Post-Election Fears & Anxieties

[Willowy]

25 minutes ago, auntl said:

People on this board need to understand that the people from PA, OH, WS, MI voted for Obama in the last election. The people who voted for Trump are not bigots. Just because people have a different opinion than you, they are not bad, they are not dumb, they are not racists. They just have a different opinion and perceive things differently than you. They don't agree with you that Trump is a bigot. They also don't see Hillary as a saint. People on this board must understand that half of the country doesn't agree with their perception of things. I wish that they would keep that in mind when they make their posts.

No, we don't. We're bruised, we're raw, and we're allowed to express that. If you voted for trump, good for you, your guy won, didn't he? You can afford to be a bit generous I think, with those of us that are screaming in realistic agony because of what's about to happen to our country. Please don't try to shut us up. At all.

[AltLivia]

As a disabled woman living in a rural area, I'm afraid.  As a member of the LGBTQ community, I'm afraid. As a woman, I am afraid. People think that it's only folks  like the elderly  who need to fear losing the benefits Trump and Ryan threaten to slash - but it's not. People don't acknowledge the disabled as a minority, but we are.

I live with the fact that Trump made fun of that reporter, and that people elected him despite it. That man had cerebral palsy, So do I. People condone that/ ignore it.

As far as Mike Pence, I recently read a quote from Trump's right hand man that read: "I'm a Christian first, and a conservative, and a Republican. In that order." As an agnostic, this gives me the serious frights, especially in terms of a woman's reproductive rights. To say nothing of gay conversion therapy.

My friends are posting on social media, touting : "We all need to get behind him, we're all in this together." But how are we all in this together if Trump only prioritizes himself and the Republican agenda? My only relief is that his ego is intensely, laughably and pathetically fragile. His denial of protest has all the pouting spirit of aplayground brat. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by AltLivia
Removed a random "at".

[lyric]

[hoosier80]

1 hour ago, auntl said:

This campaign was very ugly. People said a lot of mean and hurtful things on both sides.

The Trump insults were way over the line.  He insulted the GOP candidates horribly in the primaries.  Little Mario - demeaning a grown man.  Then the attacks on Cruz - his wife and his father.  Accusing Cruz's father of being involved in the Kennedy assassination.  The nasty woman comment during the debates.  The Mexicans are just a bunch of criminals and rapists - they're not sending their best.  That's just a few.

The Dems mainly stuck to how unqualified he was, and truthfully how deplorable his supporters were.  Yes, deplorable.  They would not listen to any facts.  None.  Didn't matter.  That is deplorable.  That they believe and still believe everything will be better overnight is incredulous.  I voted twice for Obama, and I knew he couldn't just make it so.  It would take a lot of work to get it done, and not everything would be accomplished during his terms of office.  Lots of important change takes decades.  The jobs lost weren't lost just overnight, so they won't be brought back overnight.  But, no, he alone can solve it.  Give me a break.

And as for the all the people who voted for Trump are not bigots?  Maybe not.  But they've stood behind a man who is.   

I'm not just a sore loser.  Were the people on the right just sore losers for 8 freaking years when they opposed everything Obama tried?  Now I am supposed to support this vile person immediately?  I am a lover of American History; this is one of the most disastrous votes to come along in ages.  I think it will sorely weaken our democracy.  Clearly, he thinks he can do whatever, say whatever, and that's ok.  It's not ok.  And I'm not talking about being overly PC.  I'm talking about being a decent human being.  Hilarious because a lot on the right are supposed Christians; the majority surely do not act as a Christian.  None of the racist, homophobic, xenophobic, or anti women slurs are truly Christian behaviors.

Then one of his surrogates is on tape, saying that we will all have to bow down to him?  Hell, no.  We broke away from England to get away from a monarch.  There was even much consideration on how the new leader of the US would be addressed.  George Washington turned down many suggestions as being too much like a king; he said, no the person would be the President.  And he could have stayed in office more than his two terms; the rest of the world was stunned at the time when he did step down after two terms.  It was unheard of but he knew it was necessary for our democracy to flourish.  That Trump did not denounce what Omarosa said is very telling.  He really does expect people to bow down to him.  Nope.  Sorry.  It goes against everything our founding fathers fought for - everything for which generations have fought and died.  It is a slap in the face to all those patriots and to every US Citizen.

Edited November 11, 2016 by hoosier80

[moonb]

2 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I don't even know what to say to people who listened to Trump and really believe things he said, like his promises to bring jobs back to America.  The guy who buys his steel from China is going to fight for your mill job in Ohio?  LOL, no.  You're all going to be unemployed, and you probably won't be able to find affordable health insurance once your COBRA coverage runs out.  He doesn't care about you, and he sure as hell doesn't care about those of us who didn't vote for him.  

I'm practicing for political discussions at Thanksgiving here, but....my brother is a socially liberal fiscal conservative and was pretty happy about Trump's winning the nomination (he also voted for Obama in 2012, since the GOP isn't great about the "socially liberal" bit).  He's  fine with LGBTQ rights, thinks that as a man who can't get pregnant he shouldn't have as much say in abortion rights as women...etc. etc. That said, he IS a "the system is rigged, the banks are rigged" guy, and likes Trump because of the "outsider" thing. Yup, he's a straight white man in his 50s who has always held blue collar jobs and identifies with that strongly, private school education, college degree and all.  I'm not sure he believes Trump as a candidate - my brother can be a blowhard and it takes one to know one - but he loves the shakeup idea and is worried about illegal immigration, refugees, and globalization's effect on good-paying middle class jobs.  So we usually talk about political stuff in terms of choice and consequences, like: 

- less open borders might mean lots of other changes, such as more expensive food, goods and services (my brother LOVES Walmart and hates paying high prices for much of anything).

-does job growth imply good paying jobs with benefits (often not in a service oriented, post industrial economy). I don't think either major party really knows how to address this in a meaningful way beyond infrastructure and clean energy investments. 

-fewer insured people means choosing more ER visits, more unplanned pregnancies, and lots of other things I'm not thinking of

This probably won't help my need for a huge glass of bourbon over the holidays, though.

[callmebetty]

40 minutes ago, auntl said:

People on this board need to understand that the people from PA, OH, WS, MI voted for Obama in the last election. The people who voted for Trump are not bigots. Just because people have a different opinion than you, they are not bad, they are not dumb, they are not racists. They just have a different opinion and perceive things differently than you. They don't agree with you that Trump is a bigot. They also don't see Hillary as a saint. People on this board must understand that half of the country doesn't agree with their perception of things. I wish that they would keep that in mind when they make their posts.

That's valid. but if they were truly informed heard everything he said and claimed ,it does come down to you know this man you have always known this man and he has presented himself as a bigot or worse a racist. And if you're okay with that it comes off as : Yeah I know he's that way, but as long as he doesn't come after me then I'm fine with it. So maybe you're not a racist or a bigot but you're not exactly exhibiting the best in human nature if you can't have any empathy or compassion for others outside your little circle.

I get it self preservation is a hell of a thing. And hope for those people who swept away those horrible things he said and the horrible people (KKK ) who supported him and just focused on the job portion or health portion. I hope it works out for you. 

[Lantern7]

While I'm thinking about it . . . I do not blame Mark Burnett for The Apprentice and You-Know-Who. That guy is a virus . . . if Burnett hadn't been an incubator, he would've found another way to get into the American consciousness. I hate Burnett for unleashing Jeff Probst upon us, for he is an alpha-male sniffer who constantly shakes things up to a conclusion he feels would be best for the show. Right now, there are twelve players left on the current season of Survivor, and only three of them are female. Only one man has been voted out. That's more of a coincidence than anything, but I'm still gagging on it. And if you take away the three beta males, Probst would wind up with problems putting on his shorts in the morning.

Thinking about The Apprentice . .. I gave up after three seasons, especially after Tana went batshit in the end of S3. I tried watching Martha Stewart's version; had that surpassed the original, YKW would've had the theme song changed to Marilyn Manson's cover of "Sweet Dreams" to counter Martha. Oh, and how can somebody fire people who he never hired in the first place? When you think about it, it makes no sense . ..  which is a recurring theme.

[abstractstuff]

How is Trump honestly worse by speaking his words.. Than the career politicans that have actively taken money and continue to do so from countries which laws still puts gays to death? 

[galax-arena]

I mean, maybe I'd think his words meant something if he hadn't picked Pence as his VP or surrounded himself with virulently anti-LGBTQ advisers. It's distasteful how his team uses LGBTQ victims of Islamic extremism as rhetorical pawns. Like I'm supposed to believe any of them actually give a shit! Trump says that he wants to protect gay people from Islam; meanwhile he's in bed with people who would be all too happy recriminalizing sodomy in the United States. 

[ruby24]

2 minutes ago, auntl said:

60 million people voted for Trump. People from all different walks of life. Different educational levels, races, genders, and religions. The bottom line is that half of the voters in this country don't agree with the posters on this board. 

I have tried to give another point of view. The heck with it, stay in your little bubble if you want.

These people were willing to destroy their country. That's the bottom line. Every poll showed us that they knew he was racist and unqualified and unfit for office. They KNEW that he would be a disaster in this position. They did it anyway. To make themselves feel good.

[ClareWalks]

12 minutes ago, auntl said:

60 million people voted for Trump. People from all different walks of life. Different educational levels, races, genders, and religions. The bottom line is that half of the voters in this country don't agree with the posters on this board.

We know they don't agree with us. We know they aren't necessarily bad people just because Trump is bad. We get it. Trump won. You won. This is the anxiety support thread, where we can lick our wounds and commiserate. That doesn't make us pussies or whiners. It makes us human, like the people you are defending. We just need some time and we need to work through this. It has been three short days and people are already telling us to get over it, while Republicans have been complaining for eight years about Obama.

Edited November 11, 2016 by ClareWalks

[NewDigs]

3 hours ago, Tara said:

Awww, c'mon now.  That's as racist as anything I've seen here.  Sure, there are plenty of older white people still stuck in that racist state of mind, just as many older brown people are. But most are thoughtful, caring people just like you, just trying to live and die as painlessly as possible. 

And anyway, those people you're talking about?  They don't care what color you are, they got theirs, go fuck yourself anyone who tries to take it.

Took reply to Picture thread.

Not fitting in anti-anxiety thread.

[galax-arena]

Quote

People from all different walks of life. Different educational levels, races, genders, and religions.

The vast majority of his support came from straight white people. 58% of white people voted for Trump. No majority of any other race voted for him. 88% of black people voted for Hillary. I mean, I guess you can say that his support came from everywhere because, hey, 12% of black people voted for Trump, but I'm not going to ignore that his only majority support was from white people, who are also more likely to be blind about the realities of racism in the US thanks to white privilege. So, okay, yeah, they don't think they're racist. But who does? 

And preemptively, no, pointing out the realities of privilege should not be taken as a dire insult. I may lack white privilege, but I certainly possess privilege in other areas. I'm secure enough in myself to not feel threatened by acknowledging that. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by galax-arena

[abstractstuff]

*THEY* Have not been crying on their hands and knees though. As twisted and fucked up as they are, they at least, have stuck together in their fuckupness. All I am seeing now is a bunch of crying and petitions to change the law and weakness and whining. It's embarrassing. And it's ecactly  what was expected. It's sad that a "safe space" is needed. Because people cannot handle shit anymore. 

[ClareWalks]

1 minute ago, abstractstuff said:

*THEY* Have not been crying on their hands and knees though.

Many people are facing the real possibility of being deported, being victims of hate crimes (it is already happening, all over the country), having their reproductive rights stripped away, having their same-sex marriage nullified, etc. I don't blame them for crying about it. Again, you won. Have some compassion, please.

[dcalley]

6 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Sigh~~ I feel all alone here in Indiana.

You're not. Have you heard of "Periods for Pence" (now "Periods for Politicians")? It started in Indiana. I am not associated in any way with Indiana, but I heard about Periods for Pence in the spring when it made NPR and the NY Times. Here's an article about the woman who started it, from Nov. 4.

5 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

A couple of days before the election, the house on the corner put up 5 Trump/Pence signs along the strip of land between the sidewalk and street.  I had fantasies of running them over every time I went by.  And yes, there were a ton of Yes on Prop 8 signs, too. 

Political sign placement is regulated in a lot of places, so they may been there illegally, as that land is usually not owned by the homeowner. But running them over isn't advised. ;)

3 hours ago, Aquarius said:

Although, did anyone ever ask Donald Trump what newspapers he read?  And if not, why the hell not?  The answer would have been similarly enlightening, I'm sure.

He obviously reads the NY Times, though only when it's about him, because he loves to complain about it and say it's "failing." Subscribe if you can! Otherwise, he has no intellectual curiosity, no desire to learn anything that cannot benefit him.

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

As I remember, the person who wrote the article even made note of the wording in light of what he's been charged with.

Ah, I confess I didn't click on the source because I am not giving People my clicks. Thanks for the extra info; I'm glad to hear it was commented on!

I just ordered a "Nasty Woman" T-shirt that benefits Planned Parenthood thanks to Samantha Bee, so I've got that to look forward to.

[abstractstuff]

I didn't win. I voted for Hillary.. But, I am not going to lie down in the corner and not leave my house and whine and cry. That is what was expected, and they are getting exactly what they want. 

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, auntl said:

60 million people voted for Trump. People from all different walks of life. Different educational levels, races, genders, and religions. The bottom line is that half of the voters in this country don't agree with the posters on this board. 

I have tried to give another point of view. The heck with it, stay in your little bubble if you want.

Sorry, but you haven't given another pov at all. All you've said is that these people aren't stupid or racist. You haven't responded to people telling you that they're reacting to Trump's actual policies that he's put forth and the consequences and the fact that the people who are going to be hurt by this (or more accurately, the people who KNOW they're going to be hurt by this) are going to be hurt by this. Your seems to just be that everyone who voted for Trump are good people. Why would the person facing a rollback of their rights or slurs shouted at them have that priority? 

I want the best for everybody in the country. I want people to have good salaries at all levels. The only thing I'd be comfortable taking away from anyone is an unfair advantage that is unfair to begin with.  So what exactly is the issue? Your actual candidate ran on a platform of insulting and attacking other people and you're upset that those people think badly of you for voting for him? I want all the same basic rights and safety for the most virulent Trump supporter as I do for anyone else. Can you say the same? That is, can you say that you voted for the same--based on what Trump was putting forth and not just saying now that we should just ignore anything that sounds bigoted? Why were you okay with that? 

Also while your post makes it seem like Trump’s followers were a big rainbow coalition, there was a difference between white people and everyone else here. Sure there were people of other racists too who liked the authoritarian thing, but white nationalism was an important part of his campaign and white people were his main support. You don't get to pretend that doesn't exist in this context. White people heard that same whistle as everyone else.

4 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

All I am seeing now is a bunch of crying and petitions to change the law and weakness and whining. It's embarrassing.

Oh, I've seen a lot of the opposite of weakness. Lots of people are already off their knees and ready to fight for the rights of their fellow citizens. They're not asking anybody to validate their being good people either. 

[ClareWalks]

1 minute ago, abstractstuff said:

I didn't win. I voted for Hillary.. But, I am not going to lie down in the corner and not leave my house and whine and cry. That is what was expected, and they are getting exactly what they want. 

If us crying is exactly what they want, then why are they telling us to stop crying and get over it? I too won't, like, not leave my house at all, but it's tough in the red states to be like "whee, let's go out and face all my neighbors" about it :-P

[formerlyfreedom]

We will lock this thread (and possibly the forum) permanently if people cannot be civil to one another.

ETA: Things have been getting heated in here today. Please note, this is not directed at any one single poster. The topic is going to lock until 7:30 ET/ 6:30 CT so everyone sees this note.

[NinjaPenguins]

Say, I wonder if Canada would be interested in a new province. They could name it New England. Call us, Justin!

[FuriousStyles]

There's a famous quote from Joe Biden that goes: Indifference is silence and silence is consent.

Even if I were to concede that most of Trump's supporters weren't racist, xenophobic or misogynistic, the fact that they supported someone who is, is still despicable.  60 million Trump voters threw the rest of us under the bus. There are millions of people who are legitimately fearful for their LIVES.  Not their factory job or their small business or their health care premium  (which Im not saying arent legit concerns)...but their LIVES.  There's already been a spike in hate crimes over the last week, and the two biggest companies dealing with private prisons had their stocks soar.  Anyone want to guess who's going to be filling those prisons?  A hint: it aint the major demo who voted for Trump.

That is something Trump supporters dont understand or more likely just dont give a shit about. Must be nice to be a straight white male and not have to think about being hunted.

And what's most disgusting is that Trump never provided any details into how he would get back those factory jobs, or help small business owners or replace Obamacare or deport 10 million illegals or get Mexico to build that wall. No details on anything.  So those millions of people were thrown under the bus for what exactly? A hope and a prayer?

Edited November 12, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[DeLurker]

3 hours ago, YesWeCantNotKnope said:

“Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to president Trump.

To borrower from a classic film:  Bow to the King of Slime, the King of Filth, the King of Putrescence. Boo. Boo. Rubbish. Filth. Slime. Muck. Boo. Boo. Boo.

 

@clb1016 - I had not heard about the safety pin campaign - thank you!

Edited November 12, 2016 by DeLurker

[Menrva]

1 hour ago, auntl said:

60 million people voted for Trump. People from all different walks of life. Different educational levels, races, genders, and religions. The bottom line is that half of the voters in this country don't agree with the posters on this board. 

I have tried to give another point of view. The heck with it, stay in your little bubble if you want.

If anyone is living in a bubble, I would suggest it's the Trump supporters. They want a world where they can ignore the rampant sexism, racism, bigotry and boundless ignorance of the man they voted into the highest office in our land. And claim that they're not any of those things. And ignore what that means for many, many people who are different from them. And if the people who voted for Trump really want the rest of us to cooperate, then we need proof. The acts of violence against people of color, of Muslim faith, against queer and trans people are not outliers - it needs to stop.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Menrva
I originally wrote that "The acts of violence against people of color, of Muslim faith, against queer and trans people are not outliers - it's the new norm and it needs to stop." That's ignorant of me - it's been that way all along and some of us forgot

[CherryMalotte]

Big hug to everybody, even those that I don't agree with.  

I have a very interesting home dynamic now - I'm the Clinton voter, the husband is the Trump voter.  There was a lively (screaming) discussion last night.  Strange bedfellows again!

Edited November 12, 2016 by CherryMalotte

[dcalley]

1 hour ago, galax-arena said:

The vast majority of his support came from straight white people. 58% of white people voted for Trump. No majority of any other race voted for him. 88% of black people voted for Hillary. I mean, I guess you can say that his support came from everywhere because, hey, 12% of black people voted for Trump, but I'm not going to ignore that his only majority support was from white people. 

I'm not arguing with your numbers, but voter turnout is never 100% (it seems to have been 57% this time), so I think it's more accurate (albeit cumbersome) to say "N% of white people who voted did so for Y," etc.

Edited November 12, 2016 by dcalley

[Deanie87]

So I guess I'll respectfully ask those who voted for Trump if they can understand the point of view of those who are now sad and sincerely afraid, either for their personal safety or for the future of our country.  And if so, how do you feel about that?  Do you think that people are overreacting?  Do you think that Trump was misunderstood? Do you agree that Trump said some truly despicable things, but that this is just politics as usual or is it more that, "yeah he's not real nice, but his threats and hate don't affect me or anyone that I really care about so it's worth it?"  Is it just because you always vote Republican no matter what? Do you truly have no reservations about supporting a candidate who was endorsed by the KKK and white supremacy groups, and never renounced them?  Or is it that again, it doesn't affect anyone you know personally, so it doesn't really matter to you?  I guess what I"m trying to understand is how all of these non-bigoted, open-minded people justify the things that they heard him and many of his supporters say and do (and I do mean heard and said because its on both audio and video, its not just rumor or a photoshopped meme)?  To me, it seems that for Trump supporters, it is either that whatever "change" he is going to bring is worth fellow Americans feeling unsafe and unwanted in their own country, at the very least, or that on some level, they agree with his positions?  What is it that I'm missing?

For those Trump supporters who want to celebrate his win and praise the upcoming administration, I would suggest starting a new thread.  I doubt many people from here will bother you there.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Deanie87

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, maasa said:

FTR I'm fine with being a "hateful sore loser" by anyone who condoned Trump's platforms of bigotry and hate by casting their vote for him.  I stand behind my feelings of concern for my fellow citizens of this great country. Feel free to call it a temper tantrum or some other derogatory phrase. I'm used to it because the President Elect and his supporters have referred to citizens of this country as far worse.

This is all going down similarly to Brexit. I'm a poster on several UK forums and after Brexit there was a sudden sharp turn to "shut up, you lost!" sentiments that became a new kind of default (and surprisingly accepted) attitude on many of them. In fact, even still if you go on those forums you will hear terms like "Remoaners" (for "Remainers") tossed around in virtually every post.

This is the new normal. God willing it isn't in a great place like Previously, but get used to it in general.

I actually don't mind Trump supporters showing up and trying to explain the details of their support. In fact, I've been wishing for it for quite some time. The problem is that in practice it tends to go VERY wrong when that support seems (to me at least) to come down to platitudes vs. evidence/facts, people start to argue about that, and then things go ugly (on both sides) really quickly. 

It hurts that I work in an environment that's almost totally minorities (Muslims, African-Americans, and yes.... Mexicans all represented, among others). So all the people I see in my daily life are terrified. So personally I need to hear some rational arguments from the Trump supporter side to convince me that all of these hard working, for the most part totally honest, people shouldn't BE afraid. Unless the attitude is that those folks don't NEED to be reassured, because they shouldn't be here anyway. If that's the starting point for any conversation, I'm kind of stuck moving past it. But that's just me, I guess. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Kromm

[RHJunkie]

50 minutes ago, NinjaPenguins said:

Say, I wonder if Canada would be interested in a new province. They could name it New England. Call us, Justin!

As a Canadian, I'll try to put in a good word, haha. 

Emotions are certainly raw and high right now and while I do think labelling all Trump voters as bigots is a bit extreme, I would more say they have come across as quite uninformed about the issues and policies in place to address those issues. Trump made a lot of promises without any real plans in place for how to reasonably meet the promises he was making and people voted for him anyway. Not all of his voters may be racist but I'm pretty sure every racist voter voted for him and there's a reason for that - Trump explicitly and implicitly endorsed racist, sexist and ignorant rhetoric that has given 'ugly' people the confidence to come out and display that ugliness. It would be nice if Trump actually spoke out and said that the incidents he's hearing about is not what he stands for as a person - you can't call people out to unite when you sit and do nothing while white supremacists run around harassing and abusing people while chanting your name. 

It's only two days and the stories I'm hearing are disgusting and one too many. A strong economy is important but not at the expense of basic human rights. Who someone chooses to marry or pray to has ZERO impact on building a strong community. I think people who support Trump based purely on an economic stance are really fooling themselves. A strong economy cannot benefit everyone if there are also laws in place that support the discrimination against certain peoples. How does an LGBT member benefit from a stronger economy when people are given the allowance to fire them, not hire them, to displace them from their home, etc.? Laws should not govern how people choose to live their lives.

And after reading many Republican opinions across the internet that try to throw freedom of speech in the face of liberal minded voters - let's be clear - respecting differences in opinion should be about things such as liking cats over dogs, tea over coffee, etc. There is no obligation to respect a difference in opinion that is racist, sexist, ignorant to the core. People have the freedom to speak and reveal their ugly souls, don't tell me that I need to respect what they say. Absolutely not. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by RHJunkie

[DeLurker]

3 hours ago, YesWeCantNotKnope said:

 

Stupid quote box. 

[AmandaPanda]

John Scalzi posted a really excellent post on his blog with an analogy for how people who supported Trump may have rationalized their support for voting for him even though they don't agree with the racist things he says. I found it really interesting. It's called "The Cinemax Theory of Racism." 

My dad voted for Trump and I haven't called home since the election because I don't trust myself not to start yelling at him. Is my dad super close-minded? Yes. Does he have some extremely offensive views on immigrants and LGBTQ issues? Absolutely. But he's also not someone who screams racial slurs at people. He even said before the election that he didn't think Trump was presidential material, but he felt he had no other choice in this election. He has always equated the Democratic party with Communists and feels that the country got worse over the last 8 years. He also wanted to be able to vote for Bush for a 3rd term because he felt McCain was too liberal. After reading Scalzi's blog post, though, I understood more of how my dad might have been thinking. I'm still pissed as hell, but it'll take time for that to go away. 

[ruby24]

I'd like to ask Trump voters sincerely if they believe that a completely unqualified, mentally unstable person who knows nothing about any single issue related to foreign policy should be in charge of our military and given our nuclear codes. Do you think the Commander-in-Chief is a figurehead position only? That the guy in that office makes no real decisions regarding people's lives and deaths?

Why do you think someone so unfit can handle that position? That his behavior will lead him to take the job seriously? That the host of Celebrity Apprentice should be sitting in the Situation Room and in charge of such serious decisions regarding nuclear weapons and military operations?

I really mean that, because I know that any other Republican, as much as I hate a lot of them, would at least TRY to protect the safety of the nation and not openly collude with our enemies who are hostile to us. I'd really like to ask why that does not bother you.

Edited November 12, 2016 by ruby24

[NewDigs]

Lot of work to do readying for 2018.

Stuff up for grabs.

Michael Moore is on Chris. Hooray!

[Iris987]

6 minutes ago, Kromm said:

FTR I'm fine with being a "hateful sore loser" by anyone who condoned Trump's platforms of bigotry and hate by casting their vote for him.  I stand behind my feelings of concern for my fellow citizens of this great country. Feel free to call it a temper tantrum or some other derogatory phrase. I'm used to it because the President Elect and his supporters have referred to citizens of this country as far worse.

Does anyone really think Trump and his dreadful family would be magnanimous in defeat and taking it with grace? We'd be in Day 3 of burning the house down if he had lost. Regardless, there's nothing wrong with wallowing in misery for a bit. It wasn't even my election and I wallowed the first day. Now I'm pissed and looking to vent. May God have mercy on the next unsolicited telemarketer who calls me.

[Menrva]

19 minutes ago, Kromm said:

This is the new normal. God willing it isn't in a great place like Previously, but get used to it in general.

I actually don't mind Trump supporters showing up and trying to explain the details of their support. In fact, I've been wishing for it for quite some time. The problem is that in practice it tends to go VERY wrong when that support seems (to me at least) to come down to platitudes vs. evidence/facts, people start to argue about that, and then things go ugly (on both sides) really quickly. 

I know I'm still very angry and I am still finding it hard to be generous, but I do want to know if Trump voters who don't see themselves as racist or bigoted would stand up and protest some of the violence being carried out now. I just saw on the news that KKK flyers are being distributed throughout Lyndhurst, NJ. Would they stand with us against the KKK? Or would they shrug and say, "Hey, not my problem," or just assume it's Democratic troublemakers being paid to make Republicans look bad? Because that's what I've seen so far. Will they continue to get annoyed with us because we're rocking the boat and making them think about things that they really don't want to think about? Because then they have to admit that they're part of the problem and they haven't done anything to make it better.

Quote

There is a way to disagree with people without totally decimating them. I respect every American's right to their own opinion. I think that everyone should vote for who they want and I respect them for their opinion.

That is not the prevailing attitude on this board. Go back and read through this board. Trump supporters (60 million people) have been accused of vile things and degraded for daring to have a different opinion than some of the posters on this board.

This is not the way that the United States is supposed to work.

You're right, this isn't how the United States is supposed to work. But we're not having a difference of opinion here: one side is upset about injustice and racism and the other side doesn't care. That's not disagreeing about policy and it's not intolerance. Pointing out the truth is not intolerance. Prove to me that Trump isn't a racist and bigot and show me the good works he has done throughout his life that demonstrate his love for the American people. Come and stand against the KKK and help protect Muslim Americans who love this country and only want a good life for their family. Help protect women's rights to adequate healthcare and stand against anti-gay bigotry. Please.

If Trump voters are innocent of vile things then they will rise up when they see their fellow Americans being degraded and insulted. It's so much more than a simple difference of opinion. It's people's lives here. If we're all in this together, then don't gloat. Help us to really make it better. Don't get defensive when unpleasant realities are pointed out. Please.

I don't want to be this angry for the rest of my life. And I don't want my children to live in fear. It can get better, but it requires all of us to take a good look at ourselves and acknowledge some ugly truths. I know I have a long way to go myself.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Menrva

[galax-arena]

Quote

I respect every American's right to their own opinion.

I respect every American's right to their own opinions. But by the same token, I also have the right to my opinion about their opinions. 

Respecting someone's right to their own opinions doesn't mean I have to respect the opinion itself.

Edited November 12, 2016 by galax-arena

[RHJunkie]

12 minutes ago, auntl said:

There is a way to disagree with people without totally decimating them. I respect every American's right to their own opinion. I think that everyone should vote for who they want and I respect them for their opinion.

That is not the prevailing attitude on this board. Go back and read through this board. Trump supporters (60 million people) have been accused of vile things and degraded for daring to have a different opinion than some of the posters on this board.

This is not the way that the United States is supposed to work.

 So if a person said to your face that they voted for Trump because he wants to get rid of minorities and they are in support of making America 'white' again...you would respect their right to this opinion? Isn't that part of the problem when we begin to think it's okay for people to have a right to speak with hatred and ignorance? 

Also, the United States is supposed to work in protecting the basic human rights of every American citizen yet its government still tries to find ways to compromise those rights. I would say that's a far bigger issue than it being un-American to call a certain group of voters to be bigots, sexists or whatever else. To be clear, I don't agree with generalizing anyone's character BUT at the end of the day, they made the choice to co-sign that behaviour but selecting his name on the ballot. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by RHJunkie

[FuriousStyles]

14 minutes ago, auntl said:

There is a way to disagree with people without totally decimating them. I respect every American's right to their own opinion. I think that everyone should vote for who they want and I respect them for their opinion.

That is not the prevailing attitude on this board. Go back and read through this board. Trump supporters (60 million people) have been accused of vile things and degraded for daring to have a different opinion than some of the posters on this board.

This is not the way that the United States is supposed to work.

I respect everyone's right to have an opinion, but I dont have to respect the actual opinion. When someone says that global warming is a hoax cooked up by the Chinese...do I really need to respect that opinion? Wouldnt I be well within my right to question that person's intelligence and/or sanity?  When opinions aren't based in reality or fact I have a right to dismiss it as complete trash. 

IF a candidate bases his campaign on racist, xenophobic and misogynistic rhetoric AND doesnt provide any details about actual policy issues then what exactly did 60 million vote for him for?  I mean 70% of the population agree that Trump is unfit and unqualified...so again what is it about him that warranted a vote? I dont think its a stretch to say Trump's supporters are racists, xenophobic, misogynistic  (or couldnt are less about tbose things) since those are the only definitive things Trump ran his campaign on.  Oh I guess they all loved his business acumen (even though he filed for bankruptcy 3 times and lost a billion dollars in 1 year). 

Edited November 12, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[catrox14]

13 minutes ago, auntl said:

There is a way to disagree with people without totally decimating them. I respect every American's right to their own opinion. I think that everyone should vote for who they want and I respect them for their opinion.

That is not the prevailing attitude on this board. Go back and read through this board. Trump supporters (60 million people) have been accused of vile things and degraded for daring to have a different opinion than some of the posters on this board.

This is not the way that the United States is supposed to work.

How did Trump behave with his opponents during the debates and in general during his campaign?

Edited November 12, 2016 by catrox14

[fireice13]

I'm also starting to get mad at the Democrats. First of all, I don't like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders saying they'll work with Trump on things they can agree on. Why? The Republicans blocked everything for six years and refused to do anything and they got rewarded with all three branches of government. Why do the Democrats have to be the better people, the peacemakers, the ones willing to compromise?

Second of all, Democrats suck at campaigning. They should've been in all those white working class areas working to get the voters who really are suffering. They never would have reached the ones who are racist or sexist, but I think they could have persuaded a lot of the undecideds who really weren't sure who to vote for. It wouldn't have been that difficult of a message. All they had to say over and over again is that "Congressional Republicans are to blame for your problems. We have the policies that will help you and they refuse to work with us and are blocking everything we want to do to help you. If you vote for Democrats up and down the ballot, we can win back Congress and keep the White House and we promise you that we will make your life better." That message blasted over and over in the upper midwest probably would have gotten them the votes they needed since it was so close in those states. 

I remember a quote from an article last spring that is seared in my memory - "Never, ever, ever underestimate the Democrats abilities to do themselves in."

[EyewatchTV211]

12 hours ago, Revlonred said:

I feel like I'm going crazy, and then I feel like I'm not. I could not sleep last night thinking about Germany.  (I'm Jewish and my family has a strong history with the holocaust.  And you know what, I'm kind of scared that I'm posting this.)  Trump passing me by on the street doesn't scare me, but the people around him, the ones who helped him win this and who are going to be pulling the strings, probably front and center...no hiding anymore...are really terrifying.

So, should I not be posting that?  I'm asking for real.  Because I'm really scared.  As my husband said, we're not on the top of the list, but we're on the list.

I know this post is from awhile back, but I was at work while a million people posted afterwards (sorry for the exaggeration). Anyway, not sure if you had gone back and seen my posts. I didn't say so when posting, but I too felt a bit of hesitation in posting and exposing myself in this way.

And to those who say it is exaggerating to compare Trump and/or his likely cabinet members to Hitler, I feel we can't yet know that it is exaggerating. Better to be watchful and careful than assume all will be fine and do nothing. Right now this country does not look like what was described elsewhere on this thread related to Nazi Germany, but right now we still have a president who respects all types of people and who respects the various aspects of maintaining our democracy. It is a huge question mark what things will look like after January 20th. This is unprecedented in modern times in this country. The Germans seem to see major warning signs: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/note-to-america-from-people-of-germany-donald-trump-adolf-hitler_uk_581f6e34e4b09d57a9a8d29a

And not sure how many saw this, but the neo-nazis certainly aren't hiding their major desire to have a country without Jews: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/09/alt-right-leaders-we-aren-t-racist-we-just-hate-jews.html

As others have posted, they are expecting leadership positions due to their support of Trump. If they get them, who knows what can happen. If Trump finds a way to silence the media like his buddy Putin, who knows what can happen. And on and on and on with possibilities based on what has been said and done so far.

Might things not go this far? Possibly. But I'm not going to pretend that it isn't a possibility and act like everything is fine and dandy and just like every other time the country elected a president I did not want, which has happened. 

[magdalene]

I don't understand why people have this notion that Trump is of and for the "little people".  This is a man who never had to struggle a day in his life. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and got a lot of money from his daddy to get his business started.    He lives in gaudy, gold decorated abodes that look like the tackiness fairy threw up in them. He has gold toilets for crying out loud!  (I shudder to think  what he will do to the White House decor.)

But it makes me sad to hear of flag burnings and vandalizing etc. . That never helps and gets folks labeled as anarchists and criminals.

What helps is finding ways to obstruct the Trump administration within the legal system. There has to be something people can do.  In two years there is a chance for Democrats to get power in the Senate back. 

Meanwhile, I plan to not give my money or my business to organisations, businesses, private parties who are Trump supporters and/or right wing Republican.  It's usually pretty easy to find out what businesses  are pro Republican and or pro Trump in your community - right now especially the Trumpers like to boast all over twitter and facebook of how the tears of the defeated liberals are so satisfying - sometimes they do this on the same page advertising for their business.

I don't go to movies that star right wing actors. I never visit Seaworld.  I don't watch Tom Sellecks TV show.  I don't buy products that Tom Brady endorses (I stopped watching the New England Patriots because  Brady and their coach support Trump.) I don't give any money (or buy any cookies, etc.) to the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America.  It may seem like a little thing to do but it can make a difference.  For example, Seaworld was forced to make a lot of changes that benefit the animals in their "care" after their business and attendance was down. 

[Deanie87]

1 minute ago, VMepicgrl said:

I know this post is from awhile back, but I was at work while a million people posted afterwards (sorry for the exaggeration). Anyway, not sure if you had gone back and seen my posts. I didn't say so when posting, but I too felt a bit of hesitation in posting and exposing myself in this way.

And to those who say it is exaggerating to compare Trump and/or his likely cabinet members to Hitler, I feel we can't yet know that it is exaggerating. Better to be watchful and careful than assume all will be fine and do nothing. Right now this country does not look like what was described elsewhere on this thread related to Nazi Germany, but right now we still have a president who respects all types of people and who respects the various aspects of maintaining our democracy. It is a huge question mark what things will look like after January 20th. This is unprecedented in modern times in this country. The Germans seem to see major warning signs: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/note-to-america-from-people-of-germany-donald-trump-adolf-hitler_uk_581f6e34e4b09d57a9a8d29a

And not sure how many saw this, but the neo-nazis certainly aren't hiding their major desire to have a country without Jews: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/09/alt-right-leaders-we-aren-t-racist-we-just-hate-jews.html

As others have posted, they are expecting leadership positions due to their support of Trump. If they get them, who knows what can happen. If Trump finds a way to silence the media like his buddy Putin, who knows what can happen. And on and on and on with possibilities based on what has been said and done so far.

Might things not go this far? Possibly. But I'm not going to pretend that it isn't a possibility and act like everything is fine and dandy and just like every other time the country elected a president I did not want, which has happened. 

For whatever this is worth, my husband works for a German company and talks with Germans and colleagues from other countries all day long, and has done for over a decade.  The day after the election, his colleagues were very upset and very worried about the US.  One person in particular actually told him, "this is how it begins."  Now, I don't know this person, I wasn't on the call, and my husband has said that many of the Germans that he works with are a bit disdainful of America in general LOL!  BUT they take this kind of stuff very, very seriously and they are super, duper vigilant about it as well, and will not tolerate any kind behavior (even jokingingly)  that may seem to include even a whiff of fascism, etc.  At least at my husband's company and at least among every single German that he works with.  I will say that this really gave my husband pause and he came downstairs quite shaken after that conversation.

[Pixel]

6 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I don't understand why people have this notion that Trump is of and for the "little people".  This is a man who never had to struggle a day in his life. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and got a lot of money from his daddy to get his business started.    He lives in gaudy, gold decorated abodes that look like the tackiness fairy threw up in them. He has gold toilets for crying out loud!  (I shudder to think  what he will do to the White House decor.)

But it makes me sad to hear of flag burnings and vandalizing etc. . That never helps and gets folks labeled as anarchists and criminals.

What helps is finding ways to obstruct the Trump administration within the legal system. There has to be something people can do.  In two years there is a chance for Democrats to get power in the Senate back. 

Meanwhile, I plan to not give my money or my business to organisations, businesses, private parties who are Trump supporters and/or right wing Republican.  It's usually pretty easy to find out what businesses  are pro Republican and or pro Trump in your community - right now especially the Trumpers like to boast all over twitter and facebook of how the tears of the defeated liberals are so satisfying - sometimes they do this on the same page advertising for their business.

I don't go to movies that star right wing actors. I never visit Seaworld.  I don't watch Tom Sellecks TV show.  I don't buy products that Tom Brady endorses (I stopped watching the New England Patriots because  Brady and their coach support Trump.) I don't give any money (or buy any cookies, etc.) to the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America.  It may seem like a little thing to do but it can make a difference.  For example, Seaworld was forced to make a lot of changes that benefit the animals in their "care" after their business and attendance was down. 

I've been needing new running shoes and usually buy New Balance. Not anymore. There are plenty of good brands who didn't just support Trump today. 

[Grommet]

7 minutes ago, Pixel said:

There are plenty of good brands who didn't just support Trump today. 

This is how to be heard in a capitalist society. Consumers really can make a difference, I think.

 

1 minute ago, auntl said:

You can stay in your bubble and keep telling yourself that you are superior

I'm not going to apologize for thinking I'm better than a racist or a sexist or an uneducated person who blames immigration for the loss of jobs due to changing technology. Maybe the half of America (who voted, that is) that feels they haven't been heard haven't been listening themselves.

[Revlonred]

Thank you, Vmepicgrl, for such a thoughtful post.  In so many places we are already being told to stop whining, that it's never going to happen.  But everything you said put it perfectly.  I don't have enough fingers to count all of my grandmother's siblings, aunts, uncles, father.... that were killed in the camps.  We do not know where this is going for sure, but we cannot say that these people who will be in positions of power and influence don't want us gone, whatever that may mean.  To see current pictures of swastikas in my Facebook feed...I don't know what to say to anyone who has no empathy for that. 

[Deanie87]

17 minutes ago, auntl said:

I will try one last time. You can stay in your bubble and keep telling yourself that you are superior, or you could try to understand why half of the American people don't agree with you.

It's easy to just say that they are stupid, they are racists, they are not as good as you. It's harder to research and truly learn what motivates half of the American people not to agree with you.

That is truly and respectfully what I was asking in my post above.  What motivated you (assuming you voted for him) and how do you feel about the bigoted stuff that he and some of his more rabid supporters have said and done?  I'm sorry, but I can't just pretend that Trump didn't say or do those things. If they didn't bother you then that's my answer.  If they did, but you voted for him anyway, then I sincerely want to know why.  Personally, it was unacceptable to me therefore I couldn't vote for him, though I didn't love Hillary.  But I get that it wasn't that unacceptable to others because clearly they voted for him, and I am sincerely wondering about that. I am not calling anyone in this forum a racist or a bigot, but like it or not, Trump is, or at the very least, he doesn't reproach those of his followers who are.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Deanie87

[Shannon L.]

I heard a radio interview today with a Trump campaign member out of Iowa talking about the farmers and one thing he said is something that I'd heard before, in regards to Trump's rhetoric:  That they felt that he didn't mean those things. 

Then, of course, there are the ones, like the KKK, who felt like he did.  Which means two things are happening both of which are scary to me:

1.  If he does mean those things, we really do have a lying, sexist, racist, etc...bully as president, and some of his voters just don't care.

2.  If he didn't mean those things, he was tapped into the fact that a enough people do feel this way and was able to use it to his advantage.

auntl: People will stay in their bubble for a few days, then they'll figure it out.  I'm starting to emerge from mine.  Today, I turned on the news (when I swore it off for good a couple of days ago) and the interview I was listening to brought up the Clean Water Rule, which is something that most of the farmers hate and what Trump told them he'd get rid of.  I don't know what's in it, so I have it bookmarked so I can read up on it when I get a chance. 

As for protests, I don't mind them as long as they are peaceful and as long as every single person in them bothered to vote (if you didn't, imo, you don't have a right to complain).  But, again, the hypocrisy kills me.  There were a lot of Trump supporters promising a rebellion if Hillary won.  Heck, even what's his name Walsh (Joe? John?) tweeted about taking up a musket the day after if she won!

[galax-arena]

I've been needing new running shoes and usually buy New Balance. Not anymore. There are plenty of good brands who didn't just support Trump today.

And I just made my first Grubhub order! (I posted upthread about Grubhub's founder speaking out against Trump.) Not that I ever needed a reason to pig out, but now I can eat delicious take-out and feel righteous about it. :P

[Calvada]

Gregg Popovich in 2020!  I'm not an NBA fan, very rarely watch a professional basketball game, but by golly, I think I'm in love.  This is what he said about the election:

"What gets lost in the process are African-Americans, Hispanics, women and the gay population, not to mention the eighth-grade developmental stage exhibited by him when he made fun of the handicapped person," he said. "I mean, come on. That's what an eighth-grade bully does, and he was elected president of the United States. We would have scolded our kids. We would have had discussions and talked until we were blue in the face trying to get them to understand these things. And he is in charge of our country. That's disgusting."

When a reporter interrupted to start a new line of questioning, Popovich cut him off.

"I'm not done," he said. "One could go on and on. We didn't make this stuff up. He's angry at the media because he reported what they said, and how he acted. It's ironic to me. It just makes no sense. So that's my real fear. And that's what gives me so much pause and makes me feel so badly, that the country is willing to be that intolerant and not understand the empathy that's necessary to understand other groups' situations.

"I'm a rich white guy. And I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I couldn't imagine being a Muslim right now or a woman or an African-American, a Hispanic, a handicapped person, and how disenfranchised they might feel. And for anyone in those groups that voted for him, it's just beyond my comprehension how they ignored all that."