S08.E02: GoodHangups, The Lapel Project, Ice Age Meals, TactiBite

[yeswedo]

Quote

 

A self-proclaimed "culinary ninja" gives a poetic pitch for his delicious heat-and-eat paleo meals; a proud father and his 17-year-old son hope their high-tech device designed for catching fish hooks them an investment from the Sharks; a mother who has designed removable and reusable magnet stickers for hanging art; an energetic entrepreneur sells the Sharks on how he can turn a suit jacket into a tuxedo with customized lapels. Also, an update on the motion-activated toilet-bowl light, IllumiBowl, that Kevin O'Leary invested in during season 7.

[mtlchick]

Tonight's poetry slam was brought to you by a major overvaluation! 

[KaveDweller]

Wow, the Sharks were really obnoxious with the "tell me your answer now or my deal goes away."  I hate when they pull crap like that, especially when other Sharks seem to have legitimate offers.

But the Ice Age Food guy was even more obnoxious.

[mjc570]

 Weird pitches - I thought that first one, the fake lapels, was a joke, they looked awful.  I can't believe Mark gave them such a good deal.

  I thought the hang-ups seemed like a good product, although I doubt they can support anything with any kind of weight, but I guess they'd work for for kiddy pictures.  The woman just seemed hyper to me, but certainly business-savy.

Speaking of hyper - I have to admit that I liked the Ice Meals guy, and the food looked good.  I would actually be interested in a paleo-type of delivered meals,  but I guess the guy was such a nut he turned off the potential investors.  I wonder if Lance owns any of the company?

Why did the fish caller thing need an infomercial?  It seemed pretty straightforward to me, but I don't fish. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by mjc570
morning coffee really helps

[bilgistic]

Toilet bowl lights are selling like gangbusters. I remain grossed out by that product and in disbelief that millions of people are buying it. Do I just not get it because I don't watch myself pee into a brightly lit, beckoning target?

Edited October 1, 2016 by bilgistic

[LittleIggy]

10 bucks a meal seems high for frozen food.

I hate the "take my offer now or it's gone" thing, too.

[rhys]

The magnet woman was from Kansas so that made her fun to watch . I realize she stated she was from Seattle, but I'm guessing that's where she lives now. Paleo was all over the place & I missed the quick reference to another product. Can someone help a girl out?

The fish deal was clever & interesting. I live & fish in Kansas. Was there no mention of trying to get that into cabelas & bass pro shops?

[candall]

I was looking forward to the Paleo shipment presentation.  That's the way I prefer to eat and sometimes I get really tired of shopping and cooking for myself.  Then the guy started with that poem.  Groan.

[ETA:  I don't think $10 is unreasonably high for a protein-based system, with no high-carb or artificial fluff fillers like pasta noodles, cheetoh-y snacks or cupcake desserts.]

 

Agree with above comments about the "take my offer now" ultimatums.  It's understandable if the inventor is being rude, trying to squeeze a sweeter deal out of someone else, but when a shark is adamant right off the bat that you can't listen to competitive offers, it sounds like they're sure a better offer will be coming and they just want to scoop up a bargain.  What happened to that whole "fair valuation" thing?

To me, the hangers looked like inadequate crap--did you see the size of those magnets?--but for that particular type of thing, Lori did seem like a perfect fit.  I was impressed the woman took care of herself with a counter-offer persuasive enough to be accepted. 

 

I also dislike it when the sharks have to jump up and down and interrupt negotiations to announce "I'm out."  Sometimes I wonder how they squeeze all those massive gasbag egos into Soundstage Six.  Mark Cuban must rent supplementary storage units for his.

Edited October 1, 2016 by candall

[hkit]

I'm on Paleo so I was interested in the pitch. But I was so put off by the inventor that I was glad to see him not get a deal. He is an example of why I hate telling people I'm on Paleo. He is the stereotypical meathead moron who only talks about cavemen and crossfit. I don't want to be associated with him. Shallow, I know. 

Too bad, because as someone who travels a lot, there needs to be Paleo convenence foods in Whole Foods or Wegmen's that I can heat up in a hotel room microwave. But he is way off. Paleo pushes fresh, unprocessed food. You can't ship me a case of frozen meals and be unprocessed. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by hkit

[Primetimer]

Which is why they will most certainly not be crazy about the sight of the Sharks wearing garish stick-on lapels. Instead, let's save our admiration for one of the cleverest people to ever pitch a product on this show.

View the full article

[PepperMonkey]

Daymond is my favourite shark ever since I found out how many people he mentors, who didn't get deals, and about his newfound love of beekeeping. He's very complex for someone who always talks about the hood. He needs to shave his head again; I don't like him with hair. Also, I was upset that he seems to be the new Robert: getting shut out without any respect.

Although I did think the 17 year old fisherkid was intelligent, I did NOT like the way they just shut out Daymond without even acknowledging his offer. Did they go with Robert? Because I also thought Lori was only jumping in to try to cut off Daymond, and that she was totally wrong for them and their product. And she always says she has to feel passionate about the product, or be into it or interested in it, and it only seemed as if she was interested in doing an infomercial because 20 years ago, she saw a Ronco commercial on Pocket Fisherman.

[cooksdelight]

I saw some paleo foods in Walmart the other day, in the freezer section, and they were in plastic so you could see what you were getting before you bought it. A lot cheaper than this guy's stuff.

My boyfriend sat up and paid attention to the fishing thing. He loves to fish and he thought this kid's idea was brilliant. He said "You don't know how many hours I've spent trying to catch a bass or trout, but if I had this thing it would cut down on the time tremendously." Yes, they did go with Robert, and with his high-tech background and connections I think this thing might wind up being the biggest seller from Shark Tank, ever.

[theatremouse]

I didn't like the "answer now" tactics either, but I was oddly pleased when they went with Robert (although I think Daymond would have been a reasonable choice given he does fish a lot). Still, in those situations when Robert has offered someone exactly what they asked for and then the others jump in with something else, it seems like he usually gets shut out and it's like WTF so that this time it actually worked was refreshing. (I mean, not that Robert's some poor dude who never gets a shot... still television-narrative-wise it was satisfying. I don't have the numbers of how frequently that actually happens or not, so my impression may be more skewed than what happens. But it did seem like it broke the usual pattern.)

[starri]

I always thought the point of fishing was not the catching of fish, but the drinking of beer while waiting for the fish.

11 hours ago, rhys said:

Paleo was all over the place & I missed the quick reference to another product. Can someone help a girl out?

He was talking about the way Amy's built its brand.  Although he was quick to point out that Amy is vegetarian, and not all manly and brawny like paleo.  And then he grunted like a caveman and did more burpees.

Honestly, I thought the lapel thing was almost clever.  I can see it having the ability to be tacky, but I agree that it would be great for high school proms, and I thought the guy with the wine-colored suit really did look good with the black lapels.  And the jacket they had for Lori actually looked okay too.  

I really have no comment on Magnet Lady.  She was competent and had a product that solves an actual problem.

[Merneith]

I could see the lapels idea maybe getting some play from sports branding. Or if they could go into customized printing for wedding receptions favors (everyone looks sharp for the wedding and the photos, and then hand out "congrats Ken & Barbie!" lapels or stickers for the receptions.) But it's stupid outside the novelty market.

[Jamoche]

My knowledge of men's suits ends with admiring them when they're worn well, but the rust-colored lapel guy looks too small. Especially in the recap screenshot showing his back - it shouldn't pull like that when he's barely reaching forward at all, right?

That can only go to the novelty market. Which shark got the press-on ties and bow ties? I've seen them (no idea if it's the shark version or not) on the impulse buy racks in my grocery store.

[bilgistic]

I just had a thought about these disposable lapels, which is what they are, ultimately. In this day and age, do we still need to be making more disposable stuff? And how expensive is it really for the average guy to rent three tuxes in his life. If we're being terribly heteronormative as I guess we are, we're talking junior and senior prom and a wedding. If you're in someone else's wedding, they're not letting you put fake lapels on your 20-year-old high school tux, as if it would still fit. Come on.

[starri]

I think the point was more that you could turn a dark suit INTO a tux by applying the lapels.  So rather than buy or rent them, you just buy a sticker and use it on a suit you already own.

I don't know, I didn't go to prom and definitely didn't wear a tux when I got married, so even two occasions seem like a lot to me.

[Cyranetta]

As far as the stick-on lapels, I can see them being purchased for various theatrical productions (particularly high-school/community theater), where it would make it a lot easier and cheaper to get a chorus "look". There are also costume stores, where you could sell more in-your-face kinds of designs (Day-Glo, f'rex). Granted, those are small markets, but I suppose with novelties, every small market adds up.

[Silly Angel]

I loved the magnet lady but hated her product. It seems geared toward 1) college students who aren't allowed to put nail holes in walls with their Bob Marley/Scarface/Megan Fox posters or 2) moms, like her, who have a cache of rotating kid art to display. You can see the outside magnets and it just looks tacky. I'm renovating and decorating a new house so I'm super-sensitive to such things just now. Discovering products that can hang flat-backed art has been my most recent and life-changing revelation. But they leave small nail holes because I am a grownup.

[Latverian Diplomat]

21 hours ago, mjc570 said:

 Weird pitches - I thought that first one, the fake lapels, was a joke, they looked awful.  I can't believe Mark gave them such a good deal.

 

Somewhere, Jimmy Kimmel is tossing another one of his "hilarious fake pitches" into the waste basket.

I was surprised that Robert didn't sneak in a plug for Tipsy elves during the lapels pitch, as he usually does with any kitsch clothing product.

I'm not very interested in the Paleo diet stuff, based on pseudo-science and largely just a way of saying, "agriculture, was it a mistake?" (see all the gluten-free mania). But what sunk the guy was his crazy valuation. I always wonder in these cases if they deliberately sabotaged their own deal because they don't want a deal, just the free advertising.

Daymond seemed like the logical choice for the fishing, with passion for the sport and lots of retail connections, I don't think Robert brings those to the table. But he never budges on valuing his own time (unlike Lori who folded rapidly on that). I think Lori's infomercial idea would be the right way to go, especially if the "fish call" doesn't actually work. :-) But if they believe in it, retail is probably a better route? Anyway, I was thinking the real, serious anglers were thinking "Great, another way for lunkheads to get more of my fish!".

[Amarsir]

Very happy for Robert on that last deal. Smart entrepreneur realized that a guy who's straightforward on valuation might be better than someone trying to squeeze you. He gets skipped over a lot.  (Not surprised though. The kid was smart in a lot of ways.)

"Take my deal now" is generally not good television, whether or not it's a fair request, because the point of the show is to let us see. My only caveat is that we don't get to see how far into the session they are so it's harder to judge if the demand is panic over competition or if they're just frustrated at a lack of response.  If a shark makes an offer and gets ignored for 10 minutes, I don't blame them for wanting to close.

[woodscommaelle]

On October 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM, cooksdelight said:

 I think this thing might wind up being the biggest seller from Shark Tank, ever.

That would be awesome. That kid was cool. I wish him good luck but I don't think he needs it.

I am SO glad they didn't take Lori's offer. She has become insufferable (though she probably always has been...I'm just noticing it now).

Edited October 2, 2016 by woodscommaelle

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

I loved the magnet lady but hated her product. It seems geared toward 1) college students who aren't allowed to put nail holes in walls with their Bob Marley/Scarface/Megan Fox posters or 2) moms, like her, who have a cache of rotating kid art to display. You can see the outside magnets and it just looks tacky. I'm renovating and decorating a new house so I'm super-sensitive to such things just now. Discovering products that can hang flat-backed art has been my most recent and life-changing revelation. But they leave small nail holes because I am a grownup.

It's not just college students who aren't allowed to put holes in walls. Adults who rent can also have that limitation. I didn't notice you could see the magnets on her product though, I would not want to use that.

[theatremouse]

Yeah the look was remarkably like having push pins in the corners...sans holes.

[hkit]

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

It's not just college students who aren't allowed to put holes in walls. Adults who rent can also have that limitation.

True - that sucked for me when I unexpectedly found myself renting (short term) a few years ago. But even then, I don't think I'd be a user of this product. I can't pinpoint when it happened, but sometime between my college days and being in my 40s, everything that is on my wall is framed. It does seem this product would be best for a younger audience or parents. 

[basiltherat]

Mark was the one who bought the entire lock, stock and barrel of the stick-on party ties ladies inventory and company.  The lapels could work for sports fans, or for proms where you can personalize for a single occasion.   Guy in red suit had the second worst-fitting suit we have seen -- the first being the guy who looked like a leprechaun who actually sold suits.

17 year old fishing genius, meet 16 year old coding genius.  Object:  Ten years later, the smartest babies in the world!

I just saw an ad for "Paleo" frozen dinners at WalMart, so there goes the ninja gourmet's company into the crapper.  I never understood the whole caveman worship -- they had bad (or no) teeth, lived in a damn cave, and died before the age of thirty!  That's a goal anyone can achieve on a Cheetos, Twinkies and Boone's Farm diet!

[Amarsir]

1 hour ago, basiltherat said:

I just saw an ad for "Paleo" frozen dinners at WalMart, so there goes the ninja gourmet's company into the crapper.  I never understood the whole caveman worship -- they had bad (or no) teeth, lived in a damn cave, and died before the age of thirty!  That's a goal anyone can achieve on a Cheetos, Twinkies and Boone's Farm diet!

Have you SEEN the price of a decent cave in Manhattan these days?

More seriously, "caveman" is just the marketing. The underlying appeal is matching your diet to evolution and the lack of processed food therein.

[Jersey Guy 87]

On 9/30/2016 at 10:59 PM, mjc570 said:

 Why did the fish caller thing need an infomercial?  It seemed pretty straightforward to me, but I don't fish. 

Fishing products like this tend to have infomercials to get the word out about them.  I think part of the reason they went with Robert was because he called the kid the smartest 17 year old he had ever met (or something similar to that thought).

20 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I just saw an ad for "Paleo" frozen dinners at WalMart, so there goes the ninja gourmet's company into the crapper.  I never understood the whole caveman worship -- they had bad (or no) teeth, lived in a damn cave, and died before the age of thirty!  That's a goal anyone can achieve on a Cheetos, Twinkies and Boone's Farm diet!

See, that's a sign of how much we've evolved.  I made it way past thirty on Cheetos, Twinkies and Boone's Farm.

The lapels were tacky.  If I go to something that requires a tux I'll spend the money to rent a tux and look like I belong there.

The woman with the magnets did a good job getting a deal on her terms with the right shark but I think fun tack works just as well and is already on the market.

[ae2]

The lapels were tacky, but they are the perfect kind of silliness that a high schooler would want to wear to his prom. That is a huge market for them. I'm not sure the entrepreneurs were willing to embrace the fact that they are not a serious product though.

The $50-$100 price point is probably a little high form proms, but I could see them selling big time for $25.

[needschocolate]

I could see using the magnet thing for displaying kids' artwork, and I could see babies swallowing or choking on those little magnets.    

The Ice Age guy's offer was so out of whack that I thought he didn't an offer, he just wanted free advertising.  

 

On 9/30/2016 at 7:49 PM, KaveDweller said:

Wow, the Sharks were really obnoxious with the "tell me your answer now or my deal goes away."  I hate when they pull crap like that, especially when other Sharks seem to have legitimate offers.

I don't like the "take it now or I am out" bullying either.  The only times i am willing to overlook it is when the shark offers exactly what was asked and the others, who had enough time to make offers, start asking a bunch of questions and showing interest.  It doesn't usually happen that way.  

And they are so random about it.  Sometimes they want a decision instantly, and other times the pitchman asks if it is okay to hear fromthe others and they have no problem waiting. 

On 10/1/2016 at 9:55 AM, starri said:

I always thought the point of fishing was not the catching of fish, but the drinking of beer while waiting for the fish.

Yeah, but you have to bring how a few fish every once and a while or your spouse may start suspecting that you are having an affair.

On 10/1/2016 at 10:03 AM, Jamoche said:

My knowledge of men's suits ends with admiring them when they're worn well, but the rust-colored lapel guy looks too small. Especially in the recap screenshot showing his back - it shouldn't pull like that when he's barely reaching forward at all, right?

I turned to my husband and said, I wouldn't take fashion advice from that guy.  It looked like he was trying to prove you could use the lapels to make your bar mitzvah suit look good  by actually wearing the suit he wore to his bar mitzvah (disclaimer, I don't know if he is Jewish, but it looked a the right size for him when he was about 13).

Do most high school boys own a suit to attach the lapels to?  I would think there would be a market at tux rentals places - customize the tux you are renting .  

[psychoticstate]

57 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

The Ice Age guy's offer was so out of whack that I thought he didn't an offer, he just wanted free advertising.  

 

That's what I thought too.

I did check out his webpage and the meals actually look pretty good.  If you buy 14 or more,it's free shipping, which isn't a bad deal.  And the size makes it sound like it could be a meal for 2, so the $10-11 price tag apiece isn't terrible. 

I used to have a woman that lived by me that prepared Paleo meals.  I would purchase from her 3-4 meals a week so I would have a lunch ready to take to the office so I wouldn't have to worry and they were Paleo.  She would bring me the meal(s) each morning in a little lunchpack/cooler. It was a good deal while it lasted, until she moved away.  

So I could see his meals working, especially for busy professionals who don't have time nor want to shop and cook.  He should not have come in with that valuation though. 

Regarding the magnet lady, she had a great pitch and personality.  I buy these Velcro-ish things at Home Depot or Amazon. An adhesive attaches to your wall and the back of your picture frame and then you "attach" with the Velcro.  Have had no problems.

The kid with the fishing lure was a great speaker and he knew his facts.  I'm glad that they chose Robert and Lori got the shaft for once. Although I did feel sorry for Daymond, the actual fisherman of the group.

[saylubee]

The magnet lady needed to make the magnets decorative so they became part of the art.  I think the idea is a good one for tweens and college students, but I don't think the market is really there for adults.  I also sideeye her claims that they won't ruin walls.  All the Command products just destroy my paint.  I highly doubt she's achieved something they can't.  She'll make millions off the impulse purchase though.

I think there are a decent amount of markets for the lapel guys.  Branded uniforms, high schoolers at Prom/Bar & Bat Mitzvah's/Quinceañera, theme parties/weddings, etc.  I think they'll fail if they try to focus on a serious tuxedo replacement.  I could absolutely see my husband wear something like that to his company holiday party where they have to look nice, but are encouraged to be festive.

The Paleo guy had to be looking for advertising.

The fishing guys took the right deal.  Many times the Sharks have said they would be customers, but not investors.  I really think Daymond thought that his love of fishing was worth an extra 10%.  Robert only has to make three calls to Academy, Gander Mountain, and Bass Pro Shops/Cabela's (now one company!). It really is the type of product that needs to get into the sports stores in time for the holidays.  Their sales this year should entirely be wives buying this for their husbands.  Then if it actually works the husbands will spread the word to all their friends to sustain it.  It doesn't need infomercials or QVC.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Yeah the "take it or leave it" type of negotiation tactic is annoying, but it is, what it is. It kind of shows to the presenter that there probably is a better offer out there though, as it would seem to tip the shark's hand, that he wants to be the investor badly, but doesn't want to pay more. Maybe they should make the rules more clear, that if a shark uses a tactic like that then they are still free to withdraw the offer after everyone submits their pitches, but if they don't, then the shark can't change the offer if everyone else drops out.
I think the fishing people did hear Daymond's offer, and in fact he reiterated he wouldn't change his offer even though Lori and Robert made better offers, and they obviously felt that Robert was the one to go with because he was willing to put his money where his mouth was about the valuation being good and give them their asking price right off the bat.
I am kind of confused on why the counter-offer by the magnet lady was so good, especially when Kevin gave her so much leverage by giving her the asking price, and I think it was Daymond had actually undercut Lori as well in his offer. Based on the magnet lady's counter, the money from Lori is a full loan, in other words, needs to be repaid, so pretty much Lori is getting potentially 20% of the company without adding any of her own money into the company right?

[starri]

11 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Based on the magnet lady's counter, the money from Lori is a full loan, in other words, needs to be repaid, so pretty much Lori is getting potentially 20% of the company without adding any of her own money into the company right?

From the woman's perspective, at worst, she's getting the exact same deal Lori was offering.  But if she's confident about hitting her numbers, she ends up retaining more equity.

[Amarsir]

2 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I am kind of confused on why the counter-offer by the magnet lady was so good, especially when Kevin gave her so much leverage by giving her the asking price, and I think it was Daymond had actually undercut Lori as well in his offer. Based on the magnet lady's counter, the money from Lori is a full loan, in other words, needs to be repaid, so pretty much Lori is getting potentially 20% of the company without adding any of her own money into the company right?

Lori's putting money in. She's just getting it out again. But at some point, all the investors get their money out. (If the business is successful.) The difference here (in addition to the 1 year time limit) is that Lori gets her money out before the entrepreneur does. So there's a break-even point of $900,000 in withdrawn profit:

20% equity for investment: Lori gets $180k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (80% of $900k).
10% equity for loan: Lori gets $100k in loan return + $80k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (90% of $800k).

So if this business is indeed successful, this will pay off in the long run. If it doesn't turn a profit then it's a worse deal. (And I think as stated, it's still a loan even if not repaid in a year and Lori gets 20%. Which would be worse than the offer.)

[marny]

The biggest benefit to the magnets over all of the other means of hanging stuff is the "art" doesn't get damaged.  No pin holes, no putty stuck to it-- those Velcro things don't peel off of paper without tearing it. Plus, the magnet things are supposedly reusable. It's also perfect for dorm rooms where the walls may not be made of drywall. Our dorms had painted cinder block walls-- nails or push pins didn't work. We had to use that putty stuff that dried up after about 2 weeks and stopped sticking. Same for any home/room that has brick walls.  And no, I'm not an investor or a customer. :)

[theatremouse]

1 hour ago, marny said:

The biggest benefit to the magnets over all of the other means of hanging stuff is the "art" doesn't get damaged.  

The above is exactly why as soon as she demoed it I was put off. Maybe if we'd seen more of the pitch it would've been clearer sooner than this really is just a "kids drawing" or posters on bedroom wall type problem she's solving, but the look of the magnets giving the impression of pushpins (as discussed above) means this product is not for anything that might actually be construed as "art". Something I would hang with a push pin is probably not something I care about having a pinprick hole in it, but the wall is a separate issue. So it's already limited down to a certain type of hanging. I immediately wondered why 3m hooks didn't come up in the discussion when she said there was "nothing like" her product but she's clearly not going after folks who want to hang, say, a framed painting on a wall without nailholes. She's specifically going up against push pins and tape or putty that can leave a mark on the wall or the paper. That's the real issue: this is about getting paper on a wall. I'm not saying she doesn't have a market, and clearly she's doing quite well, but this thing has a smaller pool of application than I thought it did during the first 30 seconds of her pitch.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

  20 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I am kind of confused on why the counter-offer by the magnet lady was so good, especially when Kevin gave her so much leverage by giving her the asking price, and I think it was Daymond had actually undercut Lori as well in his offer. Based on the magnet lady's counter, the money from Lori is a full loan, in other words, needs to be repaid, so pretty much Lori is getting potentially 20% of the company without adding any of her own money into the company right?

Lori's putting money in. She's just getting it out again. But at some point, all the investors get their money out. (If the business is successful.) The difference here (in addition to the 1 year time limit) is that Lori gets her money out before the entrepreneur does. So there's a break-even point of $900,000 in withdrawn profit:

20% equity for investment: Lori gets $180k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (80% of $900k).
10% equity for loan: Lori gets $100k in loan return + $80k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (90% of $800k).

So if this business is indeed successful, this will pay off in the long run. If it doesn't turn a profit then it's a worse deal. (And I think as stated, it's still a loan even if not repaid in a year and Lori gets 20%. Which would be worse than the offer.)

Thanks for the number breakdown, and it probably is not hard for her to meet the 100K in revenue and maybe push around some other debt to make sure they keep it at 10%. I guess I was just thinking the short-term impact with much lower dividend amounts in the short term).

[Kel Varnsen]

On 04/10/2016 at 0:37 AM, Amarsir said:

Lori's putting money in. She's just getting it out again. But at some point, all the investors get their money out. (If the business is successful.) The difference here (in addition to the 1 year time limit) is that Lori gets her money out before the entrepreneur does. So there's a break-even point of $900,000 in withdrawn profit:

20% equity for investment: Lori gets $180k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (80% of $900k).
10% equity for loan: Lori gets $100k in loan return + $80k in dividends. Entrepreneur gets $720k (90% of $800k).

So if this business is indeed successful, this will pay off in the long run. If it doesn't turn a profit then it's a worse deal. (And I think as stated, it's still a loan even if not repaid in a year and Lori gets 20%. Which would be worse than the offer.)

Plus if the business is having any kind of success couldn't the woman either get a loan somewhere else or sell off some more equity at a higher valuation and use that money to pay off Lori? It would seem to me that Lori only ends up with 20% if the business fails.

The suit thing seemed kind of dumb, since for them to work well you already need a nice suit. So how does that save any money?

[theatremouse]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus if the business is having any kind of success couldn't the woman either get a loan somewhere else or sell off some more equity at a higher valuation and use that money to pay off Lori?

It would eat valuable airtime to get into it, but I'm guessing the contract would actually stipulate that as something she can't do. Plus she'd still have Lori as a partner so if Lori weren't cool with that as a potential way of preventing her from taking 20%, then you have a pissed off partner. Presumably the details of the deal would be worked out in advance so that both know the full upsides, downsides and possible outcomes and are OK with it. So even if the loan scenario were allowed, in theory Lori is aware of that and doesn't object. Plus depending on how well or not well it's going, she may not want additional debt so it's a matter of (when the time comes) if she'd rather cling to the equity or find a workaround to not giving it up. But the way she said it did sort of imply she thought there was zero chance she wouldn't pay it back in that time and thus the equity was really just a carrot to guarantee and not something either of them really expect to happen.

[Amarsir]

7 hours ago, theatremouse said:

It would eat valuable airtime to get into it, but I'm guessing the contract would actually stipulate that as something she can't do. Plus she'd still have Lori as a partner so if Lori weren't cool with that as a potential way of preventing her from taking 20%, then you have a pissed off partner. Presumably the details of the deal would be worked out in advance so that both know the full upsides, downsides and possible outcomes and are OK with it. So even if the loan scenario were allowed, in theory Lori is aware of that and doesn't object. Plus depending on how well or not well it's going, she may not want additional debt so it's a matter of (when the time comes) if she'd rather cling to the equity or find a workaround to not giving it up. But the way she said it did sort of imply she thought there was zero chance she wouldn't pay it back in that time and thus the equity was really just a carrot to guarantee and not something either of them really expect to happen.

Which raises a question I've wondered about before: If you walked into the Tank and said "I'm seeking zero dollars, offering some equity in exchange for a Shark partner's expertise", what's the fair amount of equity? I figure 5% for a minimal-effort consultation phone call and the occasional sales or supplier meeting.

[theatremouse]

I don't think they're allowed, and I think the Sharks would probably not consider doing business with someone since it's basically the flip of the balk at the "ridiculous valuation", it's a "nothing valuation". Plus the whole "must get the amount they ask for" bit is totally negated if it's a $0 ask...

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 10/3/2016 at 2:16 PM, psychoticstate said:

I did check out his webpage and the meals actually look pretty good.  If you buy 14 or more,it's free shipping, which isn't a bad deal.  And the size makes it sound like it could be a meal for 2, so the $10-11 price tag apiece isn't terrible.

A lot of the meals are either 411 or 418 calories.  That's nowhere near enough for two people. 

I don't know much about paleo.  I would assume that Crossfit types need to load up on calories to keep up with their exercise.  That's going to be expensive at $11 for 400 calories.

 

On 10/3/2016 at 7:07 PM, Saytura said:

Robert only has to make three calls to Academy, Gander Mountain, and Bass Pro Shops/Cabela's (now one company!). It really is the type of product that needs to get into the sports stores in time for the holidays.  Their sales this year should entirely be wives buying this for their husbands.  Then if it actually works the husbands will spread the word to all their friends to sustain it.  It doesn't need infomercials or QVC.

100% agree.  It had "Christmas present" written all over it to me.

[Auntie Anxiety]

The magnet product was pretty much the exact same concept as the eyeglasses holder from a number of seasons ago. I think Lori was in on that deal too. If I remember correctly, you pinned a magnet to your shirt, there was a magnet that attached to the frame of the glasses and you could take off your glasses and hang them on your shirt for easy access. That guy's product was very successful, I think.

In addition to Staples, she could sell the product in The Container Store, Michael's, Home Depot, campus bookstores.....clearly I've been spending much too much time thinking about this.

[ClareWalks]

The Paleo diet WAS "the hottest diet trend" five years ago. It, like nearly every single fad diet in memory, has fallen by the wayside. The reasons are obvious to me. 1) Eating like cavemen to be healthy? You mean the cavemen that only lived to age 30? and 2) I'm pretty sure cavemen did not eat butternut squash lasagna, FFS. I rolled my eyes that entire damn segment. I also don't trust the nutritional knowledge of anyone who claims that their diet contains fruit "but no sugar." Do you KNOW what fruit is, dude?

[Jamoche]

On 10/5/2016 at 2:29 PM, theatremouse said:

I don't think they're allowed, and I think the Sharks would probably not consider doing business with someone since it's basically the flip of the balk at the "ridiculous valuation", it's a "nothing valuation". Plus the whole "must get the amount they ask for" bit is totally negated if it's a $0 ask...

They've dropped the "must get the amount they ask for", even in the reruns. Since that was never true, I'm guessing it was done by the same sort of person who writes the back-cover summary of books, which never match the contents there either.

[hkit]

23 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

The Paleo diet WAS "the hottest diet trend" five years ago. It, like nearly every single fad diet in memory, has fallen by the wayside. The reasons are obvious to me. 1) Eating like cavemen to be healthy? You mean the cavemen that only lived to age 30? and 2) I'm pretty sure cavemen did not eat butternut squash lasagna, FFS. I rolled my eyes that entire damn segment. I also don't trust the nutritional knowledge of anyone who claims that their diet contains fruit "but no sugar." Do you KNOW what fruit is, dude?

I don't want to evangelize paleo to anyone, because hey, we are all adults and can make our own choices. I chose paleo because once I cut out certain food types, I had chronic issues clear up and I've never been healthier. The caveman worship is ridiculous. Cavemen also didn't have air conditioning or birth control, but I don't see any of these meathead idiots running to give those things up. But I did want to correct you - Paleo is not "no sugar". It's no processed or refined sugar. Big difference. I consume a lot of fruit. I also consume honey, maple syrup, and agave as sweeteners. Plenty of sugars in all of those things.

But you are right about the eye rolling and choice of food. The butternut squash lasagna was an odd. It's very starchy. Some people on Paleo handle the starch well, others don't. It isn't a meal that would be universally appealing to the small segment of people who would be his target market. 

Edited October 9, 2016 by hkit

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, hkit said:

But I did want to correct you - Paleo is not "no sugar". It's no processed or refined sugar. Big difference.

No argument here! I was referring to that guy's pitch, in which he said "no sugar." I actually think the principles behind the diet are quite sound (it's basically just "eating clean"), I just hate it when opportunists like this dude slap the Paleo label on weird recipes and think they can charge a fortune for it.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, hkit said:

The butternut squash lasagna was an odd. It's very starchy. 

I thought they're using thinly sliced butternut squash in place of the starchy pasta sheets you would use in traditional lasagna - wouldn't that significantly cut down on the starchiness? I'm just guessing, since I don't eat paleo myself, but I've made a similar dish with zucchini strips before, and it wasn't starchy at all.

Edited October 9, 2016 by chocolatine