S01.E08: Pilgrim Rick

[Court]

We haven't seen when Rebecca married Miguel or how he treated the kids. I'm guessing they got married quickly after Jack's death and Miguel went too much in the direction of being I'm replacement Dad! That would account for the animosity

Miguel can have fun with Tess and Annie without trying to take over a tradition and whining. Go make your own tradition. Even if the adult kids loved Miguel, it would hurt seeing him wear the hat.That's my experience at least. 

 

. 

[kat165]

Clawdette, thank you for your post. I was wondering if Metz herself was going to get bypass surgery. I was 2nd-handedly embarrassed/sympathetic with her when she had the 2 seats and needed a seatbelt extension.
 It was brave of her to sign on for this show knowing that her weight would be a huge issue show-wise so now she has to confront her weight at work everyday. It sounds upsetting and exhausting.

[Cardie]

44 minutes ago, Dejana said:

Did I miss that she has an American/Canadian parent

Yes, she said her mother was American.

[memememe76]

This is the second time they mention Randall's incompetent assistant. Would something like gastric surgery be covered under insurance? And would someone need help after having such surgery? Gee, I wonder if Kate will move.

I need Kate to friggin love Miguel. I don't love that Rebecca has such troubled relationships with all of her kids. Even though I don't think it's a big deal she didn't remember the name of Kevin's play. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by memememe76

[Jx223]

I'm going to post information about Miguel/the kids relationship with him and the creator's plan on how they are going to write his relationship with Rebecca in the spoilers thread. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jx223

[TobinAlbers]

Gah! We finally get adult Randall and Kate in a scene and it's Randall running past her in tears as she enters, oblivious to his drama and so excited to share her decision to do gastric bypass that she read the room a beat too late. What a tease. I want actual adult Randall and Kate bro/sis time.

Speaking of Kate and Randall, a nice sweet touch in the flashback was when Pilgrim Jack 2.0 was pounding on the door and made the move to get into the room, you see young Kate place a protective, reassuring hand on Randall's back as they all shift on the bed not sure what was about to happen only to relax when they saw it was Jack. It was a nice interesting touch where normally a brother protects his sister but I get the sense that Randall may be seen as the baby of the trio and/or Kate takes on being a bit more big sis to Randall so she protects him. Add in that Kevin and Randall have a more 'equal' footing since they're boys (even though Kevin is older than Kate) and Kevin sometimes is the rough/cantankerous thing that Randall needs protection from when he's moody, Kate is Randall's protector while Kevin as Kate's big brother is her protector. 

It was nice for Kevin to allow a turn as Pilgrim Rick....and yet I was kind of miffed that he horned in on a Pearson family tradition that was passed from Jack to his kids. And no way do I believe Kevin and Randall worked out the shared hat system on their own, LOL. Kate had to have mediated that deal. I can see Randall saying if they were at his house, he gets to wear it period, with Kevin countering that they always have it at Randall's house and never come to his place in LA and so on.

Something about the way Mandy Moore plays Becca in present day screams to me that Becca endure some kind of serious heartbreak/trauma that's taken the fire out of her. She seems more meek/reserved in her interactions with the one exception being when she first confronted William about their deal. Becca still is fiercely protective of her kids and the claws come out but in all other respects she's pretty tame. I wonder if losing Jack broke her heart but she became determined to go through the motions and recover enough for her kids and grandkids with Miguel being part of that 'moving on' in action even as she's broken in her heart and spirit.

Randall jumping around the house like it was Christmas morning because it was Thanksgiving was joy. Then in the kitchen doing the robot and teasing Kevin about Olivia while basically making the entire dinner spread himself? Too cute. SKB did a marvelous job at showing Randall at such a high that when the end of the episode came, it underscored just how low and devastated Randall was when he learned of his mother's betrayal.

William's discussion about how it felt to be dying...whew. Beautifully written and performed.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

A This Is Us Thanksgiving Reminds Us That All Families Are Crazy In Their Own Way

And we might as well be thankful for it.

[Crs97]

Quote

Miguel can have fun with Tess and Annie without trying to take over a tradition and whining. Go make your own tradition.

I don't get the feeling there is a room for one of his traditions.  When he asked Kevin he mentioned all the traditions and wanting to be involved this one time in one of them.  I don't have a problem with him and didn't view him as whining or pouting.  Maybe it is because my love for Jack lessens each time they make him the most perfect dad who ever lived while Rebecca is just a screw-up who is to blame for any issue in her kids' life.  What is the male version of a Mary Sue?

[Artsda]

I loved the family traditions they made for themselves and the flashback that started it all. The wake up song, the movie, the pilgrim hat, the 3.4 mile hike, the corndog made of saltines and cheese.  Randall's excitement and happiness was so fun to watch until they blew it up.

Miguel and shut up and sit down. That was Jack's hat and his tradition to pass down to his sons, who had come to a plan to alternate years for their family. Miguel had NO business pouting and giving Kevin that face when Kevin was being the Pilgrim. 

Glad Kate showed up for Thanksgiving albeit really late.

[breezy424]

I really enjoyed the episode.

Sorry Miguel, I don't care how long you and Rebeca have been married, you don't try to take a tradition that was  initiated by the father of these kids.  It was a very 'personal' tradition started by Jack.  

I just can't stand Rebeca.  I think there's a coldness about her that I'm just not overcoming.  Yeah, I get there's problem with her mother but I still just can't feel her.  She should have told Randall about his father.  The guy is 36 years old.  He had a right to know.  I totally get his anger and feelings of betrayal.  More and more I feel that Rebeca is very selfish in a number of ways.  Even Jack felt, from what was said, that Randall had a right to know about his birth parents.

Kevin is growing on me more and more.  Olivia is cold but she apparently has a lot of baggage.  I'm kind of liking her.  And Kevin's growing relationship with her.  There seems to be a very sensitive person under the hard exterior.  I did laugh when she said to Randall that he must be the adopted one.  Yeah, it was a joke.  I also think her question to William about how does it feel to be dying was sincere.  However, she didn't expect the answer William gave her.  I'm glad she decided to not leave.

Soooo glad that Toby didn't come for Thanksgiving and Kate saying she needed a break.  Hopefully, she'll make the move east.  How awkward was her announcement about bypass?  I also felt for her on the plane.  I believe she didn't book that seat for Toby.  She did it for herself.  And how humiliating for her to feel the need to tell the other woman in the row not to worry.  She booked two seats.  And then the flight attendant with the expansion for the seat belt.  I admit I'm on the fence about obesity.  I go between feeling sympathy and thoughts of how can you let yourself get this way.  I get torn.  I'm also a person who was overweight as a teenager (not nearly as much as Kate) but I lost the weight.  And kept it off the rest of my life (OK, I did have pregnancy weight but I successfully dealt with it afterwards).  I get it but I don't get it.  I could write a whole essay but I'll refrain. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by breezy424

[Court]

11 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I don't get the feeling there is a room for one of his traditions.  When he asked Kevin he mentioned all the traditions and wanting to be involved this one time in one of them.  I don't have a problem with him and didn't view him as whining or pouting.  Maybe it is because my love for Jack lessens each time they make him the most perfect dad who ever lived while Rebecca is just a screw-up who is to blame for any issue in her kids' life.  What is the male version of a Mary Sue?

He's involved in all the others such as the yarn, movie, hike, and hot dogs. It doesn't matter if Jack is perfect or not in this case. I get the feeling from the next preview he wasn't perfect.

Spoiler

I believe Rebecca told him about William and he also kept the secret from Randall.

It matters that it's a tradition their dad created and didn't get to do it for his grandkids. Randall and Jack have carried it on in memory of their dad. 

He wasn't smiling or laughing when Kevin came in to do the Pilgrim Rick thing. He sat there stone faced.

I have a great relationship with my step grandmother.  Sometimes when I see her at the house or doing something my Grandmother used to do, it's an absolute gut punch. I imagine it's the same or worse when you don't have a good relationship with the person. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Court

[Crs97]

Quote

He's involved in all the others such as the yarn, movie, hike, and hot dogs

There is no involvement there.  He has no more to do with any of those traditions than Olivia or William or any stranger who happened to wander into the house that day.  They have made it very clear to him that he can never be a member of the family and is lucky to be barely tolerated.  He smiles through the rude comments and clearly tries time after time to connect with kids who spit on him for his troubles.  I'm sure their dad would be so proud at how they treat their mother and his best friend.

[memememe76]

Rebecca gets grief for her high pitched behaviour when she's around her parents, but Randall gets sympathy for showing major disrespect to her mother in front of his two girls. Randall really has a thing for drama.

I get that people don't like Miguel but to make fun of his name? What's wrong with his name? 

[Court]

Where the heck are Miguel's kids? I haven't seen him trying to connect in any way with the adult kids. The grandkids, yes.  Randall has obviously let his kids have a relationship with his kids considering they call him Grandpa. 

 

I don't see saying no to Miguel as rude. I think him asking was rude. I did think Randall didn't greet him as warmly on the drop in but other than that he seems to treat him fine. We have yet to see Kate interact with him so we can't make a judgment there. 

If wearing the hat is the only way to be involved, then I suppose Rebecca, Kate and the others aren't involved either. It's not like they're disinviting Miguel. 

For all we know, Miguel deserves the animosity. Or maybe he doesn't. I just have sympathy for the kids. Having a parent remarry is tough even when the other parent is alive. Jack is gone, so that makes it worse.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Court

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Randomosity said:

I didn't read this as it being Toby's seat. I feel like someone Kate's size would be a candidate for voluntarily purchasing two seats for herself to make it easier on all involved.

She would definitely need 2 seats. She might even need 2 first class seats. I'm about 40 lbs overweight and I'm uncomfortable in coach seats. I cant imagine her fitting in a coach seat.

[izabella]

35 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Something about the way Mandy Moore plays Becca in present day screams to me that Becca endure some kind of serious heartbreak/trauma that's taken the fire out of her. She seems more meek/reserved in her interactions with the one exception being when she first confronted William about their deal. Becca still is fiercely protective of her kids and the claws come out but in all other respects she's pretty tame. I wonder if losing Jack broke her heart but she became determined to go through the motions and recover enough for her kids and grandkids with Miguel being part of that 'moving on' in action even as she's broken in her heart and spirit.

I've noticed this and wondered about it, too.  She doesn't say much in the present, and seems distant or subdued.   I wasn't sure if Mandy Moore was playing her as just mellowed with age, or if the writers are showing how Jack's death changed her.

I suspect Kate might be the most upset with Miguel.  She was daddy's girl, and she keeps his ashes - they were close, so she would likely have a hard time with anyone who seemed to be stepping into Jack's place in her mother's life.  

Kate scene with Toby was wonderful.  I really felt how hard that was for her to do.  Her timing in telling about her decision to get surgery wasn't quite right, but she'd just had a life-or-death moment, so I get how urgent it must have felt for her to share that as soon as she walked in the door.

Poor Randall. 

[chocolatine]

While it was up to Rebecca to decide what to tell or not to tell Randall about William when Randall was a child, she should have told him after he turned 18, especially since Rebecca knew that William was sober by then and thus wouldn't be a negative influence. I can't blame Randall for being so hurt and angry at her.

Not only was Miguel out of line to ask to be Pilgrim Rick, he also barged in while Kevin was trying to have a special moment with Olivia (whom I still can't stand, but that's not the point). Shut up, Miguel.

At first I thought Toby was being presumptuous to think he was going to Kate's family Thanksgiving, but then it sounded like Randall had been expecting him, so if Kate invited him and then broke up with him right before the holiday, that's a shitty move on her part. I've never watched a show where a character (and therefore the actor) went through gastric bypass, so I'm curious to see how that plays out. 

The original Pilgrim Rick story was a bit too "magical" for me, though I completely understand why the kids cherish the memory and keep observing the traditions.

[buckboard]

Why isn't Kate ever allowed to be Pilgrim Rick, if it's a tradition handed down to the kids

Edited November 23, 2016 by buckboard

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 minutes ago, buckboard said:

Why isn't Kate every allowed to be Pilgrim Rick, if it's a tradition handed down to the kids?

I hypothesize that she doesn't want to do it; she may feel it should be one of the guys.

[Dowel Jones]

Wow.  Major epic buzzkill for a T-Day dinner.  I felt so bad for Randall.  That had to be a long drive back to his house.  When I saw him in William's apartment, I said "grab that trumpet", but that point was soon moot.

I am tempted to give Olivia a pass on her question to William about death.  I thought that in the play she was a wife/partner who had died, but was still connected to Kevin's character.  Maybe she wanted some real life insight.

I loved those impromptu "traditions" that Jack established.  Especially, after nearly 30 years, Police Academy 3 (the best movie ever made!).  And getting rid of Rebecca's mom's itchy sweater in the bargain.

Randall is quite the cook. 

 

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

I was wondering if Metz herself was going to get bypass surgery

Chrissy to producers:  You'll pay for the gastric bypass surgery?  Deal!

[breezy424]

 On a shallow note, congrats to all of us who concluded that  Randall lives in New Jersey.  I still am trying to figure out where he lives given that it was supposed to be about an hour drive to Phillie.   Being a person who has lived in an area most of their life, these details are 'important'.  :)

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, breezy424 said:

 On a shallow note, congrats to all of us who concluded that  Randall lives in New Jersey.  I still am trying to figure out where he lives given that it was supposed to be about an hour drive to Phillie.   Being a person who has lived in an area most of their life, these details are 'important'.  :)

I thought it was kind of funny that in the online aftershow, Chrissy thought that Randall lived in Connecticut or New York! (And no one corrected her.)

Edited November 23, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[bros402]

43 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

 On a shallow note, congrats to all of us who concluded that  Randall lives in New Jersey.  I still am trying to figure out where he lives given that it was supposed to be about an hour drive to Phillie.   Being a person who has lived in an area most of their life, these details are 'important'.  :)

Seems sort of like the Cherry Hill area - though that is more like 30-40 minutes to Philly (though, depending on where William's apartment is...).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, bros402 said:

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

 On a shallow note, congrats to all of us who concluded that  Randall lives in New Jersey.  I still am trying to figure out where he lives given that it was supposed to be about an hour drive to Phillie.   Being a person who has lived in an area most of their life, these details are 'important'.  :)

Seems sort of like the Cherry Hill area - though that is more like 30-40 minutes to Philly (though, depending on where William's apartment is...).

Did anyone wonder if Randall would find a cat corpse there?  RIP Clooney?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Bean421]

Rebecca's parents were icing Randall out of pictures?! Grandma needs to not show up in my screen, but I'm sure she will one day. So clearly little Randall was getting all kinds of messages that he didn't belong (not from Jack or Rebecca) which makes this secret so devastating. 

Olivia can also exit stage right and take Miguel with her.

Adult Big Three next week!

Edited November 23, 2016 by Bean421

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Looooooooved how excited Randall was about Thanksgiving! I personally do not get super excited about it (I don't dislike Thanksgiving or anything, but I enjoy Christmas much more - heh, probably because I like twinkly lights and sparkly tinsel and we get to eat a rib roast instead of turkey). It was adorable how he jumped out of bed (and that his alarm was "You Can Call Me Al"), woke everyone up (my favorite was him jumping on Kevin's bed - total sibling thing to do), and was practically doing cartwheels in the kitchen. 

Miguel can suck it. I don't care how long he's been their stepfather. Pilgrim Rick's hat is something that Jack did for the kids and they have chosen to carry on the tradition, so he has no right to ask to do that. It's not a generic tradition like singing certain Christmas songs. That was something that their father did for them to make a shitty day better. I get wanting to be included, but I'm sure he knows the origin of the whole hat thing which makes it dickish of him to ask to do it. I know it can be difficult to join a family, particularly as a step-parent, but this is not the way to make things easier. I'm not even part of this family and I was offended on their behalf.

There were a few moments where I started to like Olivia a little bit. I'm lucky that I get along with most of my family and Mr. EB's family, but there are two really unbearable relatives (one in my family, one in Mr. EB's family) that are difficult to be around. If I had several relatives like that, I can totally understand why she would not want to spend Thanksgiving with them. But then she lost me when she walked away from pie. What kind of a person turns down pie, especially after her story about never getting to pie because of her horrible family? TAKE THE PIE! But I loved at the end of the episode after Randall confronted Rebecca when Olivia turned to Kevin and said, "Your family is wonderful!"

Rebecca's family sounds like they suck too. Telling Randall to get out of the picture? DICK MOVE. Thank goodness Rebecca lost her temper and told them she and her family weren't coming to Thanksgiving. A six hour drive is way too much of an effort just to have a miserable time. Honestly, I think that if your relatives are more than two hours away, you are excused from making the trip.

7 hours ago, willco said:

I hate the "Say what you are thankful for" stuff at Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for many things, but I hate being put on the spot in a room full of people. If I want to say it, I will, but don't expect me to announce it to the whole room. I'm probably alone in that, though.

As an adult, I dislike that too, but I can definitely see why Rebecca decided to do that the first year. While I don't think it needs to be done every year, I think it's a nice idea to remind kids (and adults) about being thankful, especially after what could have been a disastrous Thanksgiving became something fun and enjoyable.

7 hours ago, random chance said:

True, now it's always going to be the holiday where he learned his mom betrayed him, even if he forgives her. P.S. never choose a holiday as your wedding date, this has been a public service announcement.

ITA and I will add never choose a holiday or a birthday or propose either.

6 hours ago, memememe76 said:

This is the second time they mention Randall's incompetent assistant. Would something like gastric surgery be covered under insurance? And would someone need help after having such surgery? Gee, I wonder if Kate will move.

I need Kate to friggin love Miguel. I don't love that Rebecca has such troubled relationships with all of her kids. Even though I don't think it's a big deal she didn't remember the name of Kevin's play. 

It depends on your insurance. Where I work, we have five different plans to choose from. The most basic one sucks but it's cheaper. The fanciest one covers all kinds of stuff but it's expensive. I think that a lot of insurance plans allow gastric bypass if you are considered medically obese, but you may still need to pay for a portion of it depending on what your deducible is (that's true of a lot of surgeries though - your insurance company will approve the surgery but how much you pay varies based on which policy you have).

In theory, I don't think it's a big deal that Rebecca didn't remember the name of Kevin's play but I think it's a big deal to Kevin because we've seen that he has felt like the ignored/neglected sibling since he was a kid. When he and Randall fought a few weeks ago, not only did Randall admit that he didn't watch Kevin's show but Kevin said that he had invited all of them to come see his show being filmed in LA and Kate was the only one who came, so I think Kevin feels like no one but Kate really supports his career or cares enough to give a shit about what he's doing. In other words, he still feels ignored/neglected by his family (except Kate).

5 hours ago, Crs97 said:

my love for Jack lessens each time they make him the most perfect dad who ever lived while Rebecca is just a screw-up who is to blame for any issue in her kids' life.  What is the male version of a Mary Sue?

Gary Stu. No joke.

[Randomosity]

5 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

She would definitely need 2 seats. She might even need 2 first class seats. I'm about 40 lbs overweight and I'm uncomfortable in coach seats. I cant imagine her fitting in a coach seat.

People who 'need' two seats more often than not still squish themselves into one, in my experience. To the detriment of those of us who don't want our bubble intruded upon... Which is why I end up choosing window, so I can plaster myself up against the wall in the extra 1.5 inches of arm space if need be.

Do first class arm rests go up? The few times I've been upgraded, I believe the arm rests are fixed, meaning coach is better for those who exceed 1 seat.

[HeyThere83]

Olivia didn't bother me in this episode. Her personality/sense of humor really stand out on this show (not necessarily in a bad way). I thought the actress was able to convey that something was bothering her when she gave the pie back. But didn't her and Kevin seriously JUST meet...how are they having passionate kisses already? It was the same with Kate/Toby. Insta Insta.

[JudyObscure]

While I agree that it was insensitive of Miguel to ask to wear the Pilgrim hat, I also think the boys could have let him have a turn without such a fuss.  Miguel may well have been part of this family, and shared in Thanksgiving with them, for as long as 20 years.  To him it probably isn't a father son tradition so much as a Thanksgiving tradition and he obviously wanted to entertain his granddaughters.  Yes, his.  He was probably there at Randall's wedding and the birth of the girls and shared in everything from broken arms to dance recitals.  I get why  Rebecca's kids would resent him while they were teenagers but they're grown-ups now and should be way, way past the, "You're not my father, so I hate you," phase.  I've seen this play out in my own -- extended -- family and the need to semi-shun someone in the group puts a damper on all the warmth of the occasion.  It must hurt Rebecca and remind her of Thanksgiving at her parents' house when her son was not fully accepted because he wasn't a blood relative.

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Randall jumping around the house like it was Christmas morning because it was Thanksgiving was joy. Then in the kitchen doing the robot and teasing Kevin about Olivia while basically making the entire dinner spread himself? Too cute. SKB did a marvelous job at showing Randall at such a high that when the end of the episode came, it underscored just how low and devastated Randall was when he learned of his mother's betrayal.

It was fun to watch and man, do I want a spouse who has the whole meal going before I even get down to the kitchen.  But he was pretty darn manic throughout, and we've seen him quite intense before.  I wonder if he's heading for a breakdown of some kind.  I would have thought he would have told William that the hike was 3.4 miles before they started off.  That's way too far for someone in William's condition. 

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I guess Olivia's overriding personality trait is utter rudeness?  "You're the adopted one."  To Randall, um... really? And then "How does it feel to die." To Wiliam.  Seriously.  Who says that to a stranger?  She was uniformly terrible.

Remember she's the one who crashed a funeral to watch how people mourn.  It's part of her research for acting.  On the other hand she's a device for bringing out Kevin's compassion and sweetness.  Olivia lacks emotions but Kevin has an abundance.  He didn't have to cede the hat to Miguel, he had a valid reason not to, but it was kind of him to do so anyway.  

8 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Why didn’t William go with Randall? I know he’s ill but he could’ve rode in the car with William

It was a surprise.  Unfortunately Randall was on the receiving end.  Surprise!  Poor Randall.  His favorite holiday will never be the same.  And wait till he finds out Beth already knew.  Oh, boy.

[DrSpaceman73]

I am wondering if the mention of his mom not recalling the name of his play is just evidence of the distance between the two of the them or is a hint that she could have a medical problem, like the beginnings of dementia. 

 

Probably the former, but you never know on TV shows when they throw in lines like that

[Jx223]

8 hours ago, memememe76 said:

 

I need Kate to friggin love Miguel. I don't love that Rebecca has such troubled relationships with all of her kids. Even though I don't think it's a big deal she didn't remember the name of Kevin's play. 

I had wondered what type of state that Kevin and Rebecca's relationship would be in and so far it seems to be in a decent state. Their relationship didn't seem to be very strained and I was glad to see that.

Granted he does have issues with how he felt she treated Randall vs. him and doesn't like Miguel much. But Kevin and Rebecca seemed to get along fine and shared a nice moment after he let Miguel be Pilgrim Rick. She was loving towards him during their interactions and was trying to inquire more about what was going on in his life.

She did forget what the name of his play was but I think that the situation with Randall/William was weighing heavily on her mind. And she could be getting more forgetful as she's aging. Kevin mentioned that he told her like "eight times" about name of the play which suggests he's been talking to her regularly.

There may be a bit more awkwardness showed in her and Kate's upcoming interaction but I think she will be loving towards Kate as well. I think that her relationship with Randall right now is the most frayed but hopefully he will forgive her.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jx223

[Bluedog100]

Apologies if this was mentioned and I missed it.  But regarding Randall's feelings for Miguel, when Becca and Miguel first stopped by Randall's home on their way to the theatre, Randall had a throwaway line that many may have missed.  When telling them goodbye Randall said to Miguel, "thanks for stopping by without calling."  Or "thanks for stopping by unexpectedly."  Something to the effect that made it sound it a little bit caustic.  There was no affection there.

[photo fox]

7 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I get that people don't like Miguel but to make fun of his name? What's wrong with his name? 

Who was making fun of his name? I missed it. 

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Maybe it is because my love for Jack lessens each time they make him the most perfect dad who ever lived while Rebecca is just a screw-up who is to blame for any issue in her kids' life.  What is the male version of a Mary Sue?

Gary Stu.

I see your point about Jack being too perfect, but I often wonder if we're really seeing objective reality. Or are we viewing events through the eyes of the Pearsons? Since Jack is dead, I can see why they'd remember only the best things about him. (I had the same thought at Randall's daughter's play, when nobody else seemed to see what he - and we - were seeing.)

[SadieT]

I loved Randall’s enthusiasm for Thanksgiving and was kind of annoyed with Beth for insisting Rebecca tell him the truth right then and ruin his favorite holiday. The thing about painful family secrets is they don’t magically disappear overnight so I see no harm in letting the man enjoy one last family holiday before shattering his world. Obviously it didn't matter in the end anyway because he found out on his own, but still. 

Hope Kate’s breakup with Toby sticks. I really felt for Kate when she got on the plane and realized everyone was looking at her hoping she wouldn’t be sitting next to them. As long as she’s healthy enough to undergo the surgery, I think gastric bypass is actually a smart decision for her but I think she’ll end up backing out for one reason or another. 

As for Rebecca forgetting the name of Kevin’s play, on it’s own it might seem like a small thing but I get why it bothered him. We learned last episode that she never bothered to go see a taping of his show when he was on The Manny, and now she can’t even recall the title of the play he’s so excited to be doing, despite Kevin having told her “like 8 times,” according to him, yet she can remember Randall’s latest assistant’s name? Seems like a lack of effort or interest on her part when it comes to Kevin so I don’t blame him for being upset. 

 

Miguel shouldn’t have asked to wear the hat.

Edited November 23, 2016 by SadieT

[WoodyCee]

Where are Miguel's kids? He had kids with his first wife right?

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, WoodyCee said:

Where are Miguel's kids? He had kids with his first wife right?

I was wondering about that too.  Maybe they're on the other side of the country (or in another part of the world).  Maybe he and Shelly had a rough divorce and the kids hate him.  Or maybe they're dead.

Edited November 23, 2016 by PRgal

[mtlchick]

10 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also, young Kevin once again brings the best quote.  "We get it dad, we can call him Al."  after listening to Graceland for hours.  Ha!

This and his now famous "Where's Kevin? Oh yeah, he's dead" makes him my favourite casting out of all of the siblings (kids and teens.) 

Edited November 23, 2016 by mtlchick

[Court]

2 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I was wondering about that too.  Maybe they're on the other side of the country (or in another part of the world).  Maybe he and Shelly had a rough divorce and the kids hate him.  Or maybe they're dead.

Or he abandoned them to marry Rebecca. What if Jack and Shelly die in a car accident together? I find it odd that there hasn't been a throwaway line about the step-siblings. But I suppose that would be another twist.

I agree that Annie and Tess are Miguel's grandkids. The fact, that to him it's a Thanksgiving tradition is exactly the issue for me. It matters what it is to the adult kids. He's ignoring the fact that it's a father/son tradition to the adult kids. It's a way they honor their father and can share a memory of him together. Miguel made it all about him and it isn't. There's a million other ways he can have fun with his grandkids.

[Crs97]

We  already know that Kate and Rebecca barely talk because Kate was mad growing up that Rebecca is thin.  My guess is that Rebecca will express concern about the surgery, Kate will blow up that Rebecca is not being supportive, and she will have yet another estrangement.

I just realized that the kids on Thanksgiving reminded me of the movie The Family Stone.  I hate that movie.

[MissT]

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

 On a shallow note, congrats to all of us who concluded that  Randall lives in New Jersey.  I still am trying to figure out where he lives given that it was supposed to be about an hour drive to Phillie.   Being a person who has lived in an area most of their life, these details are 'important'.  :)

I think he lives in NJ as well.   BTW -- the short cut for Philadelphia is Philly --- no "ie" at the end.    Lived here all my life.  

I love the show and I still want to know what happened to the cat -- anyone?

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did anyone wonder if Randall would find a cat corpse there?  RIP Clooney?

 

9 minutes ago, MissT said:

I love the show and I still want to know what happened to the cat -- anyone?

Now that William talked about his sober-living friends and how they had Thanksgiving and jammed together, my head canon is that one of those fine people has Clooney.

Speaking of William, I agree with the PTV recap that I don't like how he is being written to dispense pearls of wisdom to cause other characters to suddenly get a light bulb over their head.  I would much rather have them use the short time he has left to explore his years of knowing tangentially what Randall was doing but completely cut out of a physical presence in his son's life.  That would be so interesting, and the guy is a fine actor.

[Biggie B]

In the discussion of last week's episode, I'd stated that Rebecca and William had stayed in touch through the years. It was pointed out that that was not likely correct and, not having anything but what I thought was my mistaken impression, I acquiesced. I'm happy to see that I was right (even if only by accident!) and that Rebecca and William had indeed maintained some sort of contact through the years, even if only sporadically, making the "secret" even more weighty.

Wow, I cannot stand Olivia. What an asshole. Even if she meant the "You're the adopted one" remark as a dry, deadpan joke, it FAILED. I get that she had/has major issues with her family, which may be completely legitimate - but for one day, you can compartmentalize them and be a gracious guest. Or, don't go, if it's going to trigger such horrible feelings. Again, I don't begrudge Olivia for being bitter about her family and its impact on her, but clearly, she doesn't have any coping mechanisms to control or deal with those feelings and it negatively affects her ability to interact with others, to the point where she is unable to maintain any sort of decorum or social grace. She really shouldn't have gone. However, since she did decide to go, she owed it to Kevin and his family to at least FAKE being polite, even if she was seething and roiling on the inside. Her talk with William was ridiculous - asking a complete and total stranger about his impending death. William shouldn't have even acknowledged her! But he is a special unicorn, gracious to the nth degree, so when he chastised her, I cheered. Her hissy fit was completely inappropriate for a so-called adult. Even if she was freaking out, she could have politely thanked Beth and Randall, feigned illness, and quietly gone home. She might as well have flung herself down on the floor and had a full-blown toddler-esque temper tantrum. I loathe her - she can join Toby off screen, please.

Who in their right mind would dress their kids up in uncomfortable dress clothing and then expect them to sit in the car like angels for a 6 hour drive!???? The logistics of that seemed insane: driving 6 hours on Thanksgiving day to dinner - and then what, driving home that same night? Perhaps they were going to stay overnight and we, the viewers, didn't see their luggage, as it was left behind in their disabled car? Still, wouldn't it have been more logical to drive to Rebecca's parents the night before? Of course, this all needed to happen as it did so as to set up the entire episode - the origins of their Thanksgiving traditions.

I found it odd that Rebecca quoted Jack verbatim ("There's no one I'd rather be hot or cold with," etc). Miguel must, by now, know the origin of each of the traditions, so what must it make him feel to hear his wife quoting her former husband? I thought that was uncomfortable. On the other hand, Miguel definitely seemed out of line asking to wear the hat. These traditions are virtually holy to this family, and while some of the rituals might shift a little through the years, or adapt, it's not his call to make. It ended up well, but was still very, very awkward at first.

I am always a guest at my sister's for Thanksgiving, and I don't cook, but isn't it more helpful to prepare much of the feast (not the turkey, of course) in advance, or at least, prep the night before? Most people I know who are cooking for the big day bake their desserts a day or so before, and get many of the other dishes ready and refrigerated so that on Turkey Day itself, they are just putting on the finishing touches and then putting them in the oven. No? Randall being Randall, the perfectionist he is, he managed to get every single thing done that morning, but is that usual?

Kate - glad she is with her brothers, although we didn't get any interaction amongst them all, but hopefully that will follow. I do wonder if the actress herself is actually going to have that surgery? Perhaps Kate will go for a consult and be told she's not a good candidate, and that's how they could sidestep it? We'll see. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we are done with Toby.

All of my nitpicking aside (where was Clooney the cat??? Is he gone?), I enjoyed this episode very much. It was painful to watch Randall - when he said, "I can't even LOOK at you!" to Rebecca - wow - brutal - you could see and hear his heart ripping in half.

Quote

didn't her and Kevin seriously JUST meet...how are they having passionate kisses already?

They had sex - or at least, went at each other like crazed weasels - at the wake they attended together, so even though they just recently met, they've been pretty intimate already, even if fleetingly.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Biggie B

[ShadowFacts]

15 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I am always a guest at my sister's for Thanksgiving, and I don't cook, but isn't it more helpful to prepare much of the feast (not the turkey, of course) in advance, or at least, prep the night before? Most people I know who are cooking for the big day bake their desserts a day or so before, and get many of the other dishes ready and refrigerated so that on Turkey Day itself, they are just putting on the finishing touches and then putting them in the oven. No? Randall being Randall, the perfectionist he is, he managed to get every single thing done that morning, but is that usual?

No, I don't think it's usual.  Yes, absolutely you make things ahead, unless your circumstances are such that you just can't.  I even make the turkey the day before (will do it later today) because we've not had that tradition of bringing it to the table, then carving (don't even know how people do that).  But Randall is so Type A that he is doing it in one fell swoop.  More power to him, but to me that would be unnecessarily stressful.  By the end of the episode, he is stressed to the max, poor guy.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My mother always made everything the day of Thanksgiving. My mother in law does the same thing. I think it just depends on your M.O. Some people like to make everything the day of while other people prefer to get a head start the day before. I personally prefer to prepare ahead of time because I hate waking up early, so I'm all for anything I can do beforehand that will allow me to stay in bed for an extra ten minutes (or two hours).

[jackjill89]

1 hour ago, photo fox said:

Who was making fun of his name? I missed it. 

Gary Stu.

I see your point about Jack being too perfect, but I often wonder if we're really seeing objective reality. Or are we viewing events through the eyes of the Pearsons? Since Jack is dead, I can see why they'd remember only the best things about him. (I had the same thought at Randall's daughter's play, when nobody else seemed to see what he - and we - were seeing.)

That's what I think. When someone dies, especially early, we tend to romanticize them. My parents are both gone. They were human, had their faults, but what I remember is those moments of perfection. I remember the good and don't dwell on anything negative.  If anyone ever asks, my dad was the best dad ever. No question. Growing up did I always think that -- uh, no -- but that's how I remember him. 

[VioletNevermind]

Ugh, I haven't had a show hit me so hard in the feels in a long, long time.  A few noteworthy moments:

* I pounded the coffee table in solidarity with Little Randall when he said that he hated the fact that his grandparents asked for one picture "just with the twins."  What completely transparent assholes.  That would have been the last time my son was expected to attend.  Good for him for being so honest with his mother.

* Dad/Milo's saving of Thanksgiving.  His ideas reminded me of things my mother did when I was a kid.  When things went haywire, she still managed to find a way to make things fun and pretty soon, we forgot all about how sucky things were.  That is an underappreciated gift that some people just naturally have.

* I was a bit disappointed that Kevin tossed the pilgrim hat to Miguel.  Like many of you, I have nothing good to say about Miguel.  For that reason, I hope they let us know how he and Rebecca got together soon.  I'm sure the writers have a method to their madness and will let us know at the perfect time (and everything will make perfect sense), but until then, everything Miguel does and says will be suspect for me.  If I had been Kevin, I would have covered that pilgrim hat in Thanksgiving gravy and eaten it before I would have allowed Miguel to wear it.

*  I love all of the little past/future tie-ins on this show.  My favorites this week were the annual Thanksgiving 3.4-mile walk and the hot dog/Kraft singles/cracker crumb dish that was placed on the modern-day Thanksgiving table before everyone sat down.  I'm a sucker for those little touches in real life, too.  Randall (and Sterling K. Brown) is the shining star of this cast and show.  He's a gem among a family of pieces of work.

* Go sit your keister down somewhere, Toby.  I'm thrilled that Kate dis-invited him to Thanksgiving.  I hope that their "break" sticks.  I've disliked Toby's attention-seeking ass from day one.  I've watched the aftermath of gastric bypass surgery unfold four times in real life with friends and to say that it's not pretty is a major understatement. To be honest, I would qualify for the surgery, myself, and that's the main reason I haven't taken the plunge. It affects every single area of your life and if you don't follow the post-surgical rules regarding portion sizes to the letter, you'll pay for it in spades. The idea of Kate remaining with non-dieting Toby after surgery is laughable. He would make it all about himself and continue to eat anything he wanted in her presence "because Kate said it was okay." No, you horse's ass, she's just trying to be nice. You should NOT eat cheesecake and chocolate in front of her no matter what she says to reassure you that it's okay. Ugh, I hate Toby.

* While I dislike that Randall found out about his mother's secret on Thanksgiving and it unfolded at the table, I can't blame him one bit for being so upset. She should have told him the truth when he was 18 and could choose to have a relationship with him or not, but I can also understand why she didn't. She didn't want to upset Randall's applecart just as he was beginning a new phase of his life and I'm sure she didn't want to "share" her son. I can totally understand her reluctance to disrupt their family dynamic, and some would argue that Randall's father didn't deserve to have access to the biological son he willingly gave up. However, the fact that she maintained a written correspondence with him all those years changes everything. I hope this doesn't set Randall on a bad path after all the success he's achieved in every area of his life, but I fear that it will.

* As for Olivia . . . no.

Edited November 23, 2016 by SuzyLee

[topanga]

12 hours ago, Valny said:

Ruh roh! Mom gets busted. That was a rough ending. Poor Randall. But if it was me, I wouldn't have confronted her in front of the family, would have done it in private.... because I don't like scenes.

That scene was painful yet well-acted by the cast. I felt bad that Kate walked into a room of stony faces and had no idea what was going on. One pet peeve: Randall kept asking his mother questions but wouldn't let her talk. He actually told her, "Don't speak" after asking her a direct question. I hate, hate when people to that to me. Not that anything she said would make things okay, but give Rebecca a chance to say something. 

 

10 hours ago, Court said:

Miguel can have fun with Tess and Annie without trying to take over a tradition and whining. Go make your own tradition. Even if the adult kids loved Miguel, it would hurt seeing him wear the hat.That's my experience at least. 

I agree with everyone who said Miguel needs to take two seats. Him and his bad make-up job. 

 

1 hour ago, SadieT said:

 

I loved Randall’s enthusiasm for Thanksgiving and was kind of annoyed with Beth for insisting Rebecca tell him the truth right then and ruin his favorite holiday. The thing about painful family secrets is they don’t magically disappear overnight so I see no harm in letting the man enjoy one last family holiday before shattering his world. Obviously it didn't matter in the end anyway because he found out on his own, but still. 

 

But Beth's whole point was that she and Randall don't believe in keeping secrets from one another. She'd been holding onto that secret for three days and could barely keep from talking to Randall, she was so miserable. And since this is the kind of discussion that needed to happen face to face, and Rebecca was there, the conversation needed to happen that day.  It certainly could've waited till after dinner, but Randall's trip to Philly changed everything. 

And I agree with the poster (I can't find you, FSR) who said that Randall seemed a little manic. I agree, in the sense that his enthusiasm didn't allow him to react to any of the people around him. His own emotional state was all he could see. I'm not trying to diagnose Randall with bipolar disorder. Maybe he was just being child-like. But he did seem a little manic.