S01.E04: Fall

[solotrek]

Who would buy a nonfiction book of the lives of non-celebrities who had their greatest achievements because of privilege and entitlement? I hated Wild, but that has more of a struggle and journey than the Gilmore story. These type of books only sell if the person is famous like an actor, established author (Stephen King's On Writing), blogger, or youtuber.

A fictional book based on it would make more sense. Heck, make it a book series. Or here's a thought, do it as a book and sell the spec rights to Doyle to make it a TV show or movie. Make it full meta.

And honestly, why the hell isn't Rory a blogger? These sites are a dime a dozen. But it would  give a broad portfolio and also she would constantly be writing something and having to think up ideas. 

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, FictionLover said:

I wondered that too...anyone???

I had to do some digging, but apparently it's a reference to a conversation she had with Fran in the episode Red Light on the Wedding Night:

FRAN: This is a very crucial decision, young lady. Cake is the glue of the wedding, so you will stand here and eat until you decide.
LORELAI: Okay, if you insist.
FRAN: I do. After all, what’s more important then your wedding day?
LORELAI: Well, it ain’t Guy Fawkes day.

Guy Fawkes Day is obviously on November 5th. I THINK that's what she's referring to. It's very obscure and only another GG fan pointed it out on another site. 

[FictionLover]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I had to do some digging, but apparently it's a reference to a conversation she had with Fran in the episode Red Light on the Wedding Night:

FRAN: This is a very crucial decision, young lady. Cake is the glue of the wedding, so you will stand here and eat until you decide.
LORELAI: Okay, if you insist.
FRAN: I do. After all, what’s more important then your wedding day?
LORELAI: Well, it ain’t Guy Fawkes day.

Guy Fawkes Day is obviously on November 5th. I THINK that's what she's referring to. It's very obscure and only another GG fan pointed it out on another site. 

Thanks!

[Bumblebee Tights]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:02 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

 

On 11/27/2016 at 10:10 PM, txhorns79 said:

Edited November 30, 2016 by Bumblebee Tights
Ugh, nvm, I'm going to try again

[CalamityBoPeep]

8 hours ago, hippielamb said:

Maybe Luke's dark day? Wasn't that supposed to be in November? 

Luke's birthday, maybe? I don't think we ever heard the date, but we know he's a Scorpio.

[Bumblebee Tights]

2 hours ago, solotrek said:

Who would buy a nonfiction book of the lives of non-celebrities who had their greatest achievements because of privilege and entitlement? I hated Wild, but that has more of a struggle and journey than the Gilmore story. These type of books only sell if the person is famous like an actor, established author (Stephen King's On Writing), blogger, or youtuber.

I mean..there are books like Wild and Eat Pray Love that have been hugely successful, even though I agree, those books have more of a 'hook' and aren't really straight memoirs.

However, people like Mary Karr (who I totally recommend!), Vivianne Gornick, and David Sedaris, to name a few that I'm familiar with, have made decent names for themselves by publishing novels and short stories centered around their lives, their upbringings, and their families, despite meeting none of the criteria you mention. I think sometimes it's the voice behind the story that makes it interesting, as much as the story itself. I also happen to think the story of Lorelai's pregnancy and her subsequent unconventional relationship with Rory, especially when you add Richard and Emily to the mix, is a really rich source to draw from and is also pretty marketable ...I mean, we're all watching it, right? I also don't think that you can really categorize Lorelai's achievements as having much to do with privilege or entitlement, though it's a fair enough argument to make about Rory even though I don't necessarily agree completely.

Also, I love love love Stephen King's On Writing. Just wanted to add that!

[junienmomo]

7 minutes ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

Luke's birthday, maybe? I don't think we ever heard the date, but we know he's a Scorpio.

I think Lorelai chose a close date that she could work with, without considering too many symbols. Now, the fact that the sign says November 5, 2016, and she told Luke it was going to be on a Sunday, is odd, because November 6 is a Sunday in 2016.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

I think Lorelai chose a close date that she could work with, without considering too many symbols. Now, the fact that the sign says November 5, 2016, and she told Luke it was going to be on a Sunday, is odd, because November 6 is a Sunday in 2016.

It's why I'm positive it's supposed to be 2017, not 2016. It adds up better with how old Rory is in Winter (32 years old). 

[solotrek]

52 minutes ago, Bumblebee Tights said:

I also happen to think the story of Lorelai's pregnancy and her subsequent unconventional relationship with Rory, especially when you add Richard and Emily to the mix, is a really rich source to draw from and is also pretty marketable ...I mean, we're all watching it, right? I also don't think that you can really categorize Lorelai's achievements as having much to do with privilege or entitlement, though it's a fair enough argument to make about Rory even though I don't necessarily agree completely.

I do think Lorelai's ability to go out and do what she does have a lot to do with both privilege and entitlement. Rory's achievements (obviously not her grades) definitely do. And I think these issues were highlighted during the revival.

So I guess that's where my issue with the whole thing stems. Since I hated both Wild and Eat, Pray, Love - I could see myself rolling my eyes at this book. Mary Karr (whom yes, I also recommend to anyone, as well as her friend Tobias Wolff) and David Sedaris (LOVE LOVE LOVE) also had much more interesting and or difficult lives than Lorelai and Rory. At the end of the day, it's hard to truly spin the backup rich parents/grandparents/friends who can give $30000 loans/eat out all the time into hard life journeys. Because at the end of the day it will always come down to, what kind of person brings a baby into this hardship because she couldn't deal with her own parents? There is no way to truly paint Emily and Richard as the villains needed to make Lorelai's decision seem at all reasonable. Even the show struggled to do that. With how the world is today, which is evident with recent events, the Lorelai part of the story is not something that people will have much sympathy over. And I think this is truly the reason Lorelai was fighting the book so hard, because deep down, she knows it and knows how harshly she would be judged. This is also something she mentioned, basically saying that she wouldn't look good once the narrative is outside her hands.

Edited November 30, 2016 by solotrek

[Bumblebee Tights]

On 11/28/2016 at 9:02 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I'm not getting how people see the last ten years of Rory's life as a failure but we can all infer into the storylines how we like I suppose. I'm glad that Rory led the jettsetting journalist lifestyle she always wanted to and enjoys it. It wasn't a failure by any measure just because she didn't do it forever. Years from now she'll look back at what a wonderful time she had traveling the world. She can go into another aspect of journalism knowing that she did try out her original dream job for years and loved it. I am happy knowing all that, and know she'll enjoy exploring exploring the quite side of journalism too.

 

Ok, my phone is winning and I just can’t fix these quotes, but I just had to respond to this, because yes! I’m so glad to find someone who shares my feelings about this. I don’t think the value of Rory’s goals, education, or experiences are diminished because she’s decided she might want to do something else.  Something which, I might add, is not drastically different than what she was working towards. She still wants to write, nonfiction, about people. That is not too dissimilar to being a feature writer as far as skillset, in my mind. I just think that Rory’s entering a new season in her life, as many do..but it doesn’t mean the other stuff was a waste…in fact, it led her to this point. I get being disappointed that Rory didn’t end up at a major newspaper, but print journalism is a very different world now than the one Rory originally dreamed of entering. It makes sense that she might change gears. We didn’t get the fairy tale ending for Rory, but for me, what we got was maybe better. In fairness though, I’m pretty biased because I’m just so crazy about the idea of her writing this book and what it means for the series as a whole.

On 11/27/2016 at 10:10 PM, txhorns79 said:

[eurekagirl mOo]

Maybe Logan isn't the Baby Daddy. Rory had a one night stand with a guy in a Wookie outfit. (Of course she did)

Did I miss Miss Patty? Always liked her.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Who would buy a nonfiction book of the lives of non-celebrities who had their greatest achievements because of privilege and entitlement? I hated Wild, but that has more of a struggle and journey than the Gilmore story. These type of books only sell if the person is famous like an actor, established author (Stephen King's On Writing), blogger, or youtuber.

It probably depends on how the book is marketed.  There's certainly an interesting story to tell with Rory and Lorelai's life.  If you go into the situation thinking the author is too "privileged" or "entitled" you likely were never going to buy their book anyways. 

[LegalParrot81]

10 minutes ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

Did I miss Miss Patty? Always liked her.

She was in only one scene that I remember, signing up the folks who wanted to audition for the musical, but that was it and she maybe said three words.

I don't think Liz Torres is in the best of health, but that's just my opinion.

Edited November 30, 2016 by LegalParrot81

[Bumblebee Tights]

57 minutes ago, solotrek said:

I do think Lorelai's ability to go out and do what she does have a lot to do with both privilege and entitlement. Rory's achievements (obviously not her grades) definitely do. And I think these issues were highlighted during the revival.

So I guess that's where my issue with the whole thing stems. Since I hated both Wild and Eat, Pray, Love - I could see myself rolling my eyes at this book. Mary Karr (whom yes, I also recommend to anyone, as well as her friend Tobias Wolff) and David Sedaris (LOVE LOVE LOVE) also had much more interesting and or difficult lives than Lorelai and Rory. At the end of the day, it's hard to truly spin the backup rich parents/grandparents/friends who can give $30000 loans/eat out all the time into hard life journeys. Because at the end of the day it will always come down to, what kind of person brings a baby into this hardship because she couldn't deal with her own parents? There is no way to truly paint Emily and Richard as the villains needed to make Lorelai's decision seem at all reasonable. Even the show struggled to do that. With how the world is today, which is evident with recent events, the Lorelai part of the story is not something that people will have much sympathy over. And I think this is truly the reason Lorelai was fighting the book so hard, because deep down, she knows it and knows how harshly she would be judged.

Ok, I see where you're coming from, I think. For me, I'm not really coming from a place where the book would have to focus on hardship as it's defining element, nor would it need to paint Emily and Richard as villians- I really doubt Rory would do that.

I'm seeing a book that maybe examines their privilege, why Lorelai turned away from it-was she really justified in doing so?-and what it was like to be raised by a teenager who would rather live in a potting shed than a mansion, and in what ways that shaped Rory, both positively and negatively. It would also be about having a best friend for a mom, and was that a good or a bad thing? I see Lorelai as being painted as larger than life, sort of in the vein of the (albeit fictional) Jenny Garp. There would also be the evolution of Rory getting to know her grandparents and realizing maybe they weren't as bad as her mother had made them out to be..what was that like, how did that make her feel about her mom? Then there's the issues of self identity that leads to: did Rory belong in her mother's world or her grandparent's? I don't know, I just feel like there's a lot of room for character study and psychological exploration, and I tend to enjoy that sort of thing. But yeah, such a book would probably be hard on Lorelai, and obviously she realized that...but that's part of what would make it interesting.

About the privilege and entitlement ...that's a whole different conversation, but I will counter that, while you could say Lorelai got her annex in the revival because of privilege, most of what we see in the original run (working her way from maid to manager of the Independence Inn, saving up enough to buy a house, even The Dragonfly to an extent) is genuinely about hard work, and in fact we see a great resistance on her part to making use of her advantages, like in Secrets and Loans.

Rory's privilege as I said, is a fairer point, but as you said, her grades can't be counted as such, and they are no small thing and did open doors for her before the privilege entered the picture.

That being said, rolling my eyes right along with you at Wild and Eat, Pray, Love.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Bumblebee Tights

[eurekagirl mOo]

Si if rory is 32 and Lorlei had her at 16 she's now 48. And I'm supposed to believe she suddenly decides she wants a baby? Honey that ship has sailed. Your in Grandma territory.

[Melancholy]

12 minutes ago, Bumblebee Tights said:

Ok, I see where you're coming from, I think. For me, I'm not really coming from a place where the book would have to focus on hardship as it's defining element, nor would it need to paint Emily and Richard as villians- I really doubt Rory would do that.

I'm seeing a book that maybe examines their privilege, why Lorelai turned away from it-was she really justified in doing so?-and what it was like to be raised by a teenager who would rather live in a potting shed than a mansion, and in what ways that shaped Rory, both positively and negatively. It would also be about having a best friend for a mom, and was that a good or a bad thing? I see Lorelai as being painted as larger than life, sort of in the vein of the (albeit fictional) Jenny Garp. There would also be the evolution of Rory getting to know her grandparents and realizing maybe they weren't as bad as her mother had made them out to be..what was that like, how did that make her feel about her mom? Then there's the issues of self identity that leads to: did Rory belong in her mother's world or her grandparent's? I don't know, I just feel like there's a lot of room for character study and psychological exploration, and I tend to enjoy that sort of thing. But yeah, such a book would probably be hard on Lorelai, and obviously she realized that...but that's part of what would make it interesting.

About the privilege and entitlement ...that's a whole different conversation, but I will counter that, while you could say Lorelai got her annex in the revival because of privilege, most of what we see in the original run (working her way from maid to manager of the independence inn, saving up enough to buy a house, even The Dragonfly to an extent) is genuinely about hard work, and in fact we see a great resistance on her part to making use of her advantages, like in Secrets and Loans.

Rory's privilege as I said, is a fairer point, but as you said, her grades can't be counted as such, and they are no small thing and did open doors for her before the privilege entered the picture.

That being said, rolling my eyes right along with you at Wild and Eat, Pray, Love.

Right. I think Rory writing from E/R's mansion after incredibly fond, loving memories of her grandparents danced in her head made it clear that she'd definitely write them as very, very sympathetic likable characters. However, Rory would also write Lorelai as a heroine. I think that inherent conflict could be really interesting if well written. 

I know I'm bucking fashion but I don't think privilege or White Feminism in themselves make an artistic work boring or poorly written. Yes to more diversity but I've never disliked a work because the characters were too rich or entitled. I even think that makes fruit for debate and the charm of lavish rich wish fulfillment settings is so obvious that it's a universal part of storytelling. 

I think the book can be a success. I just think Rory comes off small and unimpressive if this is all she can write. An intriguing story set into motion by her mother and grandparents. 

[starri]

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

She was in only one scene that I remember, signing up the folks who wanted to audition for the musical, but that was it and she maybe said three words.

I don't think Liz Torres is in the best of health, but that's just my opinion.

She had a brief scene (a line, really) in "Winter."

[shron17]

3 minutes ago, starri said:

She was in only one scene that I remember, signing up the folks who wanted to audition for the musical, but that was it and she maybe said three words.

I don't think Liz Torres is in the best of health, but that's just my opinion.

I hope that's not the case.  There were a few things listed on IMDB so maybe it was her schedule?  I really missed her at all of the town meetings and at the musical.  Miss Patty would have been right in the middle of creating Stars Hollow the musical.

[cantbeflapped]

So I'm not usually a big Nitpicker, but I'm really curious what you guys think about this one...

Why was it daylight in the last scene at the gazebo, with Lorelai and Rory?  Did they spend all night sitting there drinking?  (Lorelai drinking anyway).  Before a big wedding day?  The pre wedding was in the dark.  Was their pre-wedding at 5am?  They spoke to Rev. Skinner that night but said, "Meet us at the town square at 5am."?  I'm guessing the planned wedding is later that next day, since Kirk included lights in the decor and Emily was still in Nantucket during the pre wedding.  Not sure what that has to do with anything, just figuring out the timing. 

Not sure if my ramblings make sense.  I usually shrug these things off, but this seemed like a pretty strange one, so I was curious what you guys thought.  

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, cantbeflapped said:

So I'm not usually a big Nitpicker, but I'm really curious what you guys think about this one...

Why was it daylight in the last scene at the gazebo, with Lorelai and Rory?  Did they spend all night sitting there drinking?  (Lorelai drinking anyway).  Before a big wedding day?  The pre wedding was in the dark.  Was their pre-wedding at 5am?  They spoke to Rev. Skinner that night but said, "Meet us at the town square at 5am."?  I'm guessing the planned wedding is later that next day, since Kirk included lights in the decor and Emily was still in Nantucket during the pre wedding.  Not sure what that has to do with anything, just figuring out the timing. 

Not sure if my ramblings make sense.  I usually shrug these things off, but this seemed like a pretty strange one, so I was curious what you guys thought.  

My impression was, yes it was daylight, maybe just after dawn.  And yes, I thought they had been there all night.  Reverend Skinner was supposedly out late for bingo, but bingo probably didn't go on very late, so, maybe they had their ceremony between 10 and midnight?  Just a guess.  But I definitely thought they were up all night and would be really tired for the scheduled festivities.  But, you know, coffee.  Which Rory might have to switch to decaf for awhile. 

[SeanC]

On the subject of Rory's career:  how exactly is she going to be supporting herself?  The sum total of her career aspirations is apparently a volunteer position as the editor of a tiny newspaper (which, also, what about those other employees?  Are they also volunteers?  How did the old editor live?), i.e., she's not getting paid anything.  She's now pregnant, which obviously comes with considerable upfront expenses.  It will be a good while before her apparent book project generates any revenue, and, in general, very few writers can actually live full-time off their writing (particularly as Rory's new calling is as a memoirist, which is kind of a limited well to draw water from; she's not a novelist or even, as far as we know, a writer of general nonfiction).  So, for all the show's harangues about inherited money, is she basically committed to living off her grandmother and mother's incomes?

Edited December 1, 2016 by SeanC

[VCRTracking]

God I hope Lauren Graham finally wins an Emmy.

Kelly Bishop rocked the quitting the DAR scene.

"I'm Federal Agent Jack Bauer. This is the longest day of my life. And my wife and mistress have the same face. And haircut."

That has always bugged me about the first season of 24!

[queenanne]

Realistically speaking, I feel like the problems people have outlined and experienced, are problems telegraphing in big flashing lights, that A-SP wants to continue the series and has in fact expected to be able to continue the series (low affect on the part of a current Jess, means he'll be expected to be "the 'surprise' Luke" when "the Christopher", aka Logan, turns out not to be there for Rory; as all the messages extant in the Logan character revival thus far, indicates that he won't be.  "Or hey, maybe Dean will be free, if Milo's series outlasts Supernatural, etc., so let's hedge our bets on what kind of a babydaddy Dean will be, by making him super nice and grounded and having Rory react positively to that!!").  

I hate this kind of telegraphing and indicating, thus won't watch; but the most irritating outcome for me, is how much the scenario of Rory's adulthood destroys committed, always-more-mature-than-Mommy Rory.  Driven Chilton/Harvard Wannabe Rory flaming out, doesn't seem as consistent to Rory's character; or else what is the point of having her more mature and driven than Lorelai as a prior constant?  This type of "subversion of expectations", indicates to me more of a likelihood of A-SP thinking she was saying something deep about Millennials and lowered expectations, and making it a Rory bolt-on regardless of whether or not it suited her or did a violence to her prior characterization.  Hell, I'd have preferred a Rory who was Type A executive and worked for Christopher, and had to be hectored into loosening up and unwinding a hectic career-driven lifestyle that sidetracked her and her prior lofty aspirations.

I did, surprisingly, like Rory and the Life and Death Brigade, though.  I think that was one of the neatest things the original series did, was to show an alterna-Rory at home in fancy society, who would have blossomed in the life Lorelai at least partly denied her by her hardscrabble ways.  I'm sure to some extent Teen Lorelai was a charming debutante, etc., whose company was much sought after by girls and boys in her circle alike, reject them though she did.

Edited December 1, 2016 by queenanne

[candle96]

I think the main problem with the revival and  ASP hanging on to those "last 4 words" all these years, is that being pregnant at 22 is a lot different than being pregnant at 32. Even if you're not in the best place, at 32, plenty of your peers have had kids and you'll get a less sympathy about not having your shit together. No one outside those close to you are going to feel the need to rally around you as a single mom at 32, because there are lots of single moms in their 30s.  Logan at 32 should not be equated with Christopher at 17.  Rory's entire storyline would've made a lot more sense if she were 22 - 25. It feels like they mostly shoehorned in what they had planned for the last season, save a few details.

Did I miss something about that letter Emily mentioned in therapy? Was it ever discussed again? I thought for sure there was going to be some reveal about it. Emily was convinced Lorelei wrote it to her, Lorelei swears she didn't. Emily said it was on her birthday, and then Lorelei talked about her own birthday in that phone call about her dad, but nothing about the letter. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

Edited December 1, 2016 by candle96

[ddiced35]

Quote

I think the problem with the last 4 words is that this (or if this) was Amy's plan all along. It would have been 23-24 year old Rory. Plus a lot of this mini-series felt like it should have taken place a few years after college. Plus they fear Revival Rory isn't going to be good for the baby and Lorelai will end up taking care of the child why Rory is off still looking for herself-ok that last one might just be me ....

 

Question: Has ASP said that it was always the plan to have Rory speak those last four words? I'm just wondering if it was originally going to be Lorelai telling Emily (with Rory there, of course) way back then, but now with Lorelai being 48 and expanding the inn, having a baby would be really tough (not impossible, but...talk about stress on a new marriage/business). 

[LegalParrot81]

1 hour ago, ddiced35 said:

 

Question: Has ASP said that it was always the plan to have Rory speak those last four words? I'm just wondering if it was originally going to be Lorelai telling Emily (with Rory there, of course) way back then, but now with Lorelai being 48 and expanding the inn, having a baby would be really tough (not impossible, but...talk about stress on a new marriage/business). 

I don't think anyone but ASP could answer that. The actors all knew that ASP had the last four words really from the beginning with the intention to use them at the end of the series, but no knew what they were.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by LegalParrot81

[Taryn74]

11 minutes ago, LegalParrot81 said:

1 hour ago, ddiced35 said:

Question: Has ASP said that it was always the plan to have Rory speak those last four words? I'm just wondering if it was originally going to be Lorelai telling Emily (with Rory there, of course) way back then, but now with Lorelai being 48 and expanding the inn, having a baby would be really tough (not impossible, but...talk about stress on a new marriage/business). 

I don't think anyone but ASP could answer that. The actors all knew that ASP had the last four words really from the beginning with the intention to use them at the end of the series, but no knew what they were.  

Which, conveniently, also left ASP with the freedom to pull those "final four words" completely out of her ass, because nobody would know the difference.  Which is exactly what I think she did, personally.

[LegalParrot81]

9 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Which, conveniently, also left ASP with the freedom to pull those "final four words" completely out of her ass, because nobody would know the difference.  Which is exactly what I think she did, personally.

Secretly, or perhaps not so secretly, hoping to set themselves up for a season 2 perhaps?  LOL

[Lady Calypso]

I just posted an interview by Amy in the Media thread, but she does confirm that Rory was supposed to get pregnant at 22/23, so...yeah, there's that. 

[Taryn74]

29 minutes ago, LegalParrot81 said:

Secretly, or perhaps not so secretly, hoping to set themselves up for a season 2 perhaps?  LOL

Yep!  To quote the movie Cars:  We're not as dumb as you think we are.  Heh.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I just posted an interview by Amy in the Media thread, but she does confirm that Rory was supposed to get pregnant at 22/23, so...yeah, there's that. 

That may be the place where I read that she (Amy) wanted history to repeat itself.  I also read there or somewhere else that the Sherman/Palladinos don't view Rory as having a happy ending, nor a tragic one.  It's just life throwing a curveball.  A curveball that I bet lands in Season 2, and that I feel is a tired old story. 

[NumberCruncher]

38 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That may be the place where I read that she (Amy) wanted history to repeat itself.  I also read there or somewhere else that the Sherman/Palladinos don't view Rory as having a happy ending, nor a tragic one.  It's just life throwing a curveball.  A curveball that I bet lands in Season 2, and that I feel is a tired old story. 

Yep.  This is why I'm not terribly keen on getting another season.  ASP has basically already told us how it would end...we are our parents both in our life circumstances and relationships.  I think I already watched that once.

[Cabarb]

I really wanted Emily to be at the wedding.  I understand why they wanted to leave the show with Emily living her new life, but she has been left out of so many things in her daughter's life (including her first marriage to Christopher). Excluding her was a problem for me.

And now for one nitpicky thing. When Rory asked Dean if she could include him in the book, she very deliberately said she would be changing all the names. So how is she naming it Gilmore Girls. Yes I know it's the cutest tie-in title but it's certainly not anonymous. 

[VCRTracking]

I will say this, that whole wedding sequence was beautiful.

I'm glad Lorelei got to connect with and befriend those fellow "Wild" enthusiasts at the Pacific Crest Trail.

Edited December 2, 2016 by VCRTracking

[txhorns79]

Quote

And now for one nitpicky thing. When Rory asked Dean if she could include him in the book, she very deliberately said she would be changing all the names. So how is she naming it Gilmore Girls. Yes I know it's the cutest tie-in title but it's certainly not anonymous. 

I'm trying to remember the scene exactly, but I think she says she's changing names to "protect the guilty."  I don't think she claims everyone's name will be changed. 

[Primetimer]

And Nick Rheinwald-Jones is not a crackpot, but he's sure it isn't Lorelai or Rory.

View the full article

[Clearlyhere]

And Nick Rheinwald-Jones is not a crackpot, but he's sure it isn't Lorelai or Rory.

View the full article

Emily's journey is certainly the biggest. I've been amazed/reminded, after watching the revival, at how great Kelly Bishop is. She provided most of the best moments of the mini and I found myself wishing for more her. She really had to change and let go of all her Connecticut society, everything that Lorelei ran from when she was 16. She basically had to make the same decision that Lorelei did to find happiness after Richard's death. After trying to draw Rory into high society for most of the series, she abandons it herself.

[MatildaMoody]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:45 AM, WatchrTina said:

I enjoyed seeing the Life and Death Brigade again more than I would have thought. I really thought that was going to be just a trippy dream sequence for the first half.

This reminds me that I was weirded out by that whole sequence. Not because of the trippy aspect though. It was the irresponsibility of it all. I get that ASP wanted to make it dreamy and remind us of the "outlandish fun" of Logan and his gang. But, all I could see was them drinking and then driving around in that little car with Rory and Logan just haphazardly sitting unsecured on the back of it. It just took me out of the dream because I kept thinking how dangerous it was. 

[MaiSoCalled]

18 hours ago, Cabarb said:

And now for one nitpicky thing. When Rory asked Dean if she could include him in the book, she very deliberately said she would be changing all the names. So how is she naming it Gilmore Girls. Yes I know it's the cutest tie-in title but it's certainly not anonymous. 

I would guess she's changing the names of everyone not named Gilmore. It may not be difficult for Stars Hollow to guess who her first boyfriend is, no matter what name she uses, but all of Dean's current friends won't know unless he tells them. 

She'll probably also change the name of the rich playboy she dates in college, but her Yale friends will know that it's Logan.

I read a lot of memoirs like Rory's book, and I believe most of them change names of minor characters. 

[DisneyBoy]

I just watched it.

 

Let's start with the obvious - those final four words were not worth waiting all these years for.

 

 

That aside I smiled a lot for the last half-hour of Fall. It's a shame that this movie seems to cram into it all of the things I wanted to see spread out over the four movies.

It was great to start seeing Emily build a new life for herself but there wasn't enough of that for my tastes. That epic smackdown of the DAR was awesome but I have no clue if she's actually interested in this man friend of hers or why she's telling whale stories at the museum. I had hoped we would get deep into who Emily was without Richard around and I feel like instead we sort of got a glimpse of certain ideas without actually nailing anything down.

We definitely spend too much time with Lorelai on her hiking trip to the obvious. I feel robbed of seeing the actual wedding with all of the town's people, but part of me anticipated that it would have been impossible for them to film without spoilers leaking from the set. The night time wedding was a perfect solution from a production standpoint but it really didn't get me where I wanted to go for Luke and Lorelai as a couple.

 

To the bitter end, Luke remains a concept rather than a person. The guy who is happy just to please you. The show did a lot of wonderful development with him over the course of the series up until about season 6, but in these four movies Luke hasn't so much had his own arc as been reactionary to Lorelai's arc. I didn't feel much chemistry between Scott or Lauren in their kisses or hugs or even in their conversational scenes together. The dour couple that we saw at the end of the series seemed to return here in some respects and that really bums me out. Part of it is the writing, determined to create "will they break up?" tension where it isn't necessary. I needed to hear Luke and Lorelai profess their love under the huppah and I really wanted to see them get sexy with one another. We really did not get very many Luke and Lorelai sexy times, did we? I appreciate that Amy had Emily call Lorelei out on her selfishness in Winter but we never got a resolution to that long overdue theme of her dragging Luke around by the ear. I had hoped the wedding would not only be sparked by Luke proposing to Lorelai - as he should have been able to do at the end of season 5 - but also by them having a wedding that felt representative of them both as individuals. Sadly we never got any resolution on the baby front, and I'm not really sure why the show brought that up in these movies if it was just going to drop it so quickly. Obviously they're past the ideal age for prospective parents and yes the storyline was a way to work Paris back into the revival, but I'm still left shaking my head and wondering what the point of it all was. It seemed to get our hopes up for something that was never going to happen. I will never forget how exciting it was to see Lorelai's dream with Luke talking to her stomach in the kitchen. I'm sad that nothing similar to that ever came to pass.

Emily selling the house was such an afterthought. It was certainly fitting but I kind of feel like Amy was squeezing in a whole lot of "final season" moments into the final 40 minutes of the last movie. All four episodes of the revival could have been devoted to this kind of stuff. Did we really not get to see Rory and Lorelai say goodbye to the house?

Having now watched all four movies I can safely say that Amy was a little too preoccupied with rewriting Logan's exit storyline in her own way. It wasn't worth it. It was way too magical, what with their shenanigans around Stars Hollow. And for what? These four movies basically brought Logan to the exact same point he was in in season 6 - a good guy with way too many bad habits who just isn't the right fit for Rory. If I got that in season 5 and I got that in season 6 and the point was hammered home loud and clear in season 7....why bring him back to just hammer it home again? Was the issue that Milo and Jared simply weren't available four the majority of the production schedule? Did Logan get all this focus by default?

 

I'm going to be honest - I really wanted to see Jess in three of these movies, with him and Rory having an actual relationship as adults. I'm very annoyed it didn't happen. And I'm not even sure if Amy was ever going to go there or not. I wouldn't be surprised if she opted out of it to keep from making Alexis uncomfortable. She did after all date Milo and is now married to another man and has kids. Would asking her to get sexy with her ex on camera to the delight of millions of fans put her in an awkward position?

Seeing Sookie was wonderful and at the same time kind of painful. You could tell with Sookie and Christopher and some of the other scenes that Amy was writing one scene returns for these characters so they could come into a single day of filming and be done. I was really hoping we would get to see Sookie at Luke and Lorelai's wedding. And if it wasn't for Melissa's fame and the whole weird kerfuffle over whether or not she would participate, I would have fully expected Sookie to be present. For that matter, why wasn't Emily boarding a plane to fly back to Stars Hollow for her daughter's wedding the following day? In the end, I'm not sure why Lane and Michel were the ones included instead of, say, Jess and Sookie...or Emily.

 

The big twist with Rory's pregnancy falls extremely flat because it kind of absolves Rory as a character from needing to have a career. We've all seen how these female stories go - the girl gets pregnant and suddenly that becomes her entire plotline. If they do another series of movies I'm pretty much dreading Rory being pregnant and having anybody's baby. As for who the father is, I think considering how fond Amy is of narrative callbacks and full circle references Rory would be pregnant by the boyfriend who is the stand-in for her father, AKA Logan.

It's worth noting that the revival ends by honoring the position each of the boyfriends had in Rory's life. Dean goes back to being the delightful knucklehead who can't help but love Rory, standing in Doosie's Market, Jess is back to being the tormented guy who can't express his longing for Rory and Logan goes back to being the rich guy who can make magical things happen but is no good for her.

I'm going to go along with the theory that Rory's one night stand was Jess in a Wookie costume.

I wish I could say that  like Rory writing a book that ties into the title of the series, but I don't think I do. It's way too cutesy and cliche and obvious. Seeing Rory sit down in Richard's chair got me all misty-eyed and made me wish she was writing a book about a fictionalized version of her grandfather instead. Between Trix, Lorelai, Emily, Jason Stiles and Rory herself, Richard had a lot of characters in his life and I think it would have been a really fitting tribute to her grandfather for Rory to take aspects of his life and whip up something new and potentially compelling. It certainly might have helped her through some of the grief that she apparently wasn't feeling throughout the course of these movies. I'm not saying I needed Rory grieving in four movies of course, but I only now realized she seems to deal with Richard's death pretty damn well and that's a bit odd. I was bummed to see Lorelei indulge her daughter's egocentric writings. Can you imagine what she's going to write about herself? I would rather not know but I'm assuming it's aligned with some of Amy's views on Rory's worst character traits, IE that they are endearing and not nearly as selfish or arrogant or entitled as they might appear. Rory is many things but self-aware is not one of them.

Loved seeing Ms. Celine again. Alex Borstein is a goddess. I didn't think her schtick could get me laughing again but it did.

Rory's conversation with Christopher almost seemed like a reply to a question Amy has been struggling to answer from fans for years. I appreciated it, but it rang very hollow. It was a weird chat. And it once again seemed to underscore the fact that Christopher doesn't make much sense as a character. Rory resents him with good reason, but then there's no good reason for him to have left Lorelai alone to raise Rory by herself. So...I feel like I learned nothing.

I hate the Life and Death Brigade and I hated The Wizard of Oz callback. It was as lazy as the Dead Poets Society call back on Bunheads.

 

 

....do I want more? Sure. Yes? Kinda. If there can be a lot more Paris and Sookie and we can focus on Lane and her band and Mrs. Kim, with a little focus on Lorelai and Luke being HAPPY and practically no focus on Rory, unless she's doing the nasty with Jess, I'm in.

Edited December 3, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[Melancholy]

6 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

It was great to start seeing Emily build a new life for herself but there wasn't enough of that for my tastes. That epic smackdown of the DAR was awesome but I have no clue if she's actually interested in this man friend of hers or why she's telling whale stories at the museum. I had hoped we would get deep into who Emily was without Richard around and I feel like instead we sort of got a glimpse of certain ideas without actually nailing anything down.

I also agree that Jack the Zipper was undeveloped. I couldn't get a read if Emily was really interested in him. Was she really being understanding about him having to leave for work because she's Chillax!Emily now or was it an indication that she didn't really care about him all that much? (See the constant tug-of-war where Emily resented Richard working too hard to spend time with her, except for his S2 retirement where he hovered to much.) I did like the whaling. Emily's interest in New England antiquities and history was always very real. It's just that there's a strong, blood-thirsty, intellectual bent that would have rather spent more time on the grisly parts of history instead of doilies or china-plate collections. I loved that dimension so much. 

Quote

I needed to hear Luke and Lorelai profess their love under the huppah and I really wanted to see them get sexy with one another. We really did not get very many Luke and Lorelai sexy times, did we? I appreciate that Amy had Emily call Lorelei out on her selfishness in Winter but we never got a resolution to that long overdue theme of her dragging Luke around by the ear.

I wonder if some of my L/L OTP-ness comes from how I'm generally not a fan of love scenes. Generally, I think sex scenes or make-out scenes are a repetitive waste of time where I'd rather see dialogue or plot. Unless I have a huge crush on the male(s) participant in the love-scene. While I love Luke so much as a character, I don't have a crush on SP. L/L filling up the possible love-scene time with lots of dialogue endears me that much more to them. 

I thought Lorelai could be incredibly selfish in the OS with Luke. On first watch, I was watching Winter appreciating Emily calling Lorelai out on how she treats Luke. However the tricky thing is that on watching the Revival, I didn't think that was fair anymore. Lorelai grew a lot in her relationship with him over the last 10 years that we didn't see. I liked how she helped him fill the salt shakers or clear tables at the diner in Winter and Summer or tried getting up set the table when April came over instead of just sitting and babbling while he works in between complaining that he's not delivering food/coffee fast enough to her. I like that there's a self-referential Felix/Oscar give and take on how to cohabitant with each other. I didn't like that she started in with "April should pay her own way to study abroad" while they were both putting up 32-year old Rory but then, transitioned into offering to help Luke with the finances. I came to have a much more zen opinion that, unlike Emily's accusations, Luke did make a choice that he, himself, would like to live at the Crap Shack. Which he took a lead on remodeling in S6 and apparently, changed the kitchen to his specifications so they could eat more home-cooked meals- so it's much more his house. Ideally, they should have discussed whether they wanted children- but when you get down to it, the fact that they didn't was proof that they didn't want more children. When Luke thinks that Lorelai is on the PCT, he's still indulging Paul Anka like Lorelai does. 

I was all for calling Lorelai out in the OS- but I think she grew enough that she deserved far less of the criticism in the Revival. So, I think Emily was unfairly vicious about how Lorelai treats Luke- and then hypocritical as Emily dragged Luke around to expand the diner. And I think Luke was unfairly punting ownership of his own damn life with the "Our lives were set up by you!" cop-out. Yes, the initial set-up always comes from how Luke so badly wants to please Lorelai and make her happy so that's true but things changed enough that Luke has independence enough in that so that he still decides how his life proceeds. 

I would agree that more Luke/Jess scenes would have served both of their arcs. Especially, Jess was so appealing but unwritten in Revival. 

Quote

The big twist with Rory's pregnancy for me falls extremely flat because it kind of absolves Rory as a character from needing to have a career. We've all seen how these female stories go - the girl gets pregnant and suddenly that's becomes the entire plotline. If they do another series of movies I'm pretty much dreading Rory being pregnant and having anybody's baby. As for who the father is, I think considering how fond Amy is of narrative callbacks and full circle references Rory would be pregnant by the boyfriend who is the stand-in for her father, AKA Logan

I think the pregnancy and the career are connected. The two reflect back on each other. Lorelai's life with Rory in the OS looked great because Lorelai had a good job. Lorelai didn't need a guy in the early seasons to have a great life with Rory, but Lorelai DID need a good job to give her the resources and independence to be her own type of mother and person. The sad, uncertain feeling of Rory being pregnant in the end largely comes from how Rory hasn't settled or even truly developed her professional life. It's anyone's guess how Rory's story would be handled in a sequel. However for the moment, Rory's a sad case because she's in the gazebo basically saying that she wants to remember her childhood that has come to and end because the strip turned pink and that's what delivered her to adulthood instead of a fulfilling career. 

[readster]

I still love the phone call, Emily's rant the DAR and the wedding. Stand out as my favorite parts, other parts were meh outside of Rory and Christopher or even Luke telling Lorelei he wasn't going anywhere. Even the Dean scene was great. But everything with the LADB basically showing a bunch of rich guys who can't grow up. Rory and Logan acting like they are Tristian and Isole and throwing in the Paul joke just before the final 4 words. Comes off as Emily put it: "Bullshit" and basically leave it so AS-P and her husband can possibly get another season out of Netflix and while Kelly Bishop is still alive. 

[Kromm]

5 minutes ago, readster said:

Rory and Logan acting like they are Tristian and Isole and throwing in the Paul joke just before the final 4 words. Comes off as Emily put it: "Bullshit" and basically leave it so AS-P and her husband can possibly get another season out of Netflix and while Kelly Bishop is still alive. 

Does this mean you are skeptical those were the actual always planned final four words?  I mean if the reality of those words sounds like it's a push for another season, then were they always the planned "last thing"?

[clack]

I felt that there was some sort of link between the way that Christopher gazed at Rory as she left his office, and the way Jess gazed at her through the window as he left the porch.

Each had failed her, and had also failed themselves. There was loss and longing in their looks. Chris can never retrieve all those lost years, his absence from Rory's childhood that was due to his own fecklessness and passivity.

And it is left unclear whether Jess is still in love with Rory. But she was his first intense love, and it ended, unresolved, due to his own pride and fear. Was his parting look one of unrequited love, or was it one of regret and remorse?

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Melancholy said:

I couldn't get a read if Emily was really interested in him.

I thought it was pretty clear she was interested in him as friends only. She said something along the lines of not wanting to get into another relationship so soon after Richard dying. Not just because she's still grieving, but because she wants a life of her own for a while.

[TomServo]

On 11/27/2016 at 10:26 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I can fanwank that the wedding was supposed to take place in the evening, giving Emily time to travel back. I honestly think it's a simple cut and dry case of ASP wanting Emily's last scene to take place in that gorgeous new house, to  convey her new stage of life. It wouldn't have been as poignant if she was shown driving in a car as her last shot.

Successfully watching Gilmore Girls requires suspending disbelief about both money and time because ASP has a sense of neither.  Remember that the wedding was going to have an open hot dog cart "all night" (evening wedding), yet when Luke and Lorelai were sitting at the dining room table eating pizza, one of them said that the wedding was ten hours away (morning wedding).  Kirk was awake, watching a movie, and feeding Petal when Lorelai texted him about the decorations AND there were students still practicing at the dance studio (so apparently it was not crazy late), yet the next morning Rory and Lorelai are still at the gazebo in the same clothes from the night before and the sun is up and it's late enough in the day that Lorelai has had time to talk to Miss Patty about the flash mob music without Luke or Rory's knowledge.

There is an episode in season 2 where Jess looks at at least four apartments with Luke, then Jess travels to Lorelai's house to clean the gutters.  Rory talks to Jess there and then travels to attend a book sale at the Stars Hollow library, where she browses for at least two and a half hours (Dean shows her his watch to prove how much time has passed).  After that, she and Dean make plans to shop for more books, watch LOTR at the movie theater, and then rent "Autumn in New York" and mock it.  Then it is lunchtime for Jess at Lorelai's, where Rory bursts in frantically looking for her bracelet (after watching all those movies?  Did she make an excuse to ditch Dean in order to look for the bracelet?  Is Lorelai serving lunch at 6 p.m.?  We are never told).  Time doesn't exist in Stars Hollow.

Edited December 4, 2016 by TomServo

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:31 AM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Opps. Wrong thread

Edited December 3, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[readster]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

Does this mean you are skeptical those were the actual always planned final four words?  I mean if the reality of those words sounds like it's a push for another season, then were they always the planned "last thing"?

No, I do believe those were always meant to be the final 4 words. Even with AS-P leaving after season 6 and her talk about needing a season 8 and her spin-off with Milo never going through. In my mind, it was her way of spinning off the series to be about Rory living the life Lorelei went through except not having a job but a college degree from Yale. Basically "Rory got her childhood and teenage early adult life, now she will see what her mom went through." Kind of feel, which if you look at those final four words and AS-P's look on her series, I can bet that was always the plan and if the series didn't get green lighted it was along the lines of: "Well, guess you have to fill in what happens yourself." 

[lulu1960]

Quote

Successfully watching Gilmore Girls requires suspending disbelief about both money and time because ASP has a sense of neither.  Remember that the wedding was going to have an open hot dog cart "all night" (evening wedding), yet when Luke and Lorelai were sitting at the dining room table eating pizza, one of them said that the wedding was ten hours away (morning wedding).  Kirk was awake, watching a movie, and feeding Petal when Lorelai texted him about the decorations (so apparently it was not crazy late/early), yet the next morning Rory and Lorelai are still at the gazebo in the same clothes from the night before and the sun is up and it's late enough in the day that Lorelai has had time to talk to Miss Patty about the flash mob music without Luke or Rory's knowledge.

At the very least the reception appears to have to be an early evening to dark kind of thing otherwise all the tinkle lights would be kind of wasted.

[mbaywife123]

What a rip-off of the Wizard of Oz when Rory was saying goodbye to the life and death brigade boys. (Think lion, tin man and scarecrow and Dorothy's going home speech).

The Wild storyline  was also weak. Once again Lorelai was too lazy to put in any hard work ( can't even hike for one damn day) to do anything that is challenging. The woman is perpetually stuck at 16 years old with her poor put upon woe is me damsel in distress attitude.

Lazy writing all around for four stupid final words not worth waiting for as Rory is 32 and who gives a shit if she is pregnant so that the folks of Stars Hollow can help raise her kid just like her mom.

Edited December 4, 2016 by mbaywife123
Missed a word