S08.E22: Reunion Part 2

[Natalie68]

5 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm disappointed that Dorinda hasn't been asked about Lu and Tom calling her, recruiting her to lie, then Tom threatening to cut her out of Lu's life, and then hanging up on her.   This all came from Dorinda's mouth.   I want her questioned while sitting next to Lu. Maybe part three.

I had a completely different feeling about that interaction.  I think Dorinda is "the mutual friend" that blabbed to Beth that Jules came on the show to get divorced.  I thought when Beth said - you think I should stay out of it - it was a loaded question.   I think Beth was saying - you're the one who told me her business, maybe you should have stayed out of it.  And I think that's the true reason Dorinda shut that down hard.   I have no problem seeing slurring, spitting, manic arm-waving Dorinda spilling this news to whoever could interpret her drunk-talk. 

THIS says more to me about Tom than his wayward tongue.  To me it says he is a controlling asshole who likes to bully to get his way and give ultimatums.  I have been with my husband over 26 years (married 25) and he has gotten into my business ZERO times (he did come between me and my bully ex-landlord who looked like he was going to slug me but THAT is it).  

I think Dorinda has been the one telling EVERYONE'S business and that was B's way of saying push me further and I am busting this wide open.  My impression of D is she is THAT person who tries to buy their way into friendships by giving all the salacious deets on others.  All done with a smile and drunk arm waving.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Natalie68
needed to finish my thoughts.

[ElDosEquis]

Here is the way you measure a 'sense of humor'?

You sit down with your beard and laugh about the taped replay of you losing your shit.

 

Ah, to what fuckery, twattery and moral lows some people sink?

[jaync]

Quote

I feel like Bethenny is seriously mentally ill.

Or...

+  

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Do people still actually believe that a judge is going to take this heavily-edited, oftentimes fake, completely unreal reality show into consideration when deciding a child custody case? I thought this idea was debunked ages ago.

One would think, but sadly no. You must have missed the comments earlier that maybe Beth might lose custody of her daughter because she was snitching about the drug use of her co-stars. Apparently the thinking among some was that a judge would yank a kid away from her mother because the mother had co-workers who maybe did drugs. And over the last two years there have been dozens of other situations/edits/things that Beth has said that have had people salivating over the idea that perhaps a judge would look at the footage and actually remove her daughter from her care because of it. People will believe/pray for a lot of bad things, especially when they really hate someone and hope that bad things happen to them. Over a reality TV show. Go figure. 

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

One would think, but sadly no. You must have missed the comments earlier that maybe Beth might lose custody of her daughter because she was snitching about the drug use of her co-stars. Apparently the thinking among some was that a judge would yank a kid away from her mother because the mother had co-workers who maybe did drugs. And over the last two years there have been dozens of other situations/edits/things that Beth has said that have had people salivating over the idea that perhaps a judge would look at the footage and actually remove her daughter from her care because of it. People will believe/pray for a lot of bad things, especially when they really hate someone and hope that bad things happen to them. Over a reality TV show. Go figure. 

I believe the assertion was about Bethenny becoming a naming names about drug dealers/users and the possibility that she might be endangering herself and her child by being a snitch.  Which might be cause for a change of custody. It wasn't about the drug usage per se, but the possibility of her becoming a target of unsavory people.  It is all for not because Bethenny took the high road and decided not to ruin families.  She just rated which franchise had the highest usage of cocaine and retweeted Madame Paulette's is a front for cocaine distribution. 

I don't think it is about hoping for something bad, I believe it is pretty much common sense that people who rat out drug users and their dealers are at greater risk than say someone who just spews profanities.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Jules has to walk.  This show has done nothing for her divorce and custody arrangements.  It was bad, just bad.  Your honor she can't even make a cup of tea what makes you think she can feed them?  She has never gotten these kids to their expensive private school on time.  How can we trust her to pick them up?  She doesn't need a nanny.  She only uses the nanny as her personal assistant.  Yeah, she needs to get off quick.

Carole, Ramona and Sonja have no story line because the Countess hijacked the season and is now hijacking the reunion.  But they have to keep someone around to do the 'I told you so' dance. 

This is a tough call for who stays and who goes.

Custody is a funny thing, Michael married Jules with her issues, the children seem pretty healthy, I am pretty certain in Manhattan there are a fair number of people who have always had people who do their cooking and cleaning.  Camille Grammer had quite a staff of nannies and a cook.  We saw one scene with Jules saying she likes her nanny to give her blow outs.  Nothing wrong with having personal assistants, Bethenny has had one since Season 1.  I am always amazed when someone is awarded something outrageous like $40,000.00 in a monthly clothing allowance.  Obviously Jules needed a nanny the husband wasn't watching the children when Jules was out of town on business.  Jules is somewhat entitled to maintain the lifestyle she is accustomed to in her marriage.

I think Ramona and Sonja tagged their storyline on to Luann.  Ramona's biggest storyline was running around and using the term "re-gift" incorrectly.  Then she attached herself to Bethenny's fibroids and of course Tom.  I wasn't certain where Sonja's storyline was going.  She seemed to attach herself to Tom as well.  Carole storyline was about the books she did not write.  One can say Luann hijacked another might say Luann saved the season.  There was a whole lot of nothing.   

Edited September 8, 2016 by zoeysmom

[Celia Rubenstein]

48 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe the assertion was about Bethenny becoming a naming names about drug dealers/users and the possibility that she might be endangering herself and her child by being a snitch.  Which might be cause for a change of custody. It wasn't about the drug usage per se, but the possibility of her becoming a target of unsavory people.  

So I guess all those people who actually show up in court to testify against drug dealers, mobsters, gang members, random violent psychos or anyone else who might possibly want to retaliate against them can pretty much kiss custody of their children goodbye if their ex wants to make an issue of it.  Yeah, I'm thinking not.

Seriously, are people afraid that Dorinda will put out a hit on Bethenny and little Bryn will get caught in the crossfire? So Jason ought to run to the courthouse and file for custody? Seriously? That's just ... wow.

And it's actually a pretty ugly thing to suggest about Dorinda when you think about it.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Gam2]

Ramona was a non-entity this season. As was Carole. As was Sonja. Loved Jules, tolerated LuAnn. Despised Betthany(or however she spells her name). She is vile, hateful and mean. No wonder she's Andy's BFF. I won't watch anymore reunion shows (if there are any)or next season. This is not fun anymore which is why I tuned in to the first few seasons. Done, Andy. 

[motorcitymom65]

3 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

So I guess all those people who actually show up in court to testify against drug dealers, mobsters, gang members, random violent psychos or anyone else who might possibly want to retaliate against them can pretty much kiss custody of their children goodbye if their ex wants to make an issue of it.  Yeah, I'm thinking not.

Seriously, are people afraid that Dorinda will put out a hit on Bethenny and little Bryn will get caught in the crossfire? So Jason ought to run to the courthouse and file for custody? Seriously? That's just ... wow.

That's actually a pretty ugly thing to suggest about Dorinda when you think about it.

It is all so ridiculous, it's hard to even form a response. But I am telling you, people were serious about the fact that Beth could lose custody of her daughter over this. 

[motorcitymom65]

53 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I believe the assertion was about Bethenny becoming a naming names about drug dealers/users and the possibility that she might be endangering herself and her child by being a snitch.  Which might be cause for a change of custody. It wasn't about the drug usage per se, but the possibility of her becoming a target of unsavory people.  It is all for not because Bethenny took the high road and decided not to ruin families.  She just rated which franchise had the highest usage of cocaine and retweeted Madame Paulette's is a front for cocaine distribution. 

I don't think it is about hoping for something bad, I believe it is pretty much common sense that people who rat out drug users and their dealers are at greater risk than say someone who just spews profanities.

There were many crazy assertions, but one that got a lot of buzz was that by outing Dorinda, she was admitting that she "associated" with people who did drugs, which might put her custody in jeopardy. Someone mentioned hoping that the judge was paying attention to the fact that Beth was admitting that she "knew" people who did drugs and that this alone might make a judge give full custody to Jason. Thankfully, many people came forward to suggest that the fact that a person worked with folks who did drugs shouldn't mean that they should lose custody of their children. If that were the case, most of us would have had someone come in and take our kids away.  The shit got seriously crazy. 

[zoeysmom]

15 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

So I guess all those people who actually show up in court to testify against drug dealers, mobsters, gang members, random violent psychos or anyone else who might possibly want to retaliate against them can pretty much kiss custody of their children goodbye if their ex wants to make an issue of it.  Yeah, I'm thinking not.

Seriously, are people afraid that Dorinda will put out a hit on Bethenny and little Bryn will get caught in the crossfire? So Jason ought to run to the courthouse and file for custody? Seriously? That's just ... wow.

And it's actually a pretty ugly thing to suggest about Dorinda when you think about it.

Well Bethenny whined about being on the run from the mob when her step-father couldn't pay his gambling debts. Obviously it does have an effect on children. So I am thinking just a good idea to stay on the right side of the law and second, don't get involved in other's business or make public allegations about others' drug use and drug dealing. 

I never said Jason should run to the courthouse, I am pointing out that in contentious custody situations don't get involved in possible  criminal prosecutions for sport.

[Celia Rubenstein]

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Well Bethenny whined about being on the run from the mob when her step-father couldn't pay his gambling debts. Obviously it does have an effect on children. So I am thinking just a good idea to stay on the right side of the law and second, don't get involved in other's business or make public allegations about others' drug use and drug dealing. 

Bethenny's stepfather was deeply involved in criminal activity (illegal gambling) that resulted in him owing a lot of money to the wrong people. That's why he was on the run.   

That is a far cry from Bethenny sitting on the fancy couch vaguely implying Dorinda indulges in a line or two once in a while. I certainly don't recall her accusing Dorinda of being a dealer.  I seriously doubt Bethenny is going to have to go on the lamb with Brynn to escape from Dorinda.

Damn y'all, the bar for fearing someone is gonna rub you out is set pretty low around here, lol.  I better do a better job of getting my garbage can out of the driveway after it's been emptied.  I've noticed my neighbor giving it the side-eye and I don't want him to firebomb my house, lol

Edited September 9, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[SweetieDarling]

53 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

It is all so ridiculous, it's hard to even form a response. But I am telling you, people were serious about the fact that Beth could lose custody of her daughter over this. 

I think it would be more realistic to think her custody might be in jeopardy because of her own behavior this season, rather than outing alleged drug use in her coworkers.  Does she scream like that and use that much profanity and vulgar language around her daughter?  She exhibits no compassion or genuine caring about anyone other than herself and her business on the show.  How bad is she in real life, behind closed doors?  Like someone mentioned a few episodes ago, God help Bryn if she spills grape juice in that sterile white apartment.

[Trooper York]

Bethenny will never lose legal custody. She has too much money for that. She could shoot somebody in Macy's window and still keep her kids.  Custody is rigged for the woman no matter what so there is no danger that anything that happens on the show will change it.

What is a lot more likely is that her behavior will make her daughter want to leave her and spend time with her Dad and his normal everyday family.  See Tamara on Orange County. The kids make up their own mind. I know people don't realize  it but they are people too.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Trooper York

[yourmomiseasy]

11 hours ago, Ki-in said:

I guess we're not going to get reunion highlights from Carole's stellar season: dog shit in a cup, lying about her dog being a service dog, fawning over Adam and buying him expensive camera equipment, getting hung up on face time, bringing and unwanted terrarium, arguing over the plot of all things to a cookbook, not knowing how to work a blender, fostering a kitten, not grooming her dog for a photo shoot so the dog looked a mess, a stupid dog wedding and planning her break up with boy wonder. She really brought it this season. 

 

When you see it all listed out like that it is pretty hilarious in a sad way.  Thanks for the chuckle.

11 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

So, as a champion of "truth" and the right for people to issue hurtful statements, can we assume Bethenny will not take umbrage if (when) any of her exes, her mother, her daughter or business associates make comments in the media or to her surgically revised face about any of B's short comings as a human?  Of course not!  The truth spewer rights only apply to Bethenny. 

It's so frustrating when I hear rude, ignorant, selfish sociopaths announce "I tell it like it is" or "I'm allowed to say how I feel" or "I speak the truth & if you can't handle it then you can't handle me". You can't enrobe a ball of shit in chocolate and tell me it's a bon-bon.  It is not appropriate or acceptable to say anything or everything you feel or think!  We teach children that it isn't polite to hurt peoples' feelings for Christ's sake!  There is a difference between throwing verbal barbs with intent to hurt vs. truth/opinion statements. There is a thing called tact.  See also; empathy, courtesy, restraint, discretion. 

Luann may not be Mother Theresa, but she makes her own adult choices to live how she wants to. If she screwed all of Manhattan per Bethenny, so what?  If she's decided it's more important to be married to a player than to acknowledge his dodgy past, that's on her.  That decision isn't hurting anyone of her cast mates (yes, that means YOU  Miss Five Fucks) or society in general.  Her kids are grown and won't be treating Tom as a father figure, so they aren't affected either.  So, it is no one's business but Lu & Tom's. Why Bethenny has such a hard on about Luann is beyond me.  She keeps harping on Lu's sex-tivities and what a horrible, evil person Lu is.  I'm not seeing it.  Lu didn't handle the Carole/Adam thing well and went off the rails at some imagined slight to her niece's honor.  So, B can be resentful of that on her BFF Carole's behalf, but it doesn't explain the deep seated hatred  or B's campaign to destroy Luann.

And Bethenny's treatment of Jules was text book bullying.  She belittled Jule's short husband (at their 1st meeting) by suggesting he dress as R2-D2 for Halloween.  Then through the rest of the season, she disparaged Jule's marriage, her home, her parenting, her intelligence, her eating disorder and her religious practices all on camera.  Bethenny will do whatever it takes to remain Alpha dog (wolf?) of her TV pack. Ramona, Carole & Sonja have all tucked their tails under and follow their leader. Dorinda has been mostly spared because that woman can bare her fangs enough to make B. think twice about getting into it with her.  Apparently Jules didn't get the memo to act as submissive as possible around B.  Bethenny took Jule's lack of kowtowing as a challenge to her dominance and went in for the kill.  Congrats, Bethenny.  You managed to chase another human being out of your life.

Beth's intro line of "If you can't handle the truth, then you can't handle me." makes me berserk every time I hear it.  It implies that whatever vile bullshit is spewing out her pie hole is the truth and that the only thing wrong with her is she tells the truth and both are so wrong that I just can't deal with it.

8 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I thought Jules handled herself well and looked good.  It drove me crazy that Bethenny claimed that Jules came on this show in order to divorce Michael and then she kept saying that since they were getting divorced, obviously what she said was true.  No, it's not.  Yes, they are getting divorced but that certainly doesn't prove that Jules came on the show for that.  Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.  Maybe she came on the show as a way to get some income, knowing her marriage was going downhill.  Or maybe as a free marketing ploy for her business.  Does it really matter?  Bethenny of all people certainly shouldn't judge on that.

 

Right?  I was trying to figure out the mental gymnastic she must be doing to make that logical fallacy make sense in her head.  I can say "It's hot out because the sky is red" and just because it really is hot out doesn't make my assertion that the sky is red true and even if the sky really is red, that doesn't mean it is what is causing the heat.  

7 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

A few years back on WWHL, when Bethenny was a guest, Andy made reference to Bethenny being Jewish.  She corrected him and said I am nothing.  My father was Jewish and my mother converted to marry him, but my step-father was Catholic.  I don't practice anything and mentioned Bryn was baptized Catholic. So I guess Bethenny is now embracing a return to her Jewish roots since she has a coupled up with a married Jewish man.   

On last night's WWHL episode around minute 17 Bethenny says "You're not going to hell and people have told me, you know, that the Jewish culture is very forgiving about things like that."  And then around minute 28 she says "Oh and by the way, I am also Jewish.  I wanted to mention that based on the previous comment."  It's very confusing to me.  The first statement doesn't sound like it comes from someone that is that familiar with Judaism.  

 

"I really do think that her despicable and tragic behavior speaks for itself.  I think that coming in to to kind of get the stench off of you and attacking someone else with just a complete falsehood was it was so blindside[sic]... I was sick that day, I had strep, I had a 102 fever, and I was like "wha".  I felt like someone came in with a 2x4. Like I was crawling out of a hole that I don't know why someone dumped me in.  It was crazy.  That was really crazy."  -- Bethenny on WWHL regarding Luann.  Minus the being sick part, I'm sure that's how just about everyone that comes in contact with Bethenny feels. 

[ElDosEquis]

Radar Online is reporting that Bethenny Frankel has been offered 2 million dollars to appear on another reality series.

They made the offer for the exclusive rights to her story, after it happens.

"Snapped" executives from the Oxygen Network made the deal because, in their words - "Beth is a time bomb, watching her lose her sh*t in the Berkshires we realized that that bitch is gonna kill someone in a fit of rage and we wanted her to get a chance to tell her side of the story."

A message was left for Frankel to comment on the story, but as of this time no one has returned a call.

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

When you see it all listed out like that it is pretty hilarious in a sad way.  Thanks for the chuckle.

Beth's intro line of "If you can't handle the truth, then you can't handle me." makes me berserk every time I hear it.  It implies that whatever vile bullshit is spewing out her pie hole is the truth and that the only thing wrong with her is she tells the truth and both are so wrong that I just can't deal with it.

Right?  I was trying to figure out the mental gymnastic she must be doing to make that logical fallacy make sense in her head.  I can say "It's hot out because the sky is red" and just because it really is hot out doesn't make my assertion that the sky is red true and even if the sky really is red, that doesn't mean it is what is causing the heat.  

On last night's WWHL episode around minute 17 Bethenny says "You're not going to hell and people have told me, you know, that the Jewish culture is very forgiving about things like that."  And then around minute 28 she says "Oh and by the way, I am also Jewish.  I wanted to mention that based on the previous comment."  It's very confusing to me.  The first statement doesn't sound like it comes from someone that is that familiar with Judaism.  

 

"I really do think that her despicable and tragic behavior speaks for itself.  I think that coming in to to kind of get the stench off of you and attacking someone else with just a complete falsehood was it was so blindside[sic]... I was sick that day, I had strep, I had a 102 fever, and I was like "wha".  I felt like someone came in with a 2x4. Like I was crawling out of a hole that I don't know why someone dumped me in.  It was crazy.  That was really crazy."  -- Bethenny on WWHL regarding Luann.  Minus the being sick part, I'm sure that's how just about everyone that comes in contact with Bethenny feels. 

The allegations about Bethenny dating a married man were not new to her.  An article ran in the Post and Luann was kind enough to link in her blog.  After what a bitch she has been this year, she could not pretend to think it would not come up.  So her clutching her pearls like the allegation had never been made was fairly lame.

[yourmomiseasy]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The allegations about Bethenny dating a married man were not new to her.  An article ran in the Post and Luann was kind enough to link in her blog.  After what a bitch she has been this year, she could not pretend to think it would not come up.  So her clutching her pearls like the allegation had never been made was fairly lame.

That too :)

[ZaldamoWilder]

Jules (sorry, I lost my place, if we're not talking about Jules in this regard, ignore) is probably fine.  Michael didn't want to be with his children when he had to be.    Seriously though, the standard for a mother to lose custody is pretty high.  Chronic abuse, neglect, conditions that meet court definitions of unfit.   Tardiness and poor kitchen skills won't swing it.  Think about the fact that for a time, during her nuttiest phase and video of her infant son riding in her lap in the driver's seat, Britney Spears retained custody of her kids. 

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I want someone to gather all of your posts into a bound book and put it up for sale on Amazon.  You're an artiste 

And thanks to @ISLANDGAL140 because I never knew the word 'biennial' before.  

 

Luanne pronunciation even?  I'm flattered! You're a doll but I just may have to go on a housewives diet.   On Tuesday my dude described a professional competitor as, and I quote, a non-motherfuckin factor.   Soooo, yeah. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Carole, Ramona and Sonja have no story line because the Countess hijacked the season and is now hijacking the reunion.  But they have to keep someone around to do the 'I told you so' dance. 

Will & Grace reference?

Quote

A well-executed "What is wrong with you?" is a thing of beauty.

If any of you are Project Runway fans (I think it was an All Stars season) there was a famous season where there was a horrible, bully person - Helen - who would torture a quiet, keep to her own business woman - Alexandria.   There was a great moment in the reunion where Helen was badgering the witness like usual, screaming at Alexandria, nonsensically and tyrannical, and then Helen finished it off finally by saying something like, "I don't know!  I mean, is it me?  Am I crazy?"  

And in a COMPLETELY unexpected, NOT cliche moment of reality television, Alexandria stared at her with wild eyes for a beat and then said very steadily, "Yeah. Maybe."

IT. WAS. AWESOME.

Another one of my favourites is on Gossip Girl when a crazy model named Agnes starts burning designer Jenny's hand-sewn clothes, and Jenny screams: AGNES, YOU ARE *OUT OF YOUR MIND*!  But that story wasn't as good or relatable here.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[queenjen]

Ms BlueJay what season was that? You just gave me glee because I've definitely not caught that one, I'm working through All Stars from the beginning. 

I think that Part II was the calm before hopefully an explosive Part III. Bethenny with the 'I Can Say What I Want' line. ..we're spiraling into nonsensical here. There are no limits. I'm even beginning to think that Bravo should scrub the entire cast for next year and I did NOT think that 2 weeks ago. 

It hasn't been done before but this franchise has probably come the closest in the season they got rid of Alex, Jill etc. Maybe keep LuAnn as a cameo. .. Dorinda is the only one I think I might miss because she's a weird combination of really smart and Beaker from the muppets after too many Martinis. 

The rest are gone or should be gone. The Beth monster is out of control. It's sick and weird and way too in control of the whole process and it's showing. And we're not appreciating that as an audience. What about the wife from 9 By Design? I'd LOVE to see that family on the teev again! 

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 minutes ago, queenjen said:

Ms BlueJay what season was that? You just gave me glee because I've definitely not caught that one, I'm working through All Stars from the beginning. 

QueenJen, Hi!  Doing some research.

It looks to be Project Runway Season 12.  REGULAR Season.  I was wrong about that sorry.  July 18 – October 17, 2013.

Warning you -- this is NOT a fun season.  But that was a great moment.  I tried to find video but not seeing any yet.

By the way, I adore Dorinda also.  I have a crush on her that's a bit out of control.  Well, now that Jules has gained weight I can't take my eyes off of her either.  I hate making reference to her weight but I don't know how else to put it.  To me they are both so attractive.  In personality and in looks.

Luann looks so much 'harder' at the reunion this year.  Too much Makeup? "Being so in Loooooooooooooooove with your Soulmate"?  The stress of Sonja 5 Times Morgan?  Or the all important Bethateme Factor? I don't know.  I always think Luann is quite attractive in a distinguished way, I just really really don't like the styling for her at the reunion.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[zoeysmom]

Debbie Reynolds did the "told you so' dance. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

LOL, yeah on Will & Grace.  That's what I meant.  She plays Grace's Mom. I am pretty sure the first person to do the 'I told you so' dance on the show was Grace, then they introduce her Mom later.  I watch the show a lot.

[Sheenieb]

Quote

and yes, you are plenty old enough to be Jules' mother. And not in that Emily-Gilmore-is-horrified way, or Afterschool Special "But she's only twelve and pregnant!" way, or the Joy Book "Your Picture Here" way {although you certainly dress for that last one} --  nope, eighteen and legal.  That's how old you are. And it's great. Embrace it.  Be your truest self. An Older Mean Girl.)

I .... don't know. Yeah, sure as an 18 year old, I suppose Carole could be old enough to Jules' s mother, but since I don't typically think of 18 year olds as parents, I'm going to go with Carole being more of an older sister whose parents had an oops baby when she was at college.

[Trooper York]

5 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Jules has a little half smile, that extends to her beautiful eyes,  where if I were a man, I would do whatever it is that men do when they see a half smile like Jules gives. 

That is exactly right. You hit the nail on the head.

That is why Bethenny hates her so much and it is why she had it in for her from the beginning. Just the same way she had it in for Kristen last year. She is so transparent you can read the menu through her nasty hide.

[beesknees]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

It is all so ridiculous, it's hard to even form a response. But I am telling you, people were serious about the fact that Beth could lose custody of her daughter over this. 

I dunno about this.  I have acquaintances who were chronic substance abusers (with kids) and during the divorce process got 100% placement of the kids (often putting them in risky, precarious situations). 

The judges favored my addict friends over their spouses/SO's who had no history of drug abuse.  I mean, what judge with half a brain in his/her head is going to take Bethenny's daughter from her and give primary placement to Jason by relying on rumors and some hacked up, heavily edited, manipulated "reality" TV show that is probably 75% scripted and producer driven at that.  I can't get behind that.  Seems sort of like reaching IMHO but I could be wrong.

Posters weigh in !!!  Plead your case (see what I did there?)

Edited September 9, 2016 by beesknees

[ParadoxLost]

11 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

The other thing that bugged me, is Bethenny demanding that Luann call her "friends" a liar, Lie, lying, liar are strong terms.  One doesn't need to label someone with such a pejorative, people can have different recollections, assign different levels of importance.  Luann is not going to call her fiancé, or her friends liars just to suit Bethenny labels.

Even Ramona and her stupid article, which ran in conjunction with Ramona's press blitz for her flop of a book meant nothing.  Ramona's level of proof so far has been as big a flop as her book.  Here is a picture of someone's palm.  He was wooing me.  First he wooed her then he shooed her.  Ramona have some pride. 

There was a moment, when either Sonja lost track of her next delusion and said, "I don't want to hurt you Lu," and she walked over and gave Luann a hug and Luann said, she wanted Sonja happy and to get married.  Bethenny's comment, "what a weird universe."  So after trying to stir the shit that Luann's a bad person for not believing her friends. or Luann failing to take the bait and calling her friend a liar, Bethenny can't deal.  Sometimes you have to accept friends even if their perception is different than yours.

I personally think Luann is downplaying the Tom/Ramona/Sonja stuff and she knows it.  But she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.  I think she likely knows the truth and doesn't care.  She either accepts they both have a past or her expectations of fidelity in a relationship for both of them aren't conventional.

There were a couple times where it seemed like anything less than breaking it off with Tom was tantamount to calling Ramona and Sonja liars.  But if she flat out says that Sonja and Ramona's relationship were as significant as they proclaim and the other stuff and she doesn't carethen Bethenny gets to scream as Luann for being a whore for not conforming to her expectations.

On a side note, I think Ramona faked the heart picture evidence.  I do think it happened.  But if she had kept the evidence, she would have whipped it out when she first told the story during filming.  I don't know what is worse.  Faking it or taking a photo and keeping it on her phone.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[RHJunkie]

I love how Bethenny defends gossip and ill talk of others by saying 'I can say what I want to say'. Luann and John can say whatever they want too Bethenny. Luann can say that she helped invent SkinnyGirl. And John can say that SkinnyGirl is a rip off of Skinny Cow. How about them apples....how do you like freedom of speech now? Judging by your reaction to both of them, you are very much a hypocrite when you defend yourself and your freedom of speech but then you turn around and verbally assault and insult people who use the same freedom to say something you don't like. And really Bethenny - you want to give side eye to Jules for how she treats the nanny and talking about how she represents Jews - what the hell do you know about that? Probably as much as you know when trying to speak Spanish to get the attention of the employees at your local K-Mart...oh yeah, I haven't forgotten about that. Shut up and fuck off. With so many examples of how Bethenny talks for the sake of hearing her own voice - why doesn't she have to answer for her 'do as I say, not as a I do' attitude? 

Everyone wanted to jump in and talk about Sonja's 10 year relationship as Tom's lover and when Sonja quantified that to FIVE interactions over the course of 10 years, no one bats an eyelash. Sonja didn't give a shit about Tom's life until she found out that he was seriously dating Lu. Now all of a sudden it's worth crying over a man that she only slept with 5 times? Of course when Sonja finally quantified her relationship, none of the women said anything because keeping their silence at least meant that they could focus all of their energies on talking about Tom and nothing on about delusional and exaggerated Sonja's account of things were. 

I thought Ramona came across well when she addressed Luann. She managed to avoid saying something stupid and without filter - which is very uncharacteristic of her. Then she went back to being Ramona when she told Carole let Luann finish speaking, only to jump in 2 seconds later and cut Lu off, haha. 

[UsernameFatigue]

31 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

I .... don't know. Yeah, sure as an 18 year old, I suppose Carole could be old enough to Jules' s mother, but since I don't typically think of 18 year olds as parents, I'm going to go with Carole being more of an older sister whose parents had an oops baby when she was at college.

I think the whole thing about Jules being young enough to be most cast members' daughter is just dumb. Even in my generation (I am 59) most of my friends were going to college at 18 and planning a career, not getting married and/or having children right away. In my mother's generation that was common, but things changed alot a mere generation later. But following the line of reasoning that Carole is 18 years older than Jules and could be her mother, Jules herself could be a grandmother, had she had a child at 18 who then had a child at 17. Wadda ya think about that, Bubbe Jules?

I find Jules and her continual talk of being Jewish to be more of something she seemed to cling to as an identity for the show, and less something that she seems to really live. Several other Howives have been Jewish but didn't need to talk about it constantly but for Jules, there wasn't a lot else there there. I did find her line at the reunion that she is single now so could date Tom, hilarious. Even if you don't want to date him but just play tonsil hockey Jules, he is available. He could be free to date before the end of the year, and if not pretty much certainly within a couple of years. However one funny line a season is not enough for me to care about Jules sticking around. Maybe when you are older you will be more interesting, Jules.

The other funny line was Andy saying how awkward it was on the boat when Sonja and TomCat saw each other. LuLu said something along the lines of what was awkward about it, and Andy said what wasn't? Too funny. At this point though LuLu doesn't care that TomCat is a serial liar. Maybe because LieAnn recognizes a kindred spirit (soulmate and all). Really, in the end those two need to take each other off the market (or as much as either will ever really be off the market) and make the streets safe for the other UES singles.

[Jextella]

It will be interesting to see how LuAnne and Tom are post-reunion.   

[breezy424]

6 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Bethenny has a tv production company and her snapchat shows her dressing up and going in to pitch various shows.  So she may have sold one or two.  She is the producer of the show Food Porn.  I know from my embarrassing admission of listening to Andy's book that Andy has also pitched for a Martha Stewart/Bethenny business type show.  Bethenny is getting major money for RHONY but I bet she walks.  But she may decide she needs a redemption season before she jumps.  I look for her to go to friend of the show.  That's win-win for her.

Jules has to walk.  This show has done nothing for her divorce and custody arrangements.  It was bad, just bad.  Your honor she can't even make a cup of tea what makes you think she can feed them?  She has never gotten these kids to their expensive private school on time.  How can we trust her to pick them up?  She doesn't need a nanny.  She only uses the nanny as her personal assistant.  Yeah, she needs to get off quick.

Carole, Ramona and Sonja have no story line because the Countess hijacked the season and is now hijacking the reunion.  But they have to keep someone around to do the 'I told you so' dance. 

This is a tough call for who stays and who goes.

You can pitch all you want (see scenes of Carole pitching a book with Adam) but that doesn't mean you've succeeded.  Do a google on Food Porn.  Not exactly a household TV show name.  Heck what channel it FYI on?  Never even heard of it.  I'll bet that Bethenny Frankel will be back.  Beth needs the spotlight.  IMO, that's why she ate humble pie and came back to RHNY.  She can't be happy with the millions (no where near $100million) she made with her deal with Beam. 

Jules chose to walk.  I do think she made the right decision.  It's kind of sad because I really didn't like her at first but as the season went on I appreciated her more. This season's  show will not affect her divorce or custody.  We've seen that her children are fed and taken care of. Can the same be said of their father who dropped his children off at his parents so that he can be with his other woman?  Do kids drink tea or coffee?  She did show she can make eggs and breakfast for her children and probably has been very capable of making them a meal.  Yeah, Jules came of pretty dippy about her some of her cooking skills and what she required of a nanny, but the children weren't neglected by her.  And yes, the attitude about preschool was ridiculous.  I don't think that's going to fly in regular school for long.  None of that means she could possibly lose custody of her children.  Michael is the one responsible for breaking his wedding vows.  Not Jules.  I also highly doubt he wants full custody of his children.  Talk about trust.  Michael dumps them with his parents.

Lu didn't hijack anything.  It was Beth, Ro and Sonja who endlessly went on about Tom.  It was Beth who took how many days to tell Lu about the pictures of Tom.  Then we have Sonja going on and on about her ten year love affair with Tom.  Finally, we have Ro going on and on about her dating Tom.  Nope, these are the ones who made the season about Tom, not Lu. 

[WireWrap]

27 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think the whole thing about Jules being young enough to be most cast members' daughter is just dumb. Even in my generation (I am 59) most of my friends were going to college at 18 and planning a career, not getting married and/or having children right away. In my mother's generation that was common, but things changed alot a mere generation later. But following the line of reasoning that Carole is 18 years older than Jules and could be her mother, Jules herself could be a grandmother, had she had a child at 18 who then had a child at 17. Wadda ya think about that, Bubbe Jules?

I find Jules and her continual talk of being Jewish to be more of something she seemed to cling to as an identity for the show, and less something that she seems to really live. Several other Howives have been Jewish but didn't need to talk about it constantly but for Jules, there wasn't a lot else there there. I did find her line at the reunion that she is single now so could date Tom, hilarious. Even if you don't want to date him but just play tonsil hockey Jules, he is available. He could be free to date before the end of the year, and if not pretty much certainly within a couple of years. However one funny line a season is not enough for me to care about Jules sticking around. Maybe when you are older you will be more interesting, Jules.

The other funny line was Andy saying how awkward it was on the boat when Sonja and TomCat saw each other. LuLu said something along the lines of what was awkward about it, and Andy said what wasn't? Too funny. At this point though LuLu doesn't care that TomCat is a serial liar. Maybe because LieAnn recognizes a kindred spirit (soulmate and all). Really, in the end those two need to take each other off the market (or as much as either will ever really be off the market) and make the streets safe for the other UES singles.

I disagree, not everyone goes to college right out of HS. I am also 59, got married at 20 but I didn't have our son until I was 26 (miscarried earlier pregnancy). Most of the women I knew my age were already married with at least 1 kid by their 21st birthday. I went back to college at 36. LOL

22 minutes ago, Jextella said:

It will be interesting to see how LuAnne and Tom are post-reunion.   

Well, so far, they are still planning to get married. She is planning on having 3 different dresses for the wedding/reception. The venue is reserved and the save the date cards have been sent. Soooooo, it looks like they got past his make out session with the Bunny, so much so that Luann has said she may not come back tot he show because her marriage is more important to her and that HW shows are not healthy for marriages. LOL

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sheesh, the dude is supposedly worth 25 mil & now he's crying that he's broke (yeah, right) & he only has to throw Jules a paltry 10 thou a month?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3780651/Jules-Wainstein-awarded-10k-month-estranged-husband-Michael-divorce-hearing-businessman-says-t-afford-it.html

How is he affording that gigantic joint if he's broke?  What a slimy little meatball.  Oh man, Jules can go thru 10 thou in a couple of days.  How is she gonna make that last for a whole month?  Maybe she needs to get some tips from Sonja?  How about nanny interns?

[queenjen]

How will LuAnn and Tom be after the reunion? Bored without a storyline. Real reality. Them living of her money alone will hit home hard and fast. But I feel she's dug her heels in so hard now that the marriage will go ahead. Wedding, rather. There isn't going to be a marriage in any recognizable sense. 

[zoeysmom]

33 minutes ago, queenjen said:

How will LuAnn and Tom be after the reunion? Bored without a storyline. Real reality. Them living of her money alone will hit home hard and fast. But I feel she's dug her heels in so hard now that the marriage will go ahead. Wedding, rather. There isn't going to be a marriage in any recognizable sense. 

Why would anyone think Tom and Luann would be living off her money?  Tom seems to have survived on his own with two homes for the past 50 years?  That has never even been a consideration.

[izabella]

Bethy told us he was broke and a gold digger, so it must be true.

[UsernameFatigue]

54 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I disagree, not everyone goes to college right out of HS. I am also 59, got married at 20 but I didn't have our son until I was 26 (miscarried earlier pregnancy). Most of the women I knew my age were already married with at least 1 kid by their 21st birthday. I went back to college at 36. LOL

Well, so far, they are still planning to get married. She is planning on having 3 different dresses for the wedding/reception. The venue is reserved and the save the date cards have been sent. Soooooo, it looks like they got past his make out session with the Bunny, so much so that Luann has said she may not come back tot he show because her marriage is more important to her and that HW shows are not healthy for marriages. LOL

You actually proved my point. You got married at 20 and had a child at 26 with one miscarriage earlier. To be a mother at 18 you would pretty much be knocked up in HS and giving birth at graduation, if indeed you even graduated. I too had a few friends who did not go to college and instead got married and were mothers by the time they were 21. Not 18. I don't have any friends who were mothers at 18.

[breezy424]

I don't think anyone is saying that Jules being young enough to be someone's daughter is the norm.  What they are saying is that it is possible. That is the point. Heck, I went to a small parochial school (in NYC) and I know of two, one at fourteen and one at sixteen, who got pregnant.  And then there's a couple who got married right out of high school and had a child when they were still teenagers.  

My problem with Carole is that she seems to think that she and Jules are of the same generation.  That's just not true.  I think Carole likes to think of herself that way and the whole thing hit her pretty hard because her boyfriend is younger than Jules.  I don't really care that Carole is dating someone who is young enough to be her son but it is what it is, like it or not.  It was a reality check.

[zulualpha]

7 hours ago, mothmonsterman said:

I feel like Bethenny is seriously mentally ill.  I keep thinking about her walking through the apartment while being filmed; opening doors and crying.  It was so damned strange.  She blows up at things, is super hyper, is nasty, is ultra-sensitive and is just...off.  Her brain truly doesn't process information like normal people.  Everything is someone else's fault, then she acts like she takes responsibility for something, but then tries to explain why she is still completely right, even if she is wrong.  

I feel this way about Ramona.  Something about her is just not right.  Both women can be carelessly vicious and cruel.  Bethenney having someone film her going thru her old apt sobbing is of the same variety as Ramona taking a picture of the heart Tom supposedly drew on her hand.  Both women need physical proof that they're human or at least someone thinks they are.  I was perusing the wine aisle in my local Safeway yesterday and noticed they were selling Skinny Girl pinot grigio.  I will never buy a Skinny Girl product after this season of RH and Bethenney may want to consider how many other women are having a similar reaction to her brand based on the way she appears on Bravo.  Well, to be honest I probably would buy it if it was in the bargain bin for $2 a bottle, I'm cheap like that.  But just seeing the brand gave me an unpleasant feeling.

I really hope they do consider an overhaul of the show after this season.  These women are tapped out.  I would keep Luann because she'll be newly married and that dynamic might be interesting.  What little I've seen of Tom he seems like he'd be a perfect fit (i.e. train wreck) for the show.  Dorinda's entertaining.  Sonya, Bethenney, Ramona and Carole can go.  They add nothing imo and are actively annoying and horrible to others.

[WireWrap]

17 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

You actually proved my point. You got married at 20 and had a child at 26 with one miscarriage earlier. To be a mother at 18 you would pretty much be knocked up in HS and giving birth at graduation, if indeed you even graduated. I too had a few friends who did not go to college and instead got married and were mothers by the time they were 21. Not 18. I don't have any friends who were mothers at 18.

No, not really because I have a number of friends that married and had their first child at 18. Some people do graduate HS before their 18th birthday, I was 16 when I graduated. LOL Without a doubt, Carole is old enough to be Jules and Adams mom (her own mother had kids at a young age) and she shouldn't let that bother her like it did. The comment was tied into Jules "menopausal" comments/digs about these older HWs not acting their age/lack of maturity but was about them fighting like JR HS kids instead of the 45+year old women they are, not about her age/dating Adam which is why I suspect it bothered her. She didn't listen to the whole thing, she only heard the "age" comment and immediately went there in her mind because that is what she/Bethenny would have done to someone else. LOL

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

I feel this way about Ramona.  Something about her is just not right.  Both women can be carelessly vicious and cruel.  Bethenney having someone film her going thru her old apt sobbing is of the same variety as Ramona taking a picture of the heart Tom supposedly drew on her hand.  Both women need physical proof that they're human or at least someone thinks they are.  I was perusing the wine aisle in my local Safeway yesterday and noticed they were selling Skinny Girl pinot grigio.  I will never buy a Skinny Girl product after this season of RH and Bethenney may want to consider how many other women are having a similar reaction to her brand based on the way she appears on Bravo.  Well, to be honest I probably would buy it if it was in the bargain bin for $2 a bottle, I'm cheap like that.  But just seeing the brand gave me an unpleasant feeling.

I really hope they do consider an overhaul of the show after this season.  These women are tapped out.  I would keep Luann because she'll be newly married and that dynamic might be interesting.  What little I've seen of Tom he seems like he'd be a perfect fit (i.e. train wreck) for the show.  Dorinda's entertaining.  Sonya, Bethenney, Ramona and Carole can go.  They add nothing imo and are actively annoying and horrible to others.

I say keep Carole. I want to see who she is without attaching herself to a strong personality like Heather or Bethenny. I do agree, Let Bethenny go and take Ramona/Sonja with her but that isn't going to happen. Bravo will not fire that many HWs ever again, it is why this show (NY) has taken so long to recover in the ratings, they lost to many key HWs at 1 time then had an extended off season (18 months) before it came back on air. I expect that along with Jules not returning, 1 other HW is in jeopardy of loosing her Apple, maybe Sonja, if Luann changes her mind and comes back.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by WireWrap

[UsernameFatigue]

6 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No, not really because I have a number of friends that married and had their first child at 18. Some people do graduate HS before their 18th birthday, I was 16 when I graduated. LOL Without a doubt, Carole is old enough to be Jules and Adams mom (her own mother had kids at a young age) and she shouldn't let that bother her like it did. The comment was tied into Jules "menopausal" comments/digs about these older HWs not acting their age/lack of maturity but was about them fighting like JR HS kids instead of the 45+year old women they are, not about her age/dating Adam which is why I suspect it bothered her. She didn't listen to the whole thing, she only heard the "age" comment and immediately went there in her mind because that is what she/Bethenny would have done to someone else. LOL

Good point about the age of graduation. Where I went to HS (Ontario Canada) at that time there was an optional grade 13 which took the place of the first year of university, so if you wanted to go to university you had to take grade 13. So many were actually 19 when they finished high school depending on when their birthday fell in the year.

I didn't think Carole's comment was that big of a deal. I think most people do not think or feel they are as old as they are, and likely Carole having a younger boyfriend contributes to that. I know my mother in law hates being 82 as she feels 60. I at 59 feel like I am still in my 30s (most days). However the Howives lack of maturity is what keeps them on the show. And Jules has certainly shown a lack of maturity in her inability to do simply things related to her children, and whining about how hard life is without a nanny. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Good point about the age of graduation. Where I went to HS (Ontario Canada) at that time there was an optional grade 13 which took the place of the first year of university, so if you wanted to go to university you had to take grade 13. So many were actually 19 when they finished high school depending on when their birthday fell in the year.

I didn't think Carole's comment was that big of a deal. I think most people do not think or feel they are as old as they are, and likely Carole having a younger boyfriend contributes to that. I know my mother in law hates being 82 as she feels 60. I at 59 feel like I am still in my 30s (most days). However the Howives lack of maturity is what keeps them on the show. And Jules has certainly shown a lack of maturity in her inability to do simply things related to her children, and whining about how hard life is without a nanny. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Graduation does play a role in it. Sadly, the teen pregnancy rates are climbing again in different areas of the country. I graduated early, something my HS allowed if your grades were good enough and you had met all the course credits needed for graduation.

I think Carole believes that when anyone brings up age, they are talking about her/Adam and that is not always true, last season with Luann...Yes, this season.....No and it is a sore spot for her despite her saying otherwise.

 In reality, Jules went from a SAH mom with a nanny to a working mother with no nanny in 1 fell swoop, it would be hard for most women to go through that, not just Jules. All of the HWs that have young kids have nannies (or interns/Sonja) that do the day to day care of their children and I am not sure how any of them would do if their nanny up and quit during filming and the father didn't pitch in/help.

I agree, they all lack maturity to varying degrees and a few, really have no clue how ridiculous they look/are! LOL

[Kareem]

I think the friendship between Bethenny and Carol makes perfect sense. Bethenny is a lot of things but I don't think she's stupid. Neither is Carol.  Not so strange they would gravitate towards each other.  

While at Dorinda's house, you had three grown women in a room who couldn't spell 'pedophile' - LuAnn, Ramona and Jules. Jules seems to have some struggles with daily life, Ramona's odd dialogs and moves are too lengthy too mention and Lulu often appears to have an IQ 10 points less than plant life.   She also can't read a room. She wears the "I'm fun, loud and clueless!" thing like a badge.  

I'm surprised so many people like Dorinda.  She has been an ish stirrer from the jump and works my last nerve.  One example that made me want to smack her was when she said she needed to get to the bottom of the Tom story, interrogated Ramona and then went up on deck to tell Lulu that Ramona was still talking about her time with Tom.  Her taste in men leaves much to be desired as well.  I agree with whoever said that she's probably the one who told Bethenny about Jules' marital problems.  I think Dorinda is a mess.  Have another drink. 

At the reunion, I thought Jules looked beautiful, because she is beautiful.  Sonja looked great, Lulu needs to lose the stupid jumpsuits - especially and including that red lace number she wore at Christmas time that looked like a menstrual cycle, Bethenny looked like a corpse, Ramona needs to lose the tight dresses and her kangaroo pouch and Carol looked typically Carol.   

jmho; ymmv.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by Kareem

[LIMOM]

6 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think the whole thing about Jules being young enough to be most cast members' daughter is just dumb. Even in my generation (I am 59) most of my friends were going to college at 18 and planning a career, not getting married and/or having children right away. In my mother's generation that was common, but things changed alot a mere generation later. But following the line of reasoning that Carole is 18 years older than Jules and could be her mother, Jules herself could be a grandmother, had she had a child at 18 who then had a child at 17. Wadda ya think about that, Bubbe Jules?

It  does not change the fact that Jules and Carole belong to two different age groups and that biologically Carole could be Jules's mother.

There is no shame in admitting that one is older, imo and I say that as someone who is closer to 50 than 40. lol

[LIMOM]

3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

No, not really because I have a number of friends that married and had their first child at 18. Some people do graduate HS before their 18th birthday, I was 16 when I graduated. LOL Without a doubt, Carole is old enough to be Jules and Adams mom (her own mother had kids at a young age) and she shouldn't let that bother her like it did. The comment was tied into Jules "menopausal" comments/digs about these older HWs not acting their age/lack of maturity but was about them fighting like JR HS kids instead of the 45+year old women they are, not about her age/dating Adam which is why I suspect it bothered her. She didn't listen to the whole thing, she only heard the "age" comment and immediately went there in her mind because that is what she/Bethenny would have done to someone else. LOL

Someone in my kids highschool is pregnant. And she is a freshman so it does still happens.

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

It  does not change the fact that Jules and Carole belong to two different age groups and that biologically Carole could be Jules's mother.

There is no shame in admitting that one is older, imo and I say that as someone who is closer to 50 than 40. lol

I think the point was that Jules meant it as an insult. There is no shame in Carole being old enough to be Jules mother.  Just like there is no shame in Lu liking to have a lot of sex. Lu was slut shamed, which isn't cool.  Carole was age shamed, which also isn't cool. At the time Jules made her comment, folks around here were plenty pissed about it. For some reason, Carole is wrong to have an opinion about it. Makes zero sense to me. 

[LIMOM]

Just now, motorcitymom65 said:

I think the point was that Jules meant it as an insult. There is no shame in Carole being old enough to be Jules mother.  Just like there is no shame in Lu liking to have a lot of sex. Lu was slut shamed, which isn't cool.  Carole was age shamed, which also isn't cool. At the time Jules made her comment, folks around here were plenty pissed about it. For some reason, Carole is wrong to have an opinion about it. Makes zero sense to me. 

Meh, it is open season for these girls, too old, too skinny, too rich, too poor....

Jules was responding to the hostile climate.

Carole besides being boring imo is way too touchy about her age as well as in denial.

[Lady Grump]

9 hours ago, zulualpha said:

I feel this way about Ramona.  Something about her is just not right.  Both women can be carelessly vicious and cruel.

I have a theory: it's the self-help industry's fault! [DUN, DUN, DUUUUUUUUN.]

OK, OK, OK -- hear me out.

To be reductive, all those self-help books pretty much say the same thing: You, the reader, are the most amazing person ever; anyone who doesn't agree with you is toxic, so dump them ASAP! If people in your life are going through a hard time, and aren't at their best, DUMP THEM! Toxic! Surround yourself with sycophants! Recognizing one's own faults was/is rarely part of the self-help narrative; neither is genuine compassion. Plus, if you pick a therapist who is mainly in it for the money, they'll blow smoke up your ass, too (like Beth's TV therapist). A "life coach" will almost always tell you what you want to hear (except when you say something that "offends" them, of course -- which can be as minor as, "No, I'm not crazy about that idea."). -- [Yes, yes #notAllLifeCoaches, #notAllTherapists -- I hear ya.]

So, what kind of people has the self-help hoopla created? People like Beth and Ramona. Upper middle class women, with superiority complexes, who fancy themselves "goddesses" and have zero interest in leaving their bubbles, much less becoming better people. After all, the books tell them they're perfect as they are! Why change!?

Yeah, Thanks Obama Oprah. :-)

Edited September 9, 2016 by Lady Grump