S01.E04: Party At Castle Varlar

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

The trio land in Nazi Germany and track evildoer Flynn as World War II rages around them. They also meet the man behind a popular figure of literature and they must endure a very uncomfortable party.

[legaleagle53]

Let's see how they handle the language barrier if they have to interact with any of the locals.  Does any of them speak German?

[dubbel zout]

That's probably why Ian Fleming is around: to act as interpreter (as well as hit on Lucy).

[legaleagle53]

42 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's probably why Ian Fleming is around: to act as interpreter (as well as hit on Lucy).

And since he's being played by Sean McGuire, I would so hit that if I were Lucy.

[officetemp]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Let's see how they handle the language barrier if they have to interact with any of the locals.  Does any of them speak German?

No problem!  All they have to do is dress up in Nazi SS uniforms and speak English with fake German accents.  Hey, it worked on Hogan's Heroes!

[smiley13]

I was just going to say, the Germans spoke English.  Haven't you seen Hogan's Heroes?

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

I was just going to say, the Germans spoke English.  Haven't you seen Hogan's Heroes?

Not all of them did.  In fact, the majority of them didn't.  English didn't become a compulsory subject in European schools until long after WWII, and even then, people only retained it for about as long as most people in the US retain their one or two years of high-school Spanish, French, or German after high school.

[smiley13]

Just now, legaleagle53 said:

Not all of them did.  In fact, the majority of them didn't.  English didn't become a compulsory subject in European schools until long after WWII, and even then, people only retained it for about as long as most people in the US retain their one or two years of high-school Spanish, French, or German after high school.

But they did on Hogan's Heroes.......

[Netfoot]

11 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

But they did on Hogan's Heroes.......

Perhaps the team speaks German?   "Good moaning!"

[Raja]

"The team" what is Rufus going to do stay in the lifeboat? Play a turncoat Tuskegee Airman POW making propaganda broadcast for the Nazis?

[Trooper York]

We haven't seen the episode but a possible explanation around the language difficulty is that they could have been presented as Americans serving with the Waffen SS. There were a couple who served with the SS-Standarte Kurt Eggers. There were several "foreign legion" type contingents in the German Army believe it or not and that might be how they can explain it away. Or not. I am curious to see what they do.

[Emily Thrace]

FFS Ian Fleming was never active SOE. He actually washed out of Camp X. He just was a Royal Navy intelligence so he got to read their case files. He sure as fuck was never anywhere near Berlin. I wish this show would decide if it wants to take itself seriously or not. I watch Scorpion so I can deal with the show playing fast an loose with the facts but they seem so earnest about "saving history" its hard to know when were supposed to give a fuck and when we're supposed to roll our eyes.

If they wanted to do Nazi's why not have them run into Josephine Baker like X Company did? It also would explained Rufus's presence. He could be a Jazz player. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Emily Thrace
I remebered Nightingales real name.

[wanderingstar]

"It was in Skyfall." ha!

Good episode, although I do want them to tell us more about Rittenhouse sooner rather than later. All the ominous breadcrumbs are becoming a bit tiresome.

[MisterGlass]

I was happy they revealed the giant room of costumes.  I was waiting for some explanation of the wardrobe.

[KaveDweller]

Well if James Bond can't kill Flynn, Wyatt definitely has no shot at it. I think when the writers are plotting out an episode the first thing they do is come up with an era to jump to and then the real life figure to insert to prevent them from really going after Flynn. It is going to get old if they don't come up with better reasons for it.

I think I like the premise of these past two episodes, where they jump to a non-specific date and have to figure out what Flynn is doing more than when they go back to a super-important event. I get why they did that in the first two episodes to draw people in though.  But in terms of Flynn's plan, they are really bad at predicting what he is trying to do. They seem to keep predicting the worst (like giving Germany the A-bomb) when he is playing a smaller game.

Would MI6 agents use their real name in the field?

I admit, I laughed at Flemming telling Wyatt and Lucy they couldn't stand out more if they tried, and then have to correct himself at the sight of Rufus.

I think I may have missed why Flynn getting a 300-year-long battery is such a big deal. Does not having to power up mean they won't be able to track him? Obviously not, since then they're be no show. Does Flynn just really want a lower electric bill or something?

I am also calling it right now.....the person who saved Lucy when she almost drowned in college was either Flynn or someone else using a time machine.

Edited October 25, 2016 by KaveDweller

[nilyank]

That was a good trip in the past for the team, especially the boys. They got to meet Ian Fleming, be the inspiration for a brand-new to them James Bond story, get to see the Bond film, and actually get to see young Sean Connery as their James Bond in their story.

[ketose]

3 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I admit, I laughed at Flemming telling Wyatt and Lucy they couldn't stand out more if they tried, and then have to correct himself at the sight of Rufus.

I think I may have missed why Flynn getting a 300-year-long battery is such a big deal. Does not having to power up mean they won't be able to track him? Obviously not, since then they're be no show. Does Flynn just really want a lower electric bill or something?

I am also calling it right now.....the person who saved Lucy when she almost drowned in college was either Flynn or someone else using a time machine.

Getting the battery is a big deal because the women in the bunker (forgot her name) was able to track down the machine based on the power consumption. Now, they're back to a very large radius. I still wonder about the battery. I thought nukes were used to heat up water, not radiate directly into a power system.

Kind of funny there was a James Bond movie based on their adventures. If the new movie came out in 1964, does that mean Goldfinger was never made? Wouldn't Skyfall have changes as well, or would they just reuse the whole priest hole thing?

So the old White dude tells Rufus to keep recording or he kills his family. Seems like Rittenhouse is the bad guy. Maybe Rufus should start helping Flynn succeed. Apparently, no one will ever know, except the team.

[KaveDweller]

3 minutes ago, ketose said:

Getting the battery is a big deal because the women in the bunker (forgot her name) was able to track down the machine based on the power consumption. Now, they're back to a very large radius. I still wonder about the battery. I thought nukes were used to heat up water, not radiate directly into a power system.

Kind of funny there was a James Bond movie based on their adventures. If the new movie came out in 1964, does that mean Goldfinger was never made? Wouldn't Skyfall have changes as well, or would they just reuse the whole priest hole thing?

So the old White dude tells Rufus to keep recording or he kills his family. Seems like Rittenhouse is the bad guy. Maybe Rufus should start helping Flynn succeed. Apparently, no one will ever know, except the team.

Thanks, I forgot that part in the beginning. So they'll still be able to track where (when) they go in the past, just not where he's keeping the machine in the present. But I wonder if they could track radiation if they figure out what they did.

You'd think people would have made jokes about a team having the same names as the characters of the bond movie before. I know they couldn't have because it hadn't happened yet, but the people back at home base should have acted like they remember making the jokes. 

[Driad]

Tom Lehrer's song about Wernher von Braun (circa 1965):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JmDNpjKYc

[henripootel]

Actually kinda surprised how much I enjoyed that.  They're being a bit nonsensical but consistent (there's still no reason to hurry up when you know Luka is in 1944, anything he did he did years ago, but fine), and they're having a good bit of fun with time travel.  Also not going A-Team either - how many guys died tonight?  Nazis, sure, but they're not shy about killing some folks.  And they actually got the rocket explosion kinda right - it didn't propel the guys who found it away hollywood-style, it just engulfed and killed them.  Also really like that, yet again, the locals had no problem spotting these guys as fakes.  These guys shouldn't be able to just blend right in, so nice to see them having some fun with this.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

I still wonder about the battery. I thought nukes were used to heat up water, not radiate directly into a power system.

Nuclear batteries are a real thing.  They are very expensive, but they deliver power for a very long time.  Used in situations where long life is a requirement, and service/replacement is out of the question.  Like orbital satellites.  

A real nuclear battery probably isn't made with a critical mass of plutonium , tho...

[LittleIggy]

Anytime Nazis are killed, I love it! ;-)

[methodwriter85]

I did wonder if ll the Nazis Wyatt killed in this affected the timeline, but then I fanwanked that they probably would have died during the fall of the Third Reich anyway.

Did Sean Maquire do something to his face? It just looked slightly off.

I did get a kick out of how their messing with the timeline made a "new" Bond movie.

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Did Sean Maquire do something to his face? It just looked slightly off.

You're probably used to the scruff he had when he played Robin Hood on Once Upon a Time.  He shaved it off to play Ian Fleming here, and it makes his face look a little thinner and more angular than it was on Once.

[bros402]

3 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I was happy they revealed the giant room of costumes.  I was waiting for some explanation of the wardrobe.

Me too. The second they revealed it I had a gigantic smile on my face like "Yessssssssss."

Also, I like the little things about this episode - Lucy wanting a cover story established, for one. The costume room, of course (Do you think they have seamstresses and hair dressers and people like that?)., also, the Bond movie - do you think they had Rufus played by a black actor in the movie?

[paulvdb]

I think they did a decent job with the German speaking. Not sure about some of the dialogue, but to me the accents at least didn't sound noticeably English/American except Wyatt and Fleming who were supposed to not sound like native speakers.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Driad said:

Tom Lehrer's song about Wernher von Braun (circa 1965):

You beat me to it, Driad.  I liked the way they even tipped their hat to Lehrer with von Braun's dialogue.  I appreciated even more the emphasis on his famously flexible loyalties, which have been pretty much glossed over in histories of the US space program.  He was not a hero. 

On the episode arcs, I really hope they step it up a notch or two, because the lighthearted look at their weekly entry into time travel and the continual "fish out of water" sight gags are wearing thin already.

[AnnaMayWong]

After being continuously ordered about in previous episodes by Lucy PRESTON and Wyatt LOGAN, ol' Rufus doesn't even get the dignity of his last name mentioned during The Trio's introduction to Ian Fleming.

[JackONeill]

Random thoughts: Lucy is starting to grow on me. Though it seemed a bit superficial, I liked how she discussed her anxiety with Wyatt. Also, I like how she stood up to the woman (name?) at the beginning about getting her sister back. I also think she has the kind of look that would allow her to "fit in" just about anywhere. But I found it odd that being the crack historian she is, she didn't know German. Now, maybe she knows other languages, so okay. Also, she looked downright unglamorous wearing that Nazi uniform. Then again, I guess no soldier is supposed to look as if they stepped out of the pages of vogue.

I remain ambivalent about Wyatt. It was interesting he was involved in the raid at the beginning, so he's NOT just the time-hopping muscle. Also, he's starting to exhibit some humor, and he's starting to build loyalty with the other team members. But, as many of us have said, he's almost doomed to failure because if he ever kills what's-his-name the show is over. The writers need to find a way around that or the frustration will be too much to bear.

[Raja]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

, also, the Bond movie - do you think they had Rufus played by a black actor in the movie?

It is possible, while Bernie Casey played CIA Agent Felix Leiter in 1983 assuming a real black character was written into the book for a 60s movie maybe. It was a British and not an American production with a different level of race relations baggage the production would have dealt with.  By 1966 Mission Impossible on American TV had Barney Collier going on  international missions and the Bond series was an early adapter of other race sex partners for James Bond

edit; How could I forget I Spy in 1965 with Bill Cosby also being an international spy? Probably MI always being in syndication when I was a kid while I Spy wasn't

Edited October 25, 2016 by Raja
additional

[maraleia]

I would think Lucy knows Spanish because the show is set in California but that's it. Also, I tweeted at the writers and asked them why Rufus' last name wasn't mentioned in the dialogue. I'll let you know if I hear back from them and if so what they said.

[green]

This forum ate my homework.  Again.  I keep losing posts here this last week.

In a nutshell, James Bond stuff bores me so it wasn't my favorite episode. 

Also historians aren't expected to be linguists.  That is a whole different field.  Some historians couldn't learn a second language even if they tried for years.  They just don't have the ear for it.  Or, regards reading and writing it, grammar and verb tenses drive them mad.  That is why when historians do research they are allotted a research team and one of the team members may well be a linguist conversant in the language needed for said research.  (Some can and if they dedicate themselves to one era only -- say ancient Greece -- they may well be able to read ancient Greek well but they are the exception to the rule I'd say).

The one scene I really liked was von Braun telling Rufus like it is (wake up call time, Rufus) with the majority of scientists and engineers throughout history.  It is all about the research and invention and construction and development of their projects.  Not about their implications.  All about sending the rocket up like he said.  Who cares where it comes down.  Even Robert Oppenheimer didn't develop a conscience about helping to build the atomic bomb until after he did just that.

Then there is the main point about this episode:  Lose the freaking stubble, soldier boy!  No German civilian in Nazi Germany would walk around with three day old stubble on his face.  All I noticed or thought about for 90% of this episode is that stupid, idiotic stubble!!  (Unfortunately he might get a pass with it next week alas).

Edited October 25, 2016 by green

[Primetimer]

Which isn't easy to do when hanging out with Nazis.

View the full article

[dubbel zout]

I felt like this episode dealt with some of the complaints we've had about the show in general: where they get the clothes, adding a bit more humor, speaking a language other than English, etc. 

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I am also calling it right now.....the person who saved Lucy when she almost drowned in college was either Flynn or someone else using a time machine.

It's TV 101 for it to be Flynn, and this show is unlikely to swerve there.

11 hours ago, Driad said:

Tom Lehrer's song about Wernher von Braun

Ha! I started singing it was soon as he said he didn't care where they came down: "'That's not my department,' says Wernher von Braun." (My parents had That Was the Year That Was, and my brothers and I played it over and over and sang along, even though we were too young to really understand what Lehrer was satirizing.)

Edited October 25, 2016 by dubbel zout
album title—d'oh!

[Shanna Marie]

I liked this episode a lot. Yeah, there are factual things to nitpick, but it was fun. It's reminding me of early Warehouse 13 in the overall vibe. I like that they gave Wyatt some skill other than shooting things and getting into fist fights, and we saw that he is actually quite capable of shooting things (just not the main thing he's supposed to shoot). And it wasn't just the super historian who knew something about the time, place, and situation. The guys also had relevant knowledge due to personal interests (and a lot of Bond movies). The team is starting to gel pretty well. I didn't get so much a shipping vibe between Lucy and Wyatt as a kind of sibling thing. In particular, when the guys were watching her with Ian Fleming through the binoculars, it really sounded like brothers spying on their sister.

In general, though, it seems more like something SyFy would have shown during the summer a few years ago (during the era of Warehouse 13 and Eureka) rather than a main season major network show.

[sjohnson]

Re Lucy/Wyatt, since Wyatt is not yet a merry widower, that really does mean, what with it being a time travel show, his wife is an obstacle to a 'ship she wouldn't be in a regular adventure show. Functionally Lucy would be chasing after a man in mourning. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by sjohnson

[Ariah]

I think they're starting to get their stride - it sort of reminds me of the first season of Agents of SHIELD, when I found the characters boring and bland, up till a certain twist. I don't find these characters boring, but I'm waiting for a twist, for something to uproot the cadence. Lucy needs to start working against Rittenhouse eventually. Maybe Flynn dies in mid-season finale and Lucy goes on to continue his work?

I am weak when it comes to tv romance, I'm already looking for signs between Lucy/Wyatt. I believe the green-eyed monsterism he had this episode was rather subconscious on his part. But Rufus was teasing him.

It's weird to notice a lot of humour in an episode with the Nazis, but - there it was. The funniest episode to me till now. Loved the rapport the team had and Wyatt's fanboying over Flemming. 

[iMonrey]

I recognized the Jesus fish in the stained glass window and I'm not even an historian. And even though Lucy eventually figured it out and what it meant, how did she know how to open the secret door that led to the secret passageway? Was that part of her studies in German history too? Please.

OK, I got a chuckle out of Wyatt name checking "Never Say Never Again," and Lucy going "Really?" But that's about it.

It seems like the show is content to settle into being a comfortable, formulaic action/adventure show without aspiring to much more. I guess it's all mindless fun but the show would probably be so much smarter if it were airing on TNT or FX, or even on SyFy. And once again, Wyatt sucks at his job. Twice in this episode.

[dubbel zout]

I'd like to see Lucy buckle herself into her seat for once. I know it's sort of a flirty thing between her and Wyatt, but it infantilizes her in a way I find gross.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I recognized the Jesus fish in the stained glass window and I'm not even an historian. And even though Lucy eventually figured it out and what it meant, how did she know how to open the secret door that led to the secret passageway? Was that part of her studies in German history too? Please....

Lucy explained that in 1500 Catholicism was illegal there, and so tunnels were made to sneak priests in and out.

[Bort]

I could not stop laughing at the comment Rufus made about how James Bond probably sleeps with Lucy in the "new" movie. Because I had been thinking the same thing. 

[Writing Wrongs]

This show would be good on TNT paired with The Librarians.

[withanaich]

I'd like to see Lucy buckle herself into her seat for once. I know it's sort of a flirty thing between her and Wyatt, but it infantilizes her in a way I find gross.

It is pretty stupid. I'm guessing it's supposed to be some kind of shorthand for "building a relationship" or "natural chemistry" so when they inevitably try to hook these two up, it doesn't seem as jarring. Not buying it.

[fireice13]

I really do enjoy this show. It's fun entertainment and as someone with a history degree I enjoy the historical settings. I have no problem hand-waving the inaccuracies. 

I was thinking the nuke battery would allow the ship to never have to come back to present day. I figured that's why they always came back was to re-power. If they don't need to do that then they can just jump from time period to time period which I would guess makes it harder for the bunker team to track them down.

I feel bad for Rufus and it seems like Connor Mason got in over his head with these Rittenhouse people. He seemed sort of desperate and maybe he's hoping the info from Rufus will help him get out of whatever he got into. I do think they need to reveal the twist and maybe just the team could find out so that then they have to try and help Flynn without letting the homeland security woman or Mason know.

[blackwing]

I like the trio, they seem very comfortable with each other.  There were a lot of chuckles in this episode.  I laughed when Wyatt added "Again" with a big smile when Fleming said "never say never".  But my biggest laugh was when Fleming reprimanded Wyatt and Lucy with "you Americans couldn't stick out any more if you tried".  Then he sees Rufus and says "I stand corrected".  They need more lighthearted banter like this on the show.  

I didn't care too much for the time period, it devolved the episode into "just another spy show".  But at least we had Ian Fleming!

[legaleagle53]

30 minutes ago, fireice13 said:

I was thinking the nuke battery would allow the ship to never have to come back to present day. I figured that's why they always came back was to re-power. If they don't need to do that then they can just jump from time period to time period which I would guess makes it harder for the bunker team to track them down.

Not necessarily.  The team's timeship is tethered to the mothership (Flynn's ship) in such a way that they can always track him through time and space whether he makes a pitstop in the present or not.  What the battery does now is eliminate the need for Flynn to plug into the power grid, which is what previously enabled the team to locate his headquarters in the present.

8 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I like the trio, they seem very comfortable with each other.  There were a lot of chuckles in this episode.  I laughed when Wyatt added "Again" with a big smile when Fleming said "never say never".  But my biggest laugh was when Fleming reprimanded Wyatt and Lucy with "you Americans couldn't stick out any more if you tried".  Then he sees Rufus and says "I stand corrected".  They need more lighthearted banter like this on the show.  

I didn't care too much for the time period, it devolved the episode into "just another spy show".  But at least we had Ian Fleming!

Fleming's snark is a lot of what made this episode, and I agree that it's something that's been missing from the show so far.  It really made me wish they could have figured out how to keep him for his spy skills and his dry observations, both of which would have been useful on their time trips.  Of course, there would have been the problem of how to return him to his own time eventually without breaking the rules of time travel, but... .

[Goldmoon]

Warehouse 13 also had a brother/sister vibe going with Pete and Myka until the last episode when the writers forced them into the obligatory romance.  Do not consider Lucy and Wyatt safely in brother/sister territory. 

I have been watching this show, but it's not very good.  I think part of it is the casting of Lucy who just seems like such a drip for most of the adventure.  Should we really buy that no one who works at the home base knows about history?

[tennisgurl]

My favorite episode so far! Good old fashioned Nazi fighting! I am a big sucker for spy stuff (especially period pieces), so this was right up my alley. Plus, Ian Fleming! I was geeking out right there with Wyatt. It was nice seeing Sean McGuire after he was unceremoniously tossed off of Once Upon a Time, and it was nice to be reminded what a likable actor he can be when he isn't being stuck with the Bland Love Interest Role. I really liked his take on Flemming, and while I`m sure this is the last we`ll see of him, I would be alright with him somehow popping up again. 

The chemistry between the three leads seems to be getting into a better place, and I think the actors (especially Wyatt) were a lot better here. Maybe because they gave Wyatt something more fun to do than shoot and miss and angst about his obligatory dead wife. He was practically skipping around with glee when he met Flemming, then his big cheesy grin when he realized he had a new James Bond movie to watch, with a character based on him! This show could do with a lot more funny lines and stuff like that. Its clearly not a Super Serious drama, so I hope they continue to add more life to this show. 

The Von Braun stuff was interesting, and its more of what I want to see in this show. Touching on events and people in history who are known, but not super known to the general public. And I liked the conversation he had with Rufus. I feel like it might be foreshadowing the issues that Rufus seems to be having with the evil Rittenhouse people. 

"...Skyfall". Heheheh

Loved seeing the costume room. I just want to go hang out there and try on outfits!

Edited October 25, 2016 by tennisgurl

[iMonrey]

You know, it's too bad they didn't cast Sean Maguire as Wyatt - and instead of making Wyatt a soldier/sniper type of character, make the character more of a spy type. That way, the mission is simply to prevent whatever Flynn is trying to do, instead of just trying to kill him every time. A big problem with the current formula is that the Mason people keep sending Wyatt back in time to kill Flynn and Wyatt keeps failing. How long are they going to let this guy keep failing at his job before trying someone else? But if they were sending an historian and a skilled agent who were just supposed to follow without engaging and preventing whatever Flynn is doing, that might actually work better. It would probably also work better if Flynn didn't keep bumping into Lucy and having conversations with her. By now he should have figured out a way to circumvent the life boat crew. And since Flynn was willing to hand Lucy over to the Nazis he clearly doesn't care if she's killed. Why hasn't he killed her before? He's had ample opportunity.

Sloppy show.

[henripootel]

Quote

 It is all about the research and invention and construction and development of their projects.  Not about their implications.

Eh, not quite.  I did like the idea that Rufus took his questions to another scientist qualified to answer his qualms but von Braun's answer was a bit too 'eh - who cares?' for my tastes.  I've read a bit about the actual guys who worked the Manhattan project and they were pretty much all well aware of the implications for their work, both the theoretical implications and the direct ones for building an actual bomb.  None were anything like 'so long as I get to do my cool work, I could give a crap how it turns out'.  They knew what they were doing would change everything but their countries were at war, so they did their bit.  von Braun seemed a bit cavalier and I wondered if this was what the writers think it's like to be a scientist.  I'm sure some are assholes but some of everybody are assholes, not just guys smart enough to build rockets.  

Another vote for 'Lucy the Historian of Everything' continues to be unrealistic.  Depending on her specialty, Lucy may know less of Nazi Germany than you do, if you're an avid watcher of the History Channel, which Mrs. Pootel calls the 'Hitler Channel', or did back when they had actual history on it. There's not particular reason for her to know German either, and not surprised she doesn't, so another point for the show.  Honestly, I think shows like this buy themselves a bit of latitude on being accurate if they're a bit fun, and this one seems to be.  They're not playing around with the fact that travel into a war zone is dangerous, although the Germans apparently have a pretty pathetic security officer.  Two of their guys on watch disappeared and they never went to look for them?  A more responsible watch commander would have sounded the alarm, and the Nazis would have themselves a time ship (although not the means to make it work).