S01.E10: The Capture of Benedict Arnold

[green]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 They didn't know Rittenhouse was one man until this episode.  Nothing about the organization is documented.

They also apparently don't know about Wikipedia or the internet in general.  You have a name, you google the name.

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I was thinking they might bring the son back to 2016 with them.

Yeah it is time Flynn started screwing up history with capturing some of these guys and not shooting them all.  A fish out of water Benedict Arnold would have been fun.  And yeah the kid too.

 

1 hour ago, rur said:

I was reminded of that, too. It was a popular idea among many at the time, including Thomas Jefferson. I think the show has Rittenhouse taking the idea of a clock, something with which he was familiar, and then twisting the deistic ideas to fit his philosophy.

This is from a reputable web site: https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/age-jefferson-and-madisonreligion/essays/thomas-jefferson-and-deism

" … the natural world was like a great book, made legible to scientists (or “natural philosophers”) through its predictable and lawful patterns. Enlightened men who discerned nature’s laws could begin to master the world, promoting the improvement of man’s lot and fulfilling God’s original intentions for His creation. Even politics could be reduced to a science, Revolutionary law-givers insisted, as they crafted new constitutions for self-governing peoples in the states and for the federal union. These constitutions were like machines or instruments for determining and enacting the will of a progressively more enlightened political public: they were something like the great clock that the deists’ clockmaker God had set in motion at the beginning of time." 

It think the show has Rittenhouse believing only a chosen few could be enlightened or self-governing, and the rest would remain peasants, moving endlessly with no self-direction,  like the parts of a clock controlled by him.

Rittenhouse wasn't the only one.  Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists and none really trusted us peasants.  Thus we couldn't directly elect our senators originally.  And Deity forbid we could ever popularly elect the president.  No, no an Electoral College composed of the elite must be in place to override our poor choices if needed.  Yes this is the exact philosophy that lead to the Electoral College.

Of course the real David Rittenhouse wasn't this weird conspiracy theory Mason which, according to said conspiracy theories, were the descendants of the European Illuminati which had connections to the Knights Templar and probably the Ancient Aliens that are originally behind EVERYTHING according to wacky hair guy on the History Channel.  (Did you know they invented the wheel for us because we were too dumb to figure out that round things rolled?  If wacky hair guy says it is so who am I, humble peasant, to question him).
.

Edited December 13, 2016 by green

[CooperTV]

The 1700s' clothes on everyone including people that are actually from the 1700s were ridiculous. I couldn't deal with Benedict Arnold's wife lack of cap but when I saw Lucy's almost post-typhoid hair and complete lack of any hat, I thought to myself, "yeah, whatever, I'm done with your historically inaccurate fashions, show".

(But seriously, where are all the hats?!)

I must say, I was mostly bored this episode. I'm really not a fan of Flynn, and Flynn and Rittenhouse combined are just not something I watch this show for. Timeless is at its best when it uses history to create interesting character moments/character development between Team Eyeball and Team Eyeball Support System. So, even though Lucy having a dinner with Agent Christopher was kind of random, it was great and informative without being complete info-dump. The dinner scene was probably one of my favorites alongside with that blink-and-you-miss-it Rufus and Jiya playing videogames.

Speaking of, Rufus was once again MVP of the episode, since Wyatt was just there and Lucy was forced to react to Flynn's terrible monologues and awkward facial expressions. That was some good stuff in that slave camp, and Rufus was absolute badass.

I just knew the Rittenhouse person would have a child of some sort, so Team Eyeball would have to contemplate murdering him thus inadvertently creating the Rittenhouse Illuminati conspiracy across the universe. I mean, Flynn's a complete dummy for such a psycho not to consider the possibility in the first place. I also wonder why they thought killing Rittenhouse would destroy the conspiracy and bring Flynn's family or anyone else back. There's too many variables for that to happen. Also, I'm thinking Wyatt's wife was killed by Rittenhouse, after all, because why bother otherwise.

And oh, Flynn kidnapped Lucy. That happened, I guess?

[green]

Oh yeah forgot to add that I assume the fact the Lucy "bonded" with Kid Rittenhouse this will mean either Rittenhouse becomes more diverse as someone above mentioned regards the female Afro-American doctor from the Watergate episode.  Or Lil' Rittenhouse comes to the future with Rufus and Wyatt because why leave a seat empty though they would have to return from Philadelphia to north of NYC by buckboard to return to their Studebaker version of a time machine so maybe he hides in the buckboard?  Probably not but dammit I want a reverse time traveler accidentally coming back in one of these machines sometime.  If we are screwing up history right and left I want more chaos!

Anyway I'm sure that longish (by TV standards) scene between Lucy and Rittenhouse the Smaller will have some effect.  You don't spend that many minutes on stuff in a 43 minute episode without it meaning something.  It is a set-up just like the Homeland Security lady's dinner and memory thumb drive is too.  You don't have to be a member of an elite clock-maker's guild / conspiracy Masons  / Illuminati / Knights Templar / Ancient Aliens cabal to figure out TV shows and how they are constructed.  Even us peasants can do that.

Also, like someone posted above, no explanation on how Flynn's slick sports model time machine was sitting right outside of Rittenhouse's home.  Can Anthony stay in the fancy time machine and use GPS to track Flynn and make short "same time" hops in it?  And does that mean the GPS satellites are mini-time machines hooked up to the main one too?  Add in the Klingon cloaking device and I so want one for myself now.  Great way to beat the morning rush hour.  Or maybe tweak the timer a bit, get up at noon and still be at the office before everyone else.

Edited December 13, 2016 by green

[AV8n]

Seriously, does no one at Mason Industries use the internet? Google "this day in history" every time Flynn moves and Lucy becomes unnecessary. And if Flynn had googled "Rittenhouse + clock", he would have found that there was indeed a clockmaker with that name in the area who just might be the founder of that organization. Well, "in the area" is a stretch, since it's a good 150 miles from West Point to the Rittenhouse home in Philadelphia.

Now that Flynn knows who Is behind the Rittenhouse org, all he has to do is go back a few years and kill Rittenhouse before he forms the club. Hang the mission accomplished banner and call it a day. Which means that is totally not going to happen.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, Ripley68 said:

This is the first episode I thought they failed with Lucy's hair.

Failed with it?  I'm sure they chased the rats out of it as usual -- do they normally do more?

[Latverian Diplomat]

On 12/12/2016 at 8:25 PM, The Wild Sow said:

Pretty much guessing that's the way it's going to go.

David Rittenhouse (clockmaker, astronomer, philosopher, etc....) was a real guy.  He left 2 daughters; no surviving sons.

ETA:  Oh, OK.....now I get it.....the BAD Rittenhouse is John, not David.  And he managed to erase his own very existence from the all historical records, the better to hide his nefarious fingers in the pie from future historians......like Lucy.  And, you know....us!

Yeah, that's the ticket!

After all, what is the purpose of mercy if not to be shown to be the cause of all our problems? :-(

On 12/13/2016 at 6:31 AM, Maverick said:

 They didn't know Rittenhouse was one man until this episode.  Nothing about the organization is documented.

It's pretty dumb to name your super-secret organization after yourself though. Just ask Peter Know-Nothing, John Ku Klux, and Vito La Cosa Nostra.

22 hours ago, rur said:

I was reminded of that, too. It was a popular idea among many at the time, including Thomas Jefferson. I think the show has Rittenhouse taking the idea of a clock, something with which he was familiar, and then twisting the deistic ideas to fit his philosophy.

 

A truly elegant clock runs without intervention from the Creator (thus Deism). So, the analogy is a bit flawed in the sense that Rittenhouse expects to intervene all the time, apparently. Unless he sees himself (and his society of cronies) as part of the clock he created.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Latverian Diplomat

[vibeology]

I really enjoyed this episode. I think its important that they did some serious damage to history for a change. Arnold doesn't do that much more, but Cornwalis plays a pretty important role in two wars, Rittenhouse did many important official things for America plus all the Illuminati stuff the show is crediting him with and they killed a handful of other people too. It has to matter and that's exciting.

Lucy's hair was awful. I'm no expert on Revolutionary fashions but I knew that looked and was wrong.

I like Flynn. I think he's dumb (seriously what has he been doing this entire time if he doesn't know that there's a guy named Rittenhouse?) and morally wrong but I enjoy him as a character in the story so it was nice to have the team have to spend time with him and see how they all interact. I'm convinced there's more with Flynn and Lucy. He just seems very familiar with her and is too in her personal space. Also, he has that diary so I am curious to what's going to happen now that Flynn has taken her.

I liked watching the trio figure out how to deal with Flynn, how to deal with the recording and what lines they were and weren't willing to cross. Flynn didn't really promise Wyatt his wife, only who the killer was yet for Wyatt that was tempting enough. Lucy and Rufus have family at risk too so I enjoyed seeing how they navigated that problem.

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Unless he sees himself (and his society of cronies) as part of the clock he created.

I'm pretty sure he does. That's probably also why he's teaching his son the craft.

 It has to matter and that's exciting.

Here's hoping we see the effects.

Edited December 13, 2016 by dubbel zout

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed this episode.  I love the Revolutionary War period, so it was great to see this show's interpretation.  Very curious to see what changes get made to present day.  Would be interesting to hear that after Cornwallis and Arnold were brutally killed by spies, France sided with England and the Marquis de Lafayette helped England win the war.  Wyatt and Rufus return to 2016 to find that they are living in Lower Canada, with everyone speaking with an English accent and saying "Hello madam, cheerio, God save the Queen!"

Lucy's costume was awful.  It looked nothing like anything I've ever known to be historically accurate during this period.  I get that she might not be wearing the silk gowns with the poofy sleeves and bustle.  They could explain that they gave her a travelling outfit and that's why it didn't look like a dress you would see at a fancy house party.  But her outfit was completely distracting.  Especially the cape thing.  She looked like Snow White.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, AV8n said:

Seriously, does no one at Mason Industries use the internet? Google "this day in history" every time Flynn moves and Lucy becomes unnecessary. And if Flynn had googled "Rittenhouse + clock", he would have found that there was indeed a clockmaker with that name in the area who just might be the founder of that organization. Well, "in the area" is a stretch, since it's a good 150 miles from West Point to the Rittenhouse home in Philadelphia.

Now that Flynn knows who Is behind the Rittenhouse org, all he has to do is go back a few years and kill Rittenhouse before he forms the club. Hang the mission accomplished banner and call it a day. Which means that is totally not going to happen.

Heheh.  I agree that Mason Industries is too lazy to Google.  However, I don't think Lucy's role on the team is useless.  She knows a lot about history and she can move her way through the various time periods a lot more easily than Wyatt or Rufus, who stick out like a sore thumb due.  Reading about the timeline beforehand isn't the same thing as being able to interact with it like Lucy can.  Rufus didn't even know who Deep Throat was...you want to send him back into the past without Lucy?

What this team needs is a Vulcan.  Seriously, just find someone who can completely detach themselves emotionally from the mission.  I understand they want to help people but they have no concept on how screwing around in the past can cause countless unforeseen circumstances.  They KNOW what happened to Lucy and it doesn't phase them.  Between the body counts and all the history they want to change, they are almost as big a liability as Flynn is.  I love the show and these characters but I wouldn't trust them for a second to carry out these missions because they are too emotionally invested in them.

Agreed that Lucy looked like Snow White in her outfit

[Shanna Marie]

I think in this episode that we really saw that Wyatt's degree of competence is heavily influenced by Flynn's plot armor. When they were fighting on the same side against Rittenhouse's goons, Wyatt was pretty effective. He's just not allowed to damage Flynn in any way.

It also seems like they completely backtracked on any 'shipping that might have been stirred up in the previous episode, given that he was totally focused on the idea of his wife in this one. And, yeah, she was totally a Rittenhouse victim. But you've got to wonder why. Were they trying to make sure Wyatt would be the time traveler? Trying to make sure he wouldn't be an effective one? Was she a Rittenhouse operative about to turn? Someone who stumbled upon something? And was Wyatt chosen because of her?

When Flynn was dragging Lucy off, for a moment I thought he was going to show her something about what became of the kid, like he had pictures in his ship, or maybe even the grown-up version.

Where does Flynn get all his people? Does he hire local time period thugs as soon as he arrives, or is his ship big enough to travel with a brute squad?

[henripootel]

5 hours ago, withanaich said:

I think Agent Christopher realizes that, though, which is why she's making that decision for her alternate reality self. Because this Agent Christopher doesn't want to forget them, and she knows that a different version of herself (oy, this is making my head hurt) would very likely say, "no, don't tell me." 

So this is essentially a 'Fuck you, Alternate Me!  Remember my children!  REMEMBER THEM!'  That's harsh.

9 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Where does Flynn get all his people? Does he hire local time period thugs as soon as he arrives, or is his ship big enough to travel with a brute squad?

Pretty sure I saw something on Craigslist the other day, 'Now hiring.  Meet important historical figures - and kill them!'  It's Flynn. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by henripootel

[dubbel zout]

"Must bring own weapons."

[Ripley68]

The Mother ship is bigger than the lifeboat

[iMonrey]

Quote

They also apparently don't know about Wikipedia or the internet in general.  You have a name, you google the name.

If I do a Wikipedia search for "Rittenhouse" I get five people with that name, five locations with that name, and four "others" which include a train, a ship, a rye whiskey and this TV show. Nothing jumps out at me as the basis for some super secret, all-powerful organization. Now, maybe Flynn should be able to put 2+2 together, but generally speaking we, the audience, know next to nothing about this organization and what it does, or what its agenda is. At first glance I see nothing in the biography of David Rittenhouse to suggest he is the basis for this organization. If I knew more about them I might, but I see no reason for Agent Christopher - for example - to do so. She has literally never heard the name before and has no idea what it is.

[DearEvette]

53 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Where does Flynn get all his people? Does he hire local time period thugs as soon as he arrives, or is his ship big enough to travel with a brute squad?

I always wonder about tv bad guy minions.  Like really, what is in it for you?  Are the benefits that great?  Full Health, dental, college credits and a 401k?  What?  Or do you just like taking orders from megalomaniacs who use you as human bullet shields and will turn on you on a  dime when they get angry? 

[JackONeill]

I really like the leads, though I share some of the same concerns as others: Wyatt's chinny-chin hair, his never-changing but always too-styled-but-too-messy hair, Lucy's sometimes off-hair, and the issue with just how does Rufus fit into the past. And, most importantly, we have eight episodes and our heroes have failed every time. Not good. 

And, in a certain way, I like how there's one main baddie -- but is that Flynn or Rittenhouse? Or both? I like the tenseness of some of the episodes, and though I really liked the Alamo episode, I sometimes have no idea what the point was (particularly the Alamo episode).

I'm left with thinking TPTB need to "redesign" the show and maybe just make this strictly a time travel show (whatever that is) or do away with Flynn and make Rittenhouse the big baddie in that he does things in the past to change the future for his benefit, and the team has to go find what he's done and change it.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Pretty sure I saw something on Craigslist the other day, 'Now hiring.  Meet important historical figures - and kill them!'  It's Flynn. 

Then I hope the guys who were holding Washington hostage were able to go back to the ship, and that's how it conveniently showed up where Flynn needed it. Otherwise, they got stranded in the past when Flynn took off with Lucy. Getting stranded during the American Revolution would be the opposite of an employee benefit.

I was about to say something about the kind of people who could be recruited as minions, but it would probably fall into the category of political discussion.

[henripootel]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I was about to say something about the kind of people who could be recruited as minions, but it would probably fall into the category of political discussion.

I'd like to think it'd be hard to find anybody on either side of our current political brouhaha who'd blithely point a gun at George Freaking Washington.  I'm not much of a believer in the 'big man' theory of history, that some people are simply so unique and seminal to history that it turned on them and them alone.  Washington is one of those exceptions.  If Flynn's goons shot him, honestly and truly, don't go back to 2016 and expect to find a United States you recognize, and very possibly not a United States at all.  Cornwallis was, if memory serves, an able soldier and leader, but I'm sure the Brits can replace him with someone capable.

Quote

Yeah it is time Flynn started screwing up history with capturing some of these guys and not shooting them all.  A fish out of water Benedict Arnold would have been fun.

Ha - that'd be fun.  And it'd totally save BA's rep, as he'd just gotten around to betraying his country.  Not that Arnold would be delighted by being denied a cushy retirement in England, although he'd never know as pretty much only Lucy would ever know this is what was supposed to happen.

Edited December 13, 2016 by henripootel

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, green said:

They also apparently don't know about Wikipedia or the internet in general.  You have a name, you google the name.

Yeah it is time Flynn started screwing up history with capturing some of these guys and not shooting them all.  A fish out of water Benedict Arnold would have been fun.  And yeah the kid too.

Maybe in the Timeless universe there isn't anything on Rittenhouse on Wikipedia?

[Shanna Marie]

10 minutes ago, henripootel said:

I'd like to think it'd be hard to find anybody on either side of our current political brouhaha who'd blithely point a gun at George Freaking Washington.

That's where it looks likely that he throws around enough gold, jewels, or other non era-particular valuables to recruit local time period goons. They won't know that they're threatening someone important to history. In the revolution, it wouldn't have been hard to find loyalists up to the task. Getting someone from 2016 would require finding extremely mercenary sociopaths, unless maybe he's found a group of true believers who are equally driven to eliminate Rittenhouse. But I'm leaning toward local goons, so he doesn't have to worry about getting them home (not that he would, but one group not returning from a mission might make it more challenging to recruit the next group, and there's got to be a limited number of people that driven/mercenary/sociopathic).

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Lucy looking like Little Red Riding Hood (minus the hood) was distracting to me throughout the episode...

Me too!

 

9 hours ago, benteen said:

...I kept thinking that Wyatt should have just popped Flynn at some point...

Me too on this one too. If it was a book, it might have happened since there would be no need to fire an actor.

 

7 hours ago, BooBear said:

I actually thought somehow the kid would get in the CBS eye. Of course... Wyatt could grab the kid to trade with Flynn for Lucy.

I like this so long as the child actor doesn't have too many lines.

[morriss]

Rufus has turned into a stone cold killer .........lol

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Strong episode for GV. 

It really was! I loved all of Flynn's scenes - particularly the ones with Lucy.

Agent Christopher giving the picture of her kids to Lucy was poignant. I'm really liking Sakinah Jaffrey in this role.

Quote

I was disappointed we didn't get a glimpse of the altered present and thought Flynn kidnapping Lucy was a lackluster cliffhanger.

It definitely felt a bit anticlimatic, but now I'm intrigued about where Lucy and Flynn end up and what they do when they get there. And while we're on the subject, how are Rufus and Wyatt going to search for Lucy.

[BooBear]

41 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

It really was! I loved all of Flynn's scenes - particularly the ones with Lucy.

I'm intrigued about where Lucy and Flynn end up and what they do when they get there. 

Kind of seemed like this might be the opportunity for Flynn and Lucy to spend quality time together to form a triangle between Wyatt, Lucy, and Flynn.  Though I do find hard to believe that Lucy could be with such a stone cold killer.

[maraleia]

I really hope they don't kill Agent Christopher's wife due to the timeline changing because then this show will be another one that buries your queer characters.

I love how organic they made her a married lesbian woman with kids. This is how you do diversity folks.

[Bsmith84]

Rittenhouse = Rothschild family ?? Has anybody found this similar association. Rothschild family essentially behind the worlds banking system with ties in every major company you have heard of. A family net worth of $500 Trillion dollars. Yes, trillion...

[legaleagle53]

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

I really enjoyed this episode.  I love the Revolutionary War period, so it was great to see this show's interpretation.  Very curious to see what changes get made to present day.  Would be interesting to hear that after Cornwallis and Arnold were brutally killed by spies, France sided with England and the Marquis de Lafayette helped England win the war.  Wyatt and Rufus return to 2016 to find that they are living in Lower Canada, with everyone speaking with an English accent and saying "Hello madam, cheerio, God save the Queen!"

That would never have happened.  The whole reason that France sided with the revolutionaries in the first place was that France saw it as an irresistible opportunity for payback to the British, who had deprived France of nearly every North American holding she had had during the French and Indian War (or, as it was known in the European theater of that war, the Seven Years' War).  In other words, France sided with the colonists not out of any real sympathy for their cause but more as a way to give Britain the middle finger.  It would make no sense for the French to switch sides and support a centuries-old enemy that had completely screwed them over time and time again, most recently less than 30 years earlier.

[TV Anonymous]

So this is the moment Benedict Arnold defected to the British? Where is Major Tallmadge? Where is Major André? Where is Arnold's "Blade on the feather..." command? :-)

If we are talking about period costume, WTH does Flynn wear a wrist watch? It is very obvious every time his sleeve is pulled back.

Edited December 14, 2016 by TV Anonymous

[Netfoot]

11 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

In other words, France sided with the colonists not out of any real sympathy for their cause but more as a way to give Britain the middle finger.

True, but the last time France and her middle finger were anything but a laughing-stock to the British, was 1066.  

[legaleagle53]

12 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

True, but the last time France and her middle finger were anything but a laughing-stock to the British, was 1066.  

That's why the French couldn't pass up the opportunity for payback starting in 1775.  There's no way they would have sided with the British during the American Revolution.  Helping the colonists win their independence was France's way of collecting what she saw as a long-overdue debt from the British -- with interest.

[EyewatchTV211]

45 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

So this is the moment Benedict Arnold defected to the British? Where is Major Tallmadge? Where is Major André? Where is Arnold's "Blade on the feather..." command? :-)

If we are talking about period costume, WTH does Flynn wear a wrist watch? It is very obvious every time his sleeve is pulled back.

I actually missed the Turn actors here even though it's a different show. Guess the actors have almost become the actual people to me. You are probably just referring to the history and not the other show, but it made me think of all of them. The actors here were fine, but somewhat lacked the gravitas I've come to feel for the Turn GW and BA. And Peggy Shippen was just there. I tend to love any Revolutionary War stuff, but it was just okay here.

Add me to the list who thought Lucy looked like Red Riding Hood.

[blackwing]

27 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

That's why the French couldn't pass up the opportunity for payback starting in 1775.  There's no way they would have sided with the British during the American Revolution.  Helping the colonists win their independence was France's way of collecting what she saw as a long-overdue debt from the British -- with interest.

We are talking about a hypothetical alternate history.  If we are willing to accept that time travel exists and that saving one person in history who should have died ends up wiping out the existence of another... anything can happen.  I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that after the murders of Cornwallis and Arnold, that the English people are so outraged that they launch a massive propaganda effort across Europe and scare the rest of Europe by saying that if these savage Americans can so brutally murder two generals, what is to stop other colonies from imitating them and rising up.  I think it is entirely possible that France could have been convinced to work with England to stop the upstart colonists.  It could have been in their interests too.  England could have offered to give France their parts of Canada back.

Italy was allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary at the start of World War I, then changed sides and joined with Britain, France and Russia.  Then Italy of course sided with Germany in WW II.   Allegiances can turn on a dime.

Even in this show.   Given the premise of the show I don't think many of us would have expected Flynn to work with the team, ever.  Yet it happened.  History can turn on a dime.

[steelyis]

I really liked this episode until the end. I kept thinking, "Take the kid with you, Flynn!" Then he took Lucy and I face palmed so hard.

Edited December 14, 2016 by steelyis

[Cthulhudrew]

I like this show, and I really appreciate that they ran with the "would you miss these people if you didn't even know they existed?" idea (Arrow and Flash, take note!). I did crack up at this exchange, though:

"You two look for Flynn, I'll look for the boy!" Umm... if Flynn's also looking for the boy, then couldn't you all just stay together and do both? lol

When Lucy talked about all the events Rittenhouse was involved in, I started to wonder if it will turn out that Rittenhouse (he/it) actually screwed up history with the time machine originally, and Lucy and everyone else was living in that altered timeline and are now "setting right what once went wrong?" Such as perhaps Lucy never having been meant to have had a sister in the first place? 

And then when we see the real Rittenhouse, it will turn out to be Scott Bakula. Or maybe Dean Stockwell. :D

Edited December 14, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[benteen]

7 hours ago, henripootel said:

Pretty sure I saw something on Craigslist the other day, 'Now hiring.  Meet important historical figures - and kill them!'  It's Flynn. 

Gold star!

"Meet historical figures but not Wesley Snipes."

 

Back to what someone else said, it would be fun to take one of these people from the past with them to the future.

Edited December 14, 2016 by benteen

[MisterGlass]

7 hours ago, benteen said:

What this team needs is a Vulcan.  Seriously, just find someone who can completely detach themselves emotionally from the mission.

They could definitely use some objectivity.

And it would seem they need to be wary of Feringi. 

10 hours ago, CooperTV said:

(But seriously, where are all the hats?!)

Oh good, it wasn't just me thinking that.

[Quilt Fairy]

23 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I was expecting them to get back to the present and land in an empty warehouse because if Rittenhouse never existed they couldn't have funded Mason and he couldn't have built the time machine.

In that case, wouldn't the lifeboat disappear entirely leaving them stranded in 1780?  Or do the machines exist in a bubble outside the normal stream of time?  It's one of those lovely time-travel conundrums that you have to make a decision about.

 

30 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

"You two look for Flynn, I'll look for the boy!" Umm... if Flynn's also looking for the boy, then couldn't you all just stay together and do both? lol

Bingo. That made no sense whatsoever.

30 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

And then when we see the real Rittenhouse, it will turn out to be Scott Bakula. Or maybe Dean Stockwell. :D

I tell you, Dr. Sam Beckett would be able to show them "how to make right what once went wrong"! He had so much practice.  And of course, the damn show (Quantum Leap, if you're not following) left him stranded in time, so anything's possible.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[green]

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Maybe in the Timeless universe there isn't anything on Rittenhouse on Wikipedia?

Or even a Wikipedia period since they never can figure out what is going on during any day in history without asking Lucy and sometimes she is clueless.

[Infie]

I really enjoyed this episode.

My big 'wtf' though was - they land near West Point, travel for a day to reach Rittenhouse's place, and the Mothership is in Rittenhouse's backyard?  Does it travel on a little magical leash?

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, Infie said:

I really enjoyed this episode.

My big 'wtf' though was - they land near West Point, travel for a day to reach Rittenhouse's place, and the Mothership is in Rittenhouse's backyard?  Does it travel on a little magical leash?

That was Fynn's ship in the backyard, not the trio's, right?

Every week when they return to the uncloaked and yet not vandalized orb, I get (virtual) flashbacks to Stargate SG1's cloaked time travel ship. 

[Infie]

  50 minutes ago, Infie said:

I really enjoyed this episode.

My big 'wtf' though was - they land near West Point, travel for a day to reach Rittenhouse's place, and the Mothership is in Rittenhouse's backyard?  Does it travel on a little magical leash?

That was Fynn's ship in the backyard, not the trio's, right?

Every week when they return to the uncloaked and yet not vandalized orb, I get (virtual) flashbacks to Stargate SG1's cloaked time travel ship. 

It was Flynn's ship, but they went to West Point because that's where the Mothership had landed...

[bros402]

14 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Lucy looking like Little Red Riding Hood (minus the hood) was distracting to me throughout the episode. As always, the hairstyles of Wyatt and Lucy are sore thumbs (Rufus actually seems to blend better throughout), but the story itself was fun, especially as I enjoyed AMC's series "Turn", and seeing the different (and far less attractive) re-casts was amusing.

  When Lucy was at what's-her-name's home at the beginning, I wanted her to at least point out that the loss of her sister is NOT fun for her, and maybe, if you are a part of the new timeline, like her mother, you don't experience the "loss of a child", because it never actually happened to you. The woman's family would be an interesting bit of facts for her in  new timeline, but would have no emotional resonance.

  I know Arnold and Cornwallis were of historical import, but I want the timeline to be changed significantly because the two red-coated red shirts were killed. We peasants (as Little Rittenhouse called us) probably have as much significance on the timeline as the named folks.

  I hope Flynn isn't going to take Lucy up on that whole fatherhood thing she was selling him.

 

Oh my god I was thinking the same thing about Lucy looking like Little Red Riding Hood.

[thuganomics85]

Quark!  Even without the Ferengi make-up, I can so tell in all of Rittenhouse's scenes, that was Armin Shimerman!  I always enjoying seeing an actor I mainly know as some kind of alien on Star Trek, playing a human.  He was fantastic in the role; kind of bummed that he's already gone.  But I had a feeling that they were going for the whole "They try to kill Rittenhouse, but twist!  It's actually the son who actually makes Rittenhouse what it is, now!" thing.  Kind of reminded me of Twilight Zone reboot years ago, where Katherine Heigl was sent to kill Hitler as a baby, and it just ends with the nanny taking a beggar's baby to replace him, and that's how the "real Hitler" became who he was.  Got to love time travel!

The actors playing on the historical characters were good, even though anytime I see a Revolutionary War character now, I keep having to get use to them not being played by the same actors who play them on Turn: Washington Spies.

Anyway, got the classic "Heroes have to team up with the seasonal villain" episode, and I guess Benedict Arnold is as good of a choice as any to present a united front (although, you really can never go wrong with Hitler as your main baddie, but maybe that will be season finale time...)  And, man, did they fuck up the timeline.  Benedict Arnold dead before his time?  Flynn caps Cornwallis?!  Yeah, there better be lasting consequences after this clusterfuck.  That's pretty damn big right there.

Whose idea was it to have Lucy rock the whole Snow White look?

Yeah, the "You two look for Flynn!  I'll look for the boy!" line was dumb.  How hard would it have been for her to just say "You two go left, I'll go right!"?

Nice to see Rufus and Jiya have gotten to the "Kick each other's butts in video games!" stage of their relationship, assuming it doesn't always win with a tipsy Mason killing the buzz.  Speaking of Mason, is "more power to him" response to Flynn helping the British win earned a decent chuckles.

Lucy gets to meet Christopher's wife, and is given a hard drive to put in the ship, in case something happens that makes Christopher forget about her family.  Hope that doesn't happen!

Decent cliffhanger, with Flynn dragging Lucy off on his ship, and it still being unclear what in the hell is going to happen after this particular journey.

[Ariah]

I'm loving this show more and more, big plot holes and idiot balls being thrown around notwithstanding!

Rittenhouse Original, what a sleazy bad-guy! Complete with 'bring her to my bedchamber' line. Too bad he wasn't around longer. I would love to have him for a two-parter.

The things that make me go 'hmmmm': couldn't Lucy just drop like a dead lump to the ground and force Flynn into dragging her / or carrying her / instead of trotting reluctantly in his wake? I mean yes, there was a risk he would shoot her, but on the other hand, he's still surprisingly non-aggressive towards her. It could work.

Wyatt needs to teach the team some basic self-defense. Kick to the groin? Something, anything!

- - -

Anyhow, looking forward to next episode. I want the boys to be back ready to search for Lucy and the guys at the headquarters asking: "Who's Lucy?"

[JackONeill]

For you time-traveling experts out there, and those who are paying attention to the nitty gritty details of this show:

Didn't they say that the time machine can only hold three people? And we know the old dude is Flynn's pilot (although he's seen in only a few episodes)(so, I guess he stays in the capsule catching up on Stargate SG 1 episodes).

Flynn usually has a henchling with him, but, again, we didn't see one this episode. And is that convenient, because if he did have one, he would had to leave him behind in order to take Lucy, right?

Another question, does the mother ship have to go back to the present immediately after its mission, or can it stop somewhere else? Could Flynn stop on the way back to the present and drop Lucy off in, say, 1888? (Just curious.)

[Haleth]

I'm pretty much watching only because I'm interested in how Flynn and Lucy are related.  We know they aren't mother/son or father/daughter, but there is something that connects them in the future.

Ditto about the lack of a cap or hat for Lucy.  Scandalous.  Ditto on being incredulous that Flynn hadn't bothered with google and didn't known that Rittenhouse was a person.  And ditto in thinking the kid is obviously going to continue his father's legacy.  It would serve the eyeball team right if John seeing his father shot makes him even worse and when they return to the present find themselves in a fascist US.  (Of course that would suck for us.)  The other thing that bothered me was the American accent for Washington and Arnold.

7 hours ago, Infie said:

My big 'wtf' though was - they land near West Point, travel for a day to reach Rittenhouse's place, and the Mothership is in Rittenhouse's backyard?  Does it travel on a little magical leash?

Maybe it's some GPS doohickey in his watch that allows Flynn to summon his ship?  Looks like Wyatt and Rufus have to travel back to WP.

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

We are talking about a hypothetical alternate history.  If we are willing to accept that time travel exists and that saving one person in history who should have died ends up wiping out the existence of another... anything can happen.  I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that after the murders of Cornwallis and Arnold, that the English people are so outraged that they launch a massive propaganda effort across Europe and scare the rest of Europe by saying that if these savage Americans can so brutally murder two generals, what is to stop other colonies from imitating them and rising up.  I think it is entirely possible that France could have been convinced to work with England to stop the upstart colonists.  It could have been in their interests too.  England could have offered to give France their parts of Canada back.

Eh, it was the middle of a war.  People get shot and die.  Yeah, it was uncivilized of those brutish colonial spies to kill the generals (so rude), but it happens. 

9 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Where is Major Tallmadge? Where is Major André?

Indeed!  They did it better on Turn.

[withanaich]

Quote

And, most importantly, we have eight episodes and our heroes have failed every time. Not good. 

But remember, they have two missions: 1) capture/kill Flynn and 2) stop him from screwing up the past. They've obviously failed in that first mission but they were able to stop him from achieving his goal on nearly every trip, even though a few things got changed because of his/their interference. For example, the passengers on the Hindenburg lived, but the trio was able to keep Flynn from killing the leaders he was targeting instead. So I don't think we can consider them a complete failure. 

Quote

I really hope they don't kill Agent Christopher's wife due to the timeline changing because then this show will be another one that buries your queer characters.

I was pretty sure they were going to kill her off when she started looking into Rittenhouse and they showed her talking all lovingly to her kid on the phone. When they revealed that she was gay (although I agree that it was done very organically), I literally groaned, like, oh shit they’re gonna kill off another lesbian. I really hope I’m wrong and the show is faking us out.

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

For you time-traveling experts out there, and those who are paying attention to the nitty gritty details of this show:

Didn't they say that the time machine can only hold three people? And we know the old dude is Flynn's pilot (although he's seen in only a few episodes)(so, I guess he stays in the capsule catching up on Stargate SG 1 episodes).

Flynn usually has a henchling with him, but, again, we didn't see one this episode. And is that convenient, because if he did have one, he would had to leave him behind in order to take Lucy, right?

Another question, does the mother ship have to go back to the present immediately after its mission, or can it stop somewhere else? Could Flynn stop on the way back to the present and drop Lucy off in, say, 1888? (Just curious.)

They said the Lifeboat can only hold three people. I don't think they specified how many the Mothership can hold, but it doesn't appear to be much bigger. (Unless it's, you know, bigger on the inside...) I don't know if they're talking about the physical constraints, the number of seats/seat belts (it looks like more than three humans could technically be crammed inside, but maybe it's a basic safety issue), or if there's some physics-related reason (like you can't bring back more organic matter than you took with you). It's probably not that last one, because that would be far too complicated for this show. But yes, according to the rules of the show, Flynn would have to strand one of his henchmen to bring Lucy in their place (assuming the ship was full of passengers when he arrived in the past and he's not just recruiting goons when he gets there).  

I don't believe they've addressed whether or not either ship has to come directly back to the present after a trip. I think the Lifeboat might have to, in order to recharge/refuel, but of course Flynn doesn't have that problem anymore.

[Ripley68]

The mothership is bigger. In the first episode at least 4 people get in it at the beginning, Flynn, Trashcan Man and 2 goons.  Until this last episode, The team have only actually "failed" one mission - getting the key from Bonnie.  Yes, events they've gone back to haven't happened like we know, but they still basically happened and didn't cause any catastrophic changes. The biggest change they had was the Hindenburg (people survived who shouldn't have), and there wasn't much more they could have done unless they tackled the rope guys and made them drop the ropes so they got grounded....or shot it.  I think shooting a balloon full of people to maintain history would be a lot harder though.  Nothing changed historically because of the Lincoln and Alamo adventures (yes, the actual events are different, but from history's view, time marched on as we know it), but no one survived or died who shouldn't have.

I thought Lucy looked like Snow White. It distracted me through the whole episode.

[basiltherat]

Yup, Team Eyeball can hold a perimeter about as well as 24 does!