Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[awaken]

I can't imagine being enamored with myself enough to post the link to my full wedding video for random people to watch, 7 years later, and really thinking people will want to see it.  Or, posting an entire video of my regular, boring, everyday life of studying, work, exercise, and household responsibilities.  Or an average dinner with potatoes.  

[emmawoodhouse]

So, he doesn't really study, yet still can't get a full night's sleep?

1 minute ago, awaken said:

I can't imagine being enamored with myself enough to post the link to my full wedding video for random people to watch, 7 years later, and really thinking people will want to see it.  Or, posting an entire video of my regular, boring, everyday life of studying, work, exercise, and household responsibilities.  Or an average dinner with potatoes.  

She still has 2M followers. So finds this stuff interesting. I was mildly curious about how Derelict spends his days. I wish he would have taken us on a GrubHub run. 😁

[madpsych78]

This was not a Day in the Life of a Law Student. This was a Day in the Life of the Dillards. The only difference was that this was more a Derick-centric video than the typical Jill-centric videos. 

[GeeGolly]

IMO, 9 o'clock is late for young kids. My kids went to bed around 7:30 while they were in elementary school. They were probably in high school before they saw 9pm on a school night. What were the boys doing after dinner?

[Lisa418722]

4 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

This was not a Day in the Life of a Law Student. This was a Day in the Life of the Dillards. The only difference was that this was more a Derick-centric video than the typical Jill-centric videos. 

I wonder how much studying Derick really is doing for the bar.  I had a friend who took the bar in California and her employer gave her the month off with pay to study.  Derick seems like he is still living his regular life.  I know he can't ignore his family entirely while he's studying but....  I'm sure he will pass (and I hope he does), but if he doesn't I wonder what his next endeavor will be.  

[GeeGolly]

I hope Derick isn't too cocky about his ability to pass the bar. Similar to most states, Arkansas has a 70% pass rate. The first try pass rate for an LICSW isn't too different than the bar. I've been in the field for a long time, and watched a lot of cocky folks fail on the first try. I've also seen a lot of folks who studied hard fail, but not taking it seriously is a sure fire way to fail.

I know the video was in April while Derick was still in school, but if he has a job now he'll have much less time to hit the books. 

[BigBingerBro]

[Zella]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

IMO, 9 o'clock is late for young kids. My kids went to bed around 7:30 while they were in elementary school. They were probably in high school before they saw 9pm on a school night. What were the boys doing after dinner?

I also thought 9 seemed unusually late for kids that age. Even when I was a little older than Jill's kids, my bedtime was still about 7/7:30. I never could fall asleep that early, even as a six year old, but I was tucked in then regardless. 

[leighdear]

I hope Deertick flames out spectacularly and fails the bar. 

He failed at holding a job with Walmart, he failed at being a pseudo-missionary and he failed at being whatever kind of pastor-type person he spent all that money on trying to be.  

FAIL is his middle name.  And it fits him like a glove.  

[Westiepeach]

14 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I hope Deertick flames out spectacularly and fails the bar. 

He failed at holding a job with Walmart, he failed at being a pseudo-missionary and he failed at being whatever kind of pastor-type person he spent all that money on trying to be.  

FAIL is his middle name.  And it fits him like a glove.  

I don't wish failure on him. He certainly has shown us he is avid about what is right in front of him until he sees something shiny and his interests change. But I think unless he really buckles down and studies his ass off, he won't be prepared enough to pass the bar. It's all on his shoulders.

[lascuba]

14 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I hope Deertick flames out spectacularly and fails the bar. 

He failed at holding a job with Walmart, he failed at being a pseudo-missionary and he failed at being whatever kind of pastor-type person he spent all that money on trying to be.  

FAIL is his middle name.  And it fits him like a glove.  

I wouldn't be at all sad for him if he failed, but I think he'll pass. Derick strikes me as the type who is good at school and a good test taker, but flails when the reality of his current dream job doesn't live up to the fantasy in his head. If in 5 years, he's not in front of the Supreme Court to abolish abortion or LGBTQA+ rights, he just might quit law, too.

[Absolom]

My daughter and her husband are lawyers.  It isn't as much how long you study as how you study and what you need to concentrate on.  It's also how the bar is graded strategy.  There is a little known facet to the California bar that my daughter learned about in the prep class.  What she was told to do was counterintuitive, but worked like a charm.  If Derick is putting in six hours a day directed where he really needs it, he should be fine.  OTH, he does seem to be approaching it a bit like daughter's husband who needed a second round at it using my daughter's notes.

[BigBingerBro]

Have they said when he's taking the bar?  I'm assuming it's being kept under wraps in case he fails....

[Rootbeer]

11 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Have they said when he's taking the bar?  I'm assuming it's being kept under wraps in case he fails....

They've told us he's taking it this summer and the next Arkansas Bar Exam is July 27-28

[Minivanessa]

20 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Have they said when he's taking the bar?  I'm assuming it's being kept under wraps in case he fails....

It's not a secret. It's a public event. [ETA, in the sense that its date and location are public information, not that anybody can attend.] I think most states administer the bar examination twice a year. The Arkansas judiciary website says:

Quote

The deadline for filing for the July 2021 Arkansas Bar Exam was Thursday, April 1, 2021.  The Exam will be administered on July 27 and 28, 2021 at the Robinson Convention Center in Little Rock, Arkansas.

AFAIK, Arkansas releases the names of those who pass each bar exam once they are all graded. Most if not all states do. That's how the world knew that JFK Jr. took two or three tries to pass the NY bar exam.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Jeeves

[Lisa418722]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

I wouldn't be at all sad for him if he failed, but I think he'll pass. Derick strikes me as the type who is good at school and a good test taker, but flails when the reality of his current dream job doesn't live up to the fantasy in his head. If in 5 years, he's not in front of the Supreme Court to abolish abortion or LGBTQA+ rights, he just might quit law, too.

I think he will pass. Then when he realizes he is going to be expected to meet billable hours and he might have to stay late to get his work done, he will probably get bored and decided to go back to school to do… who knows what.  
As a paralegal I will say I would hate to be his paralegal or his legal assistant, especially someone with years of experience.  They can help newbie attorneys, but too often attorneys come in acting like they know everything because they've been to law school and passed the bar, but there are still things that they need to learn and your staff can help (or hurt).  

Edited June 24, 2021 by Lisa418722

[Gemma Violet]

4 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I don't wish failure on him. 

Neither do I---I hope he passes.  Many of us were doubtful he'd stick it out, but he put forth the commitment for the entire three years.  Good for him.  

[Rabbittron]

I wonder if he passes the bar will Blob play nice with the family so he can get rid of the high priced lawyers and have Derick represent Smuggar?

[Zella]

I don't think trading an attorney who specializes in federal cases and has federal experience for a newly minted lawyer is a very wise move, regardless of the money saved. 

[crazy8s]

what incentive would derick have to defend the perv who molested his wife when she was a child?

derick and jill got what money they could and they will not see another dime from JB

[cereality]

As a lawyer myself, I clicked on the day in the life of a law student video thinking I could "re live" what that part of my life was like. Uh except it wasn't like that at all. How did he not fail out of law school? I only watched until 3 pm bc it was mind numbingly boring.

But they get up at 6 am and from 6 am until 3 pm -- 9 hours -- I counted 2.5 hrs of studying MAX. And this is DURING FINALS when people study NON STOP. Even people who otherwise dick around (which you can't in law school as much as college) get it together and study 8-12 hrs a day at minimum. I mean he studied for 1.5 hrs max in the morning before leaving for his chiropractor. I discounted at least 20 min of that studying bc he had Jill in there eating breakfast and a 2 yr old running in and out and talking. This isn't college -- you're not going to understand caselaw if you're running a side conversation. Then he comes back and it's like aha he'll settle down at 1145 and study for the rest of the afternoon. Nope -- sits down for  seconds but then DOG and then microwave lasagna and then Sam is asleep so time to study in the family room which Jill practically sitting on top of him massaging him (WTF?!) and then oh look 30 min of that and Sam is awake. Stopped watching there when he was like time to get Israel, family walk blah blah.

If this is how he's studying for the bar, good luck. The bar is a memorization + reasoning test so it doesn't matter how smart you are, you need to do the work (and while I think Derick is fine, I don't think he's a genius). I.E. in order to do the reasoning part of every question you have to first remember some picky fact without which you won't even know what legal reasoning they're asking for.

He needs to barricade himself in that office (or go to the library - IDK if they're covid conscious or just living normal life) and sit there for 8+ hrs a day esp now in July. Even people who goof off with bar prep in May/June all say if you don't buckle down from July 4 to July 25 (or whenever the exact date is this yr - it's usually late July 25-29), you are really risking passing. And if you have a job offer lined up and you don't pass, kiss that offer goodbye. And if you don't have an offer + don't pass, good luck finding a job, no one is going to talk to you.

Edited June 25, 2021 by cereality

[Absolom]

Oh boy.  It does sound like Derick is studying like my now SIL was and he missed passing by a few points and was mad at himself.  It was his own mother disturbing him!  Then she had the nerve to ask him why he didn't do better.  Second round he went to my daughter's apartment while she was at work and used her notes and material and had no distractions and passed.  Derick may find he needs a different plan.  He was going to the library quite a bit before the pandemic.  

[emmawoodhouse]

This video was made during finals, not Bar study. Jill seems to be on her own during the day in her SM pics, so I assume Derelict is either working or studying now. He definitely said he plans to take the Bar in July.

Edited June 25, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[cereality]

I know it was "only" finals but people take law school finals seriously. It's not college (in certain majors) where it's like haha I can goof off and then pull an all nighter the night before and pull it off or just wing it. Every final exam prompt/question you're given in law school requires pages and pages of analysis to solve the problem they've presented to you, you can't just trick the professor by saying a few of the right vocab words.

Maybe he's doing better with bar studying, but if his finals studying is any indication -- I'd be worried if I were Jill (though she has no clue why she'd worry, her man is a genius compared to anyone she's ever met in life or in her own fam).

As @Absolom says people DO fail by being way to close to the margins -- i.e. they go into the last section of the 2 day exam on the cusp of passing or failing and then blow the last question. Ideally you want to do so well on the first part/first day of the exam that by day 2 you are feeling zero pressure (impossible - but as close to 0 as possible) bc you know that if you just 20-50% right on day 2, you've still passed. At least that was my strategy.

I realize he has a family - it's different than my situation when I was 25 and could study from 9 am to midnight every day with no obligations to anyone but me. But reality is the few family people in my law school class treated both law school (esp finals) AND esp the bar like a job -- i.e. start at 8 am study until 5 pm -- no interruptions/breaks except a quick brown bag/microwaved lunch -- and then usually another few hrs from say 9 pm-11 pm after their kids were in bed. It's not like Derick with him having his 3 yr old talking in his office; Jill sitting there eating breakfast staring at him and chatting; then him running out to feed and train the dog; then taking out the trash; then sitting on the floor and "studying" and watching lectures with Jill massaging his head; then running out to pick up kids or take a family walk or whatever.

Reality is I hope that at this late stage with exactly 1 mo before the bar -- he has clarified to Jill and Jill realizes he can do NOTHING all day but be locked in his office with no wife or kids coming in and out. She needs to feed the dog, run the errands, entertain the kids, entertain herself etc. without expect him to join in for 15 min here and 30 min there, which as the video showed ate up most of the day.

And if they can't make that work, well put on a mask (though I doubt Duggars do that) and go hole up in the library 40-50 hrs a wk like it's your job. Or if you're being covid conscious (IDK if they're that type), rent yourself a private office suite and go sit there (commercial real estate is dirt cheap right now with the whole work from home thing) or go find a coffee shop with an outdoor patio that won't care if you sit there 8 hrs a day as long as you buy 2 coffees/day or something.

[Cinnabon]

I’m sure they still have mortgage, utility, and other expenses so Derrick probably is working right now as well as studying. We know Jill isn’t bringing in much income.

[cereality]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

I’m sure they still have mortgage, utility, and other expenses so Derrick probably is working right now as well as studying. We know Jill isn’t bringing in much income.

Maybe maybe not. People who take loans for law school, extend them for 2 extra months for bar studying and then start work in Aug. Even if you have no loans, there lines of loans offered from May-July to law grads so you can study full time. The big prestigious law firms all give you a sizeable salary advance (can’t recall exactly but about 15 yrs ago I think it was about $7000/mo) so you can study full time. This is a do or die thing where you’re expected not to work and study full time because a few thousand in grub hub income for 2 mos isn’t worth your career never launching  bc you failed the bar and are now damaged goods.

How did they support themselves thru law school - who paid the mortgage and utilities then? He should prob just continue whatever he was doing then for $ for 2 more months.

Now granted I’m sure some people do study + work - I didn’t go to that type of school. But then you STILL have to study 40ish hrs/wk - so that’s 2 10 hr days on the weekend + get home at 5 and study from 5-11 pm daily on weeknights. I don’t see him or Jilly being capable of that AT ALL. It’d be a constant omg but my wife, my boys, who can live like this for 10 whole weeks?! So the weeknight studying would be w Jill getting her physical touch in laying in his lap or something.

Edited June 25, 2021 by cereality

[GeeGolly]

I don't know what the exam questions are like for the bar, but what makes the LICSW exam difficult is they're looking for a broad range of knowledge. Many of the questions are scenarios are looking to see what interventions should be used, so if you're weak in human development and/or theories, you're screwed. Also in therapy we have what's called stages of intervention, meaning there's certain times intervention should or should not be used and if you don't know that, you're answer will likely be wrong. There's also the DSM and all the diagnoses you need to be familiar with. And lastly SW is huge on ethics and include many ethical questions on the exam. I'm sure there is much more on the exam I'm forgetting about, because it was so long ago, and its one of those things like childbirth, your mind changes your memory to save you from the trauma, lol.

I'm assuming the bar also covers a broad range knowledge because, to me anyway, the field of law seems to be endless. I hope Derick is studying because after putting in all that work getting a second degree, it would be a shame for him not to pass the bar. Its too bad that Jill has such little knowledge of education and can't truly appreciate what Derick has ahead of him. She probably thinks he's just taking a test.

[BigBingerBro]

[On the Bias]

I think that @cereality and @GeeGolly have explained it really well.  The questions on the bar exam aren’t difficult in themselves — they’re not tricky, there’s nothing hidden — but they require a great breadth of knowledge, they require a fair depth of knowledge, and the consequences of failure are catastrophic.  

 

I hold no brief for Derick, and I don’t know how difficult the Arkansas bar exam is (I’m barred in California), but for his own sake that of his family, whose tiny steps out of the suffocating TTH cult I’m happy to see, I hope he’s buckling down. 

[GeeGolly]

Hmmm, a local real estate agent comped the Dillard's tickets. I wonder why?

[lascuba]

11 hours ago, cereality said:

As a lawyer myself, I clicked on the day in the life of a law student video thinking I could "re live" what that part of my life was like. Uh except it wasn't like that at all. How did he not fail out of law school? I only watched until 3 pm bc it was mind numbingly boring.

But they get up at 6 am and from 6 am until 3 pm -- 9 hours -- I counted 2.5 hrs of studying MAX. And this is DURING FINALS when people study NON STOP. Even people who otherwise dick around (which you can't in law school as much as college) get it together and study 8-12 hrs a day at minimum. I mean he studied for 1.5 hrs max in the morning before leaving for his chiropractor. I discounted at least 20 min of that studying bc he had Jill in there eating breakfast and a 2 yr old running in and out and talking. This isn't college -- you're not going to understand caselaw if you're running a side conversation. Then he comes back and it's like aha he'll settle down at 1145 and study for the rest of the afternoon. Nope -- sits down for  seconds but then DOG and then microwave lasagna and then Sam is asleep so time to study in the family room which Jill practically sitting on top of him massaging him (WTF?!) and then oh look 30 min of that and Sam is awake. Stopped watching there when he was like time to get Israel, family walk blah blah.

If this is how he's studying for the bar, good luck. The bar is a memorization + reasoning test so it doesn't matter how smart you are, you need to do the work (and while I think Derick is fine, I don't think he's a genius). I.E. in order to do the reasoning part of every question you have to first remember some picky fact without which you won't even know what legal reasoning they're asking for.

He needs to barricade himself in that office (or go to the library - IDK if they're covid conscious or just living normal life) and sit there for 8+ hrs a day esp now in July. Even people who goof off with bar prep in May/June all say if you don't buckle down from July 4 to July 25 (or whenever the exact date is this yr - it's usually late July 25-29), you are really risking passing. And if you have a job offer lined up and you don't pass, kiss that offer goodbye. And if you don't have an offer + don't pass, good luck finding a job, no one is going to talk to you.

Not to give Derick ANY credit WHATSOEVER, but I wouldn't take any videos they post as indicative of how much he's studying. The whole point of such videos is to keep followers interested. Derick and Jill are going for the family/lifestyle blog vibe, a day-in-the-life video showing the reality of law student life isn't going to fly, because a regular day in the life of most people makes for boring TV. They have to show the dog, the kids, the family time, etc. because that's their "brand."

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Not to give Derick ANY credit WHATSOEVER, but I wouldn't take any videos they post as indicative of how much he's studying. The whole point of such videos is to keep followers interested. Derick and Jill are going for the family/lifestyle blog vibe, a day-in-the-life video showing the reality of law student life isn't going to fly, because a regular day in the life of most people makes for boring TV. They have to show the dog, the kids, the family time, etc. because that's their "brand."

I agree with this. I don't know Derick's class ranking when he graduated, but he seemed to handle law school pretty well. Before the pandemic he had summer internships, and IIRC he had some sort of promotional deal with the bar review course company. I'd be surprised if he hasn't been studying for the bar exam. He's probably had the benefit of the bar review company's coaching on how/what to study. Yep. IMO what he really does vs. what Jill puts out on SM, are not necessarily the same.

[Suzn]

11 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I agree with this. I don't know Derick's class ranking when he graduated, but he seemed to handle law school pretty well. Before the pandemic he had summer internships, and IIRC he had some sort of promotional deal with the bar review course company. I'd be surprised if he hasn't been studying for the bar exam. He's probably had the benefit of the bar review company's coaching on how/what to study. Yep. IMO what he really does vs. what Jill puts out on SM, are not necessarily the same.

I hope that is right, that the video is not representative of the amount time Derick is studying.  I gave into morbid curiosity and watched (skimmed and muted) his day-in-the-life.  So little sustained uninterrupted, undistracted time spent studying.  Jill was ridiculous hanging on him like a leech - she has no concept of focused study.

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I hope that is right, that the video is not representative of the amount time Derick is studying.  I gave into morbid curiosity and watched (skimmed and muted) his day-in-the-life.  So little sustained uninterrupted, undistracted time spent studying.  Jill was ridiculous hanging on him like a leech - she has no concept of focused study.

I don't think any of the Duggars really know what it means to "work" and "study." Their lives had no formal schooling and also no "work" in the traditional sense. I hope Derick has a library at the school he can go to for studying.

With that being said, I've known law students with different ways to study for the bar. Some do a very focused study for short bursts. 

[JoanArc]

15 hours ago, cereality said:

But they get up at 6 am

  They do this on a regular basis.  This is light-years from where Jill started and really amazing on its own.

 That said, Durwood does not get a special gold star for waking up when everyone else wakes up 

[Minivanessa]

56 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I don't think any of the Duggars really know what it means to "work" and "study." Their lives had no formal schooling and also no "work" in the traditional sense. I hope Derick has a library at the school he can go to for studying.

With that being said, I've known law students with different ways to study for the bar. Some do a very focused study for short bursts. 

I took the bar exam (actually I took one state's bar exam in July, then moved to another state and took that state's bar exam in February) - 40+ years ago.  Having passed my first bar exam, I focused in studying for the next on what I *didn't* know - to fill gaps in my knowledge/memory. The bar review course gave us periodic tests on the most recently covered material. I decided not to study for those tests, and to use them to discover what I needed to work on. They were just practice exams and didn't count for anything. Late in the course I was called down to the office of the nice man who ran the bar review course. He showed me my poor scores on the course tests and the stats that associated such poor scores with failing the bar exam. I thanked him for his concern, and didn't bother to explain.

In the meantime, one member of my study group was devoting his life to studying for the bar exam. He also  crammed like crazy for each of the interim tests during the review course and did fine on them. He failed the bar exam. I passed it.

This is just to emphasize - as others have said - that we don't know how much time Derick is spending (and has spent) studying for the bar exam, nor how much coaching he's had on how and what to emphasize during this study/preparation for the exam. He could be studying a lot or a little, in a poorly focused way or a well-planned way. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Jeeves

[Lady Whistleup]

I don't get up at 6 am lol. I always think sleep is God's gift and if I can make it to work by getting up at 6:30 you best believe I don't wake up a minute before 6:30.

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I don't get up at 6 am lol. I always think sleep is God's gift and if I can make it to work by getting up at 6:30 you best believe I don't wake up a minute before 6:30.

Lol.  I am the type of person that can get up without an alarm clock assuming I have something to do that day. Otherwise I tend to sleep to whenever I want.

I just meant consistently waking up in the morning more than a specific time.

 I really wonder what is going to happen once Samuel starts going to school. Derreck should be working in an office by then, maybe with longer hours. Jill will truly have some time to herself again. At least a few hours a day. She could work a job, take some classes and go to school, or become a volunteer. Or, she could wind up being a dependent mess and having lunch with Derigible every single day. Will be interesting to see where it goes

[Lady Whistleup]

13 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Lol.  I am the type of person that can get up without an alarm clock assuming I have something to do that day. Otherwise I tend to sleep to whenever I want.

I just meant consistently waking up in the morning more than a specific time.

 I really wonder what is going to happen once Samuel starts going to school. Derreck should be working in an office by then, maybe with longer hours. Jill will truly have some time to herself again. At least a few hours a day. She could work a job, take some classes and go to school, or become a volunteer. Or, she could wind up being a dependent mess and having lunch with Derigible every single day. Will be interesting to see where it goes

Sometimes I think the gardening projects and the dog and the "modeling" for Cousin Amy is Derick's way of eventually preparing Jill for the day he's not home from 9-6 and the kids will be in school. I think Jill can probably be very clingy and overbearing and it's a lot for anyone to handle.

[Suzn]

26 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Lol.  I am the type of person that can get up without an alarm clock assuming I have something to do that day. Otherwise I tend to sleep to whenever I want.

I just meant consistently waking up in the morning more than a specific time.

 I really wonder what is going to happen once Samuel starts going to school. Derreck should be working in an office by then, maybe with longer hours. Jill will truly have some time to herself again. At least a few hours a day. She could work a job, take some classes and go to school, or become a volunteer. Or, she could wind up being a dependent mess and having lunch with Derigible every single day. Will be interesting to see where it goes

She's shown no indication that she has plans to do anything out of the house by herself.  She could fill the time with full time housewife type things, but she's shown little interest in anything beyond minimal cooking, gardening, etc.

ETA - She could take up arts and crafts but her decorating efforts don't point to much talent or skills either.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Suzn

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Suzn said:

She's shown no indication that she has plans to do anything out of the house by herself.  She could fill the time with full time housewife type things, but she shown little interest in anything beyond minimal cooking, gardening, etc.

None of the J'slaves are any good at the "homemaking" stuff even though that's what they've trained to be their whole lives. Jill's house at least looks neat and clean unlike Jessa's sty. Maybe Jana has some talent for the embroidery/needlework/interior decorating stuff.

[cereality]

I was actually surprised by how clingy Jill STILL is. They've been married 7 years now. In that time he's been at Walmart for a year (or 6 mos?) + law school for 3 years. You'd think 3.5-4 yrs would give her enough time to get used to occupying herself 40 hours a week, esp with 2 young kids. I mean I know they've left (I think - IDK - I don't follow them as much anymore) the cult and are wanting to live a different life with only 2 kids that they actually raise, live independent of her family, have a more normal job etc. Yet she was still raised in that cult. They are raised to be wives and mothers. So why can't she occupy herself 40 hours/wk raising the kids -- drop them off at school, pick them up, do hw with them, cook for them, play with them etc.?? She acts like she's child less and bored or has grown adult kids and is bored!?

I mean when she married at 22 and she was showing up to have lunch with him daily at work it was like ok this is weird but she has legit never known a man who is obligated to be someplace else from 8-5 and she freaked out with that much time at home.

And then when he went to law school she was 27ish and I hear she used to sit in on some classes sometimes. While ludicrous it was still like ok she's NEVER been in any major university class on any subject and was raised in a cult where all in school education = you sit in a building 40 hours a week and they tell you God isn't real or whatever. So ok maybe it was useful for her to sit in on a contracts class and be like - this is boring as hell they are talking about what X guy said he'd pay for a tractor and then Y manufactured the tractor and X then said nah I don't want to buy it and Y couldn't sell it to anyone else, what does X owe. 

But it's been YEARS now between school + Walmart. Can she REALLY still not occupy her time? Doesn't look like it. I mean she survived when Derick was in class or in the library but it seems like the moment he walks in the door, she clings to him like a leech. I mean sitting in the same room isn't enough -- needs to sit right directly behind him and massage his head and shoulders when he studies bc her love language is touch!?

[Lady Whistleup]

22 minutes ago, cereality said:

But it's been YEARS now between school + Walmart. Can she REALLY still not occupy her time? Doesn't look like it. I mean she survived when Derick was in class or in the library but it seems like the moment he walks in the door, she clings to him like a leech. I mean sitting in the same room isn't enough -- needs to sit right directly behind him and massage his head and shoulders when he studies bc her love language is touch!?

Clinginess is more a personality trait. I don't think Jessa and Joy are particularly clingy. Jinger definitely is and so is Jill.

Also, clinginess tends to be a cycle. A clingy person overwhelms someone (i.e. Derick) so that overwhelmed person needs space. The clingy person senses the distance and becomes even more clingy. 

[Suzn]

26 minutes ago, cereality said:

I was actually surprised by how clingy Jill STILL is. They've been married 7 years now. In that time he's been at Walmart for a year (or 6 mos?) + law school for 3 years. You'd think 3.5-4 yrs would give her enough time to get used to occupying herself 40 hours a week, esp with 2 young kids. I mean I know they've left (I think - IDK - I don't follow them as much anymore) the cult and are wanting to live a different life with only 2 kids that they actually raise, live independent of her family, have a more normal job etc. Yet she was still raised in that cult. They are raised to be wives and mothers. So why can't she occupy herself 40 hours/wk raising the kids -- drop them off at school, pick them up, do hw with them, cook for them, play with them etc.?? She acts like she's child less and bored or has grown adult kids and is bored!?

I mean when she married at 22 and she was showing up to have lunch with him daily at work it was like ok this is weird but she has legit never known a man who is obligated to be someplace else from 8-5 and she freaked out with that much time at home.

And then when he went to law school she was 27ish and I hear she used to sit in on some classes sometimes. While ludicrous it was still like ok she's NEVER been in any major university class on any subject and was raised in a cult where all in school education = you sit in a building 40 hours a week and they tell you God isn't real or whatever. So ok maybe it was useful for her to sit in on a contracts class and be like - this is boring as hell they are talking about what X guy said he'd pay for a tractor and then Y manufactured the tractor and X then said nah I don't want to buy it and Y couldn't sell it to anyone else, what does X owe. 

But it's been YEARS now between school + Walmart. Can she REALLY still not occupy her time? Doesn't look like it. I mean she survived when Derick was in class or in the library but it seems like the moment he walks in the door, she clings to him like a leech. I mean sitting in the same room isn't enough -- needs to sit right directly behind him and massage his head and shoulders when he studies bc her love language is touch!?

That was absolutely sickening.  I can't imagine how he can concentrate on anything while she latches on to him and actually how he can stand it.

[MargeGunderson]

I assume the clinginess at least for Jill is from her upbringing. I doubt those kids had any time alone other than when using the bathroom. Between the sheer number of them and the whole accountability partner thing they were always with others. Being alone is a negative thing for them, because apparently bad things happen when you are alone (or just with one other person). 

Edited June 25, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Suzn said:

That was absolutely sickening.  I can't imagine how he can concentrate on anything while she latches on to him and actually how he can stand it.

I think he's like "hey I heard Cousin Amy has 100 prairie dresses at the store. You might want to try them on?"

[BitterApple]

36 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Clinginess is more a personality trait. I don't think Jessa and Joy are particularly clingy. Jinger definitely is and so is Jill.

Also, clinginess tends to be a cycle. A clingy person overwhelms someone (i.e. Derick) so that overwhelmed person needs space. The clingy person senses the distance and becomes even more clingy. 

I agree. It definitely seems to be a Jill thing rather than a Duggar/Fundie thing. None of the other married girls appear to smother their spouses the way she does.

[GeeGolly]

I get the impression Derick enjoys and encourages Jill's clinginess. In an ego sort of way.

[Madtown]

I always have this little glimmer of hope that when both boys are in school, Jill would volunteer somewhere. Even get a small part time job. Not at the school either, away from the boys and on her own somewhere. I feel she needs to get out of that house. I don't know her, maybe she seems to really like being at home with the boys. She just seems overwhelmed a lot. Not as much as she once was, but still a little.

With her clinginess with Derick. If he passes the bar and works in a law firm, I would hope she wouldn't go there to see him all the time or even worse, work or volunteer there. I would like to see Jill step out on her own. I think eventually she would really enjoy it. If it ever comes down to that, I hope Derick would encourage her.

On a side note...
Seeing the pictures of them at the baseball game, once again made me so sad for Spurgeon. Poor guy is playing with an ant that is crawling on him, memorizing Bible versus(not saying Sam and Izzy don't, just don't see it posted)and playing in a box in an over crowded house.

[CountryGirl]

None of us know for certain how much time he's devoting to studying for the bar.

Having passed two state bars and the federal bar, all while working a full-time job because I had to eat and keep a roof over my head, I can say that, for me, studying for the bar, was decidedly not my life. I studied 4-6 hours at the maximum, but not necessarily every day. It was about quality of studying, not quantity. I know many, many folks, a good friend included, who made every waking moment of their lives about studying and studying and more studying. Only a few of them passed on their first round, most of the others took at least another attempt, and a few others never passed. The point of this is to say (probably obvious) that everyone is different and studying for the bar (or lawschool exams) isn't one size fits all. Ironically, I did better on the lawschool exams I spent the fewest hours studying for - partly, I think because I took the pressure off of myself and that made the difference.