That's not totally fair.

If Jack has been lucky that Rebecca was willing to be the homemaker (and he is - it is tough to pull constant 12 hour shifts when your spouse also works) she is also lucky that Jack has been working 12 hours shift at a job he hates so that they can have a comfortable lifestyle and send their child to an expensive school. If they want to rethink the expensive school, downsize the house and/or adjust to a lower income, Jack might be able to cut down his hours to say 7 hours a day and also be the primary home maker and allow her to travel to gigs, but that is something they need to discuss.

If it is a one-time two week trip, they can probably manage. If it is to become a regular thing or the trips are longer, they have to rethink their finances and the distribution of the workload.

[Granny58]

55 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I have been thinking about the debate as to whether Dukes actions are ok or not, and, to me, its about the harassment part of sexual harassment. Like, for example, I had a co-worker one time who asked me if I wanted to get a drink with him. I said no, I wasn't looking to date right then, and he basically said "alright, well if you change your mind, you know where I am"

Perfectly done. 

[spaceghostess]

27 minutes ago, topanga said:

Second, as others have pointed out, this is the same Dick boss who makes everyone come to his house on Christmas Eve and who threw their bonus checks on the floor. 

 

Oh, crap--it was that guy? In that case, ITA: he's a total douche, and I wouldn't attribute anything "nice" to him.

Also, I didn't realize how such a move would be taken in that industry (my work experience is in a less competitive branch of a competitive/creative field), so point taken.

[Granny58]

12 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm trying to think of an actress I can picture with Kevin and that might have some chemistr

I'm not an actress, but I'm willing to give it a go and take one for the team.  

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, topanga said:

Someone should report Duke for inappropriate behavior and preying on clients. 

But the someone here is Kate and/or other women at the camp he's hit on, and she hasn't and presumably no one else has.  The show is suggesting that Duke's read on Kate is correct and that she's kind of into it.  If she's into it, it's not inappropriate.  If they're all into it, it's adults flirting.  

I know a lot has been said about the therapeutic environment aspect but the camp seems pretty new-agey, too.  They might take a hands off, 'what happens at fat camp stays at fat camp' stance.  Maybe camp guests are told at the outset that they're free to socialize with the staff and each other all they want outside of organized events.  It's not like Duke is her psychiatrist.  The place feels more resort like than medical to me.  

I do think people are supposed to be clutching their pearls about Duke, though.  But I think he'll turn out to be the one who does have Kate pegged and opens her eyes to Toby being not exactly her soulmate.  

[UsernameFatigue]

I am with those who hated Beth's "I call marriage". Even she did not even know about the tourny the day before. So what if Randall had made the dinner plans then, and at midnight they find out about the tounry. Would she have called marriage then? And as others have pointed out, it is unrealistic for both parents to be at every single activity that their special snowflakes are involved in. Beth and William were already going to be there. And finally, as someone else pointed out, it bugged that the daughter wasn't even learning how to play chess until a few hours before the tournament. But then wins it. Very sloppy writing. But again, if it is something that she had been learning for a long time, the parents would likely have known about the tournament. Call marriage on something that is important. A chess tourny for a kid that has only learned to play hours earlier? Not important.

I liked Miguel's description of how his marriage came apart - it sounded very true to life to me. I remember reading something years ago that said something along the lines of "When you fall in love, you fall in love slowly. When you fall out of love, it is quick". I have found this to be true. When I fall in love I know I am falling in love, until one day I realize I am there. When I have fallen out of love, there are numerous warnings along the way that I have tried to ignore or push down, or pretend they do not matter. Then bang, one day the lid is left off the toothpaste (silly example but you get what I mean) and that's it. I realize I no longer love this person and never will again. Seems to me that is what Miguel was saying.