S04.E14: Till Death Do Us Part

[Snarklepuss]

23 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Then Lily and Tom.   I know she cares for him, but not wanting kids from her is a big deal, at least to me .. And then that stuff that he wants to live life NOW and go on the bus a lot and not change his lifestyle is also asking too much.  Is she afraid she won't find another guy if she ends it with Tom.  It's not. Like she's old .. She's still in her middle twenties.  I think both girls are desperate.

I don't think Lilly is desperate.  She's young and knows she has time to find someone else if things with Tom don't work out.  She seems fully confident in her ability to attract a guy and doesn't seem to be in any special rush, so I don't think she has any fears of ending up with no one.  I do agree that Sonia reeks of desperation, though.  I think her baby clock is going off since she's already in her early 30s plus she has baggage from some failed relationships making her question her ability to find and hold onto a guy.  Hence her compulsion to try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear in Nick.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[athousandclowns]

Can someone new tell me how to w long this show is? My DVR is taping for 2 1/2 hours. Which will be torture. 

[Evil Queen]

My dvr is saying 2 hours and 18 mins but at least you can fast forward with the dvr. LOL

Edited October 26, 2016 by Evil Queen

[okerry]

My first thought on seeing the two decisions was, "How much of a bonus did the Show give these four people if they'd pretend to stay married for the cameras?"

[ChristmasJones]

I cannot believe Sonia decided to stay with Nick.  UGH!!!!

[Bees52]

Grrr... they just couldn't resist including Derrick and Heather's mess in this episode too. No need, we already know their decision! It was the two remaining couples who had my interest at this point. They should've just saved any of their new footage for the reunion.

[Jade Foxx]

I hate all these people. Even the camera crew. 

[Kareem]

The ladies are quirky as all get out but not stupid and are seemingly warm by nature. Why they stuck with these two useless troglodytes is beyond me.  Here's a hint – they don't change down the road.  

[Stillhoping]

I feel vindicated...all 3 guys are Ft Lauderdale....why say Miami all the time? Nick and friends were at Yolo on Las Olas ft lauderdale....nice area.

I think the experts pushed Sonia a lot

They gloss over the rotten stuff he said.

Tom and Lilly are great...congrats to them and much luck....i really hope they make it. 

I think they do...

Maybe they both thought Sonia and Nick were odd...I think they are.Sonia is a nice weirdo and Nick is a sullen weirdo with a nasty side. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Stillhoping
Edit

[ExplainItAgain]

Wait, wait, y'all! What was the bit with the pregnancy test during Lily and Tom's vision board?! Why didn't we see more about that?? Did they have a scare?

[Enero]

I haven't watched this episode and don't plan to. However I am poking my head in to see how it ended. 

 

Quote

That's what the show wants you to think, but I'm calling it now. Sonia will not move back in for the remainder of the show, making the audience thinks she's done. Then on decision day, she'll decide to continue with the "marriage" and "work things out" with Nick. It'll be the perfect "shocker" to the audience. Of course Sonia/Nick has a snowball's chance in hell at actually making it, but they'll at least stay together come decision day. After that it'll be over.

I posted this in the 4x12 thread. Not trying to toot my own horn but I called it. SMH. I hope Sonia staying in the marriage is her attempt at stretching her 5 seconds of fame into something more because if she really thinks she can have something with Nick she's more desperate and lacks more self confidence than I thought. 

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, belladonna77 said:

I felt that, too, and wondered if I was nitpicking.  I expected Lily and Sonia to be much more warm toward each other, but Lily came across almost cold.  Weird.  

 

8 hours ago, belladonna77 said:

I feel like Sonia was over the top when she fed Tom her food. 

Well, Lily does know that Tom loves curvy Latinas and Sonia is probably starved for affection after being married to Nick...just kidding.

Ladies, I think we are all aware when a guy is into us.  This also includes introverted socially awkward guys.   I know someone who is very aware when a guy "hate flirts" with her.  This is when an guy thinks he is being a playa by ignoring the girl and paying attention to other women, because he thinks this is having game and will make the girl like him more.

That being said, I think everyone agrees that Nick will never give Sonia the type of relationship she needs or desires.

Tom has many issues ( including being self centered), but I have no doubt he is very into Lily.  Their decision to stay together was probably the most organic decision we have seen since first season's Jason and Courtney.

I hope all the Married at First Sight swag was worth Sonia staying married to a man who is never going to make her feel good about herself.

[jamblastx]

Thank god this mess is over...I swear my like for this show has become extreme hate mostly due to the typical reality show editing and yet, I will be back for season five....but only because of this forum.

Tom/Lily - Not a shock and I kind of suspected that both his comments during the show and the editing created the question if he was going to stay married

Nick/Sonja - This is going to be a Tres/Vanessa situation where we find out soon afterwards that they are not married

Derek - I can't stand this douche.  Wearing your wedding ring out to try to meet women is pathetic....'oh look at me, I REALLY tried in my fake reality marriage'.  And his 'lifetime commitment' comment as to why he wears it.....jeez.  This guy reminds me of a former very close friend of mine who was all about martyrdom attention.  This guy left his wife for another woman and when that imploded soon afterwards, he tried to reconcile with his wife who actually tried but ultimately could not forgive him (and it wasn't his only transgression).  And then he would do the same type of thing that Derek would do when trying to meet women as if he was the one who was scorned by that evil witch while conveniently leaving out the part that he cheated on her multiple times and he was the one who wanted the divorce. 

The Experts -  Pastor Roberson needs to confront Nick's friend Ritchie for the missing 't' in his name.  Dr. Pepper could not have summarized Derek and Heather more incorrectly...there was NOT initial sparks when they met (only for him and mild at best for her) and things did not unravel AFTER the honeymoon, they unraveled immediately ON the honeymoon.  And the other blonde expert seems to only provide recaps of what we have already seen and already know and provide the most generic, vanilla advice.

The Production - They do a disservice to the show with the horrific editing and made up circumstances.  It's just awful

[Drogo]

As John 8:7 tells us, "Let him/her without sin of ever saying something mean to a new girlfriend/boyfriend in an argument while they were feeling cornered and drinking cast the first stone." Or was that Johnny Walker 8:7, I can't remember.  Either way, no stones at Nick coming from my direction.

If they stay married, I have no doubt he'll remember every birthday and anniversary and never stop at the coffee place without also getting her whatever her favorite Decaf-Nonfat-ExtraFoam-LiteOnTheCaramel drink there is.  In my life I've known a lot of men who got married.  The men like Nick who started out hesitant+anxious+boring and in almost all cases turned out to be much more devoted husbands down the line than guys who started out fiery+passionate+amorous.  The Nick types are all still married and have created stronger roots with their wives, and their wives adore them because they know they weren't like that with everyone (including them at the onset.)  They're not exciting and never will be, and they're not everyone's cup of tea, but they're loving in the ways that their partners require.  A lid for every pot, they say. 

At the very least, I feel that Sonia and Nick have been themselves.  I also don't buy that the producers force them to do anything, or this show would have better stats.

Lily for me has always been a try-hard bordering on phony with a veil of desperation and Tom an indulgent brat.  Even the way she cocks her head to the side while Tom is speaking so that we can all tell that she's actively listening to his every word.  It also seems like Tom didn't have to work for a drop of her physical or emotional affection; in my experience that will create a void in appreciation and he'll want someone a step "above" her.  Not that he deserves it, but he'll think he does. 

[qtpye]

17 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Lily for me has always been a try-hard bordering on phony with a veil of desperation and Tom an indulgent brat.  Even the way she cocks her head to the side while Tom is speaking so that we can all tell that she's actively listening to his every word.  It also seems like Tom didn't have to work for a drop of her physical or emotional affection; in my experience that will create a void in appreciation and he'll want someone a step "above" her.  Not that he deserves it, but he'll think he does. 

That's a very interesting take on situation and one I had not thought of before.  It will be interesting if the two people with no chemistry have a better relationship then the two that are extremely affectionate.

[Primetimer]

And more questions sparked by the Season 4 finale!

View the full article

[gonecrackers]

19 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If they stay married, I have no doubt he'll remember every birthday and anniversary and never stop at the coffee place without also getting her whatever her favorite Decaf-Nonfat-ExtraFoam-LiteOnTheCaramel drink there is.  In my life I've known a lot of men who got married.  The men like Nick who started out hesitant+anxious+boring and in almost all cases turned out to be much more devoted husbands down the line than guys who started out fiery+passionate+amorous.  The Nick types are all still married and have created stronger roots with their wives, and their wives adore them because they know they weren't like that with everyone (including them at the onset.)  They're not exciting and never will be, and they're not everyone's cup of tea, but they're loving in the ways that their partners require.  A lid for every pot, they say. 

The slow-to-warm-up, emotionally repressed is one thing, but the shouting out to the cameras that he didn't like her & wasn't attracted to her is quite another. Also in terms of love languages Sonia seems like she needs more outward affection, which is just not Nick's deal. If she stays with him it may be her settling; she may never really be happy no matter what his gifts or acts of service. And she has to completely forget those cold words that will be replayed over & over; maybe she can show the kids someday -this is how daddy treated mommy & mommy was okay with it... is daddy attracted to mommy? We still don't know...

Not a real healthy situation but it's what she got herself into by signing onto this show.

[Vinyasa]

I couldn't stay up and watch as it was dragging out. I did see Sonia and Nick- what a joke. They decide to stay married and there is still zero affection between them.

I didn't see Tom and Lilly but got all the info here. Too much dramatic music!!!

When is the six month show?

[Snarklepuss]

22 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Lily for me has always been a try-hard bordering on phony with a veil of desperation and Tom an indulgent brat.  Even the way she cocks her head to the side while Tom is speaking so that we can all tell that she's actively listening to his every word.  It also seems like Tom didn't have to work for a drop of her physical or emotional affection; in my experience that will create a void in appreciation and he'll want someone a step "above" her.  Not that he deserves it, but he'll think he does. 

The "old wives" wisdom my mother gave me when I was young is that the man should always be a little crazier about the woman than vice versa for a relationship to last for the long haul.  It was true in my own marriage and to be honest I have never seen the reverse work more than a finite number of years.  I don't know if I believe that Lilly is more into Tom than he is into her despite the "reservations" he expressed in his talking heads.  I definitely don't think he was as "undecided" as he was acting for the camera.  I think some of that was producer driven to add to the "drama" of decision day.  Plus some people just get last minute "cold feet" even though they basically want in.

I don't see Lilly as desperate or trying too hard.  I think she has mastered the ancient art of being sexy and looking cute to attract a man.  As a woman who once used those time honored techniques to their full advantage, I can find nothing wrong with them.  As far as not making Tom "work" for her, I'm not sure that is necessary with every guy and not sure with Tom either.  What makes me worry about Tom is Tom himself, not how Lilly is handling him.  I think she has handled him pretty well.  You may be right that he will want someone different - He admitted in this episode that Lilly was not exactly what he had in mind.  I think Lilly is his fantasy fling woman in a physical way but whether she can be his real life soul mate is yet another.  I don't see Tom as hung up on wanting a woman he can win over as a prize or conquest, I just think he would be better matched with a more free sprited type of woman who would dig the bus and the laid back lifestyle, and he may know that deep down.

[Snarklepuss]

49 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If they stay married, I have no doubt he'll remember every birthday and anniversary and never stop at the coffee place without also getting her whatever her favorite Decaf-Nonfat-ExtraFoam-LiteOnTheCaramel drink there is.  In my life I've known a lot of men who got married.  The men like Nick who started out hesitant+anxious+boring and in almost all cases turned out to be much more devoted husbands down the line than guys who started out fiery+passionate+amorous.  The Nick types are all still married and have created stronger roots with their wives, and their wives adore them because they know they weren't like that with everyone (including them at the onset.)  They're not exciting and never will be, and they're not everyone's cup of tea, but they're loving in the ways that their partners require.  A lid for every pot, they say.

I know the kind of guy you're talking about but I don't think Nick is one.  He has been way too much of a roller coaster ride, way too enigmatic, way too insufferable and hurtful to be that kind of guy.  I don't see him as being all that "devoted" to Sonia nor any potential for him becoming like the guys you're probably thinking of.  Nick is like a magic 8 ball.  You shake him up but you never know what you're going to get.  One day he'll walk in and claim he's just "not in love with you".  Like he thought he was but now he really doesn't know, whine, whine, mumble mumble.  Nick doesn't know himself so I really doubt he's going to make anyone a solid match even down the line unless he learns a WHOLE lot more about his own feelings.  When I studied Counseling Psychology I learned something very basic - That you can't understand and honor other people's feelings until you understand and honor your own.  Nick is so far from that I can't see him succeeding in any long term relationship, especially with Sonia.  I think she needs much more.  She is not cut out to be the Amy to Sheldon Cooper.  In fact, at this point Sheldon may even have him beat.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[SaucyMommy]

Well this was anti-climatic. I think the most un-shocking part was the monotone "I want to stay Married" part that Nick said - and then the not even kissing after the decision was made. I wonder if Nick slipped her a thousand before the decision and said "I'm going to try to save face cause I looked like a total douche nozzle before. So take this money - say you will stay married and then I don't look like a jerk. Then you can go make more sandwiches" 

[LennieBriscoe]

jamblastx, "Missing 't'"? We spell "Richie" as "Richie"! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Rich_(comics)

NICK: I think I've got it! He will look at Sonia as one of his pets who will be grateful and will fetch in return for some food, shelter, and pats on the head! Each has an off-putting, hesitant speaking style, so maybe they ARE well-matched!

I hate when production messes with syntax to try to fool viewers, to wit: This is the second season that a "Stay" was preceded by a "But" and then a commercial (this time by Lily).

And on a superficial (ha!) note, but since it was something the show took pains with, I feel it appropriate to acknowledge that both Sonia and Lily wore awesome lipstick throughout, and that each has a well-shaped showcase of a mouth. Missing product-placement opportunities, show!

Edited October 26, 2016 by LennieBriscoe

[Drogo]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

It will be interesting if the two people with no chemistry have a better relationship then the two that are extremely affectionate.

There is definitely visible Sonia->Nick chemistry, and while he's less obvious on camera they did have sex on multiple occasions so there is some Nick->Sonia chemistry.  I give no weight to that junk he said about not finding her attractive because of the context of the argument.  I also speak Man fluently.  English to Man translations below, in italics.

Background: Sonia talks to her friend who tells her that her past relationships have failed because she hasn't communicated herself well; Sonia interprets this suggestion as "Let's go tell Nick how much his communication sucks while I sit in the least 'open' way possible: arms and legs crossed in front, holding a pillow in front of me."

Sonia keeps telling Nick to "Open Up!" a phrase he hates and she apparently knows he hates.  (She knows I hate this and keeps saying it, so she doesn't care about me.)  He tells her to stop saying that and be more specific and she says "Open Up!" three more times. (She isn't listening to me.)  He tells her that deep down he feels like they shouldn't have to talk about their feelings and they should just go with the flow, she accuses him of being so defensive (She's saying I'm guilty of something.) He tries to leave the room and she tells him he's doing the thing she does that he hates (Now she sees why I hate it.) and a producer shouts at him that marriages take work (Now everyone's blaming me, I'm being ganged up on.) Since he can't remove himself from the situation without producers scolding him, he says something extreme to make it end. 

I called BS on a producer getting involved with and taking sides in their argument, and handicap his reactions by 150% because he was drinking and it was a terrible time to talk to him.   IMHO, biting when cornered does not a bad dog make.  And saying a mean thing about Sonia when he's cornered doesn't make Nick an abuser or emotional powderkeg. 

[SaucyMommy]

6 minutes ago, Drogo said:

There is definitely visible Sonia->Nick chemistry, and while he's less obvious on camera they did have sex on multiple occasions so there is some Nick->Sonia chemistry.  I give no weight to that junk he said about not finding her attractive because of the context of the argument.  I also speak Man fluently.  English to Man translations below, in italics.

Background: Sonia talks to her friend who tells her that her past relationships have failed because she hasn't communicated herself well; Sonia interprets this suggestion as "Let's go tell Nick how much his communication sucks while I sit in the least 'open' way possible: arms and legs crossed in front, holding a pillow in front of me."

Sonia keeps telling Nick to "Open Up!" a phrase he hates and she apparently knows he hates.  (She knows I hate this and keeps saying it, so she doesn't care about me.)  He tells her to stop saying that and be more specific and she says "Open Up!" three more times. (She isn't listening to me.)  He tells her that deep down he feels like they shouldn't have to talk about their feelings and they should just go with the flow, she accuses him of being so defensive (She's saying I'm guilty of something.) He tries to leave the room and she tells him he's doing the thing she does that he hates (Now she sees why I hate it.) and a producer shouts at him that marriages take work (Now everyone's blaming me, I'm being ganged up on.) Since he can't remove himself from the situation without producers scolding him, he says something extreme to make it end. 

I called BS on a producer getting involved with and taking sides in their argument, and handicap his reactions by 150% because he was drinking and it was a terrible time to talk to him.   IMHO, biting when cornered does not a bad dog make.  And saying a mean thing about Sonia when he's cornered doesn't make Nick an abuser or emotional powderkeg. 

I agree with this entirely. I mean how many of us have said awful things to our partners and been forgiven? I know I have! 

[potatochips]

Those gifts.....was there a $10 limit? After that segment, I was sure there would be no saved marriages.

[Vinyasa]

Nick shows more affection to his dogs, than Sonia.

So we have Nick and Sonia who decide to stay married but sit two feet apart and have no affection at their decision.

The dogs should have been there on decision day!

[gonecrackers]

11 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Sonia keeps telling Nick to "Open Up!" a phrase he hates and she apparently knows he hates.  (She knows I hate this and keeps saying it, so she doesn't care about me.)  He tells her to stop saying that and be more specific and she says "Open Up!" three more times. (She isn't listening to me.)  He tells her that deep down he feels like they shouldn't have to talk about their feelings and they should just go with the flow, she accuses him of being so defensive (She's saying I'm guilty of something.) He tries to leave the room and she tells him he's doing the thing she does that he hates (Now she sees why I hate it.) and a producer shouts at him that marriages take work (Now everyone's blaming me, I'm being ganged up on.) Since he can't remove himself from the situation without producers scolding him, he says something extreme to make it end. 

I agree on this & had mentioned some of it at the time - Sonia was extremely annoying that evening, the producer should not have gotten involved, & he was definitely tired & drunk so absolutely not the time for a deep convo.

However, I could never recover from a guy blurting that out after we'd been intimate even if it was just to me, never mind to the whole world (or whoever watches), but then I'm super sensitive, so it would be over in a heartbeat, like no friendship either. I could forgive but would've wished he'd told me that to begin with then okay we both need to move on with our lives, separately.

But that's just me so that's how I'm seeing it & internally responding. Maybe Sonia is desperate & lacks self respect, or maybe they do have something I'm not seeing on screen.

They need 5 & 10 year reunions as well for this show.

[qtpye]

56 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I know the kind of guy you're talking about but I don't think Nick is one.  He has been way too much of a roller coaster ride, way too enigmatic, way too insufferable and hurtful to be that kind of guy.  I don't see him as being all that "devoted" to Sonia nor any potential for him becoming like the guys you're probably thinking of.  Nick is like a magic 8 ball.  You shake him up but you never know what you're going to get.  One day he'll walk in and claim he's just "not in love with you".  Like he thought he was but now he really doesn't know, whine, whine, mumble mumble.  Nick doesn't know himself so I really doubt he's going to make anyone a solid match even down the line unless he learns a WHOLE lot more about his own feelings.  When I studied Counseling Psychology I learned something very basic - That you can't understand and honor other people's feelings until you understand and honor your own.  Nick is so far from that I can't see him succeeding in any long term relationship, especially with Sonia.  I think she needs much more.  She is not cut out to be the Amy to Sheldon Cooper.  In fact, at this point Sheldon may even have him beat.

I totally agree with Snarkle.  Nick has never put any of Sonia's needs before his own.  When he had the choice for doing something together, he chose a tandem bicycle with a go pro camera mounted to each of the handle bars.  This was a fantastic way to showcase another one of his Section 8 Yacht Club Shirts.  There was no thought to how the camera would be aiming for poor Sonia's breasts.  I have large breasts and it is hard enough to bicycle without the proper bra, without having a freaking camera pointing at your chest.

I also find it strange that Nick admitted to his friends that he was not attracted to Sonia, but that the attraction is growing with the friendship.  It's almost like he is playing out what a relationship is supposed to be, but does not have any clue about the fundamentals.

6 minutes ago, Drogo said:

There is definitely visible Sonia->Nick chemistry, and while he's less obvious on camera they did have sex on multiple occasions so there is some Nick->Sonia chemistry.  I give no weight to that junk he said about not finding her attractive because of the context of the argument.  I also speak Man fluently.  English to Man translations below, in italics.

I would not totally rule this out...but there is something weirdly lukewarm about his behavior.  Speaking as a hetero woman, I sincerely hope Sonia does not take his having sex with her as a sign of affection, since men can be very fickle about that sort of thing.

That being said, I can not totally disregard your point, because the guy did agree to stay married to her.  He had a get of jail free card and did not use it, so unless he is a giant fame whore, I do not know what his motivation would be to stay married to her.

I also wonder why you think Tom will eventually be looking for something better then Lily soon?  I think Lily is cute, but some posters have commented that Lily will not age well because of her body type and thinning hair.  I am sincerely asking, because I enjoy getting a man's perspective on such things.  Do you think when she is no longer young and cute, her try hard attitude will begin to annoy him?

[gonecrackers]

13 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

I agree with this entirely. I mean how many of us have said awful things to our partners and been forgiven? I know I have! 

I've been pushed badly like Nick was & so often at the wrong times - pick, pick, pick - & have exploded. However, it's been more like f--k off you --- whatever, which is bad enough, but not anything about attraction etc, which to me hits home more. I just find it hard to believe even a guy would say something like that just out of anger & not because there was at least some truth to it.

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

That being said, I can not totally disregard your point, because the guy did agree to stay married to her.  He had a get of jail free card and did not use it, so unless he is a giant fame whore, I do not know what his motivation would be to stay married to her.

Narcissists & intimacy anorexics will do things like that so they are not the bad guy. It's all about appearances - make her be the bad guy to want out, after I tried so hard... I don't know if this is Nick but people sometimes do that, even guys.

[Dittohead]

2 hours ago, jamblastx said:

Pastor Roberson needs to confront Nick's friend Ritchie for the missing 't' in his name.

Hilarious.

[Drogo]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I also wonder why you think Tom will eventually be looking for something better then Lily soon?  I think Lily is cute, but some posters have commented that Lily will not age well because of her body type and thinning hair.  I am sincerely asking, because I enjoy getting a man's perspective on such things.  Do you think when she is no longer young and cute, her try hard attitude will begin to annoy him?

My comment was more that he didn't have to earn any of his wife's love/affection because she just gave it to him.  (Note: this isn't just about how quickly they had sex though that's part of it.)  It may sound antiquated but in my life I had to work for her love, I had to show her I deserved her.  And many moons later I still know I'm lucky to have her and I know that she could be gone tomorrow if I don't keep on appreciating her.  Maybe it's me.  When I cook a meal myself it tastes better than if I go to a restaurant and a plate is put in front of me.  I'd rather save up and buy a car than have one given to me.

It's nothing to do with Lily's hair or her body or society's definition of traditional beauty; I've known 10's who I didn't want to even kiss and 4's that took over my dreams.  Lily is a beautiful girl, but the only value you have in life is the value you assign to yourself. 

Moreover, I just don't see any shared priorities between the two.  My beloved and I come from very different backgrounds and we have different primary and secondary "love languages" - but we also share many of the same values and wants.  We both wanted our own family, we both work very hard, we both stand up vehemently for things we believe in and defend people who can't defend themselves, we both want to be appreciated.  I love and respect the things about her that aren't true about me and vice versa, I don't just tolerate or avoid them as Tom and Lily seem to be doing with their differences.

That said, I also think "major lifestyle differences" are not easy to compromise, and they were a terrible match on the part of The Experts.  

[Dittohead]

56 minutes ago, potatochips said:

Those gifts.....was there a $10 limit?

Yeah, what kind of gift was that little chain necklace thingy without anything attached to it?  If I had been Sonia, I would have asked if the little pendant (or whatever) had fallen off?

[suzeecat]

"Actions speak louder than words" is one of my rules to live by.  And with Nick and Sonia I just don't see it.  When Sonia said "I'm moving back in" (the night BEFORE???), Nick says "yay, great" and that would have been cause for some type of hug, embrace, SOMETHING.  Instead he goes to pour himself another drink.  They exchange gifts and when they're done opening them and reading the cards, another opportunity for a thank-you hug.  Instead they back away.  No matter what Nick said, his facial expression never changed.  I can't stand him and would bet money that they don't last another six months. 

[Mlle. Kitty]

11 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Yeah me too.  It looked to me like Tom and Lilly thought Nick and Sonia were a little strange, hence the coldness.  Tom or Lilly (I forget which one) noticed that Nick and Sonia were not affectionate and seemed less emotionally involved with each other than they were.  Perhaps like us they notice their lack of connectedness and don't buy that they'll make it.  I'm sure that had to feel a little uncomfortable.  Judging from what Nick's friends said to him it's pretty obvious that they talk about behind his back about his lack of social/relationship skills.  I loved Nick's friends.  They're adults and the body language told me they see Nick as their emotionally r******* friend who is way past due on getting it together with women.  I think Sonia wanted to continue with Nick to see where it went because she is afraid she won't find anyone else after a string of unsuccessful relationships and being over 30.  She probably bought into the pressure from the "experts" plus Nick saying "what do you have to lose?" like he said to her in last weeks episode.  She seems a bit on the desperate side and probably doesn't want to give up even if it doesn't look good just in case things change.  I think she needs to watch the "Love Kernels" song from this weeks ep. of "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" because that's exactly what she's doing.  She's scraping the barrel to find evidence that Nick's the guy for her and that he really cares.

Tom and Lilly:  Eh, I knew they would stay together.  It seemed a foregone conclusion.  Tom's a douche but at times he has moments of wisdom so there's probably a little hope that he'll grow up in time.  I liked what he said about making a choice between what he wanted (bus beach life) and what he needed (Lilly).  I really hope he meant that.

I not only agree with your post in its entirety, but I also love and appreciate the CexG reference!  ("I'll take it.") I so desperately want that series to run its full course, which was envisioned to be four seasons if I'm remembering correctly.

Drogo, my apologies for veering off topic.

[kira28]

I have never seen Nick look so happy and genuinely laugh and smile as much as he did when Sonia  gave him those gifts.  Maybe his love language is giving receiving gifts.  Did anyone catch Sonia saying Nick shaves his entire body lol. I thought Sonia is stunningly beautiful with straight  hair and very little makeup with no dark lipstick when she's wearing a maroon shirt. 

Tom and lily worry me. . I don't think he's ever going to abandon his peter pan lifestyle .  Lily will probably want kids in the next five years and Tom would more than likely resent kids.  His neither and his mom both alluded to the fact that Tom is high maintenance and not very accommodating .  I don't think lily's work ethic and Tom's wanderlust lifestyle are compatible .  

Edited October 27, 2016 by kira28

[Madding crowd]

I'm glad I DVR'd this show because there was so much filler and repetition. I also hate that they must make the couples say things like "I really care about you, BUT I want to stay married". That doesn't even make sense. I can see why couples might stay together at this point. Even though the experts insist they either divorce immediately or stay married for all time, they can divorce whenever they want. Maybe they want to try things without the cameras rollings, who knows. I felt kind of bad for both Lilly and Sonia because they both seem like they are waiting around for the man and have no real say in whether they will make it as a couple. Lilly and Tom have lots of physical attraction and I think Lilly seems like a really good person, but they have values which are not in synch. Sonia and Nick seem to have zero physical attraction but like each other and have some values which are the same.

I continue to find the lack of physical contact to be troubling with Nick and Sonia. She always looks like she is waiting around for him to do something and then nothing. My favorite quote of the show was when the new expert lady (forgot her name) said: "Even if the couples all decide to divorce, it doesn't mean the show was not successful." Yes, dear it does. 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

 Nick says "yay, great" and that would have been cause for some type of hug, embrace, SOMETHING.  Instead he goes to pour himself another drink

Ha! These two are afraid to touch each other so there is no way I believe they had sex.  Never happened.

Did you see when he gets Sonia a glass of water he uses the sprayer from the faucet to fill the glass. Like he was cleaning the glass first and gave her the water used to wash the glass.

Why do I notice this stuff?

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

Lilly and Tom have lots of physical attraction and I think Lilly seems like a really good person, but they have values which are not in synch. Sonia and Nick seem to have zero physical attraction but like each other and have some values which are the same.

I continue to find the lack of physical contact to be troubling with Nick and Sonia. She always looks like she is waiting around for him to do something and then nothing. My favorite quote of the show was when the new expert lady (forgot her name) said: "Even if the couples all decide to divorce, it doesn't mean the show was not successful." Yes, dear it does. 

I didn't watch the show (two hours?! Nah, son) but came here to read the comments and see what happened. I think of the two couples, Nick and Sonia could make it. (I would have been out after Nick's outburst, but that's me.) You can teach someone to speak your love language. (Nick said gifts are his love language when he gave Sonia gifts in their honeymoon.) Nick's attraction to her could grow. He could become more demonstrative. He could learn to be in a relationship by being in one - that's how we all learn. If the fundamentals are there - they like the same things, want the same things, value the same things - that's more important than things burning white hot right away.

Tom and Lily have the attraction part down but have totally different visions for their lives that don't match up at all. And not only that, Tom seems to have disdain for the stuff Lily values. It's going to be much harder for Tom to stop pushing Lily to work less and care less about building wealth (and you absolutely could not get me not to care about money,and attempts to do so would break us up) than it is for Sonia to get Nick to hold her hand in public. (If it turns out that Nick just really isn't attracted to her at all, then that's dead in the water - but it might be that he's just not there yet. I also suspect he's uncomfortable being on camera.)

I mean, I wouldn't be with someone that I had to convince of my worth and attractiveness, but I think Sonia and Nick could work together on being what the other needs - she's already showed she's willing to work with the dog stuff.

[Meowwww]

Producers!!  STOP with the patched together sentences!!  It drives me absolutely crazy. To the point that I can't listen to what they are saying due to the horrible word and sentence patching-together thing you do!

/rant

[psychoticstate]

This has been burning in my brain since last night.  Why?  Why, show?  Why TWO HOURS?  Are you in cahoots with Dateline?  It's not necessary.  So much of it was filler.  We didn't need the recap of the relationships, especially since FYI marathoned the entire season yesterday.  Do the gift exchange if you must, final dinner and then decision day.

And damn you, MAFS, for the stupid speeches each person has to give.  A "I want to stay married" or "I want a divorce" is sufficient.  Afterward, they can say why or they can give us a TH but dragging this shit out and then putting a commercial break in between  . . well, it is MAFS.

I've liked Tom and Lily from day one but what worries me are their goals. I've always been told that opposites can attract, you can make relationships work even if you have little in common so long as your goal(s) is/are the same.  Did Tom tell us his goals?  Lily told us hers.  Even with his wanderlusty lifestyle, I think they can make it work so long as he respects her ambition and she respects his desire to surf/swim/take out the bus.  

Nick and Sonia . . . ummmm . . . I'm on the fence with them.  I saw glimmers of friendship/caring, like their honeymoon, the "second honeymoon" and the gift exchange.  I do think Nick has a dry sense of humor and I do think he genuinely appreciated Sonia's gift, which was cute and certainly tailored to him.  She put thought in it.  His friends are probably the best source of Nick 101.  He doesn't seem to open up easily, he's a slow, slow burner.  That doesn't excuse his terrible behavior the night of OpenUpGate. 

Previews certainly make it look as though Nick and Sonia are done.  Why else would he show up without his ring on?  Whatever happened to the segment shown way back at the beginning of the season with someone proposing?  Is that Tom during the reunion?  I actually want to see Derek and Heather during the reunion but it looks like she's not even in the same room with the others?  So who cares? 

ETA:  I did enjoy seeing Sonia and Nick and Lily and Tom meeting.  Finally!  MAFS really should do this with all the couples.

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

 

At the very least, I feel that Sonia and Nick have been themselves.  I also don't buy that the producers force them to do anything, or this show would have better stats.

Lily for me has always been a try-hard bordering on phony with a veil of desperation and Tom an indulgent brat.  Even the way she cocks her head to the side while Tom is speaking so that we can all tell that she's actively listening to his every word.  It also seems like Tom didn't have to work for a drop of her physical or emotional affection; in my experience that will create a void in appreciation and he'll want someone a step "above" her.  Not that he deserves it, but he'll think he does. 

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I called BS on a producer getting involved with and taking sides in their argument, and handicap his reactions by 150% because he was drinking and it was a terrible time to talk to him.   IMHO, biting when cornered does not a bad dog make.  And saying a mean thing about Sonia when he's cornered doesn't make Nick an abuser or emotional powderkeg. 

1 hour ago, SaucyMommy said:

I agree with this entirely. I mean how many of us have said awful things to our partners and been forgiven? I know I have! 

Sure it happens BUT not a yelled out I'm not attracted to you and never was and don't like you. Those are words that one wouldn't say unless they meant it IMO. They are not words you can just bounce back from the next day and all is ok again. I couldn't forgive such words said and move on from them. Those are words that are meant to hurt and do damage. Drunk or not. Which btw, he was drunk in many scenes and I wouldn't be surprised if he was drunk during the sex too. Its not the only thing he said to try to be mean either. There was other times he said things to be mean and obviously get a point across he wasn't interested.  

Producers obviously stepped in on that situation with the comments, while they shouldn't, it showed they do step in. I think it only ended up in the edit was because it would have looked odd him yelling back as he did and no one would have known who it was he was saying things to as he walked out the door. I also think there was more to what Sonia was saying that night that was edited out to make it seem she was just repeating for him to open up. I think they step in more than we think. I can't bring up another situation since it has nothing to do with this thread but they have done it before.

I do agree that Tom is an indulgent brat though. Not sure if she is desperate but you do have to question those so young on why they are doing this show. The head thing with Lily is something that does bug me. More so when she is doing her THs and has that look to her. I am not sure these 2 can make it work. I think they are just way to different on their wants and desires in life. I can't see him doing enough to make things work and that Lily would be the one expected to do so instead. That would lead to unhappiness for her though. Yet who knows, maybe he will realize he has a good thing going and over time make some changes on his end.

7 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

 My favorite quote of the show was when the new expert lady (forgot her name) said: "Even if the couples all decide to divorce, it doesn't mean the show was not successful." Yes, dear it does. 

LMAO They "experts" are just pathetic. 

[booboopbedoo]

Quote

I'm glad I DVR'd this show because there was so much filler and repetition.

I got it down to about 45 minutes this way and skipped the whole Derek and RBF blonde.

Nick's body language at the Brunch with Tom and Lily was horrible! (Lily fix your top!) I changed my opinion of him after that. I think he is a very insecure little boy who is going to have to go through some therapy.He hates being on camera.

[Lily247]

4 hours ago, Drogo said:

 

Lily for me has always been a try-hard bordering on phony with a veil of desperation and Tom an indulgent brat.  Even the way she cocks her head to the side while Tom is speaking so that we can all tell that she's actively listening to his every word.  It also seems like Tom didn't have to work for a drop of her physical or emotional affection; in my experience that will create a void in appreciation and he'll want someone a step "above" her.  Not that he deserves it, but he'll think he does. 

I agree. She never made him work for anything One could say that it is refreshing for people not to play games, and just give it all up and be open per se, but hell, they went all the way after a couple of days. I also doubt there will ever be a pregnancy scare, as I think Lily has every bit of her life planned out to a T and won't take any chances of messing that up. 

[Jellybeans]

Editing sucks, sucks, sucks.  

I do not see Tom and Lilly lasting long.  They are too different in terms of goals but I do not think there is anything wrong with their goals, but they feel incompatible to me.

I agree with Drogo's posts above.  I also think Nick and Sonia have the best chance of making it long-term.  I think both of them are uncomfortable on camera as well.

Plus I think Lilly and Tom were a big snobby with Sonia and Nick. I was turned off by their behavior for some reason.  

Was Lilly channeling Heather's boobs with her bra flashing?

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, Drogo said:

Sonia digs Nick. She always has. 

I can see him becoming a great husband, though not the preferred "type" of husband for most women.  

I know this is an UO but I agree with this.  There isn't one way of doing things; people stay with each other for different reasons; I don't believe anybody was "bullied" into doing anything.  Just because Nick might not be my ideal man, doesn't mean he's not Sonia's.  I might I would have asked for a divorce, but then again I'm not Sonia. 

I do see Sonia and Nick staying together while Tom and Lily won't.  Sure they have heat now but there are just too many differences between them.  I think Nick and Sonia are on the same page when it comes to living in a house, having children, working, etc.  Tom and Lily are too opposite in that respect; Tom's lifestyle isn't wrong and neither is Lily's, they just don't mesh IMO.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Neurochick

[Stillhoping]

Hey at least Nick finally asked Sonia something about herself...her wants...her needs...

"Which dog would you rather have in the bed...Dax or Lola?"

[jamblastx]

Exactly but according to the graphic, Nick's friend spelled it 'Ritchie' which is uncommon (Ritchie Valens is the only time I have seen it before) and the Pastor's last name is Roberson which again is a lot less common than, Robertson with a 't'

Edited October 26, 2016 by Drogo
Quote formatting.

[Lesia]

OMG I fell asleep twice, then at 10:15 I checked the programming guide and it said it was over at 11:00 so I said, that's it. I'm going to bed, and will read about this tomorrow on the forum.  My God, dragging it out, for what?? 

[psychoticstate]

33 minutes ago, Lesia said:

OMG I fell asleep twice, then at 10:15 I checked the programming guide and it said it was over at 11:00 so I said, that's it. I'm going to bed, and will read about this tomorrow on the forum.  My God, dragging it out, for what?? 

To make us wish Derek would share his stash?  

[pdlinda1]

3 hours ago, suzeecat said:

"Actions speak louder than words" is one of my rules to live by.  And with Nick and Sonia I just don't see it.  When Sonia said "I'm moving back in" (the night BEFORE???), Nick says "yay, great" and that would have been cause for some type of hug, embrace, SOMETHING.  Instead he goes to pour himself another drink.  They exchange gifts and when they're done opening them and reading the cards, another opportunity for a thank-you hug.  Instead they back away.  No matter what Nick said, his facial expression never changed.  I can't stand him and would bet money that they don't last another six months. 

I also found Sonia's gifts to Nick kind of off-putting....didn't sense much "romance" there...