S08.E22: Reunion Part 2

[shoegal]

1 minute ago, VioletMarx said:

I don't understand why it would be acceptable to cherry pick any parts of a person's life to insult. Why it is anyone's business how much you weigh or who you date or how much sex you have OR how old you are? It's kind of ludicrous to me that some people think some of these topics are A-OK and some should be off limits. Either you're good with watching people observe their coworkers' lives and say horribly insulting things about them on TV for money or you're not. 

The difference to me is choices people make versus things they don't control.  Like I said before, age to me is like skin color....which would be different than say, your outfit.  I think it's different.  If you don't, that's cool.  MMV and all that.

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

I think this is directly a function of dating a guy young enough to be her son.  That creates a lot of sensitivity because it is always in her face, every time she sees Adam, every time she thinks about having (now, less than) 5 good summers left, when she talked about the cookbook not being published for a year even if picked up now, every single day she is with Adam.  It's a very sore subject for her, and honestly?  I think she would be free of her sensitivity and fear around age if she dumped Adam. 

When I was about 36 or 37, I started dating a guy 6 or 7 years younger than me.  Not really a big age difference, but I was totally self-conscious about being older and what that would mean for us, and it made me FEEL old.  As soon as I ended that, I suddenly didn't feel old anymore.  I just felt like myself and was able to relax about my age.  I'm 48 now, engaged to a man my age, and feel so much better about everything than I did the few months I dated the youngster, lol. 

I truly believe Carole would be a lot happier about her age and herself if she weren't dating Adam.

Mr. Outlier is 10 years younger than I am.  We met when I was 41 and he was 31, and as they would say on RHoNY, "We know each other 18 years."  It was a little weird at the beginning, but I think that was just because it was so outside the norm (which is sooooo ridiculous and unfair--nobody bats an eye when the man is 10 years older than the woman).  But after a few months, it didn't register at all any more, except when certain cultural references come up.  (He didn't really know who Spiro Agnew was, for example, and...Depeche Mode?  Really?)

To be honest, I'm not sure it would be that much different if Mr. Outlier were 18 years younger than I am.  (He's still be too old for a man bun, and therefore in the safe zone.)  I have a male friend about my age whose girlfriend just turned 40 (17-year age difference there); they've been together for about 10 years.  Seems to work for them, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work for me.

 

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Ha!  Very true.  I just think things that are unable to be helped such as age and childed status (for some, some of us choose it) are off the table for ME.  They give us SO much to talk about and make fun of this seems too simple and mean.  Behavior seems more interesting to discuss (or poor fashion sense, these ladies have zero excuse for that).  But tossing out someone is old as an insult (or menopause stuff) seems too easy.  I would like to think we posters are nothing like these cartoon characters in their mean girl behavior.  There is no shame in age despite what some people think.

I'm childfree (by choice) and old (by nature).  If someone tried to use either as an insult, I would just think, "Huh?"   Even my poor fashion sense--if someone threw that in my face, I'd just be inclined to agree.  Clearly I'm not meant for a reality show, but sometimes I wonder if I'm even meant for existence.

ETA:  Actually, that's one reason I watch these HW shows--they are so far outside my world that it's almost like watching science fiction.  Not just the money and social life, but their general behavior.  I don't know anybody who acts like that, and am therefore sickly fascinated.

Edited September 9, 2016 by StatisticalOutlier

[ZaldamoWilder]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 Is it possible that he just doesn't remember exactly how many dates they went on or how many times he/Sonja had sex with each other and is just guessing? I ask this because I don't think guys keep count of these things, especially if they are not serious with the woman. Hell, most guys don't remember important dates, like BDs and anniversaries, with a woman they are head over heels in love with but we expect Tom to remember how many dates he/Ramona had in 1 week and how many hook ups he/Sonja had over a 10 year span when neither woman can keep her count straight. Ramona went from a "couple of dates to 4, then 7, then 12, then back to 4 or 5 and Sonja made it seem like they were hooking up far more than what she said on the reunion but we expect Tom to remember it correctly and match whatever number they give. LOL

Absolutely.  And I think by the time he'd been caught in somebody else's clutches he realized that this is the singular best response a liar can offer, as it is irrefutable.  In the meantime though, ole boy wasn't fast enough on his feet.   See this is my whole problem about the Tom thing and the various rubber plausible excuses we could invent - you don't need to remember the truth, it pops right out.  Making up specific and easily checkable inaccurate details is when it goes badly.  That's like every police-coerced confession ever.   He didn't even claim not to remember after he'd told Lu.   On the boat he said it was once.  Ramona threw him a softball and said oh ok Tom now that you're getting married, it was once, let's go with that.   A thinking man liar or not, would've taken that opportunity to say ok mona it could've been more than that, you're cute and all but I just don't recall.   I know whatever Sonja's number is, he's lying on her too.  They can describe each others' bedrooms.

[KungFuBunny]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I don't think each individual event shows that he's an adulterer but I think if you combine them, and especially if they got Michael's phone records, it shows some dodgy behavior.  What's more important I think are the scenes that showed him not really taking care of or responding to the children.  Where he was sitting around doing nothing or on his phone, or even totally absent, while Jules was parenting, or his parents or the nanny.

If Michael's business has suffered, I have zero sympathy for him.  Maybe he should have considered that before he started cheating on his wife or acting like a little douchebag on tv.  The $10,000 referenced in the article linked a page or so back is also temporary support so it's likely she will get more.  It may also be why she elected not to return to the show next season - - no more Bravo income for her.

Totally mean but also wanted to say that their 3 year old daughter looks to be almost the same height as her a-hole father.  Just saying.

I agree...but this does not prove adultery in a court of law on NY. If Jules uses the footage of herself saying - he's always on the phone, who's he talking to? Then it gives Michael free reign to show the footage of the scenes where he is not on the phone and can also show enough scenes of Jules on her phone. Her saying he's always taking a shower - is hearsay and inadmissible. What footage is there of Michael NOT taking caring care of his children do you mean the 2 phone calls where he is not with them? Michael can then show footage of Jules speaking to Dorinda in the Berkshires saying she forgot to call her kids for 24 hours. When Dorinda asked her since you remember now did you call them? Jules laughs and says no. If they get his phone records - and let's say there are 10 calls a day from the girlfriend - it does not prove adultery in court. Jules has to have records of explicit conversations, video of them entering and leaving hotels, show credit card bills where he's paying tons of money on jewelry and gifts not going to the Wainstein household DURING their marriage. The photos I've seen are from AFTER he filed for divorce so those pics of Home Goods shopping can not be used. In NY it also has to be 3rd party witness and it can not be Jules herself. The 3rd party witness can not be the girlfriends husband since he filed for divorce. I feel bad for her, she was married to this man for 8 years, they share the same faith, she gave him the the perfect family of a son and a daughter. She should get half of everything he has, but I'm kind of thinking he has some aces up his sleeve and may have moved assets some time ago. They've been allegedly working on that McDumpsite for 7 years and they've only been married for 8. Nothing seems "finished" - who knows what the mortgage is on that place. The Manhattan apt...do they own or rent?

[LIMOM]

I thought that New York was a no fault state?

[Natalie68]

45 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

What exactly is "higher" on this show? You're watching a show about people hitting below the belt and you're picking one spot they should avoid? Everything they hurl at each other is vile.

So you're good with fat jokes. That's not low hanging fruit. Got it.

While commenting on this show is not high brow by any stretch of the imagination, I would like to think adults could think of something other to say than shit about biological functions that we cannot control.  

I don't like commenting on weight either.  It made me uncomfortable when they were railing on John because he didn't fit a certain mold.  I wouldn't rail on anyone who was struggling with too low of a weight either.  But I will rail all day long on the shit Lu tried to make us believe.  I will also talk smack about her clothing line.  I think it looks cheap and not very fashionable.  I also think people railing on B for how she acts is fair game.  I like her most of the time but I don't know her in person and realize we all see things in others that some don't.  Lu and B deserve much of the shit they get by their actions alone.

[Trooper York]

New York is a no fault state and nothing on the show is going to matter. Jules is going to get custody and support based on Michael's income. As long as she has a competent divorce Lawyer and a forensic account she will be fine. This back and forth is just posturing and I am sure the judge will ignore  all of it. In fact the more he leaks to the press the worse it is going to be for him. Judges are notoriously adverse to bowing to public reports. His best bet is to offer a generous settlement and get out of Dodge and off the radar. And TMZ. And Tamara Tattles. And Reality TV. And Previously TV. Nothing good can come of dragging it out. He needs to end it quick. If he is smart.

If he is as stupid as Bethenny it will drag on for years. You see some people always think they are the smartest person in the room and they can manipulate anything. It's not that easy.

I know it is a cliché but he should think of his children. All of this crap goes on his permanent record.

[Celia Rubenstein]

37 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Wouldn't the witnesses put forth THEIR version of the story?  I think of witnesses as neutral until they express something else.

Not to disparage people who do the hard and often insufficiently rewarding work of serving others, but I would not rely on the word of the Regency waitstaff (who depend on the goodwill and tips of people like Tom) to show up and tell me the truth about what went on that night. I actually think it is really rotten of him to put those employees on the spot whether they were going to be telling the truth or not.  And the likelihood that Tom may have pressured them to show up or provide a less than honest version of the night's events only underlines Tom's level of treachery to me.  The whole thing is just unsavory.  The unsavory act of an unsavory person asking people at a power disadvantage to do unsavory things.  The waitstaff, Dorinda, Sonja - all people at a power disadvantage that Tom was willing to exploit to further his goal.  

What a shit bag. Thank goodness Dorinda had too much sense to be a part of something like that. And how sad Sonja didn't ...

Quote

Was Tom wrong for saying Luan would not be friends with her-probably, but I think the reality is, that in their real lives, Dorinda may not be a part of their lives. 

That may well be true.  But it was not losing Luann's friendship that was the real basis of Tom's threat. 

The reality is that shutting each other out of filming is the biggest weapon most of these women have to use against each other.  That is what Tom was doing.  He knew very well his threat was not about cutting Dorinda off from her dear friend Luann.   It was about cutting Dorinda out of filming.  That was the real threat he was implying.  Same thing with Sonja, who desperately needs that paycheck she would get from the wedding episodes.

What a slimy little toad Luann is in bed with.  How can she not see it? How can she not care? 

[rhygirl720]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

The only reason Bethenny wouldn't shop at Marshall's is because she has an endorsement deal with TJ Maxx/Ross/Home Goods.  Her clothing not so much but her house is filled with TJMaxx?Home Goods stuff.

Marshall's, TJMax and Homegoods  are owned by the same company. I would assume Ms. Brand savvy know it all would know this?

[Nanny pants]

Sad thing.  Bethany seems to hate women as much as Andy does.

[ScoobieDoobs]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

IAs for LuMan, I'm surprised there is so little disgust here towards her behavior this season. I found her to be absolutely unbearable this season and I hope she gets the boot but I doubt she will now that she is shedding her bullshit title to marry this little shithead.  Those two delusional asshats are a match made in heaven and deserve the misery they will inflict on each other. Couldn't happen to a harpier Ho'wife if you ask me.  The whole act of OMGTomWantsToMarryMeeeeeImGettingMarriiiiiiiiied was so fake. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is a plot device to keep Lu on the show.

Idk, I didn't find Lu "unbearable" this season.  Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of hers.  I've always found her more ridiculous than annoying.  I just couldn't get worked up or irritated by her hypocrisy & phony-baloney crapola the way Bethenny was (and is).  Here's the thing -- I don't disagree with Bethenny on much of what she says about Lu.  She is a hypocrite & a phony & a liar & just generally not a nice woman or one to be trusted in any way.  She's interested in herself first & foremost, and she is what Bethenny called her years ago -- a snake.  

The prob is, Bethenny was so off in her delivery of what she was trying to say about Lu (and to her).  The name-calling & slut-shaming & her scary aura (with her intensely screechy rage) mostly turned Lu into a victim of a really terrifying bully.  And that's it -- because Bethenny is so terrifying in her presence on the show, and clearly nobody has the guts to tell her to tone it the fuck down, this is what happens.  Her message gets muddled because everyone connected to this show is so fearful of her.  Don't they have a right to be?  She just said she might choke someone -- and that's just Lu.  Who knows if she would choke others too?  Bethenny admitted she would commit violent acts.  So who can blame the cast, crew, producers and Satan Andy if they're all trembling in fear of her & truly terrified of Bethenny?  Bethenny is a frightening woman now.  And I don't say that lightly.  She really, really, really scares me.

Ah, well, this is the show we're left with watching.  Bethenny rules as a ruthless dictator with endless power & the rest cower in fear of her.  This is what's gonna continue on for next season?  How awful.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[WireWrap]

46 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Absolutely.  And I think by the time he'd been caught in somebody else's clutches he realized that this is the singular best response a liar can offer, as it is irrefutable.  In the meantime though, ole boy wasn't fast enough on his feet.   See this is my whole problem about the Tom thing and the various rubber plausible excuses we could invent - you don't need to remember the truth, it pops right out.  Making up specific and easily checkable inaccurate details is when it goes badly.  That's like every police-coerced confession ever.   He didn't even claim not to remember after he'd told Lu.   On the boat he said it was once.  Ramona threw him a softball and said oh ok Tom now that you're getting married, it was once, let's go with that.   A thinking man liar or not, would've taken that opportunity to say ok mona it could've been more than that, you're cute and all but I just don't recall.   I know whatever Sonja's number is, he's lying on her too.  They can describe each others' bedrooms.

Yes, if he didn't remember he just should have said so but I think he also knew Ramona/Sonja were inflating their numbers as they kept changing them and that is a big problem IMO. If the women can't remember, why do they all expect him to remember? When Sonja was first asked, she didn't say how often they were together/had sex and them after prodding and suggestions by Ramona, Bethenny and Carole, all of a sudden she went from very, very casual hookups in between lovers to meeting his parents a day or so before Luann snagged him. If Bethenny had really seen Tom and Ramona out on a "date", why didn't she mention that in the Berkshires or any time during the regular season like Carole did, hell, Bethenny had to remind Ramona of it, so IMO, that was a lie to inflate the number of times they went out. LOL

I just don't think Tom remembers how many times he/Ramona went out, I really don't and I don't think Ramona does either. As for how many times he/Sonja hooked up, she doesn't know and I question if it was even 5 because she was a blackout drunk during that time span. It is possible that she slept in his bed and he hers without them having sex because Sonja passed out, hence her knowing what his bedroom looks like. Oh, and she only said they had seen each others bedrooms but didn't elaborate on if they had sex then or not when they were in them. She was rather ambiguous about it in fact IMO. When it comes right down to it, both Ramona and Sonja have change how many times they were with Tom quite a bit and only settled on certain numbers when other (Bethenny/Carole) put the numbers into their heads, had their stories not changed with the wind, I might have believed them but .......that is not the case. LOL Maybe they are all, Tom/Ramona/Sonja, lying, 1 playing it down and 2 inflating it (which is most likely the truth IMO). LOL

[WireWrap]

9 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Idk, I didn't find Lu "unbearable" this season.  Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of hers.  I've always found her more ridiculous than annoying.  I just couldn't get worked up or irritated by her hypocrisy & phony-baloney crapola the way Bethenny was (and is).  Here's the thing -- I don't disagree with Bethenny on much of what she says about Lu.  She is a hypocrite & a phony & a liar & just generally not a nice woman or one to be trusted in any way.  She's interested in herself first & foremost, and she is what Bethenny called her years ago -- a snake.  

The prob is, Bethenny was so off in her delivery of what she was trying to say about Lu (and to her).  The name-calling & slut-shaming & her scary aura (with her intensely screechy rage) mostly turned Lu into a victim of a really terrifying bully.  And that's it -- because Bethenny is so terrifying in her presence on the show, and clearly nobody has the guts to tell her to tone it the fuck down, this is what happens.  Her message gets muddled because everyone connected to this show is so fearful of her.  Don't they have a right to be?  She just said she might choke someone -- and that's just Lu.  Who knows if she would choke others too?  Bethenny admitted she would commit violent acts.  So who can blame the cast, crew, producers and Satan Andy if they're all trembling in fear of her & truly terrified of Bethenny?  She's a frightening woman now.  And I don't say that lightly.  She really, really, really scares me.

Ah, well, this is the show we're left with watching.  Bethenny rules as a ruthless dictator with endless power & the rest cower in fear of her.  This is what's gonna continue on for next season?  How awful.

Yes to this but it also applies to Bethenny herself, not just Luann. In fact, it applies to almost all of them to varying degrees with Bethenny at the head of the pack. LOL

[Neeners]

The problem is that it's come to the point where I just can't 100% support any of these bitches. Yes, there are definitely some I like more than others, but each and every one of them to some degree make me cringe. I might need an intervention for even continuing to watch these shows. And I like the OC ladies even less. Help!

[zoeysmom]

46 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Absolutely.  And I think by the time he'd been caught in somebody else's clutches he realized that this is the singular best response a liar can offer, as it is irrefutable.  In the meantime though, ole boy wasn't fast enough on his feet.   See this is my whole problem about the Tom thing and the various rubber plausible excuses we could invent - you don't need to remember the truth, it pops right out.  Making up specific and easily checkable inaccurate details is when it goes badly.  That's like every police-coerced confession ever.   He didn't even claim not to remember after he'd told Lu.   On the boat he said it was once.  Ramona threw him a softball and said oh ok Tom now that you're getting married, it was once, let's go with that.   A thinking man liar or not, would've taken that opportunity to say ok mona it could've been more than that, you're cute and all but I just don't recall.   I know whatever Sonja's number is, he's lying on her too.  They can describe each others' bedrooms.

Tom and Luann obviously had the Ramona, Sonja discussion.  The problem is how many times did Luann want to revisit it with Tom/ Ramona told a whole different story in the Berkshires to hear her talk, she might have still been going out with Tom, even at the Reunion she kept insisting Luann should have checked with her, why?  They weren't going out they enjoyed four dates maybe went five places and it was over.   They went out in August, Tom and Luann, met up in November.  When Luann met him he was with another woman.  So why is Ramona even in the equation, and why is Bethenny even bringing it up?    According to Ramona she had as serious boyfriend in Denver at the time.    The initial duplicity began with Ramona and Bethenny.  It is not important if Luann saw it in the paper or if Tom told all that was important was if Tom was dating Ramona at the time.  he said they went out to dinner a couple of times.  Ramona insists they went out four or five times.  The essence of the relationship is Ramon and Tom went out to dinner and they did not have sex.  Both sides seem to be clear on this subject and it happened three months before Luann and Tom got together.

If I were Luann I would be asking, what the hell do you want from Tom?  Is he suppose to acknowledge some deep seated love, she rejected him, to appease Ramona?  Obviously if they met and went out a couple of times, they enjoyed each others' company, should their be a trophy, a piece of jewelry?  What if he had said, she came on strong, but after three nights of hearing about Mario, how she was dating and skating, her book, her daughter, her ordering half the menu and drinking two bottles of expensive wine, she wasn't worth the effort.  He would be labelled a bastard.

The biggest thing is none of these people, and Satan Andy are listening when Luann has told them repeatedly, she does not care what happened before her.  If she doesn't care, she won't be checking his story. 

Ramona was such an obnoxious asshole on the boat with her see thru-dress, dancing and stumbling around, interrupting conversations to insert herself between Tom and Luann (and then claiming Luann was acting like a linebacker) and calling him "baby" repeatedly. I thought he was restrained in not telling her to back off.  He did change from one to two.  And the stupid woman still wanted to argue-it was his party-not the Ramona Tom let's recall our four day dating cycle from six months ago. 

Who said they can describe each others' bedrooms?  Sonja?  Sonja was just at his house in May for Luann's birthday. 

What Sonja is tweeting now is she is mad at Tom for diminishing she and Ramona.  If over the course of ten years you had sex with him five times, and eleven months earlier he went out on date with Ramona five times, perhaps they are the ones with unrealistic expectations in life.   I don't find that all that memorable. Luann was a little crude with her slam, bang thank you ma'am, but they asked how Tom felt about Sonja.  My guess is she probably peed on his rug and left dirty tampons in the bathroom.  So Tom is not entitled to his feelings about the interactions with these women?  Or is not allowed to express because they are unpleasant or unremarkable? 

I think if the shoe was on the other foot and Ramona was dating a friend of Tom's, she might appreciate a toning down of the four day dating ritual or perhaps she would deflect and comment on the shade of blue the guy was wearing.  Sonja on the other hand would expect Tom to say he was moments away from asking her to marry him when his friend came into her life.  I think both these women overestimate their impact in others' lives.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I wonder if Bethenny's behavior at this reunion (and during the season) will impact sales of her brand.

SkinnyGirl?  Oh that's from Bethenny, right?  Yeesh, isn't she so nasty & horrible now?  Isn't she such a terrible & frightening bully now?  I'll pass on buying anything from her.  Well, that's what many could be thinking now when seeing any SkinnyGirl products.  Nice going, Ms Marketing & Branding Genius.

[Trooper York]

It almost has to have a severe impact on her brand. I mean look at comments here and on other message boards. People who still like her are almost apolitical in stating it. Not many people cheer for a nasty amoral bully.

A stopped clock is right twice a day. Ramona was right on the Brooklyn Bridge when she told Bethenny she would screw up her marriage and die alone and friendless.

 I don't know what the second time might be. Certainly not her breasts. Sad.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Not to disparage people who do the hard and often insufficiently rewarding work of serving others, but I would not rely on the word of the Regency waitstaff (who depend on the goodwill and tips of people like Tom) to show up and tell me the truth about what went on that night. I actually think it is really rotten of him to put those employees on the spot whether they were going to be telling the truth or not.  And the likelihood that Tom may have pressured them to show up or provide a less than honest version of the night's events only underlines Tom's level of treachery to me.  The whole thing is just unsavory.  The unsavory act of an unsavory person asking people at a power disadvantage to do unsavory things.  The waitstaff, Dorinda, Sonja - all people at a power disadvantage that Tom was willing to exploit to further his goal.  

What a shit bag. Thank goodness Dorinda had too much sense to be a part of something like that. And how sad Sonja didn't ...

That may well be true.  But it was not losing Luann's friendship that was the real basis of Tom's threat. 

The reality is that shutting each other out of filming is the biggest weapon most of these women have to use against each other.  That is what Tom was doing.  He knew very well his threat was not about cutting Dorinda off from her dear friend Luann.   It was about cutting Dorinda out of filming.  That was the real threat he was implying.  Same thing with Sonja, who desperately needs that paycheck she would get from the wedding episodes.

What a slimy little toad Luann is in bed with.  How can she not see it? How can she not care? 

Do I think it was a good idea to round up the staff-no.  My reasons differ-why does Luann want to relive the night?  She forgave and she wants to move on.

I had not thought of the filming angle and Dorinda has issued an interview (of course) where she said she wishes she had been there more for Tom and Luann.

The wedding is not being filmed so it is really a non-starter.  Generally, production goes dark over the holidays so Sonja really can't complain about not being invited.  She stands by her comments and she can use those to pay her bills.

I think Luann sees Tom more of a supporter.  Luann pulled Sonja's ass out of Siberia this year, and maybe that is the underlying anger issue Sonja has, is Luann went to the Berkshires and then sashayed off with Tom, while the others were planning to block her from the big trip.  I don't know after the shower comments and various other Dorinda comments if I would want to hang out with her if I were Luann.  Right about now, with Dorinda, she has no relationship with Bethenny or Sonja, Jules is gone so that leaves her only meddling in Ramona and Luann's life.

[zulualpha]

Dorinda is going to be a bridesmaid.   She'll make it nice.  Instagram it Dorinda!

[WireWrap]

LOL I can see it now!

[breezy424]

20 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

Dorinda is going to be a bridesmaid.   She'll make it nice.  Instagram it Dorinda!

Lu did say that back in February.  I wonder if she's changed her mind.

[RHJunkie]

9 hours ago, shoegal said:

WTF did Jules think she was walking into?  This ain't an episode of the Golden Girls, Jules, it's the Real Housewives.   Surely Jules is not this big of a dumbass.

I think that Jules is exactly like Brandi in that she wants to point out that she is YOUNGER than these women, that these women are old and dried up and she's still young and juicy.  It's super rude and shortsighted IMO.  It's as if Jules (and Brandi) believe they will never be old.  Well guess what ladies?  Menopause is coming for you, too.

What does it matter if Jules should have known what she was getting into? Does that somehow justify the poor behaviour and commentary from the other women? Just because you may expect someone to say or do something bad doesn't mean you have no place to point out that wrong - especially when you're on the receiving end of it. 

Jules is nothing like Brandi. Brandi was crude and made comments with the sole purpose of making the other women the butt of her jokes. Whether you like the terminology Jules used - she didn't say anything that was technically wrong and always used it in context of the other women's behaviour. When Carole wants to cattily suggest that Luann act her age, not a word is said to point that out but if the women ever behaved properly, Jules wouldn't have so many opportunities to point out how these elderly women don't know how to act, lol. But with that said - of course old age will catch up to Jules. But guess what? She will be always be younger than those women until the day she dies. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by RHJunkie

[breezy424]

Let's face it.  Ro was all over the place and overstating about how many times she went out with Tom.  Sonja was all over the place and overstating the seriousness of her relationship with Tom.  Tom underplayed his relationship with both of them and quite frankly, I don't doubt that he doesn't remember the exact number of times.  Technically, they all lied but Ro and Sonja get a pass from Beth and Carole because they're on the team gunning to 'get' Lu.

Beth is the one who states that Tom was making out with a woman with his tongue down her throat at The Regency for an hour.  Oh wait.  Then Beth makes it two hours.  Here's a couple of pictures.  Did Beth see it?  Nope. The woman is the picture has acknowledged who she is.  Did this woman acknowledge she was making out with Tom for two hours?  I could be wrong but I haven't heard that.  Yeah, Tom shouldn't have even kissed the woman but I don't doubt The Great Exaggerator overstated it because that's what Beth does.

It's all about getting Lu.  Beth has hated her since the series began.  Ro has proven that she will use Lu's children to get Lu.  Carole hates Lu because Lu called her pedophile and for her reaction to Carole dating Adam.  Sonja is desperate to be included in anything so she just joined the team to get air time. 

It's all stupid.  Yeah, Lu has done some mean stuff.  I hated how she treated Alex in Morocco.  But this is all just too much this season.  And I call BS on Ro saying that it's because Ro cares about her.  Despite what they may think, they don't look any better in this whole thing.  IMO, they look worse because they have become so relentless about something that doesn't affect them in any way, shape or form.

[biakbiak]

15 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

n Dorinda attempted to age-shame Carole (even though.... whatever Doris, you are the same age) at the reunion.  Hello to the double standard!

Dorinda wasn't age shaming Carole, she was pointing out the truth. Dorinda also stated she was old enough to be Jules mother and was responding to Carole's comments that it wasn't like she and Jules came from different generations which they do. Dorinda didn't see shame in the truth, Carole did.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Dorinda wasn't age shaming Carole, she was pointing out the truth. Dorinda also stated she was old enough to be Jules mother and was responding to Carole's comments that it wasn't like she and Jules came from different generations which they do. Dorinda didn't see shame in the truth, Carole did.

When Carole and Dorinda were going to talking about their late husbands, Dorinda asked Carole how old her husband would be had he lived and Carole said he would have been 55 or 56, and she made mention of being with someone that old.  So Carole is not without her mention of age. 

Carole claims her mother had her at 18 so I am wondering why math is such a hard concept for her to grasp.

[RedheadZombie]

10 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Wouldn't the witnesses put forth THEIR version of the story?  I think of witnesses as neutral until they express something else.

There is just a lot of assumption based on Dorinda's statement.  She never said he was asking her to lie.  I find Dorinda to be a little self-serving and if her comments are broken down, she perhaps put the emphasis on the wrong part.  I also don't think Tom should have involved Dorinda, if she was uncomfortable hearing another version of the story.  Obviously, Bethenny, Carole, Sonja and Ramona didn't think enough of her to include her in the Tom news.

I don't think saying, "here is how it is going to go down,  The wait staff will come over and tell their story on camera and you will disseminate the results to the other ladies."  If Dorinda is uncomfortable with such a scenario -fine.   She has to know this was a couple struggling to clear the air or at least clean some of the stench out of it.   Was Tom wrong for saying Luan would not be friends with her-probably, but I think the reality is, that in their real lives, Dorinda may not be a part of their lives. 

I don't believe Sonja, only because she was so over the top about how involved she and Tom were and has continued the bullshit even last month saying she wasn't able to try out her vaginal rejuvenation because Luann was marrying her lover.  She went with the lowest number thrown out by Andy.  I do think it is entirely appropriate to ask someone to STFU about a sore spot.  The wedding isn't about Sonja, it is about Luann and Tom. 

Dorinda absolutely said Tom asked her to lie.  Ramona actually said - I can't believe he's asking you to lie.  And in her TH, Dorinda said she would not lie for Tom.  I don't understand why this is still being argued.  It's not subjective.   It's not open to interpretation.  One could argue Dorinda misunderstood, or exaggerated, but she absolutely used the word lie. 

[ElDosEquis]

I was looking at the new fall line ups for cable TV and am excited for the new McGuyver and this edition of Survivor.

I also came across Tru-TV's schedule and this show..

Bethnney Ruins Everything - Beth Frankel stars in this new series where she travels the Upper East Side and ruins everything she comes across.

Instead of offering an insight to life in New York, she degrades and bumbles her way across every aspect of life, never being constructive, intelligent or helpful.

Beth Ruins Everything will expose  the many sides of her mental illness, lack of decorum and general pronunciations on things that are none of her business, yet she feels the need to comment on. BRE is a ground breaking show that will showcase her liabilities as a friend, housewife and human being.

Beth has managed to turn a childhood of being raised by wolves and an adulthood of bad manners into this trainwreck of a show where she comments on sex, marriage, responsible drinking, dating, lying, hyperbole and inserting havoc into any social and private situations in the Big Apple. Watching her hackles rise before she viciously attacks everyone around her is sure to entertain fans of her bad manners and foul mouth.

- Drama  1 hour

[motorcitymom65]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Dorinda absolutely said Tom asked her to lie.  Ramona actually said - I can't believe he's asking you to lie.  And in her TH, Dorinda said she would not lie for Tom.  I don't understand why this is still being argued.  It's not subjective.   It's not open to interpretation.  One could argue Dorinda misunderstood, or exaggerated, but she absolutely used the word lie. 

I think I can explain why the need to pretend that Dorinda didn't say what she said - that is the only way to handle it. The thing that Tom did here is deplorable. The waters can be muddied with the talk of how many dates or hook-ups Tom had with Ramona and Sonja to make Tom look like less of an asshole. Their accounts could be suspect because of their own history with Lu and the truth in general. The water could be muddied about Tom and the girl in the bar. There is a way to spin all of it if someone really wants to do it. It is harder to spin the deal with Tom asking Dorinda to lie and making a threat to a friendship. This makes him look like more of an asshole than making out with the girl (IMO). Doesn't matter that Dorinda said he asked her to lie. Doesn't matter that Ramona repeated it. Doesn't matter that Dorinda called Beth and told her the same story, which Beth then told to Carole. Doesn't matter that Dorinda said in her TH at the finale that she felt like Lu owed her an apology. Doesn't matter because it sounds so bad and there would be little way to overlook this behavior. The only way to handle it is to say that it didn't happen. 

I've been surprised that that this has gotten so little discussion. For me, it was the biggest reveal of all. It says more about Tom's character than anything else I've heard thus far. And it reinforces what many think about Lu - that she is the ultimate liar. Here she is repeating the behavior we saw when she was caught with the Pirate - her first instinct being to find someone who can pull her out of the shitstorm she has found herself in. 

This will be the most interesting part of the reunion for me. Watching how Dorinda handles it. I have a feeling she is going to try and walk this whole deal back, not wanting to appear on any side that isn't entirely pro-Lu. Not wanting to do anything that makes Lu looks more horrendous than she already does. It could be interesting if she doesn't, however, and be a nice set up for next season. Starting out the year a little bit on the outs with Lu. I'm not sure if you can believe anything that comes out of the pre-reunion press, but what was said was that at least one relationship completely flipped at the reunion. Maybe it is the one between Lu and Dorinda. Fingers crossed. 

[ElDosEquis]

10 hours ago, WireWrap said:

LOL I can see it now!

Cos it took so long to bake it and I'll never have that recipe again, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!

[ZaldamoWilder]

15 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I agree...but this does not prove adultery in a court of law on NY. If Jules uses the footage of herself saying - he's always on the phone, who's he talking to? Then it gives Michael free reign to show the footage of the scenes where he is not on the phone and can also show enough scenes of Jules on her phone. Her saying he's always taking a shower - is hearsay and inadmissible. What footage is there of Michael NOT taking caring care of his children do you mean the 2 phone calls where he is not with them? Michael can then show footage of Jules speaking to Dorinda in the Berkshires saying she forgot to call her kids for 24 hours. When Dorinda asked her since you remember now did you call them? Jules laughs and says no. If they get his phone records - and let's say there are 10 calls a day from the girlfriend - it does not prove adultery in court. Jules has to have records of explicit conversations, video of them entering and leaving hotels, show credit card bills where he's paying tons of money on jewelry and gifts not going to the Wainstein household DURING their marriage. The photos I've seen are from AFTER he filed for divorce so those pics of Home Goods shopping can not be used. In NY it also has to be 3rd party witness and it can not be Jules herself. The 3rd party witness can not be the girlfriends husband since he filed for divorce. I feel bad for her, she was married to this man for 8 years, they share the same faith, she gave him the the perfect family of a son and a daughter. She should get half of everything he has, but I'm kind of thinking he has some aces up his sleeve and may have moved assets some time ago. They've been allegedly working on that McDumpsite for 7 years and they've only been married for 8. Nothing seems "finished" - who knows what the mortgage is on that place. The Manhattan apt...do they own or rent?

Just to clarify, Michael is the one who filed.   Which was a smart move, it takes her ability to use adultery off the table.  Unless he's alleging that she cheated, it wouldn't be listed as a cause.   Excluding some specific contractual reference to a breach of fidelity, like a pre or postnup clause, it has no monetary value in divorce proceedings.  Its only purpose is to use as grounds.  The Home Goods pics are for her to counter his claims that (due to the show, his business is suffering) he can't afford to pay $10K a month.........while running around town in a chauffeured car, wearing Tom Fords, shopping in the middle of a weekday (even though business is suffering).   They may also be of use to her to state that since they're not divorced yet, all the cash he has spent on his mistress (I think the article that picture came from said they were getting knicknacks for the place he just bought her) is a marital asset.    He's screwed.  I hope. 

[ladle]

I really think you forfeit the right to chastise someone else for paying her nanny to stand on sample-sale lines, when you've been filmed having your own assistants hold up your wedding dress as you pee in an ice bucket.  Just.  Saying. 

[WireWrap]

45 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 I'm not sure if you can believe anything that comes out of the pre-reunion press, but what was said was that at least one relationship completely flipped at the reunion. Maybe it is the one between Lu and Dorinda. Fingers crossed. 

It will be interesting to hear what Dorinda says about that phone call at the reunion but we already know that she is still in Luann's wedding, so whatever it was, Dorinda and Luann got past it.  

[ElDosEquis]

Animal Planet.....

Raised by Wolves - Documentary - 1 hour.

RbW follows a woman. who claims to be raised by wolves, on her quest to become part of society. "Wolves" is a ground breaking film that examines Beth Frankel's life in New York and her inability to fit in with the people around her. Follow Beth every step of the way - from her failures to be polite or nose out of people's business, howling at perceived slights and her snarling/snapping at the ankles of anyone in the area.  One mystery that eludes the filmmakers is the secrecy the surrounds her personal life, such as dating married men and raising a child - instead focusing on the Beth on the prowl, stalking and attacking innocent people on the Upper East Side!

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think I can explain why the need to pretend that Dorinda didn't say what she said - that is the only way to handle it. The thing that Tom did here is deplorable. The waters can be muddied with the talk of how many dates or hook-ups Tom had with Ramona and Sonja to make Tom look like less of an asshole. Their accounts could be suspect because of their own history with Lu and the truth in general. The water could be muddied about Tom and the girl in the bar. There is a way to spin all of it if someone really wants to do it. It is harder to spin the deal with Tom asking Dorinda to lie and making a threat to a friendship. This makes him look like more of an asshole than making out with the girl (IMO). Doesn't matter that Dorinda said he asked her to lie. Doesn't matter that Ramona repeated it. Doesn't matter that Dorinda called Beth and told her the same story, which Beth then told to Carole. Doesn't matter that Dorinda said in her TH at the finale that she felt like Lu owed her an apology. Doesn't matter because it sounds so bad and there would be little way to overlook this behavior. The only way to handle it is to say that it didn't happen. 

I've been surprised that that this has gotten so little discussion. For me, it was the biggest reveal of all. It says more about Tom's character than anything else I've heard thus far. And it reinforces what many think about Lu - that she is the ultimate liar. Here she is repeating the behavior we saw when she was caught with the Pirate - her first instinct being to find someone who can pull her out of the shitstorm she has found herself in. 

This will be the most interesting part of the reunion for me. Watching how Dorinda handles it. I have a feeling she is going to try and walk this whole deal back, not wanting to appear on any side that isn't entirely pro-Lu. Not wanting to do anything that makes Lu looks more horrendous than she already does. It could be interesting if she doesn't, however, and be a nice set up for next season. Starting out the year a little bit on the outs with Lu. I'm not sure if you can believe anything that comes out of the pre-reunion press, but what was said was that at least one relationship completely flipped at the reunion. Maybe it is the one between Lu and Dorinda. Fingers crossed. 

Dorinda – for someone coming onto an established show and Season 8 being only her second season – she is the Queen of Reality TV Politics.

I don’t think she will have any problem retaining her apple.

I also think she will shimmy herself right out of any sticky situation without really answering.

When Bethenny and Jules were going at it…Dorinda shut it down for 2 reasons. One she is protective of Jules and the more important reason is Dorinda does not want it to come to light that she was the source of information on things Jules said to her in private.

So if Andy brings up what was the conversation you had with Luanne and Tom after the Miami trip…Dorinda will do a few moves to distract and not really reveal anything.

She’ll pull another Yosemite Sam

I also don’t think Bethenny and Carole will have any problem filming with Dorinda this fall. Weirdly, I think Bethenny respects Dorinda’s game. With Carole – they’ll do the reconciliation storyline.

[ElDosEquis]

15 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Yes to this but it also applies to Bethenny herself, not just Luann. In fact, it applies to almost all of them to varying degrees with Bethenny at the head of the pack. LOL

You are being kind by saying it's 'varying degrees'.

I'd say the difference is the space between the Marianas Trench and Mount Everest?

[ElDosEquis]

15 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Tom and Luann obviously had the Ramona, Sonja discussion.  The problem is how many times did Luann want to revisit it with Tom/ Ramona told a whole different story in the Berkshires to hear her talk, she might have still been going out with Tom, even at the Reunion she kept insisting Luann should have checked with her, why?  They weren't going out they enjoyed four dates maybe went five places and it was over.   They went out in August, Tom and Luann, met up in November.  When Luann met him he was with another woman.  So why is Ramona even in the equation, and why is Bethenny even bringing it up?    According to Ramona she had as serious boyfriend in Denver at the time.    The initial duplicity began with Ramona and Bethenny.  It is not important if Luann saw it in the paper or if Tom told all that was important was if Tom was dating Ramona at the time.  he said they went out to dinner a couple of times.  Ramona insists they went out four or five times.  The essence of the relationship is Ramon and Tom went out to dinner and they did not have sex.  Both sides seem to be clear on this subject and it happened three months before Luann and Tom got together.

If I were Luann I would be asking, what the hell do you want from Tom?  Is he suppose to acknowledge some deep seated love, she rejected him, to appease Ramona?  Obviously if they met and went out a couple of times, they enjoyed each others' company, should their be a trophy, a piece of jewelry?  What if he had said, she came on strong, but after three nights of hearing about Mario, how she was dating and skating, her book, her daughter, her ordering half the menu and drinking two bottles of expensive wine, she wasn't worth the effort.  He would be labelled a bastard.

The biggest thing is none of these people, and Satan Andy are listening when Luann has told them repeatedly, she does not care what happened before her.  If she doesn't care, she won't be checking his story. 

Ramona was such an obnoxious asshole on the boat with her see thru-dress, dancing and stumbling around, interrupting conversations to insert herself between Tom and Luann (and then claiming Luann was acting like a linebacker) and calling him "baby" repeatedly. I thought he was restrained in not telling her to back off.  He did change from one to two.  And the stupid woman still wanted to argue-it was his party-not the Ramona Tom let's recall our four day dating cycle from six months ago. 

Who said they can describe each others' bedrooms?  Sonja?  Sonja was just at his house in May for Luann's birthday. 

What Sonja is tweeting now is she is mad at Tom for diminishing she and Ramona.  If over the course of ten years you had sex with him five times, and eleven months earlier he went out on date with Ramona five times, perhaps they are the ones with unrealistic expectations in life.   I don't find that all that memorable. Luann was a little crude with her slam, bang thank you ma'am, but they asked how Tom felt about Sonja.  My guess is she probably peed on his rug and left dirty tampons in the bathroom.  So Tom is not entitled to his feelings about the interactions with these women?  Or is not allowed to express because they are unpleasant or unremarkable? 

I think if the shoe was on the other foot and Ramona was dating a friend of Tom's, she might appreciate a toning down of the four day dating ritual or perhaps she would deflect and comment on the shade of blue the guy was wearing.  Sonja on the other hand would expect Tom to say he was moments away from asking her to marry him when his friend came into her life.  I think both these women overestimate their impact in others' lives.

Wait, are these women menopausal or not?

I think that the Ramonster and Sonja should carry Swiss Army Knives and carve their names into the headboards of their 'suitors', that way there is proof that they had sex in that bed and they can capture the exact number of times they banged this poor fool?

(I dated a woman who's ex husband did exactly that, That fucking headboard pissed me off because when I tilted my head in a certain way, doing a certain thing - I had to look at that shit. Looking back? I don't feel bad about the times she cracked her head on the damn thing?)

[zoeysmom]

7 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Dorinda absolutely said Tom asked her to lie.  Ramona actually said - I can't believe he's asking you to lie.  And in her TH, Dorinda said she would not lie for Tom.  I don't understand why this is still being argued.  It's not subjective.   It's not open to interpretation.  One could argue Dorinda misunderstood, or exaggerated, but she absolutely used the word lie. 

The way I see it, if Dorinda didn't hear the witnesses, she wasn't at the Regency, then how would she know that Tom wanted her to lie?  So Dorinda was assuming the witnesses would be lying?  I get he wanted to minimize the "two hour make out session",but I don't think he was expecting to clear his name.  I think that is Dorinda an her limited ability to comprehend.

I find Dorinda a little too self-righteous.  I will be interested to see what happens if anything at the Reunion.

In response to an earlier query-Dorinda is in the wedding party.  So either she apologized for saying she was being asked to lie, or Luann and Tom are forgiving.  Personally, after her comments she would be off the list.  She is not a good friend she is always out for Dorinda. 

http://www.people.com/article/dorinda-medley-luann-de-lesseps-tom-cheating-cover-up-rhony-finale-recap

I didn't see a downside to listening to the wait staff.

[KungFuBunny]

4 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Wait, are these women menopausal or not?

I think that the Ramonster and Sonja should carry Swiss Army Knives and carve their names into the headboards of their 'suitors', that way there is proof that they had sex in that bed and they can capture the exact number of times they banged this poor fool?

(I dated a woman who's ex husband did exactly that, That fucking headboard pissed me off because when I tilted my head in a certain way, doing a certain thing - I had to look at that shit. Looking back? I don't feel bad about the times she cracked her head on the damn thing?)

You mean like this?

To be fair, Ramona said they never got together THAT way. They had what's called cheerleader dating as in 2! 4! 6! 8!

I guess she could have used the Swiss Army knife to carve her name into his Backgammon board

[zoeysmom]

46 minutes ago, ladle said:

I really think you forfeit the right to chastise someone else for paying her nanny to stand on sample-sale lines, when you've been filmed having your own assistants hold up your wedding dress as you pee in an ice bucket.  Just.  Saying. 

Here is her assistant Max's take on how inappropriate Bethenny was in her treatment of Max.  Tasks included underwear shopping for her and packing her thong underwear.   http://www.realitytea.com/2011/03/21/preview-bethenny-ever-after-plus-assistant-max-speaks-out-defends-himself/

So it is just another day in Bethenny's hypocrite hell.

I love the way Max said it wasn't as if Bethenny was Cameron Diaz.

[shoegal]

11 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

What does it matter if Jules should have known what she was getting into? Does that somehow justify the poor behaviour and commentary from the other women? Just because you may expect someone to say or do something bad doesn't mean you have no place to point out that wrong - especially when you're on the receiving end of it. 

Jules is nothing like Brandi. Brandi was crude and made comments with the sole purpose of making the other women the butt of her jokes. Whether you like the terminology Jules used - she didn't say anything that was technically wrong and always used it in context of the other women's behaviour. When Carole wants to cattily suggest that Luann act her age, not a word is said to point that out but if the women ever behaved properly, Jules wouldn't have so many opportunities to point out how these elderly women don't know how to act, lol. But with that said - of course old age will catch up to Jules. But guess what? She will be always be younger than those women until the day she dies. 

The point is- why does Jules even have to reference the ladies age at all if she just wants to point out their bad behavior?  Why can't she just point out their bad behavior?  There is no point in referencing them being "elderly" or "menopausal" other than to be rude, and catty and age shaming.  As to your point that Jules will always be younger than these ladies "until the day she dies".....that's the other part of the problem- it's treating being younger than someone else as some sort of accomplishment.  It's not, but it I think Jules (and Brandi) thinks differently.

I don't remember what Carole said about LuAnn acting her age.  I'm sure someone can refresh my memory LOL

[ElDosEquis]

26 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

You mean like this?

To be fair, Ramona said they never got together THAT way. They had what's called cheerleader dating as in 2! 4! 6! 8!

I guess she could have used the Swiss Army knife to carve her name into his Backgammon board

2,4,6,8 with who does lulu fornicate?

five, seven, nine ten, all the men in Man hat -en!!!

[mwell345]

17 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

dk, I didn't find Lu "unbearable" this season.  Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of hers.  I've always found her more ridiculous than annoying.  I just couldn't get worked up or irritated by her hypocrisy & phony-baloney crapola the way Bethenny was (and is).  Here's the thing -- I don't disagree with Bethenny on much of what she says about Lu.  She is a hypocrite & a phony & a liar & just generally not a nice woman or one to be trusted in any way.  She's interested in herself first & foremost, and she is what Bethenny called her years ago -- a snake.  

Truthfully, LuAnn has never really bothered me.  In the early seasons, I found her pretentious, but I thought that she was acting like she felt a "Countess" should act.  After her marriage dissolved, she seemed to loosen up, and I enjoyed her more as she seemed more real to me.

This season, while she did get on my nerves with the constant "I'm getting married" , she still didn't bother me all that much.  I laughed at how she invited herself on the Mexico trip much to Bethenny's dismay.  My sense was that she knew that she was getting on the rest of the HW's nerves and she didn't care...because she was "getting married". 

[ElDosEquis]

Hahahahaha, I have four summers left, so don't hurt my feelings and remind me that the meter is running and I have no more change to put in, I have a dog named baby, dating a guy who could be my son and I have a pied de terre in side my best friend's splenic flexure.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Just to clarify, Michael is the one who filed.   Which was a smart move, it takes her ability to use adultery off the table.  Unless he's alleging that she cheated, it wouldn't be listed as a cause.   Excluding some specific contractual reference to a breach of fidelity, like a pre or postnup clause, it has no monetary value in divorce proceedings.  Its only purpose is to use as grounds.  The Home Goods pics are for her to counter his claims that (due to the show, his business is suffering) he can't afford to pay $10K a month.........while running around town in a chauffeured car, wearing Tom Fords, shopping in the middle of a weekday (even though business is suffering).   They may also be of use to her to state that since they're not divorced yet, all the cash he has spent on his mistress (I think the article that picture came from said they were getting knicknacks for the place he just bought her) is a marital asset.    He's screwed.  I hope. 

Like the proverbial stopped clock being right twice a day, I think Bethenny when she said Michael was all show, was correct.  I think he timed the filing of the divorce and purposely has suppressed income and hidden assets.  The half finished house in the Hamptons, with no real goal of finishing it makes that property's value extremely low.  Not to mention the unfinished swimming pool in the living room.  It would surprise me at all if after crying poor, Michael's business has a remarkable resurgence.  Running up credit cards and the like, increase the debt, suppress the income.   Hopefully his little plan will backfire.

I am hoping cooler heads will prevail for Jules and Michael so she can return-especially if Bethenny moves onto greener pastures.  Bring Kristen around -they are close in age and have kids the same age and dicks for husbands. 

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

The way I see it, if Dorinda didn't hear the witnesses, she wasn't at the Regency, then how would she know that Tom wanted her to lie?  So Dorinda was assuming the witnesses would be lying?  I get he wanted to minimize the "two hour make out session",but I don't think he was expecting to clear his name.  I think that is Dorinda an her limited ability to comprehend.

I find Dorinda a little too self-righteous.  I will be interested to see what happens if anything at the Reunion.

In response to an earlier query-Dorinda is in the wedding party.  So either she apologized for saying she was being asked to lie, or Luann and Tom are forgiving.  Personally, after her comments she would be off the list.  She is not a good friend she is always out for Dorinda. 

http://www.people.com/article/dorinda-medley-luann-de-lesseps-tom-cheating-cover-up-rhony-finale-recap

I didn't see a downside to listening to the wait staff.

Third option:  Dorinda forgave Tom for asking her to lie and threatening to cut her out of Lu's life, and she forgave Lu's place in the whole mess.  Which is the option I'm leaning toward. 

[zoeysmom]

12 minutes ago, mwell345 said:

Truthfully, LuAnn has never really bothered me.  In the early seasons, I found her pretentious, but I thought that she was acting like she felt a "Countess" should act.  After her marriage dissolved, she seemed to loosen up, and I enjoyed her more as she seemed more real to me.

This season, while she did get on my nerves with the constant "I'm getting married" , she still didn't bother me all that much.  I laughed at how she invited herself on the Mexico trip much to Bethenny's dismay.  My sense was that she knew that she was getting on the rest of the HW's nerves and she didn't care...because she was "getting married". 

I have always thought Luann showed one side, and was joined by many of the others have those who have obtained financial privilege live.  She liked the Hamptons lifestyle, the fashion shows, and she had a continuing international connection first with The Count and later with Jacques.  Jill had her fabulous group of upholsters friends and loved the social life, Alex and Simon were kind of pathetic self-proclaimed social climbers trying so hard to get their children in the best schools but lovable, Ramona was the one with the hot husband, business and zero awareness and manners.  Bethenny job seemed to be to point fingers at the privileged, although she longed to belong.

I think Luann was trying to steer clear of the controversy and just needed to keep reminding people her focus was on her future with Tom.  I question that the only thing Luann said after she got engaged was, "I am getting married."  I think production "highlighted" the references so as to show that Luann's engagement and wedding was an annoyance to others.,  By the end of the season we were being sold that Adam and Carole's train to nowhere romance was the soundest one.

[Trooper York]

Well a mothers love is the greatest love of all. 

So I guess an old enough to be your mothers love is the next best thing. Just sayn'

Edited September 10, 2016 by Trooper York

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Third option:  Dorinda forgave Tom for asking her to lie and threatening to cut her out of Lu's life, and she forgave Lu's place in the whole mess.  Which is the option I'm leaning toward. 

Good point.  I am anxious to see if Dorinda addresses the issue or wiggles out.  Bethenny and Carole said Dorinda got away with murder at the Reunion and didn't have to own up to her meddling.  So I am not expecting much.

The difference between Luann and Dorinda, is she not only doesn't object to the others' unflattering characterizations of John, she joins in.  Luann is pretty steadfast and isn't going to call her man a liar or focus on his weaknesses, she sees more.  Since Dorinda seems to be stringing John along, she has a recorded history of why she can wash her hands of John-no regrets.  Luann is trying to build a future with Tom even with his public make out session, she wants the world to love him as much as she does.  I kind of pity John, he has been good to Dorinda. 

[Trooper York]

The problem is with Dorinda not John. He could do a lot better. He should do a lot better. But it is obvious that he is a fame whore and he deserves all the hits he gets for climbing Mount Slurry so he can get on TV.

[LIMOM]

9 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

The problem is with Dorinda not John. He could do a lot better. He should do a lot better. But it is obvious that he is a fame whore and he deserves all the hits he gets for climbing Mount Slurry so he can get on TV.

I don't see how John could even find anyone to date him,Imo.

he is uncouth, unfortunate looking and older.

free dry cleaning can only do so much for him.