Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[SnapHappy]

Nice timing for the announcement.

Wasn't it at this stage Joy's baby died?   Classy move, Dillwads. 

Also a great way to keep people from asking about the Bar Exam.

[Minivanessa]

31 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Izzy goes to school. When can Sam go, if they will let him? I don't know the requirements in the US

Kindergarten, which is at 5 years of age.

[GeeGolly]

@Jeeves makes a really good point. None of the Duggar grandchildren are technically in a cult - at least that we know of. But what constitutes a cult, especially one like Gothardism/Quiverfull? And then my second question is what is an acceptable balance of mainstream and Fundy? 

If we compare Derick and Jill, Derick had what looks like a typical childhood and Jill didn't. I would guess Jill is a much nicer person than Derick, yet Jill was raised in a cult. Derick was raised mainstream, yet thinks its okay to discipline infants. Jill now attends a mainstream church, yet still practices "instant obedience" with her boys. Despite their different childhoods, they both have issues with women's reproductive rights and the LGBTQ+ community.

Neither Jill or Derick have denounced Jill's upbringing. Actually quite the opposite, as they said they will repeat many of the things that stemmed from Gothardism.

I'm all about seeing any of the Duggar 18 improve their lives. I was cheerleading both Jill and Jinger from the start of their marriages. I applauded and was filled with hope when they wore pants. I was slower than most to see who Derick really was. But that was the peeling back of the curtain for me. Its when I realized that while the way the Duggar 19 were raised was disturbing, other than a few harmless and superficial beliefs/behaviors, they are not that different than the Dillards of the world.

Now as I continue with my absurd habit of all things Duggar, I feel I'm in a wait and see mode. I think its great the boys are in school. I think its great that Jinger has regular exposure to the real world. I think its great that Jinger and Claire went a year without having their first kid. But so far none of these things have lead me to believe any of the Duggar 19 are any closer than another, to leaving behind any of their deep seated harmful beliefs. Unfortunately, this leads me to believe that while Izzy and Sammy will have the endless benefits of attending public school, in the end they will likely have a lot in common with their Seewald cousins as they move into adulthood. Just as Derick, his mom and brother, have a lot in common with the Duggar family.

[Rootbeer]

16 hours ago, Lady Jane said:

In general, knowing nothing about her particular situation, there is every possibility that she will want to try for a VBA2C--which should only, ever, be attempted in a hospital with immediate access to an OR (I know some places will do it in a "birthing center" -- but that way lies madness). Depending on the exact reasons for her C-sections a VBA2C might be an option. There's no guarantee that her prenatal provider (and I do believe she has one) will allow her an attempt at VBA2C. 

How can her provider prevent it?  Just because her provider informs her of all the risks and strongly recommends a repeat cesarean, which is what most traditional providers would do, doesn't mean Jill will take their advice.  If her water breaks or she goes into labor and chooses to stay home, no one can stop her.  For that matter, even if she goes to the hospital,  if she refuses to have a cesarean and instead wants to labor; it is her choice, for anyone to force her to have a cesarean against her will would not only be unethical, but illegal and she could charge them with assault.

I've practiced OB/GYN for 40 years; patients refuse recommended interventions all the time.  Yet, as long as they keep coming back to me, I have to respect their wishes and do my best.  I would personally recommend an elective scheduled repeat cesarean prior to labor to Jill, but I wouldn't bet that she'd agree to it.  She's spent a lot of time around non-traditional caregivers, she is one herself.  I would expect that she has been taught to question the motives of everyone in the traditional medical system and wouldn't be surprised at all if she refused to have a scheduled section.

[emmawoodhouse]

She wanted a VBAC with Sam, and that obviously didn't go as planned. I'm sure she'll try for a VBAC again.

[Nysha]

5 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I've practiced OB/GYN for 40 years; patients refuse recommended interventions all the time.  Yet, as long as they keep coming back to me, I have to respect their wishes and do my best.

What kind of treatment is legal if it's obvious that either the baby or the mother (or both) will die if the baby isn't removed immediately?

[auntieminem]

Jill posted another we are having a baby pic on insta. Guess we can expect a few more from the photo shoot and when/if they reveal the gender.  Also her story also had a picture she was tagged in from a friend; she was a brides maid in her friend's wedding. Glad she does have some friends other than family. This person seems to have known them before Izzy.  

[emmawoodhouse]

Yeah, she's been dribbling out pics from their shoot. However, I was under the impression that the gender reveal wouldn't be for a few weeks, or they would at minimum find out then. They may not reveal gender to their followers at all. 

[Temperance]

Both Jill and Derick have defended physical punishment for kids. Jill often seemed overwhelmed and the boys were constantly doing dangerous balancing exercises. 

I would be surprised if Jill tried to have a homebirth and I hope she decides to have c-section ahead of time this time.  We only know that Jill attempted one homebirth (with Israel). With Sam, I think she tried to have VBAC and it didn't work.

[cmr2014]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:07 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

She wanted a VBAC with Sam, and that obviously didn't go as planned. I'm sure she'll try for a VBAC again.

I agree.

I had some hope for Jill -- she and Derick really seemed to have righted their ship after the rocky early years of their marriage. They both seemed happy and the kids seem much happier than they did a few years ago.

The pregnancy suggests (to me) that nothing has changed. Jill agreed (possibly in marriage counseling) to wait until after Derick graduated from law school to have another baby. The instant he graduated, she got pregnant.

She didn't wait until he's passed the bar and gotten a job. There is absolutely no concern about whether they can afford a baby or if they have any health insurance in place for prenatal care and a hospital delivery.

Despite her history and the reality of her previous pregnancies, she's still 100% sure that she'll have an easy pregnancy and delivery, and no professional medical intervention will be required because of Jesus or whatever.

[ginger90]

10 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

There is absolutely no concern about whether they can afford a baby or if they have any health insurance in place for prenatal care and a hospital delivery.

Did they say this?

[Lukeysboat]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:56 AM, MaryAnneSpier said:

 

It's quite common for Christians to post that they're praying for whatever big-deal, constantly-covered-by-media tragedy/injustice is happening at the moment in order to get spirituality brownie points. It makes them look like they consistenly care about issues (when they really don't), it makes them look pious (in a good way to others in their circle), it makes them look like they're educated and aware of complicated issues like history and politics (when oftentimes it's below the level of the average American).  It's all a show, quite similar to how politicians and celebrities behave during times of crisis.

 

I find this offensive and off the mark. I am a Christian (yes, the “right”kind) and I absolutely have been praying for Ukraine. I don’t post about it; I do it in my everyday life. Why?

I am praying that God will open the hearts and minds of others and give us outrage over the war. To give us compassion for all of those who are suffering. And yes of course I pray for peace, comfort, and an end to the struggle. And by the way, I also donated to a vetted, non-Christian charity that is assisting Ukraine. So yes, I put my money where my mouth is.  
 

I don’t think it’s weird for Jill to say she is praying for Ukraine as that is what Christians are called to do. And I don’t think she is just doing it for show either. I absolutely agree that there are people that don’t know what’s going on that will just say it to look good or whatever and not actually follow through with the praying, but it’s really not cool to lump all Christians into that category of showboating.

On another note regarding the name Israel: I don’t know that one can conclude that the Dillards used this name in a political meaning (unless they have stated that which I have not seen but I will stand corrected if it’s true). Israel was the name given to Jacob by God in the Bible, and that has a lot of meaning for some people as well. 
 

I’m happy for Jill that she seems to be doing well with her pregnancy and I really think that if they have a girl she will be treated differently than the girls were treated in the Duggar home. I cannot imagine going through pregnancy and that trial at the same time. Jill must be so relieved that it has passed and that she has reached this stage of pregnancy. I really do wonder what they are doing for money though. I guess we will find out soon enough if Derick passes the bar at least  

 

[GeeGolly]

Judging by Derick's shirt, they may have chosen the name Israel for more than one reason.

[Lukeysboat]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Judging by Derick's shirt, they may have chosen the name Israel for more than one reason

 

It certainly seems plausible. 

[Cinnabon]

28 minutes ago, Lukeysboat said:

It certainly seems plausible. 

I thought it had something to do with the “rapture” BS.

[ginger90]

Looks like this is the shirt:

[Rootbeer]

On 3/1/2022 at 8:59 PM, Nysha said:

What kind of treatment is legal if it's obvious that either the baby or the mother (or both) will die if the baby isn't removed immediately?

When it comes to a situation of life or death, people may choose for themselves. That's the whole theory behind a Living Will, after all  It doesn't happen often, but adults can and do refuse life saving treatment.  Probably the most common example is that of Jehovah's Witnesses who will not take blood or blood products under any circumstances.  I have seen women close to death from hemorrhaging both after surgery and after deliveries who have refused transfusions even after being warned that they might die or might have a stroke, a heart attack, kidney failure and be left permanently disabled.  As long as they're rational, they get to pick.

Where it gets thornier is in the case of a child whose parents refuse life saving care.  It generally requires a trip to court where the parents are removed as medical decision makers for a sick child.  There have been cases of little kids with cancer whose parents wanted to use faith healing and skip chemo and the courts usually side in favor of the child being treated  When I was a resident, we had a JW patient who delivered prematurely at 26-28 weeks. Virtually all babies that premature end up needing blood transfusions to survive.  The neonatologist walked into the recovery room and asked the mother if she would allow him to transfuse her child when necessary, she said nope.  He then told her he had already called the judge and he would be given temporary custody of the baby until he was released from the hospital.  She thanked him.  He told me he had done it many times before and the mothers were always grateful that he understood why they couldn't agree to transfuse the kid, but that he would simply step up and carry the burden for them. He said that not a single one ever tried to go to court against him.

When a patient is in labor and there are fetal indications for a cesarean, the same rules apply.  If the baby is having signs of distress on monitoring and a cesarean is recommended, the mother can refuse.  We do our best to explain the situation and make sure everything is well documented, we try to get her partner, friends and family involved so maybe they can help persuade her.  We notify the hospital's medical ethics committee chair as well as the hospital's attorney and they generally remind us to do all the stuff we've already done and counsel us that we cannot proceed without maternal consent.  The attorney can file an emergency motion with the courts on behalf of the baby, but, even in an emergency, there really isn't time for that and I've personally never seen it happen.  In all the cases where I've been involved, the mother either changed her mind and had the cesarean or delivered vaginally a living child.  Don't know how those kids did in the long run though.  I know a nurse who took care of a labor patient at another hospital who refused all intervention and she still cries talking about watching the baby die on the fetal monitor and the mother delivering a stillborn.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[farmgal4]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:47 AM, cmr2014 said:

I agree.

I had some hope for Jill -- she and Derick really seemed to have righted their ship after the rocky early years of their marriage. They both seemed happy and the kids seem much happier than they did a few years ago.

The pregnancy suggests (to me) that nothing has changed. Jill agreed (possibly in marriage counseling) to wait until after Derick graduated from law school to have another baby. The instant he graduated, she got pregnant.

She didn't wait until he's passed the bar and gotten a job. There is absolutely no concern about whether they can afford a baby or if they have any health insurance in place for prenatal care and a hospital delivery.

Despite her history and the reality of her previous pregnancies, she's still 100% sure that she'll have an easy pregnancy and delivery, and no professional medical intervention will be required because of Jesus or whatever.

With all due respect, how do we know if any of that is fact?

Edited March 6, 2022 by farmgal4
Changed a word

[cmr2014]

20 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

With all due respect, how do we know if any of that is fact?

We don't. In all honestly, we don't know anything for sure about any of them.

There are the things that they tell us, but they lie a lot, so that's not really anything meaningful. We only know the very limited information that we can see in their photos and in the life choices that they choose to share. There's no question that I'm reading things into the limited amount of information that we do have.

We know that Derick hasn't passed the bar. He doesn't seem to be working -- not even door dash. Since he's not working, I doubt that they have health insurance. They would probably qualify for greatly reduced premiums through the exchanges, but I doubt that they would take advantage of that given their extreme political beliefs.

We know that they were using birth control and we know that Jill hasn't been pregnant the entire time Derick was in law school. We know that she had a miscarriage a few months after he graduated. From that I'm extrapolating that Jill wanted to be pregnant and that there was some kind of agreement that they would wait until he finished school. She then immediately got pregnant without concerning herself about any of the costs.

I thought she had matured. I thought that she was taking some time and enjoying her children and her life, but the instant she got the green light, she got pregnant. If she had matured, she would have waited for Derick to pass the bar and start a job. They're going to have logistics to figure out in terms of Derick getting to work and Izzy getting to school. If she'd waited for Derick to get a job they'd have health insurance and she could get pre-natal care. If she had been paying any attention AT ALL, she'd have noticed that the sisters and sisters-in-law who receive pre-natal care are having better outcomes than she has had.

While I don't know any of this for sure, I do think that my conclusions aren't wildly off base considering the information that we do have.

[CalicoKitty]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

When it comes to a situation of life or death, people may choose for themselves. That's the whole theory behind a Living Will, after all  It doesn't happen often, but adults can and do refuse life saving treatment.  Probably the most common example is that of Jehovah's Witnesses who will not take blood or blood products under any circumstances.  I have seen women close to death from hemorrhaging both after surgery and after deliveries who have refused transfusions even after being warned that they might die or might have a stroke, a heart attack, kidney failure and be left permanently disabled.  As long as they're rational, they get to pick.

Where it gets thornier is in the case of a child whose parents refuse life saving care.  It generally requires a trip to court where the parents are removed as medical decision makers for a sick child.  There have been cases of little kids with cancer whose parents wanted to use faith healing and skip chemo and the courts usually side in favor of the child being treated  When I was a resident, we had a JW patient who delivered prematurely at 26-28 weeks. Virtually all babies that premature end up needing blood transfusions to survive.  The neonatologist walked into the recovery room and asked the mother if she would allow him to transfuse her child when necessary, she said nope.  He then told her he had already called the judge and he would be given temporary custody of the baby until he was released from the hospital.  She thanked him.  He told me he had done it many times before and the mothers were always grateful that he understood why they couldn't agree to transfuse the kid, but that he would simply step up and carry the burden for them. He said that not a single one ever tried to go to court against him.

When a patient is in labor and there are fetal indications for a cesarean, the same rules apply.  If the baby is having signs of distress on monitoring and a cesarean is recommended, the mother can refuse.  We do our best to explain the situation and make sure everything is well documented, we try to get her partner, friends and family involved so maybe they can help persuade her.  We notify the hospital's medical ethics committee chair as well as the hospital's attorney and they generally remind us to do all the stuff we've already done and counsel us that we cannot proceed without maternal consent.  The attorney can file an emergency motion with the courts on behalf of the baby, but, even in an emergency, there really isn't time for that and I've personally never seen it happen.  In all the cases where I've been involved, the mother either changed her mind and had the cesarean or delivered vaginally a living child.  Don't know how those kids did in the long run though.  I know a nurse who took care of a labor patient at another hospital who refused all intervention and she still cries talking about watching the baby die on the fetal monitor and the mother delivering a stillborn.

In our NICU, the doctor would go to court and get a court order for a transfusion for the infant.  It was a usual routine when a baby was in need of blood and the parents, usually JWs. , would refuse.  I don't ever remember a parent getting upset.  As long as the decision was made by others and it was out of their hands, they were OK with it.  It is very hard to watch adult patients or parents of children refuse needed treatment, but we just do everything we can to advocate for the patient, and document carefully.  It is ultimately their decision, and they must live with the consequences.  It is really hard to watch someone suffer, however.

[Absolom]

27 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

We know that Derick hasn't passed the bar. He doesn't seem to be working -- not even door dash. Since he's not working, I doubt that they have health insurance. They would probably qualify for greatly reduced premiums through the exchanges, but I doubt that they would take advantage of that given their extreme political beliefs.

I can't speak about all Southern Baptists, but every one that I know will take government health insurance if they qualify.  They will also take WIC and other similar aid.  They don't usually have the same anti-government fringe beliefs.  Now they do want to legislate their beliefs for the rest of us though.  

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I can't speak about all Southern Baptists, but every one that I know will take government health insurance if they qualify.  They will also take WIC and other similar aid.  They don't usually have the same anti-government fringe beliefs.  Now they do want to legislate their beliefs for the rest of us though.  

I think, like many people, that while Derick and Jill may feel that OTHER people are taking advantage of the system and taking the taxpayer's hard earned dough instead of paying their own way; THEY are not. I've seen more than a few people with very strong beliefs about government assistance and the kinds of people who use it manage to rationalize their own use of those benefits.

[MunichNark]

I'm aghast she's pregnant again. No job that we can see, no stable income. I also wish she'd have stayed off social media for good - for HER own good.

She has a long long way to go to really break free

[Future Cat Lady]

Just my 2 cents :

1) We don't know if Derrick actually has a job or not.

2) Jill didn't make that baby by herself. It's both their decision.

[BitterApple]

I'll give Derick the benefit of the doubt and hope he has some form of employment or a plan in the works. This is only their third kid in the span of six/seven years. If it were me, I'd have waited until I passed the bar, but it's not quite as bad as Fundies who pop out babies rapid-fire when they can't even afford the kids they have (see: Caldwells, Rods). 

[mythoughtis]

There are a couple of ‘Insurance policies’ geared toward religious people.  They are actually some sort of self insurance plan where people pay in and the premiums are used to pay other’s bills.  Bills for medical expenses that aren’t things they would find offensive.   They advertise constantly on the radio, as being much more affordable than  insurance companys.  I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dillards  have one of those plans. 
I have no problem with them announcing their pregnancy when they  did.  It was after the 12 weeks considered most risky.  With a family of 19 offspring, most of whom are adults- there’s always going to be some conflict of one’s news vs another’s.  Joy is not going to take offense because they announced their pregnancy at 4 months. She’s not really even going to compare it to her own gestation.  If she does, it will only be to think they could  still be at risk.  

 

[GeeGolly]

To me 3 kids isn't really a big deal and is certainly far from 19, but from the outside looking in, the timing doesn't look the best.

It seems to me the Dillards have lived off TLC/JB money since Izzy was born. I have no idea what the Grub Hub gig was all about, because it didn't seem Derick put in enough hours to make much more than to pay for the gas he was using to make deliveries. We also don't know the exact figure of the cash settlement they received. If they got around $250,000, by my calculations, that money would be gone or almost gone. If they got the payout sometime in 2018/19, their expenses would be at least 3 years of typical monthly costs, the purchase of a home and Derick's education. Using low estimates on everything - $35,000 per year, $150,000 home and $50,000 for school, the total is over $200,000. But that is based on Derick's statement saying the payout was relatively low, and guessing they received it a year or so after Derick's SM rants. Who knows, they could have gotten something closer to $500,000, though I doubt it.

While I don't think the average American is ever truly financially ready for the cost of children most make it work, but it does seem the Dillards could be jumping the gun a bit. They had a financially cushioned head start on the Duggar siblings at making a go at life before Counting On was cancelled. Lets hope they used it wisely.

[Nysha]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:45 PM, Rootbeer said:

In all the cases where I've been involved, the mother either changed her mind and had the cesarean or delivered vaginally a living child.  Don't know how those kids did in the long run though.  I know a nurse who took care of a labor patient at another hospital who refused all intervention and she still cries talking about watching the baby die on the fetal monitor and the mother delivering a stillborn.

Oh, that's so sad. Thank you, @Rootbeer, for taking time to give a very detailed answer to my question. I just can't fathom someone allowing their baby to die when there is a chance that he or she would survive with intervention.

[Ljohnson1987]

Wasn't Jill's engagement ring made in Israel? 

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Wasn't Jill's engagement ring made in Israel? 

I believe Derrick purchased just the diamond in Israel.

Edited March 8, 2022 by ginger90

[ginger90]

[jcbrown]

52 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

They look happy.

[Mindthinkr]

Jill looks so comfortable. I think she is just beginning to bloom. Now that her brother has been put away and she’s not living under her father’s rules, I think she is happier. 

[sagittarius sue]

It's ironic how Arkansas homebody Jill has a much better hairstylist/colorist than LA Jinger.  Jill's hair looks fabulous!

[Mindthinkr]

10 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

It's ironic how Arkansas homebody Jill has a much better hairstylist/colorist than LA Jinger.  Jill's hair looks fabulous!

She’s giving Jessa a run for her money, and winning. It’s clean, shiny and styled. 

[NotthebadVictoria]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

She’s giving Jessa a run for her money, and winning. It’s clean, shiny and styled. 

And her husband likes her 🤣

[emmawoodhouse]

6 minutes ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

And her husband likes her 🤣

And she doesn't leave the ends of her hair in the car door! 

[Tdoc72]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

She’s giving Jessa a run for her money, and winning. It’s clean, shiny and styled. 

Jessa’s is just long and flat. No style whatsoever. Jill looks great here—maybe living well and make her own choices is the best revenge. 

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

She’s giving Jessa a run for her money, and winning. It’s clean, shiny and styled. 

Jessa has the worst hair of all of the Duggar women. Well, except Meshelle!

Edited March 10, 2022 by Cinnabon

[iwantcookies]

Derecks haircut is so dorky 

I bet Jill still cuts his hair

[cereality]

So they tested positive for Covid. Jill specified it's for the first time - which I'm sure isn't true in lots of fundie land [I think in the Bates fam, Erin has had it more than once with many many complications]. At least they're vaccinated - bc I remember they posted a pic with their vax cards in line for free Chipotle when that promotion was going on - so they should have an easier go of it.

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

It's ironic how Arkansas homebody Jill has a much better hairstylist/colorist than LA Jinger.  Jill's hair looks fabulous!

Her hair does look really good. 
 

I agree they look very happy and relaxed together. 

[cmr2014]

14 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

It's ironic how Arkansas homebody Jill has a much better hairstylist/colorist than LA Jinger.  Jill's hair looks fabulous!

Her makeup looks good, too.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

The extra weight is flattering for Jill’s face. And you can tell she’s getting her her hair professionally done. 

[ginger90]

Derick’s blog post:

Thoughts On Turning 33…

Mar 9, 2022 | Life Matters | 

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2022/03/thoughts-on-turning-33/

[GeeGolly]

Well this doesn't look like they're taking it too seriously. I guess Jill hasn't read about the many complications that can occur for an expectant mom with covid.

[GeeGolly]

Yikes, I found this below Derick's birthday statement.

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2017/01/recent-decision-boy-scouts/

[emmawoodhouse]

Fuck you, Derelict.

This stood out as especially vile.

I also feel it is important for people (especially some of my followers on Twitter) to recognize that some discrimination is good and it’s a vital part of a healthy society.

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Fuck you, Derelict.

This stood out as especially vile.

As is this - 

"If you are truly a Christian, then you cannot accept homosexuality, adultery, covetousness, lust, hate, stealing, or anything else the Bible calls sin in your life.  The Bible is the absolute standard of life and it alone gets to determine what is sin and what is not." 

[jcbrown]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

As is this - 

"If you are truly a Christian, then you cannot accept homosexuality, adultery, covetousness, lust, hate, stealing, or anything else the Bible calls sin in your life.  The Bible is the absolute standard of life and it alone gets to determine what is sin and what is not." 

Yeah, that's the part I was going to quote, too. Small-minded jerk.