The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[lilwhitelion]

Re: Nicknames. My grandmother’s given name was Bertha. Known as Bert for 50 years. Husband number 3 thought it was short for Roberta so began calling her Robbie. That stuck to the day she died. 

[FizzyPuff]

On 6/14/2019 at 5:44 AM, DangerousMinds said:

I read Amy stopped following Jill, Joy, and Anna on sm.

Wow I really thought she got on with those three girls especially Joy. 

On 6/14/2019 at 7:25 AM, Zella said:

It just dawned on me that they might have had a pretty good row off social media, too, which might also dictate who got unfollowed. . . . 

Damn it! I bet no TLC cameras were around then,Now that’s something I’d watch. 

17 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

This is actually a very sweet post...

Aww Meredith singing you are my sunshine to grandma is so sweet, I had tears in my eyes 😢

Edited June 16, 2019 by Puffin

[irisheyes]

From all the posts, it sounds like Grandma Duggar worked very hard to KNOW each of her grandkids and great grandkids as individuals and treat them as unique human beings. As opposed to JB and Michelle who only see them as a herd. Pretty sure that when they pass away, their grandkids won’t fill SM with all of the sweet, individual things they did for them. Because they’d have to write some fiction. 

[Scarlett45]

I can certainly see Amy being in the depth of her grief, expressing herself to her cousins, some nasty things being said and Amy unfollowing them. Someone upthread mentioned that once an elder dies many will say what they TRULY FELT about family members when they always kept her mouth shut out of respect for their elder. 

I could very well believe that Jill wasn’t attempting to be hurtful or insensitive to her cousin, but rather than saying “I’m sorry, I didn’t realize” she got defensive & Amy called her an idiot. 

I do believe Amy loved Grandma Mary very much, combine that with being very pregnant right now.....at least she and Deanna have each other. 

[FizzyPuff]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

From all the posts, it sounds like Grandma Duggar worked very hard to KNOW each of her grandkids and great grandkids as individuals and treat them as unique human beings. As opposed to JB and Michelle who only see them as a herd. Pretty sure that when they pass away, their grandkids won’t fill SM with all of the sweet, individual things they did for them. Because they’d have to write some fiction. 

I think JB did try and do things with his kids though, playing with them etc when they went places on the show or even at home you could see he was actually trying to be a dad and interact with his kids. Michelle not so much, maybe she did it with the older ones then gave up the more kids she had and just saw herself as a broodmare. 

[Fuzzysox]

Poor Grandma. Condolences to her family. I think it will hit Amy and Joyless the most. Amy because they were always together and Joyless because we all know Grandma was her real mother growing up.

[Oldernowiser]

You know, to me the ONLY positive to being a member of a family this massive is that there should be someone around to pay attention when you get old and more accident-prone.

Instead she dies because there was no one there to pull her out of the damned pool.

 It’s ironic, sad, and, frankly, borderline negligent.

[Spencer Hastings]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can certainly see Amy being in the depth of her grief, expressing herself to her cousins, some nasty things being said and Amy unfollowing them. Someone upthread mentioned that once an elder dies many will say what they TRULY FELT about family members when they always kept her mouth shut out of respect for their elder. 

Amy might even know how Grandma truly felt about some of them and their antics (so many to choose from). No doubt she loved them, but I’d be willing to bet that she made side comments from time to time while it was just her and Amy. That may also contribute to Amy’s current mindset. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

You know, to me the ONLY positive to being a member of a family this massive is that there should be someone around to pay attention when you get old and more accident-prone.

Instead she dies because there was no one there to pull her out of the damned pool.

 It’s ironic, sad, and, frankly, borderline negligent.

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

[BigBingerBro]

Dithy doesn't surprise me.  Back in the day when J&A were on the show constantly, she never called Macynsie (sp!?) her full name.  It was always "Kinsie" or "kins".  I wonder if any of the other kids have nicknames?

[WalrusGirl]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

Yes, People reported it was Deanna. Horrible no matter who it was, but I’m also relieved it was one of the full-on adults and not a grandchild, especially a pregnant granddaughter. 😔 https://people.com/tv/grandma-mary-duggar-found-by-daughter-after-drowning/

[Oldernowiser]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, WalrusGirl said:

Yes, People reported it was Deanna. Horrible no matter who it was, but I’m also relieved it was one of the full-on adults and not a grandchild, especially a pregnant granddaughter. 😔 https://people.com/tv/grandma-mary-duggar-found-by-daughter-after-drowning/

I’m so very sorry that Deena had to see her mother in that state. I hope she takes care of herself emotionally and has people in her corner to support her in her grief. I too am happy it wasn’t Amy or one of the little ones. I don’t think Deena was negligent towards her mother at all, but Mary was her mother, and grief isn’t always rational. 

[65mickey]

19 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Duggars are a lot of things but I don’t think they were negligent towards Mary. There’s nothing to suggest that she was physically or cognitively unable to look after herself. It was an ACCIDENT. A tragic one but it’s not anyone’s fault. Young people can have accidents like this as well. 

Likely she may have wanted to live alone to get away from the noise. She may have wanted her “me time” to enjoy her home on her own terms. 

I do hope no one at the home at the time is burdened by guilt over this. Do we know who found Mary? Was it Deena?

Yes a younger person may have tripped and fallen into the pool. But hopefully that younger person would know how to swim. That is unless a long denim skirt pulled them down.  If Mary was confused and fell into the pool in the deep end she may have panicked and not known how to get to the side and get her self out if there was no steps. Confused elderly adults should not be left alone around a body of water be it a pool, lake or river. 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

Many people have mini strokes and don’t lose any physical or cognitive functioning.  No longer being able to drive an automobile doesn’t mean she wasn’t capable of living dependently or doing her typical chores.

Also elderly people can be stubborn- it’s quite possible someone told her they would clean the pool and she wanted to do it herself because she was used to doing so; and proceeded to do as she wanted “on the sly” because it was her damn house and she wasn’t going to be told what to do (been there!)

Unless Mary was in such poor cognitive condition she required 24/7 supervision to keep her from being a danger to herself I don’t think anyone was negligent here. And nothing I’ve read or heard suggested she wasn’t well enough to live independently (even with her strokes this winter). 

I absolutely believe Deena loved her mother and wouldn’t have put her in danger if she was ill in such a way. 

[65mickey]

If Mary had suffered strokes and was frail and confused it was not a good idea to have her live alone in this house. At the very least the pool should have been enclosed in a fence. Yes elderly individuals can be stubborn but this is no excuse for her to be left alone around an open body of water. This should be a lesson to the Duggars with all of the many young children to get the pools on their property secured behind a fence. You cannot watch a child 24/7. 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

If Mary had suffered strokes and was frail and confused it was not a good idea to have her live alone in this house. At the very least the pool should have been enclosed in a fence. Yes elderly individuals can be stubborn but this is no excuse for her to be left alone around an open body of water. This should be a lesson to the Duggars with all of the many young children to get the pools on their property secured behind a fence. You cannot watch a child 24/7. 

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse- but I think where we diverge is that there’s no evidence she WAS confused.

Being 78 and having had mini strokes several months ago doesn’t necessarily mean she wasn’t cognitively 100%- and capable of unlocking her own pool, to clean it, or dip her toes in etc etc. 

Unless there is evidence that she was confused it was just an accident. An awful one but an accident. 

[WalrusGirl]

50 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

She had had a couple of mini-strokes and couldn’t drive, or do I have that wrong?

Plenty of people take, or are advised to take, some months off of driving if they’ve had a TIA or “minor” stroke. For a number of reasons. But that Jana was driving her to church doesn’t mean she flat out *couldn’t* drive, either. 🤷🏻‍♀️

46 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Unless Mary was in such poor cognitive condition she required 24/7 supervision to keep her from being a danger to herself I don’t think anyone was negligent here. And nothing I’ve read or heard suggested she wasn’t well enough to live independently (even with her strokes this winter). 

This. As long as Mary was able to understand the risks of living alone (period or in proximity to a pool), she had every right to decide that’s what she wanted to do. Competent adults are allowed to make bad decisions. (In general. I’m not saying I think this was a bad living situation, as I know *I’d* prefer it to living at the big house, and it would be far better for my blood pressure and quality of life.) She honestly could have just as easily (MORE easily) slipped on and down stairs, inside or outside the house, with a head or neck injury leading to the same result.

We don’t know enough about her condition to be making real judgments about her living situation - my dad pretty fully recovered after his stroke, but we encouraged a month off of driving and he did so, and it took a year or two before he was really comfortable driving long distances again in terms of stamina. (He just turned 77; this was two years ago.) But he’s 100% independent in terms of living and driving. Mary living so close to family and being checked on daily/multiple times a day (via contact with Deanna or granddaughters, etc, or someone actually driving over to visit) is kind of the dream living situation for someone in her position. Drivers available, people to set up her meds, etc, but her own quiet space. It’s awful what happened, but it could have happened in the shower or tub or on the stairs, too - she was presumably on blood thinners after two recent strokes, so any fall was likely to be bad news.

[Scarlett45]

@WalrusGirl thank you for making my point more eloquently than I could. 

[WalrusGirl]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@WalrusGirl thank you for making my point more eloquently than I could. 

I was just agreeing with you! But I’ve interned at an Area Agency on Aging during my master’s, and work in medical/primarily older adults. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What I forgot to mention is that there’s also *no way* Mary’s various medical providers weren’t asking about her living situation at stroke discharges and follow-up appointments. PT clears one to return to their living situation before hospital discharge, or alternative arrangements are made prior to discharge. Her doctors knew if she was living alone, how often she had someone checking in, etc, and if she was in an uncleared living situation, it would have been easy to remedy in this family. But one can fatally fall down the stairs, in the shower, or into the pool whether or not someone is living with them. 😔

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Yes a younger person may have tripped and fallen into the pool. But hopefully that younger person would know how to swim. That is unless a long denim skirt pulled them down.  If Mary was confused and fell into the pool in the deep end she may have panicked and not known how to get to the side and get her self out if there was no steps. Confused elderly adults should not be left alone around a body of water be it a pool, lake or river. 

We haven't heard that Mary was confused.  Many elderly and physically challenged people live alone.  In Mary's case, she lived very near her family and they apparently saw her regularly.  We know she went to church with Jana the morning of her death and Deanna found her later that afternoon.  She was alone no more than a few hours and there is no evidence that she couldn't manage for herself for that period of time.

Anyone can drown in a pool, even a good swimmer; particularly if they fall in fully clothed and/or hit their heads on the edge and are dazed by the blow.  If Mary was wearing a sweater or sweats or denim, it would've weighed her down and pulled her under and it could've prevented her from getting out of the water even if she could swim.

ETA: as far as being supervised 24/7, that's a tall order for anyone.  A friend of mine lost her mom a few years back.  Her mother, in her mid 80's, went to the hospital with a respiratory infection.  While in the ER, she went to the bathroom, slipped and hit her head on the edge of a gurney.  Head injury, died the next day.  Her mom had been living independently in her own apartment, still driving, no issues with walking.  A nurse asked if she needed help getting up and she said she was fine, didn't want help, didn't need a bedpan.  Stuff happens.

Edited June 17, 2019 by doodlebug

[MMEButterfly]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m not trying to beat a dead horse- but I think where we diverge is that there’s no evidence she WAS confused.

Being 78 and having had mini strokes several months ago doesn’t necessarily mean she wasn’t cognitively 100%- and capable of unlocking her own pool, to clean it, or dip her toes in etc etc. 

Unless there is evidence that she was confused it was just an accident. An awful one but an accident. 

Dang, I've been reading this and thinking about how I'm a couple of years older. Granted, I've never had a stroke, but I still work part-time and recently traveled half-way around the world (first one way and then another) with no young people watching me. If there were no evidence she was confused, then she could  and should make her own choices. 

[Marigold]

So....

Will TLC film the memorial service?

I think they will...there has been quite a lot of interest in Mary Duggar and that translates into ratings. 

[WalrusGirl]

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

ETA: as far as being supervised 24/7, that's a tall order for anyone.  A friend of mine lost her mom a few years back.  Her mother, in her mid 80's, went to the hospital with a respiratory infection.  While in the ER, she went to the bathroom, slipped and hit her head on the edge of a gurney.  Head injury, died the next day.  Her mom had been living independently in her own apartment, still driving, no issues with walking.  A nurse asked if she needed help getting up and she said she was fine, didn't want help, didn't need a bedpan.  Stuff happens.

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

Edited June 17, 2019 by WalrusGirl

[Jynnan tonnix]

My mother, who is 85, still lives at home, though she has some help coming in for anywhere from a few hours some days to 24 hours a couple of days a week. She often spends weekends with us, and will probably transition to living here full time at some point this year. She doesn't get around very well any more and has a degenerative spine condition which leaves her in pain most of the time, and her feet not always quite responsive to what she tells them to do. But she still wants to try to stay at home for as long as she can. 

Actually, though, speaking of mini-strokes, it wasn't until a couple of years ago when she first started having really significant problems with her legs and was going to have spinal surgery that a brain scan showed that she had had several mini-strokes at some point, though they couldn't determine when they might have happened. They certainly didn't leave her cognitively impaired at all - she's still as sharp as a tack - and though they may have contributed to her frailty, there was nothing indicating any sort of sudden drop in ability at any time, and at whatever point they had happened she was probably still living quite independently with only someone to come in and clean for her every couple of weeks.

[Dimi1]

so what exactly did jill and joy and any other girls do to upset amy? and I also wonder if Gma left amy some money??? maybe that is what it is really about....

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

so what exactly did jill and joy and any other girls do to upset amy? and I also wonder if Gma left amy some money??? maybe that is what it is really about....

Amy hasn’t removed comments that refer to Jill in response to this:

This could lead one to believe it is because if this:

She did delete other tweets.

[PradaKitty]

I would have done the same thing as Amy. 

[debbie311]

19 hours ago, Marigold said:

So....

Will TLC film the memorial service?

I think they will...there has been quite a lot of interest in Mary Duggar and that translates into ratings. 

I read on Facebook that TLC did film the funeral.

[galaxygirl76]

5 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

I read on Facebook that TLC did film the funeral.

Of course they did. Everything for the almighty dollar.

[Oldernowiser]

10 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Of course they did. Everything for the almighty dollar.

This is how Ma and Pa are going to slither their way back onto the show. Hell, they’ll probably have Josh give a tearful eulogy.

🤢

[Lunera]

Pickles says that Smugs spoke at the funeral but TLC cut off the cameras.

[65mickey]

16 hours ago, WalrusGirl said:

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

That was my point that you can't have 24/7 supervision. But the worst thing is to have an unenclosed pool around young children or elderly adults who may or may not be unsteady on their feet or may or may not be confused. Just doesn't make sense. The fact is that Mary did fall into the pool and did drown. You don't hear of this with healthy adults who know how to swim very often. 

[Marigold]

Someone posted in the comment section of Pickles post (shown above) that they were under contract to have the funeral recorded.

Is that true? I have no idea how TV reality shows work. I depend on you guys to give me the info.  😉

[Zella]

I don't know how that works either, @Marigold but am also curious. Would their contracts have something in there about any major life events, which would be broad enough to cover everything from weddings to babies to deaths to moves?

[Marigold]

Just now, Zella said:

I don't know how that works either, @Marigold but am also curious. Would their contracts have something in there about any major life events, which would be broad enough to cover everything from weddings to babies to deaths to moves?

That's exactly what I thought.  The comment said they are required by contact. 

Are reality contracts like that? I never even thought about it.  Is this why we get phone video also?  Obviously the Duggars want some "interesting" footage but I never in a million years thought that they had to film life events.  Wow. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Maybe there is a stipulation in their contract that states TLC has the right to film major events that would impact the show or its “characters.”  As a production, their job is to choose interesting storylines and events. Losing a grandmother who was on the show a lot in the past is probably one of those events. 

[Rabbittron]

The reason in my opinion is because of Boob and the almighty dollar. 

[GeeGolly]

6 hours ago, Lunera said:

Pickles says that Smugs spoke at the funeral but TLC cut off the cameras.

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

For my own peace of mind I'm going with Mary tripping, hitting her head, becoming unconscious and falling in the pool. Through not fault of her own or anyone else.

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, Marigold said:

Someone posted in the comment section of Pickles post (shown above) that they were under contract to have the funeral recorded.

Is that true? I have no idea how TV reality shows work. I depend on you guys to give me the info.  😉

I really don't think that's true. It sounds like one of their leghumpers making a knee-jerk excuse to defend the Duggars from the implication that they're exploiting Mary's death.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

For my own peace of mind I'm going with Mary tripping, hitting her head, becoming unconscious and falling in the pool. Through not fault of her own or anyone else.

I agree.  From what Jana posted and then who found the body, she was only by herself for a few hours.   That is a huge reach for Pickles to say that JB was too cheap for a nursing home.   

[Higgins]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:07 AM, WalrusGirl said:

Yeah, even in assisted living, they check on residents - with their own tile and showers and bathtubs - every few hours. My grandfather was stuck on the floor for awhile twice, both times without his fall alert “necklace” on (once in the bathroom in the middle of the night, once while he was changing and it was hanging on the side of the bed during that process, out of reach from the floor). The fall that ultimately led to his death was with my dad walking right next to him, and he significantly broke his fall, they went to the hospital immediately, etc, but the bump on landing was still just enough and in just the wrong place.

24/7 supervision - at home or in a care environment - only happens on suicide watch, I suspect, and even then I think it’s more “remove everything” than “someone actually right there in earshot or eyes-on 24/7.”

(Which is probably a good thing - no adult would *want* actual 24/7 supervision, and what people want matters. How crazy-making and infantilizing.)

Suicide watch is one to one. Eyes on constantly.

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I agree.  From what Jana posted and then who found the body, she was only by herself for a few hours.   That is a huge reach for Pickles to say that JB was too cheap for a nursing home.   

He is too cheap because his father was very frail and he was wheeled around in a office chair. 

[crazycatlady58]

34 minutes ago, Higgins said:

Suicide watch is one to one. Eyes on constantly.

Having someone watch me 24/7 would MAKE  me suicidal .

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

Thank you for that. I'm about to turn 71. I'm not as strong as I used to be but I'm not ready for a nursing home, FFS. I consider myself luckier than some contemporaries who are struggling with serious health issues, and I'm well aware of the passing years. I'm in better physical shape than some of my age peers, and not as fit as others whom I know. 

These days I wouldn't assume anything about a person's health or fitness to live independently, just based on their being aged 78. That would be just - ignorant.

[Jynnan tonnix]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Thank you for that. I'm about to turn 71. I'm not as strong as I used to be but I'm not ready for a nursing home, FFS. I consider myself luckier than some contemporaries who are struggling with serious health issues, and I'm well aware of the passing years. I'm in better physical shape than some of my age peers, and not as fit as others whom I know. 

These days I wouldn't assume anything about a person's health or fitness to live independently, just based on their being aged 78. That would be just - ignorant.

My mom, when she was in her mid-70's, was still spending every day she could outside in her yard gardening - which included tending to several large rock-gardens, clambering on and jumping between good-size boulders, weeding and clipping, even moving sizeable bushes from spot to spot as she decided they had outgrown their original space. Granted, Dad was still alive then as well, so she wasn't alone, per se. but he did leave not infrequently for a couple of weeks in Poland or involved in Polish Scouting camps and conferences.

[Higgins]

32 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Having someone watch me 24/7 would MAKE  me suicidal .

I know but that's the way it works.

[BigBingerBro]

I don't know anything about Mary and what her health status was, but I wouldn't be surprised that she became quite frail after her strokes at that age.  It can happen.  My mother, at age 72, was dealing with typical issues, like high blood pressure, etc.  But then she fell during the night and broke her hip.  After that, her health really took a dive and she died 5 months later.

Based on photos, Mary looked progressively weaker as time went on this year before her death.

[MMEButterfly]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The comment above strikes me as ageist. Most 78 year olds I have known are far from frail. My mom passed in her mid 70s and was anything but frail. My dad passed in his early 80s - two weeks after he power washed his girlfriend's home.

I have quite a ways to go before reaching my 70s, but I hope no one assumes just because of my age that I need some kind assistance to manage my days.

It's certainly more common for older folks to have serious medical events because bodies are not made to last forever, however it's unfair to think older folks need to be housed in nursing homes waiting for a medical event to occur. 

For my own peace of mind I'm going with Mary tripping, hitting her head, becoming unconscious and falling in the pool. Through not fault of her own or anyone else.

Me, too. People also need to remember many people in their 80s have not have serious medical events at all. 

[lookeyloo]

I'm hoping Mary's condition was not just that she was 78 - otherwise I should just sit down now and give up since I am 75.  I can go with that she had some strokes, other health issues we probably don't know about (or need to know) and maybe she became disoriented for a second and lost her balance.  Y'all know I am no fan of any of the Duggars but don't think they were totally thoughtless about Grandma Duggar.  Maybe she was having a good day and maybe Deanna said "mama, I'm going to the Walmart for a minute - do you need anything? Will you be okay til I get back?" Or some such thing.  People have strokes/heart attacks/fainting spells just out of the blue sometimes.  Again,no fan of the Duggars.