Post-Election Fears & Anxieties

[Chaos Theory]

To be fair I thought I'd mention I conversation I had with my father who is a Trump supporter.  He is also a good and fair man and a man I both love and respect.  When I mentioned a lot of my fears about Trump my father said he would never have voted for Trump if he believed Trump was anti gay, black or female.  My father does watch a lot of news shows and being retired he watches a lot more then me and reads news papers both conservative and liberal so I am willing to at least believe he believes Trump is who he thinks he is and not the monster I think he is.  

I think right now a lot of people are scared and maybe for good reason but I am also wondering if that fear is of our own making and not what is realy happening.  

[windsprints]

Quote

not what is realy happening

Except it is happening. People here have posted that its happening in their towns and in their children's schools now, a few days after Trump being elected.  Read here for more examples: https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/with_replies

[NinjaPenguins]

There's a very good reason Trump supporters aren't in this thread calling us racist and dumb - they've discovered it's much more fun to taunt us face to face. Like my co-worker who proudly admits to enjoying the "commie's" fear and despair. I've tried to put myself in his shoes, but it's been a struggle since I'm apparently not wired for sadism. 

Trump had his chance with all Americans while he was campaigning for president. He told me who was. I believed him. 

[Revlonred]

25 minutes ago, Padma said:

he will be so miserable living in the White House that he will soon resign (for health reasons--maybe Melania's as I don't think his pride would let him claim his own weakness was the reason).

I said this to someone the other day.  As a New Yorker, he has been in my news my whole life, and I believe that he wanted to lose, complain about losing, start his TV network, make YUGE amounts of money, be on TV, preach to his followers to applause and chants...he does not want this job.  He also wants to live in his golden tower.  But he would never show "weakness", BUT he would say a family member is ill/unwell and he must step down to care for him/her (barf).  

[Padma]

10 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

To be fair I thought I'd mention I conversation I had with my father who is a Trump supporter.  He is also a good and fair man and a man I both love and respect.  When I mentioned a lot of my fears about Trump my father said he would never have voted for Trump if he believed Trump was anti gay, black or female.  My father does watch a lot of news shows and being retired he watches a lot more then me and reads news papers both conservative and liberal so I am willing to at least believe he believes Trump is who he thinks he is and not the monster I think he is.  

I think right now a lot of people are scared and maybe for good reason but I am also wondering if that fear is of our own making and not what is realy happening.  

I'm sorry about your father. But if he's been paying attention and hasn't seen the horrible things Trump has said about Latinos and women (maybe you could not have seen the other two), I hardly know what to say.  Is he only watching "Hannity" for his news shows? Because I understand people who say, "I like what he says" a lot more than those who deny ugly racist and sexist remarks that are very well documented and imo impossible to miss.  Perhaps something else is at work there? It would be interesting to know what, if it is.

I had a co-worker (college educated, volunteers her time every week to teach English to immigrants). She told me yesterday that she voted for Trump. "The first time I saw him speak, I knew he had my vote." I couldn't carry on the conversation--curious, but too upset myself to deal with it at that time. Maybe later.

6 minutes ago, NinjaPenguins said:

There's a very good reason Trump supporters aren't in this thread calling us racist and dumb - they've discovered it's much more fun to taunt us face to face. Like my co-worker who proudly admits to enjoying the "commie's" fear and despair. I've tried to put myself in his shoes, but it's been a struggle since I'm apparently not wired for sadism. 

Trump had his chance with all Americans while he was campaigning for president. He told me who was. I believed him. 

Yes. Someone pointed out how Clinton supporters keep trying to understand the Trump voters and offer "nice" reasons for them to have chosen him--economic anxiety "that's real", frustration with Washington "that's real", hope he can fix health care and jobs--real problems that need fresh ideas--etc. etc. 

But has anyone heard a Trump supporter do the same for us?  Any Trump commentators or fans saying, "Well, they are not practical, but they're very idealistic. I understand that they're misguided, but they really thought Clinton would help make America more equal--less economic differences for one, less influence of bankers and big money in politics--and that she would bring people together with respect for all races, religions, LBGT rights, Also protect the environment and fight global warming, and promote a more peaceful world. They're wrong of course (because she's a criminal who should be in prison), but I understand their intentions were good."

Anyone hearing anything like that from commentators or Trump supporters? No? I didn't think so either.

[parisprincess]

sistermagpie, I also read about him going to an event uninvited (the opening of a new school, I think) and sitting on the stage with the donors, which of course made everyone think he had donated, which he did not. I also read that he had a small caterer do his wedding to Marla Maples and, when presented with the invoice, told her that he wasn't going to pay her because by catering his wedding, she'd get a lot of new business.  

[Chicken Wing]

23 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

To be fair I thought I'd mention I conversation I had with my father who is a Trump supporter.  He is also a good and fair man and a man I both love and respect.  When I mentioned a lot of my fears about Trump my father said he would never have voted for Trump if he believed Trump was anti gay, black or female.  My father does watch a lot of news shows and being retired he watches a lot more then me and reads news papers both conservative and liberal so I am willing to at least believe he believes Trump is who he thinks he is and not the monster I think he is.  

I think right now a lot of people are scared and maybe for good reason but I am also wondering if that fear is of our own making and not what is realy happening.  

But it is happening.

And with much respect to your father, I think it's the situation where some people choose to see what they want to see and/or rationalize the other parts, while other people see it all and realize that this actually is what it is.

Trump, to me, is the not really the "obvious" sort of bigot and racist. It's not like he's going around spouting the n-word or saying the people should be rounded up in camps or something. But he does and says bigoted and racist things, and I don't think he even realizes how bigoted and racist he really is. Put another way, I'm almost less afraid of David Duke than I am of Donald Trump. Because David Duke is a racist and bigot and hatemonger and he knows it. He wears it like a badge. He makes no excuses for his horrible mindsets and does not deny them because he thinks he's in the right to believe these things. Trump, however, doesn't even know what he does, doesn't realize how unacceptable his statements and actions are, doesn't get that he espouses the mindsets that people like David Duke celebrate. And being an oblivious racist is scarier, almost, than being an overt and open racist, to me, because you have no incentive to recognize that what you are saying and doing is wrong, or to realize that it's something that should change, if you don't even recognize that you're doing anything at all in the first place.

And with that in mind, I have no expectation of Donald Trump coming out and making a real statement denouncing all the racist and bullying actions occurring around the country in the name of what he himself has said or implied. That would require him to recognize and acknowledge the fact that these things are in fact occurring in his name, and whether or not he meant to suggest such mindsets or believes them himself, it's the attitude he put out there and he must take responsibility for that. But he won't.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[ClareWalks]

I am gobsmacked by the Trump supporters' assertions that Hillary voters need to understand them, need to stop protesting, need to come together and reach out. Say you're at a sports bar watching a Packers/Bears game. You are a Bears fan. The Bears are down by 40 points in the 4th quarter. That's like saying the Bears fans need to send a pitcher of beer to a Packers table. NO. The Packers fans need to be kind and send the beer over, dammit. Don't expect to kick us while we're down and have us shine your shoes while we're down here. REACH OUT YOURSELVES. Be good sports. 

[Padma]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Agreed. My reasoning for "Trump not helping the little guy" is that he refused to pay his contractors for work they did. Nothing to do with him being rich and white.

Also the whole "bring back jobs" b.s. about threatening Apple, Carrier and Ford.

One of my biggest angers about the media (and, I admit, his opponents, inc. HRC) is how they did not hammer away at him for continuing to make his OWN products abroad--in 22 countries!!! "Bring back jobs"? Heck--why not start by bringing back your OWN????

So many missed opportunities to expose this liar and hypocrite that it's heartbreaking. (However, for the actual loss itself, I still blame Comey)

[galax-arena]

I've never heard anyone describe him as a sociopath without a shred of empathy

Except where gay people are concerned. 

[AliShibaz]

3 hours ago, Dianthus said:

How is it I only just found this forum? I'm so glad it's here. We're really gonna need each other to get through this.

I have had much difficulty in finding my way around this site to the various forums that I wanted to visit.

I must say that I respect and admire this site tremendously. It is a most excellent site and the moderators here are just the very best I have ever encountered. They do their jobs with a very "light touch". By that, I mean they do not get involved unless or until it becomes necessary. For the most part, they seem to sit back and just stay out of trouble. I don't know how other people react to this. But my reaction is to try and behave myself so that their intervention is hardly ever needed - hardly ever at all. Beyond that, I truly respect and very much admire the way the admins and mods do their jobs here. I have to say this is the very best TV forum I have ever encountered and I have participated in about 6 other boards. I am really and truly floored at just how good this forum is. It's freaking great and I want to say a very big thank you to all the mods. They are truly magnificent here! Honest and for sure!

Most of the problems that I have had here are not about issues that usually require moderator intervention. In my experience, there is really not much need for any moderator intervention here. There is hardly any name calling or cursing or swearing at various posters who seem to get out of line and need a good smack down from time to time! Thank goodness for that! In general, people here seem to know and understand when they need to just "shut up" and they seem to know how to behave on a public forum. The calibure (sp?) of user participation is truly quite excellent here and moderator intervention is hardly ever required.

At least ... all of that is my opinion and you all know what they say about opinions!

To continue, I have met several people who have had some fairly heated opinions and who have told me to "F Off" within the context of user discussions and/or debate. For the most part, the mods have tended to leave that alone. They have only gotten involved when the discussion broke through the barriers of civilized discussion and broken into some nasty, ugly or childish cursing and swearing. And ... IMHO, that has always been fair enough. Again, it's been my opinion, but I belived the moderators here have always acted in a very professional, considerate and courteous manner. I like the mods here very very much. They all have my respect and admiration - more so than on any other user forum in which I have ever participated.

I have many stories that I'd like to tell you about how people seem to have broken some of the unwritten rules that generally would fall into the categories of "unwritten laws". I've been very surprised and happy at the way in which "our" moderators have gotten involved in maintaining order and discipline on these discussion boards. I don't think that I really have any further need to discuss the moderation of these forums. I would just like to say how much I appreciate the techniques used by the moderators of these forums. Really and truly - most excellent!

 

Yes and Yes!

Edited November 12, 2016 by AliShibaz

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, galax-arena said:

Except where gay people are concerned. 

and the reproductive rights of women.

[sistermagpie]

55 minutes ago, galax-arena said:

Except where gay people are concerned. 

And women he wants to force to hold shame funerals for pregnancies that don't come to term. Trump's a sociopath but seems to reserve his sadism for people who personally insult him.

Edited November 12, 2016 by sistermagpie

[crayon78]

5 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Trump, to me, is the not really the "obvious" sort of bigot and racist. It's not like he's going around spouting the n-word or saying the people should be rounded up in camps or something. But he does and says bigoted and racist things, and I don't think he even realizes how bigoted and racist he really is.

I agree with most of this (and that's actually true of most people on various different biases because of unconscious/implicit bias, but that's off-topic), but on the camps part, all I could think was, "He hasn't ... yet." I think it was last year, before he even won the primary, that he was doing some interview with one of the cable news shows, and they asked him whether he would have issued the same executive order regarding Japanese internment. His answer was something like, "Well, I'd have to be there to know if I would." 

No, no, you don't.

If you are the president for all Americans, you do not imprison and seize all the property of American citizens who have done nothing wrong, who you have no reasonable belief are in collusion with anyone, solely on the basis of their ethnicity/race. It was one of the most shameful parts of American history. I think at some point he backpedaled on the comment a bit, but never completely disavowed the idea of internment camps.

I'm not saying he has explicitly proposed to do those things now (as far as I know he hasn't), but the fact that this came up at all, and the current culture of hate, and the proposed Muslim database, etc... Let's just say it's on my radar and something I will be vigilantly watching. I hope that chapter of history never repeats itself. It'll probably depend who is really pulling the strings and what Trump actually cares about.

But yeah, I'm with Revlonred. I think what he really wanted was to lose, start his media empire, have a built-in viewership base that adored him, hold rallies, and continue playing the underdog. He could say whatever he wanted with no accountability (although he does that now; let's be honest, the media barely holds him accountable for anything), and live however he wanted to. They even did a trial run of Trump TV for that one day. He thrives on those rallies, which is why he wants to keep holding them. I think he loved running for president, and if that were a job, he'd do that forever.

[SmithW6079]

5 hours ago, clb1016 said:

Some people on this board have mocked those of us who have been going through a rough time since the election.  I wonder if they will show the same lack of compassion for Trump supporters when they exhibit signs of depression and despondency after being betrayed by the fraud on whom they've placed their hopes. No thousands of manufacturing jobs; no thousands of coal mining jobs; no wall; no mass deportations of over 10,000,000 people; tax cuts that benefit only people in Trump's socioeconomic class.  And God helps us if we end up in more military conflicts because of his lack of self-control, because it's always the children of the poor and working class who end up fighting our battles (don't expect to see Eric and Don Jr. in uniform).

I will certainly show a lack of compassion for those disappointed Trump voters. In fact, I'll laugh in their faces. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. Karma's a bitch. They willingly followed a con man. 

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Those people had numerous opportunities to realize they were being fooled, and they still voted for the con man.

4 hours ago, YesWeCantNotKnope said:

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/797196888751702016

Pam Bondi is now on Trump's transition team.

You know, the Attorney General of Florida that was in the process of deciding whether to go after Trump University for fraud, but decided against it after she just so happened to get a $25,000 donation? That Pam Bondi?

I feel like we're in the fucking Twilight Zone. How was this not a huge! media! scandal!1 BEFORE he was elected, let alone NOW?

I am just so damn frustrated because CNN etc need to fucking do their jobs and report on this stuff. Constantly. But nope, they're rather go after Hillary's emails for the 34093194020th time.

I think this will be one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of the US.

4 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't worry that much about the Pence scenario because it's pretty remote, plus he seems like a reasonable sort, not one who would want to destroy people's freedoms.  I didn't say I wouldn't worry, I'm just not panicking.  I don't get the panicking at scenarios that are 2nd and 3rd degree "what ifs".  As for the Republican majorities, I seriously doubt they're going to push through a lot of stuff that's THAT unpopular.  If the demonstrations now do nothing but make it obvious to them that they'd have most of the American public to deal with if they do, that might help to contain them at least somewhat.  I just doubt they are going to push through a lot of stuff that's going to cause a major backlash.  But even if they do, this is the American system.  If we didn't allow the opposing view to win once in a while we wouldn't be a democracy.  As much as we might not like having to live with that in some cases, it's the American way to make that possible and I've been living with that for almost 60 years now so I guess I am used to rolling with the punches.  The good thing is that in 4 years we'll have another election and can get rid of him if he's that bad.  So again, there's another reason not to panic.  Plus I still don't think Trump is for some of the things that he has been assumed to be for so that also may help even if some of his cabinet is for those things.

If you don't think Pence is deadly to the rights of those not Christian, you haven't read his record as governor.

Pence said: "I'm a Christian, a conservative and a Republican in that order." He doesn't even say he's an American. Republicans have been trying to destroy the federal government for years. Now they have free reign.

[windsprints]

Quote

Trump, to me, is the not really the "obvious" sort of bigot and racist. It's not like he's going around spouting the n-word or saying the people should be rounded up in camps or something

Correct, he did not say the n-word. He did however call immigrants rapists. He didn't say he wanted to round up people in camps instead he said he wanted to throw them out of the country. He's an obvious bigot and racist IMO.

[Padma]

Personally, I can't wait for their disillusionment. They were so stupid and so arrogant (yes, that's an arrogant comment, but I've earned the right to it after 16 months! The Trump supporters ignored all HIS corruption and all HIS lies and said the most awful things about Hillary and the Clintons. SHE actually would have cared about them, something their beloved leader doesn't.  (On a popular webste they call him their "God Emperor" now). They can't be disillusioned quickly enough for me--although I'm skeptical that they will ever blame Trump for anything..

Personally, I was kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while about "Mexicans are rapists" because he made it clear he meant "undocumented" Mexicans (which isn't true either, but is still different).

But when he kept calling Judge Curiel "a Mexican" (even after being corrected several times) and going on about how it meant he couldn't judge Trump's case I knew it was all true and he is most definitely a racist.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Padma

[BookWoman56]

Quote

 AliShibaz said:

Most of my opinions concerning Hilary were formed when I read several articles supposedly written by Secret Service agents who told stories about how she treated them in a terribly cruel and demeaning way.

I have to admit that I started to believe these stories—without much proof—basically because several agents seemed to be saying the same things and those stories were never denied by Hilary's camp.

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

 

I had mentioned this in another thread, possibly even upthread in this one, but here goes: Many years ago, I had to interact for a couple of days with the SS agents who were at that time assigned to Barbara Bush. They had been Nancy Reagan's agents as well. They openly referred to Nancy Reagan as a bitch on wheels, and used the nickname "First Bitch" several times when talking about her. Understand, their criteria for "bitch" was that she dared to speak her mind to Ronnie about political issues, such as pointing out to him that a particular advisor's opinion made no sense, and that she didn't automatically just do what the SS agents suggested and instead asked them to explain why they were recommending route A and precaution B. Neither agent bothered to conceal their attitude that women didn't belong in politics other than to stand there as a trophy wife. Now, I loathed the Reagans and still do, but as much as I disagreed with Nancy, she was entitled (and in some sense obligated) to express her opinions to Ronnie, and she certainly had a right to question arrangements regarding her personal safety as well as his, especially after the Hinckley incident. The agents definitely gave the impression that most of the SS agents had similar attitudes about women in general, and it would not surprise me to learn that the SS is still filled with that kind of idiocy. So, if Hillary's SS agents claimed she was a bitch to them, that probably translates more into her not jumping when they said to jump and instead asking them to explain their recommendations when planning trips, etc. Obviously, I wasn't there for those interactions with Hillary, but based on the words and mindset I saw of the two SS agents, I'd be very skeptical of any SS agent's statements about her or any other woman, for that matter.

[ari333]

21 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

13 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

But what life altering events have happened as of yet? People are getting on their knees already.. Am I honestly out of my mind? I guess I am. People are ALREADY on their knees crying. Get your ass up and be a human being. Quit playing the victim.. 

Good! So leave the house, quit playing the victim.  People are giving them exactly what they expected. And they are laughing.. 

No one that I know is "playing the victim. " They've been actual victims.

[Lantern7]

There doesn't seem to be much escape. I watch Pokémon XYZ, which I should have outgrown years ago. Right now, they have Team Flare wrecking a city, promising a new order for a "chosen few." And then we get an image of Ash, Pikachu, and their friends floating in restraints, most of them with the arms out and legs straight. And while You-Know-Who can't grow a beard like Lysander, the parallels are still eerie.

Man, is what happened supposed to be payback for all the shit Ann Coulter endured during the roast of Rob Lowe? It galls me that people like her consider themselves winners, when there would be a precious few that can claim victory.

ETA: Also eerie? Watching Arrow, seeing Prometheus leave a message in flames, "SO IT BEGINS." And this was the day after Election Day. Also, I'm now okay with somebody who was presumed dead for five years running a city, even though he was accused of being a vigilante on two separate occasions. And Cobblepot/Nygma 2020? Fuckin' bring it on.

[Chicken Wing]

29 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Correct, he did not say the n-word. He did however call immigrants rapists. He didn't say he wanted to round up people in camps instead he said he wanted to throw them out of the country. He's an obvious bigot and racist IMO.

That's exactly it. He doesn't say the n-word -- but he categorizes people of a certain nationality as criminal. It's racist, but it doesn't register to people as racist because he didn't use racist "terms" and also because he buried it in a larger sales pitch. He doesn't say he wants to round people up in camps -- but he does declare that millions should be thrown out of the country, along with stating his intention to ban the followers of an entire religion from entering. But that doesn't register to people as bigoted or racist because he didn't lay out a literal plan of something that is categorically understood to be hatemongering, like everyone knows the Holocaust was. But it is still the same mindset that led to that very thing. People just don't believe it -- since he didn't say the literal words, they choose not to hear it that way.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[sistermagpie]

Don’t underestimate the ability for people to brush off overtly racist language either, though. Many people will say that if somebody uses a slur just because they’re angry or whatever, that doesn’t mean they’re “really” racist. They were just angry in that moment or it was a slip of the tongue or whatever.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

I am going to reveal a bit more about myself on this forum than I usually do.  I have a problem processing the emotions fear and sorrow.  They translate in my head as anger, and yes I was in therapy for it.   My therapist had to work for many sessions to get me to feel sorrow for the loss of my dog who I loved almost as much as my daughter.  I walked around for weeks in a ball of barely suppressed rage - always feeling like I was two seconds from punching someone in the throat. She was finally able to get me to squeeze out a few tears and the anger subsided for awhile.

At any rate she was able to get me in Thursday afternoon.  I walked into her office, sat down and collapsed into a ball of tears.  She was more flabbergasted than I have ever seen anyone.  She thought someone literally died.  I yelled at her "I don't do sad!!!"   She told me that's not sad - that's terrified. It appears it's normal for human beings who live here on the planet earth to be scared when they feel threatened.  Imagine that. 

If someone wants to come call me a whiner or a pussy or say I'm playing the victim, go for it.   If you want to be a real big boss - come say it in person.  Because I've normalized to pissed as hell and I have massive anger management issues.  

[glowlights]

Anyone looking for shelter in the social media storm might enjoy Birds Rights Activist (which makes me laugh like nothing else). @ProBirdRights

Anyone else have favorite places to go for a much-needed laugh right now? Besides the liquor cabinet...

[crayon78]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Don’t underestimate the ability for people to brush off overtly racist language either, though. Many people will say that if somebody uses a slur just because they’re angry or whatever, that doesn’t mean they’re “really” racist. They were just angry in that moment or it was a slip of the tongue or whatever.

That and...

"You're just being too sensitive about it."

"You're reading too much into it. Not everything is racist. You guys just make everything racist."

"All these restrictions on free speech. So damn PC."

"It's just words/a joke. They didn't mean it like that."

Not all racial or ethnic slurs per se, but pretty sure most people knew what was being said. Not even going to get into the normalization of sexist comments. Those were often brushed off even more easily and vigorously.

[DollEyes]

 It's just been a few days since the election and I'm already tired of those in the media who are coddling those Blue-Collar White Trump supporters asking those of use who voted for the actual winner to "understand" their pain. I stopped caring about their so-called "pain" four days ago. They knew damn well about all the hate that Trump has spewed out of his mouth about minorities, but they voted for him anyway, enabling him and emboldening the worst of his supporters, however inadvertently, to run amok-which as far as I'm concerned, makes them just as bad as he is. To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, Episode IV, "Who's the bigger fool-the fool or the fool who follows?"

  There are stories of Muslims being verbally and physically attacked and Black students on predominantly White college campuses being harassed since the election.  Trump's rhetoric is so toxic that even kids are infected by it, such as the incident in the MI middle school with the White students chanting "Build a wall!" to the Latino kids in the cafeteria, which is both heartbreaking and infuriating. Trump's silence about these incidents has been deafening. Instead of bitching about the anti-Trump protesters for exercising their Constitutional rights, Trump's first post-election tweets should have been about condemning such bigotry-which, since he's responsible for provoking it in the first place, is the least he could have done.  Those protesters give me hope. Not the idiots who are destroying property, I'm talking about the vast majority who are standing up for their rights and the rights of others in a positive and nonviolent way, which is inspiring, to say the least. While I'm not physically with them, I'm there in spirit. 

I'm concluding with one of my favorite clips from the movie Protocol, about a cocktail waitress played by Goldie Hawn, who gets a DC job after saving an Arab Dignitary's life:

"Like A Hawk"

Edited November 13, 2016 by DollEyes

[zxy556575]

15 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I think it's going to take a long while for the majority to realise they've been had. Because they're already rationalising his change of heart over the ACA and Clinton, and trying to pretend that they wanted him to moderate after winning (also, that they knew he was going to). It's amazing, the loyalty he's inspired in some of these people. But a year from now, when jobs aren't coming back and the economy isn't growing and that wall still isn't being talked about? That's when they'll get disgruntled. There's nothing quite so ugly as zealous followers turning on their leader.

I don't believe Trump voters will ever be disappointed in him, or turn. They've already shown a truly unbelievable acceptance of doublespeak, lies, illegal business practices, vindictive behavior, nonexistent morals and zero ethical standards. It's that level of willful ignorance that has rocked me back on my feet.

I haven't seen a single post from anyone who has broken through to a Trump supporter -- family members, friends, FB acquaintances -- and gotten them to admit that Crooked Donald has any faults or misguided policies. His supporters don't even admit he lies when faced with numerous lies EVERY SINGLE DAY for 18 months of the campaign.

Edited to add: I do realize that Trump supporters feel the same way about me -- that I'm unable to see the truth and accept that HRC has ties to Russia, started ISIS, is cruel to her Secret Service staff, cheated on Bill, is going to take everyone's guns away, etc. Therein lies the impasse.

Edited November 13, 2016 by lordonia

[windsprints]

Quote

I stopped caring about their so-called "pain" four days ago

You're kinder than I am, I never cared about their pain because they've never given a rat's ass about anyone else's.  Prior to the actual election they've done nothing but slam President Obama for years and excuse everything awful statement made by Trump.  The Trump people are behaving just like him. Its becoming more and more obvious why they voted as they did. 

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, lordonia said:

I don't believe Trump voters will ever be disappointed in him, or turn. They've already shown a truly unbelievable acceptance of doublespeak, lies, vindictive behavior, nonexistent morals and zero ethical standards. It's that level of willful ignorance that has rocked me back on my feet.

I was happy to see at least a few FB comments saying he's just a politician after all. Though one person defended him, saying that he was only going to keep parts Obamacare that shows “he cares.” Nice to see her admit that Obamacare is about caring about other people.

[potatoradio]

Yeah, no, I'm not buying this "pain." It's vengeance, plain and simple, and that's partly why people are so f*cking freaked out and mad. I don't like to use the term "they" because it's vague, but in my opinion, based on conversations I've seen on message boards, Trump supporters not only want their white privilege back, they want to punish, mock and endlessly torture those they think stole it from them (minorities, Democrats, liberals, gays, celebrities). They say that because they don't use the N-word or don't wear KKK robes and don't want to ever, ever be aware of how much privilege they have - well, they're not racist and you can't call them that because unfair and (snort) racist.

And those who turn a blind eye or voted for Trump because of economics or something? Will always rationalize away that THEY never had anything to do with the deportations or the actual destruction of democracy. Geez, Louise, calm down - they're just tired of PC and librulls giving away their hard earned money to those dark people. That's all. 

I mean, my brother is likely a Trump supporter and he's in an interracial marriage and he's a scientist. If he can blind himself to reality, anyone can.

I just don't know how to share a planet with these people sometimes. 

But who knows, maybe we're due for a civil war and maybe getting all this racist BS out in the open will expose it so it can wither and die in the light. I mean, hey, sorry about all the lives lost, but you know, nobody should ever have to confront their white privilege as being a responsible member of a democracy without a fight. 

[film noire]

5 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

You know, congress, that thing he'll need to get any kind of legislation passed.

Leglislation, yes; horrific change, no. Without Congress, his presidential powers give him the ability to change deportation policy with a single order, and many of the protections now enjoyed by the LGBT community can also be signed away. (I'd repost links but I'm pressed for time -- they're all through this forum, info about how the presidency works +Trump's stated plans to sign away LGBT rights and how easily a President can deport "illegals" etc.)

Edited November 12, 2016 by film noire

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, glowlights said:

Anyone else have favorite places to go for a much-needed laugh right now? Besides the liquor cabinet...

Two Words: Tracey Ullman.  Her new show on HBO has given me the laugh(s) I've needed since Early early Wednesday morning. I'm sure you can find them online as well.

I've been sick, literally sick since Tuesday morning, and the fact that I'm still sick, I'm blaming on this Election. Is that logical? No. But I'm blaming it anywayz. I've only managed to subsist on tea, TheraFlu, NyQuil, bland toast for the past four days, and now I'm down to liquids, because I'm too weak, physically to leave my home to go out and buy food. And no, I can't order groceries delivered because there's a fucking minimum, plus, no money. 

Add me to the list of those who won't have any compassion for those who voted for Drumpf.  No two ways about it for me: you vote for someone who spouts racism, hatred, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia, bigotry...for whatever reason? To me, you condone those things, which is equally, if not worse.  Hasan Minhaj said it perfectly this week on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, which @Bastet posted upthread.

So, I'm going to go watch some more of Tracey Ullman.

Edited November 13, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule
Because spelling people's name correctly is important!

[backformore]

Quote

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?

Yeah - there are some really shitty examples of him helping people.  there was one I linked before about him showing up as a donor to a charity event - but never gave a donation.

I remember reading a story about Trump being principal for the day at different schools in New York.  At one, there was a photo-op fake check for a million bucks - but it wasn't real - it was a gesture.  his actual contribution was $200.   There was another story about him donating coupons to poor Black kids for Nike shoes.  And he was shocked when a kid told him that what he really needed was money for college.

Wait - I found it:   Trump kicks in chump change

Quote

The climax of his visit to Public School 70 was a stop at the bake sale for the school's championship chess team, which was a few thousand dollars short for a trip to the national finals in Knoxville, Tenn. But thanks to Trump, 30 kids on the school chess team will leave tomorrow morning for Tennessee on a charte red bus. Trump dropped a $1 million bill into the bake sale treasury. A fake $1 million dollar bill. It is the kind of gesture that only a world-class blockhead would make.

Quote

He raffled off 15 coupons for sneakers, redeemable at the Nike store in Trump Tower, a building that he said was in "the inner city called 57th and Fifth.

" "He said we were going to have to go on a bus to get them," recalled student Eugenio Tavares Jr......................

But they didn't like that he left before noon, when he was supposed to be here all day. One kid did ask him a very good question.

" "Why did you offer us sneakers if you could give us scholarships?

" asked Andres Rodriquez, a fifth-grader. With all his empty-headed foolishness summed up in one sentence from an 11-year-old, Trump did not let down his admirers. Who told Andres to ask the question, Trump demanded to know. No one, said Andres. "I asked because school is more important than sneakers," said Andres a few days later. "But he didn't really answer.

Edited November 12, 2016 by backformore

[NinjaPenguins]

If Orange voters want me to understand economic anxiety and getting the shaft financially, believe you me, I can do that. If they're asking me to meet them halfway and blame minorities for the situation, I can find more productive uses for my time. 

Some Orange voters I've spoken to remind me of the bullies I spent twelve long school years with. They did not like the smart kids, even the smart kid who kept their head down and their mouth zipped. They always wanted to cheat off your test, but then reverted right back to the verbal abuse. Looking back, some of the anger those classmates felt toward the "nerds" is quite striking. It feels like revenge of the bullies out there.

[Lisin]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and everyone must respect everyone else's opinions and not call anyone out.

In general, please stop trying to "win" an argument here, no one is right or wrong. nobody has to prove WHY they think/feel the way they do.

This is not a courtroom no one needs 'proof' to feel how they feel.

Remember you are welcome to ignore posters you find annoying!

If you think something doesn't belong in this thread please report it! Don't engage!

Report things you find disrespectful or off topic. Don't just quote it and point it out in thread.

We've been giving warnings/Non Warning Notices up until this point, but from here on out second chances will be harder to come by.

We are locking down the forum for an hour to give everyone a chance to see this. The threads will unlock at 4:30pm Eastern Time. 

[ratgirlagogo]

19 hours ago, magdalene said:

 Heck, even Nixon was a much better man than Trump.

Let's not go crazy here.  Nixon (along with his buddy the future Nobel Peace Prize{!??!!!} winner Henry Kissinger) deliberately prevented the Vietnam War from ending in 1968.  The North Vietnamese knew their people were exhausted and they were ready to surrender - but Kissinger/Nixon walked out on the Peace Talks because Nixon needed the war to continue through the 1968 election - which of course it did,  until 1975.   This resulted in the deaths of at least 20,000  American servicepeople and I don't feel like looking up right now how many Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians.  

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/

Edited November 12, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[windsprints]

I saw this on twitter and bringing it here since people have discussed making donations, etc.  An idea to make a donation and send a message at the same time. 

[CherryMalotte]

Quote

I've been in that dynamic. I wish you better luck than I had back then.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry - I didn't want anybody to think it was going to get violent.  Mr Malotte is very much a pussy cat, and not a pussy grabber.  But...he has always been into the conspiracy theory crap so the daughter and I get all over him, and this type of discussion or conversation or scream fest can get pretty heated.  

Been rather reflective the past day or so, and I keep thinking of the Frederick Douglass quote "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground."  It seems very appropriate for the times.  And, one way or another after I clear out some of my personal bullshit I have going on I'm going to volunteer my time doing something, anything, that will help.      

Edited November 12, 2016 by CherryMalotte

[Padma]

How many overnights did the Obamas have at their house in Chicago? I don't remember any. Can you imagine if they had gone "home" every weekend? roflmao.   It actually gives me little glimmers of happiness when I think of how Trump didn't realize he'll be STUCK in the WH pretty much 24/7. hahaha. Seriously, how could the SS possibly secure Trump Tower?

A 58 story glass skyscraper in the heart of Manhattan?  The WH has a no fly zone for some radius around it. Does that make sense in NYC?  Does it seem remotely possible to secure a publicly accessed buiding on 5th Aveenue, with a lobby required to be accessed by the public by contract with the city--then 25 floors of a variety of stores  restaurants and offices?   Then there are all those people living in the 27 floors beneath Trump's triplex--how do you secure any of that? His tenants aren't paying big bucks for their apartments or business space to be massively inconvenienced all the time. SS said you can't even land a helicopter on the building.

I can't wait until the SS tells him he won't be living in Trump Tower until he leaves the WH. lol(

.....(8) safety pin emoji?

Edited November 12, 2016 by Padma

[fastiller]

@Padma - I have read over the past days or so the the Secret Service has already pretty much put the kibosh on frequent trips back to NYC. For many of the reasons you outlined.

[formerlyfreedom]

This is not the spot to discuss the President-elect's policies, living arrangements, Cabinet, etc. (all better suited for Donald John Trump topic). Posts that are off topic will be removed, and could face additional sanctions, including warnings and more. Please take the conversation to the appropriate topic.

[windsprints]

Has anyone seen their state/local governments speaking about the post-election events (not sure how to word it)? I posted an article from the NY governor in the media thread. He's also opening an investigation into hate crimes - https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-orders-investigation-between-state-police-suny-police-and-state-division-human

I was just wondering if others are doing the same.  I'm hoping so.  Something needs to be done to protect people and make them feel safer (IMO).

[Bastet]

Quote

Has anyone seen their state/local governments speaking about the post-election events (not sure how to word it)? ... I was just wondering if others are doing the same.  I'm hoping so.  Something needs to be done to protect people and make them feel safer (IMO).

Yes, in CA the legislative leaders issued a joint statement saying, in part, "We woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California."  It ended with, "America is greater than any one man or party.  We will not be dragged back into the past. We will lead the resistance to any effort that would shred our social fabric or our Constitution."

So that was both soothing and inspiring.  And in Los Angeles, where I live, the Times published a map showing how all the neighborhoods in the greater L.A. area voted, and the sea of blue was comforting. 

I take my anxiety relief wherever I can get it in these early days.  Today's dreary weather seems to be having quite an effect on my mood, and I've been really down since the moment I woke up.  I'm headed to my game room to try and lose myself in football (and vodka) ...

[editorgrrl]

5 hours ago, glowlights said:

Anyone looking for shelter in the social media storm might enjoy Birds Rights Activist (which makes me laugh like nothing else). https://twitter.com/probirdrights/

Anyone else have favorite places to go for a much-needed laugh right now? Besides the liquor cabinet...

If you're 40+ (or love '80s music), I give you "The Politics of Dancing" by Re-Flex:

Quote

We got the message 
I heard it on the airwaves 
The politicians 
Are now DJ's 

The broadcast was spreading 
Station to station 
Like an infection 
Across the nation 

Well you know you can't stop it 
When they start to play 
You gotta get out the way 

The politics of dancing 
The politics of ooh feeling good 
The politics of moving 
Is this message understood? 

[KIMBERLYANN11]

A few things that actually made me smile today: 

A called Thanksgiving truce at my mom's.  Her boyfriend is a Trumper and a jerk, although to his credit, I don't think he wants to be a jerk.   His heart is almost in the right place and the only thing he cares about is making my mom happy.  I don't like him much, but if it wasn't for him my mom would have a hard time living in her house by herself.  He enthusiastically agreed to a non-political holiday which wouldn't be the norm. I said I 100% agree to not bring up anything political.  But if somebody else brings it up I might be known in family lore as the one who ruined Thanksgiving.  (I think I'm already the one who ruined Christmas).  I am afraid that rules out euchre : 

Him:  Spades are trump

Me:  (flips table)

 

I enjoy thinking about Obamas first meeting with the orange turd behind closed doors:  

Obama:  Hey motherfucker, you know I was born in Hawaii, right?

Trump  .....................

 

Cow-orker voted for Trump because he believes every tin foil hat conspiracy theory that comes down the pike.  He literally thinks Secretary Clinton sold classified secrets to the russians. I think deep down, where he doesn't even know it is, is that her ownership of a vagina hurt his testosterone level.  His two big things that he harped on wednesday were the fact that Trump's gonna throw her in prison and we're getting rid of Obamacare.  Now that the first two things Trump said after meeting with Obama are that he's not going to arrest Hillary and that he's going to keep aspects of Obamacare (the mandate is what pisses off my cow-orker  - Trump wants to keep the pre-ex provision, which means the mandate has to stay).  I totally plan on checking with him every few weeks for the next four years (or until I am gone) and letting him know I don't watch the news and ask if Hillary's in prison yet and if we can expect much plan building work with the elimination of Obamacare (we work in the health insurance industry).

[Quilt Fairy]

8 hours ago, glowlights said:

BTW on Amazon you can buy large safety pins in sets of four. As opposed to those packs of 100. Unless you want to give them out to others, in which case 100 pins for eight bucks sounds like a deal! lol

Just find someone who's a quilter.  We usually have lots!

[maraleia]

19 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

What I don't understand is why people didn't fear the cabinets under Bush or Reagan.  Why all of a sudden the panic?  We've had right wingers and Republicans around forever and some of them were even more right wing than these are now.  I remember worrying about certain Supreme Court appointments and cabinet members in the past but nothing near the outright panic we are seeing now.  I'm just not getting why this is such a big fear now.  Pence is the VP and since when is there any reason to worry about them unless the President dies?  I hear you about Drumpf's thin skin (due to the narcissism) but at least for now he is on his best behavior.  I think he knows he will have a lot of opposition if he doesn't attempt to represent ALL people to some extent, hence his rather sober expressions which translate to me as "Oh shit, this is REAL now", so I am hoping that some of that will help him to grow up a little.  I am being optimistic of course!

They were partially reasonable men who held public office before and knew the limitations. Also, Trump's choices are the who's who of haters and anti-science people in the country.

Edited November 13, 2016 by maraleia
How do I move this to the DJT thread? I've forgotten. Please help.

[ratgirlagogo]

15 minutes ago, maraleia said:

They were partially reasonable men who held public office before and knew the limitations. 

NO NO NO.

They were jerks like Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.  Anita Hill is one of my all time heroes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Hill

[Spartan Girl]

Anyone else dealing by watching all the Christmas movies that are on Hallmark? Usually it still feels too early for Christmas stuff around this time of the month, but now I'll happily make an exception. We need call the Yuletide spirit we can get.

[fastiller]

@Spartan Girl - not Hallmark. I am immersing myself in classic film on TCM and on my local PBS stations.