S01.E02: Fair Game

[Jamoche]

  9 hours ago, jrlr said:

  19 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

they actually believe that an alien Zenu populated Earth by seeding volcanoes as a prison planet

Can someone please explain how a crackpot cult that believes in aliens got granted tax exempt church status?  

[Lawyer hat]
From a purely legal perspective, courts try not to get into the business of evaulating the tenets of particular faiths - that pesky first amendment prohibits it. It's only when those tenets come into conflict with *other* fundamental rights* that they're required to balance them (aka - the right to be free from racial discrimination) - this is why, say, Bob Jones University could be threatened with loss of its tax exempt status for being racist. But that's a really narrow set of circumstances.

*fundamental rights are not what "you or I" would think of as fundamental, but in this case, a specific set of rights defined by the constitution as interpreted by the supreme court. Generally, most (but not all!) of the rights set forth in the bill of rights are considered fundamental, and have been determined to be applicable to the state via the 14th amendment
[/lawyer hat]

From a less-legalistic perspective, scientologists basically blackmailed the IRS via operation snow white.

Plus at the time all the Xenu stuff was only known to the people so deep into it that they didn't talk - from the outside it was just another self-help talk therapy variation.

[verysimple]

  21 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

(Why can't I delete a quote if I change my mind - got to be a better way to do this).

Lordonia - that's an excellent and valid point, considering their past behaviors.  However, if they even attempted to intimidate the plaintiffs' lawyers, those guys (CO$) and their attorneys would be hauled in front of a judge and a request for SANCTIONS would be made and probably a request for a gag order granted.   You'd be amazed how pissed off judges get when litigants try to mess with personnel involved in their court proceedings.  If you think Judge Judy or Judge Milian gets pissed, wait till you see a REAL judge go after a dirtbag litigant.  

Judge Judy and Milan are real judges in small claims court.  

not really - Someone like "Judge Judy" was a judge at one point, but when she got the show, she retired from being an actual judge and she is officially an arbitrator. those court shows are actually, from a legal perspective, arbitration proceedings, not court proceedings, which is why they have so few procedural standards and can't be appealed.

Also, a little secret? the main reason people agree to go on those shows is that everyone gets paid an appearance fee, and the show pays the judgments, not the "litigants". so your dispute may be real, but you basically get out of the consequences of your actions by performing for the cameras for 15 minutes.

[Wings]

1 minute ago, verysimple said:

not really - Someone like "Judge Judy" was a judge at one point, but when she got the show, she retired from being an actual judge and she is officially an arbitrator. those court shows are actually, from a legal perspective, arbitration proceedings, not court proceedings, which is why they have so few procedural standards and can't be appealed.

Also, a little secret? the main reason people agree to go on those shows is that everyone gets paid an appearance fee, and the show pays the judgments, not the "litigants". so your dispute may be real, but you basically get out of the consequences of your actions by performing for the cameras for 15 minutes.

And they fly you and pay for your hotel and food!   I didn't know they got paid, I did know they paid the judgment no matter who it favored. 

They get pissy just as they would when they were on the bench though! 

[Trampolina]

Judge Judy was an incredible family court judge for years in NYC.  Seeing her on 60 Minutes in the 90's was one of the things that pushed me towards a career in juvenile justice.

I would love to see Miscavige have to face criminal charges for the amazing amount of human suffering he's caused over the years.

[mjstrick]

I waffle a bit on Rinder.  For those who don't know much of him prior to last night's show, I guess it's easy to judge his affect or think he's not sorry, etc.  I guess I feel that he and some of the other former Scienos who were upper echelon Sea Org members are trying to help others as a way of atoning for some of their hideous actions in the past.   Nearly every story I've read of people who blew involved them walking/running away with absolutely nothing.  Zilch.  That's got to be the most terrifying thing ever.  Rinder said last night that he actually called a former member who he had personally harrassed and stalked and defamed for help, and the man readily offered it.  We as outsiders may think to ourselves, "if he called me for help after everything he did to me, I'd tell him to go to Hell."    

Hell, I can't figure out how to say what I want to say.  This stuff just confuses me.   

[spiderpig]

23 minutes ago, mjstrick said:

 Hell, I can't figure out how to say what I want to say.  This stuff just confuses me.   

I know what you're saying, mjstrick.  It's nearly impossible to see how otherwise intelligent adults can fall for this crap, let alone imagine what it's like to be a child brought up in such a toxic environment.  What must their vision of the outside world be like?  What makes them reach the breaking point where they just bolt?

Rinder's a case in point.  Indoctrinated as a child. Rose to what appears to be hitman status. Bolts in his 50s.  Did he see the handwriting on the wall?

[Carolina Girl]

49 minutes ago, Trampolina said:

Judge Judy was an incredible family court judge for years in NYC.  Seeing her on 60 Minutes in the 90's was one of the things that pushed me towards a career in juvenile justice.

I would love to see Miscavige have to face criminal charges for the amazing amount of human suffering he's caused over the years.

So would I.   Miscavige is as much a walking RICO prosecution as any of heads of New York's five families.  

[Wings]

Tom is a big fish in a very small pond. Yeah he and Shorty Micavich are rich, so what.  They have no credibility oudide CO$.  They are not as powerful as they think. Bastards to defectors, that is all the control they have.

I doubt Tom and his production company is viewed with respect. The CO$ celebs have nothing to do with him.  pffffffft. 

I wish those who are being harassed would stand up to the goons sent to get them. 

I would love to see Tom kidnapped and tortured. I am being kind since it tis the season after all.  More on this in January. :^)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Leah Remini: Scientology And The Aftermath Making The Church Seem Less Scary By Showing Sea Org-ers Using Flip Phones?

And more not-quite-burning questions about 'Fair Game.'

[Kostgard]

On 12/7/2016 at 7:29 AM, Al Lowe said:

Things I want to know:

More about The Hole! I read about it in Going Clear and everything, but I still don't understand exactly WTF is going on with that. Like, do people consigned to The Hole FOR YEARS come out every day and go to work and then go back and have nonstop Fight Club every night before sleeping on the floor? Or do they literally stay inside a trailer 24/7, eating slop and beating each other up? How do they survive any scenario? How is he even walking around like a normal person after that? How, now that the reality of it has been made public, has there not been some kind of FBI takedown of this place?

Also, how are all these uneducated people any good at ANYthing? How is their security so good? Their financial scheme? None of them even went to high school!

That is my biggest question too - these people have little-to-no education and lived most of their lives in a very insulated world. How do they function and support themselves when they get out? I'm sure some, like Amy Scobee, have family who help/support them when they leave. I don't know what the people who have no one on the outside do. Rinder mentioned working at a car dealership, and I can see how he could use the pushiness that made him a good Scientology enforcer to sell cars, but it still must not be easy for most people.

 

I do hope they explore The Hole and the whole RPF thing in a future episode. Wasn't Leah herself sent for punishment after stepping out of line at the TomKat wedding? Maybe they'll talk about all the punishment programs when she brings that up. 

 

As for Travolta, I think he fears Disconnect more than whatever is in his file. I mean, what could be in that file? Did he kill a hobo with a hammer in his youth? I suspect the "dirt" that is in there would most likely deal with his alleged homosexuality. And I don't think coming out would total destroy his career like it might have back in the 80s or 90s, so that's a big "who cares". 

But his wife, Kelly Preston, is BIG into Scientology, and you can bet your bippy that if he left, she would disconnect and take their kids with her and then Travolta would never see them again. I suspect that is what keeps him in more than anything else. I thought I heard a few years back that Travolta had started to speak out about the church operated (basically speaking out against things like Fair Game and Disconnection and other punishments), but they shut him up fairly quickly. I think Travolta may be someone who believes in the "tech" but doesn't like the way Miscavige runs things. But if he fights against that, he'll be declared an SP and separated from his children.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Kostgard

[Jade Foxx]

1 hour ago, Kostgard said:

with his alleged homosexuality. 

1 hour ago, Kostgard said:

if he fights against that, he'll be declared an SP and separated from his children.

BINGO!

[Slovenly Muse]

2 hours ago, Kostgard said:

As for Travolta, I think he fears Disconnect more than whatever is in his file. I mean, what could be in that file? Did he kill a hobo with a hammer in his youth?

Don't forget too that these auditing sessions (and the notes kept from them) are not always about THIS life. Scientologists often talk in auditing sessions about things they imagine or dream about, that they are then told happened to them in a past life. That's how they keep you on the hook - after you go through every moment of your life with them, they push you to make up some traumatic bullshit so that you can get to work "clearing" your PAST lives (in a brutally expensive and never-ending process). They could be holding things over his head that he never did, but is on record talking about doing AS IF he did. Or may even believe he's responsible for doing, just not in this lifetime (which may not be a meaningful distinction for Scientologists). And given that if either he or Cruise ever made a public break from the "church" it would be completely DISASTROUS for the CO$ (might even finally topple them), it's likely they're holding on to him with EVERYTHING they've got.

As for Rinder, I don't think we can ever know just what kind of man he is, or how he feels about the things he went along with in the CO$, but really the point of this episode, I believe, was not to have a Mike Rinder pity party, but to illustrate the lengths the "church" will go to when a high-profile member attempts to leave. All that nasty shit has happened to him (and through him), and he's not afraid of their continued harassment, so he's kind of the perfect example to publicize, regardless of whether or not you believe that he's a good or bad man. Just remember that all the stuff they're doing to him, they're also doing to others, people who didn't do the things he did, and who just want their lives and families back. This is how they operate.

I'm down a peg on Remini, however. I was on the fence during the last episode, but her artful tears here during Rinder's story (a story she must have heard a million times already, travelling with him and preparing this show) rang so false and "performed." It was really disappointing. What a distraction from the story she's trying to tell.

Hope next week is a little more impressive. It's the money episode, so how can it not be?

[MaryPatShelby]

Two sort of off-topic shallow things.  I hate Leah's fingernails - what IS the purpose of them being filed to a point? - and her immovable upper lip. So distracting.   And LRH - I am always amazed at how really awful his teeth were.

[Cherry Cola]

On 12/11/2016 at 10:14 AM, MaryPatShelby said:

Two sort of off-topic shallow things.  I hate Leah's fingernails - what IS the purpose of them being filed to a point? - and her immovable upper lip. So distracting.   And LRH - I am always amazed at how really awful his teeth were.

Yes! Leah's nails are creepy looking.  Maybe they are for protection.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by Sgt Pepper

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Yes! Leah's nails are creepy looking.  Maybe they are for protection.  

Its a stupid "trend" that has been around for a while. I will never get it but I had thought it had died out. Not sure how it is now but used to be that some would do it with one nail only for snort their drugs from. Knew a guy in high school that had one on each hand like that. SMH

[Pollock]

On 07/12/2016 at 0:14 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Marty's out doing his thing, but I'm not sure what it is.  Like Rinder, he lost his wife when he left the cult, and even children (if he had them).  Both Marty's and Rinder's wives were sent onto CNN, or some other interview show, to trash their ex-husbands as incompetent, mentally ill, evil, etc.  Marty has a new wife (I'm not sure about kids).  Since it's difficult for ex-CO$ to sue the church, as his wife was never a member, she sued for long-term harassment.  I don't know how that resulted.

Not well. They settled recently after firing their lawyers in truly bizarre circumstances. There is a lot of speculations about what really happened and why Rathbun caved like that after years of fight. Worse, he seems to have turned his back on people who fought with him like Ortega or Rinder. He disowned also the recent Louis Theroux's documentary (good stuff if you can see it!) in which he's the central character and Louis's guide through the mechanisms of the cult. Louis seemed to have push some buttons and triggered some things because Marty appears more and more unhinged as the documentary progresses. It's kind of scary to see really, you can feel how much Marty was traumatized and how much the Church has planted deep roots in his persona. 
Really, if you fail to see how an adult can fall for this shit, watch the Theroux's piece. It broke my heart for Rathbun, who I always liked despite being kind of an asshole. If Rinder accepts and apologizes for what he did, Marty doesn't, or at least I've never read him or seen him do it (I may have missed it), he's clinging to the "I was brainwashed" excuses, which is true but I always assumed he had some fear of being held liable in the eyes of the law one day. Now, after My Scientology Movie, I really think the brainwashing thing is more deep that I ever thought. 

[Wings]

It is alarming how easy it is to brainwash someone. 

I have nothing but respect for all who defect from COS and speak out in whatever way they are able. I believe Leah's tears are sincere. it must be very easy for her to access her pain since she lived it.  Other's stories trigger her memory. 

Going Clear did not  bring COS to ruin so I don't expect this series to have any effect, either, unfortunately. It may make future recruiting more difficult though! 

It will probably dwindle as time goes on. When we see some of their property go up for sale, that will signal the beginning of the end. 

I have a black desire for Cruise to have an epic fail of some kind to cripple his cash flow and fall into disfavor with the public to a grand degree. You have to get the head of the snake. 

[chickflick]

For more about growing up in the church and having no life skills, read Remini's book - she goes into that for a couple of chapters. I think Kate Bornstein's book about her life in Scientology might go into that a little too.

[spiderpig]

On 12/9/2016 at 4:49 PM, Kostgard said:

But his wife, Kelly Preston, is BIG into Scientology, and you can bet your bippy that if he left, she would disconnect and take their kids with her and then Travolta would never see them again. I suspect that is what keeps him in more than anything else. I thought I heard a few years back that Travolta had started to speak out about the church operated (basically speaking out against things like Fair Game and Disconnection and other punishments), but they shut him up fairly quickly. I think Travolta may be someone who believes in the "tech" but doesn't like the way Miscavige runs things. But if he fights against that, he'll be declared an SP and separated from his children.

Tin foil hat time here, but didn't Kelly have a child from a previous marriage who was disabled and she abandoned to her parents or something?  Any reference has been expunged from IMDB.  

I've never liked her since her (fake) engagement to George Clooney, which supposedly left him brokenhearted.  As if.  She's always come across as a cold opportunist.

Maybe it's just me.  (Not really.)

[Court]

Yes, she did. I've read that the parents sued for custody because she refused to give needed medication. It's bizarre that he was on the IMDB page for both her and ex-husband and then it was changed to no children. 

[Wings]

6 hours ago, Court said:

Yes, she did. I've read that the parents sued for custody because she refused to give needed medication. It's bizarre that he was on the IMDB page for both her and ex-husband and then it was changed to no children. 

Wow.  Who was her first husband?  

[Court]

Kevin Gage. 

[FairyDusted]

Thank you for the name COURT! Down the rabbit hole I go!

[fastiller]

From p.tv's recap"

Quote

 

Can we talk about a hypothetical Mike Rinder biopic?

Though I knew who Rinder was, I didn't know about his backstory. And what a cinematic tale! His parents were early converts to the church -- and in Australia, where attempts were made as early as the mid-'60s to ban it. Rinder was groomed to be an executive and married a fellow Sea Org member, eventually having two children who were born into the church, are still active members, and have denounced their father on camera in Scientology-produced videos. After leaving Scientology, Rinder managed to maintain a relationship with his mother, Barbara Jean, which worked because they never discussed Scientology, though even that ended when he participated in "The Truth Rundown," a groundbreaking exposé. Barbara Jean never communicated with Rinder again, and no one in his family even told him when she passed away.

...I see Russell Crowe in the lead.

 

Me too, 100%.  The accent's already built-in.  In my version of the bio-pic, MR goes full-on vengeance mode, so RC'll need to beef himself up.

[millennium]

This series is remarkably dull.   Neither Remini nor any of the people she visits with are particularly engaging.   I guess that's real life vs. actors but I found myself nodding off a few times, or needing to reverse the DVR having missed something because my thoughts were wandering.  Plus, is any of this really shocking anymore?   People have been coming forward for years telling the same horror stories more or less.

[bubbly]

I'm so conflicted.  We were audited and legit hassled by the IRS a few years ago and I completely despise the agency, so reading about a group that broke them fills me with a spiteful satisfaction.  I'm going to go take a shower now cause I feel filthy. Ugh.

[SunnyBeBe]

I find the people who are telling their stories riveting.  While people have told stories before, I've never seen it coming from VERY high people in the COS.  Plus, they are articulate and candid.  Maybe, you have to really enjoy documentaries.  I've loved documentaries my entire life, so this format suits me.  

What I find particularly enjoyable, is when Leah reads aloud a statement that the COS has written that denounces her and her guests.  She puts it out there as if to show that she has nothing to hide. She's not even intimated or afraid of their words. She clearly reads it on HER SHOW.  Brilliant, imo. 

Edited December 26, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:39 PM, 3girlsforus said:

I wonder why the scientology people don't realize that terrorizing people who leave in this bat shit crazy way actually bolsters the credibility of those they are harassing.  It's not the way to paint someone as a disgruntled liar. 

The thing is that Scientology has things to hide.

Their litigiousness kept people quiet for a very long time.  The Time magazine thing being the one that probably made the media sweat. 

Then South Park went after them and didn't get sued.  That exposed that David Miscavige and Tom Cruise had too much to hide to get deposed and lawsuits weren't that big a fear anymore to keep people quiet.

Then they tried to use their celebrity power to keep the reruns of "Trapped in the Closet" off the air and it backfired.  First South Park hit them with the Zenu press release.  Then finally, Stone gave  an ultimatum which was basically show the rerun or the relationship between Comedy Central/Viacom/Paramount was over as soon as contracts ended.  They picked South Park over Tom Cruise.

That is a long way of saying that South Park not only took away lawsuits as a weapon to maintain silence.  It took away Cruise's star power as a weapon.  It basically killed the idea that they could destroy the career of celebrities who were anti-scientology or left because they couldn't even keep a rerun that mocked Tom Cruise off the air.

They are using bat shit crazy ways to try to keep people silent because they don't have anything else left to try to intimidate people into silence.

I'm actually a little surprised that someone hasn't hit on the idea of creating some sort of non-profit org whose sole purpose is to support litigation against Scientology for these tactics on a pro bono basis.

One thing I think is interesting that wasn't really touched on.

Mike Rinder was the one that went to Cruise's agents and made them throw their weight around to get the reruns of "Trapped in the Closet" pulled.  Ultimately making Scientology more of a laughingstock and likely bruising Cruises' ego over Paramount choosing a cartoon show and its creators over him.  Rinder also led the OSA investigation on Matt Stone and Trey Parker and all their friends and associates (including people like John Stamos) and even tried to send in a mole to work as an intern.  Within a year of that happening, Rinder left Scientology.  Given how Miscavige retaliates against those that fail him I wonder how responsible South Park was for Rinder's decision to leave. 

[cynicat]

ParadoxLost, your avatar is outstanding.

[green]

Amazing that the South Park duo of all people on this planet were the ones that first brought this cult to their knees.  Who knew that Cruise would quake before Cartman.

But it has always been my belief that humor more than any other approach brings bad guys down quicker than anything else in the world.  These people have no way to fight against humor since they lack it totally themselves.  And make them a laughing stock instead of a feared group you have to suit up in armor to fight and everyone happily piles on against them.

Edited December 27, 2016 by green

[fastiller]

34 minutes ago, green said:

Amazing that the South Park duo of all people on this planet were the ones that first brought this cult to their knees.  Who knew that Cruise would quake before Cartman.

But it has always been my belief that humor more than any other approach brings bad guys down quicker than anything else in the world.  These people have no way to fight against humor since they lack it totally themselves.  And make them a laughing stock instead of a feared group you have to suit up in armor to fight and everyone happily piles on against them.

For further evidence of this (these examples aren't Co$ related): it was largely Hannibal Burress (sp?) who got Bill Cosby into the headlines for his rapey ways (preceded by another comedian: Tina Fey) and Jerry Sadowitz did the same thing for Jimmy Savile over in England.

[Wings]

Come on SNL, your turn! 

[FairyDusted]

Pretty please! Us Preverts have been snarky good all year long! 

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

Come on SNL, your turn! 

That reminded me of this that SNL did after the Going Clear documentary came out.

[Maizie131]

10 hours ago, Moose Andsquirrel said:

That reminded me of this that SNL did after the Going Clear documentary came out.

Thanks for posting link to video, Moose.  Viewed well over 2 million times!  Wow.  Be sure to read the comments under video.  One that struck me the most was:

"This video is hilarious until you realize that Scientology actually does that to people. They get away with abusive and sadistic practices because of their status as a religion." 

[Neurochick]

On 12/26/2016 at 9:39 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Then they tried to use their celebrity power to keep the reruns of "Trapped in the Closet" off the air and it backfired.  First South Park hit them with the Zenu press release.  Then finally, Stone gave  an ultimatum which was basically show the rerun or the relationship between Comedy Central/Viacom/Paramount was over as soon as contracts ended.  They picked South Park over Tom Cruise.

I remember this and thought it was curious and narcissistic of Cruise and Scientology; since I always thought "Trapped in the Closet" made fun of R. Kelly, who came out with that whole insane series of videos. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Neurochick

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I remember this and thought it was curious and narcissistic of Cruise and Scientology; since I always thought "Trapped in the Closet" made fun of R. Kelly, who came out with that whole insane series of videos. 

Oh no, it was totally about Cruise and the rumors of his sexuality.....with Cruise hiding in a closet and the constant begging of him to come out.  

[ParadoxLost]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I remember this and thought it was curious and narcissistic of Cruise and Scientology; since I always thought "Trapped in the Closet" made fun of R. Kelly, who came out with that whole insane series of videos. 

As with all things South Park, it was all those things.  But it was basically Cruise and Scientology and a happy circumstance that they could add a side of R. Kelly.

[Shorty186]

Did they ever explain why Rinder was put in the Hole to begin with? Did Miscavige just not like him? Also, I was waiting for them to mention Rinder's hand in turning Nicole's kids against her right before/during the divorce. I had read or seen him own up to it before and say he would apologize to Nicole if he thought she wanted anything to do with him.

[Proclone]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:16 AM, RedheadZombie said:

LRH also spent years writing his brilliant psychology book, and was laughed out of town by the American Psychiatric Association.  That's why his "religion" is entirely anti-psychiatry.  They actually attempt to pin the Holocaust on psychiatry!

LRH also had some connection to Aleister Crowley, who was a founding father of Satanism.  The CO$ cross is thought to be inspired by one that represented Crowley's cult - Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

LRH's wife told of her abuses at the hands of her husband.  The one that sticks in my mind - he kidnapped their daughter, and told his wife that he had chopped the child up in little pieces.  He would also beat her when he caught her smiling in her sleep.  Apparently, it meant she was thinking of another man.  He was cruel and borderline insane.  Yet there are people who look at him, and think - That's my Messiah!

Not to get off topic, but Aleister Crowley was many things (a heroin addict, and a misogynist to name two) , but a Satanist was not among them nor is Thelma (the religion he founded) Satanism.  And the Golden Dawn existed prior to Aleister's involvement in it.  He joined the Golden Dawn in 1889.  He did found the A.A (there are symbols of three dots in a pyramid between and after the a's but I can't figure out how to make them on the keyboard) and the religion of Thelma.  And despite being called "the wickedest man in the world," I would say he was a heck of a lot less wicked then LRH all things considered. At least in terms of lasting legacy. 

LRH did have contact with a follower of Crowley and leader of a OTO lodge named Jack Parsons.  Parson's girlfriend, Sara was Hubbard's "second" wife.  The one he married without divorcing his first wife.  Hubbard claimed he was sent into to infiltrate the OTO by the navy and that he destroyed it and had rescued Sara from them.

There in lies the problem about how we define a cult.  Was the Golden Dawn a cult (it no longer really exists btw, the OTO now teaches Thelma)?  It was secret, it didn't (and the OTO still doesn't) reveal certain aspects until you reach a certain grade and did (and once again the OTO still does) require membership fees.  But unlike the CO$ if you wanted to leave the Golden Dawn you just left with no repercussions.   Therefore I wouldn't have called the Golden Dawn a cult and I wouldn't call the OTO one either.  There are quite a few oath bound religions (religions where you don't talk about certain teachings or practices with outsiders or those that have not reached a certain level or grade) and I wouldn't call the vast majority of them cults, at least not by the more modern definition that implies dangerous.

Before I really knew about the abuses in the CO$ I would defend it if someone called it crazy.  I practice a pagan religion and a lot of people might think what I do (especially if they didn't really understand it) is nuts.  Catholics believe they literally eat the flesh and drink the blood of their deity.  That sounds crazy when I phrase it that way doesn't it? Almost all religions sound nuts from the outside. Yes, Xenu/Xemu sounds nuts, but I don't really care. Nutty beliefs don't really hurt anyone.  Billion year contracts, signed by minors, hurts people.  Charging exorbitant rates for courses, hurts people. If they're a religion why isn't course work offered at close to cost of the materials?  You can't tell me a binder full of paper costs them thousands of dollars to produce.  Sticking people in work camps, hurts people.  Forcing people to stay when they want to leave, hurts people. 

It's hard to say exactly what is or is not a cult.  I think a lot of those "mega" fundamentalist christian churches seem a bit cult like.  But unlike the CO$ they aren't going to drag you back if you leave.  In the end I think a cult is kind of like pornography, it's hard to define, but I know one when I see it and the CO$ is one.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Proclone
typo

[Baltimore Betty]

On 12/27/2016 at 8:10 PM, Moose Andsquirrel said:

That reminded me of this that SNL did after the Going Clear documentary came out.

Thank you, OMG, I giggled thru the whole video!  Sadly, it's funny 'cause it's true! 

[ElleMo]

On 12/9/2016 at 10:21 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

I'm down a peg on Remini, however. I was on the fence during the last episode, but her artful tears here during Rinder's story (a story she must have heard a million times already, travelling with him and preparing this show) rang so false and "performed." It was really disappointing. What a distraction from the story she's trying to tell.

Hope next week is a little more impressive. It's the money episode, so how can it not be?

 

1

I just finished watching ep 2 and I cannot agree with you more!  I don't particularly like the format of the show.  The chattiness doesn't help the story;  it just makes everything feel scripted.

And now for some more superficial comments: her claw-nails are soooo distracting.  

When she is sitting alone in the room commenting, she is wearing a pirate shirt that Seinfeld would be proud of and has long red pointy nails.  She is waving/talking with her hands, which I am sure makes the Italian side of her family proud.  But the arm waving draws attention to the ridiculous sleeves and those damn nails and distracts me from what she is saying.  

And in the crying scene, she put her hands on her face and all I could think was that her nail color was toned downed but the nails were still very pointy and annoyed the hell out of me!

Edited January 2, 2017 by ElleMo

[funky-rat]

At first,  I didn't like Leah Remini.  I didn't like Who's The Boss (I had a friend who liked it, and we spent time at their house every week, so I had no choice).  I didn't care for her when she was on Cheers, and I especially couldn't stand her on Saved By The Bell, another show I absolutely hated, but my college roommate loved it.  So when King Of Queens came out, I didn't even bother, but a few years ago, I got sucked in to reruns and found that for the most part, it was a funny show.  I didn't know she was even a Scientologist until close to the end of her time there.

And in all honesty, as someone upthread said, up until a few years ago I gave Scientology a pass, and defended their right to be "weird".  As it happened, a person that a web forum I belonged to all considered a pest and obnoxious had been going to some Anti-Scientology events and publicizing it.  Some of the claims he was making were shocking, and it wasn't unusual for this person to make lots of statements he couldn't back up.  In an attempt to discredit him, a few of us started digging deeper (as we were concerned about legalities of him spouting his mouth off when he couldn't back it up).  I stopped defending them that day.  We were shocked at some of the stuff we dug up....and that was over 10 years ago.  It's worse now.

Yeah, Leah is a bit over-the-top on this series, but I believe her sincerity.  People ask Mr. Funky how he functions after being in a horribly abusive home growing up, and it's that his fight-or-flight instinct is very strong.  I see a lot of him in Mike Rinder.  When it's all you've ever known, you do what it takes to survive because the alternate is unthinkable.  Mr. Funky says he "goes on autopilot".  Then you reach a breaking point (it was when Mr. Funky was 18 - it takes some people longer) and your desire to escape is stronger than your desire to maintain the status quo.  In his case, he tried moving to another state, turning down a fully paid opportunity at school in his backyard.  To reward him, his mother cleaned out his bank account, stealing scholarship and student loan money.  Her justification was that she relied on him to help around the house, and he took off, and she needed the money to keep her car and house.  She figured it would get him kicked out of school (it did) and he'd come running home (he didn't).  It took him years to pay the student loan money back.  To get him absolved of it, we would have had to turn her in to the police, and he refused.  It would have gotten his loans wiped out, but would have given her more ammo to make his life miserable.  He cut his losses.

[Enigma X]

14 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

At first,  I didn't like Leah Remini.  I didn't like Who's The Boss (I had a friend who liked it, and we spent time at their house every week, so I had no choice).  I didn't care for her when she was on Cheers, and I especially couldn't stand her on Saved By The Bell, another show I absolutely hated, but my college roommate loved it.  So when King Of Queens came out, I didn't even bother, but a few years ago, I got sucked in to reruns and found that for the most part, it was a funny show.  I didn't know she was even a Scientologist until close to the end of her time there.

Other than King of Queens, I had no idea that Leah was on any of these shows, and I have watched them all except for Saved By the Bell.

[funky-rat]

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Other than King of Queens, I had no idea that Leah was on any of these shows, and I have watched them all except for Saved By the Bell.

Her time on all of the others listed were brief.  She was in one story arc on SBTB - 5-8 episodes, maybe?  Somewhere in that range.  Not sure how many Who's the Boss eps - a small handful, and then she was put on a short-lived spin-off show about models (the friends I spoke of also watched it).  She played one of Carla Tortelli's daughters on Cheers for a handful of eps.  I don't believe she was on the Tortelli's short-lived spin-off show.

[laurakaye]

I think Leah plays the part of vulnerable bad-ass to perfection, especially on King of Queens.  The pole-dancing episode comes to mind as one of my many favorites.:)

[bubbls]

Was it Rinder's mother who had the heart transplant? I thought that kind of thing was frowned upon. 

[DangerousMinds]

They are supposed to be able to heal themselves and others when they get to the upper levels, right? But you can bet Tom Cruise will have no problems accepting a heart transplant should the need arise.

[bubbls]

6 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

They are supposed to be able to heal themselves and others when they get to the upper levels, right? But you can bet Tom Cruise will have no problems accepting a heart transplant should the need arise.

That's what I thought. So, maybe his mom wasn't at a high enough level and they allowed a heart transplant....? I wish it had been addressed in the show. 

[AZChristian]

Maybe no one would donate a heart to Tom Cruise, but Tom would donate his heart to David Miscavage - even if he weren't dead.  (At least that's how much it LOOKS like he adores DM).