S01.E04: The Pool

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Jake and Rebecca take Kevin, Kate and Randall to the community swimming pool; Kevin auditions for his first Broadway play; Toby bumps into his ex-wife at a restaurant; William is mistaken as a loiterer.

Promo:

[againstthewind]

This show brings the laughter and the tears like none other. I cried when Jack was talking to Kate about the shirt. I laughed when Kate said that wise-brimmed hats make her look like a pacifier (and at young Kevin's line about being dead, and Jack talking about Vitamin drinks and Daytona Beach, and Kate's lines about the portfolio).

i also love the show's editing and the musical score. I find myself looking forward to it each week.

Edited October 19, 2016 by againstthewind

[SimoneS]

Gawd, I love this show. the dialogue is poignant, heartbreaking, and humorous. Sterling K. Brown continues to be the standout. His scenes with Ron Cephas Jones (William) were amazing. I cracked up when he told him to put on the damn Chinos. I love adult Randall and boy Randall. The struggle of being a black boy adopted by white parents with an antagonistic brother in a white community. 

Seriously, I don't know how anyone could dislike Toby after he stuck with insane insecure Kate. Who the hell does that? Then again, maybe something is wrong with him to put up with her brand of crazy. If he was my friend or brother, I would tell him to run for the freaking hills.

I felt for Kevin, but his story really is the weakest. He just needs to work hard and shine the role. I am hoping that now that he has reconnected with Randall that he can grow up and be less needy.

I love Rebecca putting Randall first and going back to ask about caring for Randall and asking if he could play with that woman's son. The picture showed that they end up being good friends. And yes, black children and adults do need sunscreen. Poor child Kate. Kids are horrible. Jack's head in Rebecca's lap, sleeping and holding on to all the three children was beautiful.

The musical score is also excellent.

Edited October 19, 2016 by SimoneS

[tribeca]

Although I knew nothing bad was going to happen watching little Kevin having trouble in the pool was a scary feeling.   

    Kate seems like dads favorite, Randal moms.  No wonder Kevin needs so much attention now. 

[DearEvette]

"You're always making sure Kate doesn't eat too much.  And Randall's not too adopted.  But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead."

Oh god.  That was a great line, delivered so awesomely by that kid.  Perfect.

I loved the flashback scenes this ep sooo much.  Just seeing Jack in action as dad and Rebecca as tiger mom.  And learning how to parent a black child.  it does take a village!  Such a smart show and this one episode look at the kids explains so much about the adult three.

That last shot of them all cuddled on Jack just made me smile. Dad Jack is rather sexy.

[mtlchick]

I'm still reeling that no one told me that Care Bears bikinis existed.  

Well, this show got me.  We're now understanding why the kids have these neuroses.  Kate and Randall are obvious, Kevin's is a little more deeper.  I still think his story is the weakest but now you get why the constant need of attention.

Above all, I'm sort of stunned that 20 years ago (?!) Mandy Moore was singing "Candy."  She's knocking this out of the park right now.   

 

Quote

"You're always making sure Kate doesn't eat too much.  And Randall's not too adopted.  But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead."

I shouldn't be laughing at that because the kid was upset, but it was awesome.

Edited October 19, 2016 by mtlchick

[againstthewind]

3 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

"You're always making sure Kate doesn't eat too much.  And Randall's not too adopted.  But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead."

Oh god.  That was a great line, delivered so awesomely by that kid.  Perfect.

I loved the flashback scenes this ep sooo much.  Just seeing Jack in action as dad and Rebecca as tiger mom.  And learning how to parent a black child.  it does take a village!  Such a smart show and this one episode look at the kids explains so much about the adult three.

That last shot of them all cuddled on Jack just made me smile. Dad Jack is rather sexy.

All this. And Milo had my ovaries firing on all cylinders this episode.

[stonehaven]

So...what was the big twist?

I about died laughing as the Dad was asking Kate not to go to Daytona Beach....

[tribeca]

6 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

So...what was the big twist?

I about died laughing as the Dad was asking Kate not to go to Daytona Beach....

The twist was that William is a fan of the Manny and has an aughtograph book 

Edited October 19, 2016 by tribeca

[kris4n6]

14 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Although I knew nothing bad was going to happen watching little Kevin having trouble in the pool was a scary feeling.   

I started to have flashbacks. I nearly drowned at age six in a very similar way - walking along the edge of the shallow end and I slipped. All the adults were too busy drinking and not paying attention. Thankfully my brother was watching and got their attention. 

I actually had to tell myself mid-scene "I know he lives, calm yourself!"

I felt so bad for Kate :( I was a fat kid too and didn't have many friends at that age. I hate that she was so confident at home only to have those bitches break her down.

[buttersister]

*Sniff* Randall and Beth for the win. Every time.

Was impressed with Toby's stickiness---although he was clearly trying to get as 180 degrees from first wife as possible---hoping he and Kate can exhale.

Manny. Heh, figures that EVERYBODY loves Manny.

[pianogirl73]

This episode is the first time Kate has been unlikable to me. I would have ran away and not looked back if I were Toby.

 I loved the conversation with Randall and William in the store and also the conversation  between Jack and Kate at the pool. William is becoming one of my favorite characters. 

[Amethyst]

This was a great episode.  I hope SKB gets an Emmy nod for this show.  His monologue in the store was excellent, but his scene while watching the play was even better.  You could just see the uncertainty playing out on his face.  He's just an amazing actor, through vocal and body language.  

I'm glad they added more depth to Kevin.  His looks and charm have allowed him to coast throughout his life, but there's a reason why he's so desperate for attention.  I'm hoping that he ditched the play to actually learn his craft.  He didn't get the role for his talent, he got it because they want a recognizable name, and Maine had every right to be pissed.

The pool scenes were great.  I laughed at the running gag of the disappearing pool chairs.  I could understand why Rebecca was panicking.  When your kid disappears, it's easy to flip out and lose your cool, and she just kept putting her foot in her mouth.  But the facts the other mom told her were real, and I'm glad they got past their first impressions.

This show hasn't made me cry, but tonight it got pretty close, and both scenes involved Kate.  The first was her expression after she read the note.  Awful, bratty girls.  The second time was when Jack was telling Kate the story of the Florida shirt.  I noticed that as she pulled it over her head, Jack's face crumpled for a second, like he was about to cry.  That was some good acting by Milo.

[bettername2come]

"Does he need sunscreen? I knew it! Would you tell my husband that?"This was great. I'd love to see more family outings like this.

Justin Hartley made me cringe during his audition, so good work there. For all Kevin's self-involved tendencies, it's clear he loves his siblings and his nieces. I can't wait to get the Big Three together in present day.

[WhosThatGirl]

This show. Every week it gets me. 

[callmebetty]

This show, I tell you. The chemistry between Mandy and Milo is outstanding, but then you add the chemistry with kids and it's extraordinary. I never thought much about when he was Jess on Gilmore Girls,  but damn he's fine now.

Add me to the love of the line "and where's Kevin oh yeah he's dead" I burst out laughing. But it was spot on in tone and vocal infliction with how adult Kevin speaks.

I'll just add I  love Sterling K Brown and think he's phenomenal but is it wrong I liked him with the few extra pounds when he played Chris Darden?

I almost drowned,taking swimming lessons no less, and I had to calm myself down knowing nothing was going to happen to Kevin. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by callmebetty

[Amethyst]

2 minutes ago, callmebetty said:

Add me to the love of the line "and where's Kevin oh yeah he's dead" I burst out laughing. But it was spot on in tone and vocal infliction with how adult Kevin speaks.

I almost drowned,taking swimming lessons no less, and I had to calm myself down knowing nothing was going to happen to Kevin. 

I laughed, too.  It wasn't like the dialogue was funny, but the kid was so dramatic.  

Also had my own near drowning experience as a kid.  Luckily, my camp counselor spotted me flailing in the deep end, so she reached in, and pulled me out with one hand.  Thank you, camp counselor!

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, stonehaven said:

So...what was the big twist?

I about died laughing as the Dad was asking Kate not to go to Daytona Beach....

I thought the twist was they have a younger sibling somewhere, as Jack mentioned wanting a fourth kid. LOL.

God Milo is so fucking fine.  Finally in this episode they showed it.  Thank you showrunners.

I love this show.  My favourite of the Fall season.  And I've watched dozens!

Edited October 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Primetimer]

Tackling issues of race, class, identity, insecurity, history...ALL OF IT.

View the full article

[SimoneS]

The only thing that felt off about the family at the pool is that none of the white parents were covertly and overtly gawking at them with Randall. Interracial families would definitely be attracting a lot more attention in the 80s than today.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Haha!  We still attract attention now.  Interesting point.

[BoogieBurns]

They better invent a cure for stage 4 stomach cancer. I want to watch William and Randall every week. I love how Beth and Randall were doing the girls hair and William tagged in to help too.

Milo is so attractive. Mandy is such a good actress! (Her Pop music career was more like 17 years ago, don't age me any more than I have to @mtlchick) 

I was Kate's shape at 8, and I was a very confident kid. I was the one sending notes to people telling them they are kicked out of our group. But, I get it, fat kids are always bullied. Follow the formula. (They aren't I wasn't. I stopped being a bully and stopped being chubby eventually.)

[Spencer Hastings]

This show. It's doing a beautiful job of setting the scene for why these characters behave the way that they do and showing how the past follows us into the future.  Kate's weight issues, Kevin's attention issues, Randall's need to do the right thing/obvious race issues.  So great.  All of these things that Rebecca and Jack are instilling in these kids and I can't even judge them because they're trying and they're so charming. 

Randall continues to have the best story to me.  Growing up as the only black family in a white town, I recognize so much of my own experiences. Judgmental black people, "cautious" white people, apologizing when you shouldn't, and choosing to let things go.  So familiar.

I may or may not have cried when William called Randall son.  Then I got it together and Randall introduced him to Kevin, so I cried again.  

I love Mandy Moore in this.  She's doing a phenomenal job.  

[random chance]

That speech Randall gave in the store about how he knew he was being watched and he'd be asked for his ID and so on  was just heartbreaking. It's like, even when you "know" that's the case (because you read and pay attention), you don't really know. And I had to remind myself, that scene was set in the present - not the 70's.

[izabella]

I thought this was a great episode all the way around - loved it. 

I really enjoyed the insights into the young family, and how that leads into who the kids are today as adults.  I'm really looking forward to seeing Randall and Kevin's relationship in the present.  I also hope we see more of Rebecca's friendship with the lady at the pool. 

Kate was crazypants stalker this episode.  Kate, Kate, Kate - you should have just asked Toby about his ex and saved yourself all the "research"!  I love that they were both so open and honest with each other when they finally did talk about it, though. 

Randall was terrific in the store with William. 

[memememe76]

What I find interesting about young Kate was how extrovert she was, much like her dad. Adult Kate is is so withdrawn now. I wonder what she was like in her teens. I also notice that young Kate and Kevin don't really do anything together. 

This was such a good episode. Mandy and Milo are sooooo good. And I hated Jess on Gilmore Girls. 

I wonder if there is a fourth child. That fourth kid would feel so left out of the Big Three. 

That photo with the mother Rebecca befriended was kinda weird, as her child is missing in that photo. If I were Randall, it would be weird to hang a photo of your friend's mom and not the friend. 

[Lady Calypso]

Although I found this the weakest of the episodes so far, it still was not bad compared to many other shows that I've been watching. It's mostly the Kate and Kevin's storylines this episode that brought it down for me. 

Kevin's story is the weakest, but I also feel like he has the most potential in an interesting story. I'm not thrilled that Kevin's story has to be centered around him changing career paths to theatre while presumably falling in love with Ms. Maine. I think there's more to Kevin that we could see, and it's something I want to explore. I just don't know about the main aspects of his story thus far. I loved young Kevin's subplot in the flashbacks, so that's why I'm not giving up on Kevin and his story. And as soon as he was reunited with Randall, I was interested completely. I feel like his story will always be better when he's with his family. 

Kevin meeting William was short, but very interesting. I think he expected that he would spend time with Randall and work on their relationship, only to discover that Randall was getting to know his biological father. I think that he won't handle it as well as he'll fake it. You see, that's what I want more of, but I get the feeling like we might have Kevin's story as 60% theatre/love interest. Which is a shame because we did start to see Kevin's issues of possibly feeling left out of the family showing. Randall and Rebecca are clearly close, and the flashbacks show that Jack/Kate have a strong bond showing, so where does that leave Kevin? 

Man, Toby is harsh. I get that he feels like Kate's invading on his personal life too much by stalking his ex wife, but I do think he overreacted. I'm really bothered by Toby. I know he cares for Kate, but every episode has him overreacting or saying something that makes me wonder about him as a character. How was Kate supposed to know about Toby's relationship with his ex wife? Of course she should have asked, and that's definitely on her. I just didn't find his reaction as sympathetic as I wanted it to be. 

Randall/William's story is still so very good. Randall telling William about how he has to be careful as a black man in a white neighbourhood was rough to watch. But the moment that got me was during the play, when Randall was watching his daughter play Snow White and being forced to listen to the laughing and whispering, I'm assuming because the families in there are not used to seeing a black child play such a prominent role in a school play. 

The flashbacks, of course, were the second best part of the episode. We do get a little more Jack. I love Mandy Moore and I love Rebecca, but she has clearly gotten the majority of the flashback scenes, so it was nice to see Jack get some one-on-one scenes with Kate and Kevin. His story about the Florida t-shirt was a good scene. It's just tough to watch the Jack scenes because I'm listening to the dialogue and trying to piece together what could have happened to him in the present day timeline. His line about always being there for Kevin just makes me wonder if he's able to keep that promise.

Rebecca's own subplot with the black mother was good too. I hope we see more of that little friendship forming, because I enjoyed what I saw of it. 

When Jack told Rebecca that he wanted a fourth kid, it did make me wonder if we'll see an upcoming storyline about them trying for another kid and something happens there. My brain goes to either miscarriage or they're successful but something happens to the kid. Maybe the younger sibling is estranged from the family. They could go down that route, I guess. Maybe Baby Sibling is with Jack in the present day timeline, if he's alive. 

Because of this show's twists, I'm just keeping my twist options open. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

This is a strange comparison, but was anyone reminded of Joey Tribbiani working in that play with Kate on Friends?  The Kevin storyline MIGHT have reminded me of something else too, but I definitely thought of Joey.  I swear, if it goes that exact route, LOL.  

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, Toby is harsh. I get that he feels like Kate's invading on his personal life too much by stalking his ex wife, but I do think he overreacted. I'm really bothered by Toby. I know he cares for Kate, but every episode has him overreacting or saying something that makes me wonder about him as a character. How was Kate supposed to know about Toby's relationship with his ex wife? Of course she should have asked, and that's definitely on her. I just didn't find his reaction as sympathetic as I wanted it to be. 

Same.  Also their energies are just so different.  Kate to me reads so light and Toby reads so dark.  

The actress playing Toby's ex looked alarmingly like Kristin Davis.  I've probably seen that actress in something before.

Sorry to do this, but what was the conclusion of Jack's story about the shirt?  He saved some guy from others attacking him and what did the guy say?  

Edited October 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[voiceover]

I never liked Milo on Gilmore Girls (I credit the character for that), but his Jack is making me wonder what I've been missing.

And Young Kevin's Pool Soliloquy?  That must be when he knew he should be an actor.

[bybrandy]

28 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Man, Toby is harsh. I get that he feels like Kate's invading on his personal life too much by stalking his ex wife, but I do think he overreacted. I'm really bothered by Toby. I know he cares for Kate, but every episode has him overreacting or saying something that makes me wonder about him as a character. How was Kate supposed to know about Toby's relationship with his ex wife? Of course she should have asked, and that's definitely on her. I just didn't find his reaction as sympathetic as I wanted it to be. 

Kate made his relationship with his ex wife all about her and her insecurities and he was the one being harsh?   I know he snapped at her but she totally went behind his back to find out about his personal life and then made it all about how she stacked up.   Seriously, totally team Toby here.  In fact the part where Toby didn't tell her she was a complete and total nutter who needed some serious therapy stat is a testament to how much not a bad guy he is.   I mean at this point he might be headed the other way.   

34 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall/William's story is still so very good. Randall telling William about how he has to be careful as a black man in a white neighbourhood was rough to watch. But the moment that got me was during the play, when Randall was watching his daughter play Snow White and being forced to listen to the laughing and whispering, I'm assuming because the families in there are not used to seeing a black child play such a prominent role in a school play. 

 

I don't think it was so much about her being the lead as her being literally snow white whose complexion was white as snow and is the fairest (IE lightest complexioned not most able to referee) in the land.   

[Artsda]

"But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead." That line was so perfect. I wonder since he came out first and healthy that makes him not a favorite of the parents, he's like the one they don't need to worry about so he gets ignored. Kate was born while in distress and Randall was special circumstances adopted. 

Loved the pool scenes, the fighting over pool chairs was funny and true.

With the photo in Randall's house, I guess the pool lady ends up becoming close to the entire family.  LOL at William being star struck by The Manny. However, he had to have seen the photos in the house before, also didn't the oldest girl have a huge poster of The Manny on the wall addressed to his nieces. I feel like William had to know this information.

Quote

The actress playing Toby's ex looked alarmingly like Kristin Davis.  I've probably seen that actress in something before.

 

 I remembered Toby's ex from Saved by the Bell: New Class.

[Cardie]

52 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm assuming because the families in there are not used to seeing a black child play such a prominent role in a school play. 

They aren't used to a character who gets her name because her skin is white as snow being played by an African American. I was guilty of chuckling a bit myself, even though colorblind casting is so frequent as to be unremarkable these days.

I know now why Kate is drawn to Toby. Her father is very much like him in personality, always hyping up how fun and great everything is going to be and hiding his demons. And both flashbacks to the kids at 8 show clearly that Kate was Daddy's girl.

The most heart-breaking thing this episode was poor Randall keeping count of the black people he has met in a notebook and how few marks there were.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The only thing that felt off about the family at the pool is that none of the white parents were covertly and overtly gawking at them with Randall. Interracial families would definitely be attracting a lot more attention in the 80s than today.

Was the pool segregated?  I was confused (as often happens) because he was the only black kid we saw in the pool until Rebecca went looking for him, and it seemed that the black families were in a separate area. 

But sometimes I see things that aren't there -- which might have happened when Randall's family went to the play.  There was laughter when Snow White was introduced and laughter again when the prince called her "fair".  Those lines weren't the least bit funny, and Randall looked uncomfortable. 

[Spencer Hastings]

10 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Was the pool segregated?  I was confused (as often happens) because he was the only black kid we saw in the pool until Rebecca went looking for him, and it seemed that the black families were in a separate area.

The pool probably wasn't officially segregated but sometimes races tend to stick to "their own kind."  Birds of a feather, separation in the cafeteria, etc...that's almost definitely what would have happened at a pool in the 80's.  Heck, it would still happen today.  I've had people ask me why I wasn't sitting with the other black people in class during college or in the dining hall.  The separation is  almost expected. 

[biakbiak]

This family loves a surprise pop-in.

[pennben]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Kate made his relationship with his ex wife all about her and her insecurities and he was the one being harsh?   I know he snapped at her but she totally went behind his back to find out about his personal life and then made it all about how she stacked up.

Yeah, I really disliked that plotline.  And yet, I think it revealed something more about Toby than Kate as I thought initially.  Before I go on, I really hated that they had her do that, I don't think folks really do that in real life to go with 'why yes, I'd like an interview'.

What I think this revealed about Toby helps explain why I have felt conflicted about him and have since the beginning of the series.  He told Kate tonight that the divorce destroyed him and that is when he gained the weight (95 pounds, I think he said).  That turned on a light bulb for me.  He used to be married, successful, whatever, but also 100 pounds less than he is now.  So his confidence is built from not being fat most of his life and he's pushing Kate to have the confidence he has even though she hasn't been in a place to build that confidence.  He's saying to Kate..."be like me" and she's been saying she's not like him, and maybe until she heard this story tonight, she assumed that once again she was the sole cause of herself not being as confident as him.

Him having become recently fat (and trying to get his confidence back, after having only lost it a few years ago), as opposed to her being fat and having the confidence drained out of her all of her life (witness the pool incident tonight) explains a lot of their different attitudes and frustrations. It's starting to make sense (to me at least).

Edited October 19, 2016 by pennben

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Kate I get being insecure/jealous/curious about someone's ex and googling them, but damn, girl! Stay out of her store!

Loved William's apology to Randall. I think the reason he hesitated until now was because how do you really apologize for something like that? I'm sure he felt like "I'm sorry" would never be enough to fix the questions and wondering that Randall grew up with and that's exactly why he didn't say it at first. I also really appreciate that William and Randall didn't become instant BFFs once they met. It's much more realistic to show them having these disagreements as they spend time together and get to know each other.

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This is a strange comparison, but was anyone reminded of Joey Tribbiani working in that play with Kate on Friends?  The Kevin storyline MIGHT have reminded me of something else too, but I definitely thought of Joey.  I swear, if it goes that exact route, LOL. 

Ha, I was totally reminded of that too! Now I'm really hoping that the play ends with Kevin getting on a spaceship.

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

"You're always making sure Kate doesn't eat too much.  And Randall's not too adopted.  But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead."

 

4 hours ago, Artsda said:

"But where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead." That line was so perfect. I wonder since he came out first and healthy that makes him not a favorite of the parents, he's like the one they don't need to worry about so he gets ignored. Kate was born while in distress and Randall was special circumstances adopted.

His summary of their issues was so perfect in a way that only a kid would say it too. Older kids would probably filter it a little bit more, but an angry 8 year old is just going to blurt out the truth in the bluntest way possible: mom and dad are too busy making sure Kate doesn't eat and Randall isn't too adopted. Ha! Out of the mouths of babes.

I remember when I read Jacob Have I Loved, the main character's issue was similar to Kevin's - she was the twin born first who was healthy and felt ignored all of her life. Her twin came out weaker so they essentially put the first twin down and immediately began trying to help the second twin. Now how much of the first being ignored later in life is a matter of interpretation/perception but I think that a lot of kids, no matter how much attention they receive, focus on the moments when their siblings are getting attention and they feel neglected, even if it's only for a second.

Even though I can't swim (despite being forced to take swimming in high school), when Kevin started flailing, I was yelling, "DUDE! You're right next to the lane line! Just grab it and quit thrashing around!"

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

the moment that got me was during the play, when Randall was watching his daughter play Snow White and being forced to listen to the laughing and whispering, I'm assuming because the families in there are not used to seeing a black child play such a prominent role in a school play.

 

3 hours ago, Cardie said:

They aren't used to a character who gets her name because her skin is white as snow being played by an African American. I was guilty of chuckling a bit myself, even though colorblind casting is so frequent as to be unremarkable these days.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't say that color blind casting is frequent enough to be unremarkable. There are still people who are complaining about non-white actors being cast as characters who have traditionally been depicted as white. Recent examples of color blind casting that people have complained about: Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm/the Human Torch in the Fantastic Four, Noma Dumezweni as Hermione Grainger in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, Lucy Liu as Watson in Sherlock, and the cast of Hamilton.

[SimoneS]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, Toby is harsh. I get that he feels like Kate's invading on his personal life too much by stalking his ex wife, but I do think he overreacted. I'm really bothered by Toby. I know he cares for Kate, but every episode has him overreacting or saying something that makes me wonder about him as a character. How was Kate supposed to know about Toby's relationship with his ex wife? Of course she should have asked, and that's definitely on her. I just didn't find his reaction as sympathetic as I wanted it to be. 

I know that Kate is one of the main characters so some people favor her and are determined to dislike Toby, but I cannot believe anyone thinks that he was harsh and should have been sympathetic toward Kate. She behaved like a freaking nutjob.  She  stalked the man's ex-wife and got a job under false pretenses. What she did was unhinged, deceptive and cruel. If someone had done that to her, most of the people here would lose it. Frankly, Toby wasn't harsh enough. If anything he was way too kind and understanding, getting over his anger too quickly. He should have turfed her out the door and told her to go see a psychologist. Seriously, Toby can do better.

Edited October 19, 2016 by SimoneS

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, tribeca said:

Although I knew nothing bad was going to happen watching little Kevin having trouble in the pool was a scary feeling.   

    Kate seems like dads favorite, Randal moms.  No wonder Kevin needs so much attention now. 

I wonder if the family considers Kevin the "middle" kid?  Isn't that "middle kid" syndrome?

[MyAimIsTrue]

7 hours ago, Artsda said:

With the photo in Randall's house, I guess the pool lady ends up becoming close to the entire family.

I hate that I missed seeing or noticing the photo so I guess it's a good excuse to watch the episode again.

I love that the pool lady, Ryan Michelle Bathe, is married to Sterling K. Brown in real life.  What a talented couple.

[Happytobehere]

I wonder if the favoritism is rooted in perceived status of the kids. Yes, Kate is "Daddy's Little Girl," but she is ostracized and picked on, as is Randall, so she he parents focus their attention on reassuring them that they are loved and special.  As a by product of this, Kevin, the seemingly "okay" one gets lost in the shuffle.  However, given what we have seen of his relationship with his siblings, Kevin clearly responded to Kate and Randall completely differently, and that was and is on him.  

I loved the interaction between Randall and William, and the way that interaction informed how he viewed the reaction of the white parents at his daughter's play. The conversation between bio dad and son was needed not just because it speaks to the special issues faced with transracial adoptions (loved Rebecca realizing that acknowledging Randall's reality didn't make her less his mother, but rather showed just how much she really is his mother), but because it speaks to the ongoing discussion of representation mattering.

Kate is beyond insecure, she is imbalanced.  It's bad enough she cyber-stalked Toby's ex-wife, she upped the anti to physical stalking.  I can't imagine how this job thing is going to play out.

Kevin's journey remains the least interesting.  I'm all in with his siblings and parents. Hopefully that will change because I want to be equally invested in all the characters.

Edited because I forgot to say how pleasantly surprised I was to see that Kevin seemed to have a real and genuine relationship with his neices.  It speaks well of both him and Randall that they didn't allow their differences to get in the way of the generational, familial bonding.  I also loved how Kevin handled WIlliam's presence.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Happytobehere

[ShadowFacts]

I am very impressed with the child actors.  They are so good.  And the scenes with William and Randall, wow.  I have yet to cry (and I cry pretty easily), but I did tear up when William told Randall he was doing everything right.  Maybe that's what I like so much about this show, I care about the relationships and interactions, but they feel real to me as opposed to purposely going for the obvious gut punch. 

[Happytobehere]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The only thing that felt off about the family at the pool is that none of the white parents were covertly and overtly gawking at them with Randall. Interracial families would definitely be attracting a lot more attention in the 80s than today.

I thought about that and then realized I liked it because the show didn't go with the default white perspective but instead gave us how Randall and the black families at the pool saw things.

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The only thing that felt off about the family at the pool is that none of the white parents were covertly and overtly gawking at them with Randall. Interracial families would definitely be attracting a lot more attention in the 80s than today.

I was afraid they were going to be told they couldn't swim there so I was happy to see other black families at the pool.  

Like many viewers I think Randall's storyline is the most compelling and the acting is superb.  Broke my heart to see people in present day giggle over a black Snow White.  (You'd think other parents would know better than to be hurtful to a child.  Fortunately the daughter was oblivious, while Randall was overly aware.)  But I'm glad we are getting to know Kevin a little better, finding he isn't as shallow (no pun intended) as portrayed till now.  (Poor Kevin is even somewhat neglected as a character.)  Kate was kind of crazy, but I get it.  Toby's truth should be a wake up call for her.  I love how Jack interacts with each child.  It will be heartwrenching to find out what happens to him before 2016.

[Guest]

Another great episode.  I love Jack's character so much. I didn't expect to because of lingering dislike for Jess and Milo. As many of you have said, Kevin's line about being dead was great. 

I really disliked present day Kate's storyline this week.  Randall's is the most interesting to me by far.

[Lostinthehouse]

Quote

Kate was crazypants stalker this episode.  Kate, Kate, Kate - you should have just asked Toby about his ex and saved yourself all the "research"!  I love that they were both so open and honest with each other when they finally did talk about it, though. 

Kate acted like a normal, insecure woman.  Her insecurity is shown so many times in this series so far that her stalking the ex was totally in character.  I was very much like Kate about 10 years ago when I "stalked" a boyfriend's ex.  Once when he was out of town on business and I was staying in his apartment, I rifled through all his papers, looking for "something" (anything) about his ex.  I found 2 photos of her hidden in a cupboard above the fridge.  I promptly ripped up the photos and took them directly to the outside garbage dumpster.  Was I / am I crazy?  No, just insecure.

This show gets me every single week.  It will be unbearable when William's cancer advances;  I will be heartbroken when we learn what happened to Jack (not foreseeing good things here), I am not looking forward to seeing Kate's continuing insecurity (although it is inevitable), and any more scenes with Randall will make me watch with a kleenex box in my lap.  It's a stellar example of what television should be, and what other dramas should strive to be.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Lostinthehouse

[Enigma X]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I know that Kate is one of the main characters so some people favor her and are determined to dislike Toby, but I cannot anyone thinks that he was harsh and should have been sympathetic toward Kate. She behaved like a freaking nutjob.  She  stalked the man's ex-wife and got a job under false pretenses. What she did was unhinged, deceptive and cruel. If someone had done that to her, most of the people here would lose it. Frankly, Toby wasn't harsh enough. If anything he was way too kind and understanding, getting over his anger too quickly. He should have turfed her out the door and told her go see a psychologist. Seriously, Toby can do better.

I don't like Toby and am not "determined"not to like him. Why I don't like him has very little to do with Kate. If he were a real person with the same make a joke out of everything, life of the party, and always on personality, I would dislike him or her too. It is ok. Some people hate Kate because she is consumed about losing weight and has insecurities. That is ok too. Basically,  regardless of Toby's intentions, people with his personality are not my cup of tea on TV or in real life.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, againstthewind said:

And Milo had my ovaries firing on all cylinders this episode

It wasn't my ovaries firing <grin>, but yeah, I hear you.

 

10 hours ago, kris4n6 said:

I started to have flashbacks. I nearly drowned at age six in a very similar way

I did too. But my experience was in swimming class, and the instructor watch, letting me figure out how to jump from the bottom, get air, and do it all again. Never forgave her. Never went swimming again.

10 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

But, I get it, fat kids are always bullied. Follow the formula. (They aren't I wasn't.

You were very fortunate. I had an experience almost identical to Kate's - and it still haunts me, decades later.

 

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

The most heart-breaking thing this episode was poor Randall keeping count of the black people he has met in a notebook and how few marks there were.

This is the first time I actually teared up while watching this show, despite Kate's story resonating with me more personally. The scene in the store got to me as well, because I remember very clearly being in an high end store as a college student (white) watching the store security follow a respectable, middle class black couple instead of wondering what my husband and I were doing there, dressed in jeans and definitely not in an income bracket the store catered to. (late 70's)

[kili]

Kevin really is transparent in that family. He gets his toy stolen and his brother gets a compliment for finishing the game. He tries to interact with the parents and gets ignored. He's the one whose objections about going to the pool are dismissed. He's the one who can't swim well ("Just go in the shallow end and Randall can stay with you") and in the water and they give him not one iota of attention? When Randall goes missing, he gets yelled at for not keeping a better eye on Randall. Wasn't Randall the one who should be watching him? 

Kevin was hilarious at the bar with Miss Mayne. I don't think you know what friends are. And then she smashes her glass. LOL

Kate went so far over the line the line is a dot (to steal a line from Joey from "Friends"). Cyber-stalking the ex was weird enough, but actually agreeing to an interview so that she could further investigate her? Then actually taking the job and coming to tell Toby how great his ex is? Yikes. And then to hear that he is still recovering from the divorce and how much that ex hurt him? It's not all about you Kate. And stop stalking.

I actually don't think the problem "Samantha" had with Kate was her weight. "Samantha" and friend were at the pool trying to look cool and older than they are. Kate was goofing around like the little kid she is and wearing a "Care Bear" bikini (before that was ironic). There is an age where suddenly kids start acting cool and an immature friend acting like a super model and waving madly in her Care Bear bikini is the opposite of cool. It was Rebecca who kept insisting that Kate wear a T-shirt. It is Rebecca who isn't comfortable with Kate's weight.

Randall was perfection. And I love how they set things up in the show. At breakfast, Rebecca told him not to scratch his rash. Randall and William are awesome together. One or both of them better be up for Emmys next year. Randall's story has so many great layers and the actor is doing an amazing job portraying them.