Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[GeeGolly]

So Derick says he won't misgender someone in their house, and Jill follows it up with saying they'll "still use their voice" in the appropriate setting. Is the appropriate setting on IG?

And isn't that like saying, I have gay friends, but I think bakeries and clerk's offices should be able to deny them services?

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

So Derick says he won't misgender someone in their house, and Jill follows it up with saying they'll "still use their voice" in the appropriate setting. Is the appropriate setting on IG?

And isn't that like saying, I have gay friends, but I think bakeries and clerk's offices should be able to deny them services?

I agree, the statement made by Derick and Jill was very limited, to the point that it was meaningless.  How often do we expect them to visit the home of a transgendered person?  When would that happen in the context of their lives at this point?  That's the only instance in which they will use that person's preferred pronouns.  We already know, based on his social media comments on Jazz, that Derick doesn't extend that courtesy to online discussion of a transgendered teen.

[Tuxcat]

5 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

For me, Jinger is just Jeremy's figure. We don't see her doing something remotely interesting, and it's all about Jeremy.

Jill has her own voice and her own things

Not trying to be contrary but what are the own things that Jill has? Both girls are selling things, promoting things - doing the influencer thing. Both went blonde and way outside the fundie circle in terms of dress/style, activities. Jinger co-wrote a book, serves as ambassador for her mother in law's organizations, raising two daughters and made the conscious decision to not sell her children on social media. How is Jill different (other than using Sam to sell cereal)? Shopping at Amy's? or because she said she wants "safe and healthy boundaries." She herself is not the one on twitter blasting Jim Bob. There really is no difference that I can see other than people just really enjoy Derrick's feuding because his target at the moment is her father. What's interesting to me is that the fire/fury/outrage he spews at Jim Bob currently is the same tone he used against transgender and homosexual families - people he had never even met.

[Boston]

How, in the name of God, can only 1 (ok maybe 2) people in this family of 19 kids have a brain.  I'm talking, Jill (I know some people don't like her but she has at LEAST made her own family and seem to be doing good).  Also the dining room table didn't help. 

[Vikitty]

I'm not a Jill lover or a Derick lover by any means... I'm also part of the LGBTQA+ community. I don't think Derick saying he would use the right pronouns excuses anyone -- it was just something significant enough that I noticed, because more often than not when it comes to TERFs and transphobes they can't even do that.

Even if Jill and Derick don't agree or approve, using someone's pronouns validates their identity. 

I agree the chances of them having a trans friend to put this into practice is probably slim to none. Sorry that my observation derailed the conversation so wildly.

[Future Cat Lady]

I think Jill & Jinger have changed a lot since they got married because they left most of the Gothard stuff behind. They've move away from their parents's type of religion.

The only reason that happened is because they married guys who were not into Gothard.

IMHO, I don't think Derrick has changed at all, he's just the very religious conservative guy he's always been. He may have flirted with the Gothard stuff, but it didn't last long. He's also still yapping about his feud with JB.

 

[Guest]

Please remember that polite disagreement with other posters is fine. However, criticism of fellow posters is not.  Nor is making generalized statements about people who like/dislike/are neutral about the Dillards.

[Cinnabon]

Cathy has weighed in.

Fans and critics believe that Jim Bob has raised his 19 children in a way that they must depend on him to live their lives. Cathy, on the other hand, has shared that she raised her kids differently so they can be “independent, responsible men.”

 

https://www.tvshowsace.com/2021/12/15/derick-dillard-mom-pops-off-jim-bob-duggar-ben-seewald/

 

[lascuba]

So responsible that one of them saw JB on tv and thought, "That looks like someone I'd like to emulate!"

Ok, Cathy.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

So responsible that one of them saw JB on tv and thought, "That looks like someone I'd like to emulate!"

Ok, Cathy.

They definitely didn’t do enough research!

[GeeGolly]

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

[Zella]

Man, this week, we have messy bitches coming out of the woodworks, left and right. 😂

 

[Nysha]

I like that Derick emotionally supports his wife, lets her speak in their Q & As and probably everywhere else, and that he got a real degree in something besides religious studies. I don't agree with his religion, his stance on the LGBTQA+ community, or probably his politics. I also think he's thin-skinned, a liar, and a bully.  I find it possible for me to appreciate the probability that he is a better husband than Ben & Jeremy and he has helped Jill heal and grow. It's easy to feel he's a better person because the Duggar standard is so low yet Ben & Jeremy don't pass that bar.

As for Jill, I think she has changed tremendously in her personal attitude and outlook. Her beliefs have relax a teensy-tiny bit, going from full in Gothardism to conservative Southern Baptist. Hopefully that will continue to evolve in a positive direction.

[Turquoise]

23 minutes ago, Zella said:

Man, this week, we have messy bitches coming out of the woodworks, left and right. 😂

 

It feels like there should be some sort of Messy Award. I vote for a pie made by Sharon.

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

It feels like there should be some sort of Messy Award. I vote for a pie made by Sharon.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

May the odds ever be in your favor, messy bitches of the Duggarverse! 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

58 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

At least she tried to defend him, unlike mother of the year MEShelle. I bet Cathy would be in court to support either of her sons if they were ever defendants.

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

At least she tried to defend him, unlike mother of the year MEShelle. I bet Cathy would be in court to support either of her sons if they were ever defendants.

Honestly, I don't think showing up to support your kid in court is necessarily a sign of a good or involved parent. I think it can just as easily be the actions of an enabler. 

I think it was hypocritical of Michelle and Jim Bob to apparently still think Josh was innocent and not show up, but I think on the grand scale of shitty things they've done as parents, it's pretty small. I also wouldn't blame a parent for not showing up to support a kid they knew was guilty of something incredibly heinous.

This isn't actually a comment on Cathy as a parent--I think, for whatever her other issues are, that she does have a good relationship with her sons and is probably generally supportive of them. I just don't think showing up in court for your kid is an action that inherently means anything good or bad. It's very situational. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

Honestly, I don't think showing up to support your kid in court is necessarily a sign of a good or involved parent. I think it can just as easily be the actions of an enabler. 

I think it was hypocritical of Michelle and Jim Bob to apparently still think Josh was innocent and not show up, but I think on the grand scale of shitty things they've done as parents, it's pretty small. I also wouldn't blame a parent for not showing up to support a kid they knew was guilty of something incredibly heinous.

This isn't actually a comment on Cathy as a parent--I think, for whatever her other issues are, that she does have a good relationship with her sons and is probably generally supportive of them. I just don't think showing up in court for your kid is an action that inherently means anything good or bad. It's very situational. 

IDK, the fact that Michelle wasn’t there even one day to support Josh (even if she thinks he’s guilty), and none of Anna’s big family showed up to support her is just cruel and uncaring to me.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

IDK, the fact that Michelle wasn’t there even one day to support Josh (even if she thinks he’s guilty), and none of Anna’s big family showed up to support her is just cruel and uncaring to me.

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of and I believed he was guilty and his idiot wife kept supporting him through it, I probably wouldn't show up for him or her either. 🤷‍♀️

Edited to add: And this board tore into pretty much every relative who did show up, seeing attendance automatically as a sign of support for Josh's innocence. I don't blame someone for not wanting to wade into that anymore than I don't blame the ones who went because they genuinely wanted to hear the evidence for themselves. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Zella said:

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of, I probably wouldn't show up either. 🤷‍♀️

I might just to find out what really happened. But I’m thinking mothers here - hasn’t Josh always been Michelle’s favorite? I know my mom would show up even if I were a serial killer. Maybe not every day, but at least one day. And IMo there is no excuse for Anna’s own mom not being there. At least one of her sisters has money, and could have paid for her transportation to get there. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I might just to find out what really happened. But I’m thinking mothers here - hasn’t Josh always been Michelle’s favorite? I know my mom would show up even if I were a serial killer. Maybe not every day, but at least one day. And IMo there is no excuse for Anna’s own mom not being there. At least one of her sisters has money, and could have paid for her transportation to get there. 

Maybe I just have a weird family dynamic, but I wouldn't expect my family to show up and support me in that situation and would be kind of offended if they expected me to do so for them. So, I have a hard time judging the relatives who opted out. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Nysha]

16 minutes ago, Zella said:

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of and I believed he was guilty and his idiot wife kept supporting him through it, I probably wouldn't show up for him or her either. 🤷‍♀️

Except that his parents, at least, pretty much claimed he was innocent. JB did show up, but he was too much of a coward to do so in the beginning when he would have heard exactly what his favorite golden child pervert was downloading.

I think that Anna wouldn't want her family around unless they whole-heartedly agreed that Josh was totally innocent and being framed. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Nysha

[IndianPaintbrush]

The media attention had to have been a factor for some folks. It's valid not to want your photograph taken at a high-profile trial, and there are other ways to show support for Anna - such as babysitting her kids. 🙄

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Except that his parents, at least, pretty much claimed he was innocent. JB did show up, but he was too much of a coward to do so in the beginning when he would have heard exactly what his favorite golden child pervert was downloading.

Right as I said earlier, it was hypocritical. But I honestly think there are much worse things that Jim Bob and Michelle have done as a parent, and I feel like a lot of the relatives are in a damned if you do/damned if you don't position if they attended, regardless of how they feel about Josh's guilt or innocence. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

20 minutes ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

The media attention had to have been a factor for some folks. It's valid not to want your photograph taken at a high-profile trial, and there are other ways to show support for Anna - such as babysitting her kids. 🙄

I doubt Anna’s mother cares about that, but who knows?

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

"Did I mention i have cancer? That I'm adopted? Because I am."

[mynextmistake]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

Man, this week, we have messy bitches coming out of the woodworks, left and right. 😂

 

It’s like grand central station for messy bitches! 😂

[GeeGolly]

Regarding Cathy's post. Other than the one year at Walmart hasn't Derick been living off Jill? I know they grifted some funds and Derick did a short Grub Hub stint, but other than that its been TLC/JB.

The guy who once posted he's been working since age 5, the independent 32 year old son of Cathy, the father of two, hasn't had a full time job since his first child was born.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Regarding Cathy's post. Other than the one year at Walmart hasn't Derick been living off Jill? I know they grifted some funds and Derick did a short Grub Hub stint, but other than that its been TLC/JB.

The guy who once posted he's been working since age 5, the independent 32 year old son of Cathy, the father of two, hasn't had a full time job since his first child was born.

To me and my belief system, Derrick and Jill are married- they choose as adults to financially, emotionally, physically support each other. They are supposed to "live off of each other" according to their agreement to get married.

That is a very different thing than an abled bodied non disabled adult choosing to mooch off of the elders (parents, in laws, aunts/uncles, grandparents etc). If a married couple decides between them how to support themselves (one person work, one stay home etc etc) that is fine and living independently as a couple. Involving other people who did not choose to be in the marriage is a different kettle of fish.

But my belief system is way different than Cathy's, although she has worked outside of the home for wages in both her marriages.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

To me and my belief system, Derrick and Jill are married- they choose as adults to financially, emotionally, physically support each other. They are supposed to "live off of each other" according to their agreement to get married.

That is a very different thing than an abled bodied non disabled adult choosing to mooch off of the elders (parents, in laws, aunts/uncles, grandparents etc). If a married couple decides between them how to support themselves (one person work, one stay home etc etc) that is fine and living independently as a couple. Involving other people who did not choose to be in the marriage is a different kettle of fish.

But my belief system is way different than Cathy's, although she has worked outside of the home for wages in both her marriages.

I agree with you, but...

Cathy was bragging how independent her son is. IMO, its hardly a show of independence, to go from living off your mom, to living off your wife's prior earnings.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree with you, but...

Cathy was bragging how independent her son is. IMO, its hardly a show of independence, to go from living off your mom, to living off your wife's prior earnings.

No I understand what you are saying. 

 

[starfire]

Do you think JB and/or Michelle have visited Josh since he has been in jail? I wonder who will show up for the sentencing. It could be the last time they see him outside of prison for years.

Edited December 18, 2021 by starfire
Oops, wrong thread. Not sure how to delete.

[Cinnabon]

21 minutes ago, starfire said:

Do you think JB and/or Michelle have visited Josh since he has been in jail? I wonder who will show up for the sentencing. It could be the last time they see him outside of prison for years.

I doubt Meshelle has visited. Maybe JB but only to discuss lawyers and money, lol.

[madpsych78]

Going back to the "victim" thing, as I was the one who first brought it up:

Quote

victim

[ˈviktəm]

NOUN

a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

"victims of domestic violence" · 

[more]

synonyms:

sufferer · injured party · casualty · injured person · wounded person · dead person · fatality · loss · loser

a person who is tricked or duped.

"the victim of a hoax"

synonyms:

dupe · easy target · easy prey · fair game · sitting target · everybody's fool · stooge · gull · fool · Aunt Sally · target · prey · quarry · object · subject · recipient · focus

a living creature killed as a religious sacrifice.

"sacrificial victims for the ritual festivals"

synonyms:

sacrifice · offering · burnt offering · scapegoat

I think the bolded part is reasonable as it applies to Derick and Boob. At least in the beginning stages of their relationship. Someone had indicated that Derick was not a victim but also stated that he was lied to and yelled at by Jim Bob. The "yelling at" part may not be sufficient to classify as a victim, but the lying part, certainly. At least based on this definition above as well as the intention behind the lies.

Was Derick "harmed" in the same vein as Jill? Absolutely not. Was he on the receiving end of someone else's maladaptive behaviors aimed toward them? Absolutely. 

Derick (and Ben and Austin) appeared soft-spoken when they first appeared on the show, and probably willing to please, which probably made it easier to get into Boob's good graces, in a sense, as Boob probably sensed that they would be easier to persuade. Derick also had the additional aspect of having lost his father and seeking a father figure. Jeremy did NOT have that same personality, and so Boob was different with him.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, starfire said:

Do you think JB and/or Michelle have visited Josh since he has been in jail? I wonder who will show up for the sentencing. It could be the last time they see him outside of prison for years.

I expect they have since visiting is remote and they could do it from their own home (for a fee).  

[FizzyPuff]

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I doubt Meshelle has visited. Maybe JB but only to discuss lawyers and money, lol.

I can imagine JB screaming at his lawyers that they better do everything they can to get him out, whilst throwing loads of money at them. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, FizzyPuff said:

I can imagine JB screaming at his lawyers that they better do everything they can to get him out, whilst throwing loads of money at them. 

And ignoring being told there's nothing they can do.

[Rootbeer]

19 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I doubt Meshelle has visited. Maybe JB but only to discuss lawyers and money, lol.

Meechelle probably does virtual visits regularly.  She wouldn't have to leave the house. And, she can do them while heavily sedated which I expect is her baseline these days.  For some reason, I don't think JB discusses attorneys or fees at all with Josh.  It is Josh' life, but it is JB's show and I don't think he really wants Josh' opinion on anything at this point.

[iwantcookies]

Maybe they eat chick fil a while talking to Josh. Bet smuggar would love that. Smuggy is going to miss outside food more than anything else. 
 

 

[SMama]

9 hours ago, Rootbeer said:  For some reason, I don't think JB discusses attorneys or fees at all with Josh.  It is Josh' life, but it is JB's show and I don't think he really wants Josh' opinion on anything at this point.

IANAL but some that are have posted here that no matter who is paying the bills, lawyers only deal with the client. JB is not the all powerful person he has led many to believe he is. That was abundantly clear when the judge bitch slapped him in court, then gave him a second dose on the written opinion. 

[MsJamieDornan]

8 hours ago, SMama said:

JB is not the all powerful person he has led many to believe he is.

I totally agree with you but that doesn't stop him from shooting his mouth off.

[SMama]

7 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I totally agree with you but that doesn't stop him from shooting his mouth off.

Absolutely, but that does not equate JB in charge of the defense. 

[hathorlive]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:58 PM, GeeGolly said:

Holy shit. Derick's post. Holy fucking shit.

Oh Derrick.  I do believe there's a line about revenge being best served cold.  I like it!  I hope that he burns the house of JB down.

[Rootbeer]

54 minutes ago, SMama said:

Absolutely, but that does not equate JB in charge of the defense. 

JB isn't in charge of the defense itself, but I am sure he is in charge of PAYING FOR the defense.  I presume there will need to be a retainer for the appeal and it will be JB's decision as to whether that will happen.  I do not think Josh has any kind of money of his own for the legal fees; so, if JB doesn't pay for the appeal, it isn't going to be handled by Josh' original legal team.  I would expect Josh would need to rely on court appointed attorneys if JB decides not to pay for an appeal.

[SMama]

18 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Oh Derrick.  I do believe there's a line about revenge being best served cold.  I like it!  I hope that he burns the house of JB down.

Right now it’s being served almost frozen. In Duggar terms, I can’t wait to see what the Lord has in store for JB. 😂

[hathorlive]

On 12/15/2021 at 9:15 AM, merylinkid said:

Having worked in the anti-trafficking field, Derick's statement is probably spot on.   It's not forcing the kids to film the show and keeping the money.   It's ALL the manipulation and control.   Sure, you can have jobs, WHERE I SAY and while your life necessities may be taken care of, you will have no money to call your own.   No way to save up so you can escape.    Sure here's a house, on MY PROPERTY, you will move when I say, and you might not pay rent, but I expect labor out of you.   Which of course goes into my pocket to pay off your "debt."   

Exactly!  JB manipulates labor from the kids, collects the money and then pays the kids in company script, like coal mine owners.  The scrip, like coal mine money, is only redeemable in the shop of JB.  The value of your scrip is based on not your labor, but on how loyal you are to JB.  The more you suck up, the more currency your scrip is worth.  

To only equate human trafficking with sex workers is negating the women forced to sew clothes in factories and launder clothes in sweatshops.  Forced labor takes on many forms.

My hope is that now the drama and angst is over, Derrick can study for the bar (because I'm pretty sure he's not done much of anything than make sure his wife was okay the past year).  I hope he does go into practice and targets reality shows and labor law.  This country desperately needs a Coogan law for kids on reality shows.  I hope Derrick fights for the rights of kids and their privacy and failing that, control of money earned from their labor.

[SMama]

41 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

JB isn't in charge of the defense itself, but I am sure he is in charge of PAYING FOR the defense.  I presume there will need to be a retainer for the appeal and it will be JB's decision as to whether that will happen.  I do not think Josh has any kind of money of his own for the legal fees; so, if JB doesn't pay for the appeal, it isn't going to be handled by Josh' original legal team.  I would expect Josh would need to rely on court appointed attorneys if JB decides not to pay for an appeal.

Poor pedophile Volderjosh. First, a guilty verdict, soon, the possibility of further public humiliation in the form of a court appointed public defender. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.  😀

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, SMama said:

IANAL but some that are have posted here that no matter who is paying the bills, lawyers only deal with the client. JB is not the all powerful person he has led many to believe he is. That was abundantly clear when the judge bitch slapped him in court, then gave him a second dose on the written opinion. 

How I wish we got to see that moment. JB who certainly thinks he's all powerful smacked down by a judge. 

[BigBingerBro]

[Absolom]

Now what's up?  Or is he referring to Jim Bob's selective memory?