Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[zoomama]

49 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Parental mind games aka emotional abuse.  Parents alienating siblings or other family members is classic emotional abuse.  You never know if you can talk to x or y or z from one day to the next.  And then if you guess wrong ..... verbal abuse is relentless until the start of the next game. 

 

 

 

 

 

this sounds a bit like what i have read about the plath family and what they have done to the older so  etc.

[Sew Sumi]

3 minutes ago, zoomama said:

this sounds a bit like what i have read about the plath family and what they have done to the older so  etc.

It's exactly what the Plaths did to Ethan and his wife (the bad influence) Olivia.

[JoanArc]

43 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I must have missed that!  Michelle raised her baby voice?  Tabloid fodder, for sure.

Honestly, it was a very mild change in her voice. I think too much Is being made of it. She was still a baby voice, just not a camera ready baby voice.

[JustRosie]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

JIm kept all his kids uneducated for a reason. They are brainwashed/too uneducated to question anything. Jim the shepherd leading his kids/sheep to his desired destination.

I can’t imagine not educating my children. I just can’t. 

[Absolom]

4 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

can't possibly be naïve and unworldly enough to think that a major TV network doesn't pay the people who appear on it's shows

TLC isn't a major network, but one of the secondary players and shockingly enough people appear on it all the time without payment or a contract.  All it takes is a release.  I know people who have been on TLC shows and their "payment" was a gift basket and a copy of the episode.  TLC has been in my experience a master of getting people to participate for the fame or "education" of it all or to participate for extremely low compensation or the freebie of a trip or activity.  

[Absolom]

4 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if the rules are the same.

Not at all.  Each state sets their own rules for children working.  Arkansas basically has none for this situation.  Coogan law does not apply in Arkansas.  SAG as noted above does not apply.  No TLC show is SAG qualified.  The production team doesn't even qualify for guild membership.  It's a big issue in the industry.  It's also part of what keeps reality shows so cheap to make.

4 hours ago, Zella said:

I'm also not sure appearing on a reality show would be handled contractually the same way as a minor who is acting/modeling professionally for unionized roles. Does anyone know? 

My understanding is a lot of kids on reality shows are exploited financially--or were. Maybe things have changed. 

Acting (true acting) has guild protection and requires contracts.  California courts ruled that children on reality shows were working and therefore covered by workplace protections and Coogan requirements for productions in California including contracts filed with the court system and therefore publicly available. Thank you Octomom.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by Absolom

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

That's possible, but I could also totally see Jim Bob refusing to let it be any of the kids Jill was close to. I think Sinner Twin just drew the shitty end of the stick and got stuck with it as the one who drew Derick's name. 

Yeah, I’m wondering why Jeremiah of all people?  Seems random, of all the possible family members, for it to be him alone to stop over. Unless they have a particularly special relationship I’m not remembering?

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, awaken said:

Yeah, I’m wondering why Jeremiah of all people?  Seems random, of all the possible family members, for it to be him alone to stop over. Unless they have a particularly special relationship I’m not remembering?

Someone earlier posted Jeremiah got Derick for the gift swap, so I think that's why it seems random--it is. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, there's no special relationship between Jill and Jer. Jill didn't appear to have any kind of interaction with the Howler group, James excepted. 

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

The more I read and think about it Derrick is making sense.  These Dugger kids have been working for years and have very little to show for it.

John and Abby are living in an old trailer.  Joy and her husband in a camper.  The other boy and his wife live in a lot cabin relocated to the Dugger compound.  All those kids get is free lot rent!

Jesse and Ben live in the tiny mold house and Jeremy and Jinger are dwelling in a gift house.

One would think after years of appearing on the show they would be able to pay their hospital bills and afford nice homes.

Look at what other reality kids have.  Teen Mom's live in mcmansions.  How come the Dugger kids have nothing?

Well no education no job skills no work ethic no structure ... very few of the kids have employment. I bet they are all too proud to buy Obamacare. Smuggar was the only one with a cushy job and he blew all that money on Ashley Madison ...

[GeeGolly]

Who did Jill get for the gift exchange?

[realityfan26]

39 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Who did Jill get for the gift exchange?

Jill had Abbie and Jessa had Jill. I have no idea how they exchanged gifts. Weird situation all around.

[lascuba]

On 12/26/2019 at 9:06 PM, Sew Sumi said:

The brink of sanity? I think that's a wee bit exaggerated.

 

19 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I agree something has happened to change Jill.  She is definitely not the one I would have picked  to leave the family. She was very outgoing  back in the day when they started on TV & was the spokesperson of the kids or at least the older girls. 

I've always thought that the huge change to Jill's personality was largely due the public hate she got after the FoxNews disaster. She was still reeling from not having her dream homebirth with Israel, then the first scandal hits, she goes on tv to defend Josh and her parents, was forced to take part in a sex abuse special she clearly didn't think was necessary, and all of a sudden, she and her family were bombarded with hate from more than the usual suspects. And the she goes to Danger America and can't handle the reality of fake missionary work...that's when she really stopped being miss perky on camera and let her unhappiness show. I can believe that filming became too much for her. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

If I were a gambling kind of girl, I would bet that whatever contract JB had with TLC during 19K&C was never changed or renegotiated when the show became Counting On.  TLC changed the name of the show and the “stars” for lip service or rebranding purposes but the money has always gone to JB.  Yes, they “cancelled” 19 kids and we saw more of Jessa and Jill for a bit but we are essentially watching the same show today.  They probably just waited for the dust to settle, took a hiatus, and carried on with a new name.  Literally everything else, including who would get the paycheck, stayed the same.

That's always been my take. Considering how soon after 19K was cancelled they announced CO, it was obvious that they show was never actually cancelled and that JB was assured that TLC would still be filming, just with a different focus for the time being. 

Derick was such a naive goober when he married Jill that I have no trouble believing he had no idea that JB was getting paid for the show. It probably wasn't until he tried to get TLC to pay for the hospital bills after Israel's birth that he started asking questions, likely because TLC told him that he--via JB--had already been compensated for filming. Now I'm wondering if that wasn't a factor in his decision to go to DA.

I know Derick twists the truth regularly but I'm getting a kick out of all this.

[Growsonwalls]

Whatever differences JB might have with Derick keeping Jill from her family members is emotional abuse. And about Jill's "midwifery" skills -- they might not be much, but I absolutely believe anyone with any knowledge of childbirth might have sensed Jessa's delivery going south and could have stepped in sooner. 

Really disgusting of JB to do that. And that's oddly the part of Derick's story I believe 100%. Unlike the stuff with the TLC contracts this one rings very true and it's confirmed by Jill's absence from TTH even when they're not filming as well as the distance between Jill and the other J'slaves. 

[Temperance]

I honestly think Jeremiah just happened to pull Derick's name out of a hat. I don't think JB was punishing Jill by not assigning James to Derick. I think it's just luck of the draw. I also don't James is necessarily courting Lauren C. I could be wrong, but right now the speculation seems far-fetched. 🙄

I can't believe we're rehashing why Derick and Jill left the show again. I do think Derick is telling the truth about the money and most of the kids still look to daddy headship to tell them what to do. They blindly follow orders and have been blanket-trained out of complaining. Austin also complained about the money, but now JB gifted him a house with his and Joy's names on the deed. 

JB is as crooked as a stick in water. I think part of why the kids sign their money over to him is that he puts into some sort of tax shelter. (There are tax shelters in the US as well as in the Caymans and Switzerland.) 

4 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

The more I read and think about it Derrick is making sense.  These Dugger kids have been working for years and have very little to show for it.

John and Abby are living in an old trailer.  Joy and her husband in a camper.  The other boy and his wife live in a lot cabin relocated to the Dugger compound.  All those kids get is free lot rent!

Jesse and Ben live in the tiny mold house and Jeremy and Jinger are dwelling in a gift house.

One would think after years of appearing on the show they would be able to pay their hospital bills and afford nice homes.

Look at what other reality kids have.  Teen Mom's live in mcmansions.  How come the Dugger kids have nothing?

As mentioned JB recently gifted Joy a house. But yes the lack of medical care does suggest that JB either is giving them the money for health insurance or paying for insurance/medical care himself.  JB is a millionaire and a good Christian  and for many of them, he's their employer. Yet somehow his daughters have trouble paying for c-sections, NICU time, etc. 

I think Derick will botch this, but this is only the first time the Duggars start fighting about money. It won't be the last. 

[Zella]

@Temperance do you remember what Austin said about money? I remember folks mentioning it, but I must have been on one of my Duggar sabbaticals at the time, so I don't think I ever directly saw what he said. Thanks in advance!

Edited December 28, 2019 by Zella

[galaxychaser]

6 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why didn't Jill go to deliver the gifts? I guess she was cooking? 

Yes she was cooking 50 shades of yay.

[GeeGolly]

We don't know that Jill & Derick had trouble paying the hospital bills, we just know that Derick felt TLC should pay them because TLC would profit from airing the births.

Jessa, Joy, Joe and Josiah all had hospital bills related to their children's births. One would think they've paid the bills or are still paying them.

For all we know, Derick got very arrogant and greedy with his new found fame and wanted more - felt he deserved more. 

Whatever the Dillard-Duggar relationship is, Derick owns some of the blame. And no matter if Jill is onboard or not, haphazardly dissing your FIL on SM is childish and just plain wrong.

 

[Jeeves]

IIRC Derick said that it took them a year to pay off the medical bills that TLC refused to pay. I can never remember if it was for Izzy's birth or Sammy's, though.

[PikaScrewChu]

Yeah. I don't see what good can come of JB being blasted on social media. I have a sneaking suspicion JB is enjoying the attention because Derick can never get his story straight so people are wondering if this is true or not.

One thing my mother taught me is that it does not end well if you start talking shit about your in-laws in front of your spouse. JB is many awful, evil things. He's still Jill's dad. Until there is concrete proof Jill has said "I'm done with my father and that is it" I'm going to pull the 😬 face. 

If Jill is done with him and her fame whore family then I will reconsider my 😬 face. Until then, 😬.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

 

For all we know, Derick got very arrogant and greedy with his new found fame and wanted more - felt he deserved more. 

Whatever the Dillard-Duggar relationship is, Derick owns some of the blame. And no matter if Jill is onboard or not, haphazardly dissing your FIL on SM is childish and just plain wrong.

 

Yes, Derick owns a lot of the blame for this situation.   He was an adult who willingly signed papers to appear on the show.   He willingly did promotional photoshoots and commercials for TLC.  If he was not compensated for his efforts and allowed JB to collect the money, that is on him.  If he thought his father-in-law was going to disperse his and Jill's fair share because they are family, that is also on him.  

 

I do think he and Jill have been fairly compensated for their efforts.  I don't know how they have enough money for his Cross Church program, law school, and a new house.  Derick wants us all to believe that he has done all of this debt-free.   No way he has "worked" enough in his 30ish years on this earth to save half a million dollars to pay for all of this.  Plus those pesky medical bills they have already paid off.  

[MichaelaRae]

Derick actually used the words abuse victim in reference to Jill. That to me Is HUGE.

[JustRosie]

42 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

Derick actually used the words abuse victim in reference to Jill. That to me Is HUGE.

Wow. Pandora’s box is opening up!  ☕️ 

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder what he thinks he’s accomplishing by posting this stuff? If he’s really planning to sue TLC/JB, it’s not a good idea to tip them off.

Is he trying to guilt them into buying him off? Because I’m certain neither entity has enough of a conscience to be bothered.

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, Oldernowiser said:

I wonder what he thinks he’s accomplishing by posting this stuff? If he’s really planning to sue TLC/JB, it’s not a good idea to tip them off.

Is he trying to guilt them into buying him off? Because I’m certain neither entity has enough of a conscience to be bothered.

Good questions. He's drip-dropping bits of information (or claims), leaving lots of unconnected dots. He's said something about TLC not telling them what to say or not say. And, then somehow TLC's responsible for pressuring an abuse victim to appear on camera when she didn't want to?

There are different entities in play here. There's family patriarch JB who obviously calls the shots. Then there's the production company who shoots and edits the footage, and finally TLC which buys and airs the show.

How those three interact in deciding what's filmed, and what makes the final cut, I have no idea. But somebody - and I believe it was JB either acting on his own or with advice - decided to put Jill and Jessa front and center on camera when Joshgate I (the molestations) broke. Maybe powerful Gothard allies helped to work the magic that got the hot Fox News chick to do the interview, but however it happened, there was Jill in tears and Jessa in stony determination to keep the family TV franchise in business. 

I wonder if that was when reality really bit for Derick, after he'd stupidly if idealistically bought the Duggar myth and married into the tribe. Yes he's reactive and immature and all that, but I can believe he cared for his wife, was gobsmacked when he learned what had happened to her, and didn't want her paraded out on TV to continue the coverup. 

But, back to the questions above. I'm not sure he has a strategy, which is too bad. I can understand his frustration as the Duggar myth continues to be broadcast by TLC and the leghumpers while he knows the ugly truth. But if he's just flailing around with this stuff on social media, I think JB and the Duggar myth will keep on rolling unscathed, and that's just sucky.

[Spencer Hastings]

Abuse victim is a really heavy term to use.  It’s 100% true so good for Derick calling a spade a spade.  Someone connected to that family using the words abuse and victim is huge.  Jill was a victim in so many ways. I wonder which incident he’s referring to? The molestation? The labor of raising other people’s kids? The brainwashing? The refusal to educate her?  Did they tell her she HAD to go on tv and defend Josh or she would be sued? 

I wonder what Jill thinks about all of this.  I’m entertained and curious, but I’m also concerned for her.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[lascuba]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC Derick said that it took them a year to pay off the medical bills that TLC refused to pay. I can never remember if it was for Izzy's birth or Sammy's, though.

It was Israel's. He had wanted TLC to pay those bills. That they refused is why he didn't allow Sam's birth to be filmed. 

10 hours ago, Zella said:

@Temperance do you remember what Austin said about money? I remember folks mentioning it, but I must have been on one of my Duggar sabbaticals at the time, so I don't think I ever directly saw what he said. Thanks in advance!

Austin said he and Joy weren't paid for the show because it was a ministry. 

23 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I wonder what he thinks he’s accomplishing by posting this stuff? If he’s really planning to sue TLC/JB, it’s not a good idea to tip them off.

Is he trying to guilt them into buying him off? Because I’m certain neither entity has enough of a conscience to be bothered.

At this point, I'm not sure he's trying to accomplish anything? I think he's just arrogant prick who can't stop himself from answering questions on twitter. Which I am grateful for, because I'm all about throwing a wrench in the united front facade the Duggars have going. 

6 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Good questions. He's drip-dropping bits of information (or claims), leaving lots of unconnected dots. He's said something about TLC not telling them what to say or not say. And, then somehow TLC's responsible for pressuring an abuse victim to appear on camera when she didn't want to?

There are different entities in play here. There's family patriarch JB who obviously calls the shots. Then there's the production company who shoots and edits the footage, and finally TLC which buys and airs the show.

How those three interact in deciding what's filmed, and what makes the final cut, I have no idea. But somebody - and I believe it was JB either acting on his own or with advice - decided to put Jill and Jessa front and center on camera when Joshgate I (the molestations) broke. Maybe powerful Gothard allies helped to work the magic that got the hot Fox News chick to do the interview, but however it happened, there was Jill in tears and Jessa in stony determination to keep the family TV franchise in business. 

I wonder if that was when reality really bit for Derick, after he'd stupidly if idealistically bought the Duggar myth and married into the tribe. Yes he's reactive and immature and all that, but I can believe he cared for his wife, was gobsmacked when he learned what had happened to her, and didn't want her paraded out on TV to continue the coverup. 

But, back to the questions above. I'm not sure he has a strategy, which is too bad. I can understand his frustration as the Duggar myth continues to be broadcast by TLC and the leghumpers while he knows the ugly truth. But if he's just flailing around with this stuff on social media, I think JB and the Duggar myth will keep on rolling unscathed, and that's just sucky.

I don't think that, at the time, he or Jill were thinking in terms of her being an abuse victim.  Now, Jill WAS a victim and it's possible her perspective has changed, but at the time that the scandal came out, she was insistent that the sex abuse story was overblown and that the true crime was in the In Touch story, and considering how openly angry she was at having to take a class on sex abuse prevention because she was so sure her parents did everything right, I don't believe she was lying about that.  I highly doubt he was upset about the continued coverup at the time, because back then they were all about keeping the family brand going. Now, in retrospect? They might feel differently. But at the time I think it was about a) the money, b) Jill being devastated that she and her family were getting bombarded with hate from the general public and not wanting her to continuing filming through that. 

[Dimi1]

4 minutes ago, lascuba said:

It was Israel's. He had wanted TLC to pay those bills. That they refused is why he didn't allow Sam's birth to be filmed. 

Austin said he and Joy weren't paid for the show because it was a ministry. 

At this point, I'm not sure he's trying to accomplish anything? I think he's just arrogant prick who can't stop himself from answering questions on twitter. Which I am grateful for, because I'm all about throwing a wrench in the united front facade the Duggars have going. 

I don't think that, at the time, he or Jill were thinking in terms of her being an abuse victim.  Now, Jill WAS a victim and it's possible her perspective has changed, but at the time that the scandal came out, she was insistent that the sex abuse story was overblown and that the true crime was in the In Touch story, and considering how openly angry she was at having to take a class on sex abuse prevention because she was so sure her parents did everything right, I don't believe she was lying about that.  I highly doubt he was upset about the continued coverup at the time, because back then they were all about keeping the family brand going. Now, in retrospect? They might feel differently. But at the time I think it was about a) the money, b) Jill being devastated that she and her family were getting bombarded with hate from the general public and not wanting her to continuing filming through that. 

I think we may be only hearing the tip of the iceberg...and it could spell the end of counting on....I do think Derick wanting to be a lawyer has something to do with all of this...as well as the changes we see in Jill.....I know from personal experience (we had friends in Bill Gothards cult with 10 kids)...just how messed up all these kids are...so much lost childhood/development....

[Oldernowiser]

4 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't think that, at the time, he or Jill were thinking in terms of her being an abuse victim.  Now, Jill WAS a victim and it's possible her perspective has changed, but at the time that the scandal came out, she was insistent that the sex abuse story was overblown and that the true crime was in the In Touch story, and considering how openly angry she was at having to take a class on sex abuse prevention because she was so sure her parents did everything right, I don't believe she was lying about that.

She believed what she was told to believe and said what she was told to say. 

But what if she is now remembering more? And realizing how sanitized the public version was to save the brand?

Total speculation, obviously. But it’s somewhat odd that Derick seems angrier now than ever?

[DangerousMinds]

I’m glad he’s validating that Jill WAS a victim. That’s huge.

[Albanyguy]

14 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't think that, at the time, he or Jill were thinking in terms of her being an abuse victim.  Now, Jill WAS a victim and it's possible her perspective has changed, but at the time that the scandal came out, she was insistent that the sex abuse story was overblown and that the true crime was in the In Touch story, and considering how openly angry she was at having to take a class on sex abuse prevention because she was so sure her parents did everything right, I don't believe she was lying about that.  I highly doubt he was upset about the continued coverup at the time, because back then they were all about keeping the family brand going. Now, in retrospect? They might feel differently. But at the time I think it was about a) the money, b) Jill being devastated that she and her family were getting bombarded with hate from the general public and not wanting her to continuing filming through that. 

Derick is a liar and a coward who enjoys taking potshots at people on Instagram, but then often as not will backtrack and change his story. I'm impressed that somebody in the Duggar family is willing to publicly use the words "abuse victim", but I wouldn't be surprised if by tomorrow he realizes the enormity of what he's done and starts trying to weasel out of it: "When I said that my wife was an abuse victim, I meant that she and her whole family were abused by In Touch and the rest of the media, as well as by TLC."

[Growsonwalls]

I feel like the word of "abuse victim" is already a huge step forward. Even if it's not the abuse that we recognize. Maybe Jill is not there yet in acknowledge Smuggar's behavior as abuse. Maybe she'll never be there. But I'm glad she is recognizing SOME of the behaviors of her upbringing as abusive. Keeping her from seeing her family is abusive. Keeping TLC earnings from family members is financial abuse and it's actually a huge red flag in domestic violence cases. Educational neglect is abuse. 

[Lunera]

I understand his anger towards TLC but they are not to blame. They just want what's good for tv which at the time was Jilly and Jessa suffering after they were humiliated by their brother. Boob was the one who made them do the Fox interview because he was desperate to get them back on tv.

There is a clip from the first episode of CO where Jill says that she talked to Derick after the cheating scandal and said that Josh should not have let them go on tv to defend him after the molestation scandal knowing damn well he was hiding other things. She was crying her eyes out, while Jessa had an "ok, can we move on now....." attitude. I hope Derick keeps exposing DimBob.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Lunera

[GeeGolly]

Huh. Derick referring to Jill as abused. There's no turning back now or else it will look like he is disgustingly 'playing the abuse card' at his wife's expense.

It really feels to me like Derick is piling it on. Seeing everything that happened in a negative light, while he and Jill were taken advantage of without their knowledge. His story is growing faster than a fisherman's catch.

*He quit. He was fired. He never worked for TLC. He was never paid. There was a contract, there wasn't a contract. TLC wouldn't pay medical bills. Being missionaries on the show was against the (nonexistent?) contract - yet they filmed them doing missionary work. TLC threatened to sue non-contracted, non-employees, Jill and Derick, for breach of (nonexistent?) contract. Now TLC forced Jill to do an interview about the molestations.

*Derick, please read above so you can get your story straight now that you really opened a can of worms.

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Lunera said:

I understand his anger towards TLC but they are not to blame. They just want what's good for tv which at the time was Jilly and Jessa suffering after they were humiliated by their brother. Boob was the one who made them do the Fox interview because he was desperate to her them back on tv.

There is a clip from the first episode of CO where Jill says that she talked to Derick after the cheating scandal and said that Josh should not have let them go on tv to defend him after the molestation scandal knowing damn well he was hiding other things. She was crying her eyes out, while Jessa had an "ok, can we move on now....." attitude. I hope Derick keeps exposing DimBob.

I think TLC bears some culpability for continuing to enable these people and give them a platform, though I agree with you that I suspect Jim Bob was the one pressuring the girls to give an interview. And that's sick. 

[Mojitogirl]

I figure that the quitting of Walmart and the running off to Central America was Derricks awkward attempt at quickly taking Jill out of a very dysfunctional situation. I don’t think it was the best idea but maybe they felt that they needed physical distance between her family and their own. Jill may have tried to keep the facade up with those seasons of Counting On J&J but she couldn’t do it and started working on boundaries 

[Kellyee]

Quote

Hopefully, TLC has contracts in each child’s name. This would mean each child has been paid and that there is an education fund for each child to access too. I hope these kids know this. 

Reality shows are different. The kids aren't considered "actors". They are considered "participants". So they have no real rights, and no contracts in their own names. They are not even covered under child labor laws. The only place where the kids might be protected is California. That is why you will almost never see a reality show with minor children in California. All this came out during the Kate Plus 8 disaster. When people began questioning Jon Gosselin's claims that his kids were being filmed constantly. 

Jill and Jinger both appear to be using some form of birth control, since neither has had any more kids in a while. They are also both wearing pants and messing with their hair. I'm thinking both of them have husbands who are sick of Jim Bob and his ridiculous rules. I do feel bad for their kids though, because they may not get as much time playing with their cousins. Israel and Spurgeon seemed really close in videos posted on Instagram by Jessa. But Jinger is still being tolerated, while Jill is just cut off. Maybe Jeremy plays along more because they need whatever money they can get? 

 

 

[BetyBee]

2 minutes ago, Mojitogirl said:

I figure that the quitting of Walmart and the running off to Central America was Derricks awkward attempt at quickly taking Jill out of a very dysfunctional situation. I don’t think it was the best idea but maybe they felt that they needed physical distance between her family and their own. Jill may have tried to keep the facade up with those seasons of Counting On J&J but she couldn’t do it and started working on boundaries 

I agree. I seem to remember as they talked on the show about going to DA, Derick seemed angry and uncomfortable in the big family group.  I think he was angry with Josh and trying to get a fresh start for his little family.  Unfortunately, Jill couldn't handle DA very well.  I'm glad she is now working on herself.  I also agree with those who have said that Derick tends to change his story a lot, so who knows what he'll be claiming he said or meant a week, month or year from now!

[Jeeves]

16 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Huh. Derick referring to Jill as abused. There's no turning back now or else it will look like he is disgustingly 'playing the abuse card' at his wife's expense.

It really feels to me like Derick is piling it on. Seeing everything that happened in a negative light, while he and Jill were taken advantage of without their knowledge. His story is growing faster than a fisherman's catch.

*He quit. He was fired. He never worked for TLC. He was never paid. There was a contract, there wasn't a contract. TLC wouldn't pay medical bills. Being missionaries on the show was against the (nonexistent?) contract - yet they filmed them doing missionary work. TLC threatened to sue non-contracted, non-employees, Jill and Derick, for breach of (nonexistent?) contract. Now TLC forced Jill to do an interview about the molestations.

*Derick, please read above so you can get your story straight now that you really opened a can of worms.

Yep, all that flailing around on social media is what concerns me. Maybe he can connect the dots so that all the bits he's divulged over time make some sense, but at the moment they don't. 

However, if the Dillard/Duggar situation has deteriorated to the point where Jill can't visit the TTH without JB's presence or consent? I don't see Derick suddenly retracting "abuse victim" and claiming that he meant that the Duggar family was really the victim of the media, etc. Nope.

BTW I agree that at the time of the infamous Hot Fox News Chick interview, Jill's reluctance to appear was likely on account of how hurt she was by all the negative publicity aimed at her perfect parents and their infallible wisdom. But I believe that even at that early stage, Derick had his own private perceptions and they weren't necessarily the same as Jill's. Even if he didn't buck authority (JB) at the time.

It does sound like he backed up Jill in resisting the interview (for whatever reasons of his own which may have included concern for her emotional state), but they both backed down under pressure. So yeah he probably wasn't thinking "abuse victim" in so many words but I think that as he processed the information about the molestations, he was unlikely to have swallowed the official Duggar party line about it. This is his wife, his emotionally fragile wife, after all. (Over time, Derick may have talked it over with his mom or his brother, neither of whom are Gothardites/IFB, and I'd like to think they would have been concerned for Jill a helluva lot more than for JB's cash cow TV show.)

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Mojitogirl said:

I figure that the quitting of Walmart and the running off to Central America was Derricks awkward attempt at quickly taking Jill out of a very dysfunctional situation. I don’t think it was the best idea but maybe they felt that they needed physical distance between her family and their own. Jill may have tried to keep the facade up with those seasons of Counting On J&J but she couldn’t do it and started working on boundaries 

I believe, according to the timeline, Derick and Jill had decided to go to CA long before everything broke. He continued to film and hang with the family, before and after the scandal was made public as well.

The actual falling out with TLC happened about two years later, after Sam was born. When the falling out happened with JB is anyone's guess.

[Growsonwalls]

Guys if you want to watch the full interview here it is. I don't know how anyone can watch this and not come to the conclusion that Jill is having a mental breakdown of some sort. She's crying nonstop and barely articulate. Jessa is cold and steely and toes the company line, as she is wont to do.

In fact I wonder if JB and Michelle decided right then and there that Jessa was the more worthy Duggar for her ability to spit back talking points under duress like that.

 

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Guys if you want to watch the full interview here it is. I don't know how anyone can watch this and not come to the conclusion that Jill is having a mental breakdown of some sort. She's crying nonstop and barely articulate. Jessa is cold and steely and toes the company line, as she is wont to do.

In fact I wonder if JB and Michelle decided right then and there that Jessa was the more worthy Duggar for her ability to spit back talking points under duress like that.

 

Ugh I watched that when it came out, and it still bothers me anytime I think about how visibly distraught Jill was. And I don't think it was an act on her part at all.  😞 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Zella

[JoanArc]

OK when you acknowledge someone is an abuse victim, you get them help. I would love to see Jill have two sessions a week with a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist. A legitimate non-quack.  She could also use a session of marriage counseling a week with Derreck, and he could probably use his own session alone. Things don’t just magically get better by reading self-help books. Sorry, they just don’t. This is the one legitimate thing I would actually give the Dillards money to do. 

[P2C2E]

Jill may be in therapy. We don't know. Despite the fact that we feel they put their whole lives on camera or social media, they don't. If they were in therapy they likely wouldn't share that.

Jill has shared books she's reading. They may have been recommended by Derick, or a friend, or even by a therapist. 

We really don't know their lives, however much we think we do. 

[JoanArc]

9 minutes ago, P2C2E said:

Jill may be in therapy. We don't know.

 I agree that we don’t know, but given these people’s general beliefs, I think it’s unlikely they would see anyone more than a pastor who may or may not be qualified to help. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by JoanArc

[dariafan]

20 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Regardless of contracts or knowledge of payments, not one Duggar adult or child is living in poverty. And none of the adults appear to have a full time job.

If JB is doling out the money, it seems to still be happening.

He can’t have more out in the evil world learning stuff !!

[Lunera]

I have watched this interview a few times and everytime I'm shocked at how unbothered Jessa is. The way she just rolls her eyes and laughs things off. I think she is worse off than Jill because she keeps things bottled up. The way she says Josh was really sly and good at molesting them is messed up. They are so damn brainwashed. 

[Growsonwalls]

Just now, JoanArc said:

 I agree that we don’t know, but given these people’s general beliefs, I think it’s unlikely they would see anyone more than a pastor who may or may not be qualified to help. 

Jill did talk about how women in abusive situations must find a licensed (her emphasis, not mine) Christian therapist. There are therapists who are sensitive to some of the complications of a fundie lifestyle. These things would be more readily discussed in Arkansas Baptist. 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Lunera said:

I have watched this interview a few times and everytime I'm shocked at how unbothered Jessa is. The way she just rolls her eyes and laughs things off. I think she is worse off than Jill because she keeps things bottled up. The way she says Josh was really sly and good at molesting them is messed up. They are so damn brainwashed. 

My head nearly exploded when Jessa was talking about Josh's slyness. Like, I really don't think she understood the implications what she was saying, but it spoke volumes to how this was treated in the family. 😞

[Growsonwalls]

4 minutes ago, Lunera said:

I have watched this interview a few times and everytime I'm shocked at how unbothered Jessa is. The way she just rolls her eyes and laughs things off. I think she is worse off than Jill because she keeps things bottled up. The way she says Josh was really sly and good at molesting them is messed up. They are so damn brainwashed. 

This makes me really worry for Ivy. I have a feeling Jessa is a very “build a bridge and get over it” type of person. Not to say she doesn’t love her kids. But I don’t see her being very responsive if her daughter tells her about abuse. 
 

Eta: the other thing that is striking about Jessa is her body language compared to Jill. Jill looks so defeated, Jessa has a real military posture like she isn’t going to let some little thing like this occupy her mind.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Growsonwalls