Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[kokapetl]

Was Derick still working at Walmart HQ when Israel was born? 

[dariafan]

I hope Jill is able to find an adult who can take her under their wing and help her be a person. Teach her how to BE a friend instead of a user. How to be alone during the day. How to use her time better and maybe become more fulfilled 

[Lunera]

5 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Was Derick still working at Walmart HQ when Israel was born? 

Yes. His linked in says he left Walmart on June 2015 and Israel was born in April.

[kokapetl]

6 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Yes. His linked in says he left Walmart on June 2015 and Israel was born in April.

Ok, so wouldn’t he have had white collar health insurance that would have paid the hospital bill? Paging dr @doodlebug . What sort of out of pocket costs would there be? 
 

Edited December 28, 2019 by kokapetl

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

This makes me really worry for Ivy. I have a feeling Jessa is a very “build a bridge and get over it” type of person. Not to say she doesn’t love her kids. But I don’t see her being very responsive if her daughter tells her about abuse. 
 

Eta: the other thing that is striking about Jessa is her body language compared to Jill. Jill looks so defeated, Jessa has a real military posture like she isn’t going to let some little thing like this occupy her mind.

I see what you’re saying, but I interpreted Jessa a bit differently. I think Jill (due to family dynamics and personality type) internalized more of the abuse and blamed herself for not being able to protect Joy. Jessa on the other hand 100% blames Josh, thinks he’s an asshole, and wants to build a bridge and get over it because she’s tired of her asshole pervert brother ruining her chances at a “good life”- when this interview was taken she didn’t know Counting On would be a big success.
 

She thought she was going to be denied a birth special and all that. When Ashley Madison came out Jill felt victimized by Josh again- Jessa thinks he’s scum and just wants to be done with him messing things up for HER. 

2 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Ok, so wouldn’t he have had white collar health insurance that would have paid the hospital bill? Paging dr @doodlebug  

I’m not @doodlebug, but many health insurance plans have higher deductibles, and only cover 80% after that. Easily several thousand dollars after a c-section and a NICU for Izzy. I need to check my privilege because I’m amazed how many people just don’t pay their hospital bills after they deliver.... You knew the baby was coming, and you didn’t save to pay the doctor/midwife???

[Growsonwalls]

I wonder if Jill to this day feels shame that she needed a C-section for Izzy. Here is an article by a dancer explaining the extreme shame she felt when she needed a C-section. This dancer isn't fundie. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/megan-fairchild-c-section-guilt-203500862.html

But Gwyneth Paltrow and a bunch of 'wellness' experts have conditioned regular women to believe childbirth is the most beautiful, spiritual experience a woman has and C-sections are "lazy." I can just imagine how Jill felt when she couldn't have her perfect Little House on the Prairie home birth.

[PikaScrewChu]

Remember that when Smuggar and JB/Michelle's utter stupidity was brought to light that 19 Kids and Counting was at its peak. The Jessa/Ben courtship attracted a lot of attention and finally seeing one of the J'Slaves married off (Jill) was something a lot of us thought would never happen. If I remember correctly the most watched episode was Ben and Jessa's wedding. Jill and Jessa carried the show to its current limping form. They probably have permanent back pain from doing so. 

The problem I have with Derick (and I've said this before) is he starts this every damn time the Duggars get some attention for something. Then he starts referring to an event in their lives, gets people riled up, and leaves it at that for another day. Either spill everything or shut up. The drip, drip, drip is annoying. 

That being said this is Jill's story to tell and we have Derick's biases in what is happening. I think Derick likes to stir shit when he gets to opportunity and it shouldn't be at Jill's expense. We legitimately do not know what Jill thinks of everything that has happened.

[Oldernowiser]

Gwyneth can take her smug rich white privilege and choke on it.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Gwyneth can take her smug rich white privilege and choke on it.

Indeed. It has always baffled me why anyone batshit crazy enough to name their company goop is listened to by anyone. LOL

That being said, I could totally see Jill being very depressed about having a C-section versus a vaginal birth. 😞 

[JoanArc]

8 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Gwyneth can take her smug rich white privilege and choke on it.

 You know, you’d be a much nicer person if you would shove a piece of Jade up your vagina on a regular basis. (Kidding!)

[doodlebug]

On 12/27/2019 at 2:36 PM, GeeGolly said:

Counting On was called Counting On with Jill and Jessa. I'm thinking they signed contracts. Maybe they didn't read them, but I think the contracts exist.

I think they signed contracts for JB to negotiate on their behalf and for any payments to go to an LLC controlled by JB.  TLC would not have filmed them if there hadn't been some sort of contract in place; but I think that both Jessa and Jill and the other adult kids, gave JB the legal right to control the whole kit n' caboodle.

[GeeGolly]

Just an FYI, psychiatrists do not do therapy, they prescribe medication and most psychologists these days do neuropsych testing and the like.

Most therapists these days are LICSWs or LMHCs.

[ozziemom]

I wonder if Jill is now remembering more details on what Josh did to her and her sisters and realizes how awful it truly was. It’s probably shocking to her that her parents basically did nothing to help the girls and she is now questioning her whole childhood. Maybe she is talking to Derek about it and that is making him angrier and unable to resist responding the way he is on SM. Hopefully she is getting real help and not just prayers.

[Mindthinkr]

I just saw this interview for the first time. I’m having trouble knowing if the girls really understand what their brother did to them. I agree with the poster up thread about Jill carrying weight on her back over protecting her younger sibs. She does seem to be burdened.  Jessa is an enigma to me. I think she has stored away the info and thrown away the key. It wasn’t pleasant to watch. 

Why ever once the parents sent Josh for help, they ever allowed him to come back in? To go on a reality show and try to project normal...well however that translates to such a large family. His faux pas just keep coming. 

I wonder that they tried to get the LLC as a church organization and thusly exempted from taxes. I’m sure JB  is in tight control of the finances. They are still out there conning. Josh is the only one stupid enough to get caught in their mind’s eye. I can’t even express a clear thought about all of this. Sigh. 

[doodlebug]

46 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Ok, so wouldn’t he have had white collar health insurance that would have paid the hospital bill? Paging dr @doodlebug . What sort of out of pocket costs would there be? 
 

It really depends on their insurance.  For all we know, JB told Derick that he had insurance for the whole family and there was no need for Derick to add Jill and the new baby to his Walmart coverage.  I am sure Walmart charges a monthly premium to employees for their health insurance and the amount depends on the number and ages of those being covered. Many large employers offer tiers of coverage, too.  So, for someone who is young and healthy, they can pay less for health insurance premiums every month but have a bigger out of pocket deductible to meet if they end up needing more care than they expected.  Maybe Derick did that, figuring that since Jill was going to have the baby at home, there weren't going to be any big bills from Israel's birth so it didn't matter if they had a $5000 deductible on their coverage.

I do think Derick was very naïve about the realities of Jill's midwifery training and experience as well as the potential need to go to the hospital and what that might cost.  However, a lot of young people are.

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

I wonder if Jill is now remembering more details on what Josh did to her and her sisters and realizes how awful it truly was. It’s probably shocking to her that her parents basically did nothing to help the girls and she is now questioning her whole childhood. Maybe she is talking to Derek about it and that is making him angrier and unable to resist responding the way he is on SM. Hopefully she is getting real help and not just prayers.

I think that's entirely possible--and also perhaps she has realized that what the family admitted Josh did is nowhere near as innocent as it was played off. I was always horrified that he continued to escalate in brazenness with younger and younger sisters. 😞

I don't know if Jill would discuss any of this with people she's met in church or her mother-in-law/sister-in-law via Derick's brother, but I hope she has realized that what they were acting like happened in every family is not normal by any means. I have 3 wonderful older brothers--1 full brother who is just a couple of years older and 2 half brothers who were teens when I was born--and I was gobsmacked that anyone (but especially people like the Duggars who are so uptight about normal physical contact) would pretend what Josh did was not that bad/within the realms of normal family behavior. That's not how brothers act with their sisters! (And I know all of us here know that--but I have been so horrified by that attitude the Duggars copped ever since the molestation scandal was revealed. I can't help but rant every time I think about it.)

Edited December 28, 2019 by Zella

[Tikichick]

22 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't believe for a second that he fell for a story like that. I could see Jana or JD or any of the other Duggar kids buying it because 1) they have been brainwashed from birth to accept Daddy's word without question and 2) they have absolutely no idea of how things work in the real world. But Derick can't possibly be naïve and unworldly enough to think that a major TV network doesn't pay the people who appear on it's shows. and even if he and Jill just appeared on the "specials" (which is a lie), TLC would have still required him to sign a contract spelling out how much he was being paid and that the money would be paid to Jim Bob's family trust and not directly to him. TLC would never risk paying the adult kids' money directly to Jim Bob without their written consent (they'd be facing the mother of all lawsuits if they did). Either he and Jill were paid directly by TLC (which would explain why they never seemed to be hurting for money) or he was perfectly aware that the money was being directed elsewhere. Despite his recent bravado, I think he's still more than a little afraid of Jim Bob and it's easier for him to say "TLC never paid us" than "Jill's father grabbed our money before we ever saw it". 

While I'm glad that he's starting to publicly throw some shade at Jim Bob, I'm not going to take anything he says at face value. IMHO, he's a liar and a coward who prefers to snipe at people from the safety of Instagram.

If Jill and Derrick, or any of the adults for that matter including Michelle, signed paperwork JB had drawn up creating a financial entity to receive $$ from the show and authorized JB to act as their power of attorney regarding show matters it's entirely possible only JB saw the actual dollar amounts from the show and has the ability to handle, control and account for those funds as he sees fit.  In effect JB could have easily positioned himself as a Chinese wall between the family and the production company and/or network.

I can easily see it being explained to Derrick as a tax shelter initially.  At that point JB was his mentor, Derrick was in his early twenties with probably little practical financial experience and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he didn't take a bit of a backseat to Jill in this particular matter at the time because Jill had grown up doing the show and trusted her father implicitly.    

[Temperance]

44 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I wonder if Jill to this day feels shame that she needed a C-section for Izzy. Here is an article by a dancer explaining the extreme shame she felt when she needed a C-section. This dancer isn't fundie. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/megan-fairchild-c-section-guilt-203500862.html

But Gwyneth Paltrow and a bunch of 'wellness' experts have conditioned regular women to believe childbirth is the most beautiful, spiritual experience a woman has and C-sections are "lazy." I can just imagine how Jill felt when she couldn't have her perfect Little House on the Prairie home birth.

Gwyneth Paltrow is not fundie and wouldn't have influence on Jill. But fundies have always glorified natural childbirth for decades now. A lot of fundies mistrust modern medicine and can't afford insurance. The Maxwell daughters-in-law have all had homebirths except Melanie (who's had complications).  Kelly Bates had homebirths until a dramatic one where she was rushed to the hospital. Those are just a few examples. 

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

 I agree that we don’t know, but given these people’s general beliefs, I think it’s unlikely they would see anyone more than a pastor who may or may not be qualified to help. 

Again, Derick is SBC and not Gothard.  The SBC members I know use certified professionals.  They may also talk to pastors at church, but the pastors at the church near me send people to licensed medical personnel. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Absolom

[Scarlett45]

@Tikichick I agree with your post above. 
 

We also have to remember at the time Derrick married Jill, his Mom was VERY sick (they thought she might not make it), he had one brother younger than him and his Dad was dead. If his Mom thought to counsel him she was SICK and focused on her chemo treatments (perfectly understandable), and Cathy was also a woman who lost both her parents before she was 21, reached out to her bio mother & was rejected, and buried her first husband. I think she was terrified Derrick would be alone and just wanted him married. 
 

I can’t stand Derrick and I think Cathy is a loon but given these circumstances I firmly believe it’s likely Derrick was lied to and manipulated regarding TLC, contracts, payment and filming requirements and it wasn’t until after Izzy was born he started to take a long hard look at the smoke and mirrors. 

[Tikichick]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think that's entirely possible--and also perhaps she has realized that what the family admitted Josh did is nowhere near as innocent as it was played off. I was always horrified that he continued to escalate in brazenness with younger and younger sisters. 😞

I don't know if Jill would discuss any of this with people she's met in church or her mother-in-law/sister-in-law via Derick's brother, but I hope she has realized that what they were acting like happened in every family is not normal by any means. I have 3 wonderful older brothers--1 full brother who is just a couple of years older and 2 half brothers who were teens when I was born--and I was gobsmacked that anyone (but especially people like the Duggars who are so uptight about normal physical contact) would pretend what Josh did was not that bad/within the realms of normal family behavior. That's not how brothers act with their sisters! (And I know all of us here know that--but I have been so horrified by that attitude the Duggars copped ever since the molestation scandal was revealed. I can't help but rant every time I think about it.)

Not in any way to excuse or defend JB and Michelle, but the sad and horrific truth is more families than not protect the abuser over the victims in these types of situations.  Their public profile and the high value they place on their holier than thou image merely guaranteed they would handle it the way they did.  

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Not in any way to excuse or defend JB and Michelle, but the sad and horrific truth is more families than not protect the abuser over the victims in these types of situations.  Their public profile and the high value they place on their holier than thou image merely guaranteed they would handle it the way they did.  

Oh I know that. I was on the receiving end of that bullshit as a child myself. That's probably why it makes me so angry. I understand Josh is still their son, but--just like every other piece of shit parent who chooses to protect the abuser over the victim--it's clear they don't give a flying fuck about those girls over their heir apparent/the person they choose to protect, and that makes me so mad I just about choke every time I think about it. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Zella

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Oh I know that. I was on the receiving end of that bullshit as a child myself. That's probably why it makes me so angry. I understand Josh is still their son, but--just like every other piece of shit parent who chooses to protect the abuser over the victim--it's clear they don't give a flying fuck about those girls over their heir apparent, and that makes me so mad I just about choke every time I think about it. 

I'm so sorry you understand it so well.  No one should ever have to.

My read on them is that it was more about the threat to their public image than loyalty to Josh, then or now.  He's one of 19.  If they could have jettisoned him at the time and avoided the risk of toppling off their public pedestals I absolutely believe for them image would have trumped emotional ties.

[Growsonwalls]

NOT to excuse JB and Michelle AT ALL but often times troubled children like Josh can overtake the whole family. The abuse isn't just directed at the siblings, it's often directed at the parents as well. Domestic violence is a complicated issue often because there's a thin line between being a victim and being an enabler.

I've known many families where one troubled child takes up so much energy and space that they lost track of the well-being of the other children. I don't know if this is what happened with JB and Michelle but it does happen. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

I'm so sorry you understand it so well.  No one should ever have to.

My read on them is that it was more about the threat to their public image than loyalty to Josh, then or now.  He's one of 19.  If they could have jettisoned him at the time and avoided the risk of toppling off their public pedestals I absolutely believe for them image would have trumped emotional ties.

Thank you for the kind words--it my case, it was a piece of shit stepparent that my mother defended and believed over me. 

I think if it was another one of the boys, they wouldn't have protected him to the extent they did Josh. The read I get--which could be wrong--is that Josh is Michelle's favorite. Because really, if they'd cut ties with Josh, I think that would have been a better PR move than continuing to defend him and support him. Even after the Ashley Madison scandal--which seems to have offended them more--Josh is still clearly welcomed into the family by his parents. 

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

NOT to excuse JB and Michelle AT ALL but often times troubled children like Josh can overtake the whole family. The abuse isn't just directed at the siblings, it's often directed at the parents as well. Domestic violence is a complicated issue often because there's a thin line between being a victim and being an enabler.

I've known many families where one troubled child takes up so much energy and space that they lost track of the well-being of the other children. I don't know if this is what happened with JB and Michelle but it does happen. 

I'd be more willing to buy that if JB and Michelle seemed to genuinely care about their kids otherwise. But nothing about the way they rear their children suggests that they have ever had their well-being at heart--they themselves have neglected and abused their kids with the way they sheltered them and refused to educate them and funneled money into a political campaign rather than into ensuring their kids weren't living like paupers. It's all about JB and Michelle and their egos. 

[libgirl2]

49 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

I wonder if Jill is now remembering more details on what Josh did to her and her sisters and realizes how awful it truly was. It’s probably shocking to her that her parents basically did nothing to help the girls and she is now questioning her whole childhood. Maybe she is talking to Derek about it and that is making him angrier and unable to resist responding the way he is on SM. Hopefully she is getting real help and not just prayers.

maybe more is coming out that JB didn't share with Derrick.

[Growsonwalls]

I know sexual abuse victims often have severe hangups surrounding sex/intimacy that last a lifetime. They don't manifest themselves linearly. Like for instance when Jill first married Derick and her goal was to have the perfect family these issues might not have been obvious. But now that the lust/limerence has faded I could see Jill having a lot of issues with intimacy which might explain Derick's anger. He might feel like Josh is ruining their marriage.

[Zella]

14 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I know sexual abuse victims often have severe hangups surrounding sex/intimacy that last a lifetime. They don't manifest themselves linearly. Like for instance when Jill first married Derick and her goal was to have the perfect family these issues might not have been obvious. But now that the lust/limerence has faded I could see Jill having a lot of issues with intimacy which might explain Derick's anger. He might feel like Josh is ruining their marriage.

I've also sometimes wondered if some of her issues with her kids are due to the abuse she suffered as a kid. Like, I wonder if she projects her anger at Josh onto Izzy since he is the oldest boy. 😞 

[CherryMalotte]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

It really depends on their insurance.  For all we know, JB told Derick that he had insurance for the whole family and there was no need for Derick to add Jill and the new baby to his Walmart coverage.  I am sure Walmart charges a monthly premium to employees for their health insurance and the amount depends on the number and ages of those being covered. Many large employers offer tiers of coverage, too.  So, for someone who is young and healthy, they can pay less for health insurance premiums every month but have a bigger out of pocket deductible to meet if they end up needing more care than they expected.  Maybe Derick did that, figuring that since Jill was going to have the baby at home, there weren't going to be any big bills from Israel's birth so it didn't matter if they had a $5000 deductible on their coverage.

All of this - I've been employed in the medical insurance industry for 30 years (holy shit, did I really type that - wow!) and with the trends now a lot of younger and healthy singles and couples choose to have the higher deductible plans, and may have a health savings account tied into that.  Still, I'd say her bills were considerable.  C-sections aren't cheap, and what a lot of people don't realize (oh yes, because I hear it EVERYDAY) that just because you have a hospital stay it doesn't mean that it's all inclusive - you will receive bills from the person that read an EKG, an x-ray, the labs, any consulting physicians on staff at the hospital, the anesthesiologist - it's all separate.  And the baby's billing is separate.  Years ago some places would just include baby with mom's billing but that's rare now - that I've seen.  So if they had a high deductible plan, even with some health savings or reimbursement they'd have some big bills. With a regular deducible of $1000-$1500 and then benefits at 80% up to an out of pocket of let's say $4000 out of pocket that's a chunk of change.

I'd wager as others have said after the honeymoon period waned, the imperfect (to Jill) delivery of Izzy, and then the whole CA debacle it dawned to Dreck just what he'd married into and how damaged she was. 

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Yep, all that flailing around on social media is what concerns me. Maybe he can connect the dots so that all the bits he's divulged over time make some sense, but at the moment they don't. 

I think that he's crafty enough to pick his moments and give us enough crumbs so others can connect the dots.  Will never be a fan of his but if he's putting enough clues out there so his father in law's shady business dealings are exposed, good on him.  That whole government investigation isn't over yet either - all these kids with all these LLC's?  That puzzle will eventually be put together.  Just because we aren't hearing about it doesn't mean it's not happening.   

Edited December 28, 2019 by CherryMalotte

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Again, Derick is SBC and not Gothard.  The SBC members I know use certified professionals.  They may also talk to pastors at church, but the pastors at the church near me send people to licensed medical personnel. 

 Just because they attend more mainstream denomination doesn’t really mean much of anything. I can’t count the number of people who go to normal churches that I know who still pretty much deny mental illness is a thing, something that can be taken care of outside of religion/prayer, or that mental health professionals actually know what they’re doing. 

 I mean, FFS, they think Jill is a qualified midwife with college credits.  I do really hope she’s in therapy though. 

[monkeypox]

: 

Quote

I understand Josh is still their son, but--just like every other piece of shit parent who chooses to protect the abuser over the victim--it's clear they don't give a flying fuck about those girls over their heir apparent/the person they choose to protect, and that makes me so mad I just about choke every time I think about it. 

This is a rough transcript of part of the Megyn Kelly interview with Jim Bob and MEEchelle in 2015.

Quote

Megyn Kelly: As a parent did you feel guilty when you learned that the behavior had continued, and that other girls in the house had become victims?

JB: Yes, I think as parents you feel like a failure when one of your kids does something wrong, like, "If I had done more training, or maybe something else, that this wouldn't have happened." But the truth is that kids will make their own choices, and they will make their own decisions, even though you've taught them what's right and wrong.

MK: I'm asking more as the father of these girls, than as the father of Josh. It must have been very hard look at your little one and know that the behavior had been ongoing, as difficult as your position was.

JB: Right, I was so thankful though that Josh came and told us, and our girls, even though this was a bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse.

Jim Bob and MEEchelle cared about protecting Josh and only Josh. The girls were an unimportant afterthought who should be grateful that it wasn't worse. I'm so angry on behalf of those girls, who are now all young women.

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 You know, you’d be a much nicer person if you would shove a piece of Jade up your vagina on a regular basis. (Kidding!)

Gwynnie also steams her vagina regularly. Yeah she is a strange one. Maybe the steam cooked her brain.

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Lunera said:

I have watched this interview a few times and everytime I'm shocked at how unbothered Jessa is. The way she just rolls her eyes and laughs things off. I think she is worse off than Jill because she keeps things bottled up. The way she says Josh was really sly and good at molesting them is messed up. They are so damn brainwashed. 

She actually seems somewhat sociopathic.

[Temperance]

I always thought that JB and Michelle protected Josh to protect themselves. They were the perfect parents, with a huge family which showed Jesus loved them. Their egos and reputations were on the line. Plus if they were blanket training, it might have come out and that might be counted as physical abuse by the parents. 

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

Austin said he and Joy weren't paid for the show because it was a ministry. 

Thanks Lascuba! I couldn't remember what he said exactly and I didn't want to get it wrong.

@Zella So sorry for what you went through. Hugs! 🏵️💮🌹

[Dimi1]

so who else was molested besides Jessa, Jill and Joy??? I cant remember...I think one thing I am seeing in that interview...the lack of acknowledgement of molestation being a violation not just of a sexual nature but of many other boundaries being broken...physical, mental, emotional and spiritual...I think if the girls do not remember the touching...they are beginning to face the fact that a bigger violation has taken place in a  way...and they were not protected...I see Jill going full bore to acknowledge and accept and work through ..and Jessa still being in denial-keeping tight control of everything with a facade that all is AOK...

[Lunera]

2 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

so who else was molested besides Jessa, Jill and Joy??? I cant remember...I think one thing I am seeing in that interview...the lack of acknowledgement of molestation being a violation not just of a sexual nature but of many other boundaries being broken...physical, mental, emotional and spiritual...I think if the girls do not remember the touching...they are beginning to face the fact that a bigger violation has taken place in a  way...and they were not protected...I see Jill going full bore to acknowledge and accept and work through ..and Jessa still being in denial-keeping tight control of everything with a facade that all is AOK...

Jinger and the babysitter. I think Pickles outed her.

[Dimi1]

3 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Jinger and the babysitter. I think Pickles outed her.

Ah...Jinger....I do not see her dealing with this at ALL...

[Oldernowiser]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 You know, you’d be a much nicer person if you would shove a piece of Jade up your vagina on a regular basis. (Kidding!)

But it has to be GOOP jade with a 1000% markup, right?

 I will begrudgingly admit that I am jetlagged and on muscle relaxers having severely strained my back, so am crankier than usual. But when ANYONE tries to make women feel less-than in order to make money off them, let alone regarding the manner by which they give birth, I get stabby. 

Did the mother end up with a baby? That’s a beautiful thing. The process is completely up to the mother to decide, and the judgers bleating about what’s “natural” or “beautiful” can just get back to their own lives and STFU. 

Childbirth is not a competitive event.

[sleepysuzy]

Regarding Jill, molestation, and childbirth: many women who have been sexually abused or assaulted find aspects of childbirth re-traumatizing, and I've known many who especially had a hard time after a csection. Csections require having a spinal and being immobilized, often with arms strapped down. I would not be surprised if her csections brought up residual trauma, feeling her body had betrayed her and feeling a loss of control.

[Scarlett45]

14 minutes ago, sleepysuzy said:

Regarding Jill, molestation, and childbirth: many women who have been sexually abused or assaulted find aspects of childbirth re-traumatizing, and I've known many who especially had a hard time after a csection. Csections require having a spinal and being immobilized, often with arms strapped down. I would not be surprised if her csections brought up residual trauma, feeling her body had betrayed her and feeling a loss of control.

Given the way Jill reacted to dental surgery (this was before the molestations were public knowledge, and I wondered what happened to this girl to make her behave this way), that seems likely. 

[kokapetl]

If I had to guess why Jill is probably depressed, I’d say it’s largely because she’s lonely and isolated. Can anyone tell me what the self help books she’s read are?

As for Derick, I think his behaviour is aggravating the situation, and to me it indicates that no one is getting any therapy.

[ms.o]

I think the Duggar victims were forced into forgiving josh and told that this wasn’t that uncommon in families. Plus all the NIKE bullshit, lawn mowing bikinis and general modesty bs, Jill probably truly truly thought she brought some of the abuse on to herself. (She did not)

 
Then everything became public. She’s on social media, she has dericks family, etc. there HAD to be people reaching out to her to be reassuring and tell her jt wasn’t her fault - duh - but to her? That had to be mind blowing because it went against everything she had been raised to believe. Maybe she got into therapy, maybe she started reading stuff online. But I think Jill started to realize that none of jt was normal and that her parents and her church betrayed her like that.  Maybe the cracks started then? Opened her eyes A bit  to normal vs fundie.

i would almost think the years long betrayal probably hurt her more. She adored JB. 

[Sew Sumi]

10 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

If I had to guess why Jill is probably depressed, I’d say it’s largely because she’s lonely and isolated. Can anyone tell me what the self help books she’s read are?

As for Derick, I think his behaviour is aggravating the situation, and to me it indicates that no one is getting any therapy.

I don't have the exact titles to Jill's reading list, but she's reading a lot about separating oneself from toxic relationships. 

[fonfereksglen]

8 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

Derick actually used the words abuse victim in reference to Jill. That to me Is HUGE.

Going back after following all of the twitter screen caps and conversation over the last two days, of Derrick's posts, this one is the most one that struck me as authentic.  While his correct use of calling his wife an assault victims is significant, the threat of being sued by TLC if they don't film makes sense after what happened to Jon Gosselin.  They had no choice but to film no matter how fragile Jill was because of multiple reasons.

Fortunately for Jill and Derrick, they were able to escape because  the other two unmarried abuse victims,  Jing and Joy were quickly married off.  Wedding and babies are why most people watch this show.

[madpsych78]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Just an FYI, psychiatrists do not do therapy, they prescribe medication and most psychologists these days do neuropsych testing and the like.

Most therapists these days are LICSWs or LMHCs.

Some therapists are also LPCs (Licensed Professional Counselors). Although it's possible that the abbreviations may just be different from state to state.

However, I have to disagree about psychologists. Most psychologists do not necessarily do neuropsych testing. Most psychologists conduct psychological evaluations, which may include intelligence testing, academic achievement if pediatric, interviews, record review, observations, and administration of objective and/or projective instruments. Only a subset of psychologists receive the extra training to conduct neuropsychological assessments. 

Furthermore, many psychologists prefer therapy over evaluations and will primarily provide therapy services, even if they are qualified to test.

But I completely agree about psychiatrists. They are medical doctors and their main role is to prescribe medication. However, my supervisor, who is a pediatric neuropsychologist, actually thinks psychiatrists overmedicate kids and prefers to send our patients elsewhere to discuss medication options. In a few states (not mine - Texas), the law allows for clinical psychologists to have prescription privileges, provided they have gone through training in psychopharmacology.

I don't think Jill needs medication at this point unless her mental health becomes really bad, but I do think a good therapist would be beneficial for her, regardless of the nature of their specialty.

Edited December 29, 2019 by madpsych78

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, monkeypox said:

Jim Bob and MEEchelle cared about protecting Josh and only Josh

 I disagree, they only cared about protecting THEMSELVES, and the little power hierarchy both in their house and in Northwest Arkansas that they spent decades developing.

[kokapetl]

Psychiatrists can do psychotherapy, but they don’t do it for cheap. 

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

Childbirth is not a competitive event.

Unless you are a Duggar. Then all bets are off.

[drafan]

Does Derick realize that all his financial woes would be over forever if/when he writes the insider tell-all?

C'mon , Derick, we've got your back. Just be truthful and accurate ...put that 1/2 law degree to good use.

Edited December 29, 2019 by drafan

[Growsonwalls]

Derick is the most vocal in-law but if you think of it many of the in-laws seem to have Duggar Exhaustion Syndrome (DES). Look at that video Jessa made during Christmas. Abbie and Lauren had identical scowls and tired, sad eyes.

Could we hope for a joint tell-all? Too much to hope for?