S03.E01: Flashpoint

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Barry is living his dream life – his parents are alive, he’s asked Iris West on a date and he can finally be a normal guy as Central City has another speedster, Kid Flash, running around saving the city. When Barry starts forgetting parts of his old life, the Reverse Flash taunts his nemesis and tells him that there will be serious repercussions for Barry and the ones he loves if he continues to live in this alternate universe. In addition to losing his memories, his powers will also start to fade. When disaster strikes, Barry must decide if he wants to continue to live in this world as Barry Allen or return to his universe as The Flash.

Promo:

[Trini]

Clip with Barry and Eobard:

[Trini]

Barry, Kid Flash, and The Rival:

[Primetimer]

And an old enemy is there to gloat about it.

View the full article

[Sandman]

Is anyone else disappointed that Billionaire!Cisco's version of S.T.A.R. Labs is called Ramon Industries, and not, oh, I don't know, Cisco's Systems?

C'maaaaaan.

[CocoaGoddess]

This show is a mess. 

[Scarlett45]

What happened at the very end?!!! I saw the Barry that came to save his mom disappear and then what?

[Jediknight]

Oh Barry, you have to stop yourself completely from being there.

[Lantern7]

Barry is lucky he's a likable dork. Otherwise, he wouldn't have any fans.

I'm going to try and overlook extraneous stuff like Cisco becoming a billionaire and Caitlin being a children's eye doctor. I'm thinking this "Flashpoint" was a lot less messy than the miniseries. I'm still hoping that Rip and Sara pop by to smack him upside the head a few dozen times. Barry is such a putz.

Hi, Patty! Bye, Patty!

I know the guy in the stinger isn't going to be a Big Bad, but it's fun to see Flash Rogues get put on the show.

ETA: Thanks to Barry's decision, Nora got about five seconds of hope before she got killed. Way to go, Barry!!

[pinkle6]

Barry is so clueless he wouldn't even know how to get a clue.

He has no idea what to say to people when they're not the versions of the people that he knows. He makes a mess in every timeline/Earth no matter what.

The Reverse Flash was absolutely right about everything. Barry has no idea what he's doing. The Reverse Flash then tells Barry that using his speed changes his memories, and what does Barry do, use his speed?!? *facepalm*

I'm glad they didn't go back to where everything is hunky dory. Barry deserves to face some long term consequences for his reckless actions.

[SimoneS]

Why did I watch this? I am sucker for punishment. I cannot stop hoping for something different. These time jumps and changes are such lazy and predictable writing.

Edited October 5, 2016 by SimoneS

[johntfs]

At some point they're going to need to use TARDIS technology to make room in that house for all the thousands of Barrys and Eobards that will eventually show up to replay that moment in time.

Edited October 5, 2016 by johntfs

[sking24450]

I liked it.  I especially liked that Barry doesn't get to mess everything up and go back to his timeline.  I feel sorry for Barry's friends because he is messing with their lives constantly by the constant timeline changes to make himself feel better but I'm hoping that the writers are interested in actually having Barry suffer consequences this time.

I'm intrigued by everyone potentially being angry at Barry because something like this was sorely needed after he did this again.

I'm actually interested in where they go with this and how long they will play this out.

[Sandman]

1 minute ago, johntfs said:

At some point they're going to need in use TARDIS technology to make room in that house for all the thousands of Barrys and Eobards that will eventually show up to replay that moment in time.

The writing for this show is the Reverse-TARDIS: it feels smaller on the inside than it looks on the outside.

[TV Anonymous]

Where is the non-Flash Barry Allen of the alternate timeline?

One of the worst and meaningless episodes of the series, I might say.

[sking24450]

5 minutes ago, johntfs said:

At some point they're going to need in use TARDIS technology to make room in that house for all the thousands of Barrys and Eobards that will eventually show up to replay that moment in time.

Yeah, that moment is going to get super confusing.  I'm confused if S1 Barry even exists in that moment anymore.  Because in the S1 finale Barry is waved off but that moment changed in the S2 finale to no wave.  So not sure where we are with that moment.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I'm going to try and overlook extraneous stuff like Cisco becoming a billionaire and Caitlin being a children's eye doctor.

Yeah, I'm not quite so willing to overlook that.  Not that I expected better of this show. Of course Cisco gets his own set, playa music and a model hanging on his arm but Caitlin gets...a kid friendly lab coat.  I guess nobody ever claimed the Flash didn't play favorites. 

 Also nice to know that without Barry's love, Joe is a washed up drunk.

[cambridgeguy]

Barry was in the flashpoint universe for weeks (months?) and he never bothered to do a wikipedia search on the city?  It also seems a bit out of character for him to do absolutely nothing and let Wally save the day.  Barry's not the type who constantly whines about how much of a burden his abilities are, so even if he's doing it on the sly he should have been helping out.

Barry just saw Wally impaled because he turned his back on the Rival, so of course he does the EXACT same thing.  Good thing Joe had recovered from his drunken stupor.

Alex Desert (the police captain) was the third main character on the 90s show so it's about time he made an appearance.  I wonder if he'll be taking over for Captain Singh.

[TobinAlbers]

'My money needs me' made me laugh a little too hard.

And I've done a complete 180 on Wally from S2. Love him as Kid Flash with a little personality. Yes he was cocky. It hopefully that will be trained out of him in the true/final timeline when he's Kid Flash alongside Barry.

I really, really, really wish they had surprised us with some mention of Thomas Wayne or the anniversary of the death of young Bruce Wayne. Loads of ways to name drop them in but an interesting quick way could've been a news blurb mentioning the recipient of the Bruce Wayne Memorial scholarship and/or have Henry Allen having been med school chums with Thomas and he reacts to how devestated Thomas still is after all these years and he could never imagine losing Barry like that.

Did Barry forget all his learnings from his original timeline? Totally possible given his Swiss cheesing memory. I only ask because defeating The Rival wannabe Weather Wizard should've been a piece of cake. 

Eobard Thawne really is a bastard. Damn.

Bustling Cisco Industries had a really empty parking lot.

Also anytime Barry comes stumbling into a room looking confused and bewildered and hugging people, the group should automatically ask 'What the BLEEP did you go/do, now?'

Edited October 5, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[Trini]

Alex Desert as Captain Mendez! Yessssss!

Surprised that it took Barry that long to ask Iris out. And even though he changed his mind halfway through, I had a hard time believing that he would just be okay with another Flash doing all the crimefighting.

Next lesson Barry needs to learn: boundaries, man! He kidnapped/transported several people several times in this episode.

Did they have to make The Rival's cowl so ugly?

About the ending: really, show? So Barry and Wally are cool with Joe, but Iris is estranged. Come onnnnn.

[benteen]

Dopey happy go lucky Barry actually annoyed the hell out of me during the first 20 minutes or so but I liked this episode as it went on.  Loved Wally and Iris being partners in crime stopping.  Alternate Cisco was fun.  Matt Letscher was great as the Reverse Flash.  I didn't recognize Alex Desert until afterwards but that was pretty awesome too.  I liked him on the original Flash and he was good here.

The Rival I liked too.

[Trini]

And another Barry/Iris kiss doesn't exist anymore... Why, show, why?

[quarks]

So, that was muddled:

Good things:

1. Cisco and Caitlin brought some much needed humor to the episode. In related news, Flash, you should probably let Caitlin/DP joke more frequently. 

2. Barry and Iris had some cute moments.

3. Liked the Alchemy reveal so far.

4. The Alex Desert cameo was also fun.

Questionable things:

1. For about two minutes there I had hope that Iris was actually going to get to do something besides just saying nice encouraging things to Barry. I mean, come on, show: you just told us that she's working as part of a crime-fighting team with her brother! And what did you have her do? Spend the rest of the episode saying nice encouraging things to Barry!

2. I wasn't the first/only person to notice this, but why was the parking lot of Star Labs so empty given all of the people inside?

3. Speaking of all of the people inside, I know they were all being hush hush about Team Flash and that Caitlin is the Team Doctor, but given that Wally was, you know, dying, why didn't anyone - hi, Cisco! - check to see if any of the Cisco employees were also medical researchers, or barring that, find another doctor in this timeline?

4. Is this the end of Kid Flash? Because I have to say, right now I'm liking Wally as a hero much more than Barry.

5. Though that said - you have two speedsters against one speedster. Why weren't you both going after new speed guy?

6. How many Flashes and Reverse-Flashes will poor Mrs. Allen end up seeing by the end of this show?

Bad things:

1. Despite knowing that Wally is dying, Barry decides to head off and waste valuable time confusing/upsetting his parents because he needs to say goodbye to them emotionally.

2. And once again, Barry changes the timeline and the lives of his friends without talking to most of them about it.  Yes, I know Wally was dying, and at least this time he did talk to Iris and Reverse-Flash about it, but still: Barry, this is not like choosing a cup of coffee for someone without asking. This is you deciding that Cisco is better off helping you save others with Team Flash instead of being a billionaire. And, maybe, but what gives you the right to decide that?

3. So if I understood the dialogue correctly, Barry was in the new timeline for three months and yet completely failed to a) check to see what happened with Star Labs, b) check to see what happened to Caitlin, c) didn't realize Cisco was a billionaire and yet d) tried to claim that he and Cisco were destined to be friends. If you were actually friends, Barry, you would have checked on him!

4. On a related note, WTF was with all of the kidnapping your friends, Barry? Can someone speak to Barry about this, hopefully with fists? 

5. Speaking of the kidnapping, nitpick: We have a scene where Iris and Not Exactly Team Flash yet, discussing the Rival, and then, instead of helping to track down the Rival, we see Iris relaxing at Jitters with some coffee, just so Barry can kidnap her and show her his speed. There were other ways to reach this narrative point, Flash, that did not include a reporter abandoning her crime fighting superhero brother to chill for a bit.

6. And also, while I'm the first to argue that superheroes need vacations too, Barry basically just let Kid Flash speed around for three months while he stalked Iris? 

It's one thing for the Arrow or Legends of Tomorrow crews to do crap like this. But Flash keeps trying to tell me that this is the story of a hero, while having its protagonist run around kidnapping his friends, changing their pasts/presents without asking them, and standing aside while another hero attacks the villain. None of this is heroic, show. It really, really isn't. 

[bmoore4026]

See, Barry?  See what being a selfish douche gets you?  You destroyed a shit ton of lives.

One is all the people of the Flashpoint universe, which got erased when everything got reset back to the status quo.

Two is the relationship between Joe and Iris.

You're a motherfucker, Barry.  I can't wait for that Alchemist guy to kick the shit out of you next episode.

I did feel like crying (just a little) when Barry said goodbye to his parents, though.  At least Earth 2 Daddy Flash is still around.

And I do admit that Flashpoint reality Cisco fills a suit very nicely.

Edited October 5, 2016 by bmoore4026

[ParadoxLost]

Viewed solely as a self contained episode, I liked it well enough.  I was entertained.

It is a complete waste of time that makes no sense when viewed within the wider series.

It sums up to the show trying to absolve Barry of his stupid.  They want Flashpoint; but they also want to be able to say that Barry learned his lesson, tried to set everything right, and this is all really Reverse Flash's fault.

Among the things that made no sense:

- The loss of his memories and Wally's impending death didn't really seem like enough to have Barry decide to let both his parents die considering. 

- Iris being willing to give up her existence for something that she vaguely thinks feels right isn't realistic. 

[thuganomics85]

The Flash is back!  Yay!  More of the greatest battle ever on television: one of the most likable actors on the planet taking on writing that makes his character one of the most immature, selfish people on the planet!  Seriously, I'm more impressed with Grant Gustin each episode, because he really is the only reason I don't find Barry to be the most hatable character in this DC Universe.

At least he finally (finally!) sees the errors of his ways and fixes the timeline, but it still took him three damn months to do so, all while he let some other guy take over as The Flash (so much for giving that much of a damn about saving people), and then stalking Iris and even using his powers to manipulate her to go on an "iced tea" date.  I mean, I guess I was suppose to find that romantic, but stuff like that kind of creeps me out. And even looking past all that, is their a worst liar then him?  Kid has no poker face.

The Flashpoint characters were kind of fun, although it is pretty telling that Flashpoint Cisco become a billionaire genius, while Caitlin is a kid's eye doctor.  Not that it isn't a noble job and she helps people, but I got the sense I was suppose to find it amusing that she is a lowly doctor, while Cisco is Mr. Moneybags, with the tech and women.  I did like Joe being a drunk, angry cop, since Jesse L. Martin seemed to be having fun playing him.

Matt Letscher was on point tonight.  The Reverse Flash was probably my favorite thing about this episode.

The Rival sounded familiar, so I thought he would be a past character, but I see that it is Tom Lasance, who played Cesar on Spartacus!  They really have gotten almost every former actor on that show to play a role either here or one of the other DC shows.

The timeline has been kind of fixed, but now Iris is distant from Joe and Wally?  To the point that Joe can't even hear her name without getting angry?  Hmm...

Maybe this will be the season where Barry finally learns something!

Harry better get back here soon.  Was missing Tom Cavanagh and all his snarky, smirky glory!

[Lady Calypso]

Time travel is confusing.

So, of course Barry's in Flashpoint for three months and only just starts getting side effects and he starts regretting his choices. How did he not do any type of research or know about Cisco beforehand? Did he just live in a bubble in the police station/his house/Jitters? 

I swear if Barry doesn't learn anything this time around, I may have to agree with Eobard Thawne that he's totally the villain instead of an absolute moron. 

I liked The Rival. He was a fun villain. 

I did like that Iris knew about Kid Flash and was working with Wally. As many problems as this episode had, Iris was not one of them. She was great with what she was given, even if she was handed the Prop Barry baton. I also liked Wally. He was a good hero. 

Barry wouldn't have changed anything if it wasn't for Wally dying and him losing his memories. 

Eobard was great; I really liked his presence with Barry. He's a good rival for him. 

So, the first effect of Flashpoint revealed is Iris being estranged from the family. Well, that's just great. How the hell did that happen now? And what other changes are there? Maybe Cisco will still be rich. This is going to get confusing now as they explore what has been retconned with the past two seasons (especially when it comes to the crossovers). 

All in all, it was a good self contained episode, but not good for the series in its entirety. But hey, comic book fans may be happy, so there's that. 

Goddamnit, Barry! 

[Trini]

They really could (should) have stretched Flashpoint for another episode, at least. To explore the differences/changes to the timeline, Barry's new state of mind and memory loss, and I really wanted to know more about how the West family turned out so different. Iris and Wally were a crimefighting team! I need to know more! Wally as Kid Flash was great, and I need to see more of that later this season.

[maczero]

You know the Flashpoint timeline didn't seem so bad.  Other than Joe being an alcoholic, this seemed to be the perfect world for everyone.  

[Last Time Lord]

I liked it, but wish that we stayed in the AU a little bit longer.

I want to know how this is going to affect the other CWDCU shows, if at all. If not, then what was really the point?

[ParadoxLost]

But the thing is that we are still in an AU.  So this was just a bottle episode and there was no point to dragging it out.  They just skipped from an AU where Barry intentionally changed stuff to one where Reverse Flash, predictably, did something to prevent his death/win.

Edited October 5, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[netlyon2]

I really hope that Iris and Joe are estranged because she became a cop against his wishes in this timeline. That would be awesome.

[BkWurm1]

40 minutes ago, Trini said:

And another Barry/Iris kiss doesn't exist anymore... Why, show, why?

This is kind of hilarious.  Even their end of last season intimate porch chat probably didn't happen since this Iris wouldn't be at Joe's in the first place. 

[sking24450]

2 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

But the thing is that we are still in an AU.  So this was just a bottle episode and there was no point to dragging it out.  They just skipped from an AU where Barry intentionally changed stuff to one where Reverse Flash, predictably, did something to prevent his death/win.

It just hit me that this is another timeline because RF seemed to be okay with how things were.  So now someone else has messed with the timeline and Barry has to deal with the consequences.  I like it.

[scarynikki12]

30 minutes ago, quarks said:

But Flash keeps trying to tell me that this is the story of a hero, while having its protagonist run around kidnapping his friends, changing their pasts/presents without asking them, and standing aside while another hero attacks the villain. None of this is heroic, show. It really, really isn't. 

Well put.

Incidentally, quarks, you could reserve the "And, Now,_____" slot of your Flash recaps for Barry himself.  I think he's earned it at this point.

I know that Joe needs Barry's love and affection to keep from becoming a drunk, as Wally and Iris clearly aren't enough, but I absolutely ADORED AUJoe being mean to Barry.  It was amazing. 

For a few minutes there Iris was an important part of the A-plot without having to do cheerleading duty.  That went away fast.  Good job getting back to normal, show, we wouldn't want her to seem like her own person or anything.

I did love Wally as Kid Flash and I hope that sticks around once Barry actually fixes as much of this as he can.

With only this episode to go on, I will say that I wish more time had been used to focus on why Barry would make that decision.  He put everything at risk to go back and save Nora so going back needed something equally major as a catalyst.  With the right focus, it could have been some kind of chain reaction that wouldn't have occurred (or not in the same way) if Barry hadn't tampered with the timeline.  Then his decision could have been truly poignant.  Hell, Barry fixing the timeline because he's no longer The Great Hero of Central City would be more believable given how hung up he is on his title.

Instead we just have things like last season with Barry choosing his parents over his friends only to turn around three months later and choose his friends over his parents.  It almost feels like Barry is really uncomfortable with grief and people having feelings and, rather than see a therapist or at least express said discomfort, just uses his powers to change things so that HE doesn't have to deal. 

[Pete Martell]

Can anyone tell me who played the detective Barry was talking to early in the episode? He looked so familiar to me. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I wasn't a fan of quite a few things tonight, but since it was the season premiere, I'm willing to give it a couple more weeks to see how things shake out.

Barry really sheltered himself so much that life didn't exist outside of  home(parents)/job & Iris?  That's just really fricking sad, man.  I get that having Ma&Pa back was the reason for doing in the first place, but he literally knew nothing about this new reality's CC or world in general.  And was it me, or did they make it seem like Barry was just then finding out about the Kid Flash when the news flash broke his concentration on approaching Iris in the teaser?  Do the writers believe us that stupid that we could imagine Barry had never heard or known about KF before then!?

And Reallllllllly getting tired of the WestAllen kisses getting wiped from existence, too.   If this is the writers' version of WT/WT with a Flash-spin on things, they can just quit, like sooner than immediately.  Its not even remotely the least bit humorous anymore, and quit being so after the first season instance.

[ParadoxLost]

Can someone recap the last scene?  I don't really care about getting a spoiler on Alchemy or whatever comic reference is being made.

I just need to know 1) if the guy someone we've seen before and 2) was he alone in bed.

Because seriously these dark scenes and my imperfect recall of the show/actors other than the mains in the most recent season and a tendency to speculate make me think I see things that don't actually happen.  I'm pretty sure I didn't actually see Iris in bed with Eddie or Rival because someone would have posted 'OMG' by now.

But darned if I know enough about the comics to know why anyone would make that the tag scene otherwise.

[Trini]

2 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I just need to know 1) if the guy someone we've seen before and 2) was he alone in bed.

1) The guy was The Rival/Edward Clariss(sp?) , and 2) there was a woman sleeping next to him.

[TwistedandBored]

I am kinda of bored with all the Alt. Universes. For once, I would like Barry to deal with things in real time. So, we will see how episode two goes before I put this in the binging category. 

Also, I really want Cop Iris too. CP is so badass and looks amazing holding a gun. 

[ruby24]

I have a separate, somewhat more shallow problem with Barry/Iris's kisses, and that's that they're too damn short. Seriously, they're like little pecks. Let them show some passion!

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Where is the non-Flash Barry Allen of the alternate timeline?

That's what I don't understand -- there should be 2 Barry Allan's when Barry goes back to the future with Eobard Thawne's limp body.  

The Barry Allan that grew up in this alternate universe with two loving parents -- and time-traveling Barry Allan.  So where was the other one ?

It's confusing since we have seen Barry go back in time -- and he auto-magically replaces his past self.  And we have also seen him time travel to times when there were multiple versions of Barry at the same moment in time (seriously, that house is getting crowded with all the Flashes inside it).

So, will Barry find a way to go back to his original timeline ?  Or will he stay in this slightly modified version of his original timeline until he finds the decision point, goes back to fix it, and makes things worse ?

[ruby24]

Is Barry going to get replacement memories from this new timeline then? There was a Barry there until he showed up and replaced himself.

[Trini]

Argh -- I wanted the either Barry or Iris to move out, but not like this, show!

[ParadoxLost]

21 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That's what I don't understand -- there should be 2 Barry Allan's when Barry goes back to the future with Eobard Thawne's limp body.  

The Barry Allan that grew up in this alternate universe with two loving parents -- and time-traveling Barry Allan.  So where was the other one ?

It's confusing since we have seen Barry go back in time -- and he auto-magically replaces his past self.  And we have also seen him time travel to times when there were multiple versions of Barry at the same moment in time (seriously, that house is getting crowded with all the Flashes inside it).

So, will Barry find a way to go back to his original timeline ?  Or will he stay in this slightly modified version of his original timeline until he finds the decision point, goes back to fix it, and makes things worse ?

Seriously, I would like Barry to chalkboard the complicated version of this.

I'm still trying to work out

1) Reverse Flash was wiped from existence nearly destroying the fabric of the universe

2) Flash apparently didn't kill RF at the end of last season, he brought him back to the future where he'd been killed/wiped from existence to hold in a cage for 3 months

3) When RF goes back to kill Barry's Mom, the other RF fades away

4) Reverse Flash decides to return to Barry's present timeline because reasons.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

It almost feels like Barry is really uncomfortable with grief and people having feelings and, rather than see a therapist or at least express said discomfort, just uses his powers to change things so that HE doesn't have to deal. 

I think that's the essence of this show: like the Jedi (of the prequels), Barry is fundamentally unprepared to deal with grief or other messy emotions. This has never made a character heroic.

[CabotCove]

ONE OF THE BEST HOUR OF TELEVISION!

If the premiere is  a sign then the show is back to its  awesome season one roots

WestAllen was an amazing unit, the actors' chemistry continue to blossom. 

They also worked really well with Wally, making an awesome trio, Keiynan has been given more to work with and is  killing it

Another one killing it, is the actor playing Reverse Flash, he is my favourite RF not the other guy

Cisco and Caitlin were funny and it was interesting to see their flashpoint lives

 

Quote

But hey, comic book fans may be happy, so there's that. 

Well there was no Wonder Woman/Aquaman's world war, governement imprisoned Superman or Thomas Wayne as Batman but I for one enjoyed the premiere and its different, smaller take on Flashpoint

Edited October 5, 2016 by DCLeague

[Kromm]

51 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Reverse Flash decides to return to Barry's present timeline because reasons.

A powerful force in so much TV writing: "Reasons"!

[Lady Calypso]

Actually, that brings up a good point. So, does that mean that Eobard Thawne is alive? If he went to Barry's present timeline (because I guess he got his powers recharged or something?), that means that Eobard never became Harrison Wells, which means Harrison Wells should technically be alive in Possible Season 3 AU Flashpoint so shouldn't Barry not have powers since he shouldn't now technically get them until 2020? And if that's the case, shouldn't Barry's father still be in prison and not dead? And with Iris estranged, does that mean that she's had no contact with Barry or is it just with her father? 

Yeah, time travel sucks. There are too many plot holes to think about here. If someone could explain what I might possibly be missing here, that would be fantastic. Just because Nora Allen is dead, it doesn't mean that everything's fixed. I would assume that Eobard would have had to go back in time and then experience the exact same events again, which would mean that he didn't get his happy ending that he assumed he would. But he kind of just peaced out and I guess we were supposed to assume that he....what? Went back in time to live out that timeline? I guess he would have to, in order for all the events to happen as they did. 

The only person I felt sorry for was Nora. Poor woman had to experience several Flashes and RFs within a span of a minute. I assume that Barry will, at some point, have to go back to before any of the Flashes or RFs came to correct the timeline to get it back to his own timeline. Which, essentially, could also mess it up more if he's not careful. But I assume he won't just accept Iris/Joe being estranged for years, even if he can correct it in this new timeline that he's in. 

[TDT]

I'm guessing that these changes will stick at least until the big show crossover in December..

Wouldve been nice to have a mention of Thomas Wayne(but i guess Batman and related hero characters are off-limits,thanks to Fox and Gotham..)