Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Growsonwalls]

I wonder if the final rift came bc Jill can have no more “blessings”? To JB that’s effectively saying the gravy train has ended (for this child). So without the possibility of more blessings Jill is worth less than Smuggar.

[galaxygirl76]

18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I wonder if the final rift came bc Jill can have no more “blessings”? To JB that’s effectively saying the gravy train has ended (for this child). So without the possibility of more blessings Jill is worth less than Smuggar.

Jill is female therefore has been worth less than Sexpest since birth as evidenced by how Boob and Meechelle handled the molestation.

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

he was pretty naive/stupid to believe that “no contract” volunteer ministry story.

I don't believe for a second that he fell for a story like that. I could see Jana or JD or any of the other Duggar kids buying it because 1) they have been brainwashed from birth to accept Daddy's word without question and 2) they have absolutely no idea of how things work in the real world. But Derick can't possibly be naïve and unworldly enough to think that a major TV network doesn't pay the people who appear on it's shows. and even if he and Jill just appeared on the "specials" (which is a lie), TLC would have still required him to sign a contract spelling out how much he was being paid and that the money would be paid to Jim Bob's family trust and not directly to him. TLC would never risk paying the adult kids' money directly to Jim Bob without their written consent (they'd be facing the mother of all lawsuits if they did). Either he and Jill were paid directly by TLC (which would explain why they never seemed to be hurting for money) or he was perfectly aware that the money was being directed elsewhere. Despite his recent bravado, I think he's still more than a little afraid of Jim Bob and it's easier for him to say "TLC never paid us" than "Jill's father grabbed our money before we ever saw it". 

While I'm glad that he's starting to publicly throw some shade at Jim Bob, I'm not going to take anything he says at face value. IMHO, he's a liar and a coward who prefers to snipe at people from the safety of Instagram.

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Like she ever left!

What?  Who is she now?

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

I don't believe for a second that he fell for a story like that. I could see Jana or JD or any of the other Duggar kids buying it because 1) they have been brainwashed from birth to accept Daddy's word without question and 2) they have absolutely no idea of how things work in the real world. But Derick can't possibly be naïve and unworldly enough to think that a major TV network doesn't pay the people who appear on it's shows. and even if he and Jill just appeared on the "specials" (which is a lie), TLC would have still required him to sign a contract spelling out how much he was being paid and that the money would be paid to Jim Bob's family trust and not directly to him. TLC would never risk paying the adult kids' money directly to Jim Bob without their written consent (they'd be facing the mother of all lawsuits if they did). Either he and Jill were paid directly by TLC (which would explain why they never seemed to be hurting for money) or he was perfectly aware that the money was being directed elsewhere. Despite his recent bravado, I think he's still more than a little afraid of Jim Bob and it's easier for him to say "TLC never paid us" than "Jill's father grabbed our money before we ever saw it". 

 

But I think Derrick looked upon him as a father figure. Wasn't he his prayer partner or something? Derrick might have really trusted him 100% 

[JustRosie]

Adding a little perspective  to the conversation...

 

Our son has been acting/modelling professionally since age 5. Some work was unionized and some was not. All unionized jobs had a contract in his name. Pay cheque’s arrived in his name. His agent has a contract with him in his name. Of course we signed all contracts on his behalf, but he was legally protected by contracts in his name. Additionally, unionized jobs have a requirement that a percentage of his earnings be taken before the cheque is sent to him and put in an education fund for him. He can access the funds when he goes to college. It is a legal requirement that those funds be put aside for his education. If we had asked for those contracts or pay cheque’s be written in our names, they would have told us to pound sand  (we would never have done this anyway  it’s his money, he earned it).

 

Hopefully, TLC has contracts in each child’s name. This would mean each child has been paid and that there is an education fund for each child to access too. I hope these kids know this. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[lookeyloo]

1 minute ago, Namaste said:

Adding a little perspective  to the conversation...

 

Our son has been acting/modelling professionally since age 5. Some work was unionized and some was not. All unionized jobs had a contract in his name. Pay cheque’s arrived in his name. His agent has a contract with him in his name. Of course we signed all contracts on his behalf, but he was legally protected by contracts in his name. Additionally, unionized jobs have a requirement that a percentage of his earnings be taken before the cheque is sent to him and put in an education fund for him. He can access the funds when he goes to college. It is a legal requirement that those funds be put aside for his education. If we had asked for those contracts or pay cheque’s be written in our names, they would have told us to pound sand  (we would never have done this anyway  it’s his money, he earned it).

 

Hopefully, TLC has contracts in each child’s name. This would mean each child has been paid and that there is an education fund for each child to access too. I hope these kids know this. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

Are you in the US?  Are things the same everywhere?

[P2C2E]

You don't need to sign a contract that says you get paid. All you need to sign is a waiver for filming. TLC could absolutely have a reality show where no one is paid a salary but instead receives paid trips, paid weddings, etc. It is completely believable that the contract is with JB and his LLC, and that all the kidults have merely signed waivers for filming. They may believe that they get freebies but there is no salaried compensation because it is a ministry. 

They have been raised in an environment that teaches the patriarch knows what is best and that he will provide for the family. They have not been taught critical thinking and to ask questions. They don't ask where or how money and income is obtained. Derick probably thought that an upstanding Christian man would not be lying about how their show worked. Maybe he did start asking questions. Maybe he thought they had a contract but it was really a waiver. Maybe he started learning and thinking critically. Maybe this is what spurred him towards law school. 

We only have pieces of the story. But I don't think that Derick is necessarily being contradictory. As time passes and you gain more information, things may be looked at differently. What he called a contract before, he may now realize was never a contract. He certainly has more knowledge around legal matters now than he did a few years ago. 

[JustRosie]

1 minute ago, lookeyloo said:

Are you in the US?  Are things the same everywhere?

Canada. 

[lookeyloo]

1 minute ago, Namaste said:

Canada. 

I wonder if the rules are the same.

[Zella]

I'm also not sure appearing on a reality show would be handled contractually the same way as a minor who is acting/modeling professionally for unionized roles. Does anyone know? 

My understanding is a lot of kids on reality shows are exploited financially--or were. Maybe things have changed. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Zella

[fonfereksglen]

4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Adding a little perspective  to the conversation...

 

Our son has been acting/modelling professionally since age 5. Some work was unionized and some was not. All unionized jobs had a contract in his name. Pay cheque’s arrived in his name. His agent has a contract with him in his name. Of course we signed all contracts on his behalf, but he was legally protected by contracts in his name. Additionally, unionized jobs have a requirement that a percentage of his earnings be taken before the cheque is sent to him and put in an education fund for him. He can access the funds when he goes to college. It is a legal requirement that those funds be put aside for his education. If we had asked for those contracts or pay cheque’s be written in our names, they would have told us to pound sand  (we would never have done this anyway  it’s his money, he earned it).

 

Hopefully, TLC has contracts in each child’s name. This would mean each child has been paid and that there is an education fund for each child to access too. I hope these kids know this. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

Reality show participants are not eligible to join SAG so they have zero rights typical in the Industry.

[JustRosie]

1 minute ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if the rules are the same.

I believe there is something called a Coogan account in the US which is for child actors’ earnings?  Not sure. 

2 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Reality show participants are not eligible to join SAG so they have zero rights typical in the Industry.

Yeah, that might be the difference!

[fonfereksglen]

10 minutes ago, Namaste said:

I believe there is something called a Coogan account in the US which is for child actors’ earnings?  Not sure. 

Not really.  That does not cover reality shows.  The Coogan law also allows parents or guardians to bleed their earnings dry by claiming agent fees and living expenses,  which is why so many child stars file for emancipation from their parents as minor teens.

After following the Gosselin saga forever, even with a state law passed, those slaves were paid a small percentage, which was controlled by only one parent recently.  A lot of Interesting going on with the Gosselins recently,  including illegal filming without permits with TLC looking the other way.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by fonfereksglen

[GeeGolly]

Regardless of contracts or knowledge of payments, not one Duggar adult or child is living in poverty. And none of the adults appear to have a full time job.

If JB is doling out the money, it seems to still be happening.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

Like so many things Derick says, this strikes me as a partial truth.

Jessa gave birth in her home, not the TTH. Jessa and Ben own their home, and Derick specifically says "the house" meaning the TTH, not their own home. She may, of course, have spent part of her labor at the TTH, but Derick is just so untruthful so much of the time that I kind of doubt it.

While I'm 100% sure that JB is an asshole and a control freak, I think that Derick is telling partial truths about being "allowed" at the TTH, too. Maybe they have to have permission to visit because of filming? If Derick and Jill are lolling around the TTH during filming, they may need to sign waivers to appear -- and Derick may be unwilling to do that. That that cuts into JB's revenue stream -- not something he's going to be okay with under any circumstances.

Yes, Jessa spent part of her labor at the TTH, walking up and down the stairs. Jill was there.

[Marigold]

I think that when the kids were younger, Jim Bob and Michelle said it was ALL ministry and no payments/salary involved, making them look like ministers and martyrs. 

As the kids turned into adults, they figured it out, so that part I find hard to believe. 

Jim Bob must have a corporation and that gets payments.  Jim Bob then hands out what the kid needs. A house. A car. etc.  Cash would allow the kidult to be too independent. 

Maybe Derick was looking for some money and TLC said "talk to Jim Bob".  Remember Derick said they made no money from the birth special and that annoyed him. 

[Sew Sumi]

6 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I think that when the kids were younger, Jim Bob and Michelle said it was ALL ministry and no payments/salary involved, making them look like ministers and martyrs. 

As the kids turned into adults, they figured it out, so that part I find hard to believe. 

Jim Bob must have a corporation and that gets payments.  Jim Bob then hands out what the kid needs. A house. A car. etc.  Cash would allow the kidult to be too independent. 

Maybe Derick was looking for some money and TLC said "talk to Jim Bob".  Remember Derick said they made no money from the birth special and that annoyed him. 

Well, there's enough cash to keep Lauren in cool hats and baby vests. Josiah ain't making that kind of money selling junkers.

[Zella]

I'm finding articles online that are several years old, but the gist seems to be that kids on reality shows are not considered employees in the same way a child actor is on a scripted show, with the argument being it is more akin to a documentary. Of course, one could debate the reality of that claim, but it seems to be the basis for why reality show minors cam be stiffed out of money and are not covered by protections extended to child actors. Seems like a lot of them--at least as of a few years ago--didn't even have work permits for this reason.

That being said, I do think the adult Duggars are being compensated for in some way, though I think JB undoubtedly angles it to retain maximum control and power.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Zella

[Jeanne222]

On 12/26/2019 at 10:10 AM, BitterApple said:

I hope that whatever's going on, Jill is okay with it. It makes me sad to think she wanted to spend Christmas with her family and Derick wouldn't allow it. This would've been the perfect year too, with Smuggar and his brood being out of town. 

I suspect this is why Dillard is telling.  Jill was sad at Christmas!

[Lisa418722]

I think in the beginning Boob did tell his kids, "this is a ministry and TLC will gift us with trips and meals, a new home, etc. as payment for our ministry."  Probably when Jill and Derick met, they didn't talk about any of these thing - after all they never had a chance to be alone - and Boob wasn't going to tell Derick the truth about the money (and Jill had no idea I bet).  Then TLC offered to follow them to CA while they were playing missionary. Then along came Sam's birth and whatever happened there. At that point, Derick may have thought, "why aren't we being paid - TLC should at least pay all the medical bills."  Instead he went off on Jazz and TLC let him go (I don't remember the exact timing and I'm too lazy to go back and look it up).  Now that he is in law school and learning about contracts and Jill is breaking free from her upbringing by wearing pants, piercing her nose, cutting her hair, maybe they have decided this is the time to put things out there and see what happens.   All this to say, I do worry about Jill and her emotional health.  I hope she is able to stay strong though all of this.

[Marigold]

12 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well, there's enough cash to keep Lauren in cool hats and baby vests. Josiah ain't making that kind of money selling junkers.

True, maybe the MALES are on a payroll????  The girls just get what Jim Bob gets them. 

[katycat74]

Derrick comments on his IG that the show is under only one contract and JB is the ONLY one with a contract. That blows my mind..though guess it shouldn't.

 

[Spencer Hastings]

If I were a gambling kind of girl, I would bet that whatever contract JB had with TLC during 19K&C was never changed or renegotiated when the show became Counting On.  TLC changed the name of the show and the “stars” for lip service or rebranding purposes but the money has always gone to JB.  Yes, they “cancelled” 19 kids and we saw more of Jessa and Jill for a bit but we are essentially watching the same show today.  They probably just waited for the dust to settle, took a hiatus, and carried on with a new name.  Literally everything else, including who would get the paycheck, stayed the same.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[dargosmydaddy]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It might explain why the sisters are so distant while Jill seems to have relationships with the male kid Duggar’s and Michelle.

Except she doesn't seem to have a relationship with anyone lately. We got the one picture of Sinner Twin at the house on Christmas (eve?), but in looking at Jessa's Christmas video, he and Derrick were paired for the gift exchange, so he was probably "allowed" over to the house to pick up and drop off the Dillard family gifts. Other than that, we had the party at the park (was that Israel's birthday? Sam's? I can't remember, but it was awhile ago) with Michelle and the younger kids in attendance, and Jill with Joy at the hospital after Annabell, when Michelle was also there. Other than that... seems like they have very little interaction. This from a girl who was *super* close to her buddy group, including after her marriage. Now she never seems to see any of them.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

 he and Derrick were paired for the gift exchange, so he was probably "allowed" over to the house to pick up and drop off the Dillard family gifts.

Aha I was wondering why he was the lone one over there and how the gift exchange would work without them being present, but that makes sense. 

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

If I were a gambling kind of girl, I would bet that whatever contract JB had with TLC during 19K&C was never changed or renegotiated when the show became Counting On.  TLC changed the name of the show and the “stars” for lip service or rebranding purposes but the money has always gone to JB.  Yes, they “cancelled” 19 kids and we saw more of Jessa and Jill for a bit but we are essentially watching the same show today.  They probably just waited for the dust to settle, took a hiatus, and carried on with a new name.  Literally everything else, including who would get the paycheck, stayed the same.

I seen it speculated that Jim Bob himself was behind the release of the molestation info to reboot the show into a form to marry off the kids. I’m not sure if I believe it, but it’s definitely possible

[Sew Sumi]

Why didn't Jill go to deliver the gifts? I guess she was cooking? 

[dargosmydaddy]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why didn't Jill go to deliver the gifts?

Because apparently that would take an express invitation from Lord Jim Bob, which he doubtlessly did not issue...

[galaxychaser]

I’m saddened to hear that Jill had to ask Jim to be with Jessa. How cruel if it’s true that Jim isn’t allowing Jill to visit home when she wants.

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Because apparently that would take an express invitation from Lord Jim Bob, which he doubtlessly did not issue...

And he invited Derelict? Hardly!

[dargosmydaddy]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

And he invited Derelict? Hardly!

No, no, the picture was of Jeremiah (Sinner Twin) at the Dillards' house. I speculated that he was "allowed" to go there to drop off and pick up gifts.

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

No, no, the picture was of Jeremiah (Sinner Twin) at the Dillards' house. I speculated that he was "allowed" to go there to drop off and pick up gifts.

Oh okay, got it. That makes sense. 

[Zella]

Man, I am just envisioning how awkward the arranging of logistics for that hostage, I mean, gift exchange was. 

[Sew Sumi]

24 minutes ago, Zella said:

Man, I am just envisioning how awkward the arranging of logistics for that hostage, I mean, gift exchange was. 

How hands-on do you think Boob was? Or did he let Mooch and Jill hash it out?

[galaxychaser]

JIm kept all his kids uneducated for a reason. They are brainwashed/too uneducated to question anything. Jim the shepherd leading his kids/sheep to his desired destination.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

How hands-on do you think Boob was? Or did he let Mooch and Jill hash it out?

I'm torn. There's a part of me that thinks Jim Bob was the one who demanded complete control--he's the one who called and made the arrangements, etc. But then there's another part of me that could totally see him not wanting to speak to Derick or even Jill at all and delegating to Michelle. I doubt Sinner Twin had a hand in anything other than being given his marching orders. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Zella

[Sew Sumi]

I'm surprised that they didn't send Jill's buddy, James. However, he may have been busy with Lauren Caldwell. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[crazycatlady58]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

What?  Who is she now?

Yes I would like to know also.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm surprised that they didn't send Jill's buddy, James. 

I think Jim Bob would consider that too conciliatory of a gesture. 

[Oldernowiser]

41 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I seen it speculated that Jim Bob himself was behind the release of the molestation info to reboot the show into a form to marry off the kids. I’m not sure if I believe it, but it’s definitely possible

I don’t believe it for a second, not least because it made MOTY and UberSperm look bad. Guys like JB are all about what they look like to others. “Yeah, our  first kid felt up our other kids plus some stranger and then tried to screw around on his wife but he felt bad about it so that’s all fine because Jesus” is NOT a good look.

[Jeanne222]

The more I read and think about it Derrick is making sense.  These Dugger kids have been working for years and have very little to show for it.

John and Abby are living in an old trailer.  Joy and her husband in a camper.  The other boy and his wife live in a lot cabin relocated to the Dugger compound.  All those kids get is free lot rent!

Jesse and Ben live in the tiny mold house and Jeremy and Jinger are dwelling in a gift house.

One would think after years of appearing on the show they would be able to pay their hospital bills and afford nice homes.

Look at what other reality kids have.  Teen Mom's live in mcmansions.  How come the Dugger kids have nothing?

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I think Jim Bob would consider that too conciliatory of a gesture. 

Or maybe James doesn't give two shits about Jill any longer and asked to be removed from this duty. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

Or maybe James doesn't give two shits about Jill any longer and asked to be removed from this duty. 

That's possible, but I could also totally see Jim Bob refusing to let it be any of the kids Jill was close to. I think Sinner Twin just drew the shitty end of the stick and got stuck with it as the one who drew Derick's name. 

[Jeanne222]

I think Derrick and Jill aren't allowed at the house alone because Derrick filmed Michelle yelling at Johanna!  Then made it public.

[lookeyloo]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think Derrick and Jill aren't allowed at the house alone because Derrick filmed Michelle yelling at Johanna!  Then made it public.

And he might clue some of them in on the shenanigans.

[fonfereksglen]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Or maybe James doesn't give two shits about Jill any longer and asked to be removed from this duty. 

Parental mind games aka emotional abuse.  Parents alienating siblings or other family members is classic emotional abuse.  You never know if you can talk to x or y or z from one day to the next.  And then if you guess wrong ..... verbal abuse is relentless until the start of the next game. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Parental mind games aka emotional abuse.  Parents alienating siblings or other family members is classic emotional abuse.  You never know if you can talk to x or y or z from one day to the next.  And then if you guess wrong ..... verbal abuse is relentless until the start of the next game. 

 

 

 

 

 

Which could be why James may not care for Jill any longer. The pressure on him and Jenni must be intense. 😢

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Jeeves]

InTouch has picked up the story - but it's mainly a rehash of Derick's IG comments that have already been posted here.

[xwordfanatik]

33 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think Derrick and Jill aren't allowed at the house alone because Derrick filmed Michelle yelling at Johanna!  Then made it public.

I must have missed that!  Michelle raised her baby voice?  Tabloid fodder, for sure.