S03.E06: Hated In The Nation

[zxy556575]

This one wasn't achingly depressing for a change, and at 89 minutes was more like a fully fleshed detective movie, except one that only focused on the plot instead of the characters' home lives and personal neuroses. I enjoyed it although I would have liked to have been reassured as to which of the two survived in the last 60 seconds.

[Arynm]

I loved this one. I could listen to the main characters accents all day long. Kelly Macdonald is a treasure, she is always fantastic whenever I see her. The actress who played Blue, Faye Marsey, I couldn't place, but she was in The White Queen and was the waif in Game of Thrones. I would also have liked some closure, but since this is Black Mirror, I'm not surprised I didn't get it.  I also liked that it was centered around bees, since I have been hearing so much about the loss of the bee population and if they go we go, we can't survive without them.

[Chaos Theory]

Terminator Bees Judgement day.

Question:  We have all hated on people on the internets but would you use a murder hashtag if you knew it worked?

Thought this one although overly long was well done and well acted.  It had the feel of a full length movie.  I thought the idea of crowd sourcing hit lists is an interesting one.  Who would you pick?  I mean we hate on people who do stupid and unfortunate things for a couple weeks then forget about them.  What if a hashtag came about that was lottery for you immediate agression over an article you read or a tv personality you hated?   I thought that was the most interesting aspect of the show.  Plus the idea that everyone thought it was a joke and didn't really care if it wasn't.  

[zxy556575]

I have certainly directed, from my couch, violent language at TV celebrities with regards to wanting to throat punch or kick them in the shins. Even in jest, I don't think I'd ever use a murder hashtag? I condemn others who appeal to/incite our basest instincts so hopefully wouldn't do it myself.

I have a hard time understanding the deranged motives of someone like the teacher taking time to solicit money from 80 others just to send a hate cake, but it was satisfying to see anonymous Internet commenters get their comeuppance. Killing them was a little much, though.

Edited October 23, 2016 by lordonia

[snowwhyte]

Lots of interesting things explored in this one. Not just online harassment but government surveillance and bee colony collapse. Maybe having to face consequences for their online behaviour would cause people to reconsider what they post. It would be better if we could do that without killing people though. It is always a conflict between our evolved self and our base self. We know these people don't really deserve to die but there is some part of us that feels satisfaction when awful people get killed.

So the bee populations could theoretically collapse. It's fairly well known that bee populations are not doing well and that if the bees go extinct we could all starve. Are there people out there working on an alternative like the automated bees?

[Kidlaw]

This one hit me much like White Bear and Shut Up and Dance. The revenge episodes of Black Mirror are always the most brutal to me and therefore are my favorite episodes. 

I was wondering why this guy was sacrificing people who were bullied on social media like his friend. His stated purpose didn't make sense until the reveal because even if people knew their threats on Twitter would come to fruition, I don't think they would care. It wasn't until I started asking why he left all these clues, around the same time as the police detectives, that it made sense it was all a plot to kill thousands of people at once to teach society a lesson. Hey, if the Black Mirror universes are connected, maybe this is why people in Nosedive expect you to be overly friendly and shun those who exhibit "anti-social" tendencies? lol

But, seriously this episde made me think of all those "DIAF" comments I've seen people leave on social media and blogs and newspaper sites, etc.  Well, I remember that being a thing in the first decade of the 2000's anyways. I'm not really on Twitter, but leaving comments that people die (or get raped/otherwise assualted) is something massive amounts of people do everyday on the internet.  I feel like this was a very timely episode. 

ETA: Blue left forensics because of Victoria Skillane case (Ian Rannoch was Vicktoria's boyfriend). 

Edited October 23, 2016 by Kidlaw

[Nordly Beaumont]

4 hours ago, Kidlaw said:

Blue left forensics because of Victoria Skillane case (Ian Rannoch was Vicktoria's boyfriend). 

Thank you, I'm terrible at picking up on things like that! White Bear is still my favorite.

This one was a bit long, but very suspenseful and satisfying. I kept thinking about the re-usable produce bags I have, a light enough weave to see through and breath through. I wonder if the ADI's were weaponized enough to get in anyway? Not that there would have been time to get people to bag their heads, but I was surprised they took the blonde woman out of her house without any head protection. 

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

We have all hated on people on the internets but would you use a murder hashtag if you knew it worked?

No. Pedophiles would be tempting, but (1) I don't think I could live with blood on my hands and (2) I could be wrong. The internet community is great about trying and convicting as if they were actually there, but often the facts aren't actually known. 

[Chaos Theory]

This made me think of  the Kardashian robbery.  Do you know how many tweets wished her raped and murdered?

I liked that most of the people that were picked weren't evil criminals who crimed but instead people who posted ill advised pics and personal attack articles.  These are things that fire up our anger but are ultimately unimportant and quickly forgotten.   

I mean really!  Putting a kill hashtag on someone for pretending to pee on a statue is the kind of thing that perplexes me.  It was an stupid prank not even close to being worthy of death.  

Edited October 23, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[snowwhyte]

She was pretty annoying though. When she was stood in front of an open window after being warned to close it by the police i was suddenly ok with her inevitable death.

[barcamaniac007]

This one was by far the best episode of the series to me. 15 million merits was still my best episode before watching this one but this episode completely redefined my thoughts. I have to admit that Netflix did a pretty good job with this season 3. To have an artificially controlled thousands of bees and use them as a killing machine is probably something that can't be defined by words. No wonder our future is bright. 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this one and it felt like a full-length movie.  It was like Hitchcock's The Birds, except with robotic bees that could be hijacked.  I continue to absolutely love the world-building in these stories.

I can't believe I didn't recognize Kelly MacDonald despite reading a day or two ago that she was in this.  She and Faye Marsay (she played The Waif on Game of Thrones) were absolutely fantastic and I wouldn't mind seeing a series with those two characters.  Plus, Benedict Wong!  Even though Marco Polo is still in limbo, I'm glad to see him still involved in a Netflix show.  He'll be acting along another Benedict in Doctor Strange in two weeks.

The Chancellor was very funny.  "**** him under the bus!"

Very, very happy with this season of Black Mirror.

barcmaniac007, 15 Million Merits was also my favorite episode.

Edited October 24, 2016 by benteen

[Negritude]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

The Chancellor was very funny.  "**** him under the bus

The Chancellor was the MVP lol. That was a scary one, from online feeding frenzies to highly intelligent but deeply disturbed people being able to turn technology against the masses to no more bees. What happens when there's no more bees?! 

I actually find myself defending some public figures online (and ending up being attacked) because I that hate mob mentality nonsense, even when it's  directed at people I disagree with. I'm guessing the writer(s) of this episode share my sentiments. 

I wonder why Detective a girl has no name had to fake her own death to catch that maniac? 

[snowwhyte]

Well, it helps to get away with a revenge murder if everyone thinks you're dead. Assuming she was planning to kill him. 

[NorthstarATL]

On 10/23/2016 at 1:48 AM, Nordly Beaumont said:

I wonder if the ADI's were weaponized enough to get in anyway? Not that there would have been time to get people to bag their heads, but I was surprised they took the blonde woman out of her house without any head protection. 

I kept thinking that they would all at least wear headphones, since initially the bees got in through the ear canal. 

Great episode, though.

10 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

Well, it helps to get away with a revenge murder if everyone thinks you're dead. Assuming she was planning to kill him. 

the ending did leave things open-ended. Initially, when I figured there was a twist, I half-expected Blue to meet up with him at that location, and the reveal to be that they had been working together! She did find the hard drive, after all, and made it possible for Wong's character to set off the bees. but I was happier that it appears she's as she appeared to be. He seemed pretty savvy, and quite capable of keeping track of anyone who was "officially" tracking him. If he were convinced she was dead, as the world was, he wouldn't see her coming.

[snowwhyte]

i thought she might be in on it too since she was pretty crucial in following his clues. It was all a rather convoluted plan though. It is probably worth a rewatch.

[panthergirl13]

WOW. I loved this one and thought it was a great ending to a fantastic season.

Re head protection, I wondered why they didn't just cover their FACES if facial recognition was the key?? 

[Charlesman]

Yeah, if I knew the bees were after me, I'd just be wearing a motorcycle helmet everywhere

[Bcharmer]

The ending gave me "Silence of the Lambs" vibes.   "I do wish we could chat longer, but I'm having an old friend for dinner." - as we watch Hannibal Lechter follow his prey through the crowded streets. End credits.

[Jael]

Best of the season for me, just ahead of Nosedive. I immediately thought nanobots after the journalist's husband's testimony and that wasn't far off, but they kept it twisty and clever enough to keep me guessing. Kelly Macdonald is the champion of the world, damn.

[Primetimer]

But only because it’s also the least Black Mirror-ish episode yet.

View the full article

[sacrebleu]

I thought this episode was the perfect companion piece for Nosedive-- because I could see the societal reaction to a plot like this leading to the sort of course correcting social experiment run amuck that was Nosedive. 

Everyone starts rating each other for nice behavior and suddenly everyone feels the need to be pathologically nice at the expense of authentic living.

[marinw]

The music in this episode is outstanding.

[PatternRec]

Ed Norton had better look out for bees...

[Miles]

Ofcourse the government had to weaken security in an extremely dangerous system in order to spy on people. What could go wrong?! Turns out the murder of over 300000 people is what can go wrong.

On 23.10.2016 at 1:57 AM, snowwhyte said:

So the bee populations could theoretically collapse. It's fairly well known that bee populations are not doing well and that if the bees go extinct we could all starve. Are there people out there working on an alternative like the automated bees?

If by "fairly well know" you mean an urban legend, then yes, it's fairly well known. If there weren't bees other insects would take over the pollination, as they could multiply a lot more, given that a big competitor for food would be gone. Bees aren't actually that good at polinating anyway. bumblebees do most of the work and get non of the credit.

We also know by now what caused those collonies to collapse. Surprise, surprise, it was insecticides that were supposed to be harmless to bees.

On 24.10.2016 at 4:58 AM, Negritude said:

I wonder why Detective a girl has no name had to fake her own death to catch that maniac? 

I guess so the guy wouldn't see her coming. He was an expert hacker who had infiltrated the GCHQ (britians NSA, for anybody who doesn't know). The only way for them to be sure he wouldn't monitor them, she had to go completely of the grid. But if she had just vanished, that would have been suspicious, too. Hence the faking of the death.

On 24.10.2016 at 7:30 PM, NorthstarATL said:

the ending did leave things open-ended. Initially, when I figured there was a twist, I half-expected Blue to meet up with him at that location, and the reveal to be that they had been working together! She did find the hard drive, after all, and made it possible for Wong's character to set off the bees.

Yeah, thought the same. This is Black Mirror afterall. Was glad that I was wrong and this wasn't that dark of an ending.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Miles

[Slovenly Muse]

OK, I'm going to say it. I really didn't like this one. I agree with the article completely. Sure, it was a top-notch police procedural, but it provided basically none of what I come to Black Mirror to get.

I think the main problem was that it was a bit unfocused. I wonder if it would have worked better as two separate episodes, since it seemed to have two stories to tell. First, Nosedive took on the dark underbelly of the "benefits" of gaining and maintaining popularity on social media. An episode dedicated to cyberbullying and the ways in which the anonymity of the internet can facilitate our dark, violent desires, could have been really great (actually, I think White Christmas did a pretty good job exploring that subject already, just with a broader lens of desensitization rather than the narrow focus on social media). But this one seemed to want to explore that topic, and got all muddied up with its second idea.

Stories like this one have been coming out for years now regarding Harvard's new RoboBee, which has been designed to help pick up the slack of the dwindling bee poplulation, or replace them if necessary. It's been getting criticism because of the involvment of the military, who have provided funding to the project and might be wanting to covertly employ the RoboBee as an instrument of warfare or espionage. (Alongside that, it must be acknowledged that the amount of funding going to the RoboBee development COULD have instead been going towards research that could help sustain the real bee population, and focusing so many resources on the RoboBee implies that we as a society are giving up on the natural, biological honeybee, which is very disturbing on its own.) This is a real thing that is happening in the world right now. An episode that focused tightly on that idea, that natural components of our ecosystem could be replaced with technological counterparts which could then be used against us, exploring the idea that the military, the government, could soon be in charge of the insects around us, could control every aspect of our environment ("for our protection," naturally), and what that might mean for both our environment AND our national and personal security. That would have been a FASCINATING episode. But with these two ideas half-assedly blended together to provide context for what was essentially a long police procedural, the final message was weaksauce.

I mean, at least the episode could have had an ending that packed a punch. I wondered if the massive scale of the genocide that occurred would prompt such an enthusiastic manhunt for the guy responsible that the government would have turned to (and society would have permitted) even darker, more invasive technologies with even grander potential for abuse and calamity as a fiendishly ironic knee-jerk reaction to this enormous violation of security (the way 9/11 gave us Gitmo and full-body scanners). But instead everyone just... felt really bummed. Alternatively, I wondered if the inevitable kicker ending would be that the world faced an ecological disaster because the bees had been compromised. And I think it would have been really interesting to explore the consequences of the military co-opting a vital part of the ecosystem for security application, and what would happen if an enemy combatant hacked the military's spy/combat technology and found themselves holding the fate of the entire global ecology in their hands. But this episode just never drove its point home.  In fact, I didn't really get what the point of it all WAS. And I certainly don't know why it took 90 minutes to do so little.

In the immortal words of the great Ron Swanson: "Don't half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."

Edited November 3, 2016 by Slovenly Muse

[millennium]

It started to fall apart when they mentioned the primary suspect was close to someone who had been a victim of internet hatred -- why would someone who personally witnessed a public shaming by internet go on a crusade to perpetuate and glorify that kind of behavior?   It made no sense.   Sure, we found out later, but it was one leap too many.

This was a long episode of Black Mirror, but the one I'm watching now goes even longer.   It's called "Election 2016."

[attica]

I'm still cringing over the 'got him' text, sent before she actually had got him, in fact. I mean she found him, but the text was a giant Counting of Chickens Before They Hatch that freaks me out.

The Google tells me that the haunting song over the final few minutes is "Fall into Me" by a Turkish-German singer-songwriter named Alev Lenz. I think her voices is Dolores O'Riordan- adjacent. (of the Cranberries).

[knaankos]

One thing that I found annoying about this episode is that they never explored any possibilities to stop the bees. Didn't they go by facial recognition? How about try wrapping your head in towels or wearing a mask long before the bees actually see you? And as far as the prime minister why not put him in a submarine and send it to the bottom of the ocean, surely the bees could not go through the ocean. 

I think it's safe to say, no muslim women died in the bee release 

[Amarsir]

In addition to the compliments on the acting, I want to add how nice it was that so many of the roles were for female characters. Another writer/director could have easily made the hardened cop, the tech-savvy rookie, the shock-seeking first victim, the prankster third victim - they all could have been men and probably fit the cliches better. 

It probably doesn't speak well of me that I even noticed. But they were not token and not forced - just interesting characters in the hands of skilled actresses.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Amarsir

[Dobian]

I thought this was a strong finish to a great season.  Kelly Macdonald was terrific.  I liked the dual themes of cyber bullying and the military threatening the privacy and safety of civilians by exploiting technology meant for something else.  I certainly won't ever feel comfortable in a world with robot bees buzzing around, lol.  I do think Blue took that guy out in the end.  I didn't think the black screen was ambiguous, you just really didn't need to see the confrontation.  She caught him, beat him at his own game, that was the point.

[SWLinPHX]

On 10/24/2016 at 4:49 PM, Charlesman said:

Yeah, if I knew the bees were after me, I'd just be wearing a motorcycle helmet everywhere

A helmet doesn't protect your nose and mouth where they entered to kill as well.

[Anela]

Damn. I remember having this playing in the background, but I'm just watching it properly now. 

I wouldn't use a hashtag like that, at all. Especially not on stupid kids, doing stupid things. 

[Rockstar99435]

The ending with all the bags is just brutal. But not half as brutal as 3 days later when it dawns on you how many of those bags would have been kids. 

[Lady Calypso]

I've always had my issues with the mob mentality on social media, especially in the last couple of years. Most of the time, there are people who have done some very bad things and deserved to be called out, but people often take it too far online because they can. And also, there are the ones who make one mistake and they also get jumped on as much as the really bad ones, and it just makes me feel a bit sad. Where do you draw the line with punishing these people before you become just as bad yourself? 

This episode certainly addressed those concerns of mine, and much more. God, I got a chill at the end when they realized their plan to deactivate the ADIs failed and that music when the ADIs when to get their real targets was chilling. And then seeing those bodies and knowing 380,000+ of them died? Most of them were likely kids and teenagers who didn't know any better, which is terrifying.

They did psych me out with Karin going into the hearing at the beginning; I thought it was because she was in trouble. But it turns out, they just needed her statement about what had happened, and that she had done nothing wrong. I did like Blue, and I like that she faked her death to find Scholes.

Overall, I love the most thought provoking episodes and not the ones that confuse the hell out of me because they made it too vague. This episode was really good in terms of being thought provoking. It's definitely one of my favourites now. 

[Cranberry]

On 4/10/2017 at 2:52 PM, Dobian said:

I do think Blue took that guy out in the end.  I didn't think the black screen was ambiguous, you just really didn't need to see the confrontation.  She caught him, beat him at his own game, that was the point.

I think so, too. I like to imagine she held onto that one bee she'd paired with and used it against him. I don't know if that's even plausible, but that would be real poetic justice -- for him to realize what was happening as the bee bored in through his ear.

[Hanahope]

I shudder to think what this could have been like in America at any given moment, on both sides of the hashtag.  Even that the government was using the ADIs to spy is terrifying, but could so see it happening under the Patriot Act.

Abd it makes me glad I ignore Twitter 95% of the time 

[markx]

Regarding the comments on people's online behaviour - remember that one of those targetted was a columnist spreading vile hate against an innocent (with a platform that gave them far more readers than the typical Twitter poster). Not that I'd excuse sending a hate cake, but it does give us some insight into their reasoning. E.g., "Maybe having to face consequences for their online behaviour would cause people to reconsider what they post. It would be better if we could do that without killing people though." - wouldn't this be the kind of thing that those people would be saying in turn of the columnist?

"I have a hard time understanding the deranged motives of someone like the teacher taking time to solicit money from 80 others just to send a hate cake, but it was satisfying to see anonymous Internet commenters get their comeuppance. Killing them was a little much, though."

On the one hand, I agree about sending hate cakes - on the other hand, maybe they were people who, like you, wanted to see an Internet/media commenter get her comeuppance.

(I don't think they were anonymous? From the police to the bees, their details seemed to be known.)

The episode seemed a criticism of mob mentality on social media, though I'd add that when someone becomes most-hated-person-of-the-week, it'll still usually start from over-the-top/disproportionate/biased coverage from the mainstream media, that then gets a comment of hate from the large number of readers. This happened in the past, the difference now is that those targetted have more chance to read what people think about them.
 

[absnow54]

I thought this was a thought provoking episode, but a lot of the tech bugged me. Like tracking everyone through their phone's IMEI, when we saw people posting through their laptops, which would be tracked through their IPs. The simple solution would be to shut off your phone, go some place you've never gone before, and put on a hood until the whole thing blew over. And I couldn't believe they just started ripping files off that hard drive and implemented it across the entire system without any testing. 

[nara]

Great episode. One of the few where I didn’t feel the length.

 

The cake reminded me of The Help and the terrible awful chocolate cake—-don’t eat anything sent by someone who hates you. Luckily that wasn’t the plot here.

 

@Chaos Theory, I didn’t know about the Twitter reaction to Kim Kardashian’s robbery. I do remember thinking it was very fortunate that she hadn’t been raped, but I didn’t realize people were actually wishing it on her. Disgusting.

I honestly don’t know what I would do if given the power to smite people I don’t like, but I hope I’d do the right, humane thing. I immediately thought of the people who post trophy hunting pictures and get a violent backlash...

[tallykat]

I'm a beekeeper and quite honestly, this episode freaked me out. But of course, my girls are organic and aren't controlled by government forces. 

So I have to say a little bit about the artificial bee aspect of the episode. Yes, they already have artificial pollinators. Whether we will need them as replacements for the honeybee waits to be seen. Honeybees are not the only pollinators, but they do perform specific pollination tasks. As noted, bumblebees and other pollinators (including wasps) exist, but bumblebees are too large (as are honeybees in some cases) to pollinate all flowers. Figs rely on wasps for pollination. So losing a pollinator would not have the others rushing in to fill the gap. There are a lot of stressors for all pollinators, but there is not imminent collapse of the honeybee population. In the US, we actually have more colonies that we did when Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) was defined. That's not to say that we are totally okay. There are factors that the bees face: monoculture, mites, disease, pesticides--that we need to deal with. A dystopic near-future without honeybees? It's a definite possibility. The government dual-purposing the artificial pollinators? Hardly a doubt. 

I really like the way this episode took a common fear (bees/insects), added a bit of technology and created a WTH moment. I knew the male detective was going to be in trouble when he sent that message. I thought it might have been a plan to crank out enough hashtags for the bad guy that the bees would go for him at the end of the day. Turn the weapon on its creator. But he just wanted to get in on the fun.

The scene with the Chancellor was the best. Again, why wasn't someone suggesting flooding social media with a fake person for the hashtag. Or Winston Churchill. That's what bots are for!

Did the committee really believe that Blue killed herself? No body? Can you really walk into the sea and drown yourself? I was highly suspicious. I thought she was in on it. I thought the guy at the bee control center was in on it. I thought his assistant (?-the older woman with the bangs) was in on it. I'm really surprised the government agent was still alive. Man, you were the one that hit "Send"!

I don't watch procedurals, so it may be why I didn't find it disappointing as a Black Mirror episode. As always, there are a slew of unanswered questions, including how the nation dealt with the physical and emotional aftermath of 387k deaths in one day.

I wouldn't mind a universe where we followed Thumper's father's admonition: "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all." [sic]

[Meedis]

On 10/23/2016 at 9:58 PM, Negritude said:

I wonder why Detective a girl has no name had to fake her own death to catch that maniac? 

Every time I looked at her I was thinking she and Bradley Cooper could totally be brother and sister.

[methodwriter85]

Solid end to the season. It was slow at first but then I really got into it. I could definitely see this being expanded into a full-length, full-budget movie. (Which it basically was.)

[ottoDbusdriver]

Some interesting tidbits discovered in the news crawl on the TV in the Spanish bar

-- "Skillane Appeal thrown out of court"
As @Kidlaw mentioned, that's a call back to White Bear

-- "Shou Saito announces immersive new gaming system"
Which is a callback to Playtest.

-- "Former Chancellor Tom P .."
I take it that Chancellor Tom Pickering was probably forced to resign once it got out that he seemed to have no issue with putting himself before country, or intentionally trying to get another politician killed in his place.
 

[Kel Varnsen]

That episode was really good probably one of my favourite Black Mirror eps. The scene in the bathroom with the girl dying was like a horror movie.

On 1/17/2018 at 11:27 AM, tallykat said:

Again, why wasn't someone suggesting flooding social media with a fake person for the hashtag. Or Winston Churchill. That's what bots are for!

I was wondering about using bot accounts to overload the system too. You could even use non-famous people who died very recently.

Also I was surprised that when the Chancellor was having his meeting, no one suggested this might be the work of an enemy nation. I mean sure crazy ex-employee having access to all those fake bees/killing machines, but how much worse would it be if Russia had control of them?

Also why was the guy the Chancellor not the Prime Minister?

[hoodooznoodooz]

They should have realized from the Tusk MRI that they might have been able to thwart the bees with many powerful magnets.